Thanks for making this video, I’ve been working on a Melbourne Network in Minecraft, I’m around 20-30% of the way there, if it wasn’t for you I won’t be able to replicate this junction
@@ThisGuyCarlo yes, I’ve completed the entire Burnley Group, and the Sandringham Line, for the Burnley Group, there’s other tracks meaning they can be express trains
Great video. An interesting note on spion kop - back in the early 1900s there used to be a shunters cabin there and it was described as a windy desolate place. Many railwaymen at the time were veterans of the battle of Spion Kop in the boer war. The hill in Melbourne reminded them of the hill in the battle (being desolate) and so that’s how the place got its name. Today the cabin is long gone but the name survives! There’s a VR newsletter article about it somewhere although I couldn’t tell you the issue.
There is also Spion Kopje, a mountain ridge in the Victorian high country. I wonder if it's named for the same reason, by the builders of the Kiewa hydro scheme maybe?
Just randomly watching this again and realised it’s already outdated! The pair of crossovers for the Sunbury line near South Kensington have been ripped out. The Sunbury line now has no way of gaining access to North Melbourne platform 5/6.
My voiceover in this video was kindly recorded by my brother Cian, who happens to be a talented sound recordist and musician. Let's see if we can get his channel to 15 subscribers before mine gets to 10,000! -->> www.youtube.com/@cianbennet
The City Loop was a huge stuff-up when built and represents everything wrong with the Victorian Railways' way of thinking and planning at the time. Subsequent planning has continued this proud tradition of deliberately choosing the cheapest and worst option instead of the one with most future benefits to the network at a whole. Here's a list of things that could have been done better: 1) It should have been two through tracks to route some south-eastern services through to the north and west. The Clifton Hill lines never needed a loop-the old Princes Bridge was perfectly adequate and could have been upgraded to have higher throughput and quicker reversing of trains. 2) The loop reversal was implemented solely for the operational benefit of stabling trains in Jolimont Yards, and became irrelevant when the yards closed barely a decade later. 3) The portals at North Melbourne are in the wrong spot. They should have been positioned one track pair to the west, keeping tracks 1 and 2 free for long-distance services. 4) The Essendon flyover could have been designed to be a proper grade-separated junction, taking Broadmeadows trains over the Footscray lines. The Down long-distance track could have been routed under the flyover to join on the western side, eliminating the flat junction at Kensington. The Down Werribee line could have branched off and run to the south of the flyover, and the Up line could have come in under the flyover and joined where the junction is presently. 5) By the 1980s, suburban rail freight was almost non-existent. The complicated trackwork that used to exist could have been replaced with a dive that took Upfield trains under the St Albans and long-distance tracks, continuing below grade until Macaulay station to eliminate the level crossing. 6) The Dynon flyover could have been modified to ease the curves slightly, and rejoin the tracks from Southern Cross 15/16 between the Up and Down tracks, eliminating the flat junction at Spion Kop. 7) If the long distance tracks had continued on from North Melbourne 1/2, they could have been extended as the Regional Rail Link along the northern side, through the former Tottenham Yard, with a set of flying junctions to join the suburban lines on the Down side of Sunshine station. Longer-term planning could even have regauged these lines and separated them completely from the suburban network. 8) Like you stated in the video, V/line missed an opportunity to run push-pull services with a driving trailer. I believe Comeng suggested it at the time, and the unions promptly refused to even consider it due to some archaic rule about running trains in "reverse". 9) Most terminal stations in Europe and America do not have engine release roads. Southern Cross could have been rebuilt to remove those redundant roads and gained another terminal platform. The stabling yards in the middle of the station yard take up space that could be used to install higher-speed turnouts so trains wouldn't need to crawl at 30 km/h until past South Kensington. I could probably add more, but RUclips comments aren't really meant for multiple-paragraph essays.
Hindsight is wonderful, isn't it? The old Princes Bridge was _not_ adequate for through services, with two of the three platforms being dead end and no obvious/easy way to change that. The loop reversal was not implemented solely for the operational benefit of the station yards. That one one motive, but the other was to discourage passengers from continuing to use the overcrowded Flinders Street station. With up trains going via the loop stations, passengers were encouraged to use the loop stations unless they really needed to use Flinders Street. I don't see how the "Dynon" flyover should be modified to ease the curves. Doing that would essentially be a rebuild, not a modification. Some of your other comments are not clear enough to me to be able to address whether they would have been a good idea or not.
@@PJRayment Princes Bridge would have been perfectly adequate for terminating services, and there is really no need for Clifton Hill group trains to proceed beyond Flinders St. It's always operated as a mostly-isolated branch, and the Clifton Hill Loop was built primarily for political reasons. The Melbourne Underground Rail project would have been better if it was a separate set of through tracks rather than four independent loops, and a priority project for PTV is reconfiguring the loop to provide exactly that. Why didn't they design it right the first time? If Japanese and Swiss railways can have two-minute headways on dead-end lines with few platforms, then so can Melbourne. The Hankyu railway operates three lines each with their own three platforms (no track connections) out of Umeda Station in Osaka with far more trains than ever operated on the Clifton Hill group. Prior to late last year, the Sihltal Zürich Uetliberg railway operated trains on two branches each at ten-minute headways out of the underground terminal below Zürich Hbf, which doesn't seem to extraordinary except for the fact that both lines used a different overhead voltage so passing loops and double-track operations were extremely complicated. Both lines are predominantly single track once they diverge, and they still manage six trains per hour per direction. The sharp curves on the North Melbourne / Dynon flyover are a root cause of the wheel wear problems that completely stuffed up V/line operations a couple of years ago. The original alignment was fine for occasional locomotive and empty carriage movements, but it is definitely not suitable for regular revenue services. The alignment through the yards there is convoluted and slow, and restricts train speeds until South Kensington. Compare this to the approach tracks from Zürich Hbf, which permit 110 km/h almost as soon as the trains leave the main station throat with numerous double-slip turnouts. V/line is limited to 30 or 40 km/h until after South Kensington, 80 km/h to Sunshine, and then gets stuck behind all-stops suburban services to Bendigo. If the Melton and Wyndham Vale lines are brought into the Metro network, which is going to be necessary sooner rather than later, then the RRL and RFR upgrades will be pointless without additional tracks. But the LXRA didn't bother to add any future-proofing infrastructure, so we're stuck with two tracks and no passing until someone can justify digging another set of trenches. My other comments detail how V/line services could have been incrementally separated from suburban services with ease if the infrastructure had been built slightly differently. The main amendment that I'd make to the above is that the Upfield line should be elevated next to the CityLink motorway until after Flemington Bridge. The upgraded Flemington Bridge station could be located above Mount Alexander Rd, with a concourse at the current rail level allowing grade-separated pedestrian interchange with the trams and rail platforms on the level above.
