People forget that garmin is not your coach, its your support device. You can use it to guide you. And its pretty good estimation over longer period of time
This is so interesting. Garmin is very useful, and helps me to focus on stress, less drinking etc. But sometimes the data is completely "off" compared to real conditions. So instead of feeling bad, I try to "allow to disagree". Like when Garmin tells me to take 93 hours of recovery after a 1 hour training session with friends.
I recently upgraded to the Vivoavtive 5 which has HRV, Body battery and Sleep Score and I am experiencing exactly what you are talking about. I'm becoming fixated on the data and I think that is stressing me out, which is making the data worse. I think I am going to take your advice and take a step back from focusing so closely on the day to day data and just listen to my body. Thanks for the pep talk. Cheers!
@@SirRasor because it is data. You can feel bad and you can judge what is wrong by data. Are you sleeping bad, working too hard, hrv is bad may be you are sick. And how are you performing, is performance getting better? You can feel fast or slow but you can also see how fast you are by data. Can you get it?
Good video and i think you made the right decision for you. I will personally keep it. 1) it helped me so much imoroving my sleep. 2) almost stopped drinking and other unhealthy habits. 3) it helped me feel my body more. It sounds a bit unexpected, but i prefer charts and numbers to understand my feelings 4) i wouldn't be able to do zone 2 running without it and keep it slow enough 5) for me it is really hard to increase volume gradually and things like training load help a lot. 6) i don't really care that much about the metrics that i see. It is logging so i don't have to keep attention to it. If i want to understand some correlation later, i can return back 7) seeing the progress on some metrics is quite encouraging for me 8) when i see it go down, I know i have to make adjustments to lifestyle.
I don't know if I'm lucky or what but for me, my watch always reflects perfectly on how I feel during the given day. Not sure if it's because I always train with HR strap or if it's because I update my zones in weekly bases (and weight in every morning) but I find it extremely accurate. Hell, even my VO2max is spot on to one that I do in a lab test on treadmill. One thing I do agree with though - Training Readiness can be telling funky stuff if your HRV is off-balance (eg. you were sick and the 7 day average has not stabilized yet)
I get what you're saying. It's just like weighing yourself everyday, can be useful for some people, but lead to eating disorders for others. I'm not emotionally attached to my Garmin data, but do track 24/7. I don't really pay much attention to 'training readiness', or my sleep score, for me HRV, stress and RHR are the most important. Those 3 metrics are what helped discover my thyroid disease, as they got out of control long before I started to have actual symptoms.
I fond my 965 very good. The hrv and stress detection is very good. During a shift as train driver I can see on the stress when I drive a train more likely to have faults. Two times this year I have tried to do hard workouts when the body battery was almost 0 and ended up sick both times. I travel a lot in work and sleep in different hotels with different beds, heat and light conditions. The sleep quality varies a lot but every time I come home to my own dark bedroom with a good bed my sleep is always of the charts and stress very low. It detectes this very good. I don’t always follow the training recommendations but if the hrv is down over a few days you better make adjustments. And also stress is very hard to pick up on yourself. That’s why people hit the wall because they didn’t realize it before it’s to late. It’s a very good tool if you use it right
Sounds like you've really benefitted from it and found it useful-glad to hear! As you might notice in the comments there are some really polarised views on this topic!
I found myself in the same boat. I used to wear my Garmin 24/7. However, I was finding that the sleep data was making me paranoid about my sleep quality. Also, if my HRV was low, it would almost set me up for a bad day. I still use my Garmin to track training, but don't wear at night. I prefer listening to my body.
My Garmin 955 is pretty much accurate for most of the metrics but I agree with you, overtime waking up and anxiously going through my morning report affected me more psychologically than it did physiogically. I've since ditched them for the last couple of weeks and I really feel much better every morning!
I work in counseling psychology and these metrics make me think about psychology tests. We always take the raw data with a grain of salt and it is critical put them into context of the patient's situation and think about the biaises that might have effected the results. Thank you for the video :)
Some great points made here. My enduro 3 is pretty spot on tbf. I find that it guides me to think about how I actually feel. With a tendency to over-do things, the watch has definitely put structure into my training. Personally the purchase has changed my life! Got me off the sofa into training for a 50k ultra. But i definitely agree that the metrics should be a prompt to check in with your body, not to be taken too seriously. Although it tells me I'm 37yrs and I'm actually 42yrs, so maybe I'm being biased 😂
Very good video - I did it few times just coz I wanted to be sure that I was doing right thing and every time was the same conclusion, better without it. in the last 4 years with my daily basis tracking just engaging in analysing statistics been giving me more (headache) focus on statistics than actually training.
i agree. i hate waking up in the middle of the night worrying about my sleep score lol. my body battery is never 100%, even though i wake up feeling 100%. at this point, i've been putting in more effort to defeat the garmin algorithm. i tried pace pro, and it gave me better sleep scores, while garmin always gives me fair scores. but i will say, the estimates are pretty good. after a few weeks of activity, garmin said my vo2 max was 44. i went to a sports lab a few months later and got the same exact score. garmin also gave me very bad sleep scores when i was eating late, going to bed at 4am, and waking up at 12pm. when i stopped eating so late, and starting going to sleep at 10/11pm, and waking up around 6-7am, my sleep score improved, and i actually do feel better. garmin isn't really designed for athletes. it's more so for casuals. i usually run 40-50 miles a week. when i tried garmin's daily suggested workout, it tapered me down to 20 miles. i also never take its advice for rest days. in my opinion, you should never have a day where you do absolutely nothing. you should at least walk a few miles. continuous blood flow is always best for the legs and heart. however, after my half marathon, garmin suggested i do nothing for two days. i went and walked anyway, and i think garmin was right. i was sweating more than usual, and obviously not recovered.
