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The Creation Myth of the Proto Indo-Europeans
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- Опубликовано: 7 апр 2024
- Balance, order and chaos, the key themes in this creation myth, probably first told 6 to 8,000 years ago. This version, influenced from work by Bruce Lincoln and David Anthony, along with my own research, this is a contemporary telling of a reconstructed creation myth of the Indo-Europeans.
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As an archaeologist I love these videos! Obviously our professions have very different methods, but we share our ultimate goal in expanding upon the collective knowledge of humanity 🙌
Understanding reconstructed myths could help with the interpretation of finds.
@@Diogenes_43 precisely, understanding mythological themes and ideas often informs how we might suggest our findings be interpreted
@@DudeNamedDuncan oh I have, they’re both horrid men with stupid ideas who should be shunned. Any archaeologist can tell you they’re frauds, and are actively trying to mislead the general population in malicious anti-archaeological and anti-scientific ways
What a treat. Sitting here witnessing totality of the solar eclipse listening to the creation myth of the Indo-Europeans. Perfect timing, kudos
I think your telling of this primordial tale may be some of your very best work. Not only is it enormously informative and educational, it is also so beautifully written and narrated that there are times when it sounds truly poetic. Thank you for this rare gem. ❤
Thank you so much for your very kind words.
I am writing a thesis on mythology, and your videos have been a huge source of inspiration. This will be one as well, I know. Thank you for being this huge source of knowledge
Thank you, and I hope my future videos help as well.
@@Crecganford for the love of christ will you please stop with the asmr it almost impossible to watch the video
@@colorpg152 This is just my voice, no effects, just me reading out loud.
@@Crecganford i LOVE your voice
The Nāsadīya Sūkta, also known as the Hymn of Creation, is the 129th hymn of the 10th mandala of the Rigveda. It is concerned with cosmology and the origin of the universe.
It's nice sometimes, just hearing the story without all the breakdown and references. I appreciate the research and effort, but sometimes I just want to hear a good story.
I do have the Crecganford Reads channel, which I will slowly add that sort of content too.
@@Crecganford 😮 You should mention that once in a while! I had no idea, and it never comes up in my feed! Subbing now! 💗
@@Crecganfordbe sure to add this one, too! 💚
I do not yet know for sure how these stories trickle into the Hinduism practices today in India, but from a linguistic perspective the words Manus and Yemo bear direct derivatives from their Proto-Indo-European forms into Sanskrit as मनु / Manu and यम / Yam. Manu was an ancient sage and Yama is considered to be the cheerful king who whence dying first became the guard of hell in our stories. And not to ignore the importance of cows and their protection. We still have a saying that goes "A family doesn't starve in drought if they have a cow at home". Fascinating!
P.S. You mentioned eternal cycles in the universe, which is also mentioned within the Vedas in a similar fashion. In fact, we call the faith/practice as Eternal Duty (or how you interpret it, also as Eternal Religion).
Thanks for making this btw!
We use the Rig Veda to help reconstruct this myth, and so that is why you see connections, and these connections link to Romans, Greeks, Old Norse, Iranians, Persians, and even some biblical texts.
@@Crecganford Outstanding. If there is a video where you can show the similar constructs of time & Creation between both the Bible and Rig Veda, that would be truly amazing. In the Vedas, time is cyclical. Each major time period, according to the Vedas, consists of a Kalpa. A "kalpa" (or one day & night of Brahma, the first living being) is 4.32 billion years. It consists of 14 sub time periods, known as a "Manvantara," led by a "Manu." Preceding the 1st such Manvantara, there is a "Sandhya" (or "twilight" of Brahma) consisting of 1.728 Million years, and so on and so forth preceding the rest of the remaining Manvantaras. The earth ("Bhu-loka") is submerged in water in each of these "Sandhyas" or twilights of 1.728 million years.
Each such "Manvantara" means a duration of time of each Manu ("Manu" = man; "Antara" = interval/term), thus indicating there are MULTIPLE "Manus" leading each cosmological subepoch (14 to be exact). That's not all.
