Love your reviews. But in the review of the U1272A you made an error testing the capacitance function. You can't use long leads to measure small capacitors. Try it again using 4 inch test leads, and you will see that it will be much, much better. This is not a fault of the multi-meter. Its just physics. Thanks again. I love your channel.
@rotlerin The problem with giving a recommendation is always "it depends" on your requirements. With two competing top shelf instruments like this, there is never a clear winner. The Agilent is better bang-per-buck, has datalogging and cal certificate. The Fluke is more proven and trustworthy, a better audible continuity tester, High-Z input, has a lifetime warranty and proven spare parts, but not as many features. How do you pick a clear winner? People have to make up their own minds.
12 лет назад+3
Cool, as for medical doctor problably a multimeter is not the most "must have" product, but I always love watching your teardowns and reviews. Keep this good work and greetings from Poland! Waiting for the next vid.
When you measure capacitance in the pico-Farad range you need to do so without the cables. Simply unplug the cables and insert the capacitors directly into the U1272A. You can also buy the auxilary capacitance tweezer, this has inbuild ground sheild. Then you get the measurement right.
@TheChipmunk2008 Yep, in theory that would be it. Only problem is that small maximum voltage, so you have to put cells back-to-back to make it work. I should test this out further.
@EEVblog Yet we all cringed when you pulled the cap off the LCR meter and put it on the mat to use the DVM. What happens when you use the top R range to measure the mat?
I noticed that for every capacitor you tested, except the 'large' one, you had both leads against that anti-static mat. That parallel resistance may be why you saw such errors. As for the application of 240VAC under ohmmeter mode, it seems normal if there's an MOV or similar element switched into the circuit. Every MOV data sheet I've seen has a capacitance figure listed, and it's not a trivial amount. Overall, I like this meter, save the cost. Hopefully they fix the 'stupid' things about it.
Thank you for the great review Dave. When I first saw this meter and read about some of the features, I thought that this is really nice for the price. I even saw Agilent has one in the same line up with an OLED display. The biggest turn off with the OLED is the battery life, it is only about 30 - 60 hours! Crazy sexy display but not at a tenth of the battery life of the LCD models.
@Th3Su8 That's still a lot better than Agilent's U1250 series OLED model! Depends how much you use the meter. If it's only occasional use for 5 minutes here and there then even 30 hours life can last a long time. If it's your solid everyday use meter, then it of course sucks :->
As a reviewer of the best-in-world kit both companies and public respect you because you are brutally honest no matter who's stuff you are reviewing. When companies like Agilent, Fluke et al are obviously keen for you to promote their products above others especially when accompanied with the review freebie. I thought I saw a small crack appear under this pressure at the end of the vid where maybe you felt you had to make a decision in saying which MM you thought was the best.
@williefleete If you wanted a 10k resistor, then ten 100k high precision resistors in parallel will produce a very accurate 10k reference. You can use the same principle to make what ever reference value you require. For every high precision resistor you add in parallel, you will drop the error a small amount. IE. if you want a 1k resistor, then 100 100k resistors will be more accurate than ten 10k ones. It generally also works out cheaper than getting 0.000x% accuracy ones...
One thing I wondered about the 87V and this meter is why is Siemens used as the unit to measure really high resistances? You'd think they'd use Siemens for low resistance (e.g. conductance, which you measure in Siemens :P). Seems back to front for me.
@EEVblog Ah, okay. Thanks for responding! IIRC, you *did* show us in another vid that it is several meg-ohms per centimeter, but that may well have been the backing material and *not* the blue face. I'll go look it up, as I'm trying to find an affordable but durable solution for my own lab. Either way, that really is a huge measurement error! I wonder if Agilent support people will help you out, with an explanation or a good firmware update (or a new meter :).
Could it be the internal temp gauge isn’t meant to read ambient room temp but meant to read internal meter temp to help get a more accurate and consistent device calibration?
Re. that 10u ceramic - if it was a crappy dielectric like Z5U, these have significant voltage dependence, so different readings on different meters is not surprising.
the resistance error is probably the PTC used to protect it and the resistance range is measuring that in addition to the DUT. BTW what would it take to make a resistance reference
Just an idea, is it possible that the capacitance test failed because of remaining voltage from the other "proper" instrument? Need to discharge first?
@aiden1015 I can't do that until it's finished processing, and that takes all night. I upload before I go to bed. Type U1272a into RUclips, I'm 3 of the first 4 results, not hard to find.