There is also the question whether Garmin measuring Resting Heart Rate, while you are sleeping at night, is the right number, or whether it should be a number that is measured during a lull in daytime activity.
I’ve found that since I’ve moved up from less expensive to more expensive and complicated garmin watches, the best guide to my fitness, health and recovery is the rhr number.
I found this out the hard way. I started reading Marco Altini's posts a while back on morning measurements so it made moving away from Garmin easier. It was turning me a little neurotic. I only have one question in the morning - can I train and take on todays life/activities/chores. The morning measurement achieves that. I've moved onto Apple because of the recent vitals app and trusting the accuracy of their data. That adds to the above because rather than being concerned about the exact readings it'll notify for me if anything seems odd - which could indicate an illness brewing, which a morning HRV meausrement or subjective feel won't identify.
Interesting discussion thanks. Interesting data on the firstbeat website which underpins the Garmin sleep data compares it to polysomnography and it’s not bad
After many years of following these metrics didn't lead to better running, I've been moving to training to PRE and paying attention to my HR on runs that week. It's made running more enjoyable.
Excellent video, so true, the metrics are so off that it is rediculous. I have called Garmin regarding the data being off and their commentary was the data was Estimated. I rest my case.
Agree 100% My fitness has dropped for the last 3 months since I started following training recommendations based on my sleep and HRV. I am done with it.
I just switched off the morning report. In General I agree for me it's important to take a step back every now and then and get not to obsessed with the data. BUT just now it happened that I had massive drops in my metrics although I did not feel too bad but a little bit stressed. But both my night stress level and day level had risen dramatically. So I think you shouldn't be to worried about the day to day ups and downs and go with your body awareness but if metrics deviate dramatically out of a sudden and don't go back to baseline over the course of a couple of days you should think about it and implement some changes. I wouldn't have known without the data.
Interesting topic. I think in your case you were relying on the garmin info too much to the point you were trying to influence it. For me personally i use it as a gauge, for instance if i ran poorly id look at the data and see if there was something off. Training rediness low or high stress throughout the day etc. I think where i find garmin quite spot on is the peaking training status when it appears. Im always at my best so something must be accurate amongst all the data if it all lines up at a particular point. If say i go on a bender my garmin 265 does seem to pick up that lack of sleep/hangover and takes a few days to return to normal. So seems good there as well.
I wouldn't say I was trying to influence it, more I was just very aware of it. And this comes from someone who actually uses some of these metrics with athletes that I work with. I guess it's just the way my brain is wired! Good to hear your experiences with it!
I switched to Coros for my current marathon training block because of all of this, I do love Garmin but FOR ME all the data would dictate how I felt for my day too much, morning report, low HRV or Sleep Score, even if I felt good I would think, huh I will have a rough day or run etc...For some the data is probably great but it was influencing me too much.
I've known for a long time that Garmin metrics are a guess at best, as the scales tell me my BMI is going up and down directly correlated with weight, not muscle. The watch does the same, just best guesses based on inaccurate data. I believe the demonstrated metrics such as actual heart rate, weight, and time, but use everything else as a VERY rough guide.
“Body Mass Index” as a metric inherently works exactly how you described, regardless of what device you’re using. If your weight goes up, your BMI increases. If your muscle goes up, your BMI increases. It’s a flawed metric to keep track of, but it literally isn’t a “guess at best” lol. Same with HRV and RHR - those aren’t “guesses” or “inaccurate,” and they establish a really solid baseline understanding of health and daily wellness
I was having exactly same experience. I am 62 and do a lot of running, have a strong health. Initially I enjoyed the extra data, but I got confused and began to make me worried , did I need to relax or could I put pressure on my training. Same time I was trying to do zone 2 training but it also seem like garmin messed zone estimate based on the wrong sleep and hrv data. Since September I have just skipped these metrics and my training is great - doing 48 vo2 max 😆
I stress over the stress and see my body battery draining all day before I can exercise in the evening after work. Then I stress I won’t re-charge enough for the next day even with enough sleep. HRV well that just seems to go low and low all the time so I’m starting to ignore it. I wear my watch 24/7 #stress 😂
Same here, the only Garmin metric I pay attention to is sleep. And I don’t use the recommendations, I budget at least 8 hours and like to see the different cycles of sleep the next morning.