Each such "Manvantara" lasts for 306,720,000 Earth years (or, 852,000 divine years, with 1 divine year = 360 of our 4 season-completed 'solar' years) not including Brahma's twilight period of 1.728 million years preceding each such Manvantara.
Each Manvantara is then further subdivided into 72 more cycles known as "Yuga Cycle".
Each Yuga Cycle consists of 4 Yugas; namely a Satya Yuga (1.728 million years), Dwapara Yuga (1.296 million years), Dwapara Yuga (864,000 years), and Kali Yuga (432,000 years), with each such Yuga Cycle consisting of 4,320,000 years. Completion of 4 such Yugas is a "Maha" (great) Yuga (or Yuga Cycle).
It takes 72 such Maha Yugas (cycles), to complete one Manvantara. There are 14 Manvantaras, as mentioned,
The current universe, per Wikipedia, is currently being ruled by the 7th such Manu, meaning we are in the 7th Manvantara, 28th Yuga Cycle, in the 4th Yuga (Kali), of which we have only gone through about 5000 of the total 432,000 years of this Kali Yuga. After all the Manvantara's are completed, Creation will be destroyed ("Pralay'), with such destruction equaling 1,728,000 years. And that completes ONE day (and one night) of Brahma (the "kalpa"). One "Month" in Brahmic time (i.e, Brahma's time) means 30 such "days & nights," ie, 30 such Kalpas., or 259.2 billion years 30 x [2 x (306.72 M x 14 + 1.728 x 15) ]. Twelve "months" of Brhama is one "year" in HIS life, and he lives only 100 such cosmic years, constituting a "maha-kalpa" (311.04 trillion of our years). Fifty of Brahma's cosmic "years" have elapsed, and we are now in the "Shveta-Varaha Kalpa" or the 1st cosmic "day" of his 51st cosmic "year."
Each Kalpa (cosmic day of Brahma) has a name, according to the Matsya Purana.
Each Manu of each Manvantara has a different name. This Manu's name of our time, in Sanskrit, is known as "Vaivasvata," who was the king of ancient Tamil Nadu (southern kingdom of India), before a great flood. This same Manu, was warned of such a great flood, by a fish incarnation of God ("Vishnu"), and thus built a big BOAT which carried the Vedas, his family, and the seven sages "Sapta Rishis" to safety. Sound familiar?
Thus we have the concept of CONSTANT dissolutin/destruction followed by creation. All matter is subject to CONSTANT decay and destruction, a similar theme throughout ancient Hindu metaphysics.
The Genesis also says God created the Universe (or this Universe anyways), in 6 such "days." It is not clear on what such "day" references, a cosmic day or a human day. The first man, or Manu, is "Adam" and the first woman is "Eve." Beyond that I do not know much of the concepts of time, creation, destruction. Would love to see you publish something which speaks to the Vedas but in line with Christian and Hebrew metaphysics.
I can easily imagine you telling this story on a pleasantly warm summer eve to a group of companions gathered around a campfire, as I imagine those who first told it did thousands of years ago :)
RUclips:ROBERT SEPHER mit "Origins of the First EUROPEANS" 👋
Its interesting how the Indo-European creation myth was largely replaced with the Uralic "earth-diver" creation myth among the Slavs, although other versions existed
Yes, and a Christianized version of the Earth Diver myth at that, which gives us a clue of why it was replaced.
@@Crecganford wait so you mean that the earth-diver myth appeared amongst the Slavs only after christianisation?
RUclips:ROBERT SEPHER mit "Origins of the First EUROPEANS" 👋
Sounds like the Christianised version offers clues to its replacement not its appearance.
The Slavs very much had vedic/Iranian like Indo-European myths before. Even to this day some terms correspond between the two. Like Agni (vedic fire god) and ogni (fire in slavic languages). @@theotheagendashill818
You are such a great storyteller with such great stories to tell. Thank you.
Wow, thank you!
Already got some coffee ready and about to tune in and watch.😊 can't wait for this indeed brother.❤
Coffee! Heresy!
@@shanedussault740 😅 hehehe
It shoulda been tea
This is an awesome addition to your library! Really well done! Thank you!
