@@kittenwizard4703 Imagine how fun it'd be to "talk" to an AI about your future job. I get the joke, but soon enough we'll probably have to deal with "recruiters" hallucinations.
So Amazon management prefers the in office environment. Real people, actual face to face conversations, being able to see things first hand. Maybe people should return to buying their shit from actual shops which have all the same benefits. Just a thought!
If you haven't noticed, in a lot of segments, they don't have 'brand name' items anymore, it's all cheap import junk with randomly made up "5 random consonants glued together" brands, because the real brands have already got fed up dealing with them. They know the smart people that want quality stuff will buy it from places other than mzon
i was called back to the office for "face-to-face" conversations. they're exactly. and i mean down to the the t...exactly the same as virtual meetings. there is *no* benefit for me nor for the company. there *is* a benefit for my local mass transit op and parking racket.
I'm not sure why people need to physically come to a place unless they are making an actual product where an actual thing of value is to be sold and service and hospitality anything where your touching something to do the job. Otherwise your employer wants to monitor you more or worst case it's just a strait up power trip and that needs to regulated against, in my opinion which doesn't matter but imagine being forced to drag your ass through traffic twice a day so some gray haired bald phat phucc can annoy you while your doing your job.
Have fun going into the office and still having to interact with coworkers all virtually because they are in different offices. Then having to wear headphones all day because of “open office” layout and not knowing anyone in the office. Err, I mean fostering collaboration or whatever.
Indeed. Many who are in the same room as me at the office, don't even work similar fields, but are still on calls all day, and rather loud. I'd have much fewer problems going to the office if my team was there in the same room, and no, or few, others in the same room.
I work like 95% of my time remote. And sometimes I have the desire to come more to the office... and then I'm subjected to the same things you described and I re-learn my lesson of why remote is better.
@@bargainbincatgirl6698 Totally understand. I miss the office environment occasionally, but have learned to go to a coffee shop at least once a week and take headphones. It’s a pretty similar experience to being in a modern office and helps add some variety into WFH. I have enough of them around me to go at least 2 months without repeats or driving very far if I want.
@@defeqel6537 The last gig I had at a big corp, there was an office specifically for various tech/software engineers, but none of the people I worked with on a day to day basis were there other than me and my boss. Had a genuine globally distributed team. Eventually just went full time at home. This was in the early 2010s.. so definitely well before Covid.
Gotta love being stuck in meetings while also having to sit near people who are also in completely different meetings which makes it a pain in the ass to hear your own meeting.
This will start the process we will the have a meeting for preprocessing and cost benifit analysis. After which you will be required to fill out a form 277.3c-9 rev3 and submit it within three bussiness days to HR. After which you will get a response in two to three months
I had a manager at Intel use that line about "we need to operate like a startup" a few years ago, and people literally laughed in his face and said "when we each get 10 to 15% of shares of the entire company, we will work like a startup, until then, that's the dumbest idea I've ever heard in my life" - and we never heard that line again. It was priceless!
@@skilz8098 Noice!! The worst part was he was actually a pretty good manager in general, but I think he spent every waking hour he wasn't at work reading "how to be the best manager" books, and bought way too far into their plans, rather than, you know, using common sense. He left and became a manager at Apple, so I'm sure he's making way more than me, so maybe I should start reading those books too
These CEOs are living in 1994. There’s literally no reason we need to waste commute time, gas, and push high-paid tech workers closer to city centers while people who actually need to be in person like teachers, janitors, road workers and utilities are forced to buy housing 1 hour+ from their jobs
Yes there is. Commercial real estate is worthless if no one is working in it. And you can’t use worthless real estate as collateral for loans. These companies don’t care that their employees are happier, more productive, get to spend more time with their family. Not to mention that it’s better for the environment. It’s simply more profitable to have an office space. Its value goes up over time and you can use it to get fat loans. It’s sad, but that’s how it is. If it were up to me, employers wouldn’t be allowed to force people back into the office if they can do all of their job duties online.
I love the way my company does the WFH policy. They have an office. You can go to it. Don't want to? You can WFH every day of every week. Got too many distractions at home some day? Construction going on in your building? You can go into the office, there will be a desk for you.
@@mikemadsen7926This is my structure currently (I’m a remote contractor at LinkedIn) I live 5-10 mins from the office and can go in whenever I want. I usually go in once or twice a week. I enjoy working from home in the morning, going into the office for (free) lunch, and socializing in the afternoon. My whole team is remote and they live further from the office so I don’t see them often, but I have other friends and colleagues I connect with in the office, which has actually helped my work go faster many times. That said, I absolutely treasure my WFH days, I would suffer if I were in the office 3+ days per week from 9am every day.
Return to office or get fired is the quickest way to get rid of all of your qualified workforce and leaves you with those that can't be bothered looking for another job.
Current employee (AWS side of the house), I saw this when it was sent internally. Was already warned that if I move I need to live near a major office or I have to fill out that form. NGL - likely not going to be staying. I know of others that have already left because of the first RTO edict. This will accelerate the brain drain that’s already occurring.
From the outside looking in this just looks like they wanna reduce staff without layoffs and of course it works cause people don't want to commute and work in the office for no reason.
To work in the valley, you are almost forced to live a couple hours away to find affordable housing. I made it 18 months in San Mateo with 2+ hour commutes each way before deciding to move back to Ohio. The Valley sucks in terms of quality of life.
What city did you work in? That’s crazy, San Mateo is pretty in the middle of the bay, unless you worked in like south San Jose but even that probably wouldn’t be more than an hour
RTO has backfired where I work. People just put in the minimal effort. Nothing gets done anymore. We also have teams all over the map and have been that way well before the coof.
I'm calling BS, it's a known fact you did far less at home than you do in the office. Then only difference is you have to make your 2 hours worth of work look like 8 at home wheras in the office you just do 2 hours worth of work and F off all the same.
@@odie2763 Multiple studies have shown that productivity stayed the same or increased with work from home. Happy employees with a good work life balance will be more productive than forcing them to deal with traffic, parking, and the drama of the office.
@@odie2763 it's a known fact that youtuber user RogueA.I. does less work at home? because studies are not decided on this regarding the general workforce, with many reporting better productivity working from home, and many less. the only thing that seems agreed on is that hybrid workers are more productive than both. what's also well reported is the immense backlash from workers in workplaces that had WFH but then tried to force people back to work.
@@odie2763 not true lol people will talk to their colleague for an hour, go to lunch, go to the bathroom, go to the vending machine, make coffee, etc.
@@GerinoMorn The most logical way is if the job you're supposed to be doing is getting done. Though it seems in big tech companies, people are just hired to fill seats and/or build empires.
Remember people: CEOs are glorified accountants, and most often luddites. I think the ship has mostly sailed on expecting in-office work to be standard. They'll have to pay a premium for that now, or face a labor pool that will reject their jobs on offer.
@@xExekut3x Corporations make deals with local governments to build offices there. They get huge tax breaks based in the number of jobs. It's a very common practice.
One of the most cracked developers I know actually quit before starting their job in 2 weeks at AWS because of the RTO mandate. He was so hyped about working remote for Amazon, but he didn't even try to bargain for remote work as he knew he couldn't show proof he's worth a remote work exemption and even if he did, it would only be a matter of time before some other bs nulled that exemption
It's too late, the genie is already outside of the bottle. It'll be really hard for any company to hire if they require full time in the office. A lot of people I know just refused such offers(before even talking about $).
@@pavlinggeorgiev Then they get the desperate people without options. Personally, I wouldn't consider a job offer that required me to regularly come to the office anymore. A couple of times a month is fine, but not every week. Now, i'm not god's gift to programming, but given options i'll just pick the remote ones.
@@pavlinggeorgiev Not everybody needs to. Just enough people for them to realize they're losing quality candidates who actually can refuse job offers out of inconvenience, such as people who already have a job and are just looking for a better option (which is, I believe, a majority of candidates). They're also going to have a way harder time poaching candidates from other employers who offer better WFH options - most people will want a significant incentive to give up WFH benefits if they're already employed. If you desperately need a job and take anything you can get, that's fair, you'll take a bad deal to keep your head above water. But a bad deal is still a bad deal, and you'll probably jump ship the second someone offers you something better, and you sure as shit won't have much loyalty to an employer who is ripping you off because they know you're desperate. And then Amazon will either have to offer better incentives to stay, or lose them to people who will offer them better incentives. And WFH is definitely an incentive.
