He was clearly determined to kill himself, wasn’t he? At least he didn’t take his family and friends with him-unlike most of these accident case studies where the pilot’s poor judgment costs...well, everything. Everything.
Indeed! Compared to the other ATC from this series, we really can't point the finger at anyone here. They tried to get the guy to give up several times. And he was already more than illegal when flying 300 feet above. I don't understand this one!
@@LeantoPeak he was rolling the dice. People do it. What i hate is when people see behavior they don't understand, their knee-jerk reaction is to create some law.
PILOT: How's it looking? ATC: Really bad, visibility 1/2 mile, ceilings at 500 feet, heavy snow. PILOT: Good to go! ATC: VFR flight not reccomended. New forecast: Blizzard warnings. All passes. PILOT: I'll just slide back in and slide back out. ATC: Also, mutiple tornado warnings and wind shear alerts. PILOT: Nice and clear right here! I can see for miles! ATC: 5 Russian Mig-15's out of your northwest. PILOT: I'll just poke along the highway here.
ATC: “There is actually 2 hurricanes converging along your flight path, wind variable at 150G200KT..... also reports of softball size hail. There is heavy volcanic ash and a solar eclipse over you path, it will be dark for 2 min.” Pilot: “I can still see the road here, let me just fly over and check it out, maybe I’ll turn around if it looks too bad.”
The thing that struck me is the high quality and helpful nature of the ATC and flight services, all advising similar things and giving him every opportunity to make a good decision.
And that's their #1 job. Relay as much information as possible to the pilot and let them make the decision. They even went above and beyond advising him FOUR separate times not to fly VFR into Provo/Spanish Fork but he just wanted to "take a peek" and "slide back out" if there's trouble. Arrogance cost him his life.
Whoever produces these videos is doing an incredible job with relatively simple tools. The suspense is engaging without being distracting, and the lessons and points come across crystal clear. Very, very well done.
If you think these are impressive, you’ll fall out of your chair when you see the latest videos coming out of the USCSB (Chemical Safety Board) ruclips.net/user/uscsb or ruclips.net/user/uscsb one of these two. They have a world class narrator and state of the art, highly detailed computer re-creations unlike anything you’ve ever seen!
Alternate (fictional) ending: The pilot, realizing that life is precious and he didn't actually have to be in Spanish Fork that day, located the Evanston airport with difficulty. He executed a high-pucker-factor but safe approach and landing. Upon shutdown he exited the aircraft, kissed the ground, and arranged for an overnight tiedown and ride into town. He had an excellent dinner, spent a quiet night in a warm hotel room and had a good night's sleep. After a hearty breakfast the pilot returned to the airport, took off, and enjoyed an uneventful, magnificent flight through scenic country, arriving at his destination by noon.
Some people just don’t get it, and roll the dice throughout their lives. Some live, some die. But they will consider only the stories of the ones who live. They’ve adopted the “It always happens to someone else” attitude and the sad thing is, they don’t even realize they’re doing it. RIP.
"I'll just drop in and take a peak." This is one of the most important videos any pilot should watch. The sheer pride, egotism, and total lack of professionalism by this pilot made this a literal suicide mission. Just for giggles I reproduced this trip with the exact METAR in Xplane 11 and it was literally a nightmare. In order to make it I had to scud run the highway in the canyon the entire time and almost crashed multiple times. I ended up making it but in real life I would have never taken this flight with those METARs.
@@banjo2019 You should tone down the arrogance, actually... He was told before he ever took off that his flight was not advised, and how many different controllers, flight service, and other aircraft, told him that he was making a fatal mistake attempting what he attempted? He showed his arrogance in other facets as well, if you take a wider look at it -- he attained his commercial and was not a low-time pilot, but apparently didn't think he needed his instrument rating, because he could just "pick his way along" mere hundreds of feet above the ground, in mountainous terrain? This man's death gave a crystal clear look of why VFR pilots should never fly anywhere near IMC, if the fact that VFR into IMC has been and will likely remain the #1 killer in aviation didn't make that completely obvious.
One of my favorite kills. This guy ticks me off with his arrogance and stupid phrases like "pick my way along" and "slide in there and take a peek" all with his cowboy accent. His best contribution to society is his death account.
Many years ago I'm riding in the back of my father's and his partners K35 Bonanza. At that time my father had around 26,000 flight hours and his partner was approaching 30,000+hrs as he approached the end of his commerical career. We're in central Idaho flying into a cabin we owned on a small primitive strip, I was 17 and had just soloed the month before. The Bonanza had a full avionics panel so I felt confident we would transverse the terrain and arrive within an hour. We were flying VFR around 8500ft. They asked for weather up dates as the trip progressed and the weather began to detoriate. Finally we received a report the ceiling was 9500ft in our imediate location and was continuing to decrease. Dennis who was flying left seat turned to my father and said "What do you think William?" "Shall we leave this to the more experienced pilots?" My father responded: "You know D,G (Dennis's initials) "I was thinking the samething, besides I know this fabulous steak house in Boise that has the best prime rib!" Besides "Dad responded) this front will blow through by morning and we'll likely awaken to clear skys and not a ripple! Which we did! Dennis said to be to my Dad (directing the question towards me) what don't we ever do? My dad responded: never put yourself in a situation where it takes 100% of your ability to get out of it, because sooner or later you're going to need one percent more than what you have, and you're going to bust you ass!
I'm a sailor with tens of thousands of miles and decades under my keel. I love the "Shall we leave this to more expereinced pilots" quote! Seems like I'm always trying to talk new sailors on the dock out of putting to sea in dicey conditions. They simply don't understand the power and fury the sea is capable of unleashing, even with a GOOD forecast. The only times I'll take on such conditions is if A) I'm sea-trialing / shaking down my boat for a long passage after making numerous upgrades that require testing in strong conditions, or B) I'm caught out in them unexpectedly. Prudent seamen avoid bad weather when possible. Fools charge out into it thinking they are invincible. Sooner or later, they get their asses handed to them by the sea. I watch these air-accident videos because I figure I still have a lot to learn about safety, and especially the mindset and preparation that creates it.
@@TheWilliamHoganExperience My advice from my true story : I lived in a Port town when Hurricane Bob showed up. My friend's 40 foot wooden sailboat was on a mooring a short drive from the Bar that I lived above. It stayed open, got busy that night and my friend and his friend were there, called me to join them then wanted my help "to check the boat". I found that a bit odd but trusted them. The protected Harbor was rather calm but dark. The boat looked fine except we saw just one side. Now these clowns "want help" paddling to it to check the other side. Still trusting what they said, I joined them. Next we boarded the boat but now these 2 clowns slip the mooring and put out. When I ask what they're doing he tells me that they're going to take it out. I looked at them like they're idiots and reminded them that a Hurricane has come to town and they only think that they are smarter than meteorologists. We just clear the Jetty and you can see a Coast Guard vessel at the mouth of the nearby river apparently assisting a larger ship. We're now in 8 to 10 foot swells in a wooden sailboat with a diesel that had a history of stalling and not restarting for a long while... and both of them had experienced that several times. Having lived near the sea, it turned out to be less rough than I thought it would be but the 2 guys who tricked me into all of this began to panic. We got back okay because they kept their heads but I was pretty angry that after ignoring me, they decided the sea, in a hurricame, was too rough. My advice for you when you pick a crew or are picked for a crew is this : The "don't worry" crowd is not a group to rely on. They are not prepared. It was a surprise for me given that the engine of that 40 ft sailboat had quit on a different trip, just offshore from some rocks. It started and ran again after all their efforts either worked or the flooded carburetor had enough time to drain. Either way the results were; no panic, no outside help and we resumed the trip. Those 2 guys were the same people with me for Hurricane Bob and I lost a lot of respect for both of them being so deliberately foolish and then suddenly; more worried than me. That's where they seem to match this Pilot in this video. My guess is that previous trips to the same destination had worked before and so, no more prepared than perhaps previous flights, this guy tried again and he was remarkably close to his destination yet along the way, the option he kept talking about (turning around) ended as he began following the interstate through the valley. When finallly, he turned back he had zero visibility, he lacked visual references and was surrounded by rising terrain, dropping ceiling and precipitation/likely icing conditions. Too late for anything but a landing on the Interstate where there was hopefully no overpass. All along his route he ignored the advice of more experienced people (with regard to the weather). He finally changed his mind far later than the 2 idiots I went unintentionally sailing with. But they (and I) lived.
I'm reminded of an old 'The Far Side' cartoon where one pilot turns to his copilot and says "Hey, what's that mountain goat doing up here in the clouds?" I just wish common sense were more common.
LOL, yes, that's one of my favourites. Along with Santa plastered on the nose of a 747 with one pilot asking the other how they're going to explain this to their kids.
Mine is the helo pilot looking down on the castaway where part of the letter "P" has been lost, and the pilot radios, "No, cancel that; I guess it says 'HELF'"
PILOT: 'How's it looking?" ATC: "Visibility is zero, 165 knot gusts, hurricanes, severe icing reported, earthquakes, blizzards" PILOT: "I can almost see my prop. So Im just gonna poke in and have a look"
@@nofurtherwest3474 this is an almost identical situation as the Kobe crash, except that in this case the pilot was trying to avoid IMC all the way till he crashed, whereas in the Kobe case, the pilot, most likely, knowing that he was instrument rated, tried to climb into the clouds to avoid the terrain, but still crashed because he became spatially disoriented and lost control of the craft. In the end, it was the same result! Also, In the accident involving Kobe, even though the pilot was instrument rated, he was most likely not instrument *_current._* Instrument skills are highly perishable, and that is why one needs to be practice them on a regular basis, and there are Instrument currency rules as to how often that needs to be done! Besides that, the sudden transition from VFR to IFR, when faced with IMC, very likely caught him off guard, causing him to be disoriented!
@@747-pilot I see, thanks. I wonder in this case, why didn't the pilot just emergency land on the freeway? I know it would not have been ideal, maybe would have caused an accident, but wouldn't that have been his best option?
This is the third time I've watched this. It still creeps me out. A huge thanks for creating this not-so-gentle-reminder to drop the get-there-itis in the trash before takeoff...
Pete Kuhns - I just took medical retirement from a long term employer that operated in such a wreckless manner, resulting in numerous OTJ injuries, some deaths and a bizarre property damage rate. The 'get'er done' mindset was/is so extreme I felt it be a corporate 'mental illness'. On top of a declining personal income due to are best paying work being increasingly farmed out, we had to put up with a bit of 'social engineering' in regard to sexual orientation, political and race issues. Those of us who wanted common sense practices and corporate accountability were/are nothing more than 'haters', 'probable nazis', 'homophobes', 'Trump Supporters' (my favorite!) and the usual labels typically used in attempts to intimidate. My health suffered greatly; attorneys were brought in and the state labor board ruled in my favor. Came away with a bit of cash, SSDI and looking at early retirement in less than 6 months. Forgive me for writing a book but I see (and have lived through) these situations all too often, especially in aviation accidents.
I have been a clear wx pilot for years...if I see a cloud within 20 miles...I stay on the ground... (: kidding aside,this guy should have known better to do this.
