🔴 Sharpest 50mm LTM Lenses | Industar vs Elmar 5cm 3.5 vs 2.8 vs Summitar vs Voigtlander Heliar 50mm
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- Опубликовано: 16 дек 2020
- Leica Collapsible 50mm Lens Comparison: Summitar vs Elmar vs Industar vs Voigtlander Heliar
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I was interested to see which of my 5 collapsible Leica 50mm screw mount lenses (LTM lenses) was the sharpest so in this video I compare 5 Leica thread mount lenses (L39 mount): Industar 50 vs Leica Elmar 50mm f3.5 vs Elmar f2.8 vs Summitar 5cm f2 vs Voigtlander Heliar 50mm f3.5. As a benchmark I used the Voigtlander Nokton 58mm f1.4 (Nikon F mount). I also did a lens flare test - Voigtlander Heliar 50mm f3.5 vs Leica Elmar 5cm f3.5 vs Industar-50 50mm f3.5.
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You can delete this after you read it : Some people rely on captions, consider enabling them for all your videos.
@@craigconway4093 Thanks.. I think you can turn them on or off on any video as a viewer. I will check the settings though too thanks. No ned to delete. All good!
Summarit is definitely a Jekyll and Hyde. Super glowing, dreamy, creamy, bubbly bokeh wide open. Stop down to 2.8 and you have Summicron sharpness. Even the old original Summar kinda similar. Definitely lenses that create a mood. Modern lenses look great but they’re common sterile sharpness and high contrast is a dime a dozen. Those Leitz lenses are real gems.
Thanks! I need to get my Summarit cleaned next year as it flares in bright light. Agreed nice character!
Really? I find my summitar to be more contrasty and "fun" to look at, compared to my zeiss planar. The zeiss is stupid sharp, on par with a modern summicron etc. But the summitar has a touch to it. I have zero glow in my summitar, mainly because my summitar doesn't have haze like many old leica lenses do. LOL.
wow great review ...again ... :-) amazing test ... Very glad with the excellent result of the Elmar 50 3.5... As I told you I'm gonna test mine this week end ...
Thanks Jerome!
I don't think early Leitz lenses were known for their contrast but they are capable of giving great mid tones and if your a darkroom worker you can always use a harder paper or just up the contrast a little with appropriate software for scanned negs. This was a most interesting set of comparisons.
Thank you and sorry I missed this comment 🙏🏻
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom , no apologies needed. :)
Have a great Christmas Matt. I really enjoy your videos. Cheers & regards.
Thank you Bernard, And to you also!
Great! I have a couple of samples of the Industar, with one being very good and the other being--well, kind of amazing. I just got the Elmar 3.5 and am looking forward to shooting with it.
Thanks and sorry for the late answer. Yes there are quite a few Industars. I just picked up 2 more to play with/ test so I’m interested to see which is the best performer!
So considering the cost of each lens; the Industar really is the true winner as you can put a hood on this 50mm lens to reduce the flaring and because it's cheaper you could buy several of them including the FED and see which one you prefer. I would say that's a win, win, win.
Thanks yes agreed, and still have some change to buy a few rolls of film! :) I do have a soft spot for Soviet stuff.
Not really. The tested Elmar is pre Red Scale which may be uncoated or with the oldest coatings and glass....the original computation of the Elmar (1930). The FED is a great alternative to the Elmar and budget friendly if one finds a great copy. The Heliar is great for landscape or things where we decide flares aren't wanted. All these lenses are great little gems.
The shot at 11:11 almost made me fall off my chair. Beautiful composition, and damn, this Summitar 50/2 is mind blowing.
Thanks! :)
In my opinion, this little test only underscored how after market lenses for the Barnacks are just brilliant. The Industar lenses are diamonds in the rough. Yes, they are knock offs the original designs-but they work, and at a fraction of the cost!
Thanks JT, agreed! Same goes for the J8 lenses too (and others)
industar is not an elmar copy - it is tessar...
@@nundata really?? Whoa. You learn something new.
Thank you for the great test
Thanks no problem! The next video is also a 50mm lens test but it is Nikon F mount.
I'm using both rigid Summicron 5cm and Elmars in the studio for photographing artwork.
f5.6 to f8 for distortion-free, tack sharp repro quality images (42mp on SonyA7Rii).
The secret of photographing artwork, works on canvas or paper, is lighting. Many, even with state-of-the-art super-duper, mega-dollar lenses, produce flat images, because they don't know lighting. But that's another story.
Thanks for sharing! I've been using my Elmar (MC version) this week. See tonight's video and you'll spot it I think.
Amazing, thank you for this!
Elmar is a hidden gem 👌
Thanks yes agreed! Especially a coated lens.