Just FYI I bought that was tested 12-20-2011 according to the included documentation and the internal temperature and external thermocouple temperature is usually right on the spot or .1 difference.
Can you image what it would cost Agilent to make a similar video, what with the Klieg lights and makeup artists? There is plenty of room at the bottom left and right of the range switch to add a couple of stick-on rubber bumpers as spacers to guard against the face-plant situation. The use of 7 segments to draw fake letters is kind of cheesy, but it's an absolutely amazing amount of features for USD$370. I might just have to buy one.
@BrentBXR No review can please everyone, not possible. If you don't like something I talk about or focus on, just ignore it. There are other people who want to see those things. Yes, I'm partial to the Fluke 87. Why? Because I've used it extensively for 20 years and it is a proven performer, it's an industry standard. The continuity beeper being slow is a *major* possible make/break buying decision for many people. If I missed anything in the review you wanted covered, let me know.
@aiden1015 That's probably because, as Dave has said before, he tends to set the video uploading and go to bed. He can't add an in-video link until it's finished, for which he also unsurprisingly has to be awake. I believe the twitter alert is automated.
Aw, come on, @aiden1015 was just making a 9GAG reference. Still I agree Dave's not a scumbag :-) I actually have to admit that the EEVblog is one of the, if not THE best electronics-videoblog thing known to mankind. :-)
@dynetrax Well, what is "conductive?" It obviously has to um, conduct any static to the ground lead and I don't know how it could do that without providing a path to ground. It's a matter of degree.
beep being slow is a big issue for me.if am toning a circuit to find where the path goes and i have to wait a moment before it beeps as opposed to hearing a beep as soon as i probe the circuit its bothersome to me because if you move to quickly you can actually go past the other side of circuit without noticing because the beep took so long.i have meters that i have purchased and don't use just because the beep is too slow
maybe the bug in the firmware that you mentioned with the blue hold button and turning it on is not a bug but a function to test/check the display ? is that a possibility ?
This review shows how amazing Fluke's 87 series meters are. I would not take this thing over an 87. 87 is a shit brick house, every feature works as expected and well.
***** Resolution ~= Accuracy. Those are two different things for one. 20k count on 87V is plenty. In fact anything more is just a gimmick, as DMMs don't have a heated voltage ref to prevent drift. Nor would you want them to. You want your DMM to have a long battery life. 87 is a well designed tool, u1272a is more of a toy.
SirMo er....have you looked at the accuracy specs for both meters? Not resolution or counts, but accuracy. protip: the agilent has an order of magnitude better accuracy on almost all functions and ranges. In no range or mode does the fluke do better.
Jon Sands Those specs are nothing more than what both manufacturers guarantee. They don't tell you the actual accuracy over time. Based on decades of Fluke having a great reputation we know that Fluke adds in tons of margin in their published specs. And their meters are known to never drift past the spec even when abused. Agilent can't cheat physics, for an accurate high resolution meter you need a heat compensated voltage ref. like those found on bench DMMs. Why do you think even 5 1/2 digit bench DMMs have temp compensated voltage references? This is why high resolution on hand held DMMs is mostly a gimmick.
@The123jeffrey well, I sometimes "think" using Dave's voice when I'm working on a project, debugging something, stuff like that... If that makes sense. :P
Just because Fluke makes idiots proof multimeters, does not mean this one is bad. "i don't like is" really? who gives a crap. you treat it like an idiot, you don't deserve it. there's nothing correct in the way you are "testing" that multimeter. circus, that's it.
@mlnepmail Not a big fan of 9GAG I like looking at old content on Reddit. But I feel like my comment was taken a bit too seriously, I don't think Dave is a scumbag, I absolutely love the blogs and his power supply is helping a lot on a solar panel simulator jig I'm designing for ground testing of a satellite.
@aiden1015 Time and place for everything. You're in a room with a bunch of 'old' electronics geeks (I say that lovingly), and I've no doubt that particular meme went WAY over most heads. I'm gonna ASSume you're in your 20s, so it'd be akin to me making a joke referencing Nixon, and you not getting it. Don't worry, it's nothing personal; just an age & culture issue. And please don't hold it against us. Many of us rarely have time to get out of the lab and into the real world for long. {8)
Stick with fluke. These other companies are trying to prove nothing to compare them with others..all a joke. Save ur money for the best and you won't have problems down the road. Don't like keysight period...