I love my Garmin, but I’m also realistic about what it does for me. I use a 935 and an HRM Pro chest strap. The amount of data is unreal, and most of it--for me-is unusable in the moment or unusable within 24 hours. HR measures with the chest strap is awesome. My GPS is accurate to within .01 miles consistently and I’ve measured it against a distance measuring wheel. Sleep has been an above average metric. A couple metrics that were valuable many months after the fact were ground contact time and Left-right strike balance since I had broken my ankle and to assess whether or not my biomechanics were different after healing, I could compare old data to new data. The data is pretty unusable in the moment, but great to have for comparison later if you need it. The elevation is complete garbage….rarely accurate. Distance travelled when using the treadmill is always bad. Training status--for me--is absolutely laughable. I can go from unproductive to peaking to detraining in a 4 day time span….I literally use this metric for sheer entertainment value because it means absolutely nothing. VO2 max is also a joke. Though I have never measured it in a lab, my VO2 max from Garmin has jumped 8 points before after one hard steady effort…..and that steady effort was part of a normal training block where I was training 6-7 days per week. Again--I love my Garmin but I know what doesn’t apply to me and my type of endurance training--and that’s ok!
Your watch was developed in 2017 - 7 years ago. That means that the heart rate sensor was also developed about 7 years ago. The VO2 Max and Training Status algorithms are not going to be the same on a 7 year old watch as they will be on one from the past 2-3 years with newer, more dynamic technology. This is like owning an iPhone 8 and saying that the battery/camera are trash and don’t work for you as a photographer 🤦
@@aaaaooooii///except I also run with people that have all the latest watches, and not just Garmin. The Garmin users either turn off Training Status altogether or laugh at it like I do. I also run with people that I can smoke in a 5k, but there VO2 max is measured 8 points higher…it’s just wrong. And so on. Sure, i have an old watch with old tech, but the advances according to those I know that have the newer stuff let me know that we aren’t talking giant leaps here….its baby steps at best. HR with the strap and GPS awesome. Everything else is take it or leave it….and that’s fine….i still love it. But anyone that thinks their VO2 max is 62 and can barely break 18:00 in a 5k is just using their Garmin as an ego stroker.
I've stopped using the metrics, but mainly because it throws a wobbler with training load. I swim with form goggles now, so it doesn't pull through swim workouts to garmin. And then they updated the algorithm so my bike computer doesn't add to the load on my watch. So now it thinks my runs are always 'unproductive' because my watch only considers that
Record your heart rate as a Cardio activity while you swim to get the training effect, and set your bike computer as the Primary Training Device in the app.
@@aaaaooooii I don't pool swim with a watch now, and my bike computer doesn't have that capability because it's an older model, but it still works so I won't be replacing it
Garmin is guessing? I think you should look at how regressions are done and how they are utilised by garmin. It will work for majority of users. You feel like Garmin guesses is bot objective.
For me data points are too general and not reliable for small analysis and the trends provide big picture. However, the training readiness seemed always off.
For me the metrics never really work out. Bad sleep equals great sleep score and otherwise. Even HRV is influenced by breathing and many more things, so basically useless. I only check my resting heart rate. If it is too much elevated I know I am fatigued. Muscle soreness has never fooled me.
Unfo I'm not a sleep expert, but my basic recommendations would be sleep hygiene (less screen time before bed, relaxing environment etc), no caffeine after 12 noon, no alcohol, consistent bed time
For me, close to 50 this is just another tool, knowing a lot about tech and physiology from a long life as an athlete, coach and just being alive, I love the Garmin. But I also bought a fenix 7s for my son, for his 15th birthday, he got stressed out from the data and monitoring, cause, he is 15 and his life has been around tech, and hence feeling that tech is always right. I KNOW if my Garmin is wrong if I was calm during my sleep,and I still drank too much alchohol last night, but somehow I still slept well and got a good scoore.... but how are a teen supposed to know that this is just a approximation and not the absolute truth.... This is valid for any tool. Garmin does not claim to be medical correct.... But it is great fun to use if you have some experience.... then the garmin watches can be great as a second point of view. And finally... my experience is that my watch is REALLY good at analyzing my current fatigue and stress. Its quite remarkable. But still I have enough life experience to think for myself. My 15 year old son doesn´t... and that is a problem , and I´ve told him to take the watch off and just chill....
I have a Friend who is into the Hawaii Competitions, and does Competitions that are not even known to anyone. He’s wearing a Rolex. I’m on a Garmin Tactix because I think it’s helpful, but I’m not even running Marathons. So these measurements don’t have much impact on me.
Sorry but this video is all over the place. Firstly you can’t mix validity and reliability. These are two different criteria in science that mean totally different things. You are actually talking mostly about reliability. Then you are talking about is “guesswork”. Garmin actually correlates a whole lot of stuff with their watches. Meaning they have real data to back up their estimation. You can’t really evaluate how good their estimation is. Third is that you are rather describing personal insecurities that you might want to talk about with a psychologist. My take on Garmin devices: They are accurate enough to determine stress and they can aid very well to manage stress and recovery. Take everything with a grain of salt. I even use them with clients in psychotherapy to mange their stress levels. They work fine for that purpose. If you are an aspiring athlete I would advise you to use even more data and try to aggregate it to get a clearer picture. Either use other devices or other apps to analyze your data. Thank you for reading my lengthy thoughts!