Pete Kuhns It wasn’t his lack of IFR ability or currency that finished his flight, it was his lack of VFR ABILITY. Leaving aside questions of legality for a moment, it was probably reasonably possible for him to continue VFR and make it by putting about 20* of flaps down-- for better forward visibility, and lower stall speed. Then descend as much as necessary to merely keep the road in sight while in slow flight-- say 50’ above it ( to avoid any semis’ on it). Wires are another matter, if any, but he’s hanging it out here anyway. If the road was closed there’d be no traffic , so he could have just taxied on after landing ( as another commenter mentioned!) No , just kidding! But continuing , seriously for a moment, as long as he had the road in sight and continued in COORDINATED FLIGHT with an airspeed that gave him reasonable protection against gusts, he’d probably have made it. If he’d slipped the turns he would slip onto the road- - If he skidded them he would skid into the trees or canyon walls or whatever the lateral obstacles were at the time.I doubt icing was a problem for him, because the precip seemed to be already frozen.
@@davidwhite8633 You are suffering from the same kind of thought process that killed this pilot. You are replacing the fact that sometimes zero visibility can reach to ground level with your desire to have some visibility above ground level that would allow flight to continue.
Yeah, why do we allow people who don’t have instrument ratings to fly airplanes? In this case, no one else got injured, so I don’t care, but there’s numerous cases where they’ve crashed in the houses on the ground and killed people on the ground. What is the FAA thinking?
I've actually done something similar. I and some of my collogues spent a few weeks trying to help somebody get himself out of a hole. He didn't listen. On the up side, he didn't die, he just got himself kicked out of the Navy. I still wish he would have listened to us.
@@johnkuipers7829 Then there are a lot of 'dumb comments' on here. There are bad mistakes and there are fatal mistakes that could have been easily avoided had you just listened.
That really might help! Had a discussion with a pilot about deicing the plane or not. When the flight was ready for departure, I said: "Bye for now, see you at the end of the Runway!" - The aircraft got deicing...
@@johnkuipers7829 Robert's comment was not dumb. The pilot was told FOUR TIMES to not do what he was doing (and I believe by 3 different parties). This pilot clearly knew more than everyone else...turns out he was just plain dead wrong...pun intended.
Sad, this reminds me when I flew with my student on a cross country flight to Watsonville along the West coast. Airport reported overcast at 1100 , visibility 10+, overcast layer covered the whole area of about 20 mile radius of the airport including Monterey. But inland was severe clear. I knew we would not be going to Watsonville and will divert, but I let him fly it anyway to see what he was going to do. Upon approach he gets the ATTIS. Then I start asking him questions. 1- are going to Watsonville? Yes 2- what the ceilings? 1100' overcast 3- what the TPA? 1000' 4-How you going to get below the ceiling? (Only option was over the ocean to the West. The overcast covered the whole valley area and we would not be able to get below the overcast for the mountains were in the way preventing our descent from the West, North, and Southern areas). Over the ocean and then come in, the area is at / near sea level. 5- how far out over the ocean are you planning to fly to get under the overcast? As needed but looks like just 3-5 miles (which is correct the overcast extended over the ocean for about 3 or 5 miles. 6- So you are going to fly at 600 feet to stay legal over water and then continue over land for another 5 miles or so dodging obstructions while looking an airport that you have never flown to? Yes 7- and if your (single) engine fails? (No answer) 8- then I said NO! We do not scud run when it's not an emergency. And since it is not then we will divert before it becomes an emergency. So we diverted to Hollister. And thence started our diversion portion of the training. Yeah we needed to work ADM. Always better to play it safe then do something stupid and get away with it because some day you won't.
@@amandam1137 It's not enough to just know the correct answer. You need to know WHY it's the correct answer, and what can/will happen as a result of those decisions.
@@amandam1137 This was not not a trick question... he was picking his student's brain about the his thought process that needs to go into the ADM process... This is an excellent real world situation and I'm sure the student learned from that. Putting all of the individual rules and safety practices into play with a real world flight is the best kind of learning moment from new students.
I remember watching this when I was 17 and starting my pilot training. The most dangerous thing in aviation isn’t terrain, weather, engine failures, etc; it’s *complacency.* RIP to the deceased aviator, and may his accident inspire others to not makes similar mistakes.
As I watched it, I kept saying "land on the road". That was his only chance. Even a climb into the clouds could have resulted in missing a turn in the pass and impacting the high surrounding terrain.
That was his last out, yes. But he had plenty before - starting from not even taking this journey with those weather reports to landing at Evanston (9:37) where he already was flying way low to stay VFR, but could've made the airport no problem...
Such great videos, really well done. These need to be mandatory viewing for ALL pilots who fly GA. Such a waste of life, why dont these pilots heed the warnings of ATC? on another note, what a cool use of FSX to reconstruct these.
It's really scary that not only did the Flight Service warn him about the bad weather conditions, and ATC multiple times through them selves as well as through Delta. Always the best to not go when they recommend against VFR, he could've easily done the flight another day. =(
"So, the sooner the better." It wasn't an accident, it was a suicide. Because, holy heck, so many of these vids the pilot seems absolutely determined to die, but this guy? Was a man of focus, commitment, and... Sheer. Freaking. Will.
I have. A non ifr pilot CHOSE to fly his helicopter into ifr while the chopper was on the ground. Waiting it out inside the helicopter was the perfect choice. Two dead, one seriously injured.
You enter IMC, step 1, Climb... and keep climbing until your *at least* 1,000 above highest terrain. Step 2, contact tower, advise of a return, Step 3, execute a 180, Step 4, trust your controls, ignore your senses. Step 5, turn in your license upon landing for not listening to ATC's warnings.
Let's say you're not IFR trained. You lose visibility and climb into the clouds. Contact tower. They will vector you out of the IMC right? And even if you're not IFR rated, you should be able get above the terrain and hand fly to the heading given I'm assuming... just wonder why VFR pilots going into IMC don't ask for help...
Probably a pride thing. Im the man i can fly blindfoled with one arm tied behind my back i can handle Zero visibility white out conditons by zigzagging over drivers on a highway only 100 feet above their heads i got this im da man.
@@mikedavis7065 A non- instrument trained pilot won't be able to even keep the plane upright in an extended soup run trying to follow a vector. Most untrained pilots start entering a spiral dive within seconds in true zero vis. The limited instrument time for a private pilot license is really zero help.
I flew with a guy that was sort of like that--although he was an IFR-rated pilot, and (at one time) was a great stick. Then he busted minimums one too many times, and flew into high terrain. He was bold, but didn't grow old.
@@markyashchyshyn2647 Im curious about this, if you stick to your compass and your artificial horizon wouldn't you be able to keep the plane level? or is it that the confusion is too great to let you stick to the instruments only?
"If there's any trouble I'll slide right out of it." gary bulwinkle my thought was drugs or money but you may be right too. There is an illicit reason behind his madness.
@@knowsmebyname I wonder if they found anything illicit in the wreckage of that aircraft? Or was he going to Spanish Fork to pick up something illicit?
@@knowsmebyname The full NTSB report does not mention any "illicit reason" by any wording in its report, neither did The Billings Gazette, which reported on the accident and named the victim and his surviving wife and kids. It's a good theory but not borne out by the investigators. EDIT 25 Jan 20: @Lerxstification I quoted your words to an inmate in our local women's jail, as she sat there picking scabs resulting from her meth use. "I guess you'll just pick your way along to the grave."
These are so well done & helpful. Thanks so much for doing them. Unusual that the pilot got the Commercial ticket but no Instrument rating. Pilot had some serious get-home-itis. Warned several times VFR NOT RECOMMENDED. Gotta just listen to others when they're doing everything they can to help you not get killed. It's difficult to imagine what this guy was thinking.
Thats what I would do, if I see no other way to survive this I would land this fking plane down the highway or ditch it somewhere along the highway, and take my chance rather than flying blind in the snowstorm.
@@UncleBoratagain I understand where you going with this, and yes safety of others on the ground is also a must, however this is a small aircraft flying in the snowstorm, all vehicles on the ground are going slow and distanced out, so im pretty sure it will give enough room for the pilot to land safely without hurting anyone. There are plenty of videos of aircraft landing on the highway even the busy ones. ruclips.net/video/nOdrXJprYCw/видео.html
t's better to be on the GROUND wishing you were in the air than in the AIR wishing you were on the ground !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Know when not to go, you always have to to ready to cancel your trip, this is not like getting in a car people
Been there, done that. Once only. Scared myself silly. And yes, I'm one of those IMC pilots -- like 1/3 of the dead ones. Love these videos. Seeing someone else do it suddenly makes what seems kinda reasonable become a horrible idea. Thanks for these great videos, AOPA.
Wow, Skud -Running is one thing, but Skud-Running in the mountains in the winter, in the soup, into a mountain pass!!! I just shook my head the entire time watching this.... He would have had a better chance of playing Frogger across a 6 lane freeway!... Im glad he was by himself and didn't take his whole family with him!!!!
From his 1st flight plan conversation he was warned. Repeatedly, little "angels" kept tapping him on the shoulder saying over and over, "Live to die another day!" along the way. This was so metaphoric. How many willfully push through a "crappy plan" in life despite being told otherwise. Best to listen, sit, breathe and choose plan B. Man died alone, afraid, and in the cold needlessly.
Hats off to all Atc members involved.They tried to tell him again and again.Sorry for the stubborn pilot.Rip.Terrific channel,I recommend it to all my airline colleagues.Always something to learn,no matter what equipment you fly!
Since I became a Private Pilot in 1956, I have read (and now see) a constant litany of pilots killing themselves by flying into bad weather. I call it the "airliner attitude" (the airlines can make it so I can too). Unfortunately they often kill others in the process.
It’s called “VFR flight following” and is a service available to all pilots just for the asking. Thing is, after watching this slow-motion train-wreck-in-the-air unfold, I will be damned if I can figure out why he ever bothered to request it. All he did was needlessly waste precious ATC and pilot resources and traumatize all involved in trying to help him. smh
@@leilanirocks hell even vfr flight following was useless due to his low altitude effecting the receiver. thats why he was unreachable at a certain point of the flight. even needing to daisy link the message to another flight that could reach him. they wouldnt be able to do vfr flight follow is the point
"I'll just slip on in and if it's bad, I'll slip back out". Unbelievable that a 1000+ hour pilot could still have that kind of expectation bias. He clearly believed that either the weather wasn't as bad as FSS was saying it was, or that it would clear up, or worse, that his previous scud-running experience would save his butt this time like it obviously did on other flights into questionable wx. My heart goes out to this man's family, but this could have been avoided if he had simply heeded the wx reports, or even the visual queues along his route. Or if he had merely set his personal minimums at VFR minimums. Choosing to ignore current, relevant wx info in mountainous terrain while watching the wx deteriorating around you is a suicide mission.
You hit it on the head there: "previous scud-running experience". We can't know for sure if that was the case, but this WX was so awful and he was so calm and nonchalant about flying in it. The most likely explanation is that he flew like that frequently and was comfortable with it. He also maintained control of the airplane up to the last minute. His Bonanza was a very capable IFR platform so it's plausible he had been teaching himself to use the instruments to aid his scud-running.
The simplest thing he could have done was just set it down on the highway and skid off into the shoulder I'm sure traffic was light enough to get a big space between cars. I have en on that highway before and there are long straightaways with lots of room set it down he would have to admit was was wrong.
thats just what I was thinking, why not land on the hgwy? part of the problem I think is that the more a person does something w/o any problem the more false confidence they have that nothing bad will happen... until it does
Landing on a road could be dangerous. Did he not have the option of increasing altitude into the cloud above the level of the terrain, and heading towards the nearest airport with good enough weather conditions that he could land there?