Hi Matt, I did a similar test about two years ago. I put my 1952 f/3.5 Elmar up against a Fed 50mm f/3.5 collapsible (the later type for the FED-2) & an Industar-22 collapsible. Just to get back to "basics" I added an early 1950s CZJ 50mm f/2.8 Tessar (14 iris blades in Exakta mount) to the line up. I crawled around the garden & shot colour jpegs, often into the light, on my Sony-a6000. I used a FISON hood on the collapsibles & a modern vented hood on the Tessar. I will have to lurk out the pictures for a revision & will try the experiment again in B&W. My results broadly parallel yours. I thought that it was a toss-up between the Elmar & the Tessar in terms of sharpness. I felt the same about colour rendition but ended up awarding the gold to the Elmar. The bronze went to the the 1951 Industar-22, despite it showing a few very light scuff marks under a loupe. I found this a little disappointing; the FED lens looks more pristine & I like using it on a FED (1) camera. I feel more like the custodian than the owner with the Leica & am a lot less precious about slipping a FED or Zorki in a pocket or haversack when getting out & about. One thing that I have noticed since; my rigid Industar-22 (RF version - also 1951) seems to perform better than the collapsible Indies. My final impression was that the Elmar & CZJ Tessar were a little ahead in both sharpness & colour with the Tessar being the 'sudsilicious' soap star in terms of the out of focus highlights, but, the Elmar has a little extra something that I can't quite put my finger on... Some may call it Pixie dust? I was intrigued by your 'turn around' in this video. In the last I wondered if sample variation had influenced your verdict. I like my Industars, which is just as well; I've bought a lot of them! But I have never put an Industar on my Leica... She's a Leitz girl & an Elmar snob! ;-)
BTW, I did (once) try a Canon 50mm f/1.8 on the Leica but it obscured the viewfinder. It works well, even with a hood, on an early FED-2. Ciao, fm.
Thanks FM! Great to hear your Elmar won too! I have more Industars so will do another shoot out one day. Yes the Canon 50/1.8 is a strong performer and my go to 50 LTM for low light. Love both the size and performance!
Matt, the contrast can of course be managed with choice of film and development.
That said, this was really very informative. I have the 3.5 Elmar which came with my Leica Standard, and an f2.8 Elmar, which I bought separately to use on other Leicas. Interesting. When I'm next on my way to the UK, I'll give you a shout out. If you're nearby, you may like to play with a camera/lens combo I'm planning to take.
Thanks Kevin!
Great video!!! Thank you 😊
Thank you!
Really enjoyed this one.
Sold the Heliar a week before seeing this video and kept the Industar and the 58mm Nokton.
Thanks Arthur! I still need to do my Heliar video. They are great but so is the 58mm! :)
Terrific video, Matt. Looking forward to further tests.
Thanks and sorry for delayed reply!
I just got my new, to me, 50mm f2 Summitar thanks to the 11:11 photo. THANKS!
Great, really nice lens
Great video and comparisons! I own the 50/2 Summitar and saw the same of having two lenses in one. It forms wide open a beautiful circular bokeh. Just minor thing: your video headline says Summarit 1.5, but I believe it should say Summitar 2.0.
Thanks Martin, eek I will change it thanks! (It’s because I mention Summarit at the end - on my mind!)
As always, good job Matt. My personal sharpest LTM 50mm lens is the Topcon Topcor 2.8/50. I am primarily a 50mm shooter, and own, or have owned, far more 50mm lenses than anybody should, and the Topcor, a Heliar design, beats every other LTM 50 I have ever used. It isn't collapsible, but with a length of approximately 46mm and a base that flares out to 46mm it is quite small. There isn't much information available about this lens online, and they appear to be scarce on the ground also, but if you ever get your hands on one I would certainly enjoy your review/comparison of it.
Thanks Steve, sorry for the late reply. Very interesting thanks! I have the Topcor f2 so I am with you to begin with. The f2 is on par with the Canon 1.8 for my test but better contrast I think. If the 2.8 is a Heliar I’m interested! Obviously the Voigtlander here is also a Helier. I love the 15mm f4.5 Voigtlander and also the Fuji GF670 with its Heliar lens. I will keep a look out! Thanks
Do you have a link to anything about this lens? The Topcon. I can't see anything online even confirming the existence of a 2.8 50mm LTM!
@@charlescave3561 Rare lens, check this, and see the Heliar 50/2.8 near the top right.
Really useful comparison. I have just carried out a similar exercise on my X-E1 with my Jupiter 8, Summitar, Summicron 50mm collapsable, Zuiko 50mm f1.8, Pentax M 50mm f1.7 and Fuji 18-55mm. All of the modern lenses were much crisper with more punch but I was surprised how good the Jupiter 8 and Summitar were. My Summicron has very light haze and could do with a service although without a torch inspection it looks like new.
Thanks! Yes my Summarit 1.5 needs a service too. I should get onto it next year 👍🏻
@@j.f.7509 thanks yes I have in different mount and I agree! It will be reviewed at some point.
Honestly shocked. I was thinking of getting the Voigtländer Heliar to reproduce that 3D pop you see on some Bresson photos. Thank you!
yes it's a strange one. It can perform well but suffers from lack on contrast into the light. When it works it can look great. I have the M mount version too, see the full Heliar video
Thnx for the review Matt, I’m glad I have the Elmar then ;-) I was thinking of buying the Helios 44-2 58mm F2, any thoughts on that lens, or something with a swirly bokeh?
Hi Jean thanks. Yes the Helios lenses give nice swirl. See my Helios 44 video. On Leica I use the Summarit 50 f2 for the bokeh look.
What a wonderful review you have done for those vintage lenses! I am getting into the Barnack world now. I just wonder whether I put all those lenses collapsed into M10 without touching the senor? I wish I can use the M10 to test them first before I put them onto the Barnack Cams.
Thank you, if you see my specific Elmar 5cm f3.5 video you will see it fully collapsed on my M240.
Interesting stuff Matt.
I wonder how the Industar would fair against the rest, at the edge of the frame at various apertures, and either a few meters away, or at 'infinity'?
I had an industar for a while - I liked it, but its softness at the edge of the frame began to wear on me, so I sold it .... eventually.
