@@Sas-ym4gg it ruins the dungeon runs , imagine you make a group and a max geared out guy got full boosted , never cared about runs and come to your +10 and keep dying to bs and lack the ability to do dmg , loot should be rewarded for effort.
I think its a great idea the timer is 100% the biggest roadblock and fear when it comes to people even wanting to start doing m+. Also side note it should be team wipes
Annd just like that m+ has become braindead, even more rigid meta slow and boring pulls. Alomg with waiting for cds every pull. They would lotterally have too make most mobs cc imune aswell since at that point could litterally cc all but 1 enemy and kill a pack 1 mob at a time.
I would love a mythic + style that scales without a timer. I play to chill. The people who care about timers are doing 10+. Above 10 you can choose to have a timer and if you make it drops an extra piece for the group. Remove key depletion. Idc about timer death penalty. I could take it or leave it.
there is delves for that , go do delves and craft gear , you don't need to consider hard endgame content , that stuff is mostly for veterans , and the m+ community , that's why there is infinite scaling , you can easily do a +7 with 15 deaths my friend , if you die 15 times and you think that removing the timer will be a solution , your pretty delusional.
I dunno why they don’t just make the timing of a key linked to score… have a base score for completion (timed or untimed), then a bonus for no deaths (or like a bonus amount that is reduced by each death to a cap, say 5 like delves). Additionally you could have a scaling score based on how much faster you complete a key over the timer. That would solve the un-fun punishment issue and would still incentivize people to stay in a key instead of dipping. Being better just gives more score… you wouldn’t lose anything for just staying in a key that has timed out
I wonder if a 1-15 scaling would work. Scrap M0 dungeons and scale 1-5 to have no timers and teach people how to play. 5-10 would be the challenging bit of content with a timer, extra mechanics, and the reward being once completed all dungeons on 5-10 will give you class ensambles and a weapon skin. 10-15 could exist for the dauntless. THEN mega dungeons should involve the bronze dragon flight allowing us to not be limited to expansion themed dungeons. They can go crazy giving us cool and unique boss mechanics to test out.
M+ is the timer, people misdiagnose the issues. The issue is everything tied to the timer. The key depletion, the crest reduction, punishments which enforce meta slave player behavior and selective group finder invites. If they'd remove key depletions , they'd instantly make M+ 1000% less toxic.
I dont think you guys understand that even without a timer, coordinating so that no one gets 1 shot by any abilities in a +12 and higher is still hard for PUGs. No one will want to do a 45 min-1 hour dungeon as well. That's real sweaty business.
If mythic+ gets rid of the timer, I’m thinking there should be some way to gain lives back. Each player could start with 3-4 lives then get +1 if you survive a boss fight.
If they put the death counter at 40, sure, whatever. But if it’s reachable by a couple wipes and some odd deaths… RIP getting multiple keys done a night if you don’t have an invuln or cheat death mechanic. 5 pally comp inc.
The timer isn't the problem. Tank and healiung has become AWFUL to do. Which means most people dont opt into those roles. We are then left with even less people to play in M+ I dont even want to log in anymore
@@SamiccusI liked the idea behind the tanking changes, but I think it had to be in conjunction with significant healing/damage intake changes… which has not been the case. Positively broken tanks were way better than negatively broken tanks lol.
The 15 sec death timer should be personnal. It will force people to play better and it will not punish others for idiots who dont use defensive CD or bask in swirlies. The group is already punished enough to have a noob in it.
Maybe this is a controversial opinion, maybe not, I don’t know since I haven’t been doing M+. But I think they should just go to the raid model - if you beat it, you can go to the next key up. No timers, no death counts, just…finish or don’t. Simple as.
I wouldnt remove timer, would even be willing to keep the -5sec per Death (15 is nuts that needs to be gone). Idk about reinviting, it would play into cards of boosting groups. Key depletion after leaver or not in time key should be removed. Think people are most sick about their key droping levels cuz some weakminded tryhard decides to leave. Also it needs bigger punishment for leavers. Generaly biggest sickness of the m+ is leavers and it made me stop playing them at all after i got ksm. I dodged them completly, none of my alts entered a single one.