It's remarkable how the seeds of most incidents/accidents are planted when the pilot is still on the ground. Even given the pilot's poor planning and risk taking, there were times during this video that I kept saying to myself, "Just land it on the road....just do an emergency landing already....c'mon" rooting for him to get out with his life.
This was my uncle's Beechcraft. He owned it for about 24 years (roughly 1981-2005), then sold it to this deceased pilot. I spent around 30-35 hours flying in it, most often MYF SFH, and one time MYF -> APA, a two-day trip, and another from APA to a Fort Collins, CO airport when he flew me up to college after a break. How freaking exciting is that? When my uncle owned it, it was hangared in MYF, about 1 mile from his house in San Diego. He loved that plane. He named it "Little Buddy", and had his bars' logo (a guy playing a tuba, yes really) painted on the vertical stabilizer. This Debonaire was a standard tail, not the V tail. He flew VFR exclusively, although his rating at times included IFR after the Beechcraft eventually got IFR equipment during his ownership. I was always tasked with something to help, usually scanning the sky for other planes. He never flew along highway corridors because that where other birds were, what everybody did. I have a photo from around 1982 of my sister and I getting in the Beechcraft, complete with us wearing "OP" shirts and shorts and pulled-up tube socks. I think it's fair to say I loved that plane as much as my uncle. My uncle was an excellent pilot, though I had little to judge him with back then, I can see it today clearly. He gave up flying when he sold the Beechcraft. He's an ex-Marine, Vietnam chopper pilot, and he flew missions in the evacuation of Saigon to offshore US carriers taking in the evacuees. I had utter, complete trust in his abilities to fly, so much so that I won't/haven't up with any hobbyist. Sorry, hobbyists, US military or commercial pilots only for me. I know of too many small aircraft crashes, personally.
@@eldrugoalex That's a reasonable approach (no pun intended). During primary helicopter training in Texas, we were soloed after 10-12 hours of flight time and spent rest of time solo cross country. About 3rd solo cross country, I encountered winds so strong, I was flying backwards trying to reach the heliport. Changing altitude no help, so I ended up tacking like a sailboat to make it back. A few years after that, I finished university degree and burned off rest of GI bill by transitioning into fixed wing. So easy after flying Cobra helicopters, and I was soloed after 2 hours instruction. When I took off the numbers were challenging yet doable. By the time I made my downwind leg, winds picked up. All my landings had been done with full flaps and when I was close to landing, a gust picked me up into a stall and I pushed in the throttle, got some control and called for a go around. As I started the pattern, the tower asked me if I wanted to go to another airport but winds were not much better at the closest one. My instructor called from the tower and advised me to bring it in hot with no flaps and that did the trick.
@G Galilei You got that wrong on many levels. 2 Northwest Airline pilots had their licenses revoked for complacency in the cockpit, using their ipads for nonessential stuff resulting in overflying their intended airport by 150 miles. And obviously, you never spent time in a cockpit on a long flight. Due to automation, pilots have less to do. You probably think that commercial pilots wake up one day and fly for the airlines. How do you think they build up hours to be hired? I guess you fail to think and that makes you the fool.
I have driven that canyon many times, and it is dangerous in bad weather. Bad enough in good weather. I can't even imagine someone trying to fly it at an altitude of 300 ft. above ground!
In a canyon is not a good place to try to execute a 180 degree turn. One does not think about the radius necessary to perform that maneuver at flying speeds. Even if you set it up correctly under good condition, it is a bad flying choice, but when the weather has closed in on you, well, RIP. Somewhat tongue in cheek: If you own an airplane and want to do something stupid like this, do us a favor and sign the plane over to me and stay home. I'll take good care of it for you and you will live another day.
indeed, the farther in he got, the less able he was to turn around. A chandelle would have been an appropriate 180° maneuver, but he apparently lacked the skills for that and the IMC that would result.
He was flying even closer to the ground, unable to see the highway otherwise. Visibility was probably less than 100 feet. The police mentioned, called it total white-out conditions.
yeah that's exactly it...that line means there's something wrong with his aviation philosophy. it's sad to see that kind of stubborness, even in the face of overwhelming evidence.
ATC: "Be advised, we have reports of multiple hell mouths opening up on your route and have confirmed that Dagon himself is rising from the depths of the nine hells..." Pilot: "Roger. I'm just going to slide in and if I see the Great Old One I'll slide back out."
I really feel for the ATC guys, they tried so hard to save this guy form himself while maintaining a professional demenor. I am sure they feel everyone they lose, even if its not their fault. Then there are the first responders that have to be traumatized by the horrific accident site this guy created. So sad for them. As for the pilot, self inflicted.
I live in SLC, and we wouldn't even try to drive in the area of I-80 and US 40 when the weather is bad. No joke. It's some of the most treacherous mountain terrain in the country, so if you hit bad weather around there, you turn back either to Park City or Evanston, depending upon which direction you're headed, and wait out the storm. Better a night or three in a crappy roadside motel--or overpriced Park City resort hotel--than dying in a canyon snow storm.
Get there Itis. I have suffered from this condition and fortunately it wasn't my time but I did learn the lesson...Park it and Delta is ready when you are.
As a non-pilot I am fascinated by things like this. So many very clear warnings and still he pressed on. Even when people sum up the reasons (pressure to be somewhere, overconfidence, etc.) I still don't really understand it.
So many warnings and opportunities to land... Most pilots try know their limits and that of their airplane and heed warnings like these. Unfortunately there are some that give into hazardous attitudes causing grief for families, friends, and the GA community as a whole.
Well... maybe it helps if I put it into terms for road users: Most people know that it is dangerous to drive fast. Posted speed limits are clearly communicated. Yet many people speed. Why? Over-confidence with oneself and not taking warnings and/or limits given by others seriously just because one can not see the danger immediately is way common in humans. Unfortunately..
@@z00h You're confirming @QemeH's point. (Hint: autobahns are incredibly well engineered, German licences are very hard to get, fuel is $7.50 per gallon and insurance costs for under-30's mean you have to be old and wealthy to drive fast like that. And when you change lanes you're expecting someone approaching behind you with 100km/h closing speed)
@@mrgilbe1 "German licences are very hard to get, fuel is $7.50 per gallon and insurance costs for under-30's mean you have to be old and wealthy to drive fast like that." it's been ages since I read something as stupid as this. And I'm talking from first hand experience counting in decades now.
The outcome was bad, but I am heartened to see the professionalism of ATC and other pilots like the Delta who relayed information. Just going by the video, I don’t know what else anyone could do for this poor guy. And I don’t like the attitude you hear in the comments that goes, Oh, well, he deserved it. No, he didn’t deserve to die. He made a mistake and when he realized it, it was just too late. We all do that. Sometimes we are lucky. When we don’t heed the advice of others who want to help us, we are lucky if we can look back and realize, Yeah, they were right. This pilot can’t look back in retrospect. He must have known he made a terrible decision. Who can imagine what it was like for him in those last minutes? The whole point of these videos is that they are about _us._ The pilots who died in these videos were denied a second chance to make a better decision-but we are the ones who get _their_ second chance. A second chance to see our vulnerabilities, our biases, our priorities and most of all to be honest with ourselves when we know we are on a path that is taking us somewhere we do not want to go.
Some think they can simply turn around to avoid bad weather ahead. Because of schedules and commitments, and inexperience in regards to what constitutes IMC, most fail to realize the seriousness of the situation until its too late. No pilot should fly without a basic understanding of instrument flight. And the knowledge of how to climb above terrain and maintain level flight to a place where better visibility exists. Or better yet, cancel or postpone the trip due to the weather report and the advice of those in the know. BTW, I'm not a pilot. But I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
I could deal with my own stupidity causing my death, but I could never risk having a RUclips video analysis of it being poste online! Sober review of pilot stupidity is the key to air safety.
Thank you for uploading and preparing these amazing video reconstructions. Each one is like some kind of Radio Serial Drama. I think if I ever get my license I'll only fly over the Salt Flats or SW low desert or something... wow
This reminds me of a gambler trying to win after losing hand after hand and just throwing more money on the table.... drinking more to try to sober up... or trying to find a date on Craigslist... no matter what happens it's only going to end in regret.
Use Martingale betting to get out of losing streaks. In Martingale you bet your total losses. So lets say you lose 10 bucks, you bet 10. You lose that too, now you bet 20. If you lose that too, then you bet 40 and so forth. Idea being that you will recuperate all your losses in one win. Hope you got deep pockets tho.
At least he didn't take any passengers or the family dog with him. Flying involves a certain amount of risk management and on this trip he didn't manage it very well.
I wondered if even an instrument rating would have helped with all the icing and such. When the briefer says VFR not recommended it's a good idea to listen
chuckschilling General Tip: GA machines such as this aircraft are generally not equipped to climb out of icing, for the most part. Better to turn around...or not go there in the first part.
When I was a young student pilot I had the "it can't happen to me" syndrome and am alive today 30 years later only because the universe smiled upon me. I could clearly see after my first IFR encounter the universe was not always going to smile upon me and mended my ways. What I learned as a whippersnapper is what every pilot should learn early in their careers but many don't until it is too late. Yes, it can happen to you!
Unlike many realms of human activity, flying is not about what you want, hope or believe. It renders as proper idiocy the phrase, perception is reality.
Me too! But I was a little wiser. In a SEAT or Single Engine Air Tanker I got into similar crap with no IFR instruments but IFR rated, I diverted into Bozeman & got my ass on the ground. A fellow pilot a year later, same situation, crashed, killed. Don't push it people.
Seems to me these thing happen because previous times he had done the same thing and nothing happened. I wouldn't even drive a car in that weather on a highway in white out this idiot is what gives GA a bad rap this guy should get a Darwin award. He even could have just landed on the highway slide off the road.
most likely those people don't want to stuck in the middle of nowhere but It's settled the moment that they decided to continue the flight or failed to recognize the issue
This might be a really dumb question, but why would you fly anywhere without an instrument rating? Why would you fly knowing the weather might change and you might die because you don’t know how to use your instruments???
This accident occurred in a local area, so it really hits home. I use this as a case study in an Aviation Weather class at the local community college. Every time ATC tells him how VFR flight was not advised, conditions were deteriorating, etc, and he responds with nonchalance, while flying lower and lower in snow and sleet (!) we can only stare at each other in amazement...
So good to see someone smart utilizing the best free stuff available to teach absolute common sense! Great Job! With more people like you, there may be hope yet!
"VFR is not recommended" could be supplemented with "btw , just to remind you: VFR-to-IMC killed people last year". Maybe it can finally trigger some conciousness on if it present.
how about being more assertive , like closed to VFR flight, licence cancellation if continued. Other people risk their necks going out to find these people and get scarred by dealing with the accident site carnage.
"Is there any clear path between the poo poo, caca and poopy? If not, can you give me a recommendation on reciprocal course to my origination or direct to origination? I have absolutely no inclination to becoming coexistent with the spacetime below the surface of the earth at the present time" Because, picking one's way along, peak to peak, on VFR and the peaks are IMC is the surest way to become coexistent in spacetime with the earth, digging a very modest gouge on the surface. And while dad may have raised a dummy, he didn't raise no fool. The other chap, not so much at all. And there are just times when, even on foot, it's a wonderful idea to just turn around and run back like the devil's chasing you.
