Great to see discussion of the Sunken King DLC, my favourite of all the Souls DLCS! A few things I'd add: Although the Sunken King is described as defeated he is never stated to be killed or even dead, nor do we find a body that could conceivably be the Sunken King (unlike Yorgh), which is part of the reason for the Sunken King= Rotten theory. I've talked about that theory before and I'll copy that explanation below for anyone interested: "Prior to the Sunken King DLC the assumption was that the stone statues represented the Emerald Herald in some way, given the statue's feminine look and the way it showed a face within a hood, similar to how the EH has a hood covering her head. No one could come up with a particularly convincing explanation as to why exactly the Rotten would care so much about the EH tho, since they have no lore tying them together. The way that the rotten is clearly making (or at least repairing) these statues and shows emotional distress at one being damaged suggests a profound emotional connection between the Rotten and the statues in some way. With the release of the Sunken King DLC the assumption is now that the statues represent Elana, the Squalid Queen (or Queen of Rage depending on translation). This is because those statues also now exist in shulva (where they now spit petrification in addition to poison) and because of Elana's affinity for poison that we see in her boss fight. The most interesting reason for this, however, comes from a parallel theory about the Rotten. We never get to see or indeed are told much about the Sunken King himself, which has led many people (including myself) to conclude that he, in fact, is the original basis for the Rotten (the Rotten is clearly a combination of many people, but it would make sense that some especially powerful person or soul would be the basis for the later additions. The Rotten being the Sunken King would explain why he feels a connection to those statues (they are of his wife that he presumably left behind while fleeing during the invasion by the drakeblood knights) and why he is so melancholy (he fled his kingdom and his wife in fear and thus feels like a coward). The filth/kegare theme is strong with both characters, and both show extreme rage (although the Rotten also shows extreme sadness). Equally the idea of the Rotten making a home for discarded and unwanted things thematically fits with a king who has lost a kingdom, and who therefore has empathy for other unwanted or unloved things. The Rotten's soul also states 'The Rotten embraces all, in his sanctuary for all things rotten or tossed away.' sanctuary/ sanctum is a reoccurring theme in both the Rotten and the Sunken King's storyline . His boss arena being before the entrance to the Sunken Kingdom might also suggest that he is guarding what remains of his kingdom (and his wife) from further invasion. The only issue with this theory is that Elana does not look much like the statues, but in my opinion that's because (like the shuffling around of Lady Maria) the statues probably meant something else at an earlier point in development that was then cut (I assume that they were meant to look like the EH originally), and the devs reworked them into being Elana but couldn't change the statue's appearance as they already existed in the base game." Also with regards to 16:00, that also seems to be the relationship between the Ancient (fake) Dragon and the dragon cultists in Dragon Shrine, its not even clear if the Ancient Dragon cares at all about the Dragon Remnant covenant or frankly even knows it exists. Edit: Oh yeah the Velstadt thing..... its not QUITE as stupid as it looks at first given that Sir Yorgh has a direct connection to Drangliec through his ring, so its possible Velstadt was raised in/visited Shulva before signing on with Vendrick. I was under the impression that Elana is forming her filth into golems (another golem!) to fight you based on things she's seen rather than literally summoning them, so if she'd seen and been impressed by Velstadt before he makes sense why she'd use his form. But yeah its not exactly easy to explain with some major assumptions
Nice comment. I have a theory about the "summons". They are goldenlike: in ds 2 memories are represented with golden particles: i think that Elana is using a magic based on the memories of the people that lived there (the soldiers, animals that thrive in cities and Veldstadt). She wants to kill us also because she hopes to add ourselves to her group of champions
Well, I am pretty sure Velstad is supposed to be from Shulva and then meet Vendric and became his right hand. So Elana would use her memory of him to make a copy out of mud and filth.
34:31 The one interesting thing about Steelheart Ellie is that she shows up whenever you battle either the queen (in this DLC) or the queen's champion (in the other two). She also wears the veil which gives you curse immunity, implying she came to all these places specifically to throw hands with the queens of darkness.