It forces you to run only optimal routes. Which requires people to study to figure that out. No one wants wow to be something they need to study for. Beyond that, timers heavily incentives people to take optimal class setup which would put people playing other classes or specs at a disadvantage in group selection. Consider how many time is you might make a group and not pick some one because "I still need someone who can lust" or "we need a Brez" or "we can't do this route without sap". Sure, it won't matter below 10 all that much. But a lot of people THINK it will. Removing the timer would at least reduce how often people are passed over because of the route others want to run because they want the best time possible.
@@Na0uta Okay, so you don't like raiding either? That needs to be studied for. You're meant to learn these things while going through the key levels. Timers are not what incentivizes the meta; people want their keys to go smoothly regardless. Removing timers would not remove meta. The best classes will always be chosen over others in competitive party form content.
I agree with this in one way but I would say make it mechanics less punishing. Don't make it so much about interrupts and cc and dancing with thousands of ground effects; instead, like dungeons used to be, it was more about good tanking, healing, and damage.
@djbedu one other way to smoth things is to make the healing health/bars move a bit slower to min-max this is going to release alot of pressure on healing!
They wouldn’t want people getting boosted by allowing a group to do a full run and then get an invite at the last boss.
***Selling Completed Dungeon. +12. At last boss. GET ALL LOOT***
It would happen forsure but you can fix that if you just don’t allow people to kick others. Only someone leaving allows invites
Who cares? Let people get carried if they want to.
@@Sas-ym4gg it ruins the dungeon runs , imagine you make a group and a max geared out guy got full boosted , never cared about runs and come to your +10 and keep dying to bs and lack the ability to do dmg , loot should be rewarded for effort.
They can always just make loot qualification tied to killing all bosses.
I think its a great idea the timer is 100% the biggest roadblock and fear when it comes to people even wanting to start doing m+.
Also side note it should be team wipes
Annd just like that m+ has become braindead, even more rigid meta slow and boring pulls. Alomg with waiting for cds every pull.
They would lotterally have too make most mobs cc imune aswell since at that point could litterally cc all but 1 enemy and kill a pack 1 mob at a time.
I would love a mythic + style that scales without a timer. I play to chill.
The people who care about timers are doing 10+.
Above 10 you can choose to have a timer and if you make it drops an extra piece for the group.
Remove key depletion. Idc about timer death penalty. I could take it or leave it.
there is delves for that , go do delves and craft gear , you don't need to consider hard endgame content , that stuff is mostly for veterans , and the m+ community , that's why there is infinite scaling , you can easily do a +7 with 15 deaths my friend , if you die 15 times and you think that removing the timer will be a solution , your pretty delusional.
I dunno why they don’t just make the timing of a key linked to score… have a base score for completion (timed or untimed), then a bonus for no deaths (or like a bonus amount that is reduced by each death to a cap, say 5 like delves). Additionally you could have a scaling score based on how much faster you complete a key over the timer. That would solve the un-fun punishment issue and would still incentivize people to stay in a key instead of dipping. Being better just gives more score… you wouldn’t lose anything for just staying in a key that has timed out
I wonder if a 1-15 scaling would work.
Scrap M0 dungeons and scale 1-5 to have no timers and teach people how to play.
5-10 would be the challenging bit of content with a timer, extra mechanics, and the reward being once completed all dungeons on 5-10 will give you class ensambles and a weapon skin.
10-15 could exist for the dauntless.
THEN mega dungeons should involve the bronze dragon flight allowing us to not be limited to expansion themed dungeons. They can go crazy giving us cool and unique boss mechanics to test out.
Blizzard will not admit their design change was bad for at least 2-3 expansions. This idea of re-expanding the key range is a pipe dream.
take off MM+ timer and it is the end of MM+ runs, no challenge, it will become completely useless trust me
Ya people dont realize how braindead and boring it would be.
There would actually be no skill expression what so ever.
