6 things you need to KNOW about Thailand's new Tax rules
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- Опубликовано: 9 июн 2024
- I discuss Thailand's new tax rules, and answer 6 key questions that can help you understand the changes!
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Chapters
Intro 0:00
What is the new rule? 0:30
Who is affected? 1:26
Double tax treaties 1:43
How will taxes be collected? 2:14
Will the rule actually change? 3:08
Risk to foreigners 3:30
Policy contradictions 4:20
Why now? 4:46
What should you do? 5:24
For entertainment purposes only.
This is not legal advice.
I was going to get a 20 year Thai Elite visa after I sold my house next year for 30K USD. They changed that dramatically when they went up. Now I'm at the point where I think I will divide my time maybe with 3-4 countries each year. I'll probably just make Cambo my main office and just visit other countries from there. Too much is going on in Thailand now at this point.
you can still get the 10 year but yes the price increase was insane. Moving 3-4 times per year is fun when you are young but at 30-40+, it gets tiring and people generally just want to have a home base for 6months +
@@magicfire1 I can do that in Cambo. I’ll be 54 when I get there. I can stay in Cambo and just visit other places for 2-3 weeks at a time and go back to my condo in Cambo. Just won’t spend that much time in Thailand is all.
@@magicfire1 And yes, I could. But a 10 year Prestige Visa in Thailand is now $43K USD. I’m not giving that kind of money away just for 10 years.
@@Paul_R1206 ah.... but you are over 50. Why dont you get a retirement visa ? it's way cheaper than an elite. Just get an agent do it for you every year.
@@magicfire1 I’ve thought about that also. But with this new tax system coming up, I’m not sure if they won’t or will tax me on the $22,000 USD or $800,000 THB that they require for a retirement visa. I may have to pay $30K USD for a visa for what they may or may not tax me once I transfer money into one of their banks. It’s just too much uncertainty right now. I can go to Cambo and just pay $360 USD without making a big bank deposit and live there each year as long as I pay them for my E-Visa.
It should only be Thai nationals that pay tax in Thailand, as foreigners spend big when they are here, as a tourist or as long term visas….
I think they would take more money into the economy with that approach.
Thanks mate, this is the only logical rational video out of tens and tens of RUclips videos. Spot on!!
Thank you for the kind words! Much appreciated!
This is perhaps the first honest reading of the new Thai tax law that I have seen on youtube. While it is true that many countries have double taxation agreements with Thailand, it is also true that the Thai government could make life for expatriots quite uncomfortable, like having to hire Thai tax attorneys every year to file tax returns, with a very strong onus on the farang to prove that the money being brought into the country is indeed after tax money. Since money is fungible, and transferred between brokerage and bank accounts regularly, it could prove quite difficult for farang, not to mention quite expensive and time consuming, in trying to prove that funds brought into Thailand, are indeed after tax Dollars. The potential scenario's that could eventuate with the implementation of this new tax law are numerous, and the way the Thai tax authority applies this law could also be inconsistent and/or overly onerous. The fact that the Bank of Thailand rolled out their CBDC pilot program this past summer, should also be of concern to anyone retired in or contemplating retirement to Thailand. Having some knowledge of how Thailand comes up with laws that effect expats, and then either does not enforce them or enforces them inconsistently, concerns me as well, and since this new tax law could be far more expensive to expats as opposed to some new reporting law or increase in Visa fess ect., that are more of just a nuisance than anything, is really concerning. I have a bad feeling that the new Thai government might have just shot themselves in the foot with the rollout of this new provision, and should they not modify or at least clarify this new law over the coming months, then they will not only be seeing many full time expats leave Thailand, but those wealthier retirees that the Thai government claims they want to come to Thailand, might very well just take Thailand off their list of potential countries to retire to list. To make matters worse, should there be an exodus of foreign retirees from Thailand, along with very few new retirees coming into Thailand due to this new law, it might take the government many years to change this law, since no government official will want to lose face and admit they were wrong in implementing such a law. For the sake of the expat population in Thailand and the thousands of Thai businesses who make their living from them, I hope that someone in the Thai government has an economics degree from a decent university, and can see the folly and unintended consequences of this law, before it is fully implemented in the new year, and winds up convincing someone in power to either scrap it, or at the very least make it clear as to precisely how this would be implemented in regards to foreign nationals retired in the Kingdom.