@@yarpos ATC can do everything right and people will always ask "why didn't you say this/do this/be more assertive/be less assertive/you scared him so he crashed/you didn't scare her enough so she crashed." There is only so much ATC can do. You chose to get in the plane and fly.
I don't know the first thing about flying... but this was ridiculous... How could so many obvious and clear warnings be ignored?!. That weather report at the beginning was pretty clear, even to a total layman.
You can hear in the ATC controllers voices that they know what’s about to happen to him, they know that he isn’t taking them serious, and they know that they can’t stop him, you can hear the frustration and sadness in their voices after they advise him of the weather conditions.
I'm a sailor with tens of thousands of miles and decades under my keel. Seems like I'm always trying to talk new sailors on the dock out of putting to sea in dicey conditions. They simply don't understand the power and fury the sea is capable of unleashing, even with a GOOD forecast. 1/2 the time, they haven't even checked the forecast. The other 1/2 of the time they checked it, and think it's all good, and put to sea despite near-gale conditions not knowing how to reef or handle their boats in strong winds and waves. The only times I'll take on such conditions is if A) I'm sea-trialing / shaking down my boat for a long ocean passage and require testing my ship in strong conditions, or B) I'm caught out in them unexpectedly. When sea-trialing, I work my way up to stronger conditions over several months and note what's working well and what isn't. It's a whole different boat when it's blowing 30 knots than when it's blowing 15, and it's a whole different sea. I watch these air-accident videos because I figure I still have a lot to learn about safety, and especially the mindset and preparation that creates it.
This is so sad. I really was pulling for this guy, thinking maybe he wrecked his plane in a miraculously soft snowbank, and survived. But the video had other news. He was warned repeatedly about the weather situations. I guess it's really a matter of "Getthereitis" sprinkled with "It always happens to someone else" with a side of "I know what I'm doing - I'll be OK." Sigh.
I remember going through mountain passes in Colorado in February weather thinking i was going to die.....I was in a 4WD SUV !!!! and on a major highway I-70. I can't even imagine what he must have been experiencing. I was alone like he was but had 4 wheels on the ground and was terrified. White-out conditions are no joke and I've never seen so many slide-offs, semi's crossing center median and absolute impassibility of Vans and 2WD cars. Harrowing. So take my experience and triple it with him being up in the air just over the road with literally no way out. Urgency and cockiness overruled common sense. I was in more of a desperation situation due to some circumstances that make it hard to share, but I still lacked necessary forethought (finding out exact weather conditions at way-points and I would say, stubbornness). I wish this would have had a happy ending.
I'm getting chills just thinking about being in that cockpit under such conditions. Scud running near high mountains, with low visibility, icing, precipitation, and oh, near white out conditions? He should have turned around at the first warning. RIP, but let him be a reminder to us all what to absolutely not do.
I'm not even a pilot and that got to me too. A doomed feeling, in too deep, can't get out. You can't stop and wait it out under a bridge when you have to keep your airspeed up.
I dont understand why more GA pilots dont get IFR rated. If I was a GA pilot, I sure as hell would. Its my life on the line, and the instruments could save your life if you make a mistake or get unlucky.
Wow, multiple warnings not to fly that path and the pilot continues to go for it. My sympathies to his family and loved ones. That's great how so many people were trying to help the pilot, especially the crew of the Delta flight.
Britman I think it should be required too. I think PPL should include basic VFR, just how to fly an ILS and how to follow a vector from ATC without any visibility. For emergencies.
Avery Kucan. I'm an instrument rated pilot. I used to think the same thing but that's why VFR has rules to stay clear of clouds. So for an emergency to shoot an ILS would never become a reason. Sure knowledge is power to know how to fly IFR buy not be rated is nice but so is learning to SCUBA dive but live in a desert. You won't need to use SCUBA unless you jump in the water. Pilots choose to fly into the clouds makes it a choice not an emergency. If you want the option to choose to fly in the clouds then you must rate yourself to be instrument to give yourself that aforementioned choice. May I add another assimilation. All car drivers must learn how to drive Semi just incase we have to drive one. No, when the time to need to drive a Semi, you'd get the proper licensing to do so before getting on the highway in said semi. It's about choices.
No, not at all. An instrument rating will give you the knowledge and the confidence to trust and use your instruments regardless of what your "body" is telling you. This rating expands your skill set as a pilot.
I think there have been two IFR days all year where I live in AZ, and both cleared after a couple hours. Commercial without IFR is nice for us out here. The more important training, in this neck of the woods, is learning to fly the mountains and hot, turbulent, high DA days we have especially in summer.
12:20 I bet he could hear the other pilots trying to talk to him but was just ignoring their calls at that point because he didn't want to hear it. It's amazing how many accidents actually come down to a pilot not being humble, being too macho, or too arrogant. Those pilot types need to leave that stuff on the ground.
I watch these vids and I sweat bullets. As a private vfr pilot no way would I ever ever consider doing something like this. Can't imagine what this pilot was going thru during last moments.
I am 2 mins into the video and already saying it. Over confidence and "I gotta get there on time" kills. It really doesn't matter if you are on time if you are dead.
ATC: "Sir... Chuck Norris has been spotted on foot within the Provo Pass. He looks pissed. You might want to rethink your fight plan,....over." Pilot: "Roger that....Its Ok, I've seen all of his movies and I'm not impressed nor intimidated. I'll carry on...thank you." ATC: " Ok..but he looks REALLY pissed." Pilot: "No worries..I can see him from here 75 miles away...looks fine to me. I'll just slide in but if he raises a fist I'll slide back out."
I've flown across that area a number of times and there are so many airports where he could (and should) have landed. It wasn't as if he wasn't warned many times of deteriorating conditions ahead.
Kudos to every single one of these air traffic controllers, they did their best but could not save this man from himself.
Don't forget about the Delta crew that also tried to help. This pilot that died had a death wish attitude.
He was clearly determined to kill himself, wasn’t he? At least he didn’t take his family and friends with him-unlike most of these accident case studies where the pilot’s poor judgment costs...well, everything. Everything.
Indeed! Compared to the other ATC from this series, we really can't point the finger at anyone here. They tried to get the guy to give up several times. And he was already more than illegal when flying 300 feet above. I don't understand this one!
@@LeantoPeak he was rolling the dice. People do it. What i hate is when people see behavior they don't understand, their knee-jerk reaction is to create some law.
@@ivanabcdefg9375 well he was way past illegal on this one, not sure how more laws could have helped him. May he RIP.
PILOT: How's it looking?
ATC: Really bad, visibility 1/2 mile, ceilings at 500 feet, heavy snow.
PILOT: Good to go!
ATC: VFR flight not reccomended. New forecast: Blizzard warnings. All passes.
PILOT: I'll just slide back in and slide back out.
ATC: Also, mutiple tornado warnings and wind shear alerts.
PILOT: Nice and clear right here! I can see for miles!
ATC: 5 Russian Mig-15's out of your northwest.
PILOT: I'll just poke along the highway here.
lol
So sad too, because no one needs to lose their life this way.
That was funny but had relevancy for the situation. Love the Migs part.
ATC: “There is actually 2 hurricanes converging along your flight path, wind variable at 150G200KT..... also reports of softball size hail. There is heavy volcanic ash and a solar eclipse over you path, it will be dark for 2 min.”
Pilot: “I can still see the road here, let me just fly over and check it out, maybe I’ll turn around if it looks too bad.”
LOL!
The thing that struck me is the high quality and helpful nature of the ATC and flight services, all advising similar things and giving him every opportunity to make a good decision.
And that's their #1 job. Relay as much information as possible to the pilot and let them make the decision. They even went above and beyond advising him FOUR separate times not to fly VFR into Provo/Spanish Fork but he just wanted to "take a peek" and "slide back out" if there's trouble. Arrogance cost him his life.
Whoever produces these videos is doing an incredible job with relatively simple tools. The suspense is engaging without being distracting, and the lessons and points come across crystal clear. Very, very well done.
Absolutey! Hope for many more..
I want more
If you think these are impressive, you’ll fall out of your chair when you see the latest videos coming out of the USCSB (Chemical Safety Board) ruclips.net/user/uscsb or ruclips.net/user/uscsb one of these two.
They have a world class narrator and state of the art, highly detailed computer re-creations unlike anything you’ve ever seen!
conqururfear I meant to tag you and @djchemical above
The suspense if my favorite part.
Alternate (fictional) ending: The pilot, realizing that life is precious and he didn't actually have to be in Spanish Fork that day, located the Evanston airport with difficulty. He executed a high-pucker-factor but safe approach and landing. Upon shutdown he exited the aircraft, kissed the ground, and arranged for an overnight tiedown and ride into town. He had an excellent dinner, spent a quiet night in a warm hotel room and had a good night's sleep. After a hearty breakfast the pilot returned to the airport, took off, and enjoyed an uneventful, magnificent flight through scenic country, arriving at his destination by noon.
I keep watching these horrifying tales expecting that outcome but no, it's always a date with the dirt at 200mph. Oh the humanity.
It's great to point this out, because as much as you think that people would understand this, clearly some reminders are needed.
😢
If only . . .
Some people just don’t get it, and roll the dice throughout their lives. Some live, some die. But they will consider only the stories of the ones who live. They’ve adopted the “It always happens to someone else” attitude and the sad thing is, they don’t even realize they’re doing it. RIP.
"I'll just drop in and take a peak." This is one of the most important videos any pilot should watch. The sheer pride, egotism, and total lack of professionalism by this pilot made this a literal suicide mission. Just for giggles I reproduced this trip with the exact METAR in Xplane 11 and it was literally a nightmare. In order to make it I had to scud run the highway in the canyon the entire time and almost crashed multiple times. I ended up making it but in real life I would have never taken this flight with those METARs.
He took a peak alright
You should tone down the arrogance, simmer. This man’s death gave you the gift of thinking that his ADM mistake was “obvious.”
@@banjo2019 You should tone down the arrogance, actually... He was told before he ever took off that his flight was not advised, and how many different controllers, flight service, and other aircraft, told him that he was making a fatal mistake attempting what he attempted?
He showed his arrogance in other facets as well, if you take a wider look at it -- he attained his commercial and was not a low-time pilot, but apparently didn't think he needed his instrument rating, because he could just "pick his way along" mere hundreds of feet above the ground, in mountainous terrain?
This man's death gave a crystal clear look of why VFR pilots should never fly anywhere near IMC, if the fact that VFR into IMC has been and will likely remain the #1 killer in aviation didn't make that completely obvious.
One of my favorite kills. This guy ticks me off with his arrogance and stupid phrases like "pick my way along" and "slide in there and take a peek" all with his cowboy accent. His best contribution to society is his death account.
Where did you get the METAR?
Many years ago I'm riding in the back of my father's and his partners K35 Bonanza. At that time my father had around 26,000 flight hours and his partner was approaching 30,000+hrs as he approached the end of his commerical career. We're in central Idaho flying into a cabin we owned on a small primitive strip, I was 17 and had just soloed the month before. The Bonanza had a full avionics panel so I felt confident we would transverse the terrain and arrive within an hour. We were flying VFR around 8500ft. They asked for weather up dates as the trip progressed and the weather began to detoriate. Finally we received a report the ceiling was 9500ft in our imediate location and was continuing to decrease. Dennis who was flying left seat turned to my father and said "What do you think William?" "Shall we leave this to the more experienced pilots?" My father responded: "You know D,G (Dennis's initials) "I was thinking the samething, besides I know this fabulous steak house in Boise that has the best prime rib!" Besides "Dad responded) this front will blow through by morning and we'll likely awaken to clear skys and not a ripple! Which we did!
