The Hot Swapping Gear Mechanism | VCT2
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- Опубликовано: 30 июн 2018
- A really neat transmission design by Dale Val Cor.
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Развлечения
The VCT2 that Ross built lacks the channel entrance and exits. This is for moving the pinion gear out of the drive gear, then change speeds, then move it into exit and into the next drive gear. This would make a smoother transition, but is more work to design and build.
Dale Van Cor yes this, very similar to a modern bicycle
I see multiple problems with this. If it doesn't have a clutch, that means the engine and wheels are always connected. So start up would be a problem, and idling wouldn't be available. Also, you'd have to switch gears one at a time. You wouldn't be able to go from 4 to 1 when you stop at a light.
kibukun. Theres no reason it wouldnt have a clutch, the point is that you wouldnt need to use the clutch to shift. And a solution to the other problem is simple, you have the clutch on the output side with the geartrain driven directly by the engine.
If you are in a high gear and stop suddenly so that it cant downshift to 1st you put the clutch in and the gears still being driven allows that shift to happen.
In an entirely manual setup this would operate no differently than a normal manual transmission, and if automated the computer can do the same.
Either way the benefit is once moving the clutch doesnt necessarily need to be used and thus you A: get extended clutch life and B: potential greater performance.
Farming simulator
DrewLSsix alright makes sense, you know, since you don't change hears with a clutch, you don't get that second where you lose power to the wheels during gear transit. Now the only problem I see are the gears themselves. Since you have a bunch of gears that are off-center, it messes with the balance of the transmission, thus causing it to vibrate. I guess you can mitigate that with weights though.
"It doesn't require a clutch, you just have to stop the gears completely to transition and then the ratio can be changed"
/facepalm
lol
Robert Caldwell Looks like you've misunderstood. This could be done at speed. You just need a computer and quick electronics, which OP clearly hasn't got.
No it couldn't, no mechanical device could launch across a pivot in that short period of time accurately, not to mention taking the load abruptly during the change along with it......and even if it could once, it can't be trusted to do it again, let alone constantly. Pretend a device does exist, imagine the catastrophe that would happen when it wears down?
Robert Caldwell Imagine a bearing on each tooth of the drive gear set laterally to the tooth. They would facilitate smoother shifting even while under load. Also, you underestimate the accuracy and speed of a computer-controlled servo motor.
And here is me, waiting on a demo of this brilliant piece of engineering that has been devised.......when you get it working, I bet it will look like a clutch.
Good luck
I think it's look more like 2 hall effect sensors, a linear servo and a computer to control it, but hey I guess that could look like some type of clutch...
What a crazy, cool transmission! It looks so neat when you spin it and you can see the shared gear teeth areas between stages. Thanks for the shout out and keep this great content coming!
2 major issues in a car application:
The time window for performing the entire shift is REALLY tiny, say at 8k RPM, a single rotation only takes 7,5 ms. Only a tiny bit of this rotation is suitable for a gear shift, reducing the shift time to maybe a 10th of a millisecond, unrealistically short time to move that center gear.
Then you have the instant gear ratio change. A clutch allows the engine to adjust to the new RPM slowly.
In this case the engine does not get any time to adjust RPM, leading to massive stresses to entire drive train, potential locking of the wheels on a downshift and breaking lose of the rear when upshifting. In a regular car you may be lucky that the open differential will only cause the inner wheel to breake lose, but on any kind of limited slip differential a gear shift in a corner will certainly lead to a spin (in a RWD car)
BFHfunify you are right, he will need a clutch whatever
Yeah absolutely, fundamentally this will only work at ultra slow speeds and so definitely not useful in an automotive application, however this technology could be used is something operating at much slower speeds. It’s a cool design that I’m sure could have a practical use in certain fields.
BFHfunify also the horrendous vibration from that pinon flipping left and right while in the transition period
Nobody really knows that for sure. It just happens or could be the other way around.
Mabe have a huge gear reduction before the gearbox and gear it back up after that way the gear box would be moving slow enuff to make the gear change. But it makes no sense when autos and manuals work fine.