These myths can tell us so much about our past and understand of the universe.
Crecganford is just the best! What a great way to start my day. Thanks for posting this
Thank you.
thank you for taking the time to create this video
I loved this. Your voice is so soothing. Perfect for story telling.
The program is beautiful.
Thank you.
Fantastic video.
I really appreciate the shorter than usual length. I know you have so much to say and it can be hard to trim things down, but sometimes its hard for me to make time for longer videos.
Thank you very interesting , incidentally regarding that matter , in the film Prometheus directed by Ridley Scot , humanity is imagined having been created and instructed by extraterrestrial entities "the engineers " now I mentioned that because in the film the android was able to communicate with those beings only via " proto-indo-european language " hinting that " indo-european languages for their elegance , beauty and sublime power must have been brought to humanity from a higher intellectual realm.
Yes, that was quite a clever scene, and from that a book called Grammar of the Indo-Europeans - Prometheus Edition was made. And a solid piece of work it is.
This one is colossal. Huge. Well done.
Wonderful telling of this story. The best i've heard. thank you so much!
To get a visual storytelling of the earliest creation myth that predates other ancient cultures is the both entertaining and enlightening. Thank you for this video sir 🙏
I always love your video. This video reminds me to your very first video. Your style has been improved over time ❤
Thank you for watching, and the kind feedback. I do try and improve where I can, but there is still a way to go.
It is the creation myth of the Norse fate thousands of years later, details differ, but the major concepts are there, like the cow, order vs chaos, the brothers, the sacrifice/slaying of a giant, to build the world out of his body parts.
That is because the Old Norse myth had significant influence from Indo-European cultures.
@@Crecganford I know Norse fate have a Indo-European orgin, I was so surprise that it was still so close to the "original" fate thousands of years later.
What a treat, enjoyed every minute of this video😊
This is a great format.
I agree..
And I'll say: while I like the long presentations, I also appreciate these shorter videos!
Thank you so much. Thanks to your videos I developed an interest in mythology and this has brought a lot of new knowledge and entertainment to my life. I'm now quite curious about PIE, prehistory and everything related to that. Thank you again, it's a always a great experience watch your videos.
Thank you so much for sharing how much my videos have inspired you, there is a lot more to tell and so I hope you keep watching.
I can see dark souls got some inspiration from this tale. Great Narration!
Such a beautiful story, full of love, respect, and perseverance. Thank you, Jon
The beginning of this story actually sounds a lot more scientifically accurate/plausible than what later religions came up with.
A lovely tale, thanks for bringing it together
I truly love your Videos... Sometimes hard to understand (cause I'm German and some technical Terms and your accent are hard tonl come by) but luckily you do have German subtitles and Transkript! Thanks for all your work and Insights.
Thank you for watching and your feedback, I will always try and improve.
Beautiful, after seeing the eclipse today I really feel this deeply. Good timing ❤
Also interesting is that the first brothers were twinns and one was sacrificed to create order. A practice still known.
Another great show.
Thank you.
Very nice, excellent! Thanks for sharing. Skal
Truly a wondrous reconstruction of one of the oldest recorded creation myths
Thank you for this! Perfect timing, as I'm sitting here in Toronto, watching the Moon eat the Sun while listening to this lovely rendition.
Thank you for a beautifully done video.
And thank you for watching.
Great stuff. I think this would do well on your other channel too. 😁
Tea time 🫖
That was great. I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Thank you.
Beautiful. Thank you.
great video!
I just made a video where I cover Caucasian version of Manu and Yemo, Manuka and Januka.
It has a lot of similarities to this reconstructed myth but its more of a Flood myth than creation of the world and has the Bull fight the dragon.
What I've researched (like Hindu Manu or Mazdian Yimo) its mostly about the destruction of the old world and recreation of the new, rather than outright a creation myth.
maybe its like this in more eastern stories.
keep up the good work
Thanks for the story ❤
Pretty awesome story thank you.
Very cool story!
had no idea chaos was cunning. surprising discovery.