Thanks yes another viewer mentioned edges, sadly i'm the wrong guy to ask for this as I never look with me shooting portraits! Interesting to hear though so thanks.
Note there's the original Elmar 3.5 (the one used for the comparison here is such, and shows the black scale) and then the Red Scale Elmar. The RS has higher contrast and resolves more in the center. The Heliar is a great lens from early 2000, competing with the Elmar v3 (the 1990s one) and the rendering is not just about detail, but how organic the photos look). I like all these lenses. They are all great. The Heliar (or E39 Elmar) are better for landscape as they will show very good corners stopped down a little bit. The others are perfect for anything that doesn't require crisp corners wide open, which is 90% of what I do.
Thank you, great summary! I knew the RS were supposed to be better but I didn't know the specifics. (Sorry I missed this).
One can learn to love lens hoods, for the difference in price of the lenses.
Thanks John, yes I use them if I have too! :)
The Canon 50mm F1.4 ltm works great on my Leica IIIa and Canon IVsb. The price is very reasonable. Good idea to use a hood.
Thanks John, lovely lens, see that video. (ah you have I see!) :)
In a photograph contrast has been shown many times to be more important than resolution (I'm assuming that is what you mean by "sharp.) This is because the eye interprets high contrast as resolution. A high resolving lens with low contrast produces a muddy photo that does not appear "sharp," even though it is.
Thanks yes! I find the same ‘problem’ with fine grain film like PanF, it’s sharp but due to fine grain it looks less so.
Hi Matt, I really enjoy your videos. I'm new to Leica and just purchased an m11-p and the vintage lens idea is interesting me. I was wondering what's your favorite 'walk about' lens, vintage and modern. And which small lens do you take for a 'walk about' because it's fun to use, and which do you choose when you want good IQ in a small size?
Huge topic but in brief, 40 2.8 everyday lens, modern. Arty lens, 7A 50 1.1
O Matt! Here we go again! Sharpness is far less important than contrast. You agreed with me. Now tell your viewers! P.S. Your videos are excellent.
Thanks Jeremy :) Yes i'm still trying to find lenses giving some of each haha :) I reviewed the Jupiter 8 on Patreon (talked about) and that has great contrast - being a Sonnar! :)
Matt, I was just wondering if you could comment on how well the Industar focuses on a Leica body -- there's lots of talk about these Soviet lenses needing shimming to focus properly using the rangefinder cam. Was your Industar shimmed or modified in any way? The results look great and I'd love to pick one up, but only if I can actually focus the thing :)
Hi Isaac, yes correct it is said the flange distance is different for Soviet vs Leica glass but with a f3.5 lens it is still sharp wide open no issues and fully working.
Very nice videos you've been posting Matt. I enjoy them all. Regarding the Elmar, I know that haze can cause a drastic loss of contrast and is often found in lenses of this vintage. How clean is your copy? Just wondering how it fares in the backlit flashlight test. Also, looks like yours is uncoated which further reduces contrast. Might be worth trying a coated, super clean version.
Thanks Bruce, sorry for delay. My Elmar its pretty clean and although looks uncoated I think it must be coated as a late 1951 copy. (My Summarit 50/1.5 has haze and needs cleaning).
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Hello, I too was surprised by the flare from the Elmar. I have both a pre-war uncoated and 1956 red scale version, and your test shot flared like the uncoated. However, yours should be coated. I've also compared my 1956 to a Industar-50 and found both better contrast and sharpness with the Elmar, though close. My 1933 Elmar has some haze, along with no coating, but with an optimal subject/lighting is very close to my red scale. At 3.5 with all the above. Amazing lens the Elmar, the very first system lens ever made. As you point out Matt, being so ultra compact there's no competition, even today. The Russian FED-10 is a tad slimmer when collapsed, but not as good as Industar-50 or 22 I've found. Great results with Elmar and Fuji apsc too. Cheers.
@@NJ-zi9lr thanks Nick! I appreciate your results confirmation. Yes agreed mine should be coated but there is very little blue tint. Many thanks!
@@NJ-zi9lr thanks yes I wonder if mine had the coating removed or wasn’t coated for some reason. Mine flares in a real life setup.
Matt- The Summitar you tested is the 12 blade version but UNCOATED. I would expect the coated 12blade Summitar to do significantly better in contrast and flare control considering it is a six element design. Time for you to upgrade. Don’t the range entirely pinned down but a coated Summitar with serial number under 802000 will be the 12 blade version. The break point is somewhat higher but I am
Sure about 802,000. The reason I stress this is that the later Summitars (all factory coated) used a six blade design (possibly left over Summar diaphragms) which yield a really funky haxagonal bokeh.
Thanks Adam, fantastic knowledge yet again! Yes mine is the uncoated version, correct. I will keep my eyes open for coated ones.
Gobsmacked! Thanks for going the extra mile on this and including the other two lenses! Going back to the 60’s, when Japanese lenses first came readily available, It was commonly thought that Nikon, Pentax and Canon lenses were sharper than German lenses. That was not the case, they were a lot more contrasty because of the better lens coatings but actually not as critically sharp as a Leitz or other German made lens like W. German Zeiss.
Thanks Howard, I failed to mention that I also tested Canon Nikon and others for myself. Wide open or close to Canon always beat fast Leicas. The Canons were some of the top performers in the test FYI
..but I still love the small Elmar size and the Summitar rendering :)
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Actually since the Summitar is safely collapsible on a Canon V series or a P it actually pairs well with, say your, L3 for as compact a single lens combo you can get with combined viewfinder/rangefinder window. You should try it as part of your much anticipated review of that camera.....
