Excellent point at the beginning. People not wanting to carry a team or help others through elites are not going to enjoy this, and it’s fine. Me personally I am extremely excited!
Me too, I am sincerely hoping that this causes a much a needed shift in build ideology - more teamwork oriented, more balanced builds that factor in some durability as well as offensive output.
watching this, i've realised that i have a weird dps/tank build on my current ship. i have to play around with the new ship from the risa event to see what i'll make the build for it be. what fun.
thanks for the infos and yes if the evacuating ships die in starbase 1 its over and this has happened to me, but it was because of the warp core breaches of the enemy ships.
TFO' requires the 3 S.S.S. for it to go relatively smooth. Skill: knowing how to handle your ship and setup. Strategy: Knowledge of the mission. Knowing what to do and when to do it. Strength: your ship build. Whether is a DPS buid, Healer, Crowd control. Always start on Normal level. This will give you the knowledge of the mission without risking your teammates rewards. Each level increases the NPC's punch and health. Example: Defense of Starbase One A Kingon BoP on: Normal = 52K hull Advance = 112K hull Elite = 534K hull And a Klingon Cleave Battleship on Elite Has 2,081,960 hull They do heal, so DPS is a factor to taking them down. In space TFO's. Ship Loadouts are your friends. Have your ship loadouts ready to go so you can switch on the fly to match the skill required to better fit the mission. Especially if your flying a whale that is difficult to maneuver in. Don't be that guy that flies in on a whale ship to help, only for them to get into weapons range and then end up sliding out of weapons range and taking about a minute to turn the ship around and try to come back, because they don't know how to correctly stop a flying whale. If funny the first couple of times it happens, but now it's just annoying. By the time they do a course correction, the mob of enemies is ether dead or the player that needed help is dead. Know your ship's limits.
Agree on all counts. For those still power sliding in big ships, after you drop throttle simply go to quarter throttle and the ship will slide far less. Leg Vorcha I used in this video has a very low inertia (slides a lot) but I never fully drop throttle and therefore can maneuver just fine. Cheers
@@Tormented22 Very true, although a while back someone logged 200 random TFO's and out of those only 23% of them were ground. There just aren't as many ground TFO's in the advanced random rotation - not sure if it will be the same for Elite, but the game heavily favors space.
@@Tormented22 Check this thread out. It's 3 years old but the RATFO list hasn't been updated in 3 years anyway so it's still up to date lol. www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/kfnflu/i_tracked_200_random_tfos_here_are_the_results/
I’ve recently returned to the game after 4 years because of the hype lately. Was an og founder and quit when they wouldn’t honour my lifetime rewards due to the buyout and reorganization, came back when after a year or so and got bored due to lack of content. Now there’s so much it feels like I’ll never catch up…but just thought I’d share as the game seems to be going through a renaissance and I will gladly consume any content like this that can help me catch back up!
Welcome back! Sorry to hear about the lifetime issues. There is a lot of new stuff, but you really won’t be that far behind. Just the fact that you’re willing to search or watch a video puts you ahead of 90% of the playerbase. Lots of cheap/free/budget options can make you elite viable again in short order. Cheers
@@bretsgamingchannelIs there some kind of theorycrafting database/wiki to skim through for STO? I remember playing back in highschool when just flying around in an assimilated borg set chel grett (when that was new and t5 ships was the top of the line) was good enough to have some fun, not knowing anything about game mechanics or how to build.
@@seven9766 My best advice would be to either find a fleet of skilled players and listen to them, or join the stobuilds discord or stobuilds reddit page and look at some sample builds there such as the "t6 baby steps guide." That will get you the basics and then you can ask better questions later. Just going to one of those places and asking "what do I need?" is too generic of a question for anyone to really help you - ultimately, you need to learn the basics well enough yourself first and then move on to making improvements. It takes some time for sure, but worth it.
korfezz, man, korfezz. the two times i played that one, both times the whole team got blasted to smithereens in the first 2 minutes. then we were dying in 30 seconds of respawning. haven't tried elites since that last try.
When I was trying to get random elites done for R&D stuff, pretty much all failed, unless it was unfailable. Though my build is a 100% invisible one, where I never get targeted. I adapted that because I always had "aggro" in advanced and was targeted even when doing as little as possible.
@@bretsgamingchannel Maybe, but how so? I was doing roughly 50-70% group damage. I was doing the objectives too. I don't see how I as Tac should have to tank for them also.