Hey, thanks for your input - always appreciate comments! I'm quite aware of the differences and I am talking about both of these things here. The main issue is that their estimations ARE estimations, and they are estimations based off estimated data. That is a huge issue which increases the potential for lots of different errors. The whole purpose of this video is to encourage athletes to use their data but with a grain of salt. Have a read through the comments on this video and you will see this is a big problem for many users, both from a psychological aspect and having reliable AND valid data!
@@NutritionTriathlonWell. Every measurement is an estimation my friend. Question is how good are they. If you want to question their reliability you should come up with more than just your personal experience or feelings. I’d like to see some data. It’s just all in all a weak argument you are making. And yeah. Totally understand that people overuse and have overly confidence in the metrics Garmin provides. Use them wisely…
@@velosoph02No, that is not true and you are missing a key point here 🙂 heart rate is not an estimation and neither is heart rate variability. They are actually being measured and have high reliability and validity. However, stress score, essentially what your daily heart rate variability means for you, IS an estimation that Garmin has created. Likewise, Garmin has to estimate your sleep, and it is creating an estimation of your sleep score - again, something they have created. They are then creating an estimation - training readiness - based on the other estimated scores that they have created. These are in-house scores that they are creating that have no standardisation or scientific backing via papers or trials. However, something like heart rate variability in its truest sport fashion (morning resting reading) DOES have research investigating it.
Those metrics work very well for me. All metrics have errors for all devices but are useful if you know how to interpret them. The video is useless and very very biased.
Garmin data is nonsense. I’m 69 and my Garmin recommends me to do sprints at 5.10 miles pace. I could only do 5.30 miles 30 years ago at my peak HR readings are miles out compared to Polar & Apple
It is not nonsense. It may be for you, most probably the shape of hour wrist or skin characteristics or whatever else means your HR is not measured properly and after that everything will be off. For most people it's pretty accurate, especially newer models.
@@yianpap6093 I use an either a chest strap or an arm strap for runs. I tried using the wrist stats on my Garmin for recovery & sleep tracking but the sensor on a £600 Garmin is miles off
@@Neilveg It's strange to me that someone who is 69 hasn't learned to make measured statements, but there you go. I have a Suunto 5, a Coros Pace 3 and a Garmin 965. I've tested all of them for a month (running) together with a Polar chest strap for reference. The Coros and the Suunto have been pretty much useless for HR. The 965 is pretty much perfect. Most reviewers agree with my findings. I don't buy Apple, but their HR is supposed to be very good indeed. So maybe your Garmin is defective, or an old model, or who knows. But you cannot be talking generally like you do.
Guys, stick to your metrics as an adult does. It is objektive data and it makes no sense what this fidget nutrition guy tells you. Get the data and decide...
If you want to measure your heart rate (cadence and other parameters such as power) quite accurately, you need to use external sensors, because the built-in optical heart rate monitor is rather inaccurate, especially during intense physical exercise.
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People forget that garmin is not your coach, its your support device.
You can use it to guide you. And its pretty good estimation over longer period of time
Yep, would agree 🙂
This is so interesting. Garmin is very useful, and helps me to focus on stress, less drinking etc. But sometimes the data is completely "off" compared to real conditions. So instead of feeling bad, I try to "allow to disagree". Like when Garmin tells me to take 93 hours of recovery after a 1 hour training session with friends.
I recently upgraded to the Vivoavtive 5 which has HRV, Body battery and Sleep Score and I am experiencing exactly what you are talking about. I'm becoming fixated on the data and I think that is stressing me out, which is making the data worse.
I think I am going to take your advice and take a step back from focusing so closely on the day to day data and just listen to my body.
Thanks for the pep talk. Cheers!
Metrics are in line with how i feel for me. So i stick with them.
Glad to hear! 🙂
if so, then why bother wearing it and reading the data?
@@SirRasor because it is data. You can feel bad and you can judge what is wrong by data. Are you sleeping bad, working too hard, hrv is bad may be you are sick. And how are you performing, is performance getting better? You can feel fast or slow but you can also see how fast you are by data.
Can you get it?
Good video and i think you made the right decision for you. I will personally keep it.
1) it helped me so much imoroving my sleep.
2) almost stopped drinking and other unhealthy habits.
3) it helped me feel my body more. It sounds a bit unexpected, but i prefer charts and numbers to understand my feelings
4) i wouldn't be able to do zone 2 running without it and keep it slow enough
5) for me it is really hard to increase volume gradually and things like training load help a lot.
6) i don't really care that much about the metrics that i see. It is logging so i don't have to keep attention to it. If i want to understand some correlation later, i can return back
7) seeing the progress on some metrics is quite encouraging for me
8) when i see it go down, I know i have to make adjustments to lifestyle.
Really pleased to hear this - it sounds like you've used the details to review your own situation, which is exactly what I would encourage!
I don't know if I'm lucky or what but for me, my watch always reflects perfectly on how I feel during the given day. Not sure if it's because I always train with HR strap or if it's because I update my zones in weekly bases (and weight in every morning) but I find it extremely accurate.
Hell, even my VO2max is spot on to one that I do in a lab test on treadmill.
One thing I do agree with though - Training Readiness can be telling funky stuff if your HRV is off-balance (eg. you were sick and the 7 day average has not stabilized yet)
Same here the metrics are very much in line with how I feel.