My name is Manas, pronounced esactly like you did (Manus) - it means man in Sanskrit.
Thanks for connecting to my some distant roots. I am Amazed.
It’s very sad that despite all the progress and enormous variations of information a human mind can only describe its consciousness and nothing else. Probably, it’s the universal thinking limit: “There was nothing until a mind has formed and started to blindly divide and name every thing that it could possibly comprehend”.
The slaying of a multi headed serpent and the herding of cattle brings Hercules to my mind. Fascinating myth.
Excellent!
Thanks. A strangely Girardian, unsettling narrative...
I like this creative assemblage of several known moteifs. It is fairly distinct from my own attept at a plausible prehistory creation myth cycle, which focuses more on the earthdiver, primordial sea, pleiades, solar cycle, and water serpent as an ambivilant force.
This is great! I realize this is a synthesis, and you have pulled on several different myths to create this.
Would you mind listing which traditions you used? I love to compare and contrast the stories.
I have made a video about this, the sources and differences, just check out my channel and look for the Indo-European Creation Myth.
All the myths condensed in one!! Incredible!! And by the way, the serpent was also a universal symbol of chaos, not only for indoeuropeans. Do you guys, believe that there was an original mythology from before our ancestors left Africa? I know, sounds crazy, but is just incredible to find similar stories around all the globe.
Love your channel. Keep up the excellent work!!
Yes, I have made a video about this, our oldest creation myth.
You are free to believe that your ancestors left Africa based on a mere hypothesis Not a fact , whereas most Eurasians do not believe their ancestors came from Africa .
@@Crecganford i'll check it out. Thank you!!!
@@majidbineshgar7156 Cringe...
@@majidbineshgar7156Don't make me laugh.
The video is proposed with a French-translated title.
Hum!
It reads: " The myth of indo-european creation " instead of " the i-e myth of cr."
That is why I never use the expression Artificial Intelligence. Say Artificial Stupidity.
Sweet I get my favorite subject in ASMR form
Beautiful!
Thank you!
Nice. I still would like to hear older stories that don't have recent additions, like farming, in them. I'll guess that 15,000 years old and back is where they would be found. I would like to know about our carnivorous past and what people believed when they knew fatty meat was life.
I've never seen a cave painting of a salad or potato.
And from this, we get stories like Marduk defeating Tiamat, Heracles defeating the Lernian Hydra, Thor defeating Jormungandr, and St. George defeating the dragon.
I think the Marduk connection is less likely, but the others, absolutely.
@@Crecganford well, it seems so similar to the splitting of Yemo to create the cosmos as we know it. Marduk splits Tiamat in two pieces which become the waters above and the waters below. I thought the same thing.
Great video! 👍
In India, I believe the Austroasiatic cultures have given birth to the Vedic idea of the cosmic egg.
Crazy how it sounds so much like Hindu story. The celestial cow, Manu, etc
What a treat!
What is the origin of the name "Ingri"? It's very close to the female "Ingrid", a quite common name here in Sweden (and I think in all Scandinavia + Iceland).
Similar male names here being Inge and Ingvar. But I guess the origin of Ingri is other than old Norse.
It was meant to be Ng Whi, but I didn’t pick up the mistake in the captions.
It must probably be cognate with " Ignis = fire " in Latin-> proto -indo-european *h₁n̥gʷnís (“fire”).
Pretty good!!!
Reminds me of the Bundahišn.
This video is beautiful.
Thank you.
Cows are important. My wife and I have two Brahman cows here in Mindanao Philippines. It's easy to understand why cows were such a great part of the Proto-Indo-European creation myth.
The first part of the video seems almost a word to word translation of the nasadiya sukta from the rigveda
Wow. So many of these these and elements are at the core of our current modern existence. Of all the questions I have, the predominant one is: how would the world be different if the primordial myths did not involve sacrifice and salvation?
If you don't sacrifice something how do you show you really believe in it?
Interesting how the Germanic version moved Mannus into the position of Tuisto's son. Assuming that Tuisto is a form of Yemo of course. While the Norse Odin is Ymirs grandson.