@@Orodreth888 Captain career has no bearing on whether you are tank or not - if 50-75% of damage and doing objectives is enough to succeed, then you're doing just fine. But since you mentioned you are failing often, you can take some steps to help your team that improve your chances. It's better to successfully complete the run than to fail but do more damage than everyone else. So even if it means dropping some damage for a better team build, it would be worth it if that means success. If you're looking at it from a "it's not my job to help them" viewpoint, then random elites aren't for you - stick to premade teams, as I said in the video. Or, just accept that you will fail at randoms unless someone else in a more team-oriented build carries you. Obviously the responsibility doesn't lie only on you, but since you can't communicate with your team beforehand that's kind of the mindset you have to take when building. Of course, it doesn't really matter right now, since failing doesn't have any consequences, you still get the random TFO box with the mark reward and isomag component.
We were doing Khitomer for example. I noticed that I was done with "my" generator much quicker then my team mates. I did right/left so I could stop propes too. I typed in chat that they needed to stop theirs too but noone did. So I was stuck between helping them DPS and going back and forth to stop probes. Other examples are similar. I am either doing secundaries which when failed fail the mission or doing DPS on critical structures or enemies so we would win timer races. If I did not do secundaries we would fail, but also fail because we did not have enough DPS for timer races. The stealth build with Intel Team is self defense, yes (for one so I don't die and for me to be able to stay alive and kicking to do secundaries). I do dish out 200-300k DPS single target in good teams without nanni. So in summery I queued for elite and had to watch my team explode and be unable to finish tasks. To be fair I do indeed follow the motto "Don't join if you can not at least take care of yourself" but I also don't know how I could support and do critical mission tasks at the same time with such a team performance.
@@Orodreth888 Oh yeah, that's a tougher one, and obviously if your teammates are completely awful/oblivious there's only so much you can do. Are you still running the Phantom build from your other video? Adding emergency power to engines + comp engines and evasive doff allows me to cover probes from both sides... sucks to have to put in that much effort though. That's why I mention in the Counterpoint part of this video that a lot of TFO's just require speed, Khitomer is one, Gravity Kills another etc
I have been doing advance tfos for years. I could not do the optionals for brotherhood of the sword if my life depended on it. Please do a video on optional objectives.
My plan is to go through each TFO individually, using the same build for every TFO (as if queuing for random) and cover the objectives. Probably, I'll do each TFO in its own video, but I'll need to run a few with pug teams (starting on Tuesday) so I can get a feel for what people can/can't do and where the most common struggles are. My only experience with Elites is running with friends on voice where obviously we won't fail the objectives because everyone knows what they're doing already haha.
The system is dumb, without gatekeeping it's going to be an absolute mess of undergeared underskilled players trying it out and causing the mission to fail. Games like wow, ff14 etc know full well how this sort of content works, since they use gearscores to ensure if you don't have the skill at least you have the gear. Not to mention they have holy trinity at least, where here it's a free for all. All that said, this video was great, thanks for the hard work.
If you don’t want to risk a random group, you can still preform your team and use the random queue to get those sweet sweet rewards. This is a good thing.
My plan is to do a guide for each elite TFO at some point. Have a few scripts written just need to take the time to record them and some clips. It'll take a while because I need to play with randoms, if I play with my usual teammates then it's not really an accurate measure of what most players experience. Stay tuned...
I've got ALL the popcorn ready for the influx of Reddit threads! Also SB1 ships dying will fail the TFO. I've had them get pounded and them eat a few warp core breaches from an errant grav well and once they pop its game over.
Thanks for confirming! I do know more teammates means more ships spawn in as well. I tried one with two teammates afk and they survived but I couldn’t test with a full 5 man… I guess I could’ve created more accounts lol. But yeah, within the first week or two I bet Reddit will be filled with “the game is too hard!!!” complaint threads. That’s why I made the video really, if people had a more team oriented mindset with their builds, it would mean a lot less failures. You wouldn’t believe some of the things I’ve read, like people saying they refuse to run debuffs because it “pads other players dps,” or “doing objectives isn’t my job” or inventing roles that aren’t effective/don’t exist like a “cloaked fighter swarm build.” It’s going to be a rude awakening for a lot of people who are above average in Advanced but aren’t capable of carrying an elite tfo solo.
