Thank you very much for the shout-out! This is definitely a good starting point to get into savage! Interestingly as almost a polar opposite to your way of getting into savage, I got into FFXIV as a way to step away from the more hardcore focus of raiding in WoW, which meant I had plenty of experience with the more general concepts of hard content, but little to no interest. I did savage raid for some time in Shadowbringers, even as raid leader, but the main reason I got into hard content again in Dawntrail was because some of my friends really wanted to go 😂 Of course, *having* experience with hard content means that your opinion or knowledge on the content will be more believable or trustworthy, but sometimes you will also just meet people that will move the goalpost, because they are just looking for a reason to disagree with you. "You did the newest extreme? Well its not savage." "You did the newest savage? Oh well by the point you did it you already had i730 from tomestones." "You did an ultimate? Well it was harder when I did it" And so on and so forth. What I mean is that I think a super important aspect for you is to make sure you are doing savage (and other hard content) mainly for your enjoyment, and not to satisfy those players. The rest can appreciate your opinion as it is, and if it is sound and reasonable, they can believe it without you backing it with a parse or something! 🤣 Also in regards to the pronunciation of my name, I think you got it pretty good! It is sort of meant to be japanese-sounding, so Ka-e-tsu for instance, but most just call me Cae, which sounds a bit like 'kay but where you lean into an E sound instead of a Y sound! 😁
I think one thing ffxiv raiders mainly like experienced raiders will joke and say this I know for a fact I have I never mean it though I have definitely though seen this truely meant and it feels like the reward for completing whatever you completed kinda got thrown down the drain
I found your channel some time ago and really loved it because I felt you did such a good job at sharing really helpful information! And yes, there are def people who will try to discredit you no matter what you do.... Ive had commenters say my opinion isnt valid because "this is only your second tier youve completed" (even though the first one I did included p8s, the fight everyone keeps referring to as one of the hardest savage raids but okay) as well as stuff like picking on my parse! I always DID want to raid anyway, because the NM content is just too easy for me and as a healer i need something to make me push those healy buttons. RUclips just ended up being the push i needed to overcome my fear of PF xDD Now, I raid casually on and off as I feel like it.
I think also a really good thing to mention about PF that was kinda mentioned or I forgot is its all your time I know as myself a Hexa legend I spend my time hopping in a lot of PFs Ive seen it all it feels like at this point good and bad but the biggest thing is you arent obligated to stay in a party if you have to do something irl you have to which makes it best for people with non consistent schedules so if you only have like a hour of game time can hop into something for a hour and call it good where as statics are set times that people cant make.
It will be a little difficult to get into these as unfortunately there isn't a large community doing the older raids unless they do them unsynced. Usually it's easier to find groups to do it synced via discord but you can make a PF and ya never know, people might join. You'll just have to specify if you plan to do it synced or not.
I started savage raiding in the last tier of Eden. What got me going was learning The Extreme was the phase 2 music. (FF8 fanboy since childhood). Since then I’ve lived in and out of PF. This tier I decided to start my own with a couple of friends and STRESSED that new players are absolutely welcome. The only requirements I made were that it was a blind prog group and the desire to play and learn. The gear will come. The skill will come. Blind progs are the most fun for us because it makes for some hilarious moments in figuring out why someone exploded and if it was due to a mechanic or a malicious tank (hello I am that tank), but it’s also super rewarding when we figure out our own way to do a difficult fight. The first step is always the largest, but it becomes easier with like minded players
Thank you so much for this! I'm still in post-MSQ Endwalker so I haven't had a chance to try savage, and I can tell there's still a lot to work on to get ready. At least now I have an idea of what to work on!
Really recommend Caetsu Chaiji’s content. I started playing a little over a year ago and with help from him and his discord community I worked up to clearing my first savage tier.
