As both a Fallout fan and a Zelda fan, I feel like I can finally understand the pain of those who grew up loving Fallout 1 and 2. BotW and TotK are great games, maybe some of the best open world games on the market, but they’re not the Zelda I know and love anymore.
yeah, I get it. When I got to the Wind Temple in Tears of the Kingdom, I popped off, because I thought we were going to get another Sand Ship. I was then immediately disappointed to find out it was basically just a reskinned Divine Beast. Not to mention the fact that dungeon is a disgrace to it's name. The Wind Temple from Wind Waker is, in my relatively unimportant opinion, one of the best dungeons in the entire series, it didn't deserve to share a name with a reskinned Divine Beast
Luckily for me, BotW finally got me wrested away form Zelda 2 because they actually followed up my favorite one with a 3D game. so, uh. A lot of OoT fans over here, huh? Not that I can complain, they did give me lot of Metroidvanias taking after Zelda 2. ...By ruining my even MORE primary favorite, in Classic Castlevania games. And I can always play that Megaman X game with Samus that MercurySteam made, they're not not busy making Megaman games with Simon.
Which is good since the series is evolving rather than being stagnant... I find the old Formula boring tbh fornthe most part aside from puzzles and story (But then again it's a Zelda game so story is a mixed bag anyway)
One of many reasons I prefer Twilight Princess over Breath of the Wild is because of the hidden skills/combat moves we learn from the Hero Shade. It spiced up the combat and allowed a variety of sword and shield skills that help most fights standout as opposed to BotW where you either mash the Y button when time slows down for a flurry rush. Yes I said it, TP Hidden skills > BotW Flurry Rush
Also it's a lot better when you get the claw shot and double claw shot it just feels a lot more rewarding and fun to reach new places then just climb everywhere
Yeah, too bad a lot of those hidden skills you don't need. Especially when the enemies aren't designed around that, to the point that having them is redundant and or overkill. And honestly, it really didn't help them stand out either. Hell, you never end up in a situation where one skill is more useful to use over the other, or just useful over normal sword swings as well. Like, if you're not going to accommodate, or rather provide the reasons to use the hidden skills, via tougher enemies with possibly better ai. Then there's little to no reason to be having them in the first place. And no, the Cave of Ordeals isn't a great way to doing it either, with sometimes it's unnecessary large number of enemies, and not much room at times. In fact, it sometimes highlights how clunky it's combat is, with how slow sword swings are, and enemies tracking your movement a bit too much to have side hop be even useful at all to get the hidden skills started. So no, BotW Flurry Rush > Hidden skills. For as a wise man once said "keep it simple, stupid."
@@byronlyons3548 Twilight princess's combat is better because you can actually use the joystick to do horizontal or vertical slice/thrust easily, and the hidden skills are an added bonus. Helm splitter, back slice, man theres so much shit you can combo with its easy. TP has a flourish at the end of every battle you can do if you want as well. Best system by far. botw dumbed it down to a redundant combat system. Only one move you can do, I prefer that over mashing y. Sounds like a skill issue to me
This video makes me feel so seen. Ive explained this same kinda thing to people multiple times only to be met with confusion. I genuinely loved both Breath and Tears but i want the next game to have more of that classic formula. Expanding upon it, yeah, but not losing sight of it
Or better yet just make two different styles of games.Make the classic 2D/3D Zelda and make the open world style as well.Maybe have another studio work on the older Zelda games. I want another game like Twilight Princess again where the game is heavily structured and has long dungeons that take at least up to an hour to complete with an item in each of them.
They’ve literally recently made a 2D. They made ocarina and majoras basically the same and still switched the formula. You sound like you’re just bitching and don’t actually need to be heard..
I agree, I love botw, and tears of the kingdom, but they feel like a separate genre of games to more traditional zelda games. I love TOTK, but it doesn't compare to windwaker or Twilight Princess.
For me it's not just Legend of Zelda, I feel a lot of games are abandoning the linear format. And, I miss it I grew up with linear games and now suddenly everything is about exploration and freedom. Which there's nothing wrong with that, but I miss just picking up a controller playing a few levels and feeling I made progress.
