I’ve been quite fortunate to have owned many sports cars. I currently own an Exige 430 Cup and I can tell you with great confidence that nothing compares to the Lotus.
@@Sassy7712 I own a GT4 4.0 and love it. It is a great car that can be daily driven and tracked. Compared to the Exige though it feels less special. It is just as fast on a track because it is easier to drive. The Exige is more analogue and requires more of the driver. The Exige makes you a better driver. The Exige is a race car first and road car second. Porsche for the road and occasional track day. A GTS is 80% of the GT4. Hope this helps.
My dad got a 2019 Cup 430 recently and I've gotten to drive it a few times. Amazes me how such a new car can remain so raw and pure. Still love my 2009 Elise SC tho 😁😁😁
It's crazy to think the best driving car in the world, the Lotus Elise, is still available for under $150,000. Driven Bugatti. Driven Lambo. Driven Ferrari. Nothing compares to the Lotus. Makes no sense why it's so cheap.
Nice comparison! I totally appreciate the rawness of the Elise, but wouldn’t trade my Cayman R for it. Of course, I fortuitously bought mine before prices went crazy, and it’s a daily driver, track and autox car. The 6-speed manual is made so much better with Numeric cables, the trunk fits 2 golf bags, the frunk fits two carry-on suitcases, and while I miss having buckets, the sport seats are very comfortable on long drives. Both fantastic cars that suit different needs.
My 06' Elise was a GREAT car but honestly I prefer my '12 Cayman S 987.2. It just does everything right and its much easier to live with...more raw than the 981's/718's, feels amazingly balanced in the corners, and otherwise has very little cons. Steering in the Elise is about as good as you will ever feel but I don't miss the shifter one bit.
My God what a great and knowledgeable review…. Everything from the gearing, exhaust note, steering etc etc. I was searching for a comparison of these EXACT two vehicles and found this… you have a new follower.
My beloved Elise was totaled by a guardrail on a mountain pass. Got a Cayman S as a replacement, and I love it too, for different reasons. Still miss the Elise in the corners (the Cayman is literally 50% heavier, and you do know it; there's no arguing with physics), but the Cayman is a much better, easier to use CAR, in every way, while still being fun. With the Lotus, I got a little tired of owning a car I only enjoyed using on perfect roads in perfect weather. I'm not limber enough to use it as a daily, for one thing. There's no right answer though; I'm not sure I won't own another Lotus in the future.
I drove a 986 Boxter a few years ago, and I finally drove a 981 Boxter yesterday. After driving a 91 MR2 Turbo with manual everything and my 2018 ND MX-5, the Boxter felt like a tank. I loved the exhaust sound and the PDK, but it was very heavy and big by comparison. I ended up keeping my MX-5. Once I pay it off, I'm going to do the Flyin Miata stage 1 turbo setup because my MR2 made me fall in love with turbos.
I have a 987 boxster and a 981 cayman, and the 981 chassis definitly drives like a bigger car. The 986 isn't a bad car but the updates to the 987 really make it the goldilocks of the bunch. Mine has cayman R suspension and it's a real game changer.
Nothing is beating a miata nd, nc or air cooled 911, or lotus elise & exige. U can never replace that car even a supercar 200k plus can never give u the same feeling, a supercar is good in a different way n good to have along with these lightweights but can never replace them.
Ugggh getting closer to selling my NSX for an Elise… just seems like it would be much more of an “experience,” even though the nsx is a better actual automobile. Great comparison, man!
Lightweight goes a loooong way, and really spoils you when driving heavier cars. You should really drive a fast 7 sometime - the difference in feel from an Elise to a 7 is even bigger than the jump from a Porsche to the Elise IMO. My Caterham made my Exige S240 feel like a Camry by comparison.
@@BRAINFxck10 Well, I do have bikes as well but, there is really no comparing between bikes and cars, despite journalists trying to. "It's a 4 wheeled motorcycle" - No it's not. Tell me you don't ride without actually telling me...
Yet again Love your review.. even more when a Lotus is involved. ;) BUT, I was surprised you have the Lotus touring/base wheels specs wrong in your info list. T/B wheels were 16x5.5 F/17x7.5 R. The LSS option had a 20 pound lighter wheel set and the fronts were an inch wider at 16x6.5. Just trying to keep the info correct. :)
After owning an 2008 Elise and sold it earlier this year, this review made me smile and also nostalgic. Love these review Zygrene, I always come back to listen to your opinion, unfiltered, genuine and educated. I know these 2 are quite different, but would you consider an M2 manual as a replacement for more power and more 'comfort' to an Elise? Since you drove both of them. Thanks in advance and please do not stop making videos!!!
The M2 feels very different from the Elise, but very fun in a different way. Only 50% as raw, at most. But easy to slide around and be a complete jackass in, while being comfortable!
I have a stock 987.2 2.9L with a manual. Its such a great all round sports car. Plus it can fit golf bags, inflatable kayaks or a tonne of shopping. Its stiff, but still very comfortable. And the gearing issues isn't as bad on the lower powered version. I have always wanted an Elise too. But its more of a second or third car. Good thing about a Porsche. If your on an above average wage, you can probably stretch your budget to get one and have it as your only car. With the Lotus its a bit more of a risk.
@letsseepaulallenopinion3217 they all have long gearing regardless of PDK or manual. At least with the slower versions, you can generally make more noise without hitting those crazy speeds as fast. I sold my 987.2 manual. And now I have a 981 2.7L base PDK Cayman.