@@pavlinggeorgiev It's not just about convenience. WFH saves a lot of expenses - transportation, lunch, a couple of hours you could use to make money for a 2nd job, etc. And contrary to peoples' believes the software industry is still supply driven. Nobody cares about amazon if he/she can pay the bills/mortgage and still save some $ while working from home, being with his/her kids and having a good work/life balance.
Quiet firing is so stupid because a large portion of people who volunteering quit will be the good employees who can find a new job easier. If u are terrible at your job, but somehow work at Amazon making bank, you are not going to quit your job without a solid backup plan
Look. If you work at a computer all day and they won't let you work from home. Like if 90% of you day to day interactions are through the desktop then if they won't let you work from home. You really should just not work there at all.
Employees wouldn't have any problem with overworking or even commuting for an hour if corpo jobs had some level of job security and stability, which like you said is more or less caused by their own dumb decisions that are fueled by unparalleled greed.
@@3_smh_3 Overworking and long commuting are symptoms poor labor practices and greed so no, employees would have a problem even with security and stability, it actually contradicts itself because if you had both then overworking and long commuting shouldn't be a thing.
California’s tax problems stem from Prop 13 - boomers purchased houses 50 years ago, their tax liabilities are capped in equity regimes @ 5% current value. Property taxes are now so low, that the local municipalities must force other taxes on residents to pay for roads, parks, school, etc., and revenue that would normally come from property taxes, must come from other tax regimes, like income and other taxes on residents. Doubly important, the ownership class lives elsewhere and pays none of those extra taxes, the renter class pays insane rental rates, and pays all of the taxes, and reaps minimal community benefits. This is one of a dozen problems in California, but the ownership class benefits, so nothing will change.
Considering that personal property tax is the most evil of the types of taxes, you said nothing useful about why california is bad. Just don't try to get that much in tax money in the first place
Also Amazon: Top down mandates about how individual teams should operate and reams of people required to enforce said mandates. Because that's how startups work!
Honestly, if I actually had a team at the office, I'd go there more often, but my team is already spread all over, and I'm the only one working at our office.
This. Besides a small startup company, I've been at multiple large corporate offices where I spent all day on virtual meetings because our team was spread out over multiple physical locations. The only reason it was worth coming into the office was for the free lunch, but the commute was insufferable. Two hours driving every day. Literally the only extra bonus I got from being in an office was to make my manager happy, and to have the privilege of walking past the big office printer I never used. It was a giant waste of time, energy, and office space. If 100% of your team isn't in the same physical building, you're already fully remote. Just let people choose if they want to work from home or work from the office.
For real... I started a new job two months ago... two senior developers come to office once per week and our engineering manager works from another country. Newcomers are expected to be at the office from now on. I will get through my trial period and then bring it up. There is no use of me being at the office even as a new guy if my seniors are not at the office anyways to teach me.
I think the dumbest thing about hybrid work was the meetings during in-office days. All those magical "water cooler moments" are kinda hard to have when your entire team is constantly in various, often separate meetings.
I'd love the scenario where all the employees that want to work remotely just quit and get another job and Amazon is thus shitting themselves big time.
Can we all agree to double our asking price if required to work in office? Even 1 day per week means our bosses lose all their leverage with hiring other people.
the company then will hire other people because doubling price just because different working at office is nonsense. many people will want to replace it because searching job today is hard. if they dont work they dont have income to fund life
@@doublekamui Where will they hire from? Requiring in office work shrinks the talent pool dramatically, especially for companies that aren't household name brands
I work for their obvious competitor... Currently we have a 2-days a week office days. However, with my team dispersed and me being the only one in HQ, I stay at home. Badges arent tracked per person anyways, or atleast I think so. And my remote manager/teammates could careless. Havent walked in, in months. But they're trying to relocate people in various office to HQ. And expand the days as well. Congested traffic due to implants means more road time, but thats the benefit of going to the office right? Ill get away with staying at home while I can
The company I work for just announced that we are returning to office with a rigid hybrid model. I finished my interviews with another company and waiting for my official offer. I'm never going to the office unless it's something I want to do.
Imagine if you lived in a small, remote town at 2,000 miles away from the office and had to quit your job. May as well get an accounting degree if your one of those people. Maybe offer some tech services online as a side gig.......
lol what? There are a ton of companies out there that are very happy hiring remote employees especially if they are highly qualified ex-FAANG. If this person wants a job and isn’t already super wealthy relative to his small town, they can get a job just fine or go into consulting. Hopefully you were just being sarcastic
@@playea123 sarcasm, yes. there is some truth to my statement as well. Why isn't it wise to select your path based on what your local (state) market dictates to you? Example: what do all small towns have? Banks, loan offices, etc.... most tech jobs require a "show me" approach to hiring. A CAP Data Analytics cert would match very nicely with that type of business degree. What if other companies follow Amazon's lead? The market is already competitive now. It would be more so! Thankfully, you have that Accounting background to pay your bills, right? Small towns are not booming with tech opportunities. Especially, southern towns.
You're seriously speaking to like 1 person out of a million who's ever experienced that in a millenia. Your comparison has such a low ratio it's dumb to even consider that a reason for remote work. People in the phillipines are staying up late to do remote work in the US, as well as the rest of area's in the world and you're making the excuse of "waaaaaaa I can't come to the office because I'm magically 2000 miles away from the office". They know you're 2000 miles away dork. They're not forcing you to go anywhere.
@@Nogo-Bronco ehh I see what you are saying but some companies have actually been wise enough to totally remove the expense of maintaining a physical office and have been hiring nationally. I’ve worked for such companies for 3 years now. My point is that the FAANGs and other VC dependent companies are somewhat in a special spot where the RTO mandates are really mostly about cutting costs via layoffs due to high interest rates. All the talk about productivity and culture is a bunch of BS. If you want to work remotely, there are companies out there that will happily let you do that. You just gotta target those in your job search and understand that they likely will pay a lot less than FAANG but you are saving a lot of money by not have to RTO.
“Only two options, fires or hires.” Not true, actually. When I was at Amazon, my manager got demoted to an IC on my own team and my skip level became our manager. Staggering display of public humiliation.
my favorite part is in the afternoon when everyone is playing board games or putt putt golf or whatever tf and making it impossible to get any work done that's fine, but if i decide to go home at that time then i get a talking to. returning to the office is great.
The ruler story reminds me of a similar algorithm that was trying to determine if a photo was a bedroom, eventually they figured out it wasn't looking for a bed but if the windows had curtains that was the strongest influence 😂
WFH is great for naturally effective people, allows them to save more time and optimize in ways that don't work in an office usually. It's bad for people who can't keep themselves productive and middle-management roles that aren't essential; the former needs constant carrot + stick, the latter needs punching bags to feel important.
One has to wonder how many of Amazon’s investors are also heavily invested in commercial real estate. One also has to wonder how many of those investors are pressuring the likes of Amazon, an employment market leader, to spearhead the shift back to the office.
For some reason for any project or hobby outside of work, you just hop into a discord channel and hang out and bond with the random people. And in the corporate world every simple question becomes a 1 hour teams meeting 5-10 business days from now. And somehow the fix to this issue is getting everyone back into office to sit in teams meetings with the one guy who's working from some other office across the country.
Great. And the housing within commute of the Amazon dev offices are probably insanely expensive. So all that high salary goes into the house which is probably the same house a plumber bought 50 years ago.
If you are forced to go into an office, just be 50-100% less effective on the days you are in. 2 can play at the game mr employers. I'm doing all I can to avoid work on the 1 day a week when I'm in the office just to make a point :D
I don't have to try to be less productive in the office. With the noise, interruptions, and distractions, I am less productive. Not to mention that the time I spend commuting means I have less hours in the day. At home, working a little late to finish something up is easy since I have more free time in the day.