@@zoqaeski "Princes Bridge would have been perfectly adequate for terminating services," Only with considerable upgrades to the track and signalling. But okay, I was addressing the thought of making them through platforms, not of continuing to use them as dead-end platforms. "It's always operated as a mostly-isolated branch, and the Clifton Hill Loop was built primarily for political reasons." When the loop was opened, only selected trains used it. Now all trains (that use the loop at all) use the loop. You'd deprive the Clifton Hill passengers of using any station other than Flinders Street. "The Melbourne Underground Rail project would have been better if it was a separate set of through tracks rather than four independent loops, ... Why didn't they design it right the first time?" Because there was a lot more traffic on the eastern side than the western side, plus the location of Jolimont yard. As I said in my previous comment, hindsight is wonderful. "Both lines are predominantly single track once they diverge, and they still manage six trains per hour per direction." Whereas the Clifton Hill group has about 14 trains an hour in the peak hour. Your Udema example is valid, but not these ones. "The sharp curves on the North Melbourne / Dynon flyover are a root cause of the wheel wear problems that completely stuffed up V/line operations a couple of years ago. The original alignment was fine for occasional locomotive and empty carriage movements, but it is definitely not suitable for regular revenue services." You're arguing why the tracks need to be realigned. I never said that they didn't. I pointed out that realigning them would require a rebuild, not just modification.
Best lateral thinking I ever experienced on the network, inbound train had some issue at Spencer, reversed back to north Melbourne then went back to Spencer via a different track/platform, sure I was delayed by about half an hr but I was impressed we got moving
Not being from Victoria, is there any reason why the Shepparton and Seymour trains don't use the RRL flyover coming out of Southern Cross, and then the underutilised flyover to Kensington north of North Melbourne? Would have thought that could remove a couple of unnecessary conflicts with the suburban services you mention.
It is possible to some extent, but is a bit limited - it's only a single track crossover between the Kensington flyover and the RRL at Spion Kop, so that's a potential bottleneck between up and down trains. Also, it's in a bit of a weird position, and you can't actually get from the Down RRL ex-platforms 1-8 across to Kensington. So it would only work for Up trains, or if they ran into 15/16.
@@Taitset A while ago I took a Seymour service from 15/16 which surprised me as it's normally 6/7 which obviously used that high level connection. Being a Saturday, it didn't have too many conflicting services to deal with. Also back when Sheppartons were loco-hauled, Ups would sometimes divert at Kensington to use the high level/flyover but would end up usually on 3/4.
Hello, I am relatively new to your channel. Do you have a video explaining the freight network from the regional centres through to the ports? With stabling procedures?
Thanks for a supremely informative video! Great stuff to hear how what I watch every day to and from work functions. And after spending over 20 years travelling through NM Station I finally learned here about the viewing platform!! THANK YOU!!!!!! 😊😊😊
Very interesting, well produced video. I wonder whether it would be possible to redo north Melbourne with cross-platform interchange when the city loop is reconfigured - it’d be convenient, but disruptive I reckon.
What an outstanding video Martin! A really well put together and just an excellent presentation! Funny you mention about the three north lines all being yellow, I live on the Upfield line, and more frequently than I would have thought I have people who have caught the wrong train thinking it would take them to say Craigieburn! Once again, excellent video! Have a fantastic new year!
Thanks Will! Yeah it's a shame they didn't give every line its own colour like most other cities. I guess it would have been hard to draw the loop like that though! I've definitely seen a few people out on the Hurstbridge line who think they're going to Mernda.
Here in Adelaide there's a similar problem, with lines that share tracks being grouped as one colour, however it's sorta mitigated by there being announcements before the station where the two lines split saying "Change here for trains to: (other line)"
Extremely well explained and a very interesting watch. Seeing how easily you were able to dissect a very complicated maze of tracks, junctions and tunnels, I imagine that you are also a whiz at untangling the Christmas lights each year
My comment is in someone else's youtube video - life goal acheived! And great video as always, thanks so much Martin for explaining this stuff so well.
Yes, it's happened at least two or three times that I'm aware of! Not sure if it's ever happened from North Melbourne, but it's certainly happened from the Richmond end into the Caulfield loop. Most recently was only a few years ago with a VLocity, and there was a video of it taken by a passenger coming up the ramp into Southern Cross.
I like the part about the Southern Cross name. Makes zero geographical sense. They should have kept it as Spencer St. Imagine renaming Flinders St as Orion or Andromeda. I'm still pushing for Domain to remain as the official name for the new underground station at the Domain junction, but it seems like Anzac is set in stone.
I still call it spencer st 😅 mostly because i have fond memories of the old station in the 90's, and also because changing the name of the biggest station in the state, to something nearly irrelevent (its not a flag nor is victoria the capital 😂) annoys me haha
Hello All, 1/Martin, you have made an excellent video, thank you. 2/ Spion Kop once had a shunters cabin as preWW2, ( and for some time after ) North East Goods trains ( as then called, freight trains are a bit modern ! ) used to run up the Essendon ( later Broadmeadows, now Craigeburn ) line into Melbourne Yard, and I have been informed that some NE Goods trains had to wait at Spion Kop for permission to enter Melbourne Yard.The location nameplate for Spion Kop is a recent provision, and I have been told by retired Melbourne Yard shunters that the name was semi official for many years. 2a/ The 2nd Boar War, 1899-1902, made some, and cost many reputations, as well as a large loss of life, it also gave us the Concentration Camp. Post WW2, such places were then called Protected Villages. Spion Kop coincided with railway expansion, as did the 1896-1899 Klondike Gold Rush, hence the naming of railway facilities around the British Empire after these newsworthy locations. 3/ some NE Goods trains assessed Melbourne Yard via Somerton and Upfield for the Coburg line ( as then called ), and from 1977 till the late 1980s, the Ford train, with BFW / VBCW, palletised car parts box vans, ran between Geelong and Campbellfield via Melbourne Yard and Essendon.By the late 1980s, these trains were replaced by B Double semi trailers. 4/behind the extant former North Melbourne Junction Signal Box ( once home to a pistol; grip electro-mechanical frame) was the Arden St cement sidings, and Way&Works sidings. The cement train used to run from Fyansford to Arden St using CJ /CJF /VHCA bogie hopper wagons as a block load ( block trains are not a 1960s invention, except by the PR people ! ). 5/ the 4w J, and bogie JX / VPAX/VPBX/VPCX air pressure discharge cement wagons went to Fyansford in Down Geelong Goods trains from Melbourne Yard, and generally returned to Melbourne Yard in up Geelong Goods, as these cement wagons served the Dandenong Line for Humes Concrete at Westall with bogie JX, Rocla at Spring Vale with 4w J, Dandenong Cement Siding and Lyndhurst (?) with JX .Palletized bagged cement was delivered in BLF bogie box vans to various locations including Oakleigh and Dandenong. 6/Spencer St Pass yard was once electrified and was shunted by 1100-1101 steeple cab electric, and E1102-E1111 boxcab electric locomotives.( I was fortunate to enter inside E1111 when it was shunting at Spring Vale, all the electrics between the cabs were closed off with cyclone fencing ! ) 7/ for a short interim period Spencer St was Southern Cross Spencer St.. The Signal Box and associated circuit plans are still marked Spencer St / SSS due to the high cost, for no practical benefit, of renaming all the drawings. 8/both Spencer St platforms 7&8 were electrified and used by Coburg Line services which once terminated at Spencer St.Later on the Eastern Passes arrived and departed Spencer St Plat 8 for Flinders St Plat 1c via the Parcels Viaduct/PV, later City Circle Clifton Hill Viaduct / CHL. This arrangement outlasted the superb English Electric(EE) L1150-L1174 class locomotives. 9/in the 1920s1930s some Geelong Passes ( including the Geelong Flyer ) hauled by VR A2 class steam locomotives, ran between Spencer St Plat 8 to Flinders St 1c. Steam hauled Geelong trains also used to run off Spencer St plats 6&7. 10/The diesel hauled Werribee Passes used to run of Spencer St Plat7, hauled by either a W class ( brave decision ! ) or a Y class diesel if a Rail Motor or DERM was not available. The W class also tried to haul the Southern Aurora, the Spirit of Progress, or the Inter Capital Daylight across the flyover to Spencer St. More often than not, the W class, even occasionally double headed, gave up the ghost somewhere on the flyover, so eventually either an S or X class diesel, which became the train engine, was used to dock the empty cars from South Dynon Car Sheds, originally especially built for the SG Passes. 11/ Pre the 1980s, the VR ran Special Show trains from the eastern suburbs direct to the Showgrounds, as well as some Eastern, and South Eastern Passes direct to the Showgrounds. Race Specials also ran between Flinders St to Flemington Racecourse. Race traffic in particular is now much diminished, as are crowds at the Races these days. The VR stopped running Race trains to places like Caulfield and Sandown Park due to a significant fall off in demand in the late 1970s. Regards to all.