@letsseepaulallenopinion3217 i dont know of any mods for the gear ratios unfortunately. But I do tend to move up and down the gears more in PDK then the manual. The PDK does generally drive better than the manual gearbox in the 987.2. The 987.2 manual is pretty rubbery/plasticy. Its nothing compared to an mx5 or s2000 gearbox
Nice comparison, love the squeak box expression, drove a older poorly kept TR-6 it was not only a squeak box but a rattle trap, same with a poorly kept gen4 corvette, just something about body on frame cars over time, they just get loose. I own a Boxster year 2000, I hated highway driving as the previous owner had put in a "sports exhaust" that thing had a terrible drone at cruzing speed. I managed to track down a used oem exahust for it and the drone is gone, but I still disliked it as I felt every bump in the road. Tiers were ten years old and still had some tread but I decided to change them any ways as they say tiers should be changed at 7 years, and now I know why, what a difference now they are more pliable and I do not feel every bump in the road any more, I wish I had changed them sooner, but at $250.00 each it was a little pain full, but hey, its a sports car, you got to pay to play.
the rev and the overhall sound of the elise is so much more satisfying and almost orgasmic and man go check that Porsche, that squeaking sound is not normal
Agree that Elise has serious noises when driving. When you hit a mild pothole, the suspension bottoms and you get a hairraising "BANG". Scares the crap out of you the first few times it happens.
They’re not touring wheels! They’re the base suspension wheels. The touring pack option was just for the interior. The sport pack suspension came with 195R comps on the front.
That Elise sounds so fantastic. Wow! Definitely would take it over the boring Porsche. Drove two Cayman R now and they really aren’t anything special for the price premium
People need to stop talking about the Elise so much or it'll be too expensive when I'm finally able to buy (another) one. I've owned many, many cars over the years and it's the best driving experience by far. The only reason to buy the Cayman would be because you could drive it daily, but driving a Cayman daily feels like wasting it to me, unless you commute on clear, quiet country roads. Give me a boring daily driver to make the Elise seem all the more special when I drive it.
In all fairness, the 2006 3.4L Cayman S was 25 seconds slower than the 2006 1.8L (Toyota ZZ) Elise around the Nurbugreing. For a dedicated weekend sports/track toy, I'm all about the light analog, seat of the pants driving experience. I need more than inertial forces to feel engaged and informed by my track car. Although driver assist technology softens the edges, I feel there is a steep incline to the law of diminishing returns. Preference between the two is subjective, but If I'm transitioning from work to play, I want the full boat track experience and not the more comfortable and refined version.
Kool comparison ! That Toyota manual was always the weak point in the Elise driving experience . Got the $- TVS superchargered AP1 motor and S2000 manual swap for the Elise.
@@patricsteele I don't think I've ever seen the s2 tranny adapted that way. Most commonly you'd use a Honda k series or Toyota e153 tranny. Same with the motor. The ap1 motor is much more expensive and doesn't have much , if any advantages over a K.
now i gotta do my oil change in my 01 2zz swapped mr2 spyder... lol i miss wringing that 2zz's neck out in our local canyons ! listening to lyft echo off the canyon walls....ugh ! eargasmic !
Great comp Fenton. Question: which you would take: 981GTS or the 987R? You had said in your 981GTS review that you would take that car over any non-GT Porsche. If you were going to buy a Porsche today: Is the 981GTS still on top of your non-GT Porsche list? Assume 981GTS Manual.
981 GTS over 987 R if both are stock. The extra refinement of the 981 is significant and worth the tradeoff in steering feel. Its stock exhaust also sounds way better. But maybe I'm just getting old...
@@Zygrene I'd have to agree with you there. Not old, just wiser after driving many cars and now having some real world perspective :). S2000 for life though. But I am eyeing the 981GTS Cayman with a Manual.... For the money, it seems to be a better driving experience than a non-GT 997 or 991 911. I'd love to see you get your hands on a 4.0liter 718 Cayman GTS.
My 2 cents as a CR owner, I’d go CR. It’s a much more special car. It was the experimental/GT4 mad science project of the Cayman. GT3 doors, 997.2 GT3 4.0L steering wheel and door pulls, lightest 19in Porsche wheels, no rev match, electronic parking break, no electric assist, etc. Extremely limited with only 563 in the US and only made for 1 year. If you see a CR, it’s a part of the Porsche Cayman history. Sound wise I put a FVD exhaust on mine and it has GT3 like overtones. That said, can’t go wrong with either or….you are buying a flat 6 manual Porsche and that’s special enough.
I have a 981 cayman GTS and a 987 Boxster S with cayman R suspension (both manual). I've also done nearly 1000 miles in a GT4 and another 1000 miles in a 987 boxster Spyder, which is nearly identical to the cayman R. So to answer your quesiton, it depends on what the purpose of the car is. I have a daily driver aside from my P cars, so I don't really care about comfort and refinement as much. If you do, then the GTS is a wonderful car. However if you want a more raw experience, the Cayman R will deliver. The steering in the 987 is telepathic compared to the numbness of the 981. What I like about the 981 generation cars is they seem to drive a little "bigger", they feel like more substantial sports cars and offer more luxury and road presence. The 987 cars offer unbelievable steering and drive smaller, kind of like a Miata times 1.25% and 2 more cylinders. I loved the boxster spyder so much when I drove it I immediately ordered cayman R suspension and it has transformed my car (along with an exhaust of course). As much as I loved the GT4 the car was just too expensive and was a little much for my driving on the street. The GTS (and honestly even a well optioned S) offers a great value proposition with 2/3 of the same street performance. So to boil it down, the 981 is hands down a better "car", but the 987 is IMO a far more engaging toy. So in my case I created the cheaper version of a spyder and GT4. I take the GTS when I want more speed, (bigger roads) and I take the boxster when I drive much tighter roads where power isn't as important but steering is.
