I tend to follow the basic idea here with details. However, I love easter eggs. Being nosy and looking in places that seem to not have anything but the whole scene makes me really want to engage and see around the corner, in the window, what have you. I LOVE when someone takes the time to model for that. I love it so much that I do it as well. It might be that a building interior doesn't get lighting but if you grab your phone and shine your own light in, you just might see there are things going on in there. Incentives for the curious. It might be that around that corner of the building can't be seen from the immediate area but a glance back down the track from a couple of feet away does indeed, very stealthily and quietly reveal the scene that you knew was there.
I love the idea that some scenes just suck you in, and you want to explore them closer for more information. That kind of selective storytelling is very compelling.
all those people who skipped ahead??? well that's just too bad because they are the ones who really needed to hear it... although I needed it and enjoyed it completely. Thank you
Truly an outstanding discussion on the topic of the detail threshold! I was thoroughly engaged in the subject matter, and I hope you take us ‘beyond the workbench’ in the future!
Great discussion Dave! It’s often noted that when we see printed words, on the page are larger in signs and billboards our brain is often “reading” the shape quicker than the actual words. Same thing here I think.
And with a lot of words, most people recognize them from both the front and back, filling in details as they read over it there...often meaning that spelling can be skipped over in a lot of cases. I remember that from back in Jr High when the english teacher was out for a couple weeks due to emergency surgery, and the physics teacher subbed for the class...the english teacher was rather ticked with him when she got back about what he taught us there.
The best example I can provide. I have a message-in-a-bottle and Wilson (from Castaway) on my beaches. The bottle is barely recognizable, it's 3d printed and absolutely perfect to scale, but without prompting few ever see it. Wilson is about 3mm, hand carved, & being white with a bloodred handprint, it shows really well. But, that handprint is just a bunch of squiggly lines and nowhere near perfect like that overlooked bottle.
It was interesting and thought provoking, the one detail you forgot to add is perception of colour as part of the detail aspect and the desaturation that is required as we go to smaller scales. Love the bringing in of the different art movements as well. I love Easter Eggs and like Bob referenced some pop out and others are not notice until several viewings, that is how I see the different levels of detailing Keep going on you modelling, always fun to follow along
Ad young designer and modeller I really had to thank you Dave, for all of those masterclass videos, I wish I had you as professor back in university. I usually never comment on social media, but I’ve learned a lot more from you than in 10/15 years of scale modelling Forums and magazines. I’m from Italy and I’ve never heard anyone talk about this topics, since here 90% of the railroad modellers are too busy fighting each other about which numberplate had a loco in 1920 (usually the model in question sucks), and the rest of them are ‘gatekeepers’, so I really do not take for granted your huge work in this channel (useful not only for modelling but also for my job). Lastly, I apreciate a lot your speaking and storytelling skills which make your videos easily understandable also for someone who talks a foreign language ✌🏼
Perspective can mean a couple of things. When I first got into real model trains, not a bunch of track on plywood. I met and joined my first club. I wanted to impressive them so a made a Pondarosa Pine. I used a dried "Lords Candle" (Yucca). Covered in what may have been a full bag of Woodland Scenic green foam. I thought it look cool, club members (being polite) said it looked great. For maybe an O or G scale. Not HO. Even if it was the correct height, the focal point was the trains, and my tree was, shall we say To Big. Also, something I learned from you and others, further away, means smaller. Again, Perspective.
Early in my fabricating career I worked in the sign business. I was told at the time that the sign has a tenth of a second to make an impression. If it is a good impression the viewer might linger a bit longer. That bit of information has informed my model building ever since. As you said, it is a fine line and when you think you are done look again. Maybe it needs more or be willing to take some away.
Since modeling an SRRL look-alike for 45 years, this WBT discussion reminds me a lot of Dave Frary and Bob Hayden's takes on their H0n30 Carrabasset and Dead River, as well as the 0n30 ideas from the Narrow Gauge Gazette at that time. Unfortunately, as a member of my country's narrow gauge model guild for the same time, I fight the brass maffia, the guys soldering plate brass locos in the same way as Tenshodo did (does?), where they build individual H0 narrow and standard gauge models of individual locos and wagons with correct number of rivets. Yes, you can see the rivets with a magnifying glass on the table, but not out at the line, but unfortunatly we (a couple) working according to Frary and Hayden often get shunned, which made me put my stuff away 3-4 times. The right level of detail is best for the balance of the mind ;-)
Some great points here Dave, especially how "just good enough" applies to the "visual" arts. There's a complicated simplicity here, one which ove been struggling with in my own story telling, and the points you've shared might just broaden my approach, thanks!!
Great discussion! In my work as a designer artist and photographer, i have learned that perception is not a constant. There is no single unvarying point of view in reality or experience. Your brain can consciously or subconsciously alter your perception to create a totally new experience. This allows for things like forced perspective, implied detail, a sense of age or nostalgia, patterns of wear and erosion, like an experimental photowalks focusing on a certain subject or quality of light - allowing one to be in the moment, or travel through space and time. One thing great about model railroads is that the viewer constantly controls and changes their perspective. A scene can draw them in to see appropriate details, a landscape can allow the to pull back and rest in the overall composition. The viewer crafts their own experience. Unlike a set scale, detail is independent of the actual object being modeled. In a drawing, one would not render every brick in a wall. There are points of interest that make artistic sense where detail enriches the composition. A scale enforced rule that says, no modeling if the actual object is less than 2” does not make sense, because a nail head can be only 1/16”, yet is clearly apparent to the viewer, and adds subtle visual clues as to materials, wear, or original construction methods. Color is probably underutilized as a detail tool in modeling, although your weathering and atmospheric perspective backgrounds exploit that well. Occasional hot spots of saturation and contrasting color can add detail with absolutely nothing actually being modeled. In my historical architectural work, one thing became very clear: precision, uniformity, and perfection can destroy any artistic or visual richness of a scene. The random exception or errant spark of light off a misaligned surface adds more richness than any micro rendered detail.
As someone who dabbles in everything from Nn3 to 2.5" live steam, this was a great discussion! it sums up many scattered thoughts I've had over the years on where to draw the line. I've been designing my own live steam locomotive in 2.5" scale and I often find myself trying to model both the appearance and functionality of the prototype. This is often not practical, and I have to remind myself that many times it's better to sacrifice appearance for functionality.
In garden railway practice we've used this philosophy for years, the 10 foot rule. If it looks good from 10 ft. you are good. I enjoyed your thoughts, so at one point it did make my brain hurt. :^)
Those distance rules apply particularly in N scale! Unless my eyes are right at the rails it's like viewing the one to one scene from 100 ft. I doubt I'll be noticing rivets and builders' plaques from that distance!