@@AGL93311 thanks Adam nice idea. It will come next year once I get chance to using it. Not travelling doesn’t help.
Thanks for this video!! Imm planning ln getting a Leica III F in amazing condition I found at a small photography store but it's just the body and I was looking for a 50mm lens and this is great help! Hope I can get it soon. I'm excited for my first Leica
Hey thanks! Congrats ..almost on your first Leica! These are some of the nicest made of all Leica. Get the Elmar or similar for the jacket pocket Leica experience
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom hi!! Yesterday I finally got my Leica IIIf! Seems to be working perfectly except for the T "speed" wich it's just about a second of exposure (it should stay open until I press the shutter again right?) and also the ghost image on the rangefinder is very very dim but we'll see how it shoots. I got an Elmar 5cm 3.5f that I should have with me in a week or so and a Jupiter-8 50mm 2f that a friend will send me next month!
Do you know if the rangefinder ghost image issue is an easy fix? Thanks a lot!
@@woopize congrats! Orange plastic over non VF window helps (they made special window caps but they will cost the same as the camera these days) (it’s increases contrast like wearing sunglasses)
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom cool! Thanks for the tip! I'll try it!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom So, after two months on the mechanic my Leica IIIf Black Dial can't be repaired :( the shutter speed mechanism is broken and they can't find any new pieces... they have another IIIf but with the self timer wich I don't like as much but oh well... hopefully I can start shooting soon!
Have you ever encountered with a problem like that in the shutter mechanism?
I don't know if someone already suggested it in the comments, but I believe that your 3.5 Elmar might have some haze, the contrast should be way higher then your tests suggest and the flare _much_ lower (had a coated "black scale" Elmar back in the past and now a coated "red scale" one, both were tremendously sharp in the center from wide open). Shine a strong flashlight through it and it should be apparent if it's crystal clear or not :)
dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/g56ma910qxwt2cx/fujivselmar.jpg directly against the _very strong_ sun... before cleaning the inside lens surfaces, my Elmar also flared like hell and had a way lower contrast
Thanks yes it does flare badly in real conditions.. it looks clean inside from memory but I will check again. I'm not sure if mine is uncoated too. .will check thanks!
thanks for sample photo.. yes mine would look like this I think, thanks!
Hi Matt, great videos...thanks. I have been using Fed 2's cameras with the rigid lenses. I just received a collapsible Fed 50 lens almost identical to the Industrar 5cm 3.5 in your video. How do you actually focus the lens? I can focus when I use the focussing knob, but it looks like the knob literally moves/turns the whole body of the lens. In other words, it seems like when using the focussing knob, one is actually threading the lens in and out of the body the camera slightly. Does that sound right? Is this really how focussing this lens works? Would be great to get a second opinion before I put some film through the camera with this lens mounted. I also don't want to pop the lens out accidentally while trying to focus. Thanks!
Hi thanks! Is sounds like the focus lock is on. Press the focus lever end button to release and it should then turn without unscrewing.
Very interesting for me, as I recently bought a Leica IIc without lens, but have a couple of the Industar lenses to hand. One point not covered is the quality of images if shot in colour. How does the old Elmar lens deal with chromatic aberrations?
Thanks Phil. I’m a B&W shooter so perhaps not the best person to ask for this question. I’m not sure is the answer, sorry.
Let's be honest, if you got a coated summitar, you pretty much own a summicron v1. First summicrons were pretty much the same, maybe marginal sharpness....The summitar is the best and most slept on leica lens in existence.
Thanks Adrian, that’s a great way to put it!
The Voigtlander 50/3.5 is such a cool (and quirky) lens! Particularly the LTM and M mount versions. I found their handling to be less than great though. I have the Nikon-S mount version and it handles better because the focus can be locked in position by holding the "razor wheel" while adjusting aperture. Works nicely. But one more strike against the Voigtlander is the bizarre filter size. For B&W work on film it is rather a nuisance.
The sharpness alone was not significantly different to make a decision on any of the lenses, the overall look is probably going to be the deciding factor. Modern High contrast = Voigtlander, Vintage & better tonality = Elmar.
Thanks Mike and sorry for my late answer. Yes well said. In real terms the Voigtlander is excellent for sure. The M is better as goes in closer for me and yes filter is weird. I will show my DIY setup for that when I do the review. Just ordered a 27mm yellow so planning to use the lenses :)
I don't mean this in any troll like way and I think your videos are great in their own way, but of course (there is always a but) with a "tech driven" art form (as photography is, let's face it) we all get caught up the stuff like "sharpest" and "best", you know, gear stuff. It's not just the Leica people but everyone who ever picked up a camera. My point is this video is just kind of to the point. You know as well as I that it is the content of the image that truly matters and in any test of time, nobody is going to care about the film stock or the lens or camera that was used...we hope. It always should be about the image. Always. Leica, Argus, who cares. Get the shot. Flip flopping over Elmar or Industar is great fun but if your shot has any relevance not one is going to care about your gear. Nobody cares what type of brush Rembrandt use and if they do, I feel they are missing the point. Anyway, thanks for your videos. Just for an example, if you've ever since the movie 12 Monkeys, it was based on a book by Chris Marker (He was French) made called La Jetee. He used a Pentax K1000 with a 50mm lens. The book is a classic and looking at it, nobody judges it on his gear. Keep doing what you do, you obviously are very into you gear and very passion about it. Regards
Thanks Jeff! Yes I totally agree. This channel is a bit of a gear head channel but i'm not a coloured pen/ brick wall shooter type and I fully appreciate and agree with your comment/ This is for those that want to take images and have a choice of lenses and don't know what to use. I have got really nice image out of my cheaper Minolta X300 (see video) and cheap Nikon FG-20 (see video). I use a lot of Leica stuff but agree it's what you put in front of the camera that counts. :)
could you please review the voightlander vintage 35mm f2 ultron?
