DCS: Mi-24P | by the book | running landing
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- Short video about the correct technique for a running landing in the Mi-24P. All according to the manual. Some questions and answers below:
Q. So - why are running landings done in the first place?
A. It requires less engine power. Especially when the helicopter is at it's maximum operating weight and there's high air temperature or the airfield is situated at high altitude - you might not be able to execute a vertical landing out of a hover. The approach can be flown as part of an instrument procedure, a straight in visual or from a traffic pattern.
Q. What are the main points of this approach again?
A.
1. Starting at 1000m distance / 100m height / 80kph.
2. Descend at 80kph / with about 2m/s / Maximum allowed 3m/s!
3. At 50m lower landing gear and begin speed reduction.
4. At 3-5m reduce vertical speed to 0,5m/s.
5. Touchdown at 40-50kph.
6. Lower collective to 6-8° / deflect cyclic 1/3 aft / use wheel brake.
7. Once stopped, center cyclic / lower collective.
Q. Why are there no control indicators in the video?
A. In about 99% of the video the control inputs are so small that you would not even notice any movement on the indicator. So, for the immersion I prefer to keep it off.
Q. How do I set myself up correctly for the approach?
A. Set the airfield QFE on your altimeter, so that it indicates 0 when you have landed. Set the approach course on the gyro compass. On the map, find a feature that helps you to estimate 1000m from the threshold. Set 50m height on the radio altimeter as a reminder for the landing gear. Confirm / set main rotor to 95% RPM. Confirm the SPUU-52 tail rotor pitch limiter is on and operating. When outside air temperature is above 15°C, switch the air conditioning off to safe engine power. When operating on a dusty airfield, switch on the dust particle separator system. Maximum tail and crosswind is 10m/s.
Q. Why is the approach flown at such a low airspeed?
A. There are indeed more energetic approach procedures available - but they are also much more difficult to fly, as they require significant deceleration during the descend, while maintaining a maximum of 3m/s vertical speed. That requires a nose high attitude and gives you a bad visibility of the landing spot. This - low airspeed - type of approach gives you better visibility and great controllability because things happen at a slower pace. It's really meant to be used for a "return to base" type landing in a low threat environment. And it's a great approach to start with - although flying it by the book is difficult enough!
Q. Why is the landing gear lowered this late?
A. Flying an instrument approach or a traffic pattern, it's usually done earlier. For a straight in approach the manual states: 50m height.
Q. Why do I not lower the collective right after touchdown and pull full aft cyclic for braking?
A. This is forbidden by manual, because you are risking to hit the tailboom with the main rotor. The correct procedure is to maintain 6-8° of collective pitch, deflect the cyclic 1/3rd aft and use the wheel brake.
Q. Why even bother flying "by the numbers"? I fly be the visual picture and my feeling!
A. Real life pilots learn to fly by the numbers. The basis is precise hand-flying. Keeping those needles steady. Maintaining altitude, airspeed and heading in straight and level flight. That's where it all starts. Now, if you progress to more complex maneuvers, like a rolling landing, you need a way to describe those. Geometry or math / numbers are the only way to do that in a professional manner. This way they can be talked through and replicated. Real world pilots generally practice things again and again until muscle memory and experience grows. At some point, they will not have to rely on numbers so much anymore - but they will fly more by visual picture and feeling. Yet, their focus will be on maintaining some important numbers "in the green".
Q. Which manual is this procedure based on?
A. It's based on the "Mi-24P helicopter crew instruction book 1" in Russian language. I can not share the file, but you will find it, if you search for "Ми-24П Инструкция экипажу". I recommend yandex.ru for searching Russian documents.
More questions? Write a comment!
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I held off buying this module for a long time, was not all that interested, I was bored waiting for the Apache the other day so I tried it on the trial offering from ED, and enjoyed so much I bought it. It is quite special actually.
Nicely done! Quick and to the point.
These are absolutely awesome.... thanks for your efforts to bring such quality content.
You should do more videos, there is no much other helicopter channels like yours
Nice. Thanks for sharing.
They see me rollin'
They hatin'
Patrolling and tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty
In all seriousness, great video, keep em coming.
I really love these videos! I find really difficult to find flight manual of this helicopter so your videos are highly appreciated. Thanks!!
Great tutorial thank you
I know there are altitude and speed combinations which are dangerous. Apparently it's safe to hover at either high altitude or low altitude but there's an altitude range where it's not safe to hover. Does a rolling landing reduce the how close the flight envelope comes to these dangerous combinations?
Thanks for the video and thanks for the Q&A. I had a variation of question #7 cross my mind while watching the video.
I'm working on making a VTOL radio controlled quadplane. Your video made me wonder if a rolling landing could be used to extend the flight time of the aircraft a bit.
Thanks again for the video. I enjoyed it.
Hi Duane. The hovering envelope is something you think about when you actually plan to hover. In this case, there is no hover. To answer the second question: Yes, you will need less power with a running landing and therefor consume less fuel. So, yes, a running landing will give you more range. For the Mi-24 I'd say it's insignificant though.