I got into savage raiding with this current tier. My main motivation was the glowing ultimate weapons and to get into that need the savage experience. Also being in med school I wanted a game I could fit into my routine to blow off steam neatly, and having a static with 1 day of prog a week has been amazing and beneficial for my productivity. I looked for a casual static in ERC and I was very lucky to join a wonderful group with really nice vibes. Since we prog only 1 day a week we going slow but hey I’m finally at m4s and it’s been awesome so far. As a healer main can definitely recommend EX3, it really encapsulates leniency and the flow of a 1st/2nd fight in savage and EX1 specifically for healer checks (tho maybe less now cause of better ilevel)
Every time I setup a PF I always make sure to make it noob friend with a Safety Dorito to help ^^ and if its a EX trial its a clear/farm Always for all members . How I got into it was easy I just wanted harder content to clear ^^
i always thought older expac extremes were the long-sought after secret lower-end midcore fights people have been calling for! for example starting with something in the 50-70 range, the dps check will be very watered and you have less buttons to worry about on the hotbar. plus while you might have to wait a bit for a party to fill (but at least be on the pf dc of your region), they are usually more chill since people aren't expecting everyone to have the fight on farm (unless the pf for some reason says so)
It’s quite the journey starting to do savage and high end content. Back in Shadowbringers I didn’t think of getting into savage. I just wanted cool mounts. And saw that Extremes had them. So I started doing Titania Ex. Wasn’t so bad, not much harder than a normal raid. But then Seat of Sacrifice came out. And that was where I learned a lot. After that I wanted to beat every ShB ex to get the mecha dragon mount. And after that I went to O12S unsync. Back in ShB you couldn’t melt it yet. And had to do a couple of important mechanics. The Limit cut of Omega F and M and then in the second phase Hello World, or goodbye world if you were doing the sac strat. XD Unsync and all that was my first savage fight and it felt awesome to clear it. :3
Surprised you didn’t mention not being dishonest about your prog to get ahead in a group, that’s the main thing that causes tension with more experienced people, just be honest about your prog
I got the mentor mount about a year ago. But I still feel almost like a fraud whenever I ride it because when it comes to extreme or savage I'm always too nervous to try unless some friends push me into it 😅
Lol, nah, Extreme and Savage are definitely beyond my skill level. Hell, I struggled to do Shadow of Mhach and have never been able to clear Coils of Bahamut synced, and with everything I've been told about Deltascape and Return to Ivalice regarding their difficulty, Stormblood marks the point where I had to finally stop doing even "Normal" content if the equivalent stuff in Realm Reborn and Heavensward still gives me trouble. Hell, even the Stormblood MSQ had fights I had to redo because of mechanics I couldn't keep up with on top of being made to look weak and useless story-wise (I really did not feel like the sort of person anyone should be asking to liberate nations after getting tossed around by Zenos, and beating him later just felt like an unexplained ass-pull), or how Eureka was an automatic skill check and nope'd out, and the end result was that whole expansion being a confidence nuke, lol. Raiding and other hardcore content is just a different beast meant for a different part of the playerbase, and that's fine, but I'm not going to pretend any longer that it's something I can do even on the most basic level and I'd rather not be a plague on someone's Normal & Alliance Raid roulette now that I've unlocked Deltascape and Return to Ivalice and can't undo it.
Tbf, I really don’t think anyone cares how many times someone dies in Alliance raids. There’re just too many players for anyone to focus on. This holds especially true for Ivalisce where everyone thinks there will be a 60% chance you’re all eating a wipe.
I think you should continue to try all of the normal mode stuff. Yes, you're not ready for savage and maybe that's something you'll never feel comfortable/want to do (and that's okay), but there's a lot of really fun content with cool rewards that is considered content for everyone at every skill level. Dont be afraid to try any of the alliance raids, bozja, eureka, or any of that stuff. Like these other commenters said, no one really cares if you die, and a lot of people will be willing to help (or carry) you through stuff because most people really just dont care in normal mode fights if theres some random person floormatting lol.
I'm in this boat as well. I lack the talent to even think about stepping into ex or harder. I just have a hard time understanding some normal fight mechs. Jeuno is as far as i'll go and thats pushing it. I just want to get through 1 run without dying on every fight.
I don't know about that, I thought i was terrible because my negative mindset plus a bad experience so avoided savages and even extremes for awhile but then did extremes and cleared savages. Just takes practice really ex and savage were designed to be cleared by anyone I'm pretty sure.
I want to raid, but I play on console. I can't type very fast with controller if i need to ask questions. So that's the main reason I haven't gotten into raiding.
I didn't do PF raiding, when I started. I immediately jumped into a static by founding my own with my wife. But it was not sugar and rainbows. We started in the first Endwalker tier. The group had four first timers and four veterans. We cleared P1S and P2S quickly, but on our first day on P3S, after one hour of tries, the caster rudely claimed that there are 3 people here that shouldn't do savage raiding. He left and took the other veterans along. Well, we first timers carried on recruiting, and eventually we managed to form a group that still exists. Few members have since left for their own reasons, but my group is still solid, and we have met and become friends in real life too. Today, I raid with my static around twice a week and I also do PF raiding with my Au Ra girl alt (my main is a cat boy).