Weight > HP That’s why people nowadays are buying and selling their sports car every 3 years. 0-60 in a straight gets boring. I still love my 987.2 Boxster.
I own both cars. Well, sort of...I have an '05 NA Elise and a '12 Boxster Spyder. I appreciate your reviews and agree with your assessment on these two cars. However, I was surprised by what you said about the shift feel of the Cayman R since the throw, feel, smoothness, and precision of the shifter in my stock Spyder is second-to-none. I wonder if the car you tested had changes to the shift action.
IMHO, having owned a Caterham, Elise & Boxster, the Caterham is an even better drivers car than the Elise. The boxster is a great car, but ultimately is a tourer rather than a pure sports car, it feels big & heavy, because it is. The Elise is a wonderful raw drivers car, but the Caterham at 550KG just cannot be bettered for a high adrenaline Sunday drivers car. The open top nature of the Elise & Caterham also adds an amazing dimension that so many reviewers totally ignore. The running costs of the Porsche will be at least double the other two just on mpg & tyres & discs etc. In summary, the brilliant but lardy (& in this case fixed roof) porky Porsche, just isn’t special or raw enough to compete with either the Lotus & Caterham. If you want a car to drive to the shops in comfort, buy a saloon car.
Have you driven a 4c? Cayman is meant to be a daily driver. Neither of those two are. Much more complete car than Elise. Elise is only good for a nice sunny day and track. These are totally different cars and they shouldn't be compared. Cayman R is much faster on a track than either of the two. Yet it can be driven daily.
@@patrickvanrinsvelt4466 l know it's. I have one. However l have not driven every other car to be entitled to say that there's nothing like Elise. Besides l am almost certain that track only cars like Ariel Atom, Caterham, BAC Mono would be even more focused than Elise. Lot more focused and will make the Elise feel vague. So saying, "there's nothing like Elise" is very inaccurate.
@@qnooraniOf course you are. However you ran out of argument and you are telling me to get a life? That's gross. You shouldn't be posting on public boards if you can't take a criticism.
Did you guys in the states get the S2 Exige S? The Achilles heel of the NA Elise's is straight line speed, the supercharged S2 Exiges obviously have more hp and torque. How much difference is there between a 987 Cayman S and Cayman R? Are they noticeable differences? S2 Elise's are around £20k here in the UK. If you don't mind RHD then maybe importing one would an idea? Anyway, for me the best value for money mid engine true drivers car, is the 981 Cayman or Boxster GTS. Everything you could want from a sports car plus a fair bit cheaper than the GT4's.
Yep, I've reviewed an Exige S240. Tons of power for such a light car, but I found the supercharger whine distracting and throttle response a bit lacking compared to an NA S2 Elise/Exige. Not much difference between 987 S vs R. I'd rather mod an S with suspension, brakes, control arms, bushings.
@@Zygrene I considered buying an R when once was for sale in NZ for a decent price. Still couldn't justify the cost over an 987.2, the mechanical improvements are so marginal. It's main differentiator to an S is how few were built, it's mostly a collectors car I feel or for people who like rare models.
The cold air intake is kind of superfluous. The airbox is in the left rear wheel well far from the engine and in free airflow. I do not understand the touring wheels with all the other mods as they are heavier than the Sport pack wheels and in total the car is 20 pounds heavier. Also, Touring Pack tires are 175 front though as can be seen he has upgraded to the Sport's 195. I went with Sector 111 shocks and Larini Stage II exhaust. I prefer my 2005 cable throttle, keeps the car analog. There IS ABS, it is the law. Mind you even at the Track I have never had it engage so Lotus must have all but programmed it out. The biggest inexpensive 'upgrade' is running non-ethanol fuel. Big difference in performance and fuel economy.
I have a 2010 Cayman S and I really like the Lotus, but the problem I encountered was due to my height, I'm 6' 2" and it's not in leg length its upper body and I had no headroom. I tried sitting in a Lotus Exige , but would need a Gurney bubble to get the head clearance, so that was a no go for me sadly.
As British car journalist Alex Goy always says whenever he drives a Lotus - *nothing* handles like a Lotus. The all aluminium chassis they build from hand are galaxies apart from what Toyota did with their MR2 chassis.
I've owned both and although the MR2 gets closer than anything else simply due to the layout and size, it's still miles off an Elise. Structural rigidity and steering feel being the most glaring differences. Still a great car for the money.
The Elise has an exotic chassis and it's a long way ahead of the MR2/S. The construction method Lotus used on the Elise went on to be used by supercar manufacturers.
From a collectible perspective you might be able to justify the R, but for driving, get the Cayman S and laugh all the way to the bank--only about 50 pounds heavier, 10 less hp (which is tune only, engine is identical to the R), and save HALF the money!
Totally agree. I have a 111R Elise with the 2zz also same spec as that Elise. I’ve also driven a base 987 cayman s and was so underwhelmed. Agree with every point you mentioned. For me the raw feel is unmatched in the Elise. However of course no where near as refined and practical as the cayman.
Would anyone recommend to start with a S2 Elise and then go to Exige (350/380), or skip the Elise and go Exige S3 immediatly? 23yo, and can buy the Elise this year. But the Exige would take me atleast 2 years extra.
I played Need For Speed and the only car that gave me good feeling is the Lotus Elise, I can't imagine driving a real one but... who kow... I was owner of the first (late 2021-2022) BMW Mini Cooper S at this moment.