Dennis said to be to my Dad (directing the question towards me) what don't we ever do? My dad responded: never put yourself in a situation where it takes 100% of your ability to get out of it, because sooner or later you're going to need one percent more than what you have, and you're going to bust you ass!
That quote will stick with me for a good long while, great story
sounds like a hollow life
I'm a sailor with tens of thousands of miles and decades under my keel. I love the "Shall we leave this to more expereinced pilots" quote! Seems like I'm always trying to talk new sailors on the dock out of putting to sea in dicey conditions. They simply don't understand the power and fury the sea is capable of unleashing, even with a GOOD forecast. The only times I'll take on such conditions is if A) I'm sea-trialing / shaking down my boat for a long passage after making numerous upgrades that require testing in strong conditions, or B) I'm caught out in them unexpectedly.
Prudent seamen avoid bad weather when possible. Fools charge out into it thinking they are invincible. Sooner or later, they get their asses handed to them by the sea. I watch these air-accident videos because I figure I still have a lot to learn about safety, and especially the mindset and preparation that creates it.
@@TheWilliamHoganExperience My advice from my true story : I lived in a Port town when Hurricane Bob showed up. My friend's 40 foot wooden sailboat was on a mooring a short drive from the Bar that I lived above. It stayed open, got busy that night and my friend and his friend were there, called me to join them then wanted my help "to check the boat". I found that a bit odd but trusted them. The protected Harbor was rather calm but dark. The boat looked fine except we saw just one side. Now these clowns "want help" paddling to it to check the other side. Still trusting what they said, I joined them. Next we boarded the boat but now these 2 clowns slip the mooring and put out. When I ask what they're doing he tells me that they're going to take it out. I looked at them like they're idiots and reminded them that a Hurricane has come to town and they only think that they are smarter than meteorologists.
We just clear the Jetty and you can see a Coast Guard vessel at the mouth of the nearby river apparently assisting a larger ship. We're now in 8 to 10 foot swells in a wooden sailboat with a diesel that had a history of stalling and not restarting for a long while... and both of them had experienced that several times.
Having lived near the sea, it turned out to be less rough than I thought it would be but the 2 guys who tricked me into all of this began to panic. We got back okay because they kept their heads but I was pretty angry that after ignoring me, they decided the sea, in a hurricame, was too rough.
My advice for you when you pick a crew or are picked for a crew is this : The "don't worry" crowd is not a group to rely on. They are not prepared. It was a surprise for me given that the engine of that 40 ft sailboat had quit on a different trip, just offshore from some rocks. It started and ran again after all their efforts either worked or the flooded carburetor had enough time to drain. Either way the results were; no panic, no outside help and we resumed the trip. Those 2 guys were the same people with me for Hurricane Bob and I lost a lot of respect for both of them being so deliberately foolish and then suddenly; more worried than me.
That's where they seem to match this Pilot in this video. My guess is that previous trips to the same destination had worked before and so, no more prepared than perhaps previous flights, this guy tried again and he was remarkably close to his destination yet along the way, the option he kept talking about (turning around) ended as he began following the interstate through the valley. When finallly, he turned back he had zero visibility, he lacked visual references and was surrounded by rising terrain, dropping ceiling and precipitation/likely icing conditions. Too late for anything but a landing on the Interstate where there was hopefully no overpass. All along his route he ignored the advice of more experienced people (with regard to the weather).
He finally changed his mind far later than the 2 idiots I went unintentionally sailing with. But they (and I) lived.
@@TheWilliamHoganExperience Well its it the old saying, isn't it? "There are old pilots and there are bold pilots but there are no old bold pilots".
I'm reminded of an old 'The Far Side' cartoon where one pilot turns to his copilot and says "Hey, what's that mountain goat doing up here in the clouds?" I just wish common sense were more common.
LOL, yes, that's one of my favourites. Along with Santa plastered on the nose of a 747 with one pilot asking the other how they're going to explain this to their kids.
Mine is the helo pilot looking down on the castaway where part of the letter "P" has been lost, and the pilot radios, "No, cancel that; I guess it says 'HELF'"
@@WendelltheSongwriter
What does that mean?
JW K exactly
lol this gave me flash backs
PILOT: 'How's it looking?"
ATC: "Visibility is zero, 165 knot gusts, hurricanes, severe icing reported, earthquakes, blizzards"
PILOT: "I can almost see my prop. So Im just gonna poke in and have a look"
Absolutely ridiculous. At least he was alone, I see too many of these stories that affect innocent passengers.
Or that he didn't crash on the highway, leading to more innocent lives being lost. Dangerous fool.
@@canadianroot Came here after Kobe accident.
@@nofurtherwest3474 this is an almost identical situation as the Kobe crash, except that in this case the pilot was trying to avoid IMC all the way till he crashed, whereas in the Kobe case, the pilot, most likely, knowing that he was instrument rated, tried to climb into the clouds to avoid the terrain, but still crashed because he became spatially disoriented and lost control of the craft. In the end, it was the same result!
Also, In the accident involving Kobe, even though the pilot was instrument rated, he was most likely not instrument *_current._* Instrument skills are highly perishable, and that is why one needs to be practice them on a regular basis, and there are Instrument currency rules as to how often that needs to be done! Besides that, the sudden transition from VFR to IFR, when faced with IMC, very likely caught him off guard, causing him to be disoriented!
@@747-pilot I see, thanks. I wonder in this case, why didn't the pilot just emergency land on the freeway? I know it would not have been ideal, maybe would have caused an accident, but wouldn't that have been his best option?
Average intelligence is quite stupid, and this clown was very average. What a shame to destroy a perfectly good airplane.
This is the third time I've watched this. It still creeps me out. A huge thanks for creating this not-so-gentle-reminder to drop the get-there-itis in the trash before takeoff...
Pete Kuhns - I just took medical retirement from a long term employer that operated in such a wreckless manner, resulting in numerous OTJ injuries, some deaths and a bizarre property damage rate. The 'get'er done' mindset was/is so extreme I felt it be a corporate 'mental illness'.
On top of a declining personal income due to are best paying work being increasingly farmed out, we had to put up with a bit of 'social engineering' in regard to sexual orientation, political and race issues. Those of us who wanted common sense practices and corporate accountability were/are nothing more than 'haters', 'probable nazis', 'homophobes', 'Trump Supporters' (my favorite!) and the usual labels typically used in attempts to intimidate.
My health suffered greatly; attorneys were brought in and the state labor board ruled in my favor. Came away with a bit of cash, SSDI and looking at early retirement in less than 6 months.
Forgive me for writing a book but I see (and have lived through) these situations all too often, especially in aviation accidents.
I have been a clear wx pilot for years...if I see a cloud within 20 miles...I stay on the ground... (: kidding aside,this guy should have known better to do this.
Pete Kuhns your overuse of hyphens is mildly annoying
Pete Kuhns It wasn’t his lack of IFR ability or currency that finished his flight, it was his lack of VFR ABILITY.
Leaving aside questions of legality for a moment, it was probably reasonably possible for him to continue VFR and make it by putting about 20* of flaps down-- for better forward visibility, and lower stall speed. Then descend as much as necessary to merely keep the road in sight while in slow flight-- say 50’ above it ( to avoid any semis’ on it). Wires are another matter, if any, but he’s hanging it out here anyway. If the road was closed there’d be no traffic , so he could have just taxied on after landing ( as another commenter mentioned!) No , just kidding! But continuing , seriously for a moment, as long as he had the road in sight and continued in COORDINATED FLIGHT with an airspeed that gave him reasonable protection against gusts, he’d probably have made it. If he’d slipped the turns he would slip onto the road- - If he skidded them he would skid into the trees or canyon walls or whatever the lateral obstacles were at the time.I doubt icing was a problem for him, because the precip seemed to be already frozen.
@@davidwhite8633 You are suffering from the same kind of thought process that killed this pilot. You are replacing the fact that sometimes zero visibility can reach to ground level with your desire to have some visibility above ground level that would allow flight to continue.
I feel sorry for the controllers. Imagine having to sit there and watch this tragedy play out and not be able to do a thing about it.
Nothing fit the controllers to feel bad about. This idiot basically committed suicide.
Yeah, why do we allow people who don’t have instrument ratings to fly airplanes? In this case, no one else got injured, so I don’t care, but there’s numerous cases where they’ve crashed in the houses on the ground and killed people on the ground. What is the FAA thinking?
And all they can do is tell the pilot that VFR is not recommended.
This man had every single person he talked to for hours tell him not to do what he was doing and he just kept going
I was about to say the same thing. So many people tried to save his life, but he wasn't having any of that.
Picking his way along
I've actually done something similar. I and some of my collogues spent a few weeks trying to help somebody get himself out of a hole. He didn't listen. On the up side, he didn't die, he just got himself kicked out of the Navy. I still wish he would have listened to us.
Suicidal ??
He did do some IFR flying, or "I Follow Roads."
I do ilt
I like tturtles
he could have landed on one. in 1991 over Lewiston, ME, i got trapped on top in IMC. Found a hole and landed safely on a farmers grass field.
Or, "I follow railroads." I soloed in 1968 and heard both of them.
“Ignoring flight rules”.
pity he didnt set down on one, but his mind was set on getting there it seems
Hearing the actual voices of the people involved kind of brings it home.
This is a superb video and should be compulsory viewing for all private pilots. It confirms that most accidents are avoidable.
As the USPS drills into you, all accidents are preventable.
If not this flight, this was his destiny
About the only thing missing is one or more of the people warning him saying "OK sir, have a good flight and we'll see you at the funeral."
Dumb comment. People make bad mistakes, didn't you know Robert?
@@johnkuipers7829 Then there are a lot of 'dumb comments' on here. There are bad mistakes and there are fatal mistakes that could have been easily avoided had you just listened.
That really might help! Had a discussion with a pilot about deicing the plane or not. When the flight was ready for departure, I said: "Bye for now, see you at the end of the Runway!" - The aircraft got deicing...
Excellent comment. Thks guy is my favorite AOPA kill.
@@johnkuipers7829 Robert's comment was not dumb. The pilot was told FOUR TIMES to not do what he was doing (and I believe by 3 different parties). This pilot clearly knew more than everyone else...turns out he was just plain dead wrong...pun intended.
Sad, this reminds me when I flew with my student on a cross country flight to Watsonville along the West coast. Airport reported overcast at 1100 , visibility 10+, overcast layer covered the whole area of about 20 mile radius of the airport including Monterey. But inland was severe clear.
I knew we would not be going to Watsonville and will divert, but I let him fly it anyway to see what he was going to do.
Upon approach he gets the ATTIS. Then I start asking him questions.
1- are going to Watsonville? Yes
2- what the ceilings? 1100' overcast
3- what the TPA? 1000'
4-How you going to get below the ceiling? (Only option was over the ocean to the West. The overcast covered the whole valley area and we would not be able to get below the overcast for the mountains were in the way preventing our descent from the West, North, and Southern areas). Over the ocean and then come in, the area is at / near sea level.