@@bretsgamingchannel Oh I absolutely believe it. I mean how many times have we seen threads complaining about the ridiculous notion that people do too much dps? Especially during events, blaming players for doing high damage and NOT Cryptic for not giving higher difficulty options. These people generally do the bare minimum in damage in advanced and don't even realize they're being carried and they're in for an incredible awakening if they queue elite. Hopefully more people will see this video but I have a feeling that the ones that really need it, like people who ask for a build on X ship not realizing that virtually every ship is the same when it comes to how to put a build archetype together so just learn how to do that, wont.
I do feel like I’m shouting into the void a bit, because you’re right. Ships are not that different from each other but people still ask generic questions and then get bad/unfocused advice because the question was bad. And the people who need to see and understand a video about working as a team the most, are the people who don’t watch/learn this stuff, and just depend on getting carried. My hope though is that I can reach a few people and make them realize that a few steps (some survivability and team wide buffs) can help actually contribute. My fear is that cryptic will just remove all of the failure conditions for elite as the complaints roll in.
Its amazing how stupid people are or if they just arent reading the mission objectives. Everyone is just gunning every time they see an enemy. This is especially painful for the universal endeavors like gravity kills or the last one counterpoint.
OR give it a few months. Between players getting more knowledgeable about the TFOs and normal DPS creep even a noob like me can join in by then and not die.
It can be pretty frustrating when you queue up for tfo's and you have people who are just basically floating through the game ignoring game mechanics and pretty much just reveling in their malicious ingnorance. And it is malicious. Because they generally don't care and will queue up for difficult content on purpose. It's a game, you cannot simply "exist on a map and win".
Sadly "exist on the map and win" is the vast majority of players in this game. I'd like to think that anyone willing to do some googling and find this video, or other youtube guides, reddit guides, etc is at least one step ahead of the rest and trying to make an effort. "Malicious Ignorance" is a great way to describe the rest of the playerbase though.
It's not just the players that cause TFO's to fail. It's Cryptic too. They tend to give the player base a middle finger. I have played TFO's that fail. Yet the requirements had not been met for the fail. There was no logical reason why the TFO failed. And left us players like WTF!!??? But you are damn straight Cryptic Studios won't be adults and take responsibility for their actions. Why do that when you can fault the players. And you say for the players to improve and fix the problem. Get rid of Cryptic Studio's. That will fix many of the problems.
I know it’s long. In short: do the mission objectives, it isn’t always “mindlessly shoot the enemy” Ps: you can use the chapters to jump to parts you think are more interesting, so you can just watch a few minutes if you prefer
Beta stacks, the more people running it, the better. Think of it this way. 1 player running Beta means a 10m HP enemy only takes 9m damage to kill. 5 players running Beta, now that enemy dies in 5m damage. *Yes there are diminishing returns but you'll never see the effects of that in a pug group
@@bretsgamingchannel Oh I just assumed it didn't stack. I will run Beta 3 all the time then. No one designs a game with unlimited debuff stacking, is there a limit?
There are diminishing returns, each stack of a drr debuff is slightly less effective. But there’s no hard limit except rare situations (ex cold hearted only stacks 5x, so only one player per team needs to run that). Very inconsistent though, SAD, Beta, or Graviton Implosion Charges all stack more than 5x even, so more than a tfo team could even do. Best way to check is to use one of the calculators to see what is “too much” debuff. But considering we are not even scraping the limits with 4x dedicated Nannies in dps run teams, you’re never going to hit any real limit in a pug team. Obviously you still need to deal damage too of course, I ran 5 RATFO’s and parsed them all in the same chunk, and the average debuff was barely -25%. That’s basically nothing, and definitely not enough for an elite team. But to be clear, you also couldn’t succeed bringing 5x builds with Beta 3 but only Mk II weapons or something. There’s a balance to be struck and we won’t know what it is exactly until it’s live and we can gather some data from the general players queuing for it.
Excellent point at the beginning. People not wanting to carry a team or help others through elites are not going to enjoy this, and it’s fine. Me personally I am extremely excited!
Me too, I am sincerely hoping that this causes a much a needed shift in build ideology - more teamwork oriented, more balanced builds that factor in some durability as well as offensive output.
Great Video! Thanks for going beyond just a build video for Elite Randoms! Also, nice choice of music.
Thank you haha! Heard that song and had to use it.
watching this, i've realised that i have a weird dps/tank build on my current ship. i have to play around with the new ship from the risa event to see what i'll make the build for it be. what fun.
Let's see the bright side: Even when you fail, you get the isomag coil. ^^
thanks for the infos and yes if the evacuating ships die in starbase 1 its over and this has happened to me, but it was because of the warp core breaches of the enemy ships.