@@doublekamui Because a lot of remote workers don't even live near the office and would need to completely reallocate their lives. You know, stuff like selling the house, splitting your children from their friends, transfer them to a new school, loss of secondary income because the wife needs to leave her job. etc. pp. Even if all that isn't the case, you'll now need to deal with traffic to and from work, which is simply time that you now spend unproductive, which in remote is productive time for you. That's unpaid extra hours of time lost. If you work remote, your life structures do not revolve around your workplace. Changing from remote to on premise work means you'll have to restructure your life completely, not because of a good reason, but because someone wants it that way. If your work doesn't require attendance to create better quality work, it's just a political decision that will reduce the quality of life for the remote worker. Remote workers are, by all reports I've read, usually more productive.
it's like the wisest man ever to live has said "There is no bad work, bad is having to work" - S. Madruga (only Latin Americans will get this reference)
Commute really is the offset that makes WFH so compelling. Yes, communicating when everyone is remote is harder. This is true. What is also true is that I'm much more happy to spend 30 minutes compensating for that rather than spending 2 hours in traffic each day.
@@neruneri it's not just the time spent commuting, it's also the time spent *preparing* to commute. idk bout you, but i don't necessarily shower in the morning anymore since i don't have to commute. i don't have to spend so much time washing/ironing pants for an in person job. i dont have to spend time getting gas, i dont have to scarf down breakfast, i dont have to do a ton of things that I'd have to get up super early to do before commuting. there's so much undocumented overhead (bc why would you document it?) underlying a commute that employers just dgaf about. 😢
I'm an Amazon (AWS) employee and wanted to weigh in. My manager is in Texas and I'm in Seattle, they wanted to force him to move to Seattle so instead he's leaving my team for another team within the company, but he didn't want to leave, we didn't want him to leave, and the org didn't even want him to leave.. The Business at the C-suite and Director level didn't want to make an exception, so now we're losing our manager of the last few years even though it's been fine and we've been effective while he's been in Texas. For stocks, distribution of RSUs is 5% at your one year mark, 15% at your 2 year mark, then 20% every 6 months (for my initial grant at least) which is effectively 40% a year. We don't get options at least at the IC level, so it's marked as W2 income and I have to pay taxes on it, not capital gains, just regular income tax. I think the meme is they do this because if you leave after 2 years, they've only paid you 20% of the stock comp vs. 50% of the stock comp.
no no, you only get a salary decrease (adjustment in HR terms :))))) for WFH, not a salary increase for working in office LOL that's the corpo mentality
I hired someone who used to work at AWS as a data scientist. She said she liked it, but that her job was building models for external companies and she didn't like having to learn a new company's data every 2 weeks. She maybe didn't want to talk too much shit about her past company, though, which never looks good during an interview. Another past colleague still works at Amazon as a data scientist. His one and only goal in life when I met him was to become a data scientist at Amazon. He stuck with it, got an offer with great pay, survived the layoffs, but then had his salary decreased by like $40k a year (still gets paid better than I do, though). The last time I talked to him he told me the better pay is not worth it anymore, it's way too competitive and stressful.
No it's just a world where Amazon hired way too many remote workers😂 some of these people were working two jobs for two different companies at the same time😂 easy way to do layoffs of jobs that didn't produce anything
Amazon just took over the doctor's office we take our kids too. The most horrible experience ever. On top of having insurance they make you get a subscription to get service from the clinic. The quality of the doctor experience has gone down. We had to look for a new doctor for our kids.
seems like because of the tougher than usual market.. they're taking advantage of it.. so of course people that have moved into lower cost areas or open areas.. will have to weigh the pain of finding a job or just moving and dealing with it. I'm genuinely surprised there's no competition that's perfectly cool with remote work.
It sounds like a manager's games. Do some big change that has little effect on the productivity output, but you can show that you are busy. Unfortunately the state of economy and job market currently allows the employers to force their rules on employees. That will backfire, cause people will remember the treatment and leave as soon as situation improves.
I am switching from work laptop to the private laptop, too. I do not want to cross-pollute anything between those two realms. Also: separate phone for work and private.
We in Europe agree on it because we have good labor laws. We still have work from home, minimum of 25 payed holiday days, and no bs abut sick days. Also, a max of 40 hours a week and a living wage. I dont mind having a different seat once a week in the office. I get to meet new people and see different parts of the office.
I`ve been working remotely for 10 years now. Worked like this even before it was cool. And i can tell you that i like to go to the office to be able to interact with other people face to face. There is no comparison face to face interaction vs teams meetings. Quick way to burnout. Your home becoming your work doesnt give you that transition from work to home. It`s so smooth that it feels like you`re constantly at work. Also you have your second boss nearby if your wife is stay-at-home. Every time you have a moment to breathe she`ll barge in "oh you`re not doing anything? can you take out the trash or jump quickly to grocery store for something?". I`m convinced that anyone who will only accept WFH setup just hasnt done it long enough. Go for a hybrid setup like 3/2 or 4/1. That seems like a best of both worlds.
not that it matters, since your problem is that your wife is giving you chores to do during work hours and not that youre at home, but ive been doing remote for 13years and ill never accept a job that requires me to go to office even one day a week (unless i get into a real bad situation where i wont have any other option ofcourse...)
I work on a team that gathers data for machine vision algorithms. Just walk out tech was most certainly not based on Indians watching people shop to estimate their bill. They were labeling data sets. The algorithms require labeled images of people shopping to improve accuracy. Amazons plan at scale was not to hire millions of Indians to watch millions of people shop…
RE: the ruler and 'there's a lot we don't understand yet'. Actually we do understand it. We are actually very good at object detection in images and it is very well known how to do it correctly. The fact that not all companies using it get it correct, doesn't mean we don't know how. The biggest problem in almost all AI workloads is quality training data. If you skimp on that you will get bad results. The second biggest problem is that the output looks fantastic and they get rolled out without adequate testing with real life data.
Just to clarify. The ruler example is not generative ai, its image classification. That kinda tech has been around for 10 years and ignited the initial AI boom in the early to mid 2010s. GenAI is about content generation, not classification. It is a completely different set of tools and architecture.
The bit about the Bay Area being terrible to live in on SWE salaries is very real. Try to take your kids to literally any park and it will be so crowded, both with other families and a surprising amount of homeless people. Wildlife preserves will refuse people on weekends because there isn't enough parking. Theft basically has no consequences, so if you can't park your car in a garage then your windows will be smashed regularly. The list goes on and on.
The vesting schedule rant is very misleading as they way Amazon does it is actually beneficial to employees. You get an offer with say 100k bonus first year, 100k bonus seconds year, 100k bonus third year, 100k bonus fourth year. the first year its 20k stock/80k cash, second year is 40k stock/60k cash, third its 80k stock/20k cash and 4th is 80k stock/20k cash. This is better than even distribution because it allows the stock portion to grow - if stock value grows 10% each year, employee gets extra 20 - 30 k compared to the even distribution while Amazon pays out the same. Also, if you want to max stock, you can always buy Amazon stock with the cash bonus you received, win-win-win situation. Please stop bashing it.
Is there a vesting period on the stock? That's the real question. If the stock bonus requires vesting, that means you can't sell it. That means cash bonuses are always better. Stock bonuses cost the company far less, and giving stock to employees with a contract that prevents them from selling will push the stock price up, which benefits the company. Also, I've seen contracts that require you to outright buy the "bonus" stock if you haven't vested during that time period. Some of those contracts get pretty nasty. It's basically a way to guarantee that employees don't get the bonuses they thought they'd get. Cash is always better than stocks. If you can sell the stock, why does the company give you stock instead of cash? Stock options are usually a trap, and interior to cash bonuses in the majority of cases. If you're going to offer bonuses, then sure, offering more stock early gives it time to vest, but it also guaranteed that the company avoids paying most of the bonus, because the average career tenure at a software job is ~2 years, so the company ditches on paying most of your bonus if you don't stay for 5 years, which almost no one does.
@@alexlowe2054 technically you receive all stock up front and vest in the increments described above. You can sell it all vested these intervals. Stock compensation is better for 3rd and 4th year because it appreciates since day 1 and cash doesnt. You earn more money overall, you lose nothing. There is no downside, there is only upside. (As long as the stock value goes up every year) Another thing you seem to be confusing Stock Options with RSUs. Amazon offers RSUs, stock options are only available to early stage startups and CEOs and these are tricky mechanisms.
@@alexlowe2054 Kinda? The vesting period is every year for the first 2 years, then after that 6 months for half and 6 months for the other half of your stock in years 3 and 4/5. Until around the 4th year which you fall off a cliff if you don't get promoted.