Hi John, yes I hope to this year if Voigtlander send me one.
The collapsible lenses would make traveling easier, but I wonder about using these with digital cameras. Specifically, bringing dust into the camera and onto the sensor when the lens is retracted. Matt, any thoughts on how to deal with this? Or is it not really a problem in practical use?
Good point though I’ve never seen an issue with it. Most people are scared about the collapsing design rather than dust.
I think for the best Tessar type lens you need a Contax / Kiev . I have heard very good things about the post war Carl Zeiss 1:3.5 Tessar . The underdog post war Triotar 85mm is a must have if you get to know him . But I'am a Kiev man with some Zeiss lenses .
Thanks Peter! I've you are a Kiev man I have some Kiev's to come so stay tuned! I love some of the lenses like the Opton Biogon! :)
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I have some very early 1951 Jupiter lenses made from Zeiss Jena glass . I can't see any difference between them and the real Zeiss lenses . I have also a 1940 1:1.5 T Sonnar 5 cm , the bokeh , contrast and 3D drawing of this lens is very special . A Jupiter 3 is not the same for sure .
@@pietjekarbonkel2710 thanks Peter, good to know 🙏🏻
Hmm, I shoot a few (too many) 50's... While sharpness is a non-issue in almost all real world scenarios, of the ones tested, the (non-collapsible m-mount) Heliar 50 3.5 is what I would put in my bag for almost everything. For your type of model shoots, it provides a ridiculous amount of background separation for a 3.5 minimum aperture piece of glass. That said, for the added glow and backlight effects, I can see how you would use the summilux 50 or the 50 1.2 nokton... My shooting style and subjects are vastly different from yours though and I often prefer slightly longer lenses for added compression and wider lenses for landscapes. Nice review though, perhaps in a future one, enlighten people about the use of lighting and the microcontrast of the lenses tested...
Thanks Jan, yes I still need to review the Heliar 50mm f3.5. Great lens and I have the M mount version too. I will try to finally do a video for this lens next month.
If collapsible lenses is not your cup of tea, may I suggest the Industar-61L/D 55mm f2.8 as your lens of choice -- if you're going for price and performance. I own one and used it for a FED-5, FED-2, Leica IIf, and Leica IIIf. Superb contrast (the lanthanium-coated elements help to achieve this), great sharpness (looks similar to a stopped-down Summitar), and compact size. Personally though I am using a Chiyoko Rokkor (Minolta) 45mm f2.8 lens for my Barnacks.
Thanks! I nearly bought that 45mm years ago. I have the 61L/D but maybe I have a bad copy. Its not as good as I expected.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Like any FSU lens, it's a hit or miss thing. Thankfully my version is a good one. I would also suggest the Rokkor too in replacement, but it has a weird sharpness characteristic that might not be for everyone (sharpest center, weak middle, better corner sharpness).
Do you have any experience with the new leitz Elmar 5cm f3.5 ( with the orange trim) ?
No sorry I have the modern 90 Elmar which is slightly similar but no the 50mm, sorry.
I’ve had similar results with the Elmar 3.5, have both uncoated & nickel coated and the coated is outstanding, I’ve quite a few 50mm LTMs and this scored just below the thorium 5cm summicron (and in my opinion no better 50mm) even over lenses like the summilux asph.
Thanks Adrian! Great you found this also and sorry I missed your comment.
That is why I have Elmar M mount 5cm f3.5, as well as LTM version, and no 2.8 version :).
Thanks Darko, great lenses! :)
Hello Matt. I bought the lens that Lens Light Lab presented. 35mmf/2 collapsible but I don't understand where I check what aperture the lens is at when I'm taking a picture. As it is used on the Leica M3. Since the lens is for the M Mount.
Since the lens does not have the point where you can see what aperture the lens is at (F 2.0 f/2.8 f/4 etc.).
Thank you in advance
I bought the lens on ebay Mexico.
Best regards.
Hi yes it is a lens design flaw. I will cover that in the full video (I did a preview video for this lens already). Use a pencil or marker to mark where the aperture is wide open then you can read the numbers as you stop down.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaComThank you very much Matt, I really appreciate your attention and the way to mark the point, I will see how it works for me. I hope it will be worth the lens. Thank you.
Best regards.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Thanks Matt, I hope it's worth the lens ?
Only post war lenses civilian Leitz are coated, Elmars from serial number 598201. Summitars from 587601. Summitar design changed c1953 at 920,000, with much better resolution over the whole negative when stopped down, but no better at f2.
Thanks and sorry I missed this. Excellent info.. I need to go and check mine now! Mine seems uncoated but.. will check!
so glad we can take sharp Fotos ..
There are plenty of softer lenses too if you prefer more character. I am doing a fast 50s video similar to the format of the lens video yesterday as some of these are not sharp wide open :)
can I use a Leica collapsible Summitar 50/f2 safely on my M240? Is it safe to collapse the lens while on the body? Thanks Matt!