I have both. 06 Elise and 21 ND Club (my daily commuter). Both are excellent. I wouldn't want to DD the Lotus. The best description is it's louder, lower, faster, and more of an attention getter. I must also say that I've gotten many compliments on the Soul Crystal Red color of the Miata. You can't lose with either car.
These reviews are completely pointless. These two cars are completely different. They are both excellent in what they specialized for. Elise is a single purpose car. Cayman R is a multi purposes car. It is good at everything it does. It will destroy any Elise on the track. It is not meant to make you feel like you are driving a toy. It is built for high speed cornering stability. Nobody can beat Porsche in its own game. Elise is a motorcycle on four wheels. A totally different purpose than the Porsche. These two cars should not be compared because they have nothing in common except the placement.
You should eventually try both cars, just know odds are you'll keep the Porsche much longer as its a LOT easier to live with. The Elise is fun for about a year or two tops then there is a good chance you'll be looking for something more refined.
Good AC in the Lotus? Really? Really? ;-) Having owned an '06 Elise(and sold, after multiple failed attempts by Lotus to fix the AC), I can attest to the old Lotus PR legend of engineers "having tested the HVAC in Dubai" but no word whether the test engineers survived. Nice car if your ambient temps don't exceed 85F.
I’ve been quite fortunate to have owned many sports cars. I currently own an Exige 430 Cup and I can tell you with great confidence that nothing compares to the Lotus.
Have you owned/driven a Cayman GTS/GT4? How does it compare, and what would you suggest for a weekend car and 4-6x track days per year??
@@Sassy7712 I own a GT4 4.0 and love it. It is a great car that can be daily driven and tracked. Compared to the Exige though it feels less special. It is just as fast on a track because it is easier to drive. The Exige is more analogue and requires more of the driver. The Exige makes you a better driver. The Exige is a race car first and road car second. Porsche for the road and occasional track day. A GTS is 80% of the GT4. Hope this helps.
@@evansc3580 Brilliant, thank you Evan!
im still rocking a 2005 NA elise with zero upgrades and its a blast everytime. cant imagine what the exige 430 must feel like.
My dad got a 2019 Cup 430 recently and I've gotten to drive it a few times. Amazes me how such a new car can remain so raw and pure. Still love my 2009 Elise SC tho 😁😁😁
This video made me appreciate my Elise even more. Another great video, Fenton!
It's crazy to think the best driving car in the world, the Lotus Elise, is still available for under $150,000. Driven Bugatti. Driven Lambo. Driven Ferrari. Nothing compares to the Lotus. Makes no sense why it's so cheap.
Hush!
Nice comparison! I totally appreciate the rawness of the Elise, but wouldn’t trade my Cayman R for it. Of course, I fortuitously bought mine before prices went crazy, and it’s a daily driver, track and autox car. The 6-speed manual is made so much better with Numeric cables, the trunk fits 2 golf bags, the frunk fits two carry-on suitcases, and while I miss having buckets, the sport seats are very comfortable on long drives. Both fantastic cars that suit different needs.
The sound when the Elise hits lift 😩
VTAK
My 06' Elise was a GREAT car but honestly I prefer my '12 Cayman S 987.2. It just does everything right and its much easier to live with...more raw than the 981's/718's, feels amazingly balanced in the corners, and otherwise has very little cons. Steering in the Elise is about as good as you will ever feel but I don't miss the shifter one bit.
Having owned both, I vastly prefer the Lotus.
Vastly. WOW. Care to elaborate why?
@@dannymcqueen Smaller, lighter, more nimble, more visceral, more fun at any speed and fun is what it's all about.
What a great comparison. I cannot belive the crossover that comes out of that little 2ZZ! Little pocket rocket looks like a blast.
Love the detailed review of driving dynamics rather then just a spec sheet
99% agree. I own a S2 Elise R. The steer feeling is the best I ever driven.
Good fun comparison. Any Elise is like a tonic compared to nearly any other modern car. Both of these fill their respective niche very well though.
My God what a great and knowledgeable review…. Everything from the gearing, exhaust note, steering etc etc. I was searching for a comparison of these EXACT two vehicles and found this… you have a new follower.
My beloved Elise was totaled by a guardrail on a mountain pass. Got a Cayman S as a replacement, and I love it too, for different reasons. Still miss the Elise in the corners (the Cayman is literally 50% heavier, and you do know it; there's no arguing with physics), but the Cayman is a much better, easier to use CAR, in every way, while still being fun. With the Lotus, I got a little tired of owning a car I only enjoyed using on perfect roads in perfect weather. I'm not limber enough to use it as a daily, for one thing.
There's no right answer though; I'm not sure I won't own another Lotus in the future.
I really love these comparisons, thank you so much for showing us "realistically" affordable sports cars.
Glad you like the sonicFURY and Racetechs
Your content is awesome man - always look forward to watching your reviews. Keep up the work. Cheers
I drove a 986 Boxter a few years ago, and I finally drove a 981 Boxter yesterday. After driving a 91 MR2 Turbo with manual everything and my 2018 ND MX-5, the Boxter felt like a tank. I loved the exhaust sound and the PDK, but it was very heavy and big by comparison. I ended up keeping my MX-5. Once I pay it off, I'm going to do the Flyin Miata stage 1 turbo setup because my MR2 made me fall in love with turbos.
You should try Elise. The feel of steering wheel is better than Miata.
I have a 987 boxster and a 981 cayman, and the 981 chassis definitly drives like a bigger car. The 986 isn't a bad car but the updates to the 987 really make it the goldilocks of the bunch. Mine has cayman R suspension and it's a real game changer.