Awesome! It sounds like it does work well for you then which is great to hear, especially if that means you can use the data well!
thanx for sharing! could you please name the model you wear, cause it depends significantly
@@SuperStrilChuk garmin forerunner 955
I get what you're saying. It's just like weighing yourself everyday, can be useful for some people, but lead to eating disorders for others. I'm not emotionally attached to my Garmin data, but do track 24/7. I don't really pay much attention to 'training readiness', or my sleep score, for me HRV, stress and RHR are the most important. Those 3 metrics are what helped discover my thyroid disease, as they got out of control long before I started to have actual symptoms.
100agree. Tough stress could also be “wrong”, but the good old RHR is always a good metric and that reflects in HRV as well;)
Yeah totally. It sounds like you've found a good balance.
I fond my 965 very good. The hrv and stress detection is very good. During a shift as train driver I can see on the stress when I drive a train more likely to have faults. Two times this year I have tried to do hard workouts when the body battery was almost 0 and ended up sick both times. I travel a lot in work and sleep in different hotels with different beds, heat and light conditions. The sleep quality varies a lot but every time I come home to my own dark bedroom with a good bed my sleep is always of the charts and stress very low. It detectes this very good.
I don’t always follow the training recommendations but if the hrv is down over a few days you better make adjustments. And also stress is very hard to pick up on yourself. That’s why people hit the wall because they didn’t realize it before it’s to late. It’s a very good tool if you use it right
Sounds like you've really benefitted from it and found it useful-glad to hear! As you might notice in the comments there are some really polarised views on this topic!
I found myself in the same boat. I used to wear my Garmin 24/7. However, I was finding that the sleep data was making me paranoid about my sleep quality. Also, if my HRV was low, it would almost set me up for a bad day. I still use my Garmin to track training, but don't wear at night. I prefer listening to my body.
Yep, sounds like the right approach to me then!
Love this, James. There is so much value in listening to your body and learning what it's telling you. During workouts and in between.
Absolutely! It's not necessary easy to do but I think it's so beneficial.
I generally feel that hrv indicates nicely how I feel, but I dont skip training cause of it
Then I guess my question is: why do you use it? 🙂
I see a pattern about higher hrv and increased fitness. Also might alter training if hrv goes way down.
My Garmin 955 is pretty much accurate for most of the metrics but I agree with you, overtime waking up and anxiously going through my morning report affected me more psychologically than it did physiogically. I've since ditched them for the last couple of weeks and I really feel much better every morning!
Makes such a difference hey? Glad to hear!
I work in counseling psychology and these metrics make me think about psychology tests. We always take the raw data with a grain of salt and it is critical put them into context of the patient's situation and think about the biaises that might have effected the results.
Thank you for the video :)
My pleasure! You're right, it's context which is key here 🙂
Some great points made here. My enduro 3 is pretty spot on tbf. I find that it guides me to think about how I actually feel. With a tendency to over-do things, the watch has definitely put structure into my training. Personally the purchase has changed my life! Got me off the sofa into training for a 50k ultra. But i definitely agree that the metrics should be a prompt to check in with your body, not to be taken too seriously. Although it tells me I'm 37yrs and I'm actually 42yrs, so maybe I'm being biased 😂
Haha, it knows how to make you feel good! Glad it's been so game-changing for you!
Thanks for saving me $500 on garmin. I will continue to listen to my body. Best advise.TY
My pleasure! Enjoy the extra $$
Very good video - I did it few times just coz I wanted to be sure that I was doing right thing and every time was the same conclusion, better without it. in the last 4 years with my daily basis tracking just engaging in analysing statistics been giving me more (headache) focus on statistics than actually training.
i agree. i hate waking up in the middle of the night worrying about my sleep score lol. my body battery is never 100%, even though i wake up feeling 100%. at this point, i've been putting in more effort to defeat the garmin algorithm. i tried pace pro, and it gave me better sleep scores, while garmin always gives me fair scores. but i will say, the estimates are pretty good. after a few weeks of activity, garmin said my vo2 max was 44. i went to a sports lab a few months later and got the same exact score. garmin also gave me very bad sleep scores when i was eating late, going to bed at 4am, and waking up at 12pm. when i stopped eating so late, and starting going to sleep at 10/11pm, and waking up around 6-7am, my sleep score improved, and i actually do feel better. garmin isn't really designed for athletes. it's more so for casuals. i usually run 40-50 miles a week. when i tried garmin's daily suggested workout, it tapered me down to 20 miles. i also never take its advice for rest days. in my opinion, you should never have a day where you do absolutely nothing. you should at least walk a few miles. continuous blood flow is always best for the legs and heart. however, after my half marathon, garmin suggested i do nothing for two days. i went and walked anyway, and i think garmin was right. i was sweating more than usual, and obviously not recovered.
Agreed. Thank you. I do get a little emotional about some alerts and have to use a critical eye and listen to my body.
Yeah, it can be hard to separate the emotion from the alerts!
There is also the question whether Garmin measuring Resting Heart Rate, while you are sleeping at night, is the right number, or whether it should be a number that is measured during a lull in daytime activity.
Absolutely!