Ironically I started raiding out of spite. I initially started raiding during the first tier of Eden but I was bullied out of my static due to my performance (I just started the game at the time). That really impacted my self esteem and I didn't think about raiding again until Abyssos. I wanted to prove it to myself, and the asshole that bullied me, that I could do it. After months of struggle in PF I managed to clear Abyssos as my first raid tier and was ecstatic. Snake memes be damned! A few months later I managed to clear UWU and now I'm about to jump into DSR and FRU. I like to think I proved them and myself wrong.
i think it's natural to be kinda bad at the game if youre a new player, but that doesnt mean you arent capable or that you deserve to be bullied. Literally just means you need the opportunity to learn, and that's it. I'm confused as to why the static would even accept you in if they weren't okay with a new player xD
Oof, I did o12s as my first savage and the clapping i received made me not try anything non casual even extremes until shadowbringers, my first cleared was abyssos as well 😀 gratz on the clear and fuck snake memes lol that was painful.
@Aitherea He certainly knew I was still new player at the time, we were in the same FC while I was progging the msq. I'm guessing he expected me to get up to speed faster than I did, or he needed to be an asshole to someone and I was the unlucky contestant. Hard to say really. I do chuckle every once in a while, I snoop on his profile now and then and he still hasn't cleared any savage tiers. It's the little victories.
Feel like the chaotic raid will just become a toxic, gatekept raid after week. Hope I'm wrong, but Yoshi-P and team suck at midcore content. Also I despise Bozja.
I have not delved into savage content yet. But I can do all the current extremes basically blindfolded. Anytime I try to get a pf going for m1s learning, it never fills
Probably because most people have been done with the tier for a while :c I think chaotic will be a great opportunity for you! As long as you hop in when its fresh. The ilvl for it is supposedly going to be 710 minimum.
Yeah, unfortunately every dungeon is essentially the same dungeon, just with a different aesthetic. I really wish they'd do different things with the dungeons, although some of the boss fights can be pretty fun. As for savage raiding, I've been wanting to give it a try but spending hours just to learn one mechanic does *not* sound like my idea of fun.
I think you should give extremes a try, and if you like that, maybe move onto savage! I dont think the entirety of savage is spending hours to learn ONE mech... I feel like the way it goes is most mechanics people progress through after wiping maybe 3ish times to it till they finally figure out their exact spot they need to be or what was killing them, but there is usually always one mechanic that everyone refers to as "the wall." This is the mechanic that *most* people struggle with, and if youre in PF and you're esp unlucky, then yeah, that one mech will take hours of prog. But i think overall they take a while because each mechanic can take a few tries to get right, and even if thats not 1 hour per mech, that time still adds up. I would say savage is worth a try -- you dont have to keep doing it if you dont like it. You can always just jump into PF, spend as much time as you do or dont want, and if you dont enjoy it well there ya go.
The scariest part of party finder raiding is realizing there are 8 idiots in your group instead of 7.
LOOOOL
Truly the biggest step any raider must take.
Mostly just 1 idiot is enough. I get scared just by that.
Can confirm am idiot 😁
lmfao best reply ever
Thank you very much for the shout-out! This is definitely a good starting point to get into savage!