Brilliant way to describe the topic. I'd have never thought of it as looking from different viewing heights and distances. As a photographer I'm used to seeing a picture or scene, not necessarily all in focus or the same brightness, tones, saturation etc
Great Video!!!! I am not a flat Earther, however I do believe that we do not know "the Truth" about our world and how we got here. We only know what we see and we all see it differently! I love all your videos!
An interesting scale detail level anomaly in model car building is that there's an expectation that 1/43rd scale models will have photoetched and turned aluminum and brass parts, highly refined resin bodies, etc., but larger, 1/32nd scale models are expected to be toylike, early injection molded kits (edit: slot cars,) and later snap kits. Adding a couple of extra details to a 1/32nd scale kit makes it stand out like crazy on a show table, while the $300 1/43 build next to it may be ignored by many builders.
As a fine art photographer, I found this discussion very interesting. It explains why an over sharpened photograph is so off putting. I love following all your episodes.
Thanks for the food for thought. I'm focused more on what I like and what will please me than having an audience. I do like to share what I've done but I am doing this for me.
Dave, I always enjoy your "thoughtful" videos... The beauty of the train hobby is we can enjoy post-war Toy Train all the way up to Detailed Diorama. I say enjoy the journey and run the trains. Your modeling level of detail is very high and gives us all something to strive for. I still haven't bought any nut and bolt castings, however, I did use some pins for door knobs. Thanks for the inspiration!
"but if you do . . .I'd like to see it". 😁 An excellent refresher on Artistic expression and perception. It was helpful in using the Coach Car to re-inforce scale vs the amount/type of detail needed when building/scratch building models. Excellent presentation Mr. Dave. Personally I like your style in the Thunder Mesa world. Your Loco's and rolling stock have personality that fit the theme very well. Theme, Era/Time and purpose for being. Even tho I'm looking to create an operational logging layout with tall trees and required structures, your methods of having fun with it all is inspiring. Thank you.
This was a very timely video for me, Dave, as I'm currently finishing a structure build and am trying to decide the level of detail to add to the basic kit. One point I'd like to add is that my view of details has changed somewhat since I built a small HO diorama. Taking low level and close-up photos shifts the "good enough" boundary line and even splits it. On the one hand, I want my rolling stock, as the main subjects of my photos, to be more detailed than required by normal layout viewing distances. But at the same time I add less detail to the freight house backdrop to avoid distraction from the main subjects. Cheers from Wisconsin!
Dave:I thought you might want to know, I have not been notified of your postings for the last month. I realized I had not seen anything from you for some time and searched for your channel to find out I had not been notified of your last four videos. I am subscribed for "All" postings.
It's a shame really, RUclips has made it difficult to keep up with the small, content rich, thought provoking channels that we look forward to the most, and that makes it hard for channels with unique, niche appeal to find the audience they deserve. In the beginning of RUclips, it was channels like this that made the platform great and helped it grow. I'm so glad that Mr. Meek has a story telling impulse to keep this channel going because I cannot imagine that it is a money maker in any substantial sense.
Hi Dave! Wow, I feel like I’m back in art school. Or is it film school? What a great jumping off point for further discussion. I’ve always been something of a detail junkie. I guess that’s why I like 1/8 scale automobile models over the smaller scales. Finally moving my way all the way up to Fn3 model railroading. It’s either that or just failing eyesight I’m not sure. Which I suppose gets us back to subject of pattern recognition and being able to spot patterns when your eyeballs are going out on ya! I digress Here’s another fun thing to take into account, something I’ve wasted a good deal of mental energy meditating on. What is the effect of eye-line? Does a model need to be more detailed when the placement of the model is closer to the viewers line in terms of vertical position? And now we can wander off into the swamp land of forced perspective. But it seems to me that when a model is set directly in front of someone’s eyes in terms of vertical position, it has to be much more detailed than if it is below or above that point. Yes, I’ve wandered off into the swamp and should probably keep my mouth shut! But it is an interesting subject. And it certainly holds true when painting a scene. Those things in a painted scene which appeared to be at the viewers eye line require more detail than items that appear to be higher or below that point. And here’s something else that’s fun. If you’ve moved into some area where less detail is expected something in the distance for example, pushing the level of detail up even slightly will make that thing appear to be much more detailed than it actually is. You’ve exceeded theviewers expectations. OK now to follow my earlier advice and just shut up! But it’s a fascinating subject, isn’t it?
Just a quickie. Failing eyesight driving you to larger scales doesn;t really work if you model in 0 gauge and use 3 link couplings! Regards, Paul, in Cornwall. U.K.
@@ToyManTelevision I got a lot of my accessories off eBay at really cheap prices over the years, and it's so easy to create a scene just by placing a few model people together, (having a conversation), very little else may need to be added if done correctly. Maybe a horse or dog in the scene can enhance it. For example, I have a 1;43 scale cat enjoying the good weather sat on the top of a corrigated metal shed. The scene says it all.
Love the point that an unexpected detail in a scene can Imply a (nonexistent or inconsistent) higher level of richness or complexity overall. Get that viewer’s subconscious activated!
Great perspective (pun intended) Dave! Too much detail that won't readily be noticed is not only time consuming to produce but not worth the money and effort. Thank you again and continued success with the new old layout!
Great job in explaining this subject. I think it is important to know your audience and how your model is going to be seen and perceived. I set up a one day Breakfast with Santa small display at my fire company The amount of details I put out and where the area is being viewed from allows me to use the less is more and let people fill in the blanks. However when going to a train show expectations are higher so the details have to be more precise.
Terrific video, one of my pet hates is model railways that are over detailed. I liken them to a jam sandwich that has too much jam and not enough bread.
Great topic Dave, another element is how we scale down colour, e.g. using a very dark grey instead of pure black can look more realistic in smaller scales because we’re often tempted to paint to the prototype without considering the scale/effective viewing distance
Exactly why I vowed any more large scale modeling would be pure fantasy...this topic is a hugely under-discussed and very relevant concept in modeling. 👽🖖
“Flat-Earthers” LOL Dave! I guess they would be attracted to model railroading by the flat expanse of 4x8 sheets of plywood set on perfectly level bench work…..😂
Thanks for encapsulating these ideas so well. I think most of us have some instinctive understanding of the detail threshold, but you offer a useful way to quantify it. I apply something similar that I call the "seems too fiddly" threshold, but mine is rooted in laziness.
Thank you for your wisdom and perspective Dave. I’m probably not the sharpest bulb but you put that in a way that I feel I could grasp the concept. Number one thing when it comes to level detail on my RR ? Budget! I add the details i can afford and if the look out of place they get repurposed elsewhere.
Thanks for a great video! What can get in the way of focusing on the human-sized viewer is the frequent exposure to extreme close-up photographs, which tends to focus on very minute details. I myself love such pictures a lot and am impressed with the respective model makers. Often, these photographs are taken from close to street-level perspective, so they are very diffferent in angle and resolution from what the human-sized viewer would perceive when viewing the model in real life. The thought I take from this video for myself is: I need to be clearer on which of the two I really want to focus with a given project.