Thank you so much for the kind words. I agree with your perspective. Hopefully there has been some pushback from people with more influence than typically occurs in the random paperwork add-on farang policies. As it stands, here we are…January 1, and without any clarity. Fingers crossed!
Unfortunately your therory is flawed. Once you make it to expensive or to difficult the rich or foreigners will use every method possible to reduce their tax burden. Tax foreigners just a small percent and make it easy and many will be okay. If the Revenue Department does not publish what the rules, laws and changes are in the next month or so most will skip being a Tax Resident for 2024, make necessary changes.
Nice one mate! Good information.
Thanks for the kind words!
Thanks Cal for useful info. I heard about this proposal in September. Its good to be aware and know what to expect. The TM30 example resonates - know what you mean there. It can be sometimes a bit of a hassle and struggle to live longer in Thailand but it is still worth it at the end of the day. Just requires lots of patience and determination, but can be done. Keep it up bro.
Exactly. It's just small inconveniences and best to just accept how things operate and go with the flow! Thanks!
Lucky me i have enough munny in Thailand for all of 2024 .........no need to wire money into my account from overseas........aka wait and see where this goes ........or i go in 2025
It’s a good plan 👌
How much?
Good video, Cal! I guess we just have to wait and see what happens. However, be aware that the double tax agreement has some different wordings from country to country. And these countries might have different rules. In Scandinavian countries for instance, the rules are already that you must pay taxes in the country you spend more than 180 days in (2 years in a row). And you must report moving to this country if so. For most, this means you will pay lower taxes in total, since the taxes in Thailand are pretty low. If you are over 65, you will start paying taxes only from 400k a year (of what you bring into Thailand), and even higher if you have a familiy, kid and wife here. Or other deductables. So this new tax law will have no changes for these countries` residents.
However, what all double tax agreements have in common, is that no one will have to pay taxes in both countries, of course. You will be reimbursed once a year from your home country, just like these mentioned Scandinavian countries are doing now (Norway, Denmark etc.). I suggest everyone reads carefully what their double tax agreement actually says. So those agreements do not necessarily mean that you won`t pay taxes in Thailand, far from it. It might mean that you will end up not paying in your own country. And that may in fact benefit you. This also goes for pensions, I see there are some confusion about that too.
Anyways, we will wait and see how far Thailand wants to go with this.
Thanks for the input! This was my understanding as well…there shouldn’t be any significant changes, but the lack of clarity around collection and reporting could make for additional paperwork annoyances. This is something foreigners are pretty familiar with whenever a new law comes up 😂
So do retirees from 61 countries listed need required file Thai income tax? If they do, it's a game changer. They have to be explicit about stating NOT REQUIRED so there is no ambiguity.
Yeah, I think we need to wait and see how it gets implemented. Very little information for such a large upcoming change.
I will be using my HSBC UK bank card here instead. No more wire money to Thailand. Problem solved.
Great plan. Lots of banks offer cards that cover foreign currency transactions. Simple solution!
Which banks do not charge 150 THB per withdrawal?@@thebangkokguide
It depends which country you are from?
@@thebangkokguide Switzerland
Aha. Unfortunately I'm not familiar with Swiss banks. US banks like Chase offer good traveler cards. The UK and Australia also have some good options. Do a quick search on traveler cards that are available in Switzerland. You may have a similar option.
It's kind of wired, as until now there are no details about it and this should start in 5 weeks... I just ask myself how a country like Thailand can achieve this, if you consider that in the main immigration office in Chaeng Watthana, you still see piles of papers and on every visa request you have to show the same documents again and again...