Interestingly as almost a polar opposite to your way of getting into savage, I got into FFXIV as a way to step away from the more hardcore focus of raiding in WoW, which meant I had plenty of experience with the more general concepts of hard content, but little to no interest. I did savage raid for some time in Shadowbringers, even as raid leader, but the main reason I got into hard content again in Dawntrail was because some of my friends really wanted to go 😂
Of course, *having* experience with hard content means that your opinion or knowledge on the content will be more believable or trustworthy, but sometimes you will also just meet people that will move the goalpost, because they are just looking for a reason to disagree with you. "You did the newest extreme? Well its not savage." "You did the newest savage? Oh well by the point you did it you already had i730 from tomestones." "You did an ultimate? Well it was harder when I did it" And so on and so forth. What I mean is that I think a super important aspect for you is to make sure you are doing savage (and other hard content) mainly for your enjoyment, and not to satisfy those players. The rest can appreciate your opinion as it is, and if it is sound and reasonable, they can believe it without you backing it with a parse or something! 🤣
Also in regards to the pronunciation of my name, I think you got it pretty good! It is sort of meant to be japanese-sounding, so Ka-e-tsu for instance, but most just call me Cae, which sounds a bit like 'kay but where you lean into an E sound instead of a Y sound! 😁
I think one thing ffxiv raiders mainly like experienced raiders will joke and say this I know for a fact I have I never mean it though I have definitely though seen this truely meant and it feels like the reward for completing whatever you completed kinda got thrown down the drain
I found your channel some time ago and really loved it because I felt you did such a good job at sharing really helpful information! And yes, there are def people who will try to discredit you no matter what you do.... Ive had commenters say my opinion isnt valid because "this is only your second tier youve completed" (even though the first one I did included p8s, the fight everyone keeps referring to as one of the hardest savage raids but okay) as well as stuff like picking on my parse! I always DID want to raid anyway, because the NM content is just too easy for me and as a healer i need something to make me push those healy buttons. RUclips just ended up being the push i needed to overcome my fear of PF xDD Now, I raid casually on and off as I feel like it.
I think also a really good thing to mention about PF that was kinda mentioned or I forgot is its all your time I know as myself a Hexa legend I spend my time hopping in a lot of PFs Ive seen it all it feels like at this point good and bad but the biggest thing is you arent obligated to stay in a party if you have to do something irl you have to which makes it best for people with non consistent schedules so if you only have like a hour of game time can hop into something for a hour and call it good where as statics are set times that people cant make.
I really appreciate your video. The timing is scary. Just started Storm Blood and have unlocked some savage raids. And I've been terrified to try them
It will be a little difficult to get into these as unfortunately there isn't a large community doing the older raids unless they do them unsynced. Usually it's easier to find groups to do it synced via discord but you can make a PF and ya never know, people might join. You'll just have to specify if you plan to do it synced or not.
Having done Bozja with the Dalriada and a bit of Endwalker Savage, you've helped me feel better about trying to join the new Chaotic raids!
Good vid as always!
For the record I enjoyed your content even without the raiding. But glad the channel gave you the push you needed!
wow youve been around that long?!
@@Aitherea yeah, since the time when you had 2-300 subs I think? I've always liked your vids even when they weren't FF14 related.
@@idno4856 omg what a real one!!
@@Aitherea
I started savage raiding in the last tier of Eden. What got me going was learning The Extreme was the phase 2 music. (FF8 fanboy since childhood). Since then I’ve lived in and out of PF.
This tier I decided to start my own with a couple of friends and STRESSED that new players are absolutely welcome. The only requirements I made were that it was a blind prog group and the desire to play and learn. The gear will come. The skill will come. Blind progs are the most fun for us because it makes for some hilarious moments in figuring out why someone exploded and if it was due to a mechanic or a malicious tank (hello I am that tank), but it’s also super rewarding when we figure out our own way to do a difficult fight. The first step is always the largest, but it becomes easier with like minded players
Happy to see you expanding upon this! :D Definitely taking notes, gonna start progging the harder stuff in the new year
Thank you so much for this! I'm still in post-MSQ Endwalker so I haven't had a chance to try savage, and I can tell there's still a lot to work on to get ready. At least now I have an idea of what to work on!
Really recommend Caetsu Chaiji’s content. I started playing a little over a year ago and with help from him and his discord community I worked up to clearing my first savage tier.
as someone who watches, it's Cae Tsu Chaiji, altho i have to admit it made me giggle, good vid overall :D
I got into savage raiding with this current tier. My main motivation was the glowing ultimate weapons and to get into that need the savage experience. Also being in med school I wanted a game I could fit into my routine to blow off steam neatly, and having a static with 1 day of prog a week has been amazing and beneficial for my productivity.
I looked for a casual static in ERC and I was very lucky to join a wonderful group with really nice vibes. Since we prog only 1 day a week we going slow but hey I’m finally at m4s and it’s been awesome so far.