Close up photography is something I probably should have mentioned here. It all depends on the modeler's goals. If you want your models to look great in closeup photos, that's a closer detail threshold than the naked eye.
I must admit that I love detail. You see so many layouts at exhibitions with no vehicles in the train yard, and no model people around either except for, maybe, the platform waiting for a train and then they are all looking toward the track where there is very little to see. I look at real stations for inspiration. Heritage ones if I have the option, and preferably when an historical time is being depicted. My model set up is in 0 scale, standard gauge, 1930s time period, U.K prototype. To make my layout come alive, I turn model people to each other and the human brain sees them having a conversation or argument etc. The same with goods yard details there will be a crane with a load left hanging whilst a break for the operator is taken and one can see him sitting reading the newspaper. This all goes to make the scene come alive and it works too. I have a porter who has just dropped a passengers suitcase and it has burst open revealing all the clothes inside. There is the squire on horse-back with his shotgun across his lap as he has just detained a poacher and 2 police officers have turned up to keep the peace. While all this is happening, a railway worker is cleaning the station windows with his bucket of water at his feet, etc. All this works for me and I hope it does for others too. You, Dave have certainly got the scenic 'movement' right. I can only try to do similar. Sorry thses comments have dragged on some. Regards, Paul, in Cornwall. U.K.
While I agree with your thoughts on pattern recognition and etc., I can still see that A/C unit in the wall. LOL Sorry, I couldn't resist. Keep Up the Awesome Work
Definitely a huge helping of food for thought, and perhaps something i have considered with involvement and discussion in past model railroad clubs. The larger the scale is, the more it becomes relevant to the visitor, either at a home layout or a club layout. Many details are only going to be seen, or even known by a very small amount of people. Still chewing on the information presented in the video.
I wonder if the scale is really as crucial to level of detail as one would think. At some level, it still comes down to composition, and detail becoming distracting to the overall effect.
Dear Sir, What an excellent explanation of pareidolia and apophenia! Just two of the numerous cognitive biases we all suffer from... Well, some more than others, it seems. Cheers from Brazil!
The detail threshold works fine when viewed in-person, but in the mid-2020s many of us want to share our modeling online or in magazines. This is where the detail threshold meets the microscopic eye of the camera lens and we panic if we cannot read the print on the 19 Orders in our T-scale (1:450) engineer's hand. 🤣
Always love the content here even though I model N-Scale. I am still learning how to help perceive details that I can't replicate due to the small size. Great little detour. Sounds like you listen to Neil Degrasse Tyson's Start Talk... He has told similar evolution and perception stories.
Good video with good points. Only the thing of video and photo graphs make it different because a good soom in camera brings you closer and those pictures are the ones shown on social media and in magazines... This might be a topic that could be added to this one. As in showing how you like to show your work in comparison with what people see during an open studio day...
This video was very informative, helpful and interesting I certainly hope that you keep making more of this type of videos in the near future because I learn so much from them.
I watched this one when it came out but was in the middle of the audio book version of _The Selfish Gene_ by Richard Dawkins at the time. Shortly after the 5:00 minute mark, I had to stop the video and finish the book before I could come back to comment. Never would have thought that the evolutionary advantage of assuming that the wind in the grass is actually a lion springs from the same genetic impulse that allows me to easily imagine peeking through the windows of one of your structures and mentally seeing the family inside that log cabin, the telegraph operator stepped away from his station to use the privy. Equally easy to imagine that it was not just serendipity that had me reading Dawkins and thinking about memetics at the same time as this video was posted. But to come to the realization that I love building models because I am genetically adapted to avoid getting eaten by lions is a great reason to get lost in model making and the imagining that goes with it. And clearly the model making impulse indicates that we all, as model railroaders are better adapted to survive than non-modelers.
Not a heliographic theory believer, but you did not offend me. Also not an evolution theory believer, but you didn’t offend me with that either. I’m very difficult to offend anyway, but that aside. We only understand 10% of the brain in a scientific way, but the part of perception and completing images is clear for us to experience. So over the outcome I’m all with you in this story, eventhough I have a completely different input. #justsayin Nice video and perspective! 👊 -1- Sebas
Excellent discussion. A lot of food for thought there. As I am planning and building a new layout (HO scale), the scenes that interest me most are planned to be placed in the foreground, with, as you pointed out, less detailed scenes further away from the viewer. As a side note, this brought to mind a video where you alluded to the idea some folks have that Malcolm Furlow was not actually a model railroader. I would say that Furlow's earlier work (Denver & Rio Chama Western, Model railroader's San Juan Central project) fit squarely into most people's definition of model railroading. His later stuff? I would regard it as impressionism, which I believe still has a valid place in the hobby, although some people might find it somewhat disturbing (edgy, perhaps?) Just my 2 cents.
This reminds me of a story involving comic book creation. A pro told an amateur that he should study anatomy on how the body is formed together. He pointed out how many newbies will draw their superhero but it will unreal. Even though it is sci-fi, there has to be some realistic base
Great presentation as always. I just found one thing that drove me nuts, Please either put a battery in your clock or plug it in. LOL I have learned so much from watching your art. I am a person that has to have a ruler to draw a stick man and make it look like a stick man. Thank you for all the GREAT video content.
Professor Dave, great class today! I learned a lot. However, I think the skull on the shelf must have thought it was the wind when actually it was a lion and that’s all that’s left of the poor guy. 😂 Thanks for the great video. Take care!
That's a *great* presentation; thanks, Dave! I'd like to throw in another factor to the Detail Threshold: Budget. Whether it's time or money or both, that's going to affect what you can do. I think of this in the context of theme park design: How much detail can you add that will make things believable without giving the bean counters fits? Perhaps use a lot of simple details, or one big detail that convinces the viewer. I was interested in the analysis of AI art. It looks "wrong" to me and now I have a better understanding of why -- extra fingers not withstanding.
One of the other philosophies I've found useful is aiming at a consistent level of detail so nothing stands out as too good or not enough. I think this might have originated with Allen Mclelland. That said, subtly different levels can help too - more detailed locos, boxcars that pass muster as a fleet, a more broadbrush approach to buildings. At least for a frustrated locomotive collector like me.
Fantastic. So much information in a pithy, digestible summary. (Though it's always worth noting that Jackson Pollock's success was literally orchestrated by a cold war CIA operation!)
That was a good video. After watching it I got to thinking about how many scale feet our eyes are from models. Standing back a couple of feet from the kitchen counter ( I don’t have a layout right now) , about where I thought I would often view layouts from I measured from my eyes to the edge of the counter. It was three feet. So if I multiply that by the scale I’m looking at that would give me the approximate distance I would be from a full sized train. So this is what I came up with. 1/24 th, 72 feet. 1/32- 96 ft . O- 144 ft, S - 192 ft, HO -261 feet, N - 480 ft, and Z- 660 ft. So look at a full sized train from that distance to see what details are the most visible. And no I’m not saying that one should not put more detail, but looking at what details are the most visible.