M+ is the timer, people misdiagnose the issues. The issue is everything tied to the timer. The key depletion, the crest reduction, punishments which enforce meta slave player behavior and selective group finder invites. If they'd remove key depletions , they'd instantly make M+ 1000% less toxic.
I dont think you guys understand that even without a timer, coordinating so that no one gets 1 shot by any abilities in a +12 and higher is still hard for PUGs. No one will want to do a 45 min-1 hour dungeon as well. That's real sweaty business.
If mythic+ gets rid of the timer, I’m thinking there should be some way to gain lives back. Each player could start with 3-4 lives then get +1 if you survive a boss fight.
If they put the death counter at 40, sure, whatever. But if it’s reachable by a couple wipes and some odd deaths… RIP getting multiple keys done a night if you don’t have an invuln or cheat death mechanic. 5 pally comp inc.
Exactly. Cries in no defense Boomkin (except bear which means no damage and still not a guaranteed survival).
The timer isn't the problem. Tank and healiung has become AWFUL to do. Which means most people dont opt into those roles. We are then left with even less people to play in M+
I dont even want to log in anymore
Tanking is absolute garbage I agree. They need to revert all changes and go back to dragonflight tanking
@@SamiccusI liked the idea behind the tanking changes, but I think it had to be in conjunction with significant healing/damage intake changes… which has not been the case. Positively broken tanks were way better than negatively broken tanks lol.
The 15 sec death timer should be personnal. It will force people to play better and it will not punish others for idiots who dont use defensive CD or bask in swirlies. The group is already punished enough to have a noob in it.
Maybe this is a controversial opinion, maybe not, I don’t know since I haven’t been doing M+. But I think they should just go to the raid model - if you beat it, you can go to the next key up. No timers, no death counts, just…finish or don’t. Simple as.
That's too simple for Ion Hazzikostas' liking, he likes his torture chamber to be very complex and punishing.
Just bring back the way it was in legion, everyone was stoked about it.
I wouldnt remove timer, would even be willing to keep the -5sec per Death (15 is nuts that needs to be gone). Idk about reinviting, it would play into cards of boosting groups. Key depletion after leaver or not in time key should be removed. Think people are most sick about their key droping levels cuz some weakminded tryhard decides to leave. Also it needs bigger punishment for leavers. Generaly biggest sickness of the m+ is leavers and it made me stop playing them at all after i got ksm. I dodged them completly, none of my alts entered a single one.
I'm so lost on how people hate timers so much. What is it about the timer that people actually don't like?
It forces you to run only optimal routes. Which requires people to study to figure that out. No one wants wow to be something they need to study for.
Beyond that, timers heavily incentives people to take optimal class setup which would put people playing other classes or specs at a disadvantage in group selection. Consider how many time is you might make a group and not pick some one because "I still need someone who can lust" or "we need a Brez" or "we can't do this route without sap". Sure, it won't matter below 10 all that much. But a lot of people THINK it will. Removing the timer would at least reduce how often people are passed over because of the route others want to run because they want the best time possible.
@@Na0uta Okay, so you don't like raiding either? That needs to be studied for. You're meant to learn these things while going through the key levels.
Timers are not what incentivizes the meta; people want their keys to go smoothly regardless. Removing timers would not remove meta. The best classes will always be chosen over others in competitive party form content.
Just change that deaths dont reduce the timer and its fixed not so hard....
If they let ppl invite other ppl groups will swap ppl to boost gear at the last boss
1-5 no timer 6 + timer easy.
CC might be back
Terrible idea. Super slow pulls, a lot of waiting dor CD's leaving 1 dude AFK at the entrance for boosting, etc...
Nope i have NVIDIA Quadro 2000
Just increase the dps .....problem solved
I agree with this in one way but I would say make it mechanics less punishing. Don't make it so much about interrupts and cc and dancing with thousands of ground effects; instead, like dungeons used to be, it was more about good tanking, healing, and damage.
@djbedu one other way to smoth things is to make the healing health/bars move a bit slower to min-max this is going to release alot of pressure on healing!