As a healer main can definitely recommend EX3, it really encapsulates leniency and the flow of a 1st/2nd fight in savage and EX1 specifically for healer checks (tho maybe less now cause of better ilevel)
Time to strap in and start doing current extremes 🎉
Every time I setup a PF I always make sure to make it noob friend with a Safety Dorito to help ^^ and if its a EX trial its a clear/farm Always for all members . How I got into it was easy I just wanted harder content to clear ^^
i always thought older expac extremes were the long-sought after secret lower-end midcore fights people have been calling for! for example starting with something in the 50-70 range, the dps check will be very watered and you have less buttons to worry about on the hotbar. plus while you might have to wait a bit for a party to fill (but at least be on the pf dc of your region), they are usually more chill since people aren't expecting everyone to have the fight on farm (unless the pf for some reason says so)
just did my first ever extreme Sphene's burden and it was actually a lot of fun. the hardest part was finding a party with good synergy lol.
Not really interested in Savage raiding, but I do like the Alliance Raids, they're chaotic in the best way!💜
And now we get a truly chaotic alliance raid next week.
Me being a baby sprout watching this just nodding along (I understand nothing)
It’s quite the journey starting to do savage and high end content. Back in Shadowbringers I didn’t think of getting into savage. I just wanted cool mounts. And saw that Extremes had them. So I started doing Titania Ex. Wasn’t so bad, not much harder than a normal raid. But then Seat of Sacrifice came out. And that was where I learned a lot. After that I wanted to beat every ShB ex to get the mecha dragon mount. And after that I went to O12S unsync. Back in ShB you couldn’t melt it yet. And had to do a couple of important mechanics. The Limit cut of Omega F and M and then in the second phase Hello World, or goodbye world if you were doing the sac strat. XD Unsync and all that was my first savage fight and it felt awesome to clear it. :3
Surprised you didn’t mention not being dishonest about your prog to get ahead in a group, that’s the main thing that causes tension with more experienced people, just be honest about your prog
Oh, that's what burst window means
I got the mentor mount about a year ago.
But I still feel almost like a fraud whenever I ride it because when it comes to extreme or savage I'm always too nervous to try unless some friends push me into it 😅
That’s the trick Mark, you don’t! 😂
Little baby Savages!😂
8+ hours dumped into ex3 and can't get a group through ice bridges. Haven't had this much trouble clearing an ex since hades.
Lol, nah, Extreme and Savage are definitely beyond my skill level. Hell, I struggled to do Shadow of Mhach and have never been able to clear Coils of Bahamut synced, and with everything I've been told about Deltascape and Return to Ivalice regarding their difficulty, Stormblood marks the point where I had to finally stop doing even "Normal" content if the equivalent stuff in Realm Reborn and Heavensward still gives me trouble. Hell, even the Stormblood MSQ had fights I had to redo because of mechanics I couldn't keep up with on top of being made to look weak and useless story-wise (I really did not feel like the sort of person anyone should be asking to liberate nations after getting tossed around by Zenos, and beating him later just felt like an unexplained ass-pull), or how Eureka was an automatic skill check and nope'd out, and the end result was that whole expansion being a confidence nuke, lol.
Raiding and other hardcore content is just a different beast meant for a different part of the playerbase, and that's fine, but I'm not going to pretend any longer that it's something I can do even on the most basic level and I'd rather not be a plague on someone's Normal & Alliance Raid roulette now that I've unlocked Deltascape and Return to Ivalice and can't undo it.
Tbf, I really don’t think anyone cares how many times someone dies in Alliance raids. There’re just too many players for anyone to focus on. This holds especially true for Ivalisce where everyone thinks there will be a 60% chance you’re all eating a wipe.
Fr, nobody cares if you die in ally and normal raids, youre not holding anybody back at all by dying in those.
I think you should continue to try all of the normal mode stuff. Yes, you're not ready for savage and maybe that's something you'll never feel comfortable/want to do (and that's okay), but there's a lot of really fun content with cool rewards that is considered content for everyone at every skill level. Dont be afraid to try any of the alliance raids, bozja, eureka, or any of that stuff. Like these other commenters said, no one really cares if you die, and a lot of people will be willing to help (or carry) you through stuff because most people really just dont care in normal mode fights if theres some random person floormatting lol.
I'm in this boat as well. I lack the talent to even think about stepping into ex or harder. I just have a hard time understanding some normal fight mechs. Jeuno is as far as i'll go and thats pushing it. I just want to get through 1 run without dying on every fight.
I don't know about that, I thought i was terrible because my negative mindset plus a bad experience so avoided savages and even extremes for awhile but then did extremes and cleared savages. Just takes practice really ex and savage were designed to be cleared by anyone I'm pretty sure.