You did a good job explaining most of the weaknesses of this concept. There's a big one not mentioned in the video, that could be worked around via a clutch or torque converter disengagement (defeating the purpose) and that's that the shift transition must happen precisely on those small transition zones of a tooth or two, while at speed, while under load: that would be a huge dynamic force to happen at higher RPMs.
I'm not convinced this transmission concept can be feasibly used in a serious car/truck application as a result. However, it could be used in a human-powered bicycle due to the much lower torque and RPM requirements, but there are already working solutions there, too, that are likely lighter and more resilient.
Yup, and unless the ratios are even 2:1/1:1/1:2 etc. that specific point would only occur every so many rotations. Two for 2:1, three for 3:1, but for something like 2.2:1 it would only occur every 22 rotations.
I just wanted to say that I love your channel, and love your videos! I love being able to see practical models of these cool designs, and sometimes even put to real world tests. SO COOL! keep it up!
Great to see others who love getting it wrong. We learn more from a stuff up than we ever will from getting it right first time. Stay true to the cause brother.
You say it can change ratios while under power, but you stop rotating it each time you change ratios. If the gears are under load, I don't see how they will slide. Try to pull a manual transmission out of gear while under load. It doesn't happen. Not until you are coasting.
You can do it, but the forces needed are immense, with immense potential for damage.
twinturbostang A human cannot do it, because we're too imprecise. A computer controller system can do it.
Not saying that it'd be better, just that it requires position to shift under load, essentially a shift has to happen in the timespan of 1 rotation.
Maybe because it's driven back and forth on threaded rod. You can get pretty high forces like that, like on a mill table.
The shift has to happen in a fraction of a rotation, otherwise the gears destroy each other when the moving one attempts to mesh with two differently sized gear wheels at the same rotation frequency. Still an interesting mechanical parlor trick.
Of course it has to happen very quickly. And yes you can generate high forces with screw drives. But my point was there's going to be a lot of shear stress on the gear faces that will probably result in rapid gear tooth wear. Could be wrong, but I think it would not last very long.
No joke, this is what I have been looking for for 5 months now. I needed a clever way to allow gears to shift without a transmission and this is the solution. Thanks so much!!
Maybe its not perfect, but its smart trying to develop something new!
Keep doing what you are doing 👍
Jonathan Straetman not a new design
Lol. He remade something done 100yrs ago. It was useless then and now. The smart guy came up with the clutch, lol.
@@outkast187 This Transmission design was patented in 2002, not 1919
Hey Buddy, Happy to see another one of your videos up. Keep it up man, really digging the ideas!
Beautiful design. Thank you for this visual treat.
*Fewer* moving parts.
Slappy doesn't look that way to me. A lot of extra gears there just to aid in shifting.
KC9UDX I think they're pointing out the grammar mistakes, not commenting on the number of parts.
v3124 but it doesn't need sense to correct mistakes with errors. :)
Thank you. Drives me crazy when people misuse "less" and "fewer".
there is only 3 moving objects, remember, all those gears are connected
Somewhat tending toward a "geared" version of the double cone cvt with a friction wheel in between. If a more "viable" variant vere to be designed (with continuous gear change instead of an instantaneous swap that'll kill your engine) it might be a huge success. Also it would need a lot of force to slide through when a load is applied.
This design has been in use for a long time
I haven't watched you in MONTHS. You are Getting somewhere, Keep it up. 😎 Gear Down For POWER.
Well thanks for coming back!
You would need a sophisticated computer and gear position sensors to shift at the right moment, or BOOM! and reverse?
Looks like they'd have a problem with weight distribution too. I wonder at what RPM the unit would shake itself to bits?
Jean-Yves Mead You could counter-balance the shaft to correct that.
Actually it would not require all that much sophistication and sensor technology. If you engineer the center traveling gear to have a certain amount of spring centered lateral travel (so that it self seeks the center when there is no lateral loading) and then bevel the outside edges of the gear then you can make several things happen easily. First, the edge bevelling should prevent the gear trying to jump to the next gear until it is aligned with the safe landing region, you can preload that spring tension to a point that when the gear reaches the safe region it immediately jumps over to the new gear (remember, the gear is self centering thanks to the springs). That gives you mechanical safety should things get out of line...and it is very easy to measure the loading in those springs along with the positioning drive's position at all times to ensure you stay within safe limits.