Yes no issues. Any M is ok
Keep 'em all and send me the Canon 25mm and finder shot in some of the examples.
Haha yes nice lens! :)
Hi, any issues of this lens "hitting" the sensor of the M10 or M10-P when it is collapsed. A friend who is using film have offered this lens to me but my concerns lingered. Thanks for any feedback.
Sorry for delayed reply. Yes you can use the lens on M cameras no issue. See some of my other videos as you see these lenses on my M240 which is a similar design.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Thanks Matt.
Try Xenon 50 mm f1,5, Matt...! Amazing...!
Ah thanks I will keep a look for it!
I have that heliar 50 3.5, but rigid and doesn't collapse. It is SHARP.
Yes! I have it too. Video still to com with samples & comparison version LTM version. Stay tuned!
Hi, any chance you tried the Elmar 50mm 2.8 M on a SL/SL2s body? can it be fully collapsed ? will greatly appreciate the info :) , thanks
Hi Mario, I use these types of lenses with band on lens barrel so not to collapse 100% (on CL and SL)
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom thanks so much for the reply! I recently got one but didnt wanna try it on my SL2s without hearing what others had to say about it first 😅, cheers !
The classic 50 'cron is sharper than the 50 'lux stopped down so that would be the next sensible comparison.
Interesting, thanks for sharing! Yes I’m sure I will do more testing :)
Matt, how do you rate the Elmar 2.8 compared to the Summitar? I've used a Summitar and it's a lovely lens (came with a iiif I had to send back as it was faulty but loved the lens). Now got a iiig that came with a Summar (hazey and scratched) so bought an Elmar f2.8 as it was a period lens for the camera and had good reviews but ws told it was a bit bland and didn't have the Leica look. Apparently Leica catalogues say the Elmar f2.8 is a landscape lens and the Summitar f2 is a portrait lens. I was going to ask about the collapsible Summicron f2, but you've not tried that one. I'm wondering how you rate the Elmar 2.8 for portraits? I hate the fact it spins when you focus though. I would've bought the Summitar in a flash (very similar prices tbh) but the bug-bare is its daft filter thread.. Why oh why did Leica do that to a great lens... Love the vids btw.
Also wondering about the Voigtlander 50mm f1.5 aspherical ltm.
Also noticed your version of the Summitar is an uncoated one. The one I had was a coated 10 blade version, so probably a bit more contrasty/sharper than the uncoated one.
Hi Rhys, sorry I missed this. Yes I have both, see Elmar video and yes the Summitar is nicer for portraits for sure. The 2.8 is OK though, i've got some nice images with it too. Yes filter thread is a bit of a pain!
Yes coated will have more contrast etc, not a bad thing
Good lens but not tried in LTM, video for this is overdue already
I think I am a very bad photographer... For example, I had never get a really sharp picture with the Elmar from Leitz, But off course the Sumichrome is great ... I have got super sharp pictures with the Jupiter 8 (50 mm f: 2.0) from Ukraine. Lots of people are chanting about the 58 mm f: 2.0 Helius lens (copy of the Sonnar from 1936) just a mellow thing acceptable for portraits, no more... I say acceptable because when you need really small detail, its not there... Some time you hit the Jack Pot and get an Industar great or an Helius excellent, but in the creation of lenses the most important thing is quality control. The problem is that pouring melt glass into a mold is not an easy or precise process. Some times a mold for 40 lenses when cold and inspected give 10 or 12 pieces of excellent quality, Germans and Japanese lens builders reheat the bad lenses and start over. In other countries will be using maybe 20 or 25 to save some money and time with the extras semi acceptable... My experience, buying and selling photographic equipment for years tell me: If you are going to buy lenses carry a powerful loupe and check the glass carefully, look for super small bubbles, super thin lines or a curve in the glass that shows not continuos undulation. Today is simpler due to the use of synthetic glasses and not the old Flint and Crown glasses, but when you are sometime paying more for the glass than for the camera is better be careful... Bottom line the camera is just a box... The photo is made by the lens... Happy Shooting to all...
Great advice, thanks for sharing here!
I just received my industar 50/3.5 and I noticed it has a longer barrel than the one you use. Did I buy the wrong lens for my Leica iiia?
Hey Steve, no I would not worry. There are many slightly different designs over the time
Thank you
Matt, do you have the old collapsible 50 summicron? Could you or have you compared the sharpness winner of this video with the collapsible summicron?
Hello, sorry no I haven't. It should perform very well. I have the DR and v5 Cron but never tested side by side.
You have ALOT of glass @@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom 👌🏼😁
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I didn’t think you’d reply to a three month old vid so pleasantly surprised. It’s very nice when people actually work on the non video parts of their channels. Thanks Matt, thumbs up to you and the video
@@noc838 thanks, yes I try to reply to all comments. Thanks for mentioning 👍🏻🙏🏻
@@noc838 haha yes, I collect for too long! Don’t watch too many videos or you will discover more of them haha
Surprise. The classic Barnack Elmar 5cm f3.5 turns out to be the best.
Yes big surprise!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I have the Elmar 3.5 RD, the Heliar 50f3.5 101Jahre- like the one you tested and the nickel Heliar 50 f2 10th anniversary Ltd. edition (100 copies / each letter in Heliar) LTM. The Later LTM Elmars had better coatings - so I may try a resolution test and also compare these with some of the M mount and Nikon F mount 50’s.