This is what made me think it could be a push to get wealthy Thais to repatriate offshore money which props up the value of the baht during a spending bonanza with all the promised giveaways. Frankly I don’t think it’s possible to actually implement anything on this timeline. Worst case is another pile of paperwork hurled at everyone.
Nothing to worry about
Let’s hope so! I just play the wait and see game 😅
Thailand isn't crazy. Tourism money means alot to them
Good job
Thank you 🙏
Good video, i just heard a foreigner panic about this and lots of people that never lived abroad do not, but i guess if you're living on a pension and already being taxed in your home country there is no worry if there is a tax agreement, the other issue is that under international law if you pay you are a tax resident in a country it automatically makes you a legal resident with all the benefits which means after 5 years you're entitled to becoming a Citizen with even more benefits......
I think this is gonna strand somewhere in the gulf of Thailand.
Thanks for the kind words! I'm not sure if the legal residency will grant any benefits in Thailand. I've been a tax paying legal resident for 8 years... obtaining citizenship is a whole different process here. Doable, but different. I wouldn't panic about anything. Things often get announced here and then slowly fade away as the complexity of implementation becomes apparent. 50/50 that happens here! Cheers
I heard today that you wont get a visa without a tin number or extend it anymore. is this true?
I don’t understand how they will be able to track money deposited in foreign bank accounts??
Yep. It doesn’t seem there is much concrete information available…despite it supposedly being the policy since January.
I think Thailand is no longer a place for us expats to call home . This has seriously demonstrated thy are very unstable with such a serious thing as taxes . Who KNOWS what else they could come up with in the future . Me personally now will NEVER purchase any property here or anything else for that matter . I’ll just visit from time to time . But yeah , it’s time to say good bye
There are definitely always risks of random policies here. Let’s see what happens!
What qualifactions do you have and do you have the required work permits to be sharing financial advice in Thailand?
You don't need a work permit to comment on a news issue pal. Clearly you don't have any qualifications in common sense.
I request to see your clown college qualifications due to the idiocy of your question.
@@thebangkokguide Oh yes you do...I would suggest you go do a bit of research on it before you get yourself in grief.
@@BangkokBurbs sure thing pal! Keep up the good work!
If I paid 27.5% capital gains tax and I want to spend over 6 months in Thailand do I have to pay even more taxes just to bring that money in and spend it there?
It's still very unclear how the law will play out. We will need to wait until tax season to know what exactly is happening.
If I’m an ExPat with VA benefits, and SSDI, which are tax-free in the US, will I be taxed if I move to Thailand and if so, how much?
I believe that the double tax treaty specifically exempts VA benefits and SSDI…how the policy is actually being implemented is still unclear, but you should be okay. That being said, I’m not a tax lawyer and it might be useful to consult one for your specific case! Cheers
Does this tax law affect people who invest in real estate in thailand ? I dont plan on staying in Thailand... yet
It's still unclear how it is being implemented. It seems everyone needs to wait for visa renewal to see what happens.
I really hope that that 180 day rule stays. I plan to live there half of the time.
That one is unlikely to change! Should be fine!
How will a digital nomad declare tax. In thailand a person cant work on a tourist visa or student visa. Because if a digital nomad declares their income they are confessing to working. So I guess all the digital nomads cant live more than 180 days in a year in thailand then?
It’s all very confusing. I think it’s best to wait and see what happens. For digital nomads, the visa system is quite difficult if staying over 180 days already!
Will they tax a lawsuit settlement
If it’s been taxed in your home country already, then it shouldn’t be taxed again.
Go Vietnam young man.
This is a good option, if you find a decent price place to stay it seems much higher than Bangkok but good and beer is half price
Both beautiful countries. Just spent some time there a couple of months ago!
Another unqualified vlogger posted an opinion as the official policy. Proposed changes are one thing. Implementing (tracking) and collecting taxes is another. Rich Thais will find ways to not pay taxes! TM30 is not required for leaving the country! They are required ANYTIME you leave your residence for more than 24 hours!