However, the above would really only be a safety mechanism under normal circumstances. By incorporating position sensors (such as quadrature encoders) on the two shafts it is very easy for a transmission microcontroller to continuously monitor the position of both the engine shaft and the output shaft at all times, and if you know the precise position of both shafts at all times and you know which gear you are presently in then it should be able to very easily decide when it is safe to shift. Even if the input shaft from the engine were rotating at 10,000RPM that is only about 168 revolutions per second, or about one revolution per every 6 milliseconds -- at those sorts of rates it would be easy for even a very modest computer to keep up with the position of both shafts and the location of the gear selector, etc. (slow the engine down to a few thousand RPM and even a carefully engineered Arduino microcontroller could come close to managing the shifting (and there are much faster micros out there than the 16MIP 8-bit Atmel AVR series). By sensing position on both shafts you can even detect if slippage has occurred due to a fault and place the transmission into a limp home mode so that you can get the vehicle to a service center without being stranded, protecting the transmission from further unnecessary damage.
Computer gear and position sensors... you mean like the ones in modern transmissions and engines?
it needs a cam (well 2) to keep the gears lined up so they are always in the correct position at the interface
The problem i see with this after watching just 5 seconds of the transmission, you have to keep the input and output axles stationary to switch between gears.
So, at least 2 clutches needed and the "opportunity" to have catastrophic failure.
Very cool man, great design.
Great video Ross!
Advertises more merch than Logan Paul.
Ikr it's fucking anonying
Yep, unsubbed, what a cornball. You have to earn your shit in this lifetime, not shove it down people's throats while making ridiculous claims which are simply not true.
Another issue with the design. As the middle gear shifts and transitions from one gear to the gear next to it, it will load the corners of the teeth and cause them to break from the high stress loads
As you notice, the gears ramp up. The pinion only slides on the straight part of the gear. That's why shift timing is so important,, and even more important, that shift is fully engaged before the step comes back around. If properly timed, no corner loading. That would allow shifting under load.
just awesome . its the best idea i seeing in my field
Awesome design
this whole transmission would wear out faster than a clutch and take the engine with it
"buy my merch"
and yet nobody has 😥
Gear Down For What? Because your over selling it, let them find it on a website and just link it in the description, that's how most sell it
I'm way more impressed by the fact that you managed to 3D print a working ballscrew!
super man loved the mechanics
CVT Baby! :)
I wanted a video and got a stinking commercial.
That looks fun to get balanced
Wow, each gear set is offset so that not only can the stationary setting selector slide between each gear ratio setting, but also spin correctly.
Pretty ingenious!
Some of the responses here suggest that he was trying to say this is a great solution to all gearing requirements. He didn't say anything of the sort.
It's supposed to be interesting. It was interesting. It may not be very practical. He didn't say it was.
Thank you! This is exactly how I feel 🤗
4:28 Yeah, he literally bashes his own creation, and talks about its massive cons in his own video. Definitely not making any claims of being a catch all solution. Full respect for that
what he has done is created torque converter with cogs 😂😂😂😂
Ah sick. This is like the impossible cone shaped gears I’ve always had in mind, but this is actually possible
To build something like this is already a n achievement. Making it work is even way beyond that. Good job dude and good luck !
fewer moving merch plugs.
It would still need to be disconnected from the engine via a clutch
Robin Boots lol
Disconnecting from the engine can be done by having an input but no output gear at the beginning, the whole idea of the timing isn't so much of an issue because you could probably use electronics to tell you when to take the gear because if you know the speed and the position sensor can tell you when the timing point is hitting and the timing on the other you could just hop onto the gear at the right time
Calliass44 you're going to need to disconnect it between shifts, since the gears need to be stationary during shifting. Otherwise it will bind and put insanely large forces on all drivetrain components.