I’ve found that since I’ve moved up from less expensive to more expensive and complicated garmin watches, the best guide to my fitness, health and recovery is the rhr number.
Nice! If it works for you then that's perfect 🙂
I found this out the hard way. I started reading Marco Altini's posts a while back on morning measurements so it made moving away from Garmin easier. It was turning me a little neurotic. I only have one question in the morning - can I train and take on todays life/activities/chores. The morning measurement achieves that.
I've moved onto Apple because of the recent vitals app and trusting the accuracy of their data. That adds to the above because rather than being concerned about the exact readings it'll notify for me if anything seems odd - which could indicate an illness brewing, which a morning HRV meausrement or subjective feel won't identify.
Sounds like you've taken a good approach to it now and have found some balance! Marco's stuff is great
Interesting discussion thanks. Interesting data on the firstbeat website which underpins the Garmin sleep data compares it to polysomnography and it’s not bad
Thank you, appreciate that! Hadn't seen that on the website, sounds interesting though
After many years of following these metrics didn't lead to better running, I've been moving to training to PRE and paying attention to my HR on runs that week. It's made running more enjoyable.
Glad to hear - I like that approach!
Excellent video, so true, the metrics are so off that it is rediculous. I have called Garmin regarding the data being off and their commentary was the data was Estimated. I rest my case.
Yeah it's a bit rubbish really, isn't it!
Agree 100% My fitness has dropped for the last 3 months since I started following training recommendations based on my sleep and HRV. I am done with it.
Ah wow, that's quite a dramatic drop!
I just switched off the morning report.
In General I agree for me it's important to take a step back every now and then and get not to obsessed with the data.
BUT just now it happened that I had massive drops in my metrics although I did not feel too bad but a little bit stressed. But both my night stress level and day level had risen dramatically. So I think you shouldn't be to worried about the day to day ups and downs and go with your body awareness but if metrics deviate dramatically out of a sudden and don't go back to baseline over the course of a couple of days you should think about it and implement some changes. I wouldn't have known without the data.
It's hard to get the balance right!
Interesting topic. I think in your case you were relying on the garmin info too much to the point you were trying to influence it.
For me personally i use it as a gauge, for instance if i ran poorly id look at the data and see if there was something off. Training rediness low or high stress throughout the day etc.
I think where i find garmin quite spot on is the peaking training status when it appears. Im always at my best so something must be accurate amongst all the data if it all lines up at a particular point.
If say i go on a bender my garmin 265 does seem to pick up that lack of sleep/hangover and takes a few days to return to normal. So seems good there as well.
I wouldn't say I was trying to influence it, more I was just very aware of it. And this comes from someone who actually uses some of these metrics with athletes that I work with. I guess it's just the way my brain is wired!
Good to hear your experiences with it!
I switched to Coros for my current marathon training block because of all of this, I do love Garmin but FOR ME all the data would dictate how I felt for my day too much, morning report, low HRV or Sleep Score, even if I felt good I would think, huh I will have a rough day or run etc...For some the data is probably great but it was influencing me too much.
Kinda crazy how much it can influence you, right? Hope the marathon training block is going well!
I would love to talk more about really low HRV over time. 😊
Would love to, and will plan this in!
I've known for a long time that Garmin metrics are a guess at best, as the scales tell me my BMI is going up and down directly correlated with weight, not muscle. The watch does the same, just best guesses based on inaccurate data. I believe the demonstrated metrics such as actual heart rate, weight, and time, but use everything else as a VERY rough guide.
“Body Mass Index” as a metric inherently works exactly how you described, regardless of what device you’re using. If your weight goes up, your BMI increases. If your muscle goes up, your BMI increases. It’s a flawed metric to keep track of, but it literally isn’t a “guess at best” lol. Same with HRV and RHR - those aren’t “guesses” or “inaccurate,” and they establish a really solid baseline understanding of health and daily wellness
Yeah, you're always going to get much more reliable data from measured rather than estimated readings!
I was having exactly same experience. I am 62 and do a lot of running, have a strong health. Initially I enjoyed the extra data, but I got confused and began to make me worried , did I need to relax or could I put pressure on my training. Same time I was trying to do zone 2 training but it also seem like garmin messed zone estimate based on the wrong sleep and hrv data. Since September I have just skipped these metrics and my training is great - doing 48 vo2 max 😆
Funny really, isn't it?! Glad you're in a better groove now, well done!
I stress over the stress and see my body battery draining all day before I can exercise in the evening after work. Then I stress I won’t re-charge enough for the next day even with enough sleep. HRV well that just seems to go low and low all the time so I’m starting to ignore it. I wear my watch 24/7 #stress 😂
Haha, a vicious circle hey? Not fun 😂
How are you going to record on Strava without the watch?
With a phone.
And if it ain't on Strava... 😂
@@NutritionTriathlon .....it doesn't count. 😅
I like the data as reference, but I just wish Garmin can produce additional devices, so I don't have to wear a ugly watch for 24/7
If you could choose a device for Garmin to create, what would it be?
Same here, the only Garmin metric I pay attention to is sleep. And I don’t use the recommendations, I budget at least 8 hours and like to see the different cycles of sleep the next morning.
Contradict yourself much?