Love your reviews. But in the review of the U1272A you made an error testing the capacitance function. You can't use long leads to measure small capacitors. Try it again using 4 inch test leads, and you will see that it will be much, much better. This is not a fault of the multi-meter. Its just physics. Thanks again. I love your channel.
@rotlerin The problem with giving a recommendation is always "it depends" on your requirements. With two competing top shelf instruments like this, there is never a clear winner. The Agilent is better bang-per-buck, has datalogging and cal certificate. The Fluke is more proven and trustworthy, a better audible continuity tester, High-Z input, has a lifetime warranty and proven spare parts, but not as many features. How do you pick a clear winner? People have to make up their own minds.
Cool, as for medical doctor problably a multimeter is not the most "must have" product, but I always love watching your teardowns and reviews. Keep this good work and greetings from Poland! Waiting for the next vid.
When you measure capacitance in the pico-Farad range you need to do so without the cables. Simply unplug the cables and insert the capacitors directly into the U1272A.
You can also buy the auxilary capacitance tweezer, this has inbuild ground sheild. Then you get the measurement right.
@TheChipmunk2008 Yep, in theory that would be it. Only problem is that small maximum voltage, so you have to put cells back-to-back to make it work. I should test this out further.
@EEVblog Yet we all cringed when you pulled the cap off the LCR meter and put it on the mat to use the DVM. What happens when you use the top R range to measure the mat?
I noticed that for every capacitor you tested, except the 'large' one, you had both leads against that anti-static mat. That parallel resistance may be why you saw such errors.
As for the application of 240VAC under ohmmeter mode, it seems normal if there's an MOV or similar element switched into the circuit. Every MOV data sheet I've seen has a capacitance figure listed, and it's not a trivial amount.
Overall, I like this meter, save the cost. Hopefully they fix the 'stupid' things about it.
Great review DJ.
Nice to see you here. Am a big fan of yours. Hope to see new multimeter review videos.
Thank you for the great review Dave. When I first saw this meter and read about some of the features, I thought that this is really nice for the price. I even saw Agilent has one in the same line up with an OLED display. The biggest turn off with the OLED is the battery life, it is only about 30 - 60 hours! Crazy sexy display but not at a tenth of the battery life of the LCD models.
@Th3Su8 That's still a lot better than Agilent's U1250 series OLED model! Depends how much you use the meter. If it's only occasional use for 5 minutes here and there then even 30 hours life can last a long time. If it's your solid everyday use meter, then it of course sucks :->
As a reviewer of the best-in-world kit both companies and public respect you because you are brutally honest no matter who's stuff you are reviewing. When companies like Agilent, Fluke et al are obviously keen for you to promote their products above others especially when accompanied with the review freebie. I thought I saw a small crack appear under this pressure at the end of the vid where maybe you felt you had to make a decision in saying which MM you thought was the best.
I like those probes. I have brought some and a range of tip adaptors. Very versatile and high quality.
@williefleete If you wanted a 10k resistor, then ten 100k high precision resistors in parallel will produce a very accurate 10k reference. You can use the same principle to make what ever reference value you require. For every high precision resistor you add in parallel, you will drop the error a small amount. IE. if you want a 1k resistor, then 100 100k resistors will be more accurate than ten 10k ones. It generally also works out cheaper than getting 0.000x% accuracy ones...
Why you do not discharge capacitor before measuring on 2nd multimeter @ 23:33 ??
One thing I wondered about the 87V and this meter is why is Siemens used as the unit to measure really high resistances?
You'd think they'd use Siemens for low resistance (e.g. conductance, which you measure in Siemens :P). Seems back to front for me.
@Zadster There doesn't have to be an inherent offset, the equipment and process could be spot-on by accident or good design and control.
Dave, null the capacity of the probes! Switch to Rel mode! You've got like 0.030 nF, don't you see?
I bought this multimeter mostly because of this review! (Hint hint to Agilent)
@EEVblog Ah, okay. Thanks for responding! IIRC, you *did* show us in another vid that it is several meg-ohms per centimeter, but that may well have been the backing material and *not* the blue face. I'll go look it up, as I'm trying to find an affordable but durable solution for my own lab.
Either way, that really is a huge measurement error! I wonder if Agilent support people will help you out, with an explanation or a good firmware update (or a new meter :).