Oh yeah just to note also that the 'holy wall' is actually in dragon shrine, there's a plaque of it above the doorway that leads into the altar with the petrified dragon egg. Its pretty small and out of the way but its there, i presume they wanted to reuse it in a grander way (and hint at a connection between the two places).
Small hint that will make the fight much easier. Leave one of the small Skellingtons alive and she won't summon anymore ;) Great episode! I cracked up when Elana did her shamless NFT plug xD
I always assumed Sihn`s poison was from Nito`s miasma from the war against the gods at the end of the age of ancients. It didn`t kill him just rendered him comatose and it`s been brewing inside his body for ages and it changed into a poison eventually. So then all the poison in the subterranean of DS2 originates from inside Sinh.
Expanding on the idea of "The Sunken King died of embarrassment", it is entirely possible that a poison wouldn't kill (at least not immediately) but instead leave a person in a debilitated state. The king may very well have spent years watching his city crumble.
Some thing i want to bring up to this discussion is Lindelt and Amana. On the monastery charm item description, it's said that Lindelt is "the new home of miracles". The Archdrake Set found on the enemies on Amana reads: "Little is known about the Archdrake sect and its ancient rituals, and those who dare to indulge their curiosity have been known to simply vanish. The Archdrake sect are the keepers of Lindelt's histories, including the only record of its foundation, a tome they have good reason to keep hidden away" Their shield reads: "The fools who woke the slumbering dragon earned not only its ire, but also the destruction of an entire country. The survivors buried their wrongdoings in the past, and in a show of terrible conceit, attempted to make amends by carrying on the knowledge of the wasted land." Shulva being a land were miracles prospered and sorceries waned, it checks out: Lindelt probably was founded by the survivors of the group that attempted to kill Sihn: the Drakeblood knights. On the top of their arrogance, they became the new keepers of the miracles originated on Shulva. But following this line of plot, why are those enemies from Lindelt using Archdrake set on Amana? I think it have more to do with production history than with a cohesive plot. Fromsoftware have very ambitious project, with a history of them being forced to abandon/cut many many ideas before the final release. Many of those end up being used as a base for dlcs, for example Darkeater Midir (that was suposed to be a boss on archdrake peak, ds3 basegame) or lost ollacile (that end up being the place for ds1 dlc). The same happened for sure on DS2, as we know a beta version of brume tower that looked very different (and was much smaller) is on the data of ds2. With the similarities of singing womans (milfanito/sanctum priestess), areas sunken on water and a monster being contained (demon of song/the slumbering dragon), i feel amana and shulva are the same idea implemented in different ways.
It's also possible, since Shrine of Amana is on the way to the Undead Crypt, and that we don't see the archdrake or sorceress' faces, that the idea was Vendrick used golems of the Lindelt people as guards for the Demon of Song, since they would be best fit for keeping a big dark secret given their history.
Hi Guys! loving the podcast when I hear Sophie's study music come on my heart sings! When I first played sunken king I assumed Velstadt only looked like he was made of piss because I was playing on the lowest possible graphics setting (because my computer's output registers within the margin of error) so I always assumed he was supposed to look golden and radiant and there were a load of particle effects I was missing... guess not I think the only real clue here is that 'Velstadt de l'urine' doesn't use his dark attack but does cause poison. I'm guessing poison makes sense if Elana is literally conjuring him out of the poison soaked ground much like the skeletons (I can't recall if the pigs cause posion), but the lack of dark attacks suggest either Velstadt of the past or a 'memory of Velstadt' from a time before he settled down in the undead crypt. I've heard someone suggest Velstadt's looks like it's based on Shulva knights, suggesting he's a hero from Shulva who went on to become Vendrik's hand, which I guess would make sense if Elana was conjouring from memory her idea of the greatest warrior from Shulva but I don't see the similarities in the armour at all - I guess it would make sense but for that (does Shulva count as a 'faraway land'?) Yup... no idea... apologies for that pointless paragraph lol. keep it up guys!