@@atairsoft it’s also 2X the price and far less comfortable and practical
Nothing is beating a miata nd, nc or air cooled 911, or lotus elise & exige. U can never replace that car even a supercar 200k plus can never give u the same feeling, a supercar is good in a different way n good to have along with these lightweights but can never replace them.
Ugggh getting closer to selling my NSX for an Elise… just seems like it would be much more of an “experience,” even though the nsx is a better actual automobile. Great comparison, man!
Do it!
Sell your NSX????
Or look at an S3 Exige v6. It's a killer.
Lightweight goes a loooong way, and really spoils you when driving heavier cars. You should really drive a fast 7 sometime - the difference in feel from an Elise to a 7 is even bigger than the jump from a Porsche to the Elise IMO. My Caterham made my Exige S240 feel like a Camry by comparison.
Preach brother 🙌
Darn, this makes me want one.
Yeah but at that point it's like dude just buy a motorcycle if you want the lightest vehicle possible
@@BRAINFxck10 Well, I do have bikes as well but, there is really no comparing between bikes and cars, despite journalists trying to. "It's a 4 wheeled motorcycle" - No it's not. Tell me you don't ride without actually telling me...
You can’t compare anything to an Elise. The Elise is in a class of its own.
Super video. It's the Lotus for me!
Yet again Love your review.. even more when a Lotus is involved. ;)
BUT, I was surprised you have the Lotus touring/base wheels specs wrong in your info list.
T/B wheels were 16x5.5 F/17x7.5 R. The LSS option had a 20 pound lighter wheel set and the fronts were an inch wider at 16x6.5. Just trying to keep the info correct. :)
After owning an 2008 Elise and sold it earlier this year, this review made me smile and also nostalgic. Love these review Zygrene, I always come back to listen to your opinion, unfiltered, genuine and educated.
I know these 2 are quite different, but would you consider an M2 manual as a replacement for more power and more 'comfort' to an Elise? Since you drove both of them.
Thanks in advance and please do not stop making videos!!!
The M2 feels very different from the Elise, but very fun in a different way. Only 50% as raw, at most. But easy to slide around and be a complete jackass in, while being comfortable!
Been waiting for a review like this 👍
I have a stock 987.2 2.9L with a manual. Its such a great all round sports car. Plus it can fit golf bags, inflatable kayaks or a tonne of shopping. Its stiff, but still very comfortable. And the gearing issues isn't as bad on the lower powered version. I have always wanted an Elise too. But its more of a second or third car. Good thing about a Porsche. If your on an above average wage, you can probably stretch your budget to get one and have it as your only car. With the Lotus its a bit more of a risk.
🎉 cheers! I also own a 987.2 manual…very fun. Agreed!
The 2.9 also has long gearing?
@letsseepaulallenopinion3217 they all have long gearing regardless of PDK or manual. At least with the slower versions, you can generally make more noise without hitting those crazy speeds as fast.
I sold my 987.2 manual. And now I have a 981 2.7L base PDK Cayman.
@ForgetfulFoot i see, isn't the 981 has longer gearing than 2.9? Even pdk. Is there any gear ratio or final gear mods you know for the mt/pdk?
@letsseepaulallenopinion3217 i dont know of any mods for the gear ratios unfortunately. But I do tend to move up and down the gears more in PDK then the manual. The PDK does generally drive better than the manual gearbox in the 987.2. The 987.2 manual is pretty rubbery/plasticy. Its nothing compared to an mx5 or s2000 gearbox
Nice comparison, love the squeak box expression, drove a older poorly kept TR-6 it was not only a squeak box but a rattle trap, same with a poorly kept gen4 corvette, just something about body on frame cars over time, they just get loose.
I own a Boxster year 2000, I hated highway driving as the previous owner had put in a "sports exhaust" that thing had a terrible drone at cruzing speed. I managed to track down a used oem exahust for it and the drone is gone, but I still disliked it as I felt every bump in the road. Tiers were ten years old and still had some tread but I decided to change them any ways as they say tiers should be changed at 7 years, and now I know why, what a difference now they are more pliable and I do not feel every bump in the road any more, I wish I had changed them sooner, but at $250.00 each it was a little pain full, but hey, its a sports car, you got to pay to play.
2024 and the cayman is still appreciating and increasing in price
the rev and the overhall sound of the elise is so much more satisfying and almost orgasmic
and man go check that Porsche, that squeaking sound is not normal
Agree that Elise has serious noises when driving. When you hit a mild pothole, the suspension bottoms and you get a hairraising "BANG". Scares the crap out of you the first few times it happens.
They’re not touring wheels! They’re the base suspension wheels. The touring pack option was just for the interior. The sport pack suspension came with 195R comps on the front.
The Exige would have been a closer comparison power wise.
Very interesting comparison!
That Elise sounds so fantastic. Wow! Definitely would take it over the boring Porsche. Drove two Cayman R now and they really aren’t anything special for the price premium
I loved the R so much when I rented one, had to buy a gt4
People need to stop talking about the Elise so much or it'll be too expensive when I'm finally able to buy (another) one. I've owned many, many cars over the years and it's the best driving experience by far.
The only reason to buy the Cayman would be because you could drive it daily, but driving a Cayman daily feels like wasting it to me, unless you commute on clear, quiet country roads. Give me a boring daily driver to make the Elise seem all the more special when I drive it.