Loved the Q&A, the best I've seen on the subject. I disagree on the Indicators window, I believe that its presence helps to understand how you control the aircraft. I'm amazed on the control smoothness demonstradted on the video, do you use a Stick extension? Glad to be subscribed already to your Channel, looking forward to more videos about the Hind, and thanks a lot for this one 🙂 👍
Thank you for the kind feedback! I am using original Mi-8 / Mi-24 cyclic, collective and rudder pedals with a DIY damper mechanism. So that does make it easier - but it also takes some practice and intense scanning of the instruments to get it right.
Before cutting the video I watched the track with the control indicator on. There was really no visible movement (probably due to the large lever of my cyclic) apart from a few moments during rollout. :)
😍😍😍
Very nice!:-)
Thank you!
Appreciate the work on the video.
Still I have some things to add : I have no experience on Mil yet but while I know Russians loves to number everything, I doubt they give collective pitch values or similar, as so many factors are in play. Generally we aim, like in fixed wings, some glide path angles or gradients values, then accomodate parameters to match it.
Also, no wheels helicopters I know suggests applying back cyclic to reduce speed once and the ground, it's the best way to have a tail boom strike. Well, maybe not on the Mi-8/24 as there are centrugal droop stops that prevent feathering axis to fall too low, but still not a recommended practice.
Once again, I don't have real Mi-24 flight experience, but am fond of the Mi-8/17 and studied it's documentation for years, fly both fixed and rotaries for a living, and am a bit hesitant in some aspects of the " by the book " infos in the video.
All this is said with due respect, I'm pretty sure you did study your subject before posting it and have the original Flight Manual in hand, but I had to say it :)
PS : One technique I didn't find anything yet on the documentation I read on the Mi-24 is to make approach with 25-30° nose offset to have a clear view of your landing area and tightly control Aircraft trajectory. If done with right rudder dominance ( right offset nose ) you don't fear settling with power or overloading the turbines or MGB. I often use this IRL even in the small AS350 when a very steep descent angle is required, i.e tight jungle LZs. There is no such thing as tail rotor VRS, but LTE, and that would be quite difficult for the DCS engine to simulate it. Aircraft wake turbulence DCS feature is a debut and hopefully the whole engine can evolve to simulate all flow movement around any surface or airfoil, and then LTE and all those nasty aerodynamical effects could be simulated.
Cheers,
Hueyman
Hey Hueyman. Thank you for participating and keeping the conversation going!
Let me answer your points: Almost everything I do in this video comes straight from the Mi-24P manual. There are some older books from the Mi-24V that differ slightly.
By shooting the approach from 1000m distance, at 100m height and 80kph I do exactly as you are describing - aiming for a gradient / path.
Suggesting that 0,5° less collective will result in a 2m/s descend is only correct in that specific situation - so maybe I should have clarified that.
In the V version manual they do not permit backstick after landing to avoid a tailboom strike, as you have suggested. In the P manual they recommend one third backstick - while keeping rotor pitch at 6-8°. It sounds very logical to me.
The nose offset technique is nothing I have found in any Mi-8 (T, MT, MTV-1, MTV-5) or Mi-24 (V, P) book and nothing I have spotted in countless cockpit videos that I have analyzed. But it does not mean that it isn't a technique that is used from time to time. It definitely makes sense!
Greetigs,
Viktor
@@virtualflighttraining9694 Hi Viktor,
Thanks for input and clarification !
Yup, sometimes a tiny differences can fall between two variants for some reasons, and only the engineers and test pilots may have the correct explanations for that !
For the offset nose approach, indeed I never saw such thing in manual or video but for instance, on the sim, I cannot perform a pinnacle or fregate landing with straight approach due to the crocodile nose.
That being said, on the field techniques is often way out and beyond the Flight Manual, for example the Russians pushed the Mi-8 so hard in Afghanistan, Mil had to re-edit the flight manual with much increased weight and speed limits ! Ahah, good old Soviets ...
Happy flying !
Hello, perfect flight and good video !! Can you advise me how to set the axes please?
Virtual Flight Training ?
Good video can you do one on the auto hover. Thanks
Hi Phil! Thank you. You mean the Auto hover function of the autopilot?
This method seems to be pretty ok in terms of visibility of the runway. Personally though I prefer the 180 degree warbird method, so I can keep the runway in the left window as long as possible.
As do I. After so long drilling in navy aircraft for case 1s, it just feels easier for me to fly the pattern and come in at a 180 degree roll in on the field
Thank you for the input guys. There are many ways to do things in DCS. Some seem to make sense, others just work, because DCS has it's flaws. There are still quite a few aerodynamic effects not modelled at all (re-ingestion of exhaust gases, tail-rotor VRS,...) and "outside envelope" flight dynamic behavior is very difficult to replicate - even in commercial simulators. So you can either make use of those grey areas in DCS - fly your approach at 350kph, do a looping and then land backwards. Or you can mostly fly as it seems correct to you and perform maneuvers they way you think it makes sense. Or you can stick to what the manual says and fly it the way it was intended. That's the nice thing about DCS. Everyone can decide, how hardcore he wants to go. I personally prefer "by the book" and this is what the video is about.
Great video! One extra question for your Q and A, which manual are you flying this from? Also, download link?
I have added your question to the Q&A section!
I don't hear English speakers not call the thing Em I 24 Pe very often... :)
Nice tutorial. What aircraft do you fly in real life?
Thank you. I fly passenger jets.
Flying tank