600B later and they STILL can't add a side door option on Amazon delivery. It's a 30s HTML fix. Just add a Select tag on the radio buttons between Front Door and Back Door. It's crazy
"What's Azure's selling point over AWS"? um, IT'S NOT AMAZON... you know, the one with all the awful work culture stuff that the article is about. I don't know why anyone would WANT to use AWS or support Amazon.
Why would any companies care about this in the slightest. No one’s asking you, a single person, for your opinion about AWS, it’s about what companies think.
@@colinstu then how is your point in FAVOR of azure "it's not amazon", but then you change your stance and say yeah both are bad? obviously big companies are bad, but that wasn't the discussion, you said one is better than the other and i say the opposite, microsoft is by far the worst of them and azure can suck it
I've only seen one W when it comes to working for a company in California. I had a buddy who was a regional sales rep with a Midwest territory for a company in CA. He got to live in the Midwest but collect a California company.
The thing that all CEOs fail to mention consistently, which unexpectedly enouch is the same with politicians, is to mention what happens if that plan fails? Will the CEO lose his job? Will there ever be actual leadership responsibility? They constantly mandate measureables for everybody else but themselves. Ridicoulous
The plan won't fail because Amazon realized it hired way too many remote workers🎉 it's the thing that everybody's missing🎉 they can lose 50% of these people and they won't even notice🎉 some of these people working two jobs for two different companies at the same time😂 and at the very best your job was going to be outsourced to India or the Philippines😂
Someone I know at Amazon complains about the RTO situation, not because she doesn't like going into the office, but because of the whole agile situation has made finding desk seats quite difficult if you don't show up at 8AM (plenty of high tops available, but lots of people need those second monitors!)
FIY, if you have Blue Cross Blue Shield health insurance in Montana, they are a mutual insurer like State Farm - not for profit mission, no stock, owned by the customers, not investors.
Make sure you're highly specialized because otherwise your job's just going to go to India or it's going to be in an office😂 it's not very difficult to see the future of the industry
Our company is doing a very similar thing. Over the past 2 years the company really has invested into employee happiness. We've come from no homeoffice before covid, to homeoffice to 2 days homeoffice with flexible days. Soon we'll be going back to 1 day of homeoffice which will be fixed to a friday (or if you don't take the HO, you either get 0.25 vacation days). I'm really looking forward to see how the company will change. As for myself, I doubt it will be any positive change whatsoever.
This is definitely going to trickle down to other companies and industries. Just great news, the work from home experiment was nice while it lasted, worked too, but who really cares about that.
I left AWS not too long ago. To clarify on the stock compensation described at 7:50 - yes its a 5/15/40/40 spread, BUT in the first 2 years the shortfall is made up for (almost exactly) in the form of the sign-on bonus. The TC doesn't change very much unless the stock price shoots up.
correction on stock vesting, google doesn't have a 1 year cliff. it's actually front-loaded and starts vesting immediately (after about 1.5mo of start date)
It’s only 5 days a week. They can still work from home 2 days a week
Hahaha, hey at least they are getting paid unlike the delivery drivers that work for Amazon
This hits a bit too close to home. I slept 3 hours last night.
hahahahahha i laughed so hard!!
Lol
With no tax on overtime they might even make more during the weekend than the rest of the week.
An Amazon recruiter reached out to me and described the role as “3 days in office followed by 2 days in office” 💀💀
lmaoooo
impossible
😂
Its not a real recruiter it's an AI recruiter, they were all replaced
@@kittenwizard4703 Imagine how fun it'd be to "talk" to an AI about your future job. I get the joke, but soon enough we'll probably have to deal with "recruiters" hallucinations.
So Amazon management prefers the in office environment. Real people, actual face to face conversations, being able to see things first hand. Maybe people should return to buying their shit from actual shops which have all the same benefits. Just a thought!
Andy jassy revealed
If you haven't noticed, in a lot of segments, they don't have 'brand name' items anymore, it's all cheap import junk with randomly made up "5 random consonants glued together" brands, because the real brands have already got fed up dealing with them. They know the smart people that want quality stuff will buy it from places other than mzon
@@gorak9000 True. Amazon is not different from an e-bay. Full of pirate products.
i was called back to the office for "face-to-face" conversations. they're exactly. and i mean down to the the t...exactly the same as virtual meetings. there is *no* benefit for me nor for the company. there *is* a benefit for my local mass transit op and parking racket.
I'm not sure why people need to physically come to a place unless they are making an actual product where an actual thing of value is to be sold and service and hospitality anything where your touching something to do the job. Otherwise your employer wants to monitor you more or worst case it's just a strait up power trip and that needs to regulated against, in my opinion which doesn't matter but imagine being forced to drag your ass through traffic twice a day so some gray haired bald phat phucc can annoy you while your doing your job.
Have fun going into the office and still having to interact with coworkers all virtually because they are in different offices. Then having to wear headphones all day because of “open office” layout and not knowing anyone in the office.
Err, I mean fostering collaboration or whatever.
Indeed. Many who are in the same room as me at the office, don't even work similar fields, but are still on calls all day, and rather loud. I'd have much fewer problems going to the office if my team was there in the same room, and no, or few, others in the same room.
I work like 95% of my time remote. And sometimes I have the desire to come more to the office... and then I'm subjected to the same things you described and I re-learn my lesson of why remote is better.
@@bargainbincatgirl6698 Totally understand. I miss the office environment occasionally, but have learned to go to a coffee shop at least once a week and take headphones. It’s a pretty similar experience to being in a modern office and helps add some variety into WFH. I have enough of them around me to go at least 2 months without repeats or driving very far if I want.
@@defeqel6537 The last gig I had at a big corp, there was an office specifically for various tech/software engineers, but none of the people I worked with on a day to day basis were there other than me and my boss. Had a genuine globally distributed team.
Eventually just went full time at home. This was in the early 2010s.. so definitely well before Covid.
Gotta love being stuck in meetings while also having to sit near people who are also in completely different meetings which makes it a pain in the ass to hear your own meeting.
Amazon is the worst place to work at. I'm not even going to waste time typing out the rest of the message
🤣
nah tell us why
@@hwapyongedouard Amazon A.I.: "Yes, do tell us why..." 😆
You need to work more places? I work there and it sucks, but there are PLENTY of worse employment experiences
I made 450K last year at AWS
“We want less bureaucracy” “you need to file document A55B if you want to work remote”
This will start the process we will the have a meeting for preprocessing and cost benifit analysis. After which you will be required to fill out a form 277.3c-9 rev3 and submit it within three bussiness days to HR. After which you will get a response in two to three months
Why would anyone ever want to work for the Vogon Incorporated ?
@@joelluedtke8680 Amazon failed to file document "FU" to request that I return to the office, so I fired their ass.
I had a manager at Intel use that line about "we need to operate like a startup" a few years ago, and people literally laughed in his face and said "when we each get 10 to 15% of shares of the entire company, we will work like a startup, until then, that's the dumbest idea I've ever heard in my life" - and we never heard that line again. It was priceless!
Glad people had guts to say that to the manager lol, most places works almost like a dictatorship
Great comeback
Work like a startup and work 18 hour days and never have time off
I want to hit the like, but I don't want to change the 69 status.
@@skilz8098 Noice!! The worst part was he was actually a pretty good manager in general, but I think he spent every waking hour he wasn't at work reading "how to be the best manager" books, and bought way too far into their plans, rather than, you know, using common sense. He left and became a manager at Apple, so I'm sure he's making way more than me, so maybe I should start reading those books too
These CEOs are living in 1994. There’s literally no reason we need to waste commute time, gas, and push high-paid tech workers closer to city centers while people who actually need to be in person like teachers, janitors, road workers and utilities are forced to buy housing 1 hour+ from their jobs
Yes there is. Commercial real estate is worthless if no one is working in it. And you can’t use worthless real estate as collateral for loans. These companies don’t care that their employees are happier, more productive, get to spend more time with their family. Not to mention that it’s better for the environment. It’s simply more profitable to have an office space. Its value goes up over time and you can use it to get fat loans. It’s sad, but that’s how it is. If it were up to me, employers wouldn’t be allowed to force people back into the office if they can do all of their job duties online.
@@abdul4515 Fine, then let it be hybrid. There is no reason it needs to be 5 days a week.