There is a speed difference between the gear sets, so even if you could get it to shift while there is a load connected to it (which you can't because it takes time to move the middle gear over) the engine is going to be forced down in RPM almost instantly (if nothing breaks) and the vehicle is going to forced to speed up almost instantly (Newton's third law and all, again if nothing breaks), making for a very jerky ride
I agree, essentially this works just like a dog box
Roel de Meulder no it does not, a dogbox can be shifted clutchlessly
This is fascinating
This reminds me of a cvt , but that works with a belt or chain. Pretty cool transmission
#3 no reverse
It is capable of reverse if I redesigned it, what I didn't do was assure that the numbers of teeth used would assure that I could get each member in the correct place to shift gears when spinning in a different direction, since the ramps for forward and reverse don't start in the same place.
Don't really need a reverse with a DC motor. Just reverse the motor.
Don't really need to shift gears with a DC motor.. :)
Both normal DC motors and brushless ones have downsides in their torque-rpm curves that transmissions can fix. A brushed motor has really poor torque at higher RPM, a BLDC hits a top speed limit.
Mum, DC or AC, yes, at least some vehicles with (electric) motors have 2-3 gears. The Siemens light rail cars have 3. I can hear them shift as part of our UTA Trax and Streetcar lines.
Conclusion: Just use a well designed and built CVT and move on.
4G12 this is in no way a CVT, there are set ratios to this transmission. It still “shifts”
4G12 just take a DSG
A CVT of similar torque and power rating would be much simpler, compact and lighter, other than the obvious advantage of infinite ratios within a given range.
It's sad that Jatco and Nissan have so heavily damaged the reputation of CVTs when in fact CVTs have been used reliably by heavy duty industrial machines for quite a while.
Cvt without belt
CVT's are really wonderful.
Although They have their own disadvantages.
Have you ever thought of trying to design a type of clock mechanism? All the unique gear designs you have I have faith you could make a mind blowing time piece.
you hands are working the clutch job dude
I wonder if I can manage to build this in LEGO :0
No you cant
I know you can I have seen your videos
I'll at least try ;)
Would have to be yuge
I did once, I put it on a Lego Technique rc.
And it looks like although the indexing of each gear ring is locked to their respective shaft, the centering isn't. So even if the selection problem was sorted out this would only be good for low speed applications, because it'd vibrate like hell otherwise.
You could fill more metal to the shorter side of the ring to correct local variations in center of mass.
Weights. You just need to balance them. This is not new technology.
I love that failed attempt to flip-throw the thing in the beginning of the video :D
In a transmission is not all about changing gears but also distributing loads and mechanical stress between gears to prolongue the life of the transimission and make the engine more efficient.
I like this.
Neutral?
this is a great invention
this actually works wonders !
It’s not the transmission that will fix everything, it’s the pursuit of something better.
Keep trying to build a better mousetrap!
I am an engineer, and I approve this message.
I’m not an engineer, just a creative person, and I approve this message
what about vibration?
Its all part of the experience.
@@outkast187
no experience required:
one gearshift ist terribly unbalanced and the radii are not constant - nor speed neither momentum won't be constant and the vibrations will destroy the whole machine.
Great idea !
At least the idea is good enough to generate a million clicks
That is really weird. I see a lot of issues with this design
Josh Lewis eccentric parts in rotation == vibration.
@@TheNefastor eh not really. Look at rotary engines.
This design however is a turd.
@@outkast187 rotary engines don't vibrate ?
@@TheNefastor nope, they are insanely smooth. Far smoother than a 4 cylinder. At 10,000 rpm they are still like sewing machines. I have several race rotarys, and run solid billet engine mounts directly on frame. Standard engines will rattle your teeth out. Rotarys feel like electric motors.
@@outkast187 then they must have eccentric parts. The vibration motor in cell phones and game console controllers uses an eccentric mass specifically because they cause a lot of vibrations. I know next to nothing on rotary engines but if they don't vibrate then they must be balanced somehow. Here we have a transmission where the arm will oscillate like crazy the faster you run it : that will vibrate until it breaks quickly.
Infinitely variable transmissions with positive input/output ratio do exist, in the fluid power domain. A variable displacement pump (piston with swashplate, or rotary vane with revolvable housing) can feed a piston or gerotor motor, and they can support high power with large drive ratios. These already exist in heavy agricultural equipment and small garden tractors.