@@Taitset Awesome, thanks! From what I understand and see, there is quite a lot of flat junctions and wonder how/if a flyover would help improve network efficiencies x3
Many thanks for this - it's great to have a clear and careful explanation of this complex piece of railway. It's also interesting to see how it's changed since I visited in 2007: the Regional Rail flyover must make a big difference to operations.
I rode on the flyover on the day (accidentally, no planning whatsoever was involved in lining that up) RRL opened. The train screeched and groaned over the tracks. And weeks later they had to pull the service while they worked out what to do to not get the wheels and rail to wear so prematurely. Good to see Australia is full of such good political decisions that we still have 160km/h trains limited to not much more than walking pace for the entire duration of the the switching yards. I bet you there's a video in that - why did this service feel like riding a mechanical bull despite going 5km/h, but when you ride through equivalent switching yards in Germany, the ride is plush and done at >60km/h, with no accompanying screeching?
I’m from Adelaide but I’ve been fascinated with Victoria trains for over a decade. I’m also a 50% North Melbourne fan in the AFL and always been interested in Melbourne junctions like NM and Richmond junctions. Thank you for explaining this junction
Great video and will help with 1:87 HO Layout of South Cross and other major stations and if you can make the junction map a downloadable Image with all the track but e.g., Sidings in Orange, up lines in red, and down blue. or can you tell how you made the map so I can recreate? because I lost a Rolling line Layout of South Cross and other stations in a 6 km radius.
Some V/line trains I’ve ridden on do the big departure from Southern Cross and then come to a stand next to Franklin Street for up to 5 minutes. When L classes were running, there were trains to the Showgrounds or Flemington that ran from Gippsland. On the Show map there used to be a “country platform” which was opposite the Flemington race platform along with four tracks between them. When you said Vline missed an opportunity, the feeling I perceived in the early ‘80s was that the Liberal (conservative) government reluctantly ran country trains under sufferance but realized that carrying out the Lonie Report recommendations of cancelling all country passenger services would be political suicide. When the Labor Cain government took over, the Transport Minister Steve Crabb reinstated some services. I’m not sure which government created the push-pull P class services and the Sprinter rail car order was too far ahead for the Liberal (ultra conservative) Kennett government to cancel it. Best thing that Kennett did was to reinstate the Echuca and Maryborough services.
Re cab cars in the H sets, the original concept from Newsrails at the time was either a loco in the middle of a carriage set, with cabs both ends, or a fixed loco at one end and driving cab at the other end. Both ideas were knocked back because crews at the time were concerned about crashworthiness and signal visibility from the single windows of the ex-M cars that became BCHs.
Southern cross kinda makes me sad. Theres so many awesome things about Spencer Street, I wish I could have seen it. Southern Cross' best feature is the way you can see all the platforms at once from the balconies, but other than that I think its a pretty ugly place. Especially that gharish roof. Why didnt they give it a flat roof to build on top of?
Dear Martin, any chance of a video of the model railway layout displayed at 13.12+ please? Even in its under construction phase it looks quite interesting, and I am sure that I am not the only one interested, best wishes and regards.
Great Explainer! I was thinking that maybe you'd want to make a video that explains all the little junctions on the network like Camberwell, Burnley, etc. You'd only have to do a small one minute segment for each junction.
Fantastic video, thank you! Clear and concise and very well put together. Would have been a great resource in my days as a train driver. Any chance you will do a video on the freight side of things in Melbourne? Plenty of confusion and changes over the years, so making something current would be a challenge. Hope you accept said challenge?!? 🙂
@@chrisj6321 It _was_ supposed to be renamed West Melbourne, to free the name for the nearby station in the new tunnel, but that idea has been scrapped, with North Melbourne retaining the name and the new station being called Arden.
12:20, this should happen with the Overland, Indian Pacific and many other classic locomotive hauled passenger trains in Australia. This would erase the time it takes for the locomotive to turn around and there would be more time for other trains to use platforms.
When I was a lad and still living in the Netherlands, around 1989, beginning of the 1990s, trains were still loco-hauled. Mind, these locomotives were from the 1950s. These days practically all passenger trains are EMUs, and those that aren't have a loco on either side. They also have a cab car before one of the locos, but these are incompatible and since the rolling stock is from the early 1980s, it's not worth rebuilding them (the cab cars themselves being rebuilt from a normal carriage after some 20 years). It's quaint to see the old-fashioned way of doing things. Chances of me visiting Melbourne are near zero (it's too far, my wife has family living in that other city that I won't mention, and we're both too old) but I enjoy your videos.
The viewing platform is a good place for trainspotting, likewise the La Trobe St bridge. Both used by me when we were in Melbourne in 2015. Hi from NZ, Anthony
Sadly the La Trobe St bridge now has fencing blocking most of the view. There are a few small holes big enough to stick a lens through, but's it's not quite as nice as it used to be!
Your videos are PTV level quality, ofc streamlined by some cuz ill trust that the sidings are just spurted inbetween everywhere there, but still very comprehensable and cleanly visualised
At 10:45 you showed the convoluted route taken by the Albury SG trains getting to Southern Cross, I also found an in-cab video of the entire nearly 4 hour journey available here: ruclips.net/video/N8gIbVGe-Hs/видео.html
hey martin, in the final shot of this video you can see the 1600mm and 1435mm gauge track together on the top of the bridge, but there's also a third much smaller gauge in between those two -- what is that track for?