I almost went the route of ON30 but I acquired my cousin's Lionel 027 train set just like I had when I was 3 yrs. old so I went the Lionel route, a little more toyish. I already have one expensive hobby and that is HO scale. Since I model the turn of the 19th century I have to just about build all my rolling stock from kits or scratch build or even kit bash some models. Most of the 19th century rolling stock is based on the truss rod flatcar and most of my rolling stock has truss rods with no grab irons. No brake detail 'cause it hadn't been invented yet. To be correct I'd have to use link & pin couplers but I prefer the ease & look of Kadee couplers. My rule of detail is if it is believable then I've done my job. I don't like the 3 foot rule. Has to be believable. Cheers from eastern TN
Great video! I think of N scale as impressionistic. It's too small for lots of fine detail but you can suggest that detail, give an impression that the detail is there. As you said, the mind fills in the blanks. But when you want a clever gag or something to suggest a deeper story, sometimes the scale is too small to reasonably accomplish that, if you can at all. If someone can tell me how to build working, custom neon in 1:160, I'd love to hear how.
Dave this is a conversation I have with all types of modelers but they often don’t get it. Those of us who are trained artists have learned to be aware of our own perception and behavior so we are consciously aware of what we see and in the order we pick up details. Most of the time average modelers are not trained so the mash as much detail in as they can and it’s often much to large, resulting in the clutter you are talking about. If i bring that up the other person usually get offended.
Well done, and with that said,,,,writing and doing all that dialogue, they're has to be a blooper reel in some of this, models coming undone, vocal flubs, etc. Would love to see it if you haven't already and I missed it. Us 'round earthers' always enjoy a good laugh. It releases endorphins and that helps with....well nevermind, that's another video. Bravo to you!
There is another question to be asked about how much detail is required? Do you detail a locomotives to the ninth degree only to have that detail break off when handled? Or when I am standing back 3 of 4 feet from a structure model, can I tell the difference between a highly detailed stick built kit over a highly detailed printed paper structure? That is part of the perspective too.
I once had an interesting conversation with a Jehova's witness minister. We were talking broadly and then I said, "Don;t think that you lot (JW), have got it absolutely correct. No religion on this planey has. For if they did have it correct, then they would BE God. God, as an impression, is a combination of all religions. That surprised him!! Regards, Paul, in Cornwall. U.K.
The larger scale G trains seem to have fewer fine details than say OO/HO models and like you say it's all a matter of perception. Film and theme park sets don't include all of the details as the viewer adds details in their mind.
Hey Dave... Quick question. I purchased some super tree material and created some really convincing trees... I ventured to try other natural materials with surprisingly fantastic results as well... the problem I have, is now that my beautiful scenery has aged a year, they've turned brittle (i mean, REALLY BRITTLE!!! Do you have experience with "preserving" natural vegetation? Isn't there a coating or product I can use that extends the materials flexibility? Any advice is greatly appreciated 😊
You need to soak Super Trees and other natural materials in diluted PVA (white glue or matte medium). When dry, they will be more flexible and less brittle.
@ThunderMesaStudio thank you... I thought there was a product like glycerine... I could be way off on that. Makes sense though. My budget doesn't support too much trial & error... mostly error 😁. I thought I'd get advice from an advanced dealer such as yourself before proceeding. Thank you.
Some modelers like George Sellios might disagree. His layout is detailed as if everything is a foreground model even though he is in HO. While he does use some forced perspective and smaller structures in the background, his overall philosophy seems to be detail everything as much as possible but he seems to find the right stopping point so it is not overdone. That being said, I liked your idea that scale can dictate the level of detail required for the human eye to perceive just enough.
I have so many buildings I want to try and put together, but I am so scared of screwing them up that I don't even touch them.... how can I snap myself out of this?
Hi Dave, I came across a model railway diorama recently with forced perspective. It illustrates so well the points you have made. The closer the object is to the foreground, the bigger it is modelled and the greater the detail. The further the objects are away, the smaller as less detailed they are. In this scene it really works admirably - I hope you get round to viewing it as it's only 6 minutes long. ruclips.net/video/ZMW4Yz-fXcA/видео.html
Building models is our interpretation of reality. If you want to make a realistic model of a specific building, locomotive or freight car, step back 87’ (HO scale) from the real thing and model what you see. Too many modelers stand next to the real thing to build a 1/87th scale replica/interpretation of it. You can’t see the forest through the trees. I model O scale. I’ve seen some not so detailed models that look amazingly realistic because of their excellent paint job and weathering. They are believable.
The song Rocky Mountain High by John Denver accurately summed up your new age sermon up to the 8 minute mark. Makes me wonder how many peyote buttons you consumed?
There was nothing New Age about the discussion. Nothing was attributed to spirits, animal deities, or aliens. It was all basic art school and biology 101. Maybe you should have skipped ahead.
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So now you're a philosophy channel? Interesting.
This is an art class. Philosophy is down the hall.
I tend to follow the basic idea here with details. However, I love easter eggs. Being nosy and looking in places that seem to not have anything but the whole scene makes me really want to engage and see around the corner, in the window, what have you. I LOVE when someone takes the time to model for that. I love it so much that I do it as well. It might be that a building interior doesn't get lighting but if you grab your phone and shine your own light in, you just might see there are things going on in there. Incentives for the curious. It might be that around that corner of the building can't be seen from the immediate area but a glance back down the track from a couple of feet away does indeed, very stealthily and quietly reveal the scene that you knew was there.
I love the idea that some scenes just suck you in, and you want to explore them closer for more information.
That kind of selective storytelling is very compelling.
all those people who skipped ahead??? well that's just too bad because they are the ones who really needed to hear it... although I needed it and enjoyed it completely. Thank you
Great discussion and a concept many model railroaders forget about. I like the Impressionist painting comparison! A great example for sure
Truly an outstanding discussion on the topic of the detail threshold! I was thoroughly engaged in the subject matter, and I hope you take us ‘beyond the workbench’ in the future!
Great discussion Dave! It’s often noted that when we see printed words, on the page are larger in signs and billboards our brain is often “reading” the shape quicker than the actual words. Same thing here I think.
And with a lot of words, most people recognize them from both the front and back, filling in details as they read over it there...often meaning that spelling can be skipped over in a lot of cases.
I remember that from back in Jr High when the english teacher was out for a couple weeks due to emergency surgery, and the physics teacher subbed for the class...the english teacher was rather ticked with him when she got back about what he taught us there.
Good point
The best example I can provide. I have a message-in-a-bottle and Wilson (from Castaway) on my beaches. The bottle is barely recognizable, it's 3d printed and absolutely perfect to scale, but without prompting few ever see it. Wilson is about 3mm, hand carved, & being white with a bloodred handprint, it shows really well. But, that handprint is just a bunch of squiggly lines and nowhere near perfect like that overlooked bottle.