Yeah I think it’s best to wait and see what happens. Even when an official policy is announced, it’s still best to wait until you see news stories about the actual implementation. It can all be pretty haphazard here. The problem with the RUclips world is that more absolute and extreme titles and messaging can tend to get more clicks. I think that can be problematic. The TM30 is an interesting one. Initially it was necessary everytime you stay somewhere other than your home residence. But the actual monitoring and implementation is still a bit of a mystery to me. I have a friend who works here, and they only asked him for it this year during a 90 day report. He wasn’t doing it for years. Meanwhile other friends had significant problems from day 1 because landlords refused to do it. I’ve been asked to provide it a couple of times, during either visa renewal or 90 day reports…but there didn’t seem to be any clear reason during the 90 day reports. Policy implementation can definitely be a bit of a mystery here.
what about crypto tax?
That’s going to be an interesting one to see..:used to be a crypto bro haven in last run. This one maybe not so much!
maybe problem has solved if go first calender year thailand and stay less 180 day, and move all money to thai bank account, then go out near calender year to thailand and go back to thailand next calender year and live thats own money free no go tax if not has same calender year more than max 180 day in thailand, and go back next year and stay live full reitree in thailand, and not move money to in thailand, maybe only move retiree salary income and you country have double tax not need pay retiree salary any tax to thailand again because has payed at you own country all retiree salary tax. im only worry what papers need take to thailand can show all my money has payed tax my home country then not need pay thailand any tax.
I think that’s the main question…how much documentation they might want. Should find out later this year.
I havnt watched the video but I can tell there is no new law yet
Yeah, I discuss the proposed change, with a tentative implementation on January 1.
One thing the Thai government need to know about my money 🖕
Indeed..
Simp tax
1:52 isn't necessarily true in all cases - if both countries have a claim to tax the income, and the Thai tax liability is higher than your home country, then taxes paid in your home country would be a credit against your Thai liability - you'd still need to pay the difference
Good point. Thanks for the input!
@@thebangkokguide its a rare case though so your general idea is correct - I was just in this position once as I had US investment income which was taxed at a lower rate, and had to pay the difference in Thailand.
Yeah, it's a useful insight as it definitely could also make an impact on income taxes as well. I'm just waiting to see how it all plays out. I've been here long enough to observe the policy process in action. Always a bit of a rollercoaster!
@@thebangkokguide Thailand is indeed an endless whirlwind.
But the tax rate is higher in Thailand, so most likely you will need to pay taxes.
This is correct…still waiting to see what happens. Already past the implementation date and no new info
One of the poorest run countries I've lived.
That is why is it good.
Thai tax is all noise! NOBODY PAYS TAXES ON BORROWED MONEY! so just use your foreign credit card and pay it with your international sourced income
A line of credit works
Now that’s a good solution! Thanks for the input!
yeah try buying a condo with credit card.
Great plan, until.... visa renewal. What's your plan when Immigration asks for substantiation of income and taxes paid on that income? 🤔
Proposed Law.
Nothing else is real.
Nobody knows what will happen.
A lot of clickbait.
It’s not a proposed law. It was a change to the enforcement of existing laws and it is already in effect. The rule change technically came into effect on January 1.
@@thebangkokguide show us the Royal Gazette Decree.
It’s not a new law. It’s a change in the enforcement of the existing law. Hence no Royal Gazette Decree.
There is no new law, click bait
Lol what?
There is no new law. There was a half baked mention of a potential new law and then silence, spot the difference?@@thebangkokguide
@@dw3514 it’s literally set to change on January 1, 2024 and received piles of media coverage. Discussing the potential change isn’t clickbait. I don’t think you understand the definition of clickbait. 🤷♂️
@@thebangkokguide He's right though, there's no new law. The January 1 2024 change is a change to the interpretation of existing law. Not the change to the law itself. There's an important difference.
What’s the important difference as it pertains to expats living here? Genuinely curious!
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