Dragon fire works the same way as pyromancy: a creature's waste is ignited by an internal mechanism, shown with the Spitfire Spear. The reason Sihn was full of poison is because his/her flame went out. When Yorgh stabbed the dragon it provided the ventilation needed to expel the stored waste. Yorgh seems to have been right about the power of dragon's 'blood' in that Sihn's poison seems to have seeped up into Harvest Valley, where Mytha is using it to build her kingdom. I mean nevermind, nothing in this game connects to itself or anything else obviously where else do we hear singing being used to generate a magical passivism field no where clearly I'm so glad everyone figured this game out two weeks after release and never thought about it again. Sihn definitively wasn't listening to the singing. We first meet the dragon at the very top of the cave when we first enter, as far from the song as possible. She then relocates to somewhere else. It isn't until we enter the Sanctum itself that Sihn enters the Sanctum. The Lindelt Archdrake Sect is descended from/allied with Shulva. Sihn is the Archdrake. The Lindelt Sect seems to have control of Amana. When we beat Elana we get the Flower Skirt and the Pharros Mask. The flower skirt, which reflects a 'young, healthy' Elana, describes a traveling troubadour who was seeking a powerful patron, presumably Sunken. The Pharros Mask would seem to indicate that the contraptions of Shulva were created by Pharros, and that Pharros was probably betrayed by Elana the Troubadour. Elana summons a copy of Velstadt. Nadalia summons a copy of Raime. The mural in Dragon Shrine is slightly different than the Shulva Mural. A jester is a member of a royal court. Thomas attacks you if you approach the Imperfect. Thomas assists you if you attack Mytha. Again, not that anything in this game connects to itself, it's pure solipsistic storytelling, each area might as well be in a different universe.
On Elana not being able to leave the room: she obviously had a plan for that (which was failing). She going to ride Sinh out of there! Thats why she was singing at the sanctum door, it was her equivalent of going "here kitty kitty kitty... pls come here... pls.. " But since Sinh is shown either flying around the city or sleeping in his boss arena, he obviously did not give a heck like an actual cat and ignored her calls. Now she is hopelessly singing at the door, waving cat treats in the hope that it will one day work 😂
that ending gave me anxiety for Elden Ring. Looking forward to finding out some other armour guy with a sword was the actual final boss and thats why the story doesnt make any sense.
From a thematic perspective you could explain Velstadt as not literally being Velstadt but a representation to say: "Look, this story keeps repeating itself." See it's actually very smart and not reusing assets when you think about it.
![The Three Firekeepers [Dark Souls 2 Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KZReziJqugE/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Three Firekeepers [Dark Souls 2 Lore]](/img/tr.png)
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![Megan Thee Stallion - Mamushi (Remix) [feat. TWICE] [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5c0_u9PsrsQ/mqdefault.jpg)
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Hope you enjoyed the podcast! Check out our Vampire the Masquerade campaign :) ruclips.net/video/CNeodhSDZno/видео.html
Learning about Queens of dark souls 2 from the Queens of dark souls lore
Great to see discussion of the Sunken King DLC, my favourite of all the Souls DLCS!
A few things I'd add: Although the Sunken King is described as defeated he is never stated to be killed or even dead, nor do we find a body that could conceivably be the Sunken King (unlike Yorgh), which is part of the reason for the Sunken King= Rotten theory. I've talked about that theory before and I'll copy that explanation below for anyone interested:
"Prior to the Sunken King DLC the assumption was that the stone statues represented the Emerald Herald in some way, given the statue's feminine look and the way it showed a face within a hood, similar to how the EH has a hood covering her head. No one could come up with a particularly convincing explanation as to why exactly the Rotten would care so much about the EH tho, since they have no lore tying them together. The way that the rotten is clearly making (or at least repairing) these statues and shows emotional distress at one being damaged suggests a profound emotional connection between the Rotten and the statues in some way.