In all fairness, the 2006 3.4L Cayman S was 25 seconds slower than the 2006 1.8L (Toyota ZZ) Elise around the Nurbugreing. For a dedicated weekend sports/track toy, I'm all about the light analog, seat of the pants driving experience. I need more than inertial forces to feel engaged and informed by my track car. Although driver assist technology softens the edges, I feel there is a steep incline to the law of diminishing returns. Preference between the two is subjective, but If I'm transitioning from work to play, I want the full boat track experience and not the more comfortable and refined version.
Hey Fenton, 👆⬆👆 Is this one of those YT sacmbot things?
You’ve got that backwards.
@@86Digilio Not if you view it through a mirror LOL. Actually the post I'm referring to was removed.
Kool comparison ! That Toyota manual was always the weak point in the Elise driving experience . Got the $- TVS superchargered AP1 motor and S2000 manual swap for the Elise.
How is the s2000 tranny supposed to ever work in the longitudinal mounting of an Elise?
@@hedonisticvanity just put in a K swap be done
@@hedonisticvanity with the $ saved from the Porsche-adapter fabrication.
@@patricsteele I don't think I've ever seen the s2 tranny adapted that way. Most commonly you'd use a Honda k series or Toyota e153 tranny. Same with the motor. The ap1 motor is much more expensive and doesn't have much , if any advantages over a K.
im 14 this is my favorite car, ima save for this, Im in NJ so i have to be 17 for my license so when i get this at 17 ill daily this car every day
Very cool. You'd love my 2005 111R.
now i gotta do my oil change in my 01 2zz swapped mr2 spyder... lol i miss wringing that 2zz's neck out in our local canyons !
listening to lyft echo off the canyon walls....ugh ! eargasmic !
Great comp Fenton. Question: which you would take: 981GTS or the 987R? You had said in your 981GTS review that you would take that car over any non-GT Porsche. If you were going to buy a Porsche today: Is the 981GTS still on top of your non-GT Porsche list? Assume 981GTS Manual.
981 GTS over 987 R if both are stock. The extra refinement of the 981 is significant and worth the tradeoff in steering feel. Its stock exhaust also sounds way better. But maybe I'm just getting old...
@@Zygrene That Cayman R is missing the PSE, and trust me that makes a big difference. Standard mufflers for the 987 spyder/R kill the tone.
@@Zygrene I'd have to agree with you there. Not old, just wiser after driving many cars and now having some real world perspective :). S2000 for life though. But I am eyeing the 981GTS Cayman with a Manual.... For the money, it seems to be a better driving experience than a non-GT 997 or 991 911. I'd love to see you get your hands on a 4.0liter 718 Cayman GTS.
My 2 cents as a CR owner, I’d go CR. It’s a much more special car. It was the experimental/GT4 mad science project of the Cayman. GT3 doors, 997.2 GT3 4.0L steering wheel and door pulls, lightest 19in Porsche wheels, no rev match, electronic parking break, no electric assist, etc. Extremely limited with only 563 in the US and only made for 1 year. If you see a CR, it’s a part of the Porsche Cayman history.
Sound wise I put a FVD exhaust on mine and it has GT3 like overtones.
That said, can’t go wrong with either or….you are buying a flat 6 manual Porsche and that’s special enough.
I have a 981 cayman GTS and a 987 Boxster S with cayman R suspension (both manual). I've also done nearly 1000 miles in a GT4 and another 1000 miles in a 987 boxster Spyder, which is nearly identical to the cayman R.
So to answer your quesiton, it depends on what the purpose of the car is. I have a daily driver aside from my P cars, so I don't really care about comfort and refinement as much. If you do, then the GTS is a wonderful car. However if you want a more raw experience, the Cayman R will deliver. The steering in the 987 is telepathic compared to the numbness of the 981. What I like about the 981 generation cars is they seem to drive a little "bigger", they feel like more substantial sports cars and offer more luxury and road presence. The 987 cars offer unbelievable steering and drive smaller, kind of like a Miata times 1.25% and 2 more cylinders. I loved the boxster spyder so much when I drove it I immediately ordered cayman R suspension and it has transformed my car (along with an exhaust of course). As much as I loved the GT4 the car was just too expensive and was a little much for my driving on the street. The GTS (and honestly even a well optioned S) offers a great value proposition with 2/3 of the same street performance. So to boil it down, the 981 is hands down a better "car", but the 987 is IMO a far more engaging toy. So in my case I created the cheaper version of a spyder and GT4. I take the GTS when I want more speed, (bigger roads) and I take the boxster when I drive much tighter roads where power isn't as important but steering is.
would love to hear your thoughts of the emira in a future video
I would love an Elise, fantastic cars.
Don't wait. I wish I had gotten mine 15 years ago
Weight > HP
That’s why people nowadays are buying and selling their sports car every 3 years. 0-60 in a straight gets boring. I still love my 987.2 Boxster.
When you said, the Lotus doesn't have ABS, I'm wondering how that's possible? The series 2 all had ABS.
Nope. My 111R has no ABS. Not quite sure I have needed it yet on dry roads. Very light car and very soft tires.
@@patrickvanrinsvelt4466 what year is your car and is it a USA spec car with the Toyota engine?
@@karlInSanDiego 2005 111R RHD. Not USA spec.
All of them from 2005ish onwards have ABS. Which means all the US spec ones do. The earlier UK spec ones won't even have airbags or assisted brakes.
Try the S1 with 11kg lighter MMC Brakes and Alu Hubs. This was the true lightweight without compromises. 700kg+driver
I own both cars. Well, sort of...I have an '05 NA Elise and a '12 Boxster Spyder. I appreciate your reviews and agree with your assessment on these two cars. However, I was surprised by what you said about the shift feel of the Cayman R since the throw, feel, smoothness, and precision of the shifter in my stock Spyder is second-to-none. I wonder if the car you tested had changes to the shift action.