Could it be the internal temp gauge isn’t meant to read ambient room temp but meant to read internal meter temp to help get a more accurate and consistent device calibration?
Re. the temperature chamber test - resistance isn't a good range to use as it doesn't test the thing most likely to drift - the voltage reference!
Re. that 10u ceramic - if it was a crappy dielectric like Z5U, these have significant voltage dependence, so different readings on different meters is not surprising.
the resistance error is probably the PTC used to protect it and the resistance range is measuring that in addition to the DUT. BTW what would it take to make a resistance reference
Interestingly, at 1MHz point of the RMS reading was dead-on 0.707V . Quite impressive!
@SigEpBlue This comes up time and time again. The ant-static rubber matting is completely non-conductive and has no effect at all on the result.
Couldn't the conductivity of the ESD mat affect the measurement of small capacitor values?
no doubt!
Just an idea, is it possible that the capacitance test failed because of remaining voltage
from the other "proper" instrument? Need to discharge first?
That and the probes were too long
@aiden1015 I can't do that until it's finished processing, and that takes all night. I upload before I go to bed. Type U1272a into RUclips, I'm 3 of the first 4 results, not hard to find.
The cap measurements was probably effected by your anti static mat , use crocodile probes for it and hold it up.
Just FYI I bought that was tested 12-20-2011 according to the included documentation and the internal temperature and external thermocouple temperature is usually right on the spot or .1 difference.
When do you need the audible alert to be that fast and intermittent?
Can you image what it would cost Agilent to make a similar video, what with the Klieg lights and makeup artists?
There is plenty of room at the bottom left and right of the range switch to add a couple of stick-on rubber bumpers as spacers to guard against the face-plant situation.
The use of 7 segments to draw fake letters is kind of cheesy, but it's an absolutely amazing amount of features for USD$370. I might just have to buy one.
"Putting mains on that ohms range, it didn't like it for a while. Let's try it again!" Dave in a nut shell.
I used a Fluke 114 in school and the startup is very slow but is very annoying on startup too .
I recently got myself a £115 Tenma 72-7732 meter and fancied doing a similar kinda review/teardown to your ones. Any tips for a newbie?
@BrentBXR No review can please everyone, not possible. If you don't like something I talk about or focus on, just ignore it. There are other people who want to see those things.
Yes, I'm partial to the Fluke 87. Why? Because I've used it extensively for 20 years and it is a proven performer, it's an industry standard.
The continuity beeper being slow is a *major* possible make/break buying decision for many people.
If I missed anything in the review you wanted covered, let me know.
@toddrharrison Yep, eventually. Reviews are painful, they take so long to shoot. I have to streamline my review process in some way.
To 3:22 it does not happen if you connect the measuring probes as you usually do with a multimeter
Will it be possibile to do a 1272A & 1282A compare?
Aww that capacitance error and overload protection really piss me off :)
Dave please do that kind of test with Gossen Metrawatt Xtra vs Fluke 87V
Didn't have space to say it in the previous post, but thanks for this review, Dave! :)
How does that fast update work when the LCD is very cold? Can you slow it down if you want??
@AnnoyingVerification Yep, has to be something like that.
@aiden1015 That's probably because, as Dave has said before, he tends to set the video uploading and go to bed. He can't add an in-video link until it's finished, for which he also unsurprisingly has to be awake. I believe the twitter alert is automated.
Aw, come on, @aiden1015 was just making a 9GAG reference.
Still I agree Dave's not a scumbag :-)
I actually have to admit that the EEVblog is one of the, if not THE best electronics-videoblog thing known to mankind. :-)
@dynetrax Well, what is "conductive?" It obviously has to um, conduct any static to the ground lead and I don't know how it could do that without providing a path to ground. It's a matter of degree.
@the7thguest yes I saw it, but he pointed up like he was going to link it in the video, but didn't feel like it.
what would be a good relaiable non expensive starter multimeter ? thanks
@PcandTech Define non-expensive. I have $50 and $100 meter shootout videos.
23:53 HEY! You reversed the polarity when measuring that big cap!
Good catch.
beep being slow is a big issue for me.if am toning a circuit to find where the path goes and i have to wait a moment before it beeps as opposed to hearing a beep as soon as i probe the circuit its bothersome to me because if you move to quickly you can actually go past the other side of circuit without noticing because the beep took so long.i have meters that i have purchased and don't use just because the beep is too slow
maybe the bug in the firmware that you mentioned with the blue hold button and turning it on is not a bug but a function to test/check the display ? is that a possibility ?