8:32 I'm sure you probably do actually know what it means, but spion kop means "spy hill" in Afrikaans, usually like a hunting shelter of observation post. I don't know if there's any meaning behind that choice though. (funnily enough I only know this fact via Perun, another Aussie RUclipsr, and his use of the Oryx information service)
Apparently the junction was named by railwaymen in the early 1900s who had fought in the battle of Spion Kop ( en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Spion_Kop ) The junction is up on a small hill, and apparently reminded them of the hill from the battle!
Great Video, and wow the junction is massive when you put it in a perspective such as you have, with the junction working around the city loop I wonder how tf it's working with the city loop being closed for a little now... The Clifton Hill Corridor probably doesn't even go to Southern Cross now, prob just terminates at Flinders Street then go back
Correct, Clifton Hill/Burnley/Caulfield are all terminating at Flinders Street. The Northern Group lines are running through to Flinders Street, and are able to make use of the other tracks normally used by Burnley/Caulfield trains.
This is a great explainer video. Thanks for putting it together. I just had one question about North Melbourne. Similar to what I was wondering about at Richmond and South Yarra, when the Metro Tunnel opens and Sunbury trains no longer use the station, what trains will use platforms 3 and 4? Perhaps Upfield and Craigieburn trains will be split between the two sets of platforms, but wouldn't that create conflict with the crossovers on the down side of the station allowing access to those lines? What is your take on this?
Yeah my guess is they would put Craigieburn through 3&4 most of the time. That fully separates it from Upfield at the down end (see diagram at 06:32) which removes opposing direction clashes. But you still have the clashes with Seymour/Shepp trains.
For some parts I used the Vicsig line guides as a reference: ( vicsig.net/index.php?page=infrastructure§ion=lineguide ) But I worked a lot out either via satellite imagery, or my own photos - and there were a few bits under the roof where I just had to go and look with my eyes!
My brain thought of a double meaning of the name Southern Cross. Not only is it named after the southern cross constalation. But it is the major crossing point of all trains in the Southern part of Australia
On the cab car note, I do recall reading or hearing somewhere that the BCH Cars were to retain the Harris cabs are run as a cab car for P class locos, but the idea got scrapped and they were just turned into a normal combination second class seating and guards van. I’m happy to be corrected, but I do remember reading that somewhere.
There isn't really a hard definition, but as a general rule Metros (or Subways for Americans) are separate dedicated systems in the city, which are not part of the main state/country railway network. The Paris Metro, London Underground, NY subway and Chicago El are all good examples, and there are many many more. Melbourne's suburban network on the other hand is just the inner part of the state railway network, which it is very much a part of. Nobody used the word 'metro' here until the operator was given that name in 2009.
Before RRL and platform 15&16 were constructed, did Gippsland trains depart platform 8? Or did they sometimes depart from the Dandenong group suburban platform (these days platform 12) Just realised if from platform 8, that would require lots of flat junction crossovers especially to reach the southern platforms at Flinders Street
They used to go off 8, but that stopped happening around maybe 2010ish. And yes, lots of flat junctions from there! After that they mostly used 13/14 I think.
@@Taitset departing from plat 13/14 would congest suburban lines not to mention would make N class runarounds for Bairnsdale quite tricky, they would probably have to go up to North Melbourne. I remember according to a picture of Wongm, it went all the way to Essendon platform 1 to run around. Thankfully thanks to RRL they always go from 15/16 these days
@@iainhughes4630 The usual practice was to run to South Kensington and run around down on the goods lines. The Essedon one is interesting! There were a lot less suburban trains on 13/14 back then, with Frankston & Werribee still running through the Loop full time.
Thanks for making this video, I’ve been working on a Melbourne Network in Minecraft, I’m around 20-30% of the way there, if it wasn’t for you I won’t be able to replicate this junction
Awesome!
You should make some RUclips videos on it, I would love to see the network
At a 1:1 scale?
@@ThisGuyCarlo yes, I’ve completed the entire Burnley Group, and the Sandringham Line, for the Burnley Group, there’s other tracks meaning they can be express trains
@@TE777M Sounds amazing!! You should definitely make yt videos or community posts with screenshots!
Great video. An interesting note on spion kop - back in the early 1900s there used to be a shunters cabin there and it was described as a windy desolate place. Many railwaymen at the time were veterans of the battle of Spion Kop in the boer war. The hill in Melbourne reminded them of the hill in the battle (being desolate) and so that’s how the place got its name. Today the cabin is long gone but the name survives! There’s a VR newsletter article about it somewhere although I couldn’t tell you the issue.
It's also the same landmark that the Kops, the big terraces at English football grounds like Anfield, Hillbsorough and Elland rd are named after
There is also Spion Kopje, a mountain ridge in the Victorian high country. I wonder if it's named for the same reason, by the builders of the Kiewa hydro scheme maybe?
@@AustShaun possibly, although Snowy Hydro was long after the Boer War so likely has a different origin.
@@FloydBromley Kiewa hydro and Snow Hydro are two entirely separate schemes and one is much older than the other.
@@hoverhead047 good catch. After looking at the dates it seems possible but would require further investigation. 35-40 odd years separated the two.
Just randomly watching this again and realised it’s already outdated!
The pair of crossovers for the Sunbury line near South Kensington have been ripped out. The Sunbury line now has no way of gaining access to North Melbourne platform 5/6.
My voiceover in this video was kindly recorded by my brother Cian, who happens to be a talented sound recordist and musician. Let's see if we can get his channel to 15 subscribers before mine gets to 10,000! -->> www.youtube.com/@cianbennet
Aye-aye, captain.
He’s at 15 now! [:
Haha amazing
Thanks everyone :))
@@cianbennet your deserve it! Your music is great
Great video
You should make an explainer about the new metro tunnel and other train line changes for 2025
Also happy new year
Yes please, and include how the train paths will change (improve) to create make operations more reliable.
Agreed maybe once it gets closer to completion
im in a taitset video mum!
The City Loop was a huge stuff-up when built and represents everything wrong with the Victorian Railways' way of thinking and planning at the time. Subsequent planning has continued this proud tradition of deliberately choosing the cheapest and worst option instead of the one with most future benefits to the network at a whole. Here's a list of things that could have been done better:
1) It should have been two through tracks to route some south-eastern services through to the north and west. The Clifton Hill lines never needed a loop-the old Princes Bridge was perfectly adequate and could have been upgraded to have higher throughput and quicker reversing of trains.
2) The loop reversal was implemented solely for the operational benefit of stabling trains in Jolimont Yards, and became irrelevant when the yards closed barely a decade later.
3) The portals at North Melbourne are in the wrong spot. They should have been positioned one track pair to the west, keeping tracks 1 and 2 free for long-distance services.