It was interesting and thought provoking, the one detail you forgot to add is perception of colour as part of the detail aspect and the desaturation that is required as we go to smaller scales. Love the bringing in of the different art movements as well.
I love Easter Eggs and like Bob referenced some pop out and others are not notice until several viewings, that is how I see the different levels of detailing
Keep going on you modelling, always fun to follow along
Color is a great topic and I'll probably do a future video on that.
Ad young designer and modeller I really had to thank you Dave, for all of those masterclass videos, I wish I had you as professor back in university. I usually never comment on social media, but I’ve learned a lot more from you than in 10/15 years of scale modelling Forums and magazines. I’m from Italy and I’ve never heard anyone talk about this topics, since here 90% of the railroad modellers are too busy fighting each other about which numberplate had a loco in 1920 (usually the model in question sucks), and the rest of them are ‘gatekeepers’, so I really do not take for granted your huge work in this channel (useful not only for modelling but also for my job). Lastly, I apreciate a lot your speaking and storytelling skills which make your videos easily understandable also for someone who talks a foreign language ✌🏼
Thank you very much. I'm so glad you find the videos useful.
Perspective can mean a couple of things. When I first got into real model trains, not a bunch of track on plywood. I met and joined my first club. I wanted to impressive them so a made a Pondarosa Pine. I used a dried "Lords Candle" (Yucca). Covered in what may have been a full bag of Woodland Scenic green foam. I thought it look cool, club members (being polite) said it looked great. For maybe an O or G scale. Not HO. Even if it was the correct height, the focal point was the trains, and my tree was, shall we say To Big. Also, something I learned from you and others, further away, means smaller. Again, Perspective.
Early in my fabricating career I worked in the sign business. I was told at the time that the sign has a tenth of a second to make an impression. If it is a good impression the viewer might linger a bit longer. That bit of information has informed my model building ever since. As you said, it is a fine line and when you think you are done look again. Maybe it needs more or be willing to take some away.
Some of the best advice I ever got as a graphic artist was "say less, bigger." Same idea applies.
Since modeling an SRRL look-alike for 45 years, this WBT discussion reminds me a lot of Dave Frary and Bob Hayden's takes on their H0n30 Carrabasset and Dead River, as well as the 0n30 ideas from the Narrow Gauge Gazette at that time. Unfortunately, as a member of my country's narrow gauge model guild for the same time, I fight the brass maffia, the guys soldering plate brass locos in the same way as Tenshodo did (does?), where they build individual H0 narrow and standard gauge models of individual locos and wagons with correct number of rivets. Yes, you can see the rivets with a magnifying glass on the table, but not out at the line, but unfortunatly we (a couple) working according to Frary and Hayden often get shunned, which made me put my stuff away 3-4 times. The right level of detail is best for the balance of the mind ;-)
Some great points here Dave, especially how "just good enough" applies to the "visual" arts. There's a complicated simplicity here, one which ove been struggling with in my own story telling, and the points you've shared might just broaden my approach, thanks!!
Great discussion!
In my work as a designer artist and photographer, i have learned that perception is not a constant. There is no single unvarying point of view in reality or experience. Your brain can consciously or subconsciously alter your perception to create a totally new experience.
This allows for things like forced perspective, implied detail, a sense of age or nostalgia, patterns of wear and erosion, like an experimental photowalks focusing on a certain subject or quality of light - allowing one to be in the moment, or travel through space and time.
One thing great about model railroads is that the viewer constantly controls and changes their perspective. A scene can draw them in to see appropriate details, a landscape can allow the to pull back and rest in the overall composition. The viewer crafts their own experience.
Unlike a set scale, detail is independent of the actual object being modeled. In a drawing, one would not render every brick in a wall. There are points of interest that make artistic sense where detail enriches the composition.
A scale enforced rule that says, no modeling if the actual object is less than 2” does not make sense, because a nail head can be only 1/16”, yet is clearly apparent to the viewer, and adds subtle visual clues as to materials, wear, or original construction methods.
Color is probably underutilized as a detail tool in modeling, although your weathering and atmospheric perspective backgrounds exploit that well. Occasional hot spots of saturation and contrasting color can add detail with absolutely nothing actually being modeled.
In my historical architectural work, one thing became very clear: precision, uniformity, and perfection can destroy any artistic or visual richness of a scene. The random exception or errant spark of light off a misaligned surface adds more richness than any micro rendered detail.
As someone who dabbles in everything from Nn3 to 2.5" live steam, this was a great discussion! it sums up many scattered thoughts I've had over the years on where to draw the line.
I've been designing my own live steam locomotive in 2.5" scale and I often find myself trying to model both the appearance and functionality of the prototype. This is often not practical, and I have to remind myself that many times it's better to sacrifice appearance for functionality.
Compromise is a necessity, the trick is knowing where to do it.
In garden railway practice we've used this philosophy for years, the 10 foot rule. If it looks good from 10 ft. you are good. I enjoyed your thoughts, so at one point it did make my brain hurt. :^)
That's right! I've also heard HO guys mention a 3ft. rule. Same concept, obviously.
Those distance rules apply particularly in N scale! Unless my eyes are right at the rails it's like viewing the one to one scene from 100 ft. I doubt I'll be noticing rivets and builders' plaques from that distance!
Brilliant way to describe the topic. I'd have never thought of it as looking from different viewing heights and distances.
As a photographer I'm used to seeing a picture or scene, not necessarily all in focus or the same brightness, tones, saturation etc
Great Video!!!! I am not a flat Earther, however I do believe that we do not know "the Truth" about our world and how we got here. We only know what we see and we all see it differently! I love all your videos!
Good stuff to think about, Dave. I enjoy hearing about your modeling philosophy. Thanks for sharing it.
An interesting scale detail level anomaly in model car building is that there's an expectation that 1/43rd scale models will have photoetched and turned aluminum and brass parts, highly refined resin bodies, etc., but larger, 1/32nd scale models are expected to be toylike, early injection molded kits (edit: slot cars,) and later snap kits. Adding a couple of extra details to a 1/32nd scale kit makes it stand out like crazy on a show table, while the $300 1/43 build next to it may be ignored by many builders.
As a fine art photographer, I found this discussion very interesting. It explains why an over sharpened photograph is so off putting. I love following all your episodes.
Thank you
Thanks for the food for thought. I'm focused more on what I like and what will please me than having an audience. I do like to share what I've done but I am doing this for me.
Dave, I always enjoy your "thoughtful" videos... The beauty of the train hobby is we can enjoy post-war Toy Train all the way up to Detailed Diorama. I say enjoy the journey and run the trains. Your modeling level of detail is very high and gives us all something to strive for. I still haven't bought any nut and bolt castings, however, I did use some pins for door knobs. Thanks for the inspiration!