@@MRM.98u just lazy
More like in 1984
@@Joe-ti7qd Guy who can't take the energy to type a proper sentence calls others lazy... hypocrite.
I love the way my company does the WFH policy. They have an office. You can go to it. Don't want to? You can WFH every day of every week. Got too many distractions at home some day? Construction going on in your building? You can go into the office, there will be a desk for you.
that's the sane, common sense way, indeed.
That’s a company id dream to work at, good for you man
I bet most of those employees choose wfh all the time 5 days a week
@@mikemadsen7926This is my structure currently (I’m a remote contractor at LinkedIn) I live 5-10 mins from the office and can go in whenever I want. I usually go in once or twice a week. I enjoy working from home in the morning, going into the office for (free) lunch, and socializing in the afternoon. My whole team is remote and they live further from the office so I don’t see them often, but I have other friends and colleagues I connect with in the office, which has actually helped my work go faster many times.
That said, I absolutely treasure my WFH days, I would suffer if I were in the office 3+ days per week from 9am every day.
Return to office or get fired is the quickest way to get rid of all of your qualified workforce and leaves you with those that can't be bothered looking for another job.
Current employee (AWS side of the house), I saw this when it was sent internally. Was already warned that if I move I need to live near a major office or I have to fill out that form. NGL - likely not going to be staying. I know of others that have already left because of the first RTO edict. This will accelerate the brain drain that’s already occurring.
All power to you buddy, hope it works out. Hate to see this.
From the outside looking in this just looks like they wanna reduce staff without layoffs and of course it works cause people don't want to commute and work in the office for no reason.
Just fill out the form and say that you aren't moving away from your private Thailand beach 🏝️ 😅
@@hyde4004in my country a company did this by moving their HQ 5 times in one year 😅
@@wb3904 Yea lmao they have infinite ways to make people leave.
You bet your ass if I get RTO I’m leaving exactly after 8 hours and not taking any laptops or work home with me.
When they call you for an MI say you'll be able to respond in 30-45 minutes as you have to drive to the office.
100%. We all need to remember this when this ends up happening to all of us as these jerk offs play follow the leader.
No shit.
@@stonefist 100%
this is the way
To work in the valley, you are almost forced to live a couple hours away to find affordable housing. I made it 18 months in San Mateo with 2+ hour commutes each way before deciding to move back to Ohio. The Valley sucks in terms of quality of life.
What city did you work in? That’s crazy, San Mateo is pretty in the middle of the bay, unless you worked in like south San Jose but even that probably wouldn’t be more than an hour
RTO has backfired where I work. People just put in the minimal effort. Nothing gets done anymore. We also have teams all over the map and have been that way well before the coof.
That's expected. This is only good for middle managers and up.
I'm calling BS, it's a known fact you did far less at home than you do in the office. Then only difference is you have to make your 2 hours worth of work look like 8 at home wheras in the office you just do 2 hours worth of work and F off all the same.
@@odie2763 Multiple studies have shown that productivity stayed the same or increased with work from home. Happy employees with a good work life balance will be more productive than forcing them to deal with traffic, parking, and the drama of the office.
@@odie2763 it's a known fact that youtuber user RogueA.I. does less work at home? because studies are not decided on this regarding the general workforce, with many reporting better productivity working from home, and many less. the only thing that seems agreed on is that hybrid workers are more productive than both. what's also well reported is the immense backlash from workers in workplaces that had WFH but then tried to force people back to work.
@@odie2763 not true lol people will talk to their colleague for an hour, go to lunch, go to the bathroom, go to the vending machine, make coffee, etc.
Why are CEOs always so long winded. This article should be half of this current length if he just cut all the fat and sugar and get to the damn point.
But then they would just be sitting there doing nothing?
They need to coat the simple 2 sentence message in flowerly language.
The entire post is basically doublespeak
They love hearing themselves, they love the attention, they know that they are full of shit and need to sugarcoat it.
@@elorrambasdo5233That’s mostly what they do on a regular basis. He likely dictated this to a secretary and never clacked one key on a keyboard.
Delusional self-importance is why a person would communicate like that
Oh, so home working was the reason all the fake reviews are up and damaging products don't get removed from the listing. Got it!
If it's not the Haitians, it's Bezos...
Most likely. There is NO OTHER WAY to ensure productivity than to have someone walk by your desk every 60 minutes to inquire about task status.
@@GerinoMorn The most logical way is if the job you're supposed to be doing is getting done. Though it seems in big tech companies, people are just hired to fill seats and/or build empires.
Remember people: CEOs are glorified accountants, and most often luddites.
I think the ship has mostly sailed on expecting in-office work to be standard. They'll have to pay a premium for that now, or face a labor pool that will reject their jobs on offer.
More like the people whose jobs could be remote will just be replaced by AI....
They need people to go back into the office so they can get their tax subsidies from the government.
that's a thing? wtf...
@@xExekut3xthey give them out so they can make their cities “the tech hub” of the region and to spur development, real estate prices etc.
@@xExekut3x Corporations make deals with local governments to build offices there. They get huge tax breaks based in the number of jobs. It's a very common practice.
Honestly I would just quit and get a different job
@@lazyman2451That’s the other goal. Volunteer quitting = no severance. Shaking the tree ahead of layoffs
One of the most cracked developers I know actually quit before starting their job in 2 weeks at AWS because of the RTO mandate. He was so hyped about working remote for Amazon, but he didn't even try to bargain for remote work as he knew he couldn't show proof he's worth a remote work exemption and even if he did, it would only be a matter of time before some other bs nulled that exemption
Worked at AWS data center! Never again!! Worst company ever!
It's too late, the genie is already outside of the bottle. It'll be really hard for any company to hire if they require full time in the office. A lot of people I know just refused such offers(before even talking about $).
🤞
Not everyone has the luxury of being able to refuse job offers out of inconvenience.
@@pavlinggeorgiev Then they get the desperate people without options.
Personally, I wouldn't consider a job offer that required me to regularly come to the office anymore. A couple of times a month is fine, but not every week.
Now, i'm not god's gift to programming, but given options i'll just pick the remote ones.
@@pavlinggeorgiev Not everybody needs to. Just enough people for them to realize they're losing quality candidates who actually can refuse job offers out of inconvenience, such as people who already have a job and are just looking for a better option (which is, I believe, a majority of candidates). They're also going to have a way harder time poaching candidates from other employers who offer better WFH options - most people will want a significant incentive to give up WFH benefits if they're already employed.
If you desperately need a job and take anything you can get, that's fair, you'll take a bad deal to keep your head above water. But a bad deal is still a bad deal, and you'll probably jump ship the second someone offers you something better, and you sure as shit won't have much loyalty to an employer who is ripping you off because they know you're desperate. And then Amazon will either have to offer better incentives to stay, or lose them to people who will offer them better incentives. And WFH is definitely an incentive.
@@pavlinggeorgiev It's not just about convenience. WFH saves a lot of expenses - transportation, lunch, a couple of hours you could use to make money for a 2nd job, etc. And contrary to peoples' believes the software industry is still supply driven. Nobody cares about amazon if he/she can pay the bills/mortgage and still save some $ while working from home, being with his/her kids and having a good work/life balance.
I'm following Amazon's lead and bringing my servers back on premises.
Fantastic comment.
👏 👏
I am doing the same with all my own stuff, im going to close my aws account soon.
Quiet firing is so stupid because a large portion of people who volunteering quit will be the good employees who can find a new job easier. If u are terrible at your job, but somehow work at Amazon making bank, you are not going to quit your job without a solid backup plan
Look. If you work at a computer all day and they won't let you work from home. Like if 90% of you day to day interactions are through the desktop then if they won't let you work from home. You really should just not work there at all.
When I hear a company talking about "their culture" I run, 90% of the time they have none.
🤣
the culture they develop is similar to the culture achieved by leaving mayo out in the sun
More like a cult
Welcome to the desperate times. Interest rates cuts ain't saving these companies from their own dumb decisions. That's what bailouts are for.
Employees wouldn't have any problem with overworking or even commuting for an hour if corpo jobs had some level of job security and stability, which like you said is more or less caused by their own dumb decisions that are fueled by unparalleled greed.
@@3_smh_3 Overworking and long commuting are symptoms poor labor practices and greed so no, employees would have a problem even with security and stability, it actually contradicts itself because if you had both then overworking and long commuting shouldn't be a thing.