4) The Essendon flyover could have been designed to be a proper grade-separated junction, taking Broadmeadows trains over the Footscray lines. The Down long-distance track could have been routed under the flyover to join on the western side, eliminating the flat junction at Kensington. The Down Werribee line could have branched off and run to the south of the flyover, and the Up line could have come in under the flyover and joined where the junction is presently.
5) By the 1980s, suburban rail freight was almost non-existent. The complicated trackwork that used to exist could have been replaced with a dive that took Upfield trains under the St Albans and long-distance tracks, continuing below grade until Macaulay station to eliminate the level crossing.
6) The Dynon flyover could have been modified to ease the curves slightly, and rejoin the tracks from Southern Cross 15/16 between the Up and Down tracks, eliminating the flat junction at Spion Kop.
7) If the long distance tracks had continued on from North Melbourne 1/2, they could have been extended as the Regional Rail Link along the northern side, through the former Tottenham Yard, with a set of flying junctions to join the suburban lines on the Down side of Sunshine station. Longer-term planning could even have regauged these lines and separated them completely from the suburban network.
8) Like you stated in the video, V/line missed an opportunity to run push-pull services with a driving trailer. I believe Comeng suggested it at the time, and the unions promptly refused to even consider it due to some archaic rule about running trains in "reverse".
9) Most terminal stations in Europe and America do not have engine release roads. Southern Cross could have been rebuilt to remove those redundant roads and gained another terminal platform. The stabling yards in the middle of the station yard take up space that could be used to install higher-speed turnouts so trains wouldn't need to crawl at 30 km/h until past South Kensington.
I could probably add more, but RUclips comments aren't really meant for multiple-paragraph essays.
Hindsight is wonderful, isn't it?
The old Princes Bridge was _not_ adequate for through services, with two of the three platforms being dead end and no obvious/easy way to change that.
The loop reversal was not implemented solely for the operational benefit of the station yards. That one one motive, but the other was to discourage passengers from continuing to use the overcrowded Flinders Street station. With up trains going via the loop stations, passengers were encouraged to use the loop stations unless they really needed to use Flinders Street.
I don't see how the "Dynon" flyover should be modified to ease the curves. Doing that would essentially be a rebuild, not a modification.
Some of your other comments are not clear enough to me to be able to address whether they would have been a good idea or not.
@@PJRayment Princes Bridge would have been perfectly adequate for terminating services, and there is really no need for Clifton Hill group trains to proceed beyond Flinders St. It's always operated as a mostly-isolated branch, and the Clifton Hill Loop was built primarily for political reasons. The Melbourne Underground Rail project would have been better if it was a separate set of through tracks rather than four independent loops, and a priority project for PTV is reconfiguring the loop to provide exactly that. Why didn't they design it right the first time?
If Japanese and Swiss railways can have two-minute headways on dead-end lines with few platforms, then so can Melbourne. The Hankyu railway operates three lines each with their own three platforms (no track connections) out of Umeda Station in Osaka with far more trains than ever operated on the Clifton Hill group. Prior to late last year, the Sihltal Zürich Uetliberg railway operated trains on two branches each at ten-minute headways out of the underground terminal below Zürich Hbf, which doesn't seem to extraordinary except for the fact that both lines used a different overhead voltage so passing loops and double-track operations were extremely complicated. Both lines are predominantly single track once they diverge, and they still manage six trains per hour per direction.
The sharp curves on the North Melbourne / Dynon flyover are a root cause of the wheel wear problems that completely stuffed up V/line operations a couple of years ago. The original alignment was fine for occasional locomotive and empty carriage movements, but it is definitely not suitable for regular revenue services. The alignment through the yards there is convoluted and slow, and restricts train speeds until South Kensington. Compare this to the approach tracks from Zürich Hbf, which permit 110 km/h almost as soon as the trains leave the main station throat with numerous double-slip turnouts. V/line is limited to 30 or 40 km/h until after South Kensington, 80 km/h to Sunshine, and then gets stuck behind all-stops suburban services to Bendigo. If the Melton and Wyndham Vale lines are brought into the Metro network, which is going to be necessary sooner rather than later, then the RRL and RFR upgrades will be pointless without additional tracks. But the LXRA didn't bother to add any future-proofing infrastructure, so we're stuck with two tracks and no passing until someone can justify digging another set of trenches.
My other comments detail how V/line services could have been incrementally separated from suburban services with ease if the infrastructure had been built slightly differently. The main amendment that I'd make to the above is that the Upfield line should be elevated next to the CityLink motorway until after Flemington Bridge. The upgraded Flemington Bridge station could be located above Mount Alexander Rd, with a concourse at the current rail level allowing grade-separated pedestrian interchange with the trams and rail platforms on the level above.
@@zoqaeski
"Princes Bridge would have been perfectly adequate for terminating services,"
Only with considerable upgrades to the track and signalling. But okay, I was addressing the thought of making them through platforms, not of continuing to use them as dead-end platforms.
"It's always operated as a mostly-isolated branch, and the Clifton Hill Loop was built primarily for political reasons."
When the loop was opened, only selected trains used it. Now all trains (that use the loop at all) use the loop. You'd deprive the Clifton Hill passengers of using any station other than Flinders Street.
"The Melbourne Underground Rail project would have been better if it was a separate set of through tracks rather than four independent loops, ... Why didn't they design it right the first time?"
Because there was a lot more traffic on the eastern side than the western side, plus the location of Jolimont yard. As I said in my previous comment, hindsight is wonderful.
"Both lines are predominantly single track once they diverge, and they still manage six trains per hour per direction."
Whereas the Clifton Hill group has about 14 trains an hour in the peak hour. Your Udema example is valid, but not these ones.
"The sharp curves on the North Melbourne / Dynon flyover are a root cause of the wheel wear problems that completely stuffed up V/line operations a couple of years ago. The original alignment was fine for occasional locomotive and empty carriage movements, but it is definitely not suitable for regular revenue services."
You're arguing why the tracks need to be realigned. I never said that they didn't. I pointed out that realigning them would require a rebuild, not just modification.
Best lateral thinking I ever experienced on the network, inbound train had some issue at Spencer, reversed back to north Melbourne then went back to Spencer via a different track/platform, sure I was delayed by about half an hr but I was impressed we got moving
have been hoping for more of these junction explainer videos, happy to have gotten another! :D
Not being from Victoria, is there any reason why the Shepparton and Seymour trains don't use the RRL flyover coming out of Southern Cross, and then the underutilised flyover to Kensington north of North Melbourne? Would have thought that could remove a couple of unnecessary conflicts with the suburban services you mention.
It is possible to some extent, but is a bit limited - it's only a single track crossover between the Kensington flyover and the RRL at Spion Kop, so that's a potential bottleneck between up and down trains. Also, it's in a bit of a weird position, and you can't actually get from the Down RRL ex-platforms 1-8 across to Kensington. So it would only work for Up trains, or if they ran into 15/16.
@@Taitset ah I see! Thanks for that, this was very informative!