"but if you do . . .I'd like to see it". 😁 An excellent refresher on Artistic expression and perception. It was helpful in using the Coach Car to re-inforce scale vs the amount/type of detail needed when building/scratch building models. Excellent presentation Mr. Dave. Personally I like your style in the Thunder Mesa world. Your Loco's and rolling stock have personality that fit the theme very well. Theme, Era/Time and purpose for being. Even tho I'm looking to create an operational logging layout with tall trees and required structures, your methods of having fun with it all is inspiring. Thank you.
This was a very timely video for me, Dave, as I'm currently finishing a structure build and am trying to decide the level of detail to add to the basic kit. One point I'd like to add is that my view of details has changed somewhat since I built a small HO diorama. Taking low level and close-up photos shifts the "good enough" boundary line and even splits it. On the one hand, I want my rolling stock, as the main subjects of my photos, to be more detailed than required by normal layout viewing distances. But at the same time I add less detail to the freight house backdrop to avoid distraction from the main subjects. Cheers from Wisconsin!
Yes, I should have included a discussion on close up photography. Next time!
Dave:I thought you might want to know, I have not been notified of your postings for the last month. I realized I had not seen anything from you for some time and searched for your channel to find out I had not been notified of your last four videos. I am subscribed for "All" postings.
It's a shame really, RUclips has made it difficult to keep up with the small, content rich, thought provoking channels that we look forward to the most, and that makes it hard for channels with unique, niche appeal to find the audience they deserve. In the beginning of RUclips, it was channels like this that made the platform great and helped it grow. I'm so glad that Mr. Meek has a story telling impulse to keep this channel going because I cannot imagine that it is a money maker in any substantial sense.
Hi Dave! Wow, I feel like I’m back in art school. Or is it film school? What a great jumping off point for further discussion. I’ve always been something of a detail junkie. I guess that’s why I like 1/8 scale automobile models over the smaller scales. Finally moving my way all the way up to Fn3 model railroading. It’s either that or just failing eyesight I’m not sure. Which I suppose gets us back to subject of pattern recognition and being able to spot patterns when your eyeballs are going out on ya!
I digress
Here’s another fun thing to take into account, something I’ve wasted a good deal of mental energy meditating on. What is the effect of eye-line? Does a model need to be more detailed when the placement of the model is closer to the viewers line in terms of vertical position? And now we can wander off into the swamp land of forced perspective. But it seems to me that when a model is set directly in front of someone’s eyes in terms of vertical position, it has to be much more detailed than if it is below or above that point.
Yes, I’ve wandered off into the swamp and should probably keep my mouth shut! But it is an interesting subject. And it certainly holds true when painting a scene. Those things in a painted scene which appeared to be at the viewers eye line require more detail than items that appear to be higher or below that point.
And here’s something else that’s fun. If you’ve moved into some area where less detail is expected something in the distance for example, pushing the level of detail up even slightly will make that thing appear to be much more detailed than it actually is. You’ve exceeded theviewers expectations.
OK now to follow my earlier advice and just shut up! But it’s a fascinating subject, isn’t it?
Just a quickie. Failing eyesight driving you to larger scales doesn;t really work if you model in 0 gauge and use 3 link couplings!
Regards, Paul, in Cornwall. U.K.
@@PaulWilliams-h1y yup. Bigger and bigger. More and more details. Sigh. 😌
@@ToyManTelevision I got a lot of my accessories off eBay at really cheap prices over the years, and it's so easy to create a scene just by placing a few model people together, (having a conversation), very little else may need to be added if done correctly. Maybe a horse or dog in the scene can enhance it. For example, I have a 1;43 scale cat enjoying the good weather sat on the top of a corrigated metal shed. The scene says it all.
Great points, Dale. Eye line is an excellent topic for a future video!
Love the point that an unexpected detail in a scene can Imply a (nonexistent or inconsistent) higher level of richness or complexity overall. Get that viewer’s subconscious activated!
Great perspective (pun intended) Dave! Too much detail that won't readily be noticed is not only time consuming to produce but not worth the money and effort. Thank you again and continued success with the new old layout!
What a WONDERFUL Just-So story! What imagination!
Great job in explaining this subject. I think it is important to know your audience and how your model is going to be seen and perceived. I set up a one day Breakfast with Santa small display at my fire company The amount of details I put out and where the area is being viewed from allows me to use the less is more and let people fill in the blanks. However when going to a train show expectations are higher so the details have to be more precise.
Great discussion Dave, someone introduced me to the three feet rule for HO scale. Cheers Peter from downunder.
Always thought a diorama of Radiator Springs from cars would be really neat. Especially with all the neon lights.
Terrific video, one of my pet hates is model railways that are over detailed. I liken them to a jam sandwich that has too much jam and not enough bread.
Too much jam?!!!
Love model railroad theory! Thanks for the crash course!!
Great topic Dave, another element is how we scale down colour, e.g. using a very dark grey instead of pure black can look more realistic in smaller scales because we’re often tempted to paint to the prototype without considering the scale/effective viewing distance
Just starting N scale layout and I believe this lesson will help alot in this build. Thanks Dave
GOD BLESS 🚂💕🚂💕🚂💕🚂💕
Excellent information Dave. Thanks.
Exactly why I vowed any more large scale modeling would be pure fantasy...this topic is a hugely under-discussed and very relevant concept in modeling.
👽🖖
“Flat-Earthers” LOL Dave! I guess they would be attracted to model railroading by the flat expanse of 4x8 sheets of plywood set on perfectly level bench work…..😂
LMAO!!!
Thanks for encapsulating these ideas so well. I think most of us have some instinctive understanding of the detail threshold, but you offer a useful way to quantify it. I apply something similar that I call the "seems too fiddly" threshold, but mine is rooted in laziness.
Thank you for your wisdom and perspective Dave. I’m probably not the sharpest bulb but you put that in a way that I feel I could grasp the concept. Number one thing when it comes to level detail on my RR ? Budget! I add the details i can afford and if the look out of place they get repurposed elsewhere.
Budget is an important consideration!
Wow, that was deep!
You won't find this stuff on any other model train channel!
Good discussion Dave!
Thanks for a great video! What can get in the way of focusing on the human-sized viewer is the frequent exposure to extreme close-up photographs, which tends to focus on very minute details. I myself love such pictures a lot and am impressed with the respective model makers. Often, these photographs are taken from close to street-level perspective, so they are very diffferent in angle and resolution from what the human-sized viewer would perceive when viewing the model in real life. The thought I take from this video for myself is: I need to be clearer on which of the two I really want to focus with a given project.
Close up photography is something I probably should have mentioned here. It all depends on the modeler's goals. If you want your models to look great in closeup photos, that's a closer detail threshold than the naked eye.