@@3_smh_3 yup, don't be loyal to a company, they are pretty much never loyal to you
California’s tax problems stem from Prop 13 - boomers purchased houses 50 years ago, their tax liabilities are capped in equity regimes @ 5% current value. Property taxes are now so low, that the local municipalities must force other taxes on residents to pay for roads, parks, school, etc., and revenue that would normally come from property taxes, must come from other tax regimes, like income and other taxes on residents.
Doubly important, the ownership class lives elsewhere and pays none of those extra taxes, the renter class pays insane rental rates, and pays all of the taxes, and reaps minimal community benefits.
This is one of a dozen problems in California, but the ownership class benefits, so nothing will change.
Considering that personal property tax is the most evil of the types of taxes, you said nothing useful about why california is bad. Just don't try to get that much in tax money in the first place
Not only wouldn't work at Amazon, doing my best to not be a customer.
Quite !
Yeah, I go out of my way to check local areas for a local shop much of the time before heading to Amazon.
That's quite hard for me, they are like the biggest publisher out there. After getting kindle I'm not using traditional books anymore.
It's funny how eBay has the bad rep when now they are the best ones. At least on eBay sellers have names.
@@TsvetanDimitrov1976Pirate
I like going to office sometimes, I go once a week.
But... forget about productivity 🤣 too much distraction and chat and lunch and....
Was just contacted by an Amazon recruiter recently. This just saved me from wasting my time.
Make a 10min read into a hour long video. Only prime can do it
I read that books put the most information in the smallest format while videos put the least information in the longest format.
59 minutes better matches my commute
better than being a programmer
amazon: no bureaucracy
also amazon: remote work exception approvals
Also Amazon: Top down mandates about how individual teams should operate and reams of people required to enforce said mandates. Because that's how startups work!
health care by amazon is gonna be like a cyberpunk Trauma Team from wish
Why did I think of that video from Team Fortress 2 of the medic
CEO, entrepreneur
Born in 1964
Jeffrey
Jeffrey Bezos
Not sure what your point is but Jeff Bezos is not the CEO anymore.
Zuckerburg and Warren Buffet,
Amateurs can fuckin' suck it.
@@EdmondDantèsDE It's from bo burnhams inside special
👏👏
This song is a freaking earworm.
Honestly, if I actually had a team at the office, I'd go there more often, but my team is already spread all over, and I'm the only one working at our office.
I'm in the exact same situation 😂 I literally interact with 0 people at the campus
Same here. That´s the worst of all. Going to an office to log into teams meetings in a open office with 20 people inside.
This. Besides a small startup company, I've been at multiple large corporate offices where I spent all day on virtual meetings because our team was spread out over multiple physical locations. The only reason it was worth coming into the office was for the free lunch, but the commute was insufferable. Two hours driving every day. Literally the only extra bonus I got from being in an office was to make my manager happy, and to have the privilege of walking past the big office printer I never used. It was a giant waste of time, energy, and office space.
If 100% of your team isn't in the same physical building, you're already fully remote. Just let people choose if they want to work from home or work from the office.
For real... I started a new job two months ago... two senior developers come to office once per week and our engineering manager works from another country. Newcomers are expected to be at the office from now on.
I will get through my trial period and then bring it up. There is no use of me being at the office even as a new guy if my seniors are not at the office anyways to teach me.
I think the dumbest thing about hybrid work was the meetings during in-office days. All those magical "water cooler moments" are kinda hard to have when your entire team is constantly in various, often separate meetings.
It should be illegal to mandate work from office, unless it can be PROVEN to be an actual GENUINE requirement.
I'd love the scenario where all the employees that want to work remotely just quit and get another job and Amazon is thus shitting themselves big time.
That's what they want. Free lay offs without bad news for shareholders
@@augustus4832You would hope it's the top tier employees quitting though
they quit and make their own amazon
If it's a top tier employee, they will make exceptions to keep them, could be remote work, or even extra pay.
@@PokemonGOOHOHOHO The larger the organization, the harder they have to see anyone as irreplaceable.
Can we all agree to double our asking price if required to work in office? Even 1 day per week means our bosses lose all their leverage with hiring other people.
the company then will hire other people because doubling price just because different working at office is nonsense. many people will want to replace it because searching job today is hard. if they dont work they dont have income to fund life
@@doublekamui Where will they hire from? Requiring in office work shrinks the talent pool dramatically, especially for companies that aren't household name brands
@@_Safety_Third_ no, there are many out there from many country. expecially from country has has lower salary and people that dicipline
@@_Safety_Third_ because many people need joobs, because many new talents borned out there. they need job to fund their life
@@doublekamui so then they've caved and allowed remote work 🙃
I work for their obvious competitor...
Currently we have a 2-days a week office days. However, with my team dispersed and me being the only one in HQ, I stay at home. Badges arent tracked per person anyways, or atleast I think so. And my remote manager/teammates could careless. Havent walked in, in months.
But they're trying to relocate people in various office to HQ. And expand the days as well. Congested traffic due to implants means more road time, but thats the benefit of going to the office right? Ill get away with staying at home while I can
at the very least, these companies that require work at office should have any "fighting climate change" badges removed
the benefits of filling offices so the office lenders don't go bankrupt. amazing socialist system you have there , don't you
I do exactly the same, i just dont go to office anymore.
The company I work for just announced that we are returning to office with a rigid hybrid model. I finished my interviews with another company and waiting for my official offer. I'm never going to the office unless it's something I want to do.
Imagine if you lived in a small, remote town at 2,000 miles away from the office and had to quit your job. May as well get an accounting degree if your one of those people. Maybe offer some tech services online as a side gig.......
lol what? There are a ton of companies out there that are very happy hiring remote employees especially if they are highly qualified ex-FAANG. If this person wants a job and isn’t already super wealthy relative to his small town, they can get a job just fine or go into consulting. Hopefully you were just being sarcastic
Somehow I don't feel that bad for the techno-aristocrats who made faang money in Buttfuck, MO
@@playea123 sarcasm, yes. there is some truth to my statement as well. Why isn't it wise to select your path based on what your local (state) market dictates to you? Example: what do all small towns have? Banks, loan offices, etc.... most tech jobs require a "show me" approach to hiring. A CAP Data Analytics cert would match very nicely with that type of business degree. What if other companies follow Amazon's lead? The market is already competitive now. It would be more so! Thankfully, you have that Accounting background to pay your bills, right? Small towns are not booming with tech opportunities. Especially, southern towns.
You're seriously speaking to like 1 person out of a million who's ever experienced that in a millenia. Your comparison has such a low ratio it's dumb to even consider that a reason for remote work. People in the phillipines are staying up late to do remote work in the US, as well as the rest of area's in the world and you're making the excuse of "waaaaaaa I can't come to the office because I'm magically 2000 miles away from the office". They know you're 2000 miles away dork. They're not forcing you to go anywhere.
@@Nogo-Bronco ehh I see what you are saying but some companies have actually been wise enough to totally remove the expense of maintaining a physical office and have been hiring nationally. I’ve worked for such companies for 3 years now. My point is that the FAANGs and other VC dependent companies are somewhat in a special spot where the RTO mandates are really mostly about cutting costs via layoffs due to high interest rates. All the talk about productivity and culture is a bunch of BS. If you want to work remotely, there are companies out there that will happily let you do that. You just gotta target those in your job search and understand that they likely will pay a lot less than FAANG but you are saving a lot of money by not have to RTO.
This the same guy that added “Be Earth’s Best Employer” to the Leadership Principals btw
“Only two options, fires or hires.”
Not true, actually. When I was at Amazon, my manager got demoted to an IC on my own team and my skip level became our manager. Staggering display of public humiliation.
Middle management is basically corporate cannon fodder.
I made that choice voluntarily, are you sure it wasn't the same thing? That would be terrible if it was humiliation!
@@tyler5673 Yeah she 100% did not choose to move to IC, we were all pretty stunned. She ended up doing an internal transfer shortly after.
my favorite part is in the afternoon when everyone is playing board games or putt putt golf or whatever tf and making it impossible to get any work done that's fine, but if i decide to go home at that time then i get a talking to. returning to the office is great.
what does that mean to get a talking to?
@@pcrolandhu It means getting negative attention from management.