TFO' requires the 3 S.S.S. for it to go relatively smooth.
Skill: knowing how to handle your ship and setup.
Strategy: Knowledge of the mission. Knowing what to do and when to do it.
Strength: your ship build. Whether is a DPS buid, Healer, Crowd control.
Always start on Normal level. This will give you the knowledge of the mission without risking your teammates rewards.
Each level increases the NPC's punch and health.
Example: Defense of Starbase One
A Kingon BoP on:
Normal = 52K hull
Advance = 112K hull
Elite = 534K hull
And a Klingon Cleave Battleship on Elite
Has 2,081,960 hull
They do heal, so DPS is a factor to taking them down.
In space TFO's.
Ship Loadouts are your friends.
Have your ship loadouts ready to go so you can switch on the fly to match the skill required to better fit the mission.
Especially if your flying a whale that is difficult to maneuver in.
Don't be that guy that flies in on a whale ship to help, only for them to get into weapons range and then end up sliding out of weapons range and taking about a minute to turn the ship around and try to come back, because they don't know how to correctly stop a flying whale.
If funny the first couple of times it happens, but now it's just annoying. By the time they do a course correction, the mob of enemies is ether dead or the player that needed help is dead.
Know your ship's limits.
Agree on all counts. For those still power sliding in big ships, after you drop throttle simply go to quarter throttle and the ship will slide far less. Leg Vorcha I used in this video has a very low inertia (slides a lot) but I never fully drop throttle and therefore can maneuver just fine. Cheers
Also helps if you remember half the randoms are _ground maps_ and that your ship build won't matter.
@@Tormented22 Very true, although a while back someone logged 200 random TFO's and out of those only 23% of them were ground. There just aren't as many ground TFO's in the advanced random rotation - not sure if it will be the same for Elite, but the game heavily favors space.
@@bretsgamingchannel Oh really? That's interesting to know. Thanks.
@@Tormented22 Check this thread out. It's 3 years old but the RATFO list hasn't been updated in 3 years anyway so it's still up to date lol.
www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/kfnflu/i_tracked_200_random_tfos_here_are_the_results/
I’ve recently returned to the game after 4 years because of the hype lately. Was an og founder and quit when they wouldn’t honour my lifetime rewards due to the buyout and reorganization, came back when after a year or so and got bored due to lack of content. Now there’s so much it feels like I’ll never catch up…but just thought I’d share as the game seems to be going through a renaissance and I will gladly consume any content like this that can help me catch back up!
Welcome back! Sorry to hear about the lifetime issues. There is a lot of new stuff, but you really won’t be that far behind. Just the fact that you’re willing to search or watch a video puts you ahead of 90% of the playerbase. Lots of cheap/free/budget options can make you elite viable again in short order. Cheers
@@bretsgamingchannelIs there some kind of theorycrafting database/wiki to skim through for STO?
I remember playing back in highschool when just flying around in an assimilated borg set chel grett (when that was new and t5 ships was the top of the line) was good enough to have some fun, not knowing anything about game mechanics or how to build.
@@seven9766 My best advice would be to either find a fleet of skilled players and listen to them, or join the stobuilds discord or stobuilds reddit page and look at some sample builds there such as the "t6 baby steps guide." That will get you the basics and then you can ask better questions later. Just going to one of those places and asking "what do I need?" is too generic of a question for anyone to really help you - ultimately, you need to learn the basics well enough yourself first and then move on to making improvements. It takes some time for sure, but worth it.
korfezz, man, korfezz. the two times i played that one, both times the whole team got blasted to smithereens in the first 2 minutes. then we were dying in 30 seconds of respawning. haven't tried elites since that last try.
Elites good news I just wish they would add the option to do elites sole on console
Had practice with the ISOMAG RUSH, itll be fine we carry they pugs
When I was trying to get random elites done for R&D stuff, pretty much all failed, unless it was unfailable. Though my build is a 100% invisible one, where I never get targeted. I adapted that because I always had "aggro" in advanced and was targeted even when doing as little as possible.
Sounds like you need to help your teammates more. Going invisible is just hanging your team out to dry and increasing the chances of failure.
@@bretsgamingchannel Maybe, but how so? I was doing roughly 50-70% group damage. I was doing the objectives too. I don't see how I as Tac should have to tank for them also.
@@Orodreth888 Captain career has no bearing on whether you are tank or not - if 50-75% of damage and doing objectives is enough to succeed, then you're doing just fine. But since you mentioned you are failing often, you can take some steps to help your team that improve your chances.