I must admit that I love detail. You see so many layouts at exhibitions with no vehicles in the train yard, and no model people around either except for, maybe, the platform waiting for a train and then they are all looking toward the track where there is very little to see. I look at real stations for inspiration. Heritage ones if I have the option, and preferably when an historical time is being depicted. My model set up is in 0 scale, standard gauge, 1930s time period, U.K prototype. To make my layout come alive, I turn model people to each other and the human brain sees them having a conversation or argument etc. The same with goods yard details there will be a crane with a load left hanging whilst a break for the operator is taken and one can see him sitting reading the newspaper. This all goes to make the scene come alive and it works too. I have a porter who has just dropped a passengers suitcase and it has burst open revealing all the clothes inside. There is the squire on horse-back with his shotgun across his lap as he has just detained a poacher and 2 police officers have turned up to keep the peace. While all this is happening, a railway worker is cleaning the station windows with his bucket of water at his feet, etc. All this works for me and I hope it does for others too. You, Dave have certainly got the scenic 'movement' right. I can only try to do similar.
Sorry thses comments have dragged on some.
Regards, Paul, in Cornwall. U.K.
Thank you
While I agree with your thoughts on pattern recognition and etc., I can still see that A/C unit in the wall. LOL Sorry, I couldn't resist. Keep Up the Awesome Work
Definitely a huge helping of food for thought, and perhaps something i have considered with involvement and discussion in past model railroad clubs. The larger the scale is, the more it becomes relevant to the visitor, either at a home layout or a club layout. Many details are only going to be seen, or even known by a very small amount of people. Still chewing on the information presented in the video.
I wonder if the scale is really as crucial to level of detail as one would think. At some level, it still comes down to composition, and detail becoming distracting to the overall effect.
Very interesting topic today. I enjoy adding detail but how much is too much? You bring up an interesting idea.
Dear Sir,
What an excellent explanation of pareidolia and apophenia! Just two of the numerous cognitive biases we all suffer from... Well, some more than others, it seems.
Cheers from Brazil!
Hmmm that shirt looks awfully familiar! Train shack !!!
The detail threshold works fine when viewed in-person, but in the mid-2020s many of us want to share our modeling online or in magazines. This is where the detail threshold meets the microscopic eye of the camera lens and we panic if we cannot read the print on the 19 Orders in our T-scale (1:450) engineer's hand. 🤣
Yes, I should have mentioned photography in the video. Perhaps a topic for another time.
Always love the content here even though I model N-Scale. I am still learning how to help perceive details that I can't replicate due to the small size.
Great little detour. Sounds like you listen to Neil Degrasse Tyson's Start Talk... He has told similar evolution and perception stories.
Thanks. The wind/lion in the grass story is a pretty common explainer in cognitive evolution though I can't remember who first came up with it.
Good video with good points. Only the thing of video and photo graphs make it different because a good soom in camera brings you closer and those pictures are the ones shown on social media and in magazines...
This might be a topic that could be added to this one.
As in showing how you like to show your work in comparison with what people see during an open studio day...
This video was very informative, helpful and interesting I certainly hope that you keep making more of this type of videos in the near future because I learn so much from them.
Thank you!
I watched this one when it came out but was in the middle of the audio book version of _The Selfish Gene_ by Richard Dawkins at the time. Shortly after the 5:00 minute mark, I had to stop the video and finish the book before I could come back to comment.
Never would have thought that the evolutionary advantage of assuming that the wind in the grass is actually a lion springs from the same genetic impulse that allows me to easily imagine peeking through the windows of one of your structures and mentally seeing the family inside that log cabin, the telegraph operator stepped away from his station to use the privy.
Equally easy to imagine that it was not just serendipity that had me reading Dawkins and thinking about memetics at the same time as this video was posted.
But to come to the realization that I love building models because I am genetically adapted to avoid getting eaten by lions is a great reason to get lost in model making and the imagining that goes with it. And clearly the model making impulse indicates that we all, as model railroaders are better adapted to survive than non-modelers.
Well reasoned!
Not a heliographic theory believer, but you did not offend me. Also not an evolution theory believer, but you didn’t offend me with that either. I’m very difficult to offend anyway, but that aside. We only understand 10% of the brain in a scientific way, but the part of perception and completing images is clear for us to experience. So over the outcome I’m all with you in this story, eventhough I have a completely different input. #justsayin
Nice video and perspective! 👊
-1- Sebas
Did anyone catch the old Jerome studio at time stamp 1:10? he even has the same shirt on?? Did you do that on purpose Dave or do some creative CGI?😂
Excellent discussion. A lot of food for thought there. As I am planning and building a new layout (HO scale), the scenes that interest me most are planned to be placed in the foreground, with, as you pointed out, less detailed scenes further away from the viewer.
As a side note, this brought to mind a video where you alluded to the idea some folks have that Malcolm Furlow was not actually a model railroader. I would say that Furlow's earlier work (Denver & Rio Chama Western, Model railroader's San Juan Central project) fit squarely into most people's definition of model railroading. His later stuff? I would regard it as impressionism, which I believe still has a valid place in the hobby, although some people might find it somewhat disturbing (edgy, perhaps?) Just my 2 cents.
This reminds me of a story involving comic book creation. A pro told an amateur that he should study anatomy on how the body is formed together. He pointed out how many newbies will draw their superhero but it will unreal.
Even though it is sci-fi, there has to be some realistic base
That's the "believability threshold"
@@ThunderMesaStudio seams like for model RR details are become more detailed
Great presentation as always. I just found one thing that drove me nuts, Please either put a battery in your clock or plug it in. LOL I have learned so much from watching your art. I am a person that has to have a ruler to draw a stick man and make it look like a stick man. Thank you for all the GREAT video content.
The stopped clock is the new AC unit.
Professor Dave, great class today! I learned a lot. However, I think the skull on the shelf must have thought it was the wind when actually it was a lion and that’s all that’s left of the poor guy. 😂
Thanks for the great video. Take care!
Lol
That's a *great* presentation; thanks, Dave! I'd like to throw in another factor to the Detail Threshold: Budget. Whether it's time or money or both, that's going to affect what you can do. I think of this in the context of theme park design: How much detail can you add that will make things believable without giving the bean counters fits? Perhaps use a lot of simple details, or one big detail that convinces the viewer.
I was interested in the analysis of AI art. It looks "wrong" to me and now I have a better understanding of why -- extra fingers not withstanding.
One of the other philosophies I've found useful is aiming at a consistent level of detail so nothing stands out as too good or not enough. I think this might have originated with Allen Mclelland. That said, subtly different levels can help too - more detailed locos, boxcars that pass muster as a fleet, a more broadbrush approach to buildings. At least for a frustrated locomotive collector like me.
Fantastic. So much information in a pithy, digestible summary.
(Though it's always worth noting that Jackson Pollock's success was literally orchestrated by a cold war CIA operation!)