With the release of the Sunken King DLC the assumption is now that the statues represent Elana, the Squalid Queen (or Queen of Rage depending on translation). This is because those statues also now exist in shulva (where they now spit petrification in addition to poison) and because of Elana's affinity for poison that we see in her boss fight. The most interesting reason for this, however, comes from a parallel theory about the Rotten. We never get to see or indeed are told much about the Sunken King himself, which has led many people (including myself) to conclude that he, in fact, is the original basis for the Rotten (the Rotten is clearly a combination of many people, but it would make sense that some especially powerful person or soul would be the basis for the later additions.
The Rotten being the Sunken King would explain why he feels a connection to those statues (they are of his wife that he presumably left behind while fleeing during the invasion by the drakeblood knights) and why he is so melancholy (he fled his kingdom and his wife in fear and thus feels like a coward). The filth/kegare theme is strong with both characters, and both show extreme rage (although the Rotten also shows extreme sadness). Equally the idea of the Rotten making a home for discarded and unwanted things thematically fits with a king who has lost a kingdom, and who therefore has empathy for other unwanted or unloved things. The Rotten's soul also states 'The Rotten embraces all, in his sanctuary for all things rotten or tossed away.' sanctuary/ sanctum is a reoccurring theme in both the Rotten and the Sunken King's storyline . His boss arena being before the entrance to the Sunken Kingdom might also suggest that he is guarding what remains of his kingdom (and his wife) from further invasion.
The only issue with this theory is that Elana does not look much like the statues, but in my opinion that's because (like the shuffling around of Lady Maria) the statues probably meant something else at an earlier point in development that was then cut (I assume that they were meant to look like the EH originally), and the devs reworked them into being Elana but couldn't change the statue's appearance as they already existed in the base game."
Also with regards to 16:00, that also seems to be the relationship between the Ancient (fake) Dragon and the dragon cultists in Dragon Shrine, its not even clear if the Ancient Dragon cares at all about the Dragon Remnant covenant or frankly even knows it exists.
Edit: Oh yeah the Velstadt thing..... its not QUITE as stupid as it looks at first given that Sir Yorgh has a direct connection to Drangliec through his ring, so its possible Velstadt was raised in/visited Shulva before signing on with Vendrick. I was under the impression that Elana is forming her filth into golems (another golem!) to fight you based on things she's seen rather than literally summoning them, so if she'd seen and been impressed by Velstadt before he makes sense why she'd use his form. But yeah its not exactly easy to explain with some major assumptions
Nice comment. I have a theory about the "summons". They are goldenlike: in ds 2 memories are represented with golden particles: i think that Elana is using a magic based on the memories of the people that lived there (the soldiers, animals that thrive in cities and Veldstadt). She wants to kill us also because she hopes to add ourselves to her group of champions
This video feels well edited, wich is very professional and nice
Well, I am pretty sure Velstad is supposed to be from Shulva and then meet Vendric and became his right hand. So Elana would use her memory of him to make a copy out of mud and filth.
34:31 The one interesting thing about Steelheart Ellie is that she shows up whenever you battle either the queen (in this DLC) or the queen's champion (in the other two). She also wears the veil which gives you curse immunity, implying she came to all these places specifically to throw hands with the queens of darkness.
Oh yeah just to note also that the 'holy wall' is actually in dragon shrine, there's a plaque of it above the doorway that leads into the altar with the petrified dragon egg. Its pretty small and out of the way but its there, i presume they wanted to reuse it in a grander way (and hint at a connection between the two places).
Small hint that will make the fight much easier. Leave one of the small Skellingtons alive and she won't summon anymore ;)
Great episode! I cracked up when Elana did her shamless NFT plug xD
Thats not true. I tried that before and she still summoned Velstadt.