Very jealous, the spyder is a phenomneal car. I agree with the shift feel, I thought the spyder had a wonderful shifter, 2nd only to a GT4.
Try out an s2000 shifter, I liked it way more than the boxster shifter. The boxster has a linkage, so it's going to be part of the difference
IMHO, having owned a Caterham, Elise & Boxster, the Caterham is an even better drivers car than the Elise. The boxster is a great car, but ultimately is a tourer rather than a pure sports car, it feels big & heavy, because it is. The Elise is a wonderful raw drivers car, but the Caterham at 550KG just cannot be bettered for a high adrenaline Sunday drivers car. The open top nature of the Elise & Caterham also adds an amazing dimension that so many reviewers totally ignore. The running costs of the Porsche will be at least double the other two just on mpg & tyres & discs etc. In summary, the brilliant but lardy (& in this case fixed roof) porky Porsche, just isn’t special or raw enough to compete with either the Lotus & Caterham. If you want a car to drive to the shops in comfort, buy a saloon car.
Have you driven a 4c?
Cayman is meant to be a daily driver. Neither of those two are.
Much more complete car than Elise. Elise is only good for a nice sunny day and track.
These are totally different cars and they shouldn't be compared.
Cayman R is much faster on a track than either of the two. Yet it can be driven daily.
Been looking at adding a Caterham. They look like such a hoot.
@@mirkotripic1752We had a track day with Lotus and Alphas. The 4C could not keep up with the Exige on the track
@@patrickvanrinsvelt4466 Exige?
I was under the impression that this conversation was s about Elise?
the elise is the most fun i have ever had in a car. nothing comes close to the driving experience.
How do you know that?
Have you driven every other car?
@@mirkotripic1752I have been in quite a few and driven others. The Elise is a completely different experience. The v6 S3 Exige is even crazier.
@@patrickvanrinsvelt4466 l know it's.
I have one. However l have not driven every other car to be entitled to say that there's nothing like Elise.
Besides l am almost certain that track only cars like Ariel Atom, Caterham, BAC Mono would be even more focused than Elise. Lot more focused and will make the Elise feel vague.
So saying, "there's nothing like Elise" is very inaccurate.
@mirkotripic1752 everyone is entitled to their own opinion and NO ONE needs to answer to you. get a life.
@@qnooraniOf course you are.
However you ran out of argument and you are telling me to get a life?
That's gross. You shouldn't be posting on public boards if you can't take a criticism.
Did you guys in the states get the S2 Exige S? The Achilles heel of the NA Elise's is straight line speed, the supercharged S2 Exiges obviously have more hp and torque.
How much difference is there between a 987 Cayman S and Cayman R? Are they noticeable differences?
S2 Elise's are around £20k here in the UK. If you don't mind RHD then maybe importing one would an idea?
Anyway, for me the best value for money mid engine true drivers car, is the 981 Cayman or Boxster GTS. Everything you could want from a sports car plus a fair bit cheaper than the GT4's.
Yep, I've reviewed an Exige S240. Tons of power for such a light car, but I found the supercharger whine distracting and throttle response a bit lacking compared to an NA S2 Elise/Exige. Not much difference between 987 S vs R. I'd rather mod an S with suspension, brakes, control arms, bushings.
@@Zygrene Have you driven a 981 GTS? I remember the blue Cayman you had, was that a 987 or 986?
@@johnmitchell2269 check out my 981 Boxster GTS review from earlier this year! I owned a black 987.1 Cayman S for about a year.
@@Zygrene I considered buying an R when once was for sale in NZ for a decent price. Still couldn't justify the cost over an 987.2, the mechanical improvements are so marginal. It's main differentiator to an S is how few were built, it's mostly a collectors car I feel or for people who like rare models.
The cold air intake is kind of superfluous. The airbox is in the left rear wheel well far from the engine and in free airflow. I do not understand the touring wheels with all the other mods as they are heavier than the Sport pack wheels and in total the car is 20 pounds heavier. Also, Touring Pack tires are 175 front though as can be seen he has upgraded to the Sport's 195. I went with Sector 111 shocks and Larini Stage II exhaust. I prefer my 2005 cable throttle, keeps the car analog. There IS ABS, it is the law. Mind you even at the Track I have never had it engage so Lotus must have all but programmed it out. The biggest inexpensive 'upgrade' is running non-ethanol fuel. Big difference in performance and fuel economy.
I have a 2010 Cayman S and I really like the Lotus, but the problem I encountered was due to my height, I'm 6' 2" and it's not in leg length its upper body and I had no headroom. I tried sitting in a Lotus Exige , but would need a Gurney bubble to get the head clearance, so that was a no go for me sadly.
Just for giggles and laughs I'd like to see you compare a stock MR2 Spyder against the Elise. Would be 🤔.
Elise completely mops the floor with a stock MR-S. I filmed Elise vs 2ZZ MR-S a few years back and it was closer.
As British car journalist Alex Goy always says whenever he drives a Lotus - *nothing* handles like a Lotus. The all aluminium chassis they build from hand are galaxies apart from what Toyota did with their MR2 chassis.
I've owned both and although the MR2 gets closer than anything else simply due to the layout and size, it's still miles off an Elise. Structural rigidity and steering feel being the most glaring differences. Still a great car for the money.
The Elise has an exotic chassis and it's a long way ahead of the MR2/S. The construction method Lotus used on the Elise went on to be used by supercar manufacturers.