5- how far out over the ocean are you planning to fly to get under the overcast? As needed but looks like just 3-5 miles (which is correct the overcast extended over the ocean for about 3 or 5 miles.
6- So you are going to fly at 600 feet to stay legal over water and then continue over land for another 5 miles or so dodging obstructions while looking an airport that you have never flown to? Yes
7- and if your (single) engine fails? (No answer)
8- then I said NO! We do not scud run when it's not an emergency. And since it is not then we will divert before it becomes an emergency. So we diverted to Hollister.
And thence started our diversion portion of the training.
Yeah we needed to work ADM.
Always better to play it safe then do something stupid and get away with it because some day you won't.
or you could have been direct instead of asking a trick question
@@amandam1137 It's not enough to just know the correct answer. You need to know WHY it's the correct answer, and what can/will happen as a result of those decisions.
@@Username-2 Correct, it’s real-world Scenario-Based training, which is commendable. Very good instruction.
@@amandam1137 This was not not a trick question... he was picking his student's brain about the his thought process that needs to go into the ADM process... This is an excellent real world situation and I'm sure the student learned from that. Putting all of the individual rules and safety practices into play with a real world flight is the best kind of learning moment from new students.
"Just gonna pick my way along". Aughtta put that on this guy's tombstone.
If there's much left of him to bury
@@RobertJamesChinneryH EMS,and other responders "picked up pieces of him along the way"
Here lies N1254Z He picked his way along"
He asked that the pick be buried along with him.
Either that or "He slid in but he didn't slide back out"!
“Sir! You are going to die!”
“Roger that”
rofl
@@mattscrapper9938 “Sir! You are going to die!”
“Wont we all”
The stone will say: He died doing what he liked, sadly...
"Yeah I think I'll just slide on in there and check that out"
I seriously wonder if this pilot was suicidal. His nonchalance towards so many warnings about bad conditions is worrying.
"I'll just pick my way along, and if I get close to dying I'll slip right out of death."
Over confidence in accordance with stubbornness is not a quality one wants as a pilot. RIP , thanks for the video , these save lives.
I remember watching this when I was 17 and starting my pilot training. The most dangerous thing in aviation isn’t terrain, weather, engine failures, etc; it’s *complacency.* RIP to the deceased aviator, and may his accident inspire others to not makes similar mistakes.
IF He was flying 300 feet over the freeway like the entire time might as well have DROVE A CAR .
monster truck
Or make an emergency landing...
Or landed on the highway and followed the posted speed limit until he got to his destination.
@@phapnui Can you imagine the poor cop that has to pull him over, scratching his head and thinking, "What's the statute on this?"
@@Tindometari "shit, he got the weed card, can't do much."
As I watched it, I kept saying "land on the road". That was his only chance. Even a climb into the clouds could have resulted in missing a turn in the pass and impacting the high surrounding terrain.
Erik Wagner • Not to mention icing.
I thought the same.
Erik Wagner yes try to land on the road worry about the consequences later at least you'll still be alive
That was his last out, yes. But he had plenty before - starting from not even taking this journey with those weather reports to landing at Evanston (9:37) where he already was flying way low to stay VFR, but could've made the airport no problem...
His arrogance wouldn't allow him to do that.
Such great videos, really well done. These need to be mandatory viewing for ALL pilots who fly GA. Such a waste of life, why dont these pilots heed the warnings of ATC?
on another note, what a cool use of FSX to reconstruct these.
It's really scary that not only did the Flight Service warn him about the bad weather conditions, and ATC multiple times through them selves as well as through Delta. Always the best to not go when they recommend against VFR, he could've easily done the flight another day. =(
"So, the sooner the better."
It wasn't an accident, it was a suicide. Because, holy heck, so many of these vids the pilot seems absolutely determined to die, but this guy? Was a man of focus, commitment, and... Sheer. Freaking. Will.
some guys wanna not be alone or something... it definitely was his choice the whole time
I have never seen such bad judgment from a pilot in my life
Sadly i have several times and each time they end the same as this tragedy.😜
I have. A non ifr pilot CHOSE to fly his helicopter into ifr while the chopper was on the ground. Waiting it out inside the helicopter was the perfect choice.
Two dead, one seriously injured.
You enter IMC, step 1, Climb... and keep climbing until your *at least* 1,000 above highest terrain. Step 2, contact tower, advise of a return, Step 3, execute a 180, Step 4, trust your controls, ignore your senses. Step 5, turn in your license upon landing for not listening to ATC's warnings.
Let's say you're not IFR trained. You lose visibility and climb into the clouds. Contact tower. They will vector you out of the IMC right? And even if you're not IFR rated, you should be able get above the terrain and hand fly to the heading given I'm assuming... just wonder why VFR pilots going into IMC don't ask for help...
Probably a pride thing. Im the man i can fly blindfoled with one arm tied behind my back i can handle Zero visibility white out conditons by zigzagging over drivers on a highway only 100 feet above their heads i got this im da man.
@@mikedavis7065 A non- instrument trained pilot won't be able to even keep the plane upright in an extended soup run trying to follow a vector. Most untrained pilots start entering a spiral dive within seconds in true zero vis. The limited instrument time for a private pilot license is really zero help.
I flew with a guy that was sort of like that--although he was an IFR-rated pilot, and (at one time) was a great stick. Then he busted minimums one too many times, and flew into high terrain. He was bold, but didn't grow old.
@@markyashchyshyn2647 Im curious about this, if you stick to your compass and your artificial horizon wouldn't you be able to keep the plane level? or is it that the confusion is too great to let you stick to the instruments only?
I'm a long haul truck driver and I can't imagine getting info like that and still continuing. This was almost suicide.
Not just almost
I'll just pick my way along to the grave.
"If there's any trouble I'll slide right out of it."
gary bulwinkle my thought was drugs or money but you may be right too. There is an illicit reason behind his madness.
@@knowsmebyname I wonder if they found anything illicit in the wreckage of that aircraft? Or was he going to Spanish Fork to pick up something illicit?
Dying to get to work, eh?
Yeah. Give him a shovel to go with that pick.
@@knowsmebyname The full NTSB report does not mention any "illicit reason" by any wording in its report, neither did The Billings Gazette, which reported on the accident and named the victim and his surviving wife and kids. It's a good theory but not borne out by the investigators. EDIT 25 Jan 20: @Lerxstification I quoted your words to an inmate in our local women's jail, as she sat there picking scabs resulting from her meth use. "I guess you'll just pick your way along to the grave."
These are so well done & helpful. Thanks so much for doing them. Unusual that the pilot got the Commercial ticket but no Instrument rating. Pilot had some serious get-home-itis. Warned several times VFR NOT RECOMMENDED. Gotta just listen to others when they're doing everything they can to help you not get killed. It's difficult to imagine what this guy was thinking.
SMaze17 • That's precisely the problem. He wasn't.
I also feel that you can not obtain a commercial ticket without having an instrument rating.
That is really weird. A commercial rating without IFR. But what do I know, I'm not a pilot but my two sons are.
numerous professionals aren't instrument rated. aerial applicators (crop dusters) typically go straight for the commercial and add it on later
If this guy had landed on the highway, he would probably have taxied along it until he was past the weather. Sheesh.
What??? You're joking, right?
That would probably have safer than what he did. He could have taxied into a service station and had a hamburger
Thats what I would do, if I see no other way to survive this I would land this fking plane down the highway or ditch it somewhere along the highway, and take my chance rather than flying blind in the snowstorm.
zero00tolerance land on the highway, thus involving innocent third parties in your life decisions. Not exactly Libertarian is it?
@@UncleBoratagain I understand where you going with this, and yes safety of others on the ground is also a must, however this is a small aircraft flying in the snowstorm, all vehicles on the ground are going slow and distanced out, so im pretty sure it will give enough room for the pilot to land safely without hurting anyone. There are plenty of videos of aircraft landing on the highway even the busy ones.
ruclips.net/video/nOdrXJprYCw/видео.html
t's better to be on the GROUND wishing you were in the air than in the AIR wishing you were on the ground !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Know when not to go, you always have to to ready to cancel your trip, this is not like getting in a car people
I always say, look for reasons NOT to fly, instead of the other way around. It helps.
In a car you might also need to cancel your trip in bad weather. In the conditions mentioned in the article, I would probably not even drive.
Been there, done that. Once only. Scared myself silly. And yes, I'm one of those IMC pilots -- like 1/3 of the dead ones. Love these videos.
Seeing someone else do it suddenly makes what seems kinda reasonable become a horrible idea. Thanks for these great videos, AOPA.
How can this ever seem reasonable in any way whatsoever?
I really do not understand the thinking behind that.
@@rogerwilco2 I'm a young private pilot. I get scared when there are some scattered clouds on my altitude, at 10000 ft
Wow, Skud -Running is one thing, but Skud-Running in the mountains in the winter, in the soup, into a mountain pass!!! I just shook my head the entire time watching this.... He would have had a better chance of playing Frogger across a 6 lane freeway!... Im glad he was by himself and didn't take his whole family with him!!!!
From his 1st flight plan conversation he was warned. Repeatedly, little "angels" kept tapping him on the shoulder saying over and over, "Live to die another day!" along the way. This was so metaphoric. How many willfully push through a "crappy plan" in life despite being told otherwise. Best to listen, sit, breathe and choose plan B. Man died alone, afraid, and in the cold needlessly.
Hats off to all Atc members involved.They tried to tell him again and again.Sorry for the stubborn pilot.Rip.Terrific channel,I recommend it to all my airline colleagues.Always something to learn,no matter what equipment you fly!
Since I became a Private Pilot in 1956, I have read (and now see) a constant litany of pilots killing themselves by flying into bad weather. I call it the "airliner attitude" (the airlines can make it so I can too). Unfortunately they often kill others in the process.
hi old fart
@@douglasdaniels1521 The voice of experience.
Not only that, but think about all the paperwork they create.
Sometimes in these videos ATC is frustratingly useless. Not so here, about 15 people tried to save this guy's life over several hours.
a lot of advising, but not much controlling
land of the free stuff I suppose, who are they to tell the pilot not to kill himself?
@@yarpos At the end of the day, ATC aren't the ones flying the aircraft. They can't force him to do anything, just strongly advise against it.
It’s called “VFR flight following” and is a service available to all pilots just for the asking.
Thing is, after watching this slow-motion train-wreck-in-the-air unfold, I will be damned if I can figure out why he ever bothered to request it. All he did was needlessly waste precious ATC and pilot resources and traumatize all involved in trying to help him.
smh
@@leilanirocks hell even vfr flight following was useless due to his low altitude effecting the receiver. thats why he was unreachable at a certain point of the flight. even needing to daisy link the message to another flight that could reach him. they wouldnt be able to do vfr flight follow is the point
"I'll just slip on in and if it's bad, I'll slip back out". Unbelievable that a 1000+ hour pilot could still have that kind of expectation bias. He clearly believed that either the weather wasn't as bad as FSS was saying it was, or that it would clear up, or worse, that his previous scud-running experience would save his butt this time like it obviously did on other flights into questionable wx. My heart goes out to this man's family, but this could have been avoided if he had simply heeded the wx reports, or even the visual queues along his route. Or if he had merely set his personal minimums at VFR minimums. Choosing to ignore current, relevant wx info in mountainous terrain while watching the wx deteriorating around you is a suicide mission.