@@Taitset A while ago I took a Seymour service from 15/16 which surprised me as it's normally 6/7 which obviously used that high level connection. Being a Saturday, it didn't have too many conflicting services to deal with. Also back when Sheppartons were loco-hauled, Ups would sometimes divert at Kensington to use the high level/flyover but would end up usually on 3/4.
Hello, I am relatively new to your channel. Do you have a video explaining the freight network from the regional centres through to the ports? With stabling procedures?
Great to do one on how the freight system works. I always wondered how it all interconnects.
Since you mentioned the RRL, would that - and the "Fast Rail" - be potential follow-up explainer videos?
Yes both are possible future topics!
Thanks for a supremely informative video! Great stuff to hear how what I watch every day to and from work functions. And after spending over 20 years travelling through NM Station I finally learned here about the viewing platform!! THANK YOU!!!!!! 😊😊😊
Great video! It's so cool using this station a lot recently how it operates. Some great humour as well!
Great explainer Martin. Really interesting. Cheers!
This was a very good video! If you could talk about the upcoming train projects for Melbourne would be great!
How does Taitset not work as an advisor for a Victorian rail company ?? 🤣🤣
Only two trains a day to Sydney? Sounds like an American level of service!
Two between Adelaide a week, that is a story of great shame.
Very interesting, well produced video. I wonder whether it would be possible to redo north Melbourne with cross-platform interchange when the city loop is reconfigured - it’d be convenient, but disruptive I reckon.
Yeah good question, would certainly be good if they did!
mabye
14:18 Nice window there.
Was wondering if anyone would notice that!
What an outstanding video Martin! A really well put together and just an excellent presentation!
Funny you mention about the three north lines all being yellow, I live on the Upfield line, and more frequently than I would have thought I have people who have caught the wrong train thinking it would take them to say Craigieburn!
Once again, excellent video! Have a fantastic new year!
Thanks Will! Yeah it's a shame they didn't give every line its own colour like most other cities. I guess it would have been hard to draw the loop like that though! I've definitely seen a few people out on the Hurstbridge line who think they're going to Mernda.
Here in Adelaide there's a similar problem, with lines that share tracks being grouped as one colour, however it's sorta mitigated by there being announcements before the station where the two lines split saying "Change here for trains to: (other line)"
Extremely well explained and a very interesting watch. Seeing how easily you were able to dissect a very complicated maze of tracks, junctions and tunnels, I imagine that you are also a whiz at untangling the Christmas lights each year
Haha it must use a different part of the brain, I always have to get my partner to untangle the lights!
My comment is in someone else's youtube video - life goal acheived! And great video as always, thanks so much Martin for explaining this stuff so well.
Maybe for your next junction explanation video you could do the crossovers to the west of flinders street to southern cross
Wow! Well done Martin. 👍
P.S. Is it true or a myth that a Vline service accidentally made it's way into the City Loop?
Yes, it's happened at least two or three times that I'm aware of! Not sure if it's ever happened from North Melbourne, but it's certainly happened from the Richmond end into the Caulfield loop. Most recently was only a few years ago with a VLocity, and there was a video of it taken by a passenger coming up the ramp into Southern Cross.
I like the part about the Southern Cross name. Makes zero geographical sense. They should have kept it as Spencer St. Imagine renaming Flinders St as Orion or Andromeda. I'm still pushing for Domain to remain as the official name for the new underground station at the Domain junction, but it seems like Anzac is set in stone.
I still call it spencer st 😅 mostly because i have fond memories of the old station in the 90's, and also because changing the name of the biggest station in the state, to something nearly irrelevent (its not a flag nor is victoria the capital 😂) annoys me haha
@@Colt45hatchback Let's all call it Spencer Street forever!
Hello All,
1/Martin, you have made an excellent video, thank you.
2/ Spion Kop once had a shunters cabin as preWW2, ( and for some time after ) North East Goods trains ( as then called, freight trains are a bit modern ! ) used to run up the Essendon ( later Broadmeadows, now Craigeburn ) line into Melbourne Yard, and I have been informed that some NE Goods trains had to wait at Spion Kop for permission to enter Melbourne Yard.The location nameplate for Spion Kop is a recent provision, and I have been told by retired Melbourne Yard shunters that the name was semi official for many years.
2a/ The 2nd Boar War, 1899-1902, made some, and cost many reputations, as well as a large loss of life, it also gave us the Concentration Camp. Post WW2, such places were then called Protected Villages. Spion Kop coincided with railway expansion, as did the 1896-1899 Klondike Gold Rush, hence the naming of railway facilities around the British Empire after these newsworthy locations.
3/ some NE Goods trains assessed Melbourne Yard via Somerton and Upfield for the Coburg line ( as then called ), and from 1977 till the late 1980s, the Ford train, with BFW / VBCW, palletised car parts box vans, ran between Geelong and Campbellfield via Melbourne Yard and Essendon.By the late 1980s, these trains were replaced by B Double semi trailers.
4/behind the extant former North Melbourne Junction Signal Box ( once home to a pistol; grip electro-mechanical frame) was the Arden St cement sidings, and Way&Works sidings. The cement train used to run from Fyansford to Arden St using CJ /CJF /VHCA bogie hopper wagons as a block load ( block trains are not a 1960s invention, except by the PR people ! ).
5/ the 4w J, and bogie JX / VPAX/VPBX/VPCX air pressure discharge cement wagons went to Fyansford in Down Geelong Goods trains from Melbourne Yard, and generally returned to Melbourne Yard in up Geelong Goods, as these cement wagons served the Dandenong Line for Humes Concrete at Westall with bogie JX, Rocla at Spring Vale with 4w J, Dandenong Cement Siding and Lyndhurst (?) with JX .Palletized bagged cement was delivered in BLF bogie box vans to various locations including Oakleigh and Dandenong.
6/Spencer St Pass yard was once electrified and was shunted by 1100-1101 steeple cab electric, and E1102-E1111 boxcab electric locomotives.( I was fortunate to enter inside E1111 when it was shunting at Spring Vale, all the electrics between the cabs were closed off with cyclone fencing ! )
7/ for a short interim period Spencer St was Southern Cross Spencer St.. The Signal Box and associated circuit plans are still marked Spencer St / SSS due to the high cost, for no practical benefit, of renaming all the drawings.
8/both Spencer St platforms 7&8 were electrified and used by Coburg Line services which once terminated at Spencer St.Later on the Eastern Passes arrived and departed Spencer St Plat 8 for Flinders St Plat 1c via the Parcels Viaduct/PV, later City Circle Clifton Hill Viaduct / CHL. This arrangement outlasted the superb English Electric(EE) L1150-L1174 class locomotives.
9/in the 1920s1930s some Geelong Passes ( including the Geelong Flyer ) hauled by VR A2 class steam locomotives, ran between Spencer St Plat 8 to Flinders St 1c. Steam hauled Geelong trains also used to run off Spencer St plats 6&7.