It's better to successfully complete the run than to fail but do more damage than everyone else. So even if it means dropping some damage for a better team build, it would be worth it if that means success. If you're looking at it from a "it's not my job to help them" viewpoint, then random elites aren't for you - stick to premade teams, as I said in the video. Or, just accept that you will fail at randoms unless someone else in a more team-oriented build carries you. Obviously the responsibility doesn't lie only on you, but since you can't communicate with your team beforehand that's kind of the mindset you have to take when building.
Of course, it doesn't really matter right now, since failing doesn't have any consequences, you still get the random TFO box with the mark reward and isomag component.
We were doing Khitomer for example. I noticed that I was done with "my" generator much quicker then my team mates. I did right/left so I could stop propes too. I typed in chat that they needed to stop theirs too but noone did. So I was stuck between helping them DPS and going back and forth to stop probes.
Other examples are similar. I am either doing secundaries which when failed fail the mission or doing DPS on critical structures or enemies so we would win timer races. If I did not do secundaries we would fail, but also fail because we did not have enough DPS for timer races.
The stealth build with Intel Team is self defense, yes (for one so I don't die and for me to be able to stay alive and kicking to do secundaries). I do dish out 200-300k DPS single target in good teams without nanni.
So in summery I queued for elite and had to watch my team explode and be unable to finish tasks. To be fair I do indeed follow the motto "Don't join if you can not at least take care of yourself" but I also don't know how I could support and do critical mission tasks at the same time with such a team performance.
@@Orodreth888 Oh yeah, that's a tougher one, and obviously if your teammates are completely awful/oblivious there's only so much you can do. Are you still running the Phantom build from your other video? Adding emergency power to engines + comp engines and evasive doff allows me to cover probes from both sides... sucks to have to put in that much effort though. That's why I mention in the Counterpoint part of this video that a lot of TFO's just require speed, Khitomer is one, Gravity Kills another etc
Good stuff, Bret.
Thank you!
Every time I do random, I get BUG HUNT!!!
I have been doing advance tfos for years. I could not do the optionals for brotherhood of the sword if my life depended on it. Please do a video on optional objectives.
My plan is to go through each TFO individually, using the same build for every TFO (as if queuing for random) and cover the objectives. Probably, I'll do each TFO in its own video, but I'll need to run a few with pug teams (starting on Tuesday) so I can get a feel for what people can/can't do and where the most common struggles are. My only experience with Elites is running with friends on voice where obviously we won't fail the objectives because everyone knows what they're doing already haha.
After running a few hundred random elites I am noticing that torpedoes do a lot more damage than energy weapons.
The system is dumb, without gatekeeping it's going to be an absolute mess of undergeared underskilled players trying it out and causing the mission to fail. Games like wow, ff14 etc know full well how this sort of content works, since they use gearscores to ensure if you don't have the skill at least you have the gear. Not to mention they have holy trinity at least, where here it's a free for all.
All that said, this video was great, thanks for the hard work.
If you don’t want to risk a random group, you can still preform your team and use the random queue to get those sweet sweet rewards. This is a good thing.
@@stephenkelly8312 Yeah thats how it will go after a few days of mess, pre mades to get the bonuses
Thanks for the pro tips!
Please, make a guide for Elite "Days of Doom". The amount of people in random queue who are doing it wrong is ridiculous.
My plan is to do a guide for each elite TFO at some point. Have a few scripts written just need to take the time to record them and some clips. It'll take a while because I need to play with randoms, if I play with my usual teammates then it's not really an accurate measure of what most players experience. Stay tuned...
Thx for the Great video
Amazing that they finally create something to strive for after laying off most of their devs.
I've got ALL the popcorn ready for the influx of Reddit threads! Also SB1 ships dying will fail the TFO. I've had them get pounded and them eat a few warp core breaches from an errant grav well and once they pop its game over.
Thanks for confirming! I do know more teammates means more ships spawn in as well. I tried one with two teammates afk and they survived but I couldn’t test with a full 5 man… I guess I could’ve created more accounts lol.
But yeah, within the first week or two I bet Reddit will be filled with “the game is too hard!!!” complaint threads. That’s why I made the video really, if people had a more team oriented mindset with their builds, it would mean a lot less failures. You wouldn’t believe some of the things I’ve read, like people saying they refuse to run debuffs because it “pads other players dps,” or “doing objectives isn’t my job” or inventing roles that aren’t effective/don’t exist like a “cloaked fighter swarm build.” It’s going to be a rude awakening for a lot of people who are above average in Advanced but aren’t capable of carrying an elite tfo solo.