Yes, but we also have to be a little cautious on the reliability of this, but also the myth changed the three parts of Yemo’s body to three regions of land. And so there would be an evolution dependant on society and the environment. What is really interesting is how Manu disappears from the Old Norse myth, a myth that probably influenced the Germanic myths initially. Where did Manu go, the reasonably young god Odin.
@@Crecganford One more thing in the Indic myth... Manu was a king... where the god of cosmic order Vishnu... took the form of a fish and informed Manu about the upcoming flood that would destroy humanity... and asked him to get onto an Ark, and carry all the necessary things, 7 sages, food supplies and animals with him. Tell me why would Manu be added into a story which is completely similar to the Semetic-biblical stories? A character that was supposed to be the primordial God. Doesn't really make sense... and also Manuus is the word used to describe a person in India and or Old Persia... which is (Manushya) although Yemo/Yama was sacrificed... both of these guys would later become to be the Sons of the SUN God in the Indic Faith... I'm kinda missing out on something things here btw...
Great story many similarities with other creation stories
Is the Mahabharata a work that exhibits somr influence of Hellenistic Greek culture? I was thinking that because it says online it was compiled between the 3rd centuries BCE and CE, which is the same time as there was this cultural cross-polinization in Gandhara and with the Kushans and so forth, from whom we see this golden age of Greco-Buddhist artwork, as well as perhaps the first manuscripts of the Buddha’s teachings. I’m starting to view that period, along with the reign of Shah Jahan as artistic Golden Ages in India’s history. I’ve seen discussions online that the Mahabharata could’ve been influenced by the Illiad. If this Hellenistic influence extends to Hindu epics is India as a much an heir to the Ancient Greeks as is Europe?
Hi, great video. I'm curiuous what some of the main primary sources are for this myth. It seems you have agregated several versions that appear over time - but what are some of the oldest versions (in terms of extant original texts we can read) that form the core of your version? Also, are you sort of translating certain ideas culturally, I'm wondering? I ask mainly because of you saying "nothing" existed. My understanding of at least the ANE is there was not a concept of "nothing" like we have today (and idea of no matter/material existing at all) but it was more functional or related to order and chaos. ANE creation myths often start with the ocean/abyss or dark chaotic waters. Like their version of nonecistent is just chaos with no order. Would you say its the same for these Indo-Eurpopean myths or do they have more like a modern understanding of "nothing". Thanks.
This story bears SOME similarities with the Nordic creation myth - written down in Icelandic some 800 years ago.
I have made a video, I fact many videos about this. Have a look at my channel and you'll find videos on the IE Creation Myth. I hope you enjoy them.
Basque mythology for diversity
Would be best taught and told from the Basque themselves.
Yay, stories older than indoeuropeans! This will be very interesting.
He does a good amount of non indo European myths. But that's his academic focus if I remember correctly. So he does mostly indo European stuff
I wonder how much work has been done-or is possible-to trace the orig8ns of these mythic elements back beyond the PIE culture? There’s evidence of Aurochs veneration and sacrifice among the builders of Stonehenge, with the suggestion that there was one belief system across Britain at the time. I’ve often wondered if the root that such beliefs grew from can be found.
It is what I research in my own time, and it is a hugely complex task, but I have some great people in the field helping me, and when we're ready we will publish the results.
Silmarillion next?
Is the Greek myth of Apollo slaying Python related at all to Trito and the serpent?
Yes, I have made some videos about dragon slaying, however the Apollo myth has less Indo-European influence than some of the others, as the hero isn’t Trito and no bovines are rescued.
@@Crecganford I see, thank you for the reply! I visited Delphi last May, it was one of the most magical places I’ve ever been and I couldn’t help think of the hero slaying a reptile serpent
Tell me a story
Hey, you never talked about the 'Battle of 10 kings' in vedas. You said you will 2 years ago but till now you didn't. It's a crucial part of Indo-European history, especially the Indo-aryan. You should have covered it.
The Genesis account is the only creation story which begins with a God outside of Time and Space. God speaks the material Universe into existence and remains outside of SpaceTime. Every other creation myth begins with something material. This one begins with some cosmic seeds which hatch out hot and cold mist which go on to make gods and cows and such. Where'd the seeds come from?