@@johnsimoney2035 wtf are you talking about?
Personally, I have found it very unreliable for sleep!
I love my Garmin, but I’m also realistic about what it does for me. I use a 935 and an HRM Pro chest strap. The amount of data is unreal, and most of it--for me-is unusable in the moment or unusable within 24 hours. HR measures with the chest strap is awesome. My GPS is accurate to within .01 miles consistently and I’ve measured it against a distance measuring wheel. Sleep has been an above average metric. A couple metrics that were valuable many months after the fact were ground contact time and Left-right strike balance since I had broken my ankle and to assess whether or not my biomechanics were different after healing, I could compare old data to new data. The data is pretty unusable in the moment, but great to have for comparison later if you need it. The elevation is complete garbage….rarely accurate. Distance travelled when using the treadmill is always bad. Training status--for me--is absolutely laughable. I can go from unproductive to peaking to detraining in a 4 day time span….I literally use this metric for sheer entertainment value because it means absolutely nothing. VO2 max is also a joke. Though I have never measured it in a lab, my VO2 max from Garmin has jumped 8 points before after one hard steady effort…..and that steady effort was part of a normal training block where I was training 6-7 days per week. Again--I love my Garmin but I know what doesn’t apply to me and my type of endurance training--and that’s ok!
Your watch was developed in 2017 - 7 years ago. That means that the heart rate sensor was also developed about 7 years ago. The VO2 Max and Training Status algorithms are not going to be the same on a 7 year old watch as they will be on one from the past 2-3 years with newer, more dynamic technology. This is like owning an iPhone 8 and saying that the battery/camera are trash and don’t work for you as a photographer 🤦
@@aaaaooooii///except I also run with people that have all the latest watches, and not just Garmin. The Garmin users either turn off Training Status altogether or laugh at it like I do. I also run with people that I can smoke in a 5k, but there VO2 max is measured 8 points higher…it’s just wrong. And so on.
Sure, i have an old watch with old tech, but the advances according to those I know that have the newer stuff let me know that we aren’t talking giant leaps here….its baby steps at best. HR with the strap and GPS awesome. Everything else is take it or leave it….and that’s fine….i still love it. But anyone that thinks their VO2 max is 62 and can barely break 18:00 in a 5k is just using their Garmin as an ego stroker.
Sounds like a whole load of ups and downs with your watch!
Nobody said Garmin is perfect, but keeping track of your health and fitness is somewhat important.
I guess it depends on what your goal is 🙂
Never slept better after ditching my Garmin watch
Kinda crazy hey?
@@NutritionTriathlon Yes! Never would have thought that tbh
I've stopped using the metrics, but mainly because it throws a wobbler with training load. I swim with form goggles now, so it doesn't pull through swim workouts to garmin. And then they updated the algorithm so my bike computer doesn't add to the load on my watch. So now it thinks my runs are always 'unproductive' because my watch only considers that
Record your heart rate as a Cardio activity while you swim to get the training effect, and set your bike computer as the Primary Training Device in the app.
@@aaaaooooii I don't pool swim with a watch now, and my bike computer doesn't have that capability because it's an older model, but it still works so I won't be replacing it
Yeah I've had similar problems using my wahoo as well. Unfortunately the eco system is a bit rubbish at times!
Garmin is guessing? I think you should look at how regressions are done and how they are utilised by garmin. It will work for majority of users.
You feel like Garmin guesses is bot objective.
For me data points are too general and not reliable for small analysis and the trends provide big picture. However, the training readiness seemed always off.
I think the trends can be useful, yep!
For me the metrics never really work out. Bad sleep equals great sleep score and otherwise. Even HRV is influenced by breathing and many more things, so basically useless.
I only check my resting heart rate. If it is too much elevated I know I am fatigued. Muscle soreness has never fooled me.
If used correctly HRV can be good, but the way Garmin measures it.. Not so good! Sounds like you've got things covered
any tips for more sleep time (also better sleep)? average sleep is only almost 6 hours or less
Unfo I'm not a sleep expert, but my basic recommendations would be sleep hygiene (less screen time before bed, relaxing environment etc), no caffeine after 12 noon, no alcohol, consistent bed time
@@NutritionTriathlon okay.. but at least 8hours of sleep?
That's different for everyone. I think at least 6 hours is a good number! More if you can
For me, close to 50 this is just another tool, knowing a lot about tech and physiology from a long life as an athlete, coach and just being alive, I love the Garmin. But I also bought a fenix 7s for my son, for his 15th birthday, he got stressed out from the data and monitoring, cause, he is 15 and his life has been around tech, and hence feeling that tech is always right.
I KNOW if my Garmin is wrong if I was calm during my sleep,and I still drank too much alchohol last night, but somehow I still slept well and got a good scoore.... but how are a teen supposed to know that this is just a approximation and not the absolute truth....
This is valid for any tool. Garmin does not claim to be medical correct.... But it is great fun to use if you have some experience.... then the garmin watches can be great as a second point of view.
And finally... my experience is that my watch is REALLY good at analyzing my current fatigue and stress. Its quite remarkable. But still I have enough life experience to think for myself. My 15 year old son doesn´t... and that is a problem , and I´ve told him to take the watch off and just chill....