Elise needs a K series
Agree for the shifter alone and more headroom N/A
Would it fit?
@@johnconnor7501 yup youtube k20 elise
A 300hp built K20/24 would make this a monster
smaller is always better for performance. bigger is always better when t-boned by suv
I would say the Cayman r in this video has racing pads if not IDK
From a collectible perspective you might be able to justify the R, but for driving, get the Cayman S and laugh all the way to the bank--only about 50 pounds heavier, 10 less hp (which is tune only, engine is identical to the R), and save HALF the money!
How do they compare to a stock first gen nsx and also to Hugo’s nsx r replica?
Totally agree. I have a 111R Elise with the 2zz also same spec as that Elise. I’ve also driven a base 987 cayman s and was so underwhelmed. Agree with every point you mentioned. For me the raw feel is unmatched in the Elise. However of course no where near as refined and practical as the cayman.
Would anyone recommend to start with a S2 Elise and then go to Exige (350/380), or skip the Elise and go Exige S3 immediatly?
23yo, and can buy the Elise this year. But the Exige would take me atleast 2 years extra.
I played Need For Speed and the only car that gave me good feeling is the Lotus Elise, I can't imagine driving a real one but... who kow... I was owner of the first (late 2021-2022) BMW Mini Cooper S at this moment.
Try an Elise! The Games cannot give you a real feeling for lightweight. And take one of the First 2000 s1 with nearly 700 KG
@@Oodlak I will ASAP !
What about a lovely mazda mx5 nd2 ? I am in love with the Rf 184hp.
I have multiple ND2 videos on my channel!
I have both. 06 Elise and 21 ND Club (my daily commuter). Both are excellent. I wouldn't want to DD the Lotus. The best description is it's louder, lower, faster, and more of an attention getter. I must also say that I've gotten many compliments on the Soul Crystal Red color of the Miata. You can't lose with either car.
@@darrendonovan6679 great. I would take the mx5 rf in grey machine color anyway. Anyway the soul red cristal is fantastic.
Try the S1 even lighter and better feel/handling
Much slower though
@@lomfmur not with 160 bhp
@@paullondon5332 Those are quite rare though, the similarly rare S2's are still quicker and from the sounds of it, much better built
lotus elise vs S2000? Which do you prefer?
Stock vs stock, Elise hands down. A proper track prepped S2000 vs S2 Elise/Exige would be really close though.
@@Zygrene Thanks, anyway Great Channel for real man. Keep posting 💯💯
These reviews are completely pointless.
These two cars are completely different.
They are both excellent in what they specialized for.
Elise is a single purpose car. Cayman R is a multi purposes car.
It is good at everything it does.
It will destroy any Elise on the track.
It is not meant to make you feel like you are driving a toy.
It is built for high speed cornering stability.
Nobody can beat Porsche in its own game.
Elise is a motorcycle on four wheels. A totally different purpose than the Porsche. These two cars should not be compared because they have nothing in common except the placement.
I find the pdk has better gearing. I'm not really sure why porsche makes their gearing so long, must be the midrange torque they want you to use.
Even the PDK (at least in the 981 GTS I drove) was geared too long. A big drawback in many Porsches I've reviewed.
Regulations on sound and emissions
It does have ABS. Love eliges but just sold my exige s i had for 11 years. Will likely buy a 981. Elise is just so bad at regular car things
Porsche is more quiet high speed and stable.
Elise for me or keep my s2k. The Cayman R is way overpriced imo.
Cayman s
Cayman R is definitely more of a collector item. Cayman S with quality mods would far exceed the R in driving dynamics for less money.
You should eventually try both cars, just know odds are you'll keep the Porsche much longer as its a LOT easier to live with. The Elise is fun for about a year or two tops then there is a good chance you'll be looking for something more refined.
I had an s2k and moved on to Elise. If you have another car as a daily, highly suggest getting an Elise. Much better driving experience than a s2k
@@lotusupra is it actually absolutely better in absolutely every single way> ?
No way you can daily an Elise, that would get old really really fast... I know I had one. I changed it to a Cayman as that's a more grown up car.
I want 1.
Money wise, Cayman R vs Exige 350 would maoe more sense. And the Exige would obliterate it in any way, except luxury and comfort.
@@SquiggyWigginz Where im from, they are pretty comparible in price. Lotus being about 10k more than the Cayman R.
@@SquiggyWigginz I think you forgot your meds buddy
@neverenoughgames72 look, between ANY Porsche and a LOTUS, I'll take the Lotus every single time.
@@SquiggyWigginz Yup. You're on a diffrent flight mate.
I also would take the Lotus.
Good AC in the Lotus?
Really?
Really? ;-)
Having owned an '06 Elise(and sold, after multiple failed attempts by Lotus to fix the AC), I can attest to the old Lotus PR legend of engineers "having tested the HVAC in Dubai" but no word whether the test engineers survived. Nice car if your ambient temps don't exceed 85F.
I actually found out there was a DIFFERENT, UPGRADED AC system for that Dubai test.. they should have put that as standard...lol
No AC. No stereo. Just lots of great noise.
For $50k I'm going to get a 2001 Dodge Viper RT/10.
Yep. And you'll beat me in a straight line. On the curvy roads though ...Or look at a Lotus Esprit. Great handling, huge power.
If only it came with an automatic transmission...
Having an automatic would completely ruin the experience, the engine REQUIRES you have a manual
Haha yeah if only it was a Tesla right? You need your car to drive itself cuz you're not good enough
why?
mustangs and corollas and teslas already exist