@@ofeykalakar1 Thanks.. ah I just mentioned the 50/2 to you in my last comment!! I imagine it is amazing :)
I have a Leica Summilux on my Huawei p10 plus smartphone.
Brilliant. f1.8 max aperture.
@@neilpiper9889 ha thanks
mmm,,, I tested my Heliar 50 against a lot of modern glass.... Zeiss, Sony... also compared it to other vintage lenses and it was sharper than or on paar with everything modern .... the only vintage lens that could compete was the C/Y Zeiss 45mm pancake lens. No Russian lens came close. I was stupid enough to sell it :(
Thanks Klaus, sorry to hear you sold it. Yes a great performer for sure. I should use mine more. You can find on eBay if patient.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Hold on t yours... it might be a good investment :) The new version can still be bought new. I've seen the collapsible version sometimes but for at least double the price of the new one :)
Matt how do feel about the Summar 50/2?
Hi Steve, I went for other lenses instead as they are sharper and ignoring the video title I quite like sharp lenses. I'm sure I could still use one and make nice photos but that's why i've not bought one / looked to buy one.
I found a 50/2 Summitar for $375 USD.
@@stevepringle2295 you might find cheaper options
If you had to have one Leica 50mm, which one would it be?
Summilux 50 1.4 ASPH M
Good review but you sure went down some rabbit holes, lol. Curious why you used an APS CL for the tests instead of a 35mm M240 which would better reveal the lens’ full character and sharpness (not just the center)?
Thanks/ sorry! Yes I use the CL as it removes the chance of rangefinder calibration issues with the M240 affecting the result.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Cool. I figured you must have had a reason, lol. Merry Christmas, Matt!!
@@gottanikoncamera thanks and to you! (Working on new content behind the scenes but sorry for lack of new videos)
Voigtlander is not recommended as a Japan person. This is because cisina's recent after-sales follow-up has become a bad attitude for both individuals and dealers, and they charge high maintenance fees that make it seem that they intend to buy a new one if it breaks. Some Japan lament that the cost of repairing Bessa was estimated at 50,000 yen, which is more than the general selling price.
Thanks for sharing
But do they all collapse safely on digital cameras without hitting the sensor??
Treat them all the same, if a rangefinder then yes, if mirrorless usually not fully. I think I show in the specific Elmar video.
Great test rather than look at targets.However, my testing has shown that due to helicoid thread pitch differences Russian lenses perform slightly better on Russian Cameras and The Elmar performs better on a Leica-put this lens on say a Zorki or a Fed and it wont perform as well as on a Leica. I use a lens hood on my Industar 50 .I tested a mate's Summitar ( nice clean glass) against the Industar 50 on a Zorki 1d and the Industar was much sharper in the centre, sharper in the corners and had better contrast.That said , if the test had been done on a Leica 3f eg the result may have been different.perhaps the only accurate way is to test the Leica lenses on a Leica and the Russian lenses on a good Fed or Zorki camera ( preferably made before 1960) .What I am trying to say is M39 thread ( Russian) is NOT the same as L39 thread .Enjoying your posts - keep up the good work
Thanks Peter, sorry I missed this and thanks for sharing. Yes great point. Sorry I should have mentioned this as I’m aware of it but yet I don’t see a huge difference in real terms. Maybe I need to test it more. I have plenty of Soviet RF cameras so I should do that test one day 👍🏻
This is because FSU cameras were made using the Zeiss 39mm x 1 mm thread pitch while the Leicas had their own pitch (1.5mm something?). Hence the minute differences which would affect lens rendition.
Leica Body-serial Nr.
455001-460000
Ic 1949-50
Thanks!
All good and dandy and useful, however...
IF you are using film cameras, with actual film (preferably B&W), and if you are developing film yourself, than you know that different film stock and different developers can impact contrast levels and sharpness massively. Yeah I know all those people which are developing films at local labs can't know anything about that. Just saying...
Thanks great point well made and sorry for delay! Yes I like to test on digital as kind of a base level that I can select film/ developer as needed and develop to add more contrast as you said. Good point.
Soviet lenses has to be readjusted to Leica cameras, cause they were designed according to a Contax standart.
Yes! Some work on Leica, some not (accurately*)
are you still making a video on the voigtlander 3.5
Yes! I’ll try in next 3-4 weeks.. sooner if I can!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom how sharp would you say it is been eyeballing this lens for a while
@@keybladesss very! Really good optics, just a quirky design
@@keybladesss search my Flickr photos
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom are you talking the quirky from the LTM version collapsible? I quite like the collapsible designs looks pretty cool 😎
Hi Matt too much lensvideos maybe?? You mixed with the names... In the header you write Summarit and meant Summitar and it is f2 and not f1,5 as in the header (and I think you also said it once in the video "summitar onepoint five"?) Lucky I wtach you
Thanks sorry I changed it! I do show the Summarit 1.5 near the end too that’s why I got it in my head from. Thanks for spotting error 🙏🏻
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Youre welcome!
you should never collapse lenses on digital M. Also Heliar despite being made in 2001 is actually a vintage design lens
Thanks Paul
One of the best modern 50mm today is the Voigtlander 50mm f3.5 heliar , probably the sharpest 50mm M mount lens as good as the Leica apo 50mmf2 at the same F stop but a fraction of the price and beautiful looking lens . I had the summicron 50mm telescope ltm and to be honest nothing special about this lens .
Thanks! I’ve done a review on the Heliar 50s, 2 versions I have. I have it with me to use this week actually 👍🏻
I might try to do apo vs Heliar video at later date!