@@JMB_Smash huh!? always worked for me. maybe I was lucky. sorry if I posted fake news
Doesn't work
Tried that
This videos are the true return to drangleic. Thanks a lot for this content.
Aesir: "You've gone over this 1000 times"
Snack Covenant: "You may initiate the thousand-first attempt, fair guest"
:)
tbh aesir should just be a full-time snackhead. the three of you are god damn priceless.
:)
You folks are the best, thank you!
I always assumed Sihn`s poison was from Nito`s miasma from the war against the gods at the end of the age of ancients. It didn`t kill him just rendered him comatose and it`s been brewing inside his body for ages and it changed into a poison eventually. So then all the poison in the subterranean of DS2 originates from inside Sinh.
This is such a cool theory, immediatly added to head canon
Expanding on the idea of "The Sunken King died of embarrassment", it is entirely possible that a poison wouldn't kill (at least not immediately) but instead leave a person in a debilitated state. The king may very well have spent years watching his city crumble.
Some thing i want to bring up to this discussion is Lindelt and Amana. On the monastery charm item description, it's said that Lindelt is "the new home of miracles".
The Archdrake Set found on the enemies on Amana reads: "Little is known about the Archdrake sect and its ancient rituals, and those who dare to indulge their curiosity have been known to simply vanish. The Archdrake sect are the keepers of Lindelt's histories, including the only record of its foundation, a tome they have good reason to keep hidden away"
Their shield reads: "The fools who woke the slumbering dragon earned not only its ire, but also the destruction of an entire country.
The survivors buried their wrongdoings in the past, and in a show of terrible conceit, attempted to make amends by carrying on the knowledge of the wasted land."
Shulva being a land were miracles prospered and sorceries waned, it checks out: Lindelt probably was founded by the survivors of the group that attempted to kill Sihn: the Drakeblood knights. On the top of their arrogance, they became the new keepers of the miracles originated on Shulva.
But following this line of plot, why are those enemies from Lindelt using Archdrake set on Amana? I think it have more to do with production history than with a cohesive plot. Fromsoftware have very ambitious project, with a history of them being forced to abandon/cut many many ideas before the final release. Many of those end up being used as a base for dlcs, for example Darkeater Midir (that was suposed to be a boss on archdrake peak, ds3 basegame) or lost ollacile (that end up being the place for ds1 dlc).
The same happened for sure on DS2, as we know a beta version of brume tower that looked very different (and was much smaller) is on the data of ds2.
With the similarities of singing womans (milfanito/sanctum priestess), areas sunken on water and a monster being contained (demon of song/the slumbering dragon), i feel amana and shulva are the same idea implemented in different ways.
It's also possible, since Shrine of Amana is on the way to the Undead Crypt, and that we don't see the archdrake or sorceress' faces, that the idea was Vendrick used golems of the Lindelt people as guards for the Demon of Song, since they would be best fit for keeping a big dark secret given their history.
Sophie reminds me a lot of Richie with her knowledge, accent, and overall enjoyable personality. Love the channel
Hi Guys! loving the podcast when I hear Sophie's study music come on my heart sings!
When I first played sunken king I assumed Velstadt only looked like he was made of piss because I was playing on the lowest possible graphics setting (because my computer's output registers within the margin of error) so I always assumed he was supposed to look golden and radiant and there were a load of particle effects I was missing... guess not
I think the only real clue here is that 'Velstadt de l'urine' doesn't use his dark attack but does cause poison. I'm guessing poison makes sense if Elana is literally conjuring him out of the poison soaked ground much like the skeletons (I can't recall if the pigs cause posion), but the lack of dark attacks suggest either Velstadt of the past or a 'memory of Velstadt' from a time before he settled down in the undead crypt.
I've heard someone suggest Velstadt's looks like it's based on Shulva knights, suggesting he's a hero from Shulva who went on to become Vendrik's hand, which I guess would make sense if Elana was conjouring from memory her idea of the greatest warrior from Shulva but I don't see the similarities in the armour at all - I guess it would make sense but for that (does Shulva count as a 'faraway land'?)
