Don't Make This Songwriting Mistake
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
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Are your vocal melodies a bit of a snooze fest? Make sure you're not making this common songwriting mistake.
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▶︎▶︎ FREE Songwriting Masterclass: www.homestudiocorner.com/50
that link takes me to a description of your vocal mixing process, not songwriting.
Great video! There's a reason why learning some music theory is a good idea. As pointed out in this video, a melody of roots is pretty dull. When I've analyzed many of the melodies I like, there's a lot of tension/release, such as 4th to 3rd, 7th to 8th (root), 2nd to root... the notes NOT part of the major triad can create interesting tension/release concepts. The vocal melody of the Knack's "My Sharona" hangs out all day on the flat 7th. You sit there and wait for it to resolve, and it feels good when it does. The tension in the flat 7th matches the sexual tension of the singer. Then you read the lyrics and it sure sounds like Sharona is jailbait, but hey, it was the end of the 70s and KISS had a hit with Christine Sixteen. Eek! OK, now I'm way off track. Anyway, great video.
I went to a class one time when Benji Cowart said, “The Bridge should be the part of the song where the hero is walking toward the camera as the building behind explodes. If it’s a slow song, the explosion is in slo-mo.” 😂
Great video. Something I never really considered in my songwriting, but I’ll pay more attention.
I learned to sing by following chords. Using music theory is a great way to get out of a rut. Try going from a minor tone to a major, or vice versa.
Lately I’ve been playing with modes, using 7th chords to switch between modal textures.
This allows for some interesting melodic choices.
This was really helpful thanks a lot joe
Some of the best songs ever written were mistakes. So I disagree, there are no rules, just write.
100% agreed! I don't even write many prechoruses. Music= if it sounds good it probably is! Simple enough
This video is huge for me, because it’s a problem I’ve always had but was never able to articulate. Thanks for this one, Joe!
I have found that trying to find and work in some sexier chords even if they are just 7ths, 9ths, and sus chords to give me more notes for my brain to choose from.
I accidentally started a melody on the 7th recently, it sounded cool as hell
A great topic Joe but (as a guitar teacher) I would add 'put the guitar down !' . Find a keyboard and pick your vocal melody out there - also try staying on one chord for a longer time. You mention running up the scale - I say listen to the most covered song of all time "Yesterday" by the Beatles. "All my troubles seem so.." runs note by note up the 7th scale. We can learn so much from the masters - and Joe you're a master. !
For me, it's less that following the bassline is bad and more that there's no tension to release. Choosing the first note that comes to mind just because it doesn't clash is boring.
The tip to move the chorus up higher is most Tom Petty songs... and he often is playing the same chords as the verse!
Great point. Extra boring points if the bass only plays the chord root notes. Changing up the chord voicings, and threading the melody through those voicings tends to weave it all together best. For me, anyway.
Yeah, and being the bass player and lead singer makes this such a hard trap not to fall into.
tip number 2b
Not only on the FIRST down beat can be on a «colour» note but you can also end a phrase on an extention note of the chord , as long as it will be resolved on the suite of the phrase, and also, on all other strong beats. For example: «The Windmills Of Your Mind» (Michel Legrand).
There are no mistakes in song writing or music in general.
I always say, mistakes can take your song into a different direction you never would have thought of. That’s something that’s missing from modern computer programmed music.
I don’t even know what a major third is. I just sing 😂😂
My guess, after pausing during you playing Blackbird, is that…are you singing along with a melody derived from the notes you’re playing on the guitar instead of a separate melody that would ride on top of what you’re playing on guitar?
I take a songwriting class online, and one of them was a melody retreat. We were taught varaitions and directions on where a malody can go, zig zag, downward, static (staright across) I love crafting melodies and love to experiment!
This was one of the most clear explanations of something I've been trying to figure out in my songwriting. Thanks!
I don’t see a melody following the bass line as a problem during a verse especially if the songwriter is trying to convey a droning or dreary feel (“I was alone and sad….”).
Then if the chorus shifts into a more soaring and melodic mood (“Then I met you and everyday was happy day…..”!😄).
The contrast helps in this case.👍
Most good melodies start on the 3rd, can't go wrong with the 3rd just ask Taylor Swift
Thanks Joe, great advice!
Hey Joe, where you going with that mix in your hands ? 🎶🎶🎶
I get it that some of the examples you mention in this video could be better for the arrangements of the songs but calling them mistakes is a slight stretch. If you just think they’re boring or whatever that’s fine but “mistakes”? At least not based on what you’re describing. There are examples of where this takes place all over especially in pop music and it still works. I think you mentioned that too. If the lead vocals follow the bass and there are small deviations from the bass that can still be just fine… 😊
The first song is lost in the early 2000’s, but totally cool nonetheless.
Love your approach and methods sir!
Love this new setup.
this is really helpful. I am just learning about writing songs. Gonna check out the songwriting class.
#3 bass line becomes melody
Love this idea of trying different notes to start the melody. Such a great idea! Thanks
For some reason I can't get to the songwriting masterclass even after purchasing the vocal mixing. It's also not available under free stuff or paid courses. Where do I find it?