Amazing!
I guess this is a cvt transmission with gears
I don't see how it can vary continuously. You need to disconnect the load some how to shift, and it's not variable has it still has a choice of fixed ratios
MiG21aholic why do we need this then? Useless I guess
TBH it is yes
this would cause massive vibrations while diving due to in balance in the shafts due to the gears not being centered
Chris Porche can be balanced with not to much hassle.
It would be pretty easy to counter balance the rampped step portions, by hollowing out parts of the hubs between the teeth and the axle. there will be some vibration during transition as the idle pinion swings back and forth between the ramps until it slides into the concentric part. That only lasts one rotation.
Thanks for sharing us this innovate gearbox..
It is good for light weight application.
It needs a marine style unloading switch. Like a mercruiser neutral cutout switch. But would shift really slow and be almost undriveable on the road but would still work.
It never run continuously or under any load. Proves nothing.
Dave M maybe because it's not a complete product it is just a design. Could you not listen throughout the entire 6-minute video?
its a tiny cheap ass 3d printed model not a full built engine
We will see if it fits my honda
I have a solution... One single gear. No transmission. Electric motors are the future and only need one gear.
Liso Campos but they have a really crappy high-end. An electric car with a transmission would tear every other electric car apart... Transmissions are our past present and future. You should really look into what a CVT is... if you would have put that on a electric engine, it would work 10 times better... one thing that really sucks about an electric car is that you can't really do any upgrades to it. Its stock speed is about as fast as going to go. Which electric cars usually aren't that fast but they are very quick. They will get up to speed really fast but they have absolutely no high-end speed. And last time I checked an electric car has yet to be fastest speed. Combustion engines work way too damn well to be out moded anytime soon
/b/ Tard Actually, the only reason that electric motors haven't taken over completely yet is the power requirements are too large. In theory an electric motor with a large enough energy supply can beat out an ICE.
Boom
1FireyPhoenix so what you're saying is that you need more power to do the same as a gas engine? What about just adding a bit more displacement to the gas engine, and it beat out the electric one already
Tyronicus Maximus Ha. That's funny. More power? More capacity. We already know that an ICE is rudely inefficient, with all gasoline and diesels running at about 40% of the full amount of energy stored in the bonds of carbon based fuels. It isn't that electric motors require more energy, in which they don't, but we don't have the capacity to store the electric potential required yet. Once we do, electric vehicles will be able to single handedly beat out ICEs
You're a real gear head.
There’s a 3rd problem you’ve overlooked, balance. It could be overcome by adding balance weights, but as is with offset gears, it’d shake itself to pieces.
U can change a dirtbikes gears without using the clutch.
Alex V-i-P ewe can most cars without using the clutch too.
YEW! can change the gear on a bicycle without a clutch to.
Matt Patterson xicycles even
hahahahahahaha
Alex V-i-P, dirtbikes have a clutch, it is triggered slightly before the gears get shifted.
Practically this will not work properly, try to make real prototypes to prove me wrong
brilliant !
This one does it!
you do realize they already have these that actually work ahaha
proof?
Dominic Mammone I think he means full variable transmissions, like a cvt for example. Audi uses them for the Q3 model, as well as the toyota for the Prius.
Mandernach Luca normal cvt's not ones like in the video
Dominic Mammone Yes, as i said, i think he means fully variable transmissions in general (the ones that actually work ;D), for example a cvt transmission in a scooter.
yes but normal CVT uses push belts not gears..... the problem with push belts the require high clamping force to compensate engine to drive train from slipping thus reducing efficiency. whereas using gears requires no clamping force and does not slip but require more advance engineering for designing such transmission
You can even improve more this concept:
- compress green gears in cones and slide the yellow gear between two cones
- you could shift gears at every given time
-this could be something in between gear treansmission and cvt transmission...
Good luck figuring out how to hob make a constantly variable gear tooth count into that conical gear...
There's a reason CVTs use belts and not gears.
Fewer not less!