You hit it on the head there: "previous scud-running experience". We can't know for sure if that was the case, but this WX was so awful and he was so calm and nonchalant about flying in it. The most likely explanation is that he flew like that frequently and was comfortable with it. He also maintained control of the airplane up to the last minute. His Bonanza was a very capable IFR platform so it's plausible he had been teaching himself to use the instruments to aid his scud-running.
The simplest thing he could have done was just set it down on the highway and skid off into the shoulder I'm sure traffic was light enough to get a big space between cars. I have en on that highway before and there are long straightaways with lots of room set it down he would have to admit was was wrong.
thats just what I was thinking, why not land on the hgwy? part of the problem I think is that the more a person does something w/o any problem the more false confidence they have that nothing bad will happen... until it does
This was a desperate man IMO. There is a backstory here of a man up to no good and believing himself to be without options IMO.
Landing on a road could be dangerous. Did he not have the option of increasing altitude into the cloud above the level of the terrain, and heading towards the nearest airport with good enough weather conditions that he could land there?
Every single pilot who has ever said "I'm just gonna go in and take a peak" is dead. It's the aviation equivalent of "watch this!"
"Hold my beer! Watch this!"
@@Brian-kl1zu Your the pilot, why should someone have to hold your beer? Does your personal , private aircraft not come with cup holders?
@@jamesm3471 🙄
Actually the vast majority survive…they don’t make videos about them.
@@33moneyball Hyperbole my friend. Saying ''0.05% of pilots who say this die'' doesn't highlight the absurdity of this hazardous risk.
It's remarkable how the seeds of most incidents/accidents are planted when the pilot is still on the ground. Even given the pilot's poor planning and risk taking, there were times during this video that I kept saying to myself, "Just land it on the road....just do an emergency landing already....c'mon" rooting for him to get out with his life.
This was my uncle's Beechcraft. He owned it for about 24 years (roughly 1981-2005), then sold it to this deceased pilot.
I spent around 30-35 hours flying in it, most often MYF SFH, and one time MYF -> APA, a two-day trip, and another from APA to a Fort Collins, CO airport when he flew me up to college after a break. How freaking exciting is that? When my uncle owned it, it was hangared in MYF, about 1 mile from his house in San Diego.
He loved that plane. He named it "Little Buddy", and had his bars' logo (a guy playing a tuba, yes really) painted on the vertical stabilizer. This Debonaire was a standard tail, not the V tail.
He flew VFR exclusively, although his rating at times included IFR after the Beechcraft eventually got IFR equipment during his ownership. I was always tasked with something to help, usually scanning the sky for other planes. He never flew along highway corridors because that where other birds were, what everybody did.
I have a photo from around 1982 of my sister and I getting in the Beechcraft, complete with us wearing "OP" shirts and shorts and pulled-up tube socks. I think it's fair to say I loved that plane as much as my uncle.
My uncle was an excellent pilot, though I had little to judge him with back then, I can see it today clearly. He gave up flying when he sold the Beechcraft. He's an ex-Marine, Vietnam chopper pilot, and he flew missions in the evacuation of Saigon to offshore US carriers taking in the evacuees.
I had utter, complete trust in his abilities to fly, so much so that I won't/haven't up with any hobbyist. Sorry, hobbyists, US military or commercial pilots only for me. I know of too many small aircraft crashes, personally.
I'd rather fly with a 100 hour pilot than a complacent 1,000 hour one.
That's so true. My minimums are very conservative, I'm not taking stupid risks. I only fly into strong winds with an instructor.
@@eldrugoalex That's a reasonable approach (no pun intended). During primary helicopter training in Texas, we were soloed after 10-12 hours of flight time and spent rest of time solo cross country. About 3rd solo cross country, I encountered winds so strong, I was flying backwards trying to reach the heliport. Changing altitude no help, so I ended up tacking like a sailboat to make it back.
A few years after that, I finished university degree and burned off rest of GI bill by transitioning into fixed wing. So easy after flying Cobra helicopters, and I was soloed after 2 hours instruction. When I took off the numbers were challenging yet doable. By the time I made my downwind leg, winds picked up. All my landings had been done with full flaps and when I was close to landing, a gust picked me up into a stall and I pushed in the throttle, got some control and called for a go around. As I started the pattern, the tower asked me if I wanted to go to another airport but winds were not much better at the closest one. My instructor called from the tower and advised me to bring it in hot with no flaps and that did the trick.
@G Galilei You would be foolish to stick with a complacent one. Unless you have a death wish. Complacency is the key issue.
@G Galilei You got that wrong on many levels. 2 Northwest Airline pilots had their licenses revoked for complacency in the cockpit, using their ipads for nonessential stuff resulting in overflying their intended airport by 150 miles. And obviously, you never spent time in a cockpit on a long flight. Due to automation, pilots have less to do. You probably think that commercial pilots wake up one day and fly for the airlines. How do you think they build up hours to be hired? I guess you fail to think and that makes you the fool.
Thanks for having a human narrator.
I have driven that canyon many times, and it is dangerous in bad weather. Bad enough in good weather. I can't even imagine someone trying to fly it at an altitude of 300 ft. above ground!
In a canyon is not a good place to try to execute a 180 degree turn. One does not think about the radius necessary to perform that maneuver at flying speeds. Even if you set it up correctly under good condition, it is a bad flying choice, but when the weather has closed in on you, well, RIP. Somewhat tongue in cheek: If you own an airplane and want to do something stupid like this, do us a favor and sign the plane over to me and stay home. I'll take good care of it for you and you will live another day.
He was actually measured by radar flying just 100 feet AGL.
Laron Woods
Just gotta get my proton torpedos in the exhaust port.
Then we can blow this thing and head for home.
indeed, the farther in he got, the less able he was to turn around. A chandelle would have been an appropriate 180° maneuver, but he apparently lacked the skills for that and the IMC that would result.
He was flying even closer to the ground, unable to see the highway otherwise.
Visibility was probably less than 100 feet.
The police mentioned, called it total white-out conditions.
"So, the sooner the better"
He was determined to die that day and by golly no one was going to talk him out of it.
ATC should have told him Harrison Ford was flying towards him, he'd have gotten the hell outta there.
yeah that's exactly it...that line means there's something wrong with his aviation philosophy.
it's sad to see that kind of stubborness, even in the face of overwhelming evidence.
Air traffic control did an excellent job of warning this man of all the dangers. Nobody's fault but his own.
We all know that.
ATC: "Be advised, we have reports of multiple hell mouths opening up on your route and have confirmed that Dagon himself is rising from the depths of the nine hells..."
Pilot: "Roger. I'm just going to slide in and if I see the Great Old One I'll slide back out."
"Pretty sure I can still see my propeller so I'm gonna keep going ..."
Good one
😁 oh gosh
Ego, over-confidence in ones ability, focused on destination, all of these play a big part ib these accidents, ego being the worst.
Pilot said he’d pick his way along and he certainly picked it, all the way into the trees.
If I had been foolish enough to get that far would probably have tried my luck landing on the highway
exactly
Thankfully in a way he didnt try- he probably would have killed some innocent motorist(s).
He was warned FOUR times!
Thanks for upload.
Amazing how Cavalier and casual the pilot is like he’s driving his pick up into town to pick up the groceries
I really feel for the ATC guys, they tried so hard to save this guy form himself while maintaining a professional demenor. I am sure they feel everyone they lose, even if its not their fault. Then there are the first responders that have to be traumatized by the horrific accident site this guy created. So sad for them. As for the pilot, self inflicted.
I live in SLC, and we wouldn't even try to drive in the area of I-80 and US 40 when the weather is bad. No joke. It's some of the most treacherous mountain terrain in the country, so if you hit bad weather around there, you turn back either to Park City or Evanston, depending upon which direction you're headed, and wait out the storm. Better a night or three in a crappy roadside motel--or overpriced Park City resort hotel--than dying in a canyon snow storm.
Get there Itis. I have suffered from this condition and fortunately it wasn't my time but I did learn the lesson...Park it and Delta is ready when you are.
As a non-pilot I am fascinated by things like this. So many very clear warnings and still he pressed on. Even when people sum up the reasons (pressure to be somewhere, overconfidence, etc.) I still don't really understand it.
So many warnings and opportunities to land... Most pilots try know their limits and that of their airplane and heed warnings like these. Unfortunately there are some that give into hazardous attitudes causing grief for families, friends, and the GA community as a whole.
Well... maybe it helps if I put it into terms for road users:
Most people know that it is dangerous to drive fast. Posted speed limits are clearly communicated. Yet many people speed. Why?
Over-confidence with oneself and not taking warnings and/or limits given by others seriously just because one can not see the danger immediately is way common in humans. Unfortunately..
@@QemeH Right, that's why half of German driving population dies every year on unrestricted Autobahns because 55MPH is the danger zone threshold.
@@z00h You're confirming @QemeH's point. (Hint: autobahns are incredibly well engineered, German licences are very hard to get, fuel is $7.50 per gallon and insurance costs for under-30's mean you have to be old and wealthy to drive fast like that. And when you change lanes you're expecting someone approaching behind you with 100km/h closing speed)
@@mrgilbe1 "German licences are very hard to get, fuel is $7.50 per gallon and insurance costs for under-30's mean you have to be old and wealthy to drive fast like that." it's been ages since I read something as stupid as this. And I'm talking from first hand experience counting in decades now.
The outcome was bad, but I am heartened to see the professionalism of ATC and other pilots like the Delta who relayed information. Just going by the video, I don’t know what else anyone could do for this poor guy. And I don’t like the attitude you hear in the comments that goes, Oh, well, he deserved it. No, he didn’t deserve to die. He made a mistake and when he realized it, it was just too late. We all do that. Sometimes we are lucky. When we don’t heed the advice of others who want to help us, we are lucky if we can look back and realize, Yeah, they were right. This pilot can’t look back in retrospect. He must have known he made a terrible decision. Who can imagine what it was like for him in those last minutes? The whole point of these videos is that they are about _us._ The pilots who died in these videos were denied a second chance to make a better decision-but we are the ones who get _their_ second chance. A second chance to see our vulnerabilities, our biases, our priorities and most of all to be honest with ourselves when we know we are on a path that is taking us somewhere we do not want to go.
Some think they can simply turn around to avoid bad weather ahead.
Because of schedules and commitments, and inexperience in regards to what constitutes IMC, most fail to realize the seriousness of the situation until its too late.
No pilot should fly without a basic understanding of instrument flight. And the knowledge of how to climb above terrain and maintain level flight to a place where better visibility exists.
Or better yet, cancel or postpone the trip due to the weather report and the advice of those in the know.
BTW, I'm not a pilot. But I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
I could deal with my own stupidity causing my death, but I could never risk having a RUclips video analysis of it being poste online! Sober review of pilot stupidity is the key to air safety.
Thank you for uploading and preparing these amazing video reconstructions.
Each one is like some kind of Radio Serial Drama.
I think if I ever get my license I'll only fly over the Salt Flats or SW low desert or something... wow
This reminds me of a gambler trying to win after losing hand after hand and just throwing more money on the table.... drinking more to try to sober up... or trying to find a date on Craigslist... no matter what happens it's only going to end in regret.
Hey, I'm on Craigslist, don't say nothin' bad about Craigslist, I'm hot and horny. And that's not an Adam's apple, if that's what you're thinkin.....
who the fuck drinks more to get sober?