Use the link I mentioned in the video. www.homestudiocorner.com/50
Dude, this is good stuff. Thanks!
I don’t think any of these are “mistakes”, they’re just options. Example; the way you played Everlong is how Dave does it live acoustic (but obviously without the driving guitar). Listen to hooky songs, many of them follow these tips. My vocal and song writing coaches both told me “choruses are dying to start with the tonic” if you are transitioning from a pre-chorus or verse that started on the 3rd/5th or whatever. What I like about these tips is you don’t really have to know much about theory, just print out a list of keys and all the notes, then try with different starting points.
Big Thank You for this video! So many great on-point simple tips.
Sitting in the car to work each day I will for sure pick up on the follow the bas line humming and adding the "identify the intervalls" game. Seems like a great practice!
Also just try changing the starting tone when I get stuck in the melody seems like an "unlocking" thing to try.
Hey, don't blame the bassline - it's the root of each chord! I used to do that when I started writing songs, so now I can't even listen to my first 30 or 40 songs, lol.
On the first one I'm missing the 4-3 but I could be wrong I don't know the song - On Blackbird you are not singing the lead vocal you are sing a harmony or Bass Vocal - it ends as a Bass Vocal.
Thanks for the tips. I am working on a song and feeling like I need to overhaul the melody. Your video is very helpful!
Always quality advice and tips Joe, thank you!
Good video! I don't usually start with chords; I have some lyric idea and I develop a melody...but my basslines are weird! 😁
Thanks; very helpful!
That Trini Lopez is looking mighty cool
Paul McCartney, Sting and Geddy Lee (Rush) all make great studies for the relationship between vocal melodies and the bassline. Sting's solo (post Police) work is highly melodic with really terrific basslines. Rush's discography from 1980 - 1990 is also highly melodic and has the bonus of using both electric bass and/or synth bass in context with the vocal melodies. Neat stuff!
I have a tendency to start on 5ths so this gives other possibilities. My range is limited (and I’m not really a vocalist, shhh) so I tend to not waver too much.
The 60fps caught me off guard things are going pretty well?
Next it'll be 192khz sr lmao
Huh?
@@HomeStudioCorner I was just hammered. Trying to be smart. I noticed that the frame rate of your video was higher than 24fps. So I figured I would insert a sample rate joke to get everybody's penises silky
@@HomeStudioCorner I noticed your video quality got a lot better. It's been over a year since I've seen one of your videos. You look 20% more handsome
I’ll take it
Great video Joe. #4 when you don't wanna change the melody and stuck in your chord progression, try to use slash chords
Melody follows the chords - see The Kinks!
Ok #1 too repetitive
Great advice, thanks man 🙏
This is just what i needed right now. Thanks Joe
#2 same
👍🏻✅
My guess: Don't sing exactly what you play, don't play the roots or always start from the roots.
Calling this a mistake is really exaggerated! Plenty of songs have vocals following the bass line and are universally recognised as good or great songs - some of them are included in these examples. Having the vocal melody following the music (or vice versa, points of view) is not a mortal sin. There are songs where the music melody perfectly doubles the vocals, and there's nothing wrong with them. It totally depends on the song. It's not a mistake!
"some of them are included in these examples." -- What do you mean here?
Good stuff, as always. I really struggle with this, and your suggestions help.
Also, can we have a look at that Artcore?
haha. Nah. It's ancient and only has 5 strings on it. 😂
Guess before reveal: That they're using too much of the root note of the key
I was close
Hello, Joe. Can you release a video about creating arrangements for songs? Something simple and basic too. Especially how to combine different rhythmic patterns
Check out my recording course, also this video: ruclips.net/video/ZviXWRp87Ps/видео.html
@@HomeStudioCorner, okay, thanks.
Interesting observation!
Q: How do I find the right instrument for my melody?
I'm not sure I understand the question.
@@HomeStudioCorner I hummed a melody into my phone, but it isn't fitting for piano or guitar, it is more like a movie theme. But I can't find the right instrument/sound to bring it alive....
I don’t think there’s an answer to a question like that…other than to simply try different instruments until you hear one you like.
Sitting in the dock of the bay by Otis redding obviously missed the memo.
Yeah there will always be exceptions. It follows the bass line on the first line, but not on the second line.
Oh yeah you're right on the verses. Again, there will always be exceptions to the rule.
I even follows the melody with a whole major chord. It's so weird! I'm not a fan of the song, but it's a bit unique. I wholeheartedly agree that it's a bad idea to have a melody that follows the bassline. I'd like to go one step further and say try to avoid even having the same rhythm. That being said, playing octqves along with the melody sometimes done in short passages in funk and I wouldn't change the unison horn and bass part in sir Duke by Stevie Wonder. Anyway, keep up the good work, I thoroughly enjoy your videos and have learned alot from them.
What are pick-ups, Joe?
Whatever comes in the 335
@@HomeStudioCorner Ha ha! But of course we know that wasn't what the question meant. I think it was really about phrases which start before the 1 beat of the bar?
Sorry I'm not sure what your question is. Phrase which start before the first beat of the bar can be called pick-ups, or sometimes it's called a push. Is that what you're asking?
Dont really understand the point of this video 😂