I mean... There are a lot of linear games coming out this days. But I've always felt that for Zelda linearity was a bad thing. Those games were supposed to emulate an adventure but felt like a TV series where you spend an hour trying to find a way to watch a new episode.
I really do feel as if both needs could be met. Both old and new. But that’s just me. We did get that Link’s Awakening remake and that was great. Hell I’d be happy if they did the Oracle games or even Minish Cap like that too. But that’s just me.
Unfortunately that really isn't possible, because Classic Zelda and New Zelda have pretty much diametrically opposed approaches to fundamental game design. Classic Zelda is typically structured like this: >You need a plot coupon to advance the story >Getting the plot coupon involves going through a dungeon, but the way to the dungeon is impassable >You get an item that allows you traverse the path leading up to the dungeon >About halfway through the dungeon, you get another item that is integral to completing the second half of the dungeon >Use the item you got at the halfway point to beat the boss and obtain the plot coupon >Collect all of the plot coupons to unlock the final dungeon It's a structure that enforces a very rigid sense of linearity, because almost always the two items you get in each cycle are integral to tackling a lot of the challenges that come after. This is very much opposed to how modern Zelda prefers to approach game design. The new games just chuck you into a big, open world and tell you "Go wherever you want, whenever you want, and do whatever you want. It's your world and all these NPCs are just living in it." Even TotK's attempt to compromise with fans of the older games by having a more linear story structure results in a narrative that is fundamentally broken if the player decides to do things "out-of-order".
@@HunterStiles651 Obviously OC doesn't mean both in the same game, just to make both styles instead of abandoning the classic formula for "the new hotness".
I'm more than happy with just having a linear story in an open world. I get why they're trying to keep the story more loose so as to not restrict the player, but it does impose limits on how much you can do when it has to have interchangeable order to the story beats.
The story in this game was really shafted by this. Every time you complete a dungeon, you get this Imprisoning War spiel, but told by a different sage in the exact same manner as the last. The fifth was a bit of a breath of air in that regard though because she at least talked about more than just the Imprisoning War, but you’d already know all of it if you’d just done the dragon tears quest.
Finally, people have finally gotten into their heads that the reason other open worls games have linear stories is because that is the best most effective way to tell a narrative. If you want a free, you get to do what you want game, don't expect an amazing narrative. And if you want an amazing narrative, don't expect a non-linear progression because it is impossible for both to co-exist.
@@zleeven not really agree. I'd love to have a more linear narrative, but with totk the main problem, if we don't want to completely rethink how they made it, I think is that they didn't commit enough to their openness. Like, the separate dungeon quest, the cutscenes from the ancestors, the geoglyph....they made all of them in the most safe, repetitive and boring manner, while they could have done literally anything else to make them feel interesting on its own without a linear narrative.
OMG YES! I am with you all the way. I can respect what BOTW and TOTK did. I just really prefer the Old Zelda style. I agree it felt soo good getting dungeon item that genuinely helped me feel like I was progressing. BOTW and Tears gave you everything at the start but a lot of the times its way too overwhelming to the point I have no idea what to do.
I used to mock TP for being lame, but given the story it did a good job making a lot of the things you do actually matter. Even just killing the evil bugs had such a large contribution.
@@DarkEclipse23 Did it though? Tell me again, outside of Collin that one moment, who saved the kidnapped kids and girl? Certainly wasn't Link, I'll tell you that right now. Not to mention their lack of contribution to the story entirely.
@@byronlyons3548 they are villiage people. Simple country folks. What the fuck do you expect them to do my boy. Collin needed a story arc because he was clearly closed to link. Link himself is the hero.
I absolutely adore Tears, but the dungeons left me wanting. They’re just exploration puzzles again, with none of the puzzle and combat progression the older dungeons had. Even having a unique miniboss to fight at the midpoint, even if it didn’t give a cool item anymore, would help a lot, I think.