Sounds like a good balance to me, especially for your kid! Nice one
I have a Friend who is into the Hawaii Competitions, and does Competitions that are not even known to anyone. He’s wearing a Rolex. I’m on a Garmin Tactix because I think it’s helpful, but I’m not even running Marathons. So these measurements don’t have much impact on me.
Rolex is an interesting choice for a race!
I don’t believe what the watch told me but I use the good thing the watch tell for motivation 😂😂
Haha yeah, I think that's how a lot of people feel!
Sorry but this video is all over the place. Firstly you can’t mix validity and reliability. These are two different criteria in science that mean totally different things. You are actually talking mostly about reliability. Then you are talking about is “guesswork”. Garmin actually correlates a whole lot of stuff with their watches. Meaning they have real data to back up their estimation. You can’t really evaluate how good their estimation is. Third is that you are rather describing personal insecurities that you might want to talk about with a psychologist.
My take on Garmin devices: They are accurate enough to determine stress and they can aid very well to manage stress and recovery. Take everything with a grain of salt. I even use them with clients in psychotherapy to mange their stress levels. They work fine for that purpose. If you are an aspiring athlete I would advise you to use even more data and try to aggregate it to get a clearer picture. Either use other devices or other apps to analyze your data. Thank you for reading my lengthy thoughts!
Hey, thanks for your input - always appreciate comments! I'm quite aware of the differences and I am talking about both of these things here. The main issue is that their estimations ARE estimations, and they are estimations based off estimated data. That is a huge issue which increases the potential for lots of different errors.
The whole purpose of this video is to encourage athletes to use their data but with a grain of salt. Have a read through the comments on this video and you will see this is a big problem for many users, both from a psychological aspect and having reliable AND valid data!
@@NutritionTriathlonWell. Every measurement is an estimation my friend. Question is how good are they. If you want to question their reliability you should come up with more than just your personal experience or feelings. I’d like to see some data. It’s just all in all a weak argument you are making. And yeah. Totally understand that people overuse and have overly confidence in the metrics Garmin provides. Use them wisely…
@@velosoph02No, that is not true and you are missing a key point here 🙂 heart rate is not an estimation and neither is heart rate variability. They are actually being measured and have high reliability and validity. However, stress score, essentially what your daily heart rate variability means for you, IS an estimation that Garmin has created. Likewise, Garmin has to estimate your sleep, and it is creating an estimation of your sleep score - again, something they have created. They are then creating an estimation - training readiness - based on the other estimated scores that they have created. These are in-house scores that they are creating that have no standardisation or scientific backing via papers or trials.
However, something like heart rate variability in its truest sport fashion (morning resting reading) DOES have research investigating it.
I have always felt their body battery to be very much in line with how I feel during the day.
Those metrics work very well for me. All metrics have errors for all devices but are useful if you know how to interpret them. The video is useless and very very biased.
Hah, thank you for your input!
Garmin data is nonsense.
I’m 69 and my Garmin recommends me to do sprints at 5.10 miles pace. I could only do 5.30 miles 30 years ago at my peak
HR readings are miles out compared to Polar & Apple
It is not nonsense. It may be for you, most probably the shape of hour wrist or skin characteristics or whatever else means your HR is not measured properly and after that everything will be off. For most people it's pretty accurate, especially newer models.
@@yianpap6093 I use an either a chest strap or an arm strap for runs. I tried using the wrist stats on my Garmin for recovery & sleep tracking but the sensor on a £600 Garmin is miles off
It seems that people get very varying results with Garmin!
@@NutritionTriathlon Polar, Coros and Apple are all better than Garmin for HR tracking.
@@Neilveg It's strange to me that someone who is 69 hasn't learned to make measured statements, but there you go. I have a Suunto 5, a Coros Pace 3 and a Garmin 965. I've tested all of them for a month (running) together with a Polar chest strap for reference. The Coros and the Suunto have been pretty much useless for HR. The 965 is pretty much perfect. Most reviewers agree with my findings. I don't buy Apple, but their HR is supposed to be very good indeed. So maybe your Garmin is defective, or an old model, or who knows. But you cannot be talking generally like you do.
Surely the data is purely a source of information and is more valid that your RUclips opinion
Depends how much you trust either 😉
@@NutritionTriathlon😂
I think it comes down to whether or not you treat health tools as a guide, or a God.
Haha, the Garmin God! I like that.
Try being an insomniac and wear a garmin, it great fun. I only use the matrix that I need and laugh at the rest.
😂 Gotta get your kicks from somewhere right?!
Guys, stick to your metrics as an adult does. It is objektive data and it makes no sense what this fidget nutrition guy tells you. Get the data and decide...
I mean, this is a weird comment on many levels. Did you watch the video? 🙃
If you want to measure your heart rate (cadence and other parameters such as power) quite accurately, you need to use external sensors, because the built-in optical heart rate monitor is rather inaccurate, especially during intense physical exercise.
Yep, definitely. My Forerunner 955 is OK - just nowhere near as good as my dedicated one.
HRV data can be served as an early warning on the onset of illness. Ignore this nonsense.
Yes, it absolutely can. That doesn't nullify the rest of the video!