Dave, could you test and express your opinion about the SANWA PC5000 (or PC5000a) multimeter? Thanks for your videos, they are excellent :-)
Can you get rid of the power-on and button beeps, without killing the continuity beeper too?
@williefleete In my case, it's an expensive resistor in a box.
Also great review Dave! Thanks. Very extensive and thorough.
@mvandeput No, it's not.
Is holding the calibration covered under the warranty
what are the two digits between mV and uV called?
This review shows how amazing Fluke's 87 series meters are. I would not take this thing over an 87. 87 is a shit brick house, every feature works as expected and well.
***** Resolution ~= Accuracy. Those are two different things for one. 20k count on 87V is plenty. In fact anything more is just a gimmick, as DMMs don't have a heated voltage ref to prevent drift. Nor would you want them to. You want your DMM to have a long battery life. 87 is a well designed tool, u1272a is more of a toy.
SirMo er....have you looked at the accuracy specs for both meters? Not resolution or counts, but accuracy. protip: the agilent has an order of magnitude better accuracy on almost all functions and ranges. In no range or mode does the fluke do better.
Jon Sands Those specs are nothing more than what both manufacturers guarantee. They don't tell you the actual accuracy over time. Based on decades of Fluke having a great reputation we know that Fluke adds in tons of margin in their published specs. And their meters are known to never drift past the spec even when abused.
Agilent can't cheat physics, for an accurate high resolution meter you need a heat compensated voltage ref. like those found on bench DMMs. Why do you think even 5 1/2 digit bench DMMs have temp compensated voltage references? This is why high resolution on hand held DMMs is mostly a gimmick.
@aiden1015 did you check the description?
@SigEpBlue you're absolutely right, I'm 22.
I absolutely love those probes
@The123jeffrey well, I sometimes "think" using Dave's voice when I'm working on a project, debugging something, stuff like that... If that makes sense. :P
Bought one! Loving it!
would it be possible to have a 1242b review ?
@envisionelec Yeah, I noticed that, nice coincidence!
Just because Fluke makes idiots proof multimeters, does not mean this one is bad. "i don't like is" really? who gives a crap. you treat it like an idiot, you don't deserve it. there's nothing correct in the way you are "testing" that multimeter. circus, that's it.
He’s doing deliberately stupid things to it because people sometimes accidentally do those same stupid things to their meters.
Agilent only gave me those fully covered CAT IV probes... I don't like them
Anyone know if the continuity buzzer is still slower that the backlight? Or did they fix it?
Thanks!
Does someone out there get a 2V reading in Zlow mode if nothing is connected? (U1272a and u1273ax) same issue
yes. 3V
@bcsupport I upvoted that comment in agreement.
@ft790 why so serious?
@jpelczar I'm about 2.5pF right now. Reeeeally dry hands, dry house, no shoes on. lol
Too fast update speed on a digital display is useless.
@aiden1015 Hes not a scumbag.
Awesome!
@mlnepmail Not a big fan of 9GAG I like looking at old content on Reddit. But I feel like my comment was taken a bit too seriously, I don't think Dave is a scumbag, I absolutely love the blogs and his power supply is helping a lot on a solar panel simulator jig I'm designing for ground testing of a satellite.
33:11 You broked it!!
Dave, ahahhahahaahah, I wonder if Agilent is going to keep send meters to you ? aahahahahahahahhahaah.
@bcsupport sigh you aren't familiar with internet memes huh? I'm envious of that.
@aiden1015 Time and place for everything. You're in a room with a bunch of 'old' electronics geeks (I say that lovingly), and I've no doubt that particular meme went WAY over most heads.
I'm gonna ASSume you're in your 20s, so it'd be akin to me making a joke referencing Nixon, and you not getting it. Don't worry, it's nothing personal; just an age & culture issue.
And please don't hold it against us. Many of us rarely have time to get out of the lab and into the real world for long. {8)
next one is 250! thanks
7:43 Daves replica of a fart ;P hahahaha
Fluke fanboy...
@silverstream314 xkcd no. 242 :)
Stick with fluke. These other companies are trying to prove nothing to compare them with others..all a joke. Save ur money for the best and you won't have problems down the road. Don't like keysight period...