@@bretsgamingchannel Oh I absolutely believe it. I mean how many times have we seen threads complaining about the ridiculous notion that people do too much dps? Especially during events, blaming players for doing high damage and NOT Cryptic for not giving higher difficulty options. These people generally do the bare minimum in damage in advanced and don't even realize they're being carried and they're in for an incredible awakening if they queue elite.
Hopefully more people will see this video but I have a feeling that the ones that really need it, like people who ask for a build on X ship not realizing that virtually every ship is the same when it comes to how to put a build archetype together so just learn how to do that, wont.
I do feel like I’m shouting into the void a bit, because you’re right. Ships are not that different from each other but people still ask generic questions and then get bad/unfocused advice because the question was bad.
And the people who need to see and understand a video about working as a team the most, are the people who don’t watch/learn this stuff, and just depend on getting carried. My hope though is that I can reach a few people and make them realize that a few steps (some survivability and team wide buffs) can help actually contribute. My fear is that cryptic will just remove all of the failure conditions for elite as the complaints roll in.
Its amazing how stupid people are or if they just arent reading the mission objectives. Everyone is just gunning every time they see an enemy. This is especially painful for the universal endeavors like gravity kills or the last one counterpoint.
OR
give it a few months. Between players getting more knowledgeable about the TFOs and normal DPS creep even a noob like me can join in by then and not die.
spam actus Reprobate = elite chAmPioN
It can be pretty frustrating when you queue up for tfo's and you have people who are just basically floating through the game ignoring game mechanics and pretty much just reveling in their malicious ingnorance. And it is malicious. Because they generally don't care and will queue up for difficult content on purpose. It's a game, you cannot simply "exist on a map and win".
This is STO there is no carrying mechanic in carrying within itself is a toxic mindset because it places a huge burden on higher level players
Sadly "exist on the map and win" is the vast majority of players in this game. I'd like to think that anyone willing to do some googling and find this video, or other youtube guides, reddit guides, etc is at least one step ahead of the rest and trying to make an effort. "Malicious Ignorance" is a great way to describe the rest of the playerbase though.
Great 😢
It's not just the players that cause TFO's to fail. It's Cryptic too. They tend to give the player base a middle finger. I have played TFO's that fail. Yet the requirements had not been met for the fail. There was no logical reason why the TFO failed. And left us players like WTF!!??? But you are damn straight Cryptic Studios won't be adults and take responsibility for their actions. Why do that when you can fault the players. And you say for the players to improve and fix the problem. Get rid of Cryptic Studio's. That will fix many of the problems.
Wow, 55 minutes..... Can't commit.
I know it’s long. In short: do the mission objectives, it isn’t always “mindlessly shoot the enemy”
Ps: you can use the chapters to jump to parts you think are more interesting, so you can just watch a few minutes if you prefer
Awesome and kind reply, thank you. Yes, saw the chapters and that was the winning point for me, thank you.@@bretsgamingchannel
Everyone is running Beta, so seems kind a useless most of the time.
Beta stacks, the more people running it, the better.
Think of it this way. 1 player running Beta means a 10m HP enemy only takes 9m damage to kill. 5 players running Beta, now that enemy dies in 5m damage.
*Yes there are diminishing returns but you'll never see the effects of that in a pug group
@@bretsgamingchannel Oh I just assumed it didn't stack. I will run Beta 3 all the time then. No one designs a game with unlimited debuff stacking, is there a limit?
There are diminishing returns, each stack of a drr debuff is slightly less effective. But there’s no hard limit except rare situations (ex cold hearted only stacks 5x, so only one player per team needs to run that). Very inconsistent though, SAD, Beta, or Graviton Implosion Charges all stack more than 5x even, so more than a tfo team could even do.
Best way to check is to use one of the calculators to see what is “too much” debuff. But considering we are not even scraping the limits with 4x dedicated Nannies in dps run teams, you’re never going to hit any real limit in a pug team. Obviously you still need to deal damage too of course, I ran 5 RATFO’s and parsed them all in the same chunk, and the average debuff was barely -25%. That’s basically nothing, and definitely not enough for an elite team. But to be clear, you also couldn’t succeed bringing 5x builds with Beta 3 but only Mk II weapons or something. There’s a balance to be struck and we won’t know what it is exactly until it’s live and we can gather some data from the general players queuing for it.