If you take Genesis 1:1-2 apart, you realize the god it refers to is Marduk, and so not a god out of time and space. But I can understand why believers in the Abrahamic faiths would think that based on translations of those lines.
❤️❤️❤️
What source gave you the idea that the gods were born from their thoughts?
Why does there need to be a single source?
@@Crecganford ok source(s) just curious where that came from, not familiar with it.
@@Crecganford so there isn’t one? I believe in Hinduism the gods come from Yemo’s parts. So not aware of the gods existing before explained anywhere or the gods coming from Manu and Yemo thoughts explained anywhere. If there is I’d like to know.
In some respects, this is a lot closer to the creation myths of the Norse sagas than it is to the Torah/Bible. Being of Germanic/Slavic descent, I find this very favorable.
That is because the Bible is influence significantly from the Near East, where as the Old Norse myth is significantly influenced by the Indo-European cultures. Still, both also have influence from the other cultures too.
A fascinating video. You used rigveda 10.129 rigveda 10.190 rigveda 1.105 rigveda right. There are a lot others as well for ex purusha sukta(rigveda 10.90.1) right. As far as norse mythology goes you might be referring to voluspa verse 3 right
I combined many creation myths from the Indo-European cultures, and picked the oldest versions along with the common stories, and then leveraged other’s work to ensure academic concensus.
I find parts of Rigveda 10.129 to be curiously similar to 道德經 (Tao Te Ching), at least Yuhui Liang's English translation.
@@ximono True bro true. I always find taoism and hinduism very similar. And I also read Tao te Ching. When you look at the Brahman in upanishads and look at Tao you don't see any differences. People always say Chinese philosophy is either Confucius or buddhism but the reality is taoism is older than both of them. Not only that but when you look at greek philosophy they are very similar to brahmanism as well.
@@Crecganford That's great
@@ArnavSharma-bj4ct Absolutely. Heraclitus especially of the greeks.
Dark souls intro
sorry - couzin
Do you know this book ? - change me as a teenager ...
IMAGES ENCYCLOPEDIA
by Allan Wesler PHD FN'84. It surveys 367 images from the Terminal Ice Age decorated caves (the first art in the world) through primitive and ancient civilizations to today's societies and religions; and conjoins the images within the singularity of a graphic Snake Ring Story by advanced toolmakers in the Terminal Ice Age caves initiating
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Logic and internal consistency are not very important to those inventing mythology!😂 Still, a well presented video!👏
Instead of Ranjit P I am gonna change my RUclips channel as a channel dedicated to myths and folklore of the World.
I hope you are successful, you can never see too much content about myths!
How do we know the indo-europeans believed that? What's the source for this? It sounds awfully Babylonian-ish. According to what I have read we don't have any reference to the idea of kingship until the early dynastic period.
Great questions, and I have made many videos covering this. Look for the one titled "Reconstructing the Proto Indo-European Myth of Creation" which should answer many of your questions, and I hope allow you to have many more.
You mention an ocean God, may it have been either the Black sea or the Caspian sea or perhaps both?
The Caspian Sea may well have been more in the minds of the earliest Indo-European speakers when creating their myths. However, in truth, gods were more like spirits, the "life force" of nature, and so not as we really consider them today.
Yaweh - Storm God ?
It is said that Yahweh was at one point in his evolution a Storm God.
@@Crecganford Indeed. Caught a show just recently. Yaweh was doing OK till he met Lilith. Don't recall if that's what turned him into a Storm God or not : )
ta
Kings, priests, cattle and swords. How old can this myth be ?
This is at least 6,000 years, and possibly 8kya.
♪♫♥- Very Interesting - Thank you for sharing this ;)
There is no way that this is disconnected from the mesoamarican hero twins
Needs to be written in a meter!
That will be published in my book.
@@Crecganford what meter did you choose?
The Tocharian bridge Eastern beliefs with Western.
And now we wait for somebody to translate it to Dnghu a.k.a. Proto-Indo-European