I can't distinguish between contrast and sharpness .
Contrast gives the appearance of sharpness at a glance (easy trick to make a photo look sharper in editing)
Wait, what are you doing? Your job is to talk me into spending too much money on equipment. I was fully prepared to buy the Voigtlander. Now I guess I'll just buy my wife a present instead.
Haha no wait for the Voigtlander video next year. I think it performs better in real life situations than seen here. Still worth having but decide which mount you want ;)
That’s a limited edition Voigtlander lens (2000 copies of the 101 Jahre were made). They are going for much more than when they were new.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom So to speak....
@@ofeykalakar1 Yes 500 for each body colour as I know. 4 colours = 2000. You can get them on the 101 Bessa T. I'd quite like their 50/2! :)
to compare lenses you have to compare edge sharpness as well. every lens is sharp in center...
Thanks, i'm learning with RUclips, my latest video included edge sharpness and I was testing the edges for some future videos too.
s00per :)
Thanks!
having used the Elmar and industar i decided to inverst in a leica summar ..... that has to be the worst lens ever to come out of leitz
Hi, haha yes the Summar is very soft so not for everyone. I skipped that one and got the Summarit which is good.
Hello again, Matt! Once again up comes sharpness. You and I know the unwashed use this term for resolution; you and I know better.
For me the ultimate rebuke to sharpness lies in the early b&w pics of the great Ara Guler of Istanbul (my home town.) which he took near the Galata Bridge overlooking the Golden Horn. Look at them. There is no sharpness. The pics are dreamlike couldscapes punctuated by steam from the ferries. Looming in the background is the great dome of the Sultanahmet mosque. I think these pics are great because the do not depict. They suggest, they speak to the imagination. I have burned lots of Kodak Tri X trying to emulate Ara. So far, no luck.
That's cloudscapes!
Thanks Jeremy! Sorry I know "sharp" is a popular term to it works well for those looking for it. Agreed sharpness isn't everything but even as a Noctilux user I often find myself now trying to decide whether to shoot at f1 or f1.2 for a bit higher resolution and sharpness. :)
Wow. I went to eBay to look at Leitz Elmars and found something interesting: seems that most of the lenses listed as Elmars are from Ukraine and the Czech Republic. Many of these are painted black and orange or other colors, and/or are listed as "Zeiss Elmar." No real Elmar was ever black and orange (I think none was ever plain black either) and there's no such thing as a "Zeiss Elmar." When the Elmar was designed, Zeiss and Leitz were competitors, and the Elmar is similar to, but not a clone of the Zeiss Tessar.
The point is that all of these Ukrainian "Elmars" are counterfeits, converted Industars. An Industar sells for $30, while the fake Elmar's asking prices are $100 to even $150.
If you want an Industar, buy one for less than $50. Don't pay the Leica price for one.
I know it’s crazy isn’t it. I found it all by mistake. Some even say Elmar APO haha 😆
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Well. That's the extremely rare Ukrainian Zeiss Leica APO Elmar, worth at least £1000.
More seriously, there are also lots of Zorkis and other Russian Leica clone cameras, re-decorated to look like World War II German Luftwaffe and Kreigsmarine Leicas. Some are even gold-plated. (!!)
This is pretty common in other areas as well, with lots of near-worthless old pocket watches done over to look (slightly) like German watches from WWII, and sold for high prices.
It's a Ukrainian cottage industry.
Please note that this is not to say anything uncomplimentary about Ukraine as a country. I have friends there. But I'd be very careful about buying anything on eBay from there.
There are many Elmars available from the UK, the US and Japan.
@@scottparis6355 thanks Scott, yes I’ve seen the cameras ..and yes life is tough in Ukraine, I used to travel there for work so I know what the guys get paid. I still visit though, I like the place.
@@scottparis6355 I think I searched Europe and that brought up neighbouring Ukraine country listings.
Pointless to test full-frame lenses on APS-C format and equally pointless to test only centre sharpness. Were you to compare these lenses for sharpness and contrast at both the centre and corners of a full-frame image you might reach quite different conclusions.....!
Thanks.. actually no.. for me this ticks all my boxes so it is a matter of what might be important to you. I shoot portraits remember so I only want centre sharpness. I have no interest in the corners. I chose to test on the CL mirrorless as it removes the chance of calibration error if I used a full frame M body. Again I only need the centre so this works great for me. Sorry if it did't help if you shoot say landscapes or architecture and you want corner sharpness.
Most legacy lenses will fall apart in the corners on a FF sensor anyway.
@@caldera878 thanks
I do hate lens hoods made of plastic or rubber.
Plastic Airfix scale models and rubber condoms are OK.
All genuine ubber sun hoods made for Mamiya RB 67 and Olympus OM are crap.
Hasselblad made plastic sun hoods in the Eighties; being a bloody shame.
Worst are the plastic sun hoods for the digital Fuji Film X lenses.
All Fuji Film products should be banned out of Europe, because of plastic, bad
straps, dead wheels plus buttons and zero after sale service.
Lidl instant coffee is a must for restoring a Hasseld lens sun hood. The lid of the Lidl coffee container is made fo superior plastic and fits to all Hasselblad Zeiss B50 lenses.
Sun hoods should not be screwed in the lens nor clipped on.
Professinal sun hood sare made of aluminium and must have a bayonet.
Thanks Jaco , you'll like the TTArtisan 28mm f5.6 hood then - brass!