The ruler story reminds me of a similar algorithm that was trying to determine if a photo was a bedroom, eventually they figured out it wasn't looking for a bed but if the windows had curtains that was the strongest influence 😂
I heard one about picking out camouflaged tanks that was triggering on whether the sky was sunny or not because the training data was garbage.
WFH is great for naturally effective people, allows them to save more time and optimize in ways that don't work in an office usually. It's bad for people who can't keep themselves productive and middle-management roles that aren't essential; the former needs constant carrot + stick, the latter needs punching bags to feel important.
One has to wonder how many of Amazon’s investors are also heavily invested in commercial real estate. One also has to wonder how many of those investors are pressuring the likes of Amazon, an employment market leader, to spearhead the shift back to the office.
For some reason for any project or hobby outside of work, you just hop into a discord channel and hang out and bond with the random people.
And in the corporate world every simple question becomes a 1 hour teams meeting 5-10 business days from now.
And somehow the fix to this issue is getting everyone back into office to sit in teams meetings with the one guy who's working from some other office across the country.
Great. And the housing within commute of the Amazon dev offices are probably insanely expensive. So all that high salary goes into the house which is probably the same house a plumber bought 50 years ago.
Exactly. Wage slaves.
They just hiked up the rent prices in downtown Seattle right after the announcement
If you are forced to go into an office, just be 50-100% less effective on the days you are in. 2 can play at the game mr employers. I'm doing all I can to avoid work on the 1 day a week when I'm in the office just to make a point :D
youre starting to sound replaceable
Well, time to pack up your things pal.
what is the problem with working in offcie? you are paid you should follow their rules as far as its not crime
I don't have to try to be less productive in the office. With the noise, interruptions, and distractions, I am less productive.
Not to mention that the time I spend commuting means I have less hours in the day. At home, working a little late to finish something up is easy since I have more free time in the day.
@@doublekamui Because a lot of remote workers don't even live near the office and would need to completely reallocate their lives. You know, stuff like selling the house, splitting your children from their friends, transfer them to a new school, loss of secondary income because the wife needs to leave her job. etc. pp.
Even if all that isn't the case, you'll now need to deal with traffic to and from work, which is simply time that you now spend unproductive, which in remote is productive time for you. That's unpaid extra hours of time lost.
If you work remote, your life structures do not revolve around your workplace. Changing from remote to on premise work means you'll have to restructure your life completely, not because of a good reason, but because someone wants it that way. If your work doesn't require attendance to create better quality work, it's just a political decision that will reduce the quality of life for the remote worker. Remote workers are, by all reports I've read, usually more productive.
it's like the wisest man ever to live has said "There is no bad work, bad is having to work" - S. Madruga (only Latin Americans will get this reference)
Brazil mentioned. In the original Chavo Del Ocho, his name is Don Ramón
Steam also seems to do a very good job at paying their people good money.
can't wait to commute everyday!
Yay! Traffic!
Commute really is the offset that makes WFH so compelling. Yes, communicating when everyone is remote is harder. This is true. What is also true is that I'm much more happy to spend 30 minutes compensating for that rather than spending 2 hours in traffic each day.
@@neruneri it's not just the time spent commuting, it's also the time spent *preparing* to commute. idk bout you, but i don't necessarily shower in the morning anymore since i don't have to commute. i don't have to spend so much time washing/ironing pants for an in person job. i dont have to spend time getting gas, i dont have to scarf down breakfast, i dont have to do a ton of things that I'd have to get up super early to do before commuting. there's so much undocumented overhead (bc why would you document it?) underlying a commute that employers just dgaf about. 😢
to clarify, i shower midday or nights 😂 i didn't stop showering bc of remote work
Complain more about the real world plz lol
Prime not understanding the insane amounts of debt that small towns take on to maintain roads as their only form of infrastructure is peak boomer rant
I'm an Amazon (AWS) employee and wanted to weigh in.
My manager is in Texas and I'm in Seattle, they wanted to force him to move to Seattle so instead he's leaving my team for another team within the company, but he didn't want to leave, we didn't want him to leave, and the org didn't even want him to leave.. The Business at the C-suite and Director level didn't want to make an exception, so now we're losing our manager of the last few years even though it's been fine and we've been effective while he's been in Texas.
For stocks, distribution of RSUs is 5% at your one year mark, 15% at your 2 year mark, then 20% every 6 months (for my initial grant at least) which is effectively 40% a year. We don't get options at least at the IC level, so it's marked as W2 income and I have to pay taxes on it, not capital gains, just regular income tax. I think the meme is they do this because if you leave after 2 years, they've only paid you 20% of the stock comp vs. 50% of the stock comp.
So, how are the potential employees going to factor in mandatory office work in their salary negotiations?
no no, you only get a salary decrease (adjustment in HR terms :))))) for WFH, not a salary increase for working in office LOL that's the corpo mentality
What, you mean like commute compensation? lol, lmao even.
In solidarity with Amazon developers I will cancel all Amazon services and never order anything ever from Amazon.
I like my job and I like the in-office days, but I mostly like in-office days because the majority of my days are at home. It's a nice balance
I hired someone who used to work at AWS as a data scientist. She said she liked it, but that her job was building models for external companies and she didn't like having to learn a new company's data every 2 weeks. She maybe didn't want to talk too much shit about her past company, though, which never looks good during an interview. Another past colleague still works at Amazon as a data scientist. His one and only goal in life when I met him was to become a data scientist at Amazon. He stuck with it, got an offer with great pay, survived the layoffs, but then had his salary decreased by like $40k a year (still gets paid better than I do, though). The last time I talked to him he told me the better pay is not worth it anymore, it's way too competitive and stressful.
Wish I lived in the timeline where Amazon tells its employees to come back to the office or be fired so they unionize and work from home.
No it's just a world where Amazon hired way too many remote workers😂 some of these people were working two jobs for two different companies at the same time😂 easy way to do layoffs of jobs that didn't produce anything
The 5,15,40,40 vesting schedule is true BUT you basically get the difference in cash during the first two years.
Amazon just took over the doctor's office we take our kids too. The most horrible experience ever. On top of having insurance they make you get a subscription to get service from the clinic. The quality of the doctor experience has gone down. We had to look for a new doctor for our kids.
seems like because of the tougher than usual market.. they're taking advantage of it.. so of course people that have moved into lower cost areas or open areas.. will have to weigh the pain of finding a job or just moving and dealing with it.
I'm genuinely surprised there's no competition that's perfectly cool with remote work.
All along I thought THIS video was "Prime Video", I'm confused now 😂😂
It sounds like a manager's games. Do some big change that has little effect on the productivity output, but you can show that you are busy. Unfortunately the state of economy and job market currently allows the employers to force their rules on employees. That will backfire, cause people will remember the treatment and leave as soon as situation improves.
I have no issues working from home. When I'm at home I work on my personal project, when it's work time I switch repos. What is burnout?
That's the issue. You're not slaving away and doing overtime
I am switching from work laptop to the private laptop, too. I do not want to cross-pollute anything between those two realms. Also: separate phone for work and private.
I have my personal computer and work computer. Would never use the company pc for private things.
@@AndrewTSq I'm broke 😂😂😂
Be careful, they may be able to claim your personal work if you do it on their equipment
We in Europe agree on it because we have good labor laws. We still have work from home, minimum of 25 payed holiday days, and no bs abut sick days. Also, a max of 40 hours a week and a living wage. I dont mind having a different seat once a week in the office. I get to meet new people and see different parts of the office.
I`ve been working remotely for 10 years now. Worked like this even before it was cool. And i can tell you that i like to go to the office to be able to interact with other people face to face. There is no comparison face to face interaction vs teams meetings. Quick way to burnout. Your home becoming your work doesnt give you that transition from work to home. It`s so smooth that it feels like you`re constantly at work. Also you have your second boss nearby if your wife is stay-at-home. Every time you have a moment to breathe she`ll barge in "oh you`re not doing anything? can you take out the trash or jump quickly to grocery store for something?". I`m convinced that anyone who will only accept WFH setup just hasnt done it long enough. Go for a hybrid setup like 3/2 or 4/1. That seems like a best of both worlds.
no
@@peachezprogramming yes
Boundaries are important, even at home, and especially during the workday.
sounds like a problem if your wife is your second boss
not that it matters, since your problem is that your wife is giving you chores to do during work hours and not that youre at home, but ive been doing remote for 13years and ill never accept a job that requires me to go to office even one day a week (unless i get into a real bad situation where i wont have any other option ofcourse...)