There is one inherent problem with this design, which is there even when you never change gear:
Given that green gear 1 spins with constant speed, then green gear 2 will _not_ spin with a constant speed. It will vary slightly in speed (sinus curve) during one turn. This is due to the gears being not concentric to their respective axes. It means that you will get lots of "rotational vibrations" around the spinning axis.
Just dont let it explode. My design turned my variable valve timer into a bomb of weed whacker. It crushed the crank shaft and sent me hurtling 100 miles a hour down a road on my mountain bike.
Cool thing is: if electronically controlled the transmission could detect it the timing was off, pull the pinion out of engagement with the two shafts, perhaps have some auxillary motors to retime the two shafts, the reengage the pinion
Immediate downsides: 1. You have to turn more mass, since all the gears need to turn at the same time to be aligned properly. Less energy efficient. 2. Teeth would definitely see more wear. 3. Loss of responsiveness, there would be lag time because it would have to wait until the gear is aligned properly to shift, and has to shift fast enough to move to the next gear entirely before the rotation falls out of alignment.
I actually think some tapers/angles to the teeth at certain points might help with shifting though. It could help to more easily guide the gear with less friction, but would mean weaker teeth.
When I first saw the thumbnail I was like "so you require A clutch to change gear" mind blown😱😱
they have had a continuously variable transmission out for years now. some cars use it but you see it mostly on progressive drive lawn tractors.(stick on the right fender of the tractor, its the kind of stick without locking notches)
Looking carefully at the driven shaft on the right, it is clear that, when the driving shaft is rotating at a constant rate, the driven shaft operates at an oscillating rate. This means constant vibration of the car as it speeds up and slows down several times each second.
Pretty cool, with an electronic sensor to know exactly when the gears are aligned and a very fast selector like a hydraulic piston or compressed air piston, this might shift neatly while running
MOAR CLUTCH!!! MOAR CLUTCH!!!!
Seems like a fancy bicycle derailleur system
Another weakness of this design is that one cannot choose a gear directly, one must go up/down sequentially. With standard car transmission, one can jump between gears.
Need to keep evolving!
Super cool
I have spent a long time thinking about why transmissions are so complicated. Then I recently started looking for a new car and stumbled across the gen2 Prius. It's hybrid gearbox is amazing. It only has 1 cvt gear, no clutch, no reverse, no starter motor, no belts or friction parts. It changes the gear ratio by changing electrical resistance on different parts of a planet gear. There are some videos showing how it works on RUclips, i recommend watching a few.
I would really like to see you try and build something similar :)
You are a genius
Wow.... brilliant
awesome !
This design will produce relatively large fluctuations in output torque and velocity with each revolution due to the eccentric gears. Although torque and velocity are calculated based on the number of gear teeth, it is assumed that the radii are constant for a given number of teeth (and a known diametral pitch). If the gears are eccentric then the radii from the axes of rotation will not remain constant and therefore the effective gear ratio will vary with rotation resulting in fluctuations in velocity and torque. As the effective radius of the input gear becomes shorter it will have greater mechanical advantage over the output gear which has an increasing effective radius resulting in greater torque at the cost of velocity.
Not sure if it’s been commented already, but another big issue is that the ratio is not constant for any pair of wheels that are off centered. At constant engine speed, the output would vary all the time.
I'm interested in seeing this further implemented
I would love to apply this to a motorcycle powered go kart for a track, keep it up
I'm looking positive. With a good timing mech, it sould work.
so this is basically a sequel transmission
amazing.. my mechanical engineering itch scratched for today.
There's a possibility that the VCT can function if the given gear sets to change torque ratio are disconnected in a manner to where they remain in-line such that the central gear can always link into place to the outer set, springs or a hydraulic control system could allow for that and gears with play can do such, but it will be difficult to figure out the timing and such to allow the clutchless shift
I've been down this road as an engineering student before. Didn't get as far as you because of the lack of CAD and 3d printing capabilities but came up with similar concepts.
CVT is the best style of transmission because the engine can maintain an "ideal" RPM
if you spring loaded the screw shaft on either end to allow float and possibly also beveled the intermediate gear you could manually change gears without using mechanical or computer control under load.
So now everyone here is a transmission expert.