That was a good video. After watching it I got to thinking about how many scale feet our eyes are from models. Standing back a couple of feet from the kitchen counter ( I don’t have a layout right now) , about where I thought I would often view layouts from I measured from my eyes to the edge of the counter. It was three feet. So if I multiply that by the scale I’m looking at that would give me the approximate distance I would be from a full sized train. So this is what I came up with. 1/24 th, 72 feet. 1/32- 96 ft . O- 144 ft, S - 192 ft,
HO -261 feet, N - 480 ft, and Z- 660 ft. So look at a full sized train from that distance to see what details are the most visible. And no I’m not saying that one should not put more detail, but looking at what details are the most visible.
Glad it got you thinking!
I almost went the route of ON30 but I acquired my cousin's Lionel 027 train set just like I had when I was 3 yrs. old so I went the Lionel route, a little more toyish. I already have one expensive hobby and that is HO scale. Since I model the turn of the 19th century I have to just about build all my rolling stock from kits or scratch build or even kit bash some models. Most of the 19th century rolling stock is based on the truss rod flatcar and most of my rolling stock has truss rods with no grab irons. No brake detail 'cause it hadn't been invented yet. To be correct I'd have to use link & pin couplers but I prefer the ease & look of Kadee couplers.
My rule of detail is if it is believable then I've done my job. I don't like the 3 foot rule. Has to be believable.
Cheers from eastern TN
Birds are not real! This was a great video.
Great video! I think of N scale as impressionistic. It's too small for lots of fine detail but you can suggest that detail, give an impression that the detail is there. As you said, the mind fills in the blanks. But when you want a clever gag or something to suggest a deeper story, sometimes the scale is too small to reasonably accomplish that, if you can at all. If someone can tell me how to build working, custom neon in 1:160, I'd love to hear how.
Dave this is a conversation I have with all types of modelers but they often don’t get it. Those of us who are trained artists have learned to be aware of our own perception and behavior so we are consciously aware of what we see and in the order we pick up details. Most of the time average modelers are not trained so the mash as much detail in as they can and it’s often much to large, resulting in the clutter you are talking about. If i bring that up the other person usually get offended.
Well done, and with that said,,,,writing and doing all that dialogue, they're has to be a blooper reel in some of this, models coming undone, vocal flubs, etc.
Would love to see it if you haven't already and I missed it.
Us 'round earthers' always enjoy a good laugh. It releases endorphins and that helps with....well nevermind, that's another video.
Bravo to you!
Oh, there are bloopers
@@ThunderMesaStudio😅
Hope all is well with you
There is another question to be asked about how much detail is required? Do you detail a locomotives to the ninth degree only to have that detail break off when handled? Or when I am standing back 3 of 4 feet from a structure model, can I tell the difference between a highly detailed stick built kit over a highly detailed printed paper structure? That is part of the perspective too.
Good point
I'm sure The Train Shack is thrilled to see you wearing that shirt!
No need to apologies for believing/teaching scientific facts to make religious fanatics feel good. Great explanation of human perception.
I once had an interesting conversation with a Jehova's witness minister. We were talking broadly and then I said, "Don;t think that you lot (JW), have got it absolutely correct. No religion on this planey has. For if they did have it correct, then they would BE God. God, as an impression, is a combination of all religions. That surprised him!!
Regards, Paul, in Cornwall. U.K.
Hi dave, I hope that you and your family are doing well, I have not heard anything from you in the last couple of weeks and miss your shows emencly😢
The larger scale G trains seem to have fewer fine details than say OO/HO models and like you say it's all a matter of perception.
Film and theme park sets don't include all of the details as the viewer adds details in their mind.
It depends on the product line/ manufacturer. Some are very detailed, others less so.
Hey Dave... Quick question. I purchased some super tree material and created some really convincing trees... I ventured to try other natural materials with surprisingly fantastic results as well... the problem I have, is now that my beautiful scenery has aged a year, they've turned brittle (i mean, REALLY BRITTLE!!! Do you have experience with "preserving" natural vegetation? Isn't there a coating or product I can use that extends the materials flexibility? Any advice is greatly appreciated 😊
You need to soak Super Trees and other natural materials in diluted PVA (white glue or matte medium). When dry, they will be more flexible and less brittle.
@ThunderMesaStudio thank you... I thought there was a product like glycerine... I could be way off on that. Makes sense though. My budget doesn't support too much trial & error... mostly error 😁. I thought I'd get advice from an advanced dealer such as yourself before proceeding. Thank you.
Some modelers like George Sellios might disagree. His layout is detailed as if everything is a foreground model even though he is in HO. While he does use some forced perspective and smaller structures in the background, his overall philosophy seems to be detail everything as much as possible but he seems to find the right stopping point so it is not overdone. That being said, I liked your idea that scale can dictate the level of detail required for the human eye to perceive just enough.
"A difference of opinion makes horse racing." Mark Twain
Sorry, off topic... Is that a picture of Keith Richards behind you at 6.06 to 6.25, just below the CHARMA sign? Ha ha... Great Video....
That's me dressed as Teddy Roosevelt.
I have so many buildings I want to try and put together, but I am so scared of screwing them up that I don't even touch them.... how can I snap myself out of this?
My OCD, a safety detail, at 2:25 those sticks pointing out are an eye hazard.
I'll be careful
Hi Dave, I came across a model railway diorama recently with forced perspective. It illustrates so well the points you have made. The closer the object is to the foreground, the bigger it is modelled and the greater the detail. The further the objects are away, the smaller as less detailed they are. In this scene it really works admirably - I hope you get round to viewing it as it's only 6 minutes long. ruclips.net/video/ZMW4Yz-fXcA/видео.html
Building models is our interpretation of reality. If you want to make a realistic model of a specific building, locomotive or freight car, step back 87’ (HO scale) from the real thing and model what you see. Too many modelers stand next to the real thing to build a 1/87th scale replica/interpretation of it. You can’t see the forest through the trees.
I model O scale. I’ve seen some not so detailed models that look amazingly realistic because of their excellent paint job and weathering. They are believable.
👍👍👍❤❤❤🚂🚂🚂
3 weeks no updates ???
You definitely read Why Beautiful People Have More Daughters. If not, you need to.
To Clutter or not to Clutter. 🤔
The song Rocky Mountain High by John Denver accurately summed up your new age sermon up to the 8 minute mark. Makes me wonder how many peyote buttons you consumed?
There was nothing New Age about the discussion. Nothing was attributed to spirits, animal deities, or aliens. It was all basic art school and biology 101. Maybe you should have skipped ahead.
Wait does this video mean you are an evolutionary biologists psychologists and Buddhists? 5:57
It means I'm an artist
Is it just me, or is the volume a bit lower at the new place?
Still working out the kinks
Sorry, CHAMA sign...
Everything ok? You’ve been gone for a week.
I've been down with a nasty upper respiratory infection. Better now, but I've lost my voice! New video soon
Amazing video, very insightful, thank you!