I work on a team that gathers data for machine vision algorithms. Just walk out tech was most certainly not based on Indians watching people shop to estimate their bill. They were labeling data sets. The algorithms require labeled images of people shopping to improve accuracy. Amazons plan at scale was not to hire millions of Indians to watch millions of people shop…
RE: the ruler and 'there's a lot we don't understand yet'. Actually we do understand it. We are actually very good at object detection in images and it is very well known how to do it correctly. The fact that not all companies using it get it correct, doesn't mean we don't know how. The biggest problem in almost all AI workloads is quality training data. If you skimp on that you will get bad results.
The second biggest problem is that the output looks fantastic and they get rolled out without adequate testing with real life data.
eh object detection is already very very good. people that say no is confirming they dont know actually about machine learning computer vision
@@doublekamui holy shit bro you reply to every comment lol
Just to clarify. The ruler example is not generative ai, its image classification. That kinda tech has been around for 10 years and ignited the initial AI boom in the early to mid 2010s. GenAI is about content generation, not classification. It is a completely different set of tools and architecture.
Not hotdog
Prime Video = completely enshitified
The bit about the Bay Area being terrible to live in on SWE salaries is very real. Try to take your kids to literally any park and it will be so crowded, both with other families and a surprising amount of homeless people. Wildlife preserves will refuse people on weekends because there isn't enough parking. Theft basically has no consequences, so if you can't park your car in a garage then your windows will be smashed regularly. The list goes on and on.
The vesting schedule rant is very misleading as they way Amazon does it is actually beneficial to employees.
You get an offer with say 100k bonus first year, 100k bonus seconds year, 100k bonus third year, 100k bonus fourth year.
the first year its 20k stock/80k cash, second year is 40k stock/60k cash, third its 80k stock/20k cash and 4th is 80k stock/20k cash.
This is better than even distribution because it allows the stock portion to grow - if stock value grows 10% each year, employee gets extra 20 - 30 k compared to the even distribution while Amazon pays out the same.
Also, if you want to max stock, you can always buy Amazon stock with the cash bonus you received, win-win-win situation. Please stop bashing it.
Is there a vesting period on the stock? That's the real question. If the stock bonus requires vesting, that means you can't sell it. That means cash bonuses are always better. Stock bonuses cost the company far less, and giving stock to employees with a contract that prevents them from selling will push the stock price up, which benefits the company. Also, I've seen contracts that require you to outright buy the "bonus" stock if you haven't vested during that time period. Some of those contracts get pretty nasty. It's basically a way to guarantee that employees don't get the bonuses they thought they'd get.
Cash is always better than stocks. If you can sell the stock, why does the company give you stock instead of cash? Stock options are usually a trap, and interior to cash bonuses in the majority of cases. If you're going to offer bonuses, then sure, offering more stock early gives it time to vest, but it also guaranteed that the company avoids paying most of the bonus, because the average career tenure at a software job is ~2 years, so the company ditches on paying most of your bonus if you don't stay for 5 years, which almost no one does.
@@alexlowe2054 technically you receive all stock up front and vest in the increments described above. You can sell it all vested these intervals.
Stock compensation is better for 3rd and 4th year because it appreciates since day 1 and cash doesnt.
You earn more money overall, you lose nothing. There is no downside, there is only upside. (As long as the stock value goes up every year)
Another thing you seem to be confusing Stock Options with RSUs. Amazon offers RSUs, stock options are only available to early stage startups and CEOs and these are tricky mechanisms.
@@alexlowe2054 Kinda? The vesting period is every year for the first 2 years, then after that 6 months for half and 6 months for the other half of your stock in years 3 and 4/5. Until around the 4th year which you fall off a cliff if you don't get promoted.
600B later and they STILL can't add a side door option on Amazon delivery. It's a 30s HTML fix. Just add a Select tag on the radio buttons between Front Door and Back Door. It's crazy
The side door, on average, is probably an extra 10-20s per delivery. They probably factored that in and decided to never add that option.
"What's Azure's selling point over AWS"? um, IT'S NOT AMAZON... you know, the one with all the awful work culture stuff that the article is about. I don't know why anyone would WANT to use AWS or support Amazon.
Why would any companies care about this in the slightest. No one’s asking you, a single person, for your opinion about AWS, it’s about what companies think.
azure is microsoft lmao, you could've argued that with aws vs gcp, but there are lots of reasons to avoid ms
@@masterflitzer oh yeah I know, they're not much better. Avoid both.
@@colinstu then how is your point in FAVOR of azure "it's not amazon", but then you change your stance and say yeah both are bad? obviously big companies are bad, but that wasn't the discussion, you said one is better than the other and i say the opposite, microsoft is by far the worst of them and azure can suck it
I've only seen one W when it comes to working for a company in California. I had a buddy who was a regional sales rep with a Midwest territory for a company in CA. He got to live in the Midwest but collect a California company.
Prime is on a boomer rate unfortunately. A lot of California's problems are rooted in unaffordability when it comes to housing.
The thing that all CEOs fail to mention consistently, which unexpectedly enouch is the same with politicians, is to mention what happens if that plan fails? Will the CEO lose his job? Will there ever be actual leadership responsibility? They constantly mandate measureables for everybody else but themselves. Ridicoulous
The plan won't fail because Amazon realized it hired way too many remote workers🎉 it's the thing that everybody's missing🎉 they can lose 50% of these people and they won't even notice🎉 some of these people working two jobs for two different companies at the same time😂 and at the very best your job was going to be outsourced to India or the Philippines😂
so they lied about the 6 minutes...
Someone I know at Amazon complains about the RTO situation, not because she doesn't like going into the office, but because of the whole agile situation has made finding desk seats quite difficult if you don't show up at 8AM (plenty of high tops available, but lots of people need those second monitors!)
Largest Cloud platform on Earth: don't work remotely...
Amazon is the highest paying company in our area of the states. They start at $20/hr while the rest of the local jobs around here are $8/hr.
Gotta justify that high cost of living somehow
FIY, if you have Blue Cross Blue Shield health insurance in Montana, they are a mutual insurer like State Farm - not for profit mission, no stock, owned by the customers, not investors.
Oh look, looks like Lord Bezos is still running from the shadows
As a Gen Z, I ain’t working for a company that’s 100% in office. Give me half 50% hybrid or, more preferably, remote.
Make sure you're highly specialized because otherwise your job's just going to go to India or it's going to be in an office😂 it's not very difficult to see the future of the industry
Amazon says return to office or quit *
Yeah, and soon other companies will follow suit and kill off "Work-at-home".
Flew to Silicon Valley in the mid 2000s for a conference and back then a 3-bedroom ranch was averaging $1.3M. Can't imagine what prices are in 2024.
Employed live at Amazon, GET IN OR GET FIRED
Our company is doing a very similar thing. Over the past 2 years the company really has invested into employee happiness. We've come from no homeoffice before covid, to homeoffice to 2 days homeoffice with flexible days. Soon we'll be going back to 1 day of homeoffice which will be fixed to a friday (or if you don't take the HO, you either get 0.25 vacation days).
I'm really looking forward to see how the company will change. As for myself, I doubt it will be any positive change whatsoever.
Amazon: "Return to office or get fired."
All employees' response shoud be: "We all become work at home or we arrest and sue ALL the bosses."
That's a novel legal theory there.
@@chaos.cornerlmfao
This is definitely going to trickle down to other companies and industries. Just great news, the work from home experiment was nice while it lasted, worked too, but who really cares about that.
I love how prime says he is sure there some billionaires that play fair and fails to give a single example.
Because they don't get publicity for deranged behavior
I left AWS not too long ago. To clarify on the stock compensation described at 7:50 - yes its a 5/15/40/40 spread, BUT in the first 2 years the shortfall is made up for (almost exactly) in the form of the sign-on bonus. The TC doesn't change very much unless the stock price shoots up.
Only a matter of time before every other company follows
AI stands another indian XD
genuine dystopian nightmare is "adjustments"
After 27 years Id expect the guy to sing to the tune of the company ngl
correction on stock vesting, google doesn't have a 1 year cliff. it's actually front-loaded and starts vesting immediately (after about 1.5mo of start date)