Yup... no idea... apologies for that pointless paragraph lol.
keep it up guys!
Thanks!
the ending of videos keep landing
So in Vietnamese, the word "sinh" mean born, which mean Sinh the dragon is secretly a Reborn fan.
:O yes! thank you!
6:26 hilarious how this joke was literally just true in retrospect
Dragon fire works the same way as pyromancy: a creature's waste is ignited by an internal mechanism, shown with the Spitfire Spear. The reason Sihn was full of poison is because his/her flame went out. When Yorgh stabbed the dragon it provided the ventilation needed to expel the stored waste. Yorgh seems to have been right about the power of dragon's 'blood' in that Sihn's poison seems to have seeped up into Harvest Valley, where Mytha is using it to build her kingdom. I mean nevermind, nothing in this game connects to itself or anything else obviously where else do we hear singing being used to generate a magical passivism field no where clearly I'm so glad everyone figured this game out two weeks after release and never thought about it again.
Sihn definitively wasn't listening to the singing. We first meet the dragon at the very top of the cave when we first enter, as far from the song as possible. She then relocates to somewhere else. It isn't until we enter the Sanctum itself that Sihn enters the Sanctum.
The Lindelt Archdrake Sect is descended from/allied with Shulva. Sihn is the Archdrake. The Lindelt Sect seems to have control of Amana.
When we beat Elana we get the Flower Skirt and the Pharros Mask. The flower skirt, which reflects a 'young, healthy' Elana, describes a traveling troubadour who was seeking a powerful patron, presumably Sunken. The Pharros Mask would seem to indicate that the contraptions of Shulva were created by Pharros, and that Pharros was probably betrayed by Elana the Troubadour.
Elana summons a copy of Velstadt. Nadalia summons a copy of Raime.
The mural in Dragon Shrine is slightly different than the Shulva Mural.
A jester is a member of a royal court. Thomas attacks you if you approach the Imperfect. Thomas assists you if you attack Mytha. Again, not that anything in this game connects to itself, it's pure solipsistic storytelling, each area might as well be in a different universe.
Nice comment. I just have one thing to say: Raime is the true one. When you kill him he shouts "No! Nadalia"
The pharos mask is in iron passage tho
Ahhhh that last line sin says in this. Fine wine
Omg what was it?
@@SinclairLore it was along the lines of 2022 sure is off to a good start!!!!! And it sure was.. oh it was
@@alexanderchernyavskiy5011 haha
The Angelic Outline sounding extra good today hahaha
XD
Queen of shade podcast when
On Elana not being able to leave the room: she obviously had a plan for that (which was failing). She going to ride Sinh out of there! Thats why she was singing at the sanctum door, it was her equivalent of going "here kitty kitty kitty... pls come here... pls.. "
But since Sinh is shown either flying around the city or sleeping in his boss arena, he obviously did not give a heck like an actual cat and ignored her calls. Now she is hopelessly singing at the door, waving cat treats in the hope that it will one day work 😂
Well it is a mistake on her part. Ancient dragons are not animals, the oldest are on an academic level of knowledge
@@BT-ob7ve give her a brake, she is desperate
Who knows how long she was down there 😂
that ending gave me anxiety for Elden Ring. Looking forward to finding out some other armour guy with a sword was the actual final boss and thats why the story doesnt make any sense.
yay Aesir
:D
39:22 it is my or the vid just cut?
just you
The NFT stuff has not aged well... sorry for everyone that got taken advantage by that system.
From a thematic perspective you could explain Velstadt as not literally being Velstadt but a representation to say: "Look, this story keeps repeating itself." See it's actually very smart and not reusing assets when you think about it.
Dude, that’s my name 🥲
All our listeners are queens.
👋👋👋
Nfts:(
welcome to the snack covenant