10/The diesel hauled Werribee Passes used to run of Spencer St Plat7, hauled by either a W class ( brave decision ! ) or a Y class diesel if a Rail Motor or DERM was not available. The W class also tried to haul the Southern Aurora, the Spirit of Progress, or the Inter Capital Daylight across the flyover to Spencer St. More often than not, the W class, even occasionally double headed, gave up the ghost somewhere on the flyover, so eventually either an S or X class diesel, which became the train engine, was used to dock the empty cars from South Dynon Car Sheds, originally especially built for the SG Passes.
11/ Pre the 1980s, the VR ran Special Show trains from the eastern suburbs direct to the Showgrounds, as well as some Eastern, and South Eastern Passes direct to the Showgrounds. Race Specials also ran between Flinders St to Flemington Racecourse. Race traffic in particular is now much diminished, as are crowds at the Races these days. The VR stopped running Race trains to places like Caulfield and Sandown Park due to a significant fall off in demand in the late 1970s.
Regards to all.
Can you make an explanation at the flinders streets viaduct?
Why not complete the trilogy with Flinders St/ Southern Cross junction?
Yes I do plan to at some point!
Why is there a random bit of SG-only trackage on the far northern side of the station?
I think it's for interstate trains, such as the XPT or overland
It looks so confusing on the ground x3
Thanks for sharing how it works!!!
Curious if you'd be keen to make one of Adelaide's junction?
Yeah I might do Adelaide at some point!
@@Taitset Awesome, thanks!
From what I understand and see, there is quite a lot of flat junctions and wonder how/if a flyover would help improve network efficiencies x3
Many thanks for this - it's great to have a clear and careful explanation of this complex piece of railway. It's also interesting to see how it's changed since I visited in 2007: the Regional Rail flyover must make a big difference to operations.
I rode on the flyover on the day (accidentally, no planning whatsoever was involved in lining that up) RRL opened. The train screeched and groaned over the tracks. And weeks later they had to pull the service while they worked out what to do to not get the wheels and rail to wear so prematurely.
Good to see Australia is full of such good political decisions that we still have 160km/h trains limited to not much more than walking pace for the entire duration of the the switching yards. I bet you there's a video in that - why did this service feel like riding a mechanical bull despite going 5km/h, but when you ride through equivalent switching yards in Germany, the ride is plush and done at >60km/h, with no accompanying screeching?
I’m from Adelaide but I’ve been fascinated with Victoria trains for over a decade. I’m also a 50% North Melbourne fan in the AFL and always been interested in Melbourne junctions like NM and Richmond junctions. Thank you for explaining this junction
I’m a north fan… it hurts
@@RIPmichael22 I feel like we need a support group. North Melbourne fans Anonymous
Great video and will help with 1:87 HO Layout of South Cross and other major stations and if you can make the junction map a downloadable Image with all the track but e.g., Sidings in Orange, up lines in red, and down blue. or can you tell how you made the map so I can recreate? because I lost a Rolling line Layout of South Cross and other stations in a 6 km radius.
Some V/line trains I’ve ridden on do the big departure from Southern Cross and then come to a stand next to Franklin Street for up to 5 minutes.
When L classes were running, there were trains to the Showgrounds or Flemington that ran from Gippsland. On the Show map there used to be a “country platform” which was opposite the Flemington race platform along with four tracks between them.
When you said Vline missed an opportunity, the feeling I perceived in the early ‘80s was that the Liberal (conservative) government reluctantly ran country trains under sufferance but realized that carrying out the Lonie Report recommendations of cancelling all country passenger services would be political suicide. When the Labor Cain government took over, the Transport Minister Steve Crabb reinstated some services. I’m not sure which government created the push-pull P class services and the Sprinter rail car order was too far ahead for the Liberal (ultra conservative) Kennett government to cancel it.
Best thing that Kennett did was to reinstate the Echuca and Maryborough services.
Awesome video man. I wish you a prosperous 2023. 😊😊🎉🎉
Re cab cars in the H sets, the original concept from Newsrails at the time was either a loco in the middle of a carriage set, with cabs both ends, or a fixed loco at one end and driving cab at the other end. Both ideas were knocked back because crews at the time were concerned about crashworthiness and signal visibility from the single windows of the ex-M cars that became BCHs.
Southern cross kinda makes me sad. Theres so many awesome things about Spencer Street, I wish I could have seen it. Southern Cross' best feature is the way you can see all the platforms at once from the balconies, but other than that I think its a pretty ugly place. Especially that gharish roof.
Why didnt they give it a flat roof to build on top of?
Spion Kop was the site of an engagement in the 2nd Boer War.
Why did Vline change from red to purple? The red and blue looked so much better
If only they could electrify V/Line
I still find myself calling it spencer street station.
Dear Martin, any chance of a video of the model railway layout displayed at 13.12+ please? Even in its under construction phase it looks quite interesting, and I am sure that I am not the only one interested, best wishes and regards.
Hi Phillip, there's a brief overview of it here: ruclips.net/video/F8LzvSLBOp8/видео.html
Great Explainer! I was thinking that maybe you'd want to make a video that explains all the little junctions on the network like Camberwell, Burnley, etc. You'd only have to do a small one minute segment for each junction.
Not a bad idea, I will put it on the list!
Great video, thanks for the explainer!
Fantastic video, thank you! Clear and concise and very well put together. Would have been a great resource in my days as a train driver. Any chance you will do a video on the freight side of things in Melbourne? Plenty of confusion and changes over the years, so making something current would be a challenge. Hope you accept said challenge?!? 🙂
Glad you enjoyed it! I've had quite a few people asking about freight, I might have to put something together!
11:04 Yes I have been living under a rock.
This is amazing and easy to understand!
Can you do Adelaide Central Station, too?
I'd never thought about Nth Melbourne station actually being in West Melbourne until now.
its supposed to be renamed west Melbourne soon.
@@chrisj6321 It _was_ supposed to be renamed West Melbourne, to free the name for the nearby station in the new tunnel, but that idea has been scrapped, with North Melbourne retaining the name and the new station being called Arden.
I'm surprised someone cultured enough to make a play on the name "Denny Crane" would call you such nasty things
Perhaps their real name is Denny Grate?
12:20, this should happen with the Overland, Indian Pacific and many other classic locomotive hauled passenger trains in Australia. This would erase the time it takes for the locomotive to turn around and there would be more time for other trains to use platforms.
14:17 N463, The locomotive in the Broadmeadows Runaway
When I was a lad and still living in the Netherlands, around 1989, beginning of the 1990s, trains were still loco-hauled. Mind, these locomotives were from the 1950s. These days practically all passenger trains are EMUs, and those that aren't have a loco on either side. They also have a cab car before one of the locos, but these are incompatible and since the rolling stock is from the early 1980s, it's not worth rebuilding them (the cab cars themselves being rebuilt from a normal carriage after some 20 years). It's quaint to see the old-fashioned way of doing things.
Chances of me visiting Melbourne are near zero (it's too far, my wife has family living in that other city that I won't mention, and we're both too old) but I enjoy your videos.