Welcome.
and well met, my brave little spark.
Just be prepared PF can be... difficult.
Miserable? Awful? Draining? Make you grow hatred for humanity? Or is that just me 😂
I HATE Savage Raiding. Specifically M3S, cause NO ONE IS AT THE PROG LEVEL IM AT (Fuse or Foe). I can taste enrage and I really want to get a clear.
I want to raid, but I play on console. I can't type very fast with controller if i need to ask questions. So that's the main reason I haven't gotten into raiding.
If you get a small USB keyboard, it can be connected to your console to seamlessly type in the chat window with no techy jank inbetween:)
I play on Ps5 have done savages, you don't need a pc to raid
Playstation and Xbox both now also have Discord integration so you can jump into a discord call while you are raiding as well.
I didn't do PF raiding, when I started. I immediately jumped into a static by founding my own with my wife. But it was not sugar and rainbows. We started in the first Endwalker tier. The group had four first timers and four veterans. We cleared P1S and P2S quickly, but on our first day on P3S, after one hour of tries, the caster rudely claimed that there are 3 people here that shouldn't do savage raiding. He left and took the other veterans along. Well, we first timers carried on recruiting, and eventually we managed to form a group that still exists. Few members have since left for their own reasons, but my group is still solid, and we have met and become friends in real life too. Today, I raid with my static around twice a week and I also do PF raiding with my Au Ra girl alt (my main is a cat boy).
Most of people call it...."familly". ;)
@@cyphi474 Dominick is that you
Ironically I started raiding out of spite. I initially started raiding during the first tier of Eden but I was bullied out of my static due to my performance (I just started the game at the time). That really impacted my self esteem and I didn't think about raiding again until Abyssos. I wanted to prove it to myself, and the asshole that bullied me, that I could do it. After months of struggle in PF I managed to clear Abyssos as my first raid tier and was ecstatic. Snake memes be damned!
A few months later I managed to clear UWU and now I'm about to jump into DSR and FRU. I like to think I proved them and myself wrong.
i think it's natural to be kinda bad at the game if youre a new player, but that doesnt mean you arent capable or that you deserve to be bullied. Literally just means you need the opportunity to learn, and that's it. I'm confused as to why the static would even accept you in if they weren't okay with a new player xD
Oof, I did o12s as my first savage and the clapping i received made me not try anything non casual even extremes until shadowbringers, my first cleared was abyssos as well 😀 gratz on the clear and fuck snake memes lol that was painful.
@Aitherea He certainly knew I was still new player at the time, we were in the same FC while I was progging the msq. I'm guessing he expected me to get up to speed faster than I did, or he needed to be an asshole to someone and I was the unlucky contestant. Hard to say really. I do chuckle every once in a while, I snoop on his profile now and then and he still hasn't cleared any savage tiers. It's the little victories.
Feel like the chaotic raid will just become a toxic, gatekept raid after week. Hope I'm wrong, but Yoshi-P and team suck at midcore content. Also I despise Bozja.
The relic being through a new kind of bozja is pain yeah
I have not delved into savage content yet. But I can do all the current extremes basically blindfolded.
Anytime I try to get a pf going for m1s learning, it never fills
Probably because most people have been done with the tier for a while :c I think chaotic will be a great opportunity for you! As long as you hop in when its fresh. The ilvl for it is supposedly going to be 710 minimum.
Yeah, unfortunately every dungeon is essentially the same dungeon, just with a different aesthetic. I really wish they'd do different things with the dungeons, although some of the boss fights can be pretty fun. As for savage raiding, I've been wanting to give it a try but spending hours just to learn one mechanic does *not* sound like my idea of fun.
I think you should give extremes a try, and if you like that, maybe move onto savage! I dont think the entirety of savage is spending hours to learn ONE mech... I feel like the way it goes is most mechanics people progress through after wiping maybe 3ish times to it till they finally figure out their exact spot they need to be or what was killing them, but there is usually always one mechanic that everyone refers to as "the wall." This is the mechanic that *most* people struggle with, and if youre in PF and you're esp unlucky, then yeah, that one mech will take hours of prog. But i think overall they take a while because each mechanic can take a few tries to get right, and even if thats not 1 hour per mech, that time still adds up. I would say savage is worth a try -- you dont have to keep doing it if you dont like it. You can always just jump into PF, spend as much time as you do or dont want, and if you dont enjoy it well there ya go.