Use Martingale betting to get out of losing streaks. In Martingale you bet your total losses. So lets say you lose 10 bucks, you bet 10. You lose that too, now you bet 20. If you lose that too, then you bet 40 and so forth. Idea being that you will recuperate all your losses in one win. Hope you got deep pockets tho.
@@rykehuss3435 I have a better idea.
Quit after losing the 10.
Radical idea, I know...lol
At least he didn't take any passengers or the family dog with him. Flying involves a certain amount of risk management and on this trip he didn't manage it very well.
Or anyone on the ground, for that matter, right?
That “...Well....sigh...” at 3:10 should have told that pilot everything he needed to know about flying that day.
I wondered if even an instrument rating would have helped with all the icing and such.
When the briefer says VFR not recommended it's a good idea to listen
Señor Baldwinez with that weather I wouldn't dare fly IFR into that weather AND the dangerously high terrain in a GA aircraft
If he had been flying IFR he could have climbed to an altitude where icing wasn't present.
@@chuckschillingvideos You mean climb up through the ice, in a non-icing-approved aircraft? Is that what you're saying?
@@bluehornet6752 Gee I'm so sorry I didn't know the icing rating of this aircraft!
chuckschilling General Tip: GA machines such as this aircraft are generally not equipped to climb out of icing, for the most part. Better to turn around...or not go there in the first part.
When I was a young student pilot I had the "it can't happen to me" syndrome and am alive today 30 years later only because the universe smiled upon me. I could clearly see after my first IFR encounter the universe was not always going to smile upon me and mended my ways. What I learned as a whippersnapper is what every pilot should learn early in their careers but many don't until it is too late. Yes, it can happen to you!
Good advice!
This is the ultimate 'hold my beer' flight. Thanks aopa.
“I’ll pick my way through there”…. Yeah, that was really a great plan of action.
"I'll just slide in there and take a peek. If it won't work, I'll just slide back out."
(-_-) amazing....
More like slide into a mountain
Words of a dead fool. Listening to him reminded me of another fool I know. Sounded exactly the same. Funny how those arrogant dumbasses sound alike
i dont understand how any pilot could venture into conditions like this and treat it like its no big deal. really mind boggling.
THe pilot just repeatedly ignores ATC warnings; you know the rest.
Unlike many realms of human activity, flying is not about what you want, hope or believe. It renders as proper idiocy the phrase, perception is reality.
Me too! But I was a little wiser. In a SEAT or Single Engine Air Tanker I got into similar crap with no IFR instruments but IFR rated, I diverted into Bozeman & got my ass on the ground. A fellow pilot a year later, same situation, crashed, killed. Don't push it people.
Wow, never heard that term! What is it? like some sort of fire fighting plane?
Seems to me these thing happen because previous times he had done the same thing and nothing happened. I wouldn't even drive a car in that weather on a highway in white out this idiot is what gives GA a bad rap this guy should get a Darwin award. He even could have just landed on the highway slide off the road.
I would not have flown that route IFR... sliding between mountains in anything less than solid vfr is not for me... Over the top or not at all.
Some people like to push their luck
most likely those people don't want to stuck in the middle of nowhere but It's settled the moment that they decided to continue the flight or failed to recognize the issue
Agreed. 99% of the time it worked for him probably.
Lehmann Peters I didn't think of that!
This might be a really dumb question, but why would you fly anywhere without an instrument rating? Why would you fly knowing the weather might change and you might die because you don’t know how to use your instruments???
This accident occurred in a local area, so it really hits home. I use this as a case study in an Aviation Weather class at the local community college. Every time ATC tells him how VFR flight was not advised, conditions were deteriorating, etc, and he responds with nonchalance, while flying lower and lower in snow and sleet (!) we can only stare at each other in amazement...
So good to see someone smart utilizing the best free stuff available to teach absolute common sense! Great Job! With more people like you, there may be hope yet!
"VFR is not recommended" could be supplemented with "btw , just to remind you: VFR-to-IMC killed people last year". Maybe it can finally trigger some conciousness on if it present.
how about being more assertive , like closed to VFR flight, licence cancellation if continued. Other people risk their necks going out to find these people and get scarred by dealing with the accident site carnage.
@@yarpos ATC is not the sky police. They can't decide anything for a GA pilot.
"Is there any clear path between the poo poo, caca and poopy? If not, can you give me a recommendation on reciprocal course to my origination or direct to origination? I have absolutely no inclination to becoming coexistent with the spacetime below the surface of the earth at the present time"
Because, picking one's way along, peak to peak, on VFR and the peaks are IMC is the surest way to become coexistent in spacetime with the earth, digging a very modest gouge on the surface. And while dad may have raised a dummy, he didn't raise no fool.
The other chap, not so much at all.
And there are just times when, even on foot, it's a wonderful idea to just turn around and run back like the devil's chasing you.
@G Galilei Maybe, if it means a pay raise as well.
@@yarpos ATC can do everything right and people will always ask "why didn't you say this/do this/be more assertive/be less assertive/you scared him so he crashed/you didn't scare her enough so she crashed."
There is only so much ATC can do. You chose to get in the plane and fly.
I don't know the first thing about flying... but this was ridiculous... How could so many obvious and clear warnings be ignored?!. That weather report at the beginning was pretty clear, even to a total layman.
Some people are just bound to be the cause of their own undoing.
He had a date with destiny, and he made sure to keep it.
Legend has it, to this day, he is still "Picking his way through it."
It was hard for me to realize that I was listening to a pilots last words before his death. Very Sad!
You can hear in the ATC controllers voices that they know what’s about to happen to him, they know that he isn’t taking them serious, and they know that they can’t stop him, you can hear the frustration and sadness in their voices after they advise him of the weather conditions.
You cant slip out of a canyon with low clouds in VFR!Doing a 180 will certainly cause CFIT!
I'm a sailor with tens of thousands of miles and decades under my keel. Seems like I'm always trying to talk new sailors on the dock out of putting to sea in dicey conditions. They simply don't understand the power and fury the sea is capable of unleashing, even with a GOOD forecast. 1/2 the time, they haven't even checked the forecast. The other 1/2 of the time they checked it, and think it's all good, and put to sea despite near-gale conditions not knowing how to reef or handle their boats in strong winds and waves.
The only times I'll take on such conditions is if A) I'm sea-trialing / shaking down my boat for a long ocean passage and require testing my ship in strong conditions, or B) I'm caught out in them unexpectedly. When sea-trialing, I work my way up to stronger conditions over several months and note what's working well and what isn't. It's a whole different boat when it's blowing 30 knots than when it's blowing 15, and it's a whole different sea.
I watch these air-accident videos because I figure I still have a lot to learn about safety, and especially the mindset and preparation that creates it.
This is so sad. I really was pulling for this guy, thinking maybe he wrecked his plane in a miraculously soft snowbank, and survived. But the video had other news. He was warned repeatedly about the weather situations. I guess it's really a matter of "Getthereitis" sprinkled with "It always happens to someone else" with a side of "I know what I'm doing - I'll be OK."
Sigh.
He had a wonderful wife and five loving grandkids. And because his decisions were so outrageous, it’s possible insurance wouldn’t pay.
I'm a recently area soloed student pilot and I love watching these movies. Teaches me not to get over confident...
I remember going through mountain passes in Colorado in February weather thinking i was going to die.....I was in a 4WD SUV !!!! and on a major highway I-70. I can't even imagine what he must have been experiencing. I was alone like he was but had 4 wheels on the ground and was terrified. White-out conditions are no joke and I've never seen so many slide-offs, semi's crossing center median and absolute impassibility of Vans and 2WD cars. Harrowing. So take my experience and triple it with him being up in the air just over the road with literally no way out. Urgency and cockiness overruled common sense. I was in more of a desperation situation due to some circumstances that make it hard to share, but I still lacked necessary forethought (finding out exact weather conditions at way-points and I would say, stubbornness). I wish this would have had a happy ending.
I'm getting chills just thinking about being in that cockpit under such conditions. Scud running near high mountains, with low visibility, icing, precipitation, and oh, near white out conditions? He should have turned around at the first warning. RIP, but let him be a reminder to us all what to absolutely not do.
I'm not even a pilot and that got to me too. A doomed feeling, in too deep, can't get out. You can't stop and wait it out under a bridge when you have to keep your airspeed up.
Usually when you go in there to take a peek it's usually too late. All those instruments in front of them and he couldn't understand any of them
I dont understand why more GA pilots dont get IFR rated. If I was a GA pilot, I sure as hell would. Its my life on the line, and the instruments could save your life if you make a mistake or get unlucky.
Wow, multiple warnings not to fly that path and the pilot continues to go for it. My sympathies to his family and loved ones. That's great how so many people were trying to help the pilot, especially the crew of the Delta flight.
I really wish an instrument rating was required for a CPL.
Because it sounds cool to say "I'm a commercial pilot". Did you think it was any more complex than that?
Britman I think it should be required too. I think PPL should include basic VFR, just how to fly an ILS and how to follow a vector from ATC without any visibility. For emergencies.
Avery Kucan. I'm an instrument rated pilot. I used to think the same thing but that's why VFR has rules to stay clear of clouds. So for an emergency to shoot an ILS would never become a reason. Sure knowledge is power to know how to fly IFR buy not be rated is nice but so is learning to SCUBA dive but live in a desert. You won't need to use SCUBA unless you jump in the water. Pilots choose to fly into the clouds makes it a choice not an emergency. If you want the option to choose to fly in the clouds then you must rate yourself to be instrument to give yourself that aforementioned choice. May I add another assimilation. All car drivers must learn how to drive Semi just incase we have to drive one. No, when the time to need to drive a Semi, you'd get the proper licensing to do so before getting on the highway in said semi. It's about choices.
No, not at all. An instrument rating will give you the knowledge and the confidence to trust and use your instruments regardless of what your "body" is telling you. This rating expands your skill set as a pilot.
I think there have been two IFR days all year where I live in AZ, and both cleared after a couple hours. Commercial without IFR is nice for us out here. The more important training, in this neck of the woods, is learning to fly the mountains and hot, turbulent, high DA days we have especially in summer.
Kudos to everyone trying to help this guy. You cant save someone who doesn't want to be save. Very sad and tragic
12:20 I bet he could hear the other pilots trying to talk to him but was just ignoring their calls at that point because he didn't want to hear it. It's amazing how many accidents actually come down to a pilot not being humble, being too macho, or too arrogant. Those pilot types need to leave that stuff on the ground.
I watch these vids and I sweat bullets. As a private vfr pilot no way would I ever ever consider doing something like this. Can't imagine what this pilot was going thru during last moments.
i am a student but they is so much to learn from this video thank you for the video
I am 2 mins into the video and already saying it. Over confidence and "I gotta get there on time" kills. It really doesn't matter if you are on time if you are dead.
ATC: "Sir... Chuck Norris has been spotted on foot within the Provo Pass. He looks pissed. You might want to rethink your fight plan,....over."
Pilot: "Roger that....Its Ok, I've seen all of his movies and I'm not impressed nor intimidated. I'll carry on...thank you."
ATC: " Ok..but he looks REALLY pissed."
Pilot: "No worries..I can see him from here 75 miles away...looks fine to me. I'll just slide in but if he raises a fist I'll slide back out."
I've flown across that area a number of times and there are so many airports where he could (and should) have landed. It wasn't as if he wasn't warned many times of deteriorating conditions ahead.