Just wanted to check which platforms the Traralgon VLine services use, as they run through Flinders St too.
Mentioned at 08:56 - they run off 15 and 16.
@@Taitset Ah thanks
The viewing platform is a good place for trainspotting, likewise the La Trobe St bridge. Both used by me when we were in Melbourne in 2015.
Hi from NZ,
Anthony
Sadly the La Trobe St bridge now has fencing blocking most of the view. There are a few small holes big enough to stick a lens through, but's it's not quite as nice as it used to be!
Spion Kop is a Boer War reference by the way. An interesting survival. Great video Martin, you had my head spinning.
Your videos are PTV level quality, ofc streamlined by some cuz ill trust that the sidings are just spurted inbetween everywhere there, but still very comprehensable and cleanly visualised
I remember it when it was Spencer Street. Caught the train here through the 90’s and early 00’s from Adelaide. I miss 90’s Melbourne.
Such an interresting and complex system. Thanks for the video.
Great explanation as usual, thanks. Sadly dmus will reign.
Ohhhhhh.....so THAT'S what trains looked like.
Currently a large number of services are down....
Are services down alot there, I’ve never been but will be once this year, I’ve used Sydney trains most trips
Brilliant video and explainer! Thanks so much!!!
At 10:45 you showed the convoluted route taken by the Albury SG trains getting to Southern Cross, I also found an in-cab video of the entire nearly 4 hour journey available here: ruclips.net/video/N8gIbVGe-Hs/видео.html
Nice video. You should make a explainer on the Flinders Street viaduct.
R.e. 13:22 - funny you should say that, I literally saw a Comeng on that platform today
Discovered the viewing platform just in time to watch the fireworks from there thanks to your video! Great content as always homie
Southern Cross is also a long way from Southern Cross the town in WA which has a railway station as well
Amazing video and a Great new year present Martin! Thanks and wish you a great year ahead in 2023!
Great vid
are these graphics avaliable for download? they look really cool!
I'll have to go and check out the viewing platform
hey martin, in the final shot of this video you can see the 1600mm and 1435mm gauge track together on the top of the bridge, but there's also a third much smaller gauge in between those two -- what is that track for?
Great question! The two inner rails are just check rails - designed to stop a train deviating too far (ie off the bridge) if it derails.
My dad built some of the roof of the station in the early 2000s
Really enjoyed this video, thanks for this
amazing video! :)
would love to see what's going on at burnley too!
8:32 I'm sure you probably do actually know what it means, but spion kop means "spy hill" in Afrikaans, usually like a hunting shelter of observation post. I don't know if there's any meaning behind that choice though.
(funnily enough I only know this fact via Perun, another Aussie RUclipsr, and his use of the Oryx information service)
Apparently the junction was named by railwaymen in the early 1900s who had fought in the battle of Spion Kop ( en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Spion_Kop )
The junction is up on a small hill, and apparently reminded them of the hill from the battle!
I’ve been to the North Melbourne flyover and the amount of trains whey in a really short time is epic
Great Video, and wow the junction is massive when you put it in a perspective such as you have, with the junction working around the city loop I wonder how tf it's working with the city loop being closed for a little now... The Clifton Hill Corridor probably doesn't even go to Southern Cross now, prob just terminates at Flinders Street then go back
Correct, Clifton Hill/Burnley/Caulfield are all terminating at Flinders Street. The Northern Group lines are running through to Flinders Street, and are able to make use of the other tracks normally used by Burnley/Caulfield trains.
This is a great explainer video. Thanks for putting it together. I just had one question about North Melbourne. Similar to what I was wondering about at Richmond and South Yarra, when the Metro Tunnel opens and Sunbury trains no longer use the station, what trains will use platforms 3 and 4? Perhaps Upfield and Craigieburn trains will be split between the two sets of platforms, but wouldn't that create conflict with the crossovers on the down side of the station allowing access to those lines? What is your take on this?
Yeah my guess is they would put Craigieburn through 3&4 most of the time. That fully separates it from Upfield at the down end (see diagram at 06:32) which removes opposing direction clashes. But you still have the clashes with Seymour/Shepp trains.
Great video thanks for uploading. Were do you get your diagrams from. It’s very well done.
Thanks! I draw the diagrams in photoshop.
Thanks for making this vid, it is gonna help so much in the long run
This is amazing. Well done for this great video!
This was a great video, could you please tell me where you got the information to make the track diagram?
For some parts I used the Vicsig line guides as a reference: ( vicsig.net/index.php?page=infrastructure§ion=lineguide )
But I worked a lot out either via satellite imagery, or my own photos - and there were a few bits under the roof where I just had to go and look with my eyes!
My brain thought of a double meaning of the name Southern Cross. Not only is it named after the southern cross constalation. But it is the major crossing point of all trains in the Southern part of Australia
I also suspect they were wanting to draw a connection to a much more famous rail terminal: Kings Cross
On the cab car note, I do recall reading or hearing somewhere that the BCH Cars were to retain the Harris cabs are run as a cab car for P class locos, but the idea got scrapped and they were just turned into a normal combination second class seating and guards van. I’m happy to be corrected, but I do remember reading that somewhere.
That certainly would have been a logical way of doing it!
Excellent video to end the year of to!
Why is Melbourne's inner city train system not technically a metro
There isn't really a hard definition, but as a general rule Metros (or Subways for Americans) are separate dedicated systems in the city, which are not part of the main state/country railway network. The Paris Metro, London Underground, NY subway and Chicago El are all good examples, and there are many many more. Melbourne's suburban network on the other hand is just the inner part of the state railway network, which it is very much a part of. Nobody used the word 'metro' here until the operator was given that name in 2009.
Excellent explanation thanks!
Does Brisbane have any complex junctions on its network the way Sydney and Melbourne do?
The area around Roma St is pretty interesting, I might eventually do a video on it.
@@Taitset That would be interesting for sure.
Great video
Before RRL and platform 15&16 were constructed, did Gippsland trains depart platform 8? Or did they sometimes depart from the Dandenong group suburban platform (these days platform 12)
Just realised if from platform 8, that would require lots of flat junction crossovers especially to reach the southern platforms at Flinders Street
They used to go off 8, but that stopped happening around maybe 2010ish. And yes, lots of flat junctions from there! After that they mostly used 13/14 I think.
@@Taitset departing from plat 13/14 would congest suburban lines not to mention would make N class runarounds for Bairnsdale quite tricky, they would probably have to go up to North Melbourne. I remember according to a picture of Wongm, it went all the way to Essendon platform 1 to run around. Thankfully thanks to RRL they always go from 15/16 these days
@@iainhughes4630 The usual practice was to run to South Kensington and run around down on the goods lines. The Essedon one is interesting! There were a lot less suburban trains on 13/14 back then, with Frankston & Werribee still running through the Loop full time.
@@Taitset actually I found the essendon movement on vicsig, not wongm. Soz
Bus replaces train services. Been the story for years