Like the Water Temple in TotK, the puzzles are pretty well designed, but it's a little disappointing that this temple is literally just a square with one puzzle on each corner and a boss fight at the center.
Not to mention that they all have that same structure with "You need to use 5 switches to open the boss room, use the same abilities you got at the start of the game again". I really miss stuff like controling the water level for vertical exploration, destroying pillars to reach the upper floors, turning everything upside down, etc.
I dread of what they might learn from totk success. I really hope they don't really want to abandon the old formula completely, but like...integrate the best of he new and old.
I REALLY hope the next Zelda game dials in the best parts of the botw format and classic zelda. I want a big, open, detailed world like totk, but I also want a better, more involved and linear story structure, too. I want classic Zelda dungeons, I want old mechanics like finding hearts and rupees in grass and pots, better items that can be unlocked later in the game rather than being handed them at the start. Something more akin to the structure of Majora's Mask, but with the massive world like botw.
I feel like the best way to balance this is have something like Wind Waker where the main game itself is pretty linear and you don’t need to go off the beaten path much, but if you do there is a huge world to explore with tons of things to do and discover.
@@alexanderackerman3807 Absolutely. Having better unlockable items would also encourage you to go back to areas you've been to get into every nook and cranny.
While I do enjoy being able to unlock the main abilities at the start, I agree about wanting to unlock abilities through the story. It felt like there was a sort of progression towards how you play in game. Also, I want shrines gone and heart pieces back. Getting rupees from quests is just a boring reward sometimes and getting a heart piece for completing a quest just felt more rewarding. They could do the same with stamina pieces as well.
@@Allustar The shrines need to go tbh. They genuinely bog the game down. Hearts and Stamina are better quest rewards. Maybe even add a weapon craft/repair feature, the rewards in this game all feel so temporary.
I think it is because shrines feel like they took you away from the inmersion because if those puzzles could be integrated in the worls somehow or they could have built more dungeons, even __optional__ dungeons with a compulation of all the puzzles from shrines interconnected and using keys to progress instead of activating switches.
The greatest thing about any new zelda game prior to BOTW was just being in the overworld or dungeon and seeing a way you can’t progress and getting all excited wondering what new item I was gonna get to bypass it all.
I think we will eventually get back to more "traditional" Zelda games eventually, but I think there will be a drought of them for a while, similar how there was a drought of traditional 2d Mario games after Super Mario 64 came out, but eventually we got the New Super Mario Bros series around 10 years after Mario 64 came out. (Granted Super Mario Maker has kind of put the future of 2D Mario back into question but I digress).
Breath of the wild and tear of the kingdom are the two best selling Zelda game actually Zelda could started to rival Pokémon soon in mainstream if the new game continues to sell like this
@@gregoryfuller9736 But should profits determine the fate of the series? At that point, Nintendo themselves would be no better than The Pokémon Company International.
@@TornaitSuperBird considering how expensive games are to produce and the goal of producing a game has always been about making a profit. So yes it should. It would be stupid to expect otherwise.
@@TornaitSuperBird Tears of the Kingdom is a well-made game that has taken six years to make. Pokémon poorly made due to rushed development. You cannot compare the two games. The series was dying before Breath of the Wild, so it needed to change to keep up with the time.
What made me love the 3D Zelda games was just how unique each dungeon was, especially when it came to using the unique dungeon item. I will also say that the past games could have thrown in some curve balls in how to use previous dungeon items to solve puzzles in the next. BOTW was okay, same with TOTK, though I think that the durability system is much worse in that game. I guess that I wish we could have a crafting system where we assemble past items, while the game is more open. For example, finding pieces to upgrade the weapons. Bosses are okay.
you know, there's a couple things I heard a while ago that this brings to mind. The first is a line from Max0r's Doom Eternal "review" where he says, "it's refreshing to have a game that sets out to do one thing the best, and have developers who actually give a shit about linear design and gameplay." The other one, that's actually what I first thought of, was a thing I heard someone say once that went something along the lines of, "when the developers know the path you're going to take through the game, that means that path can be much more designed than if you're presented an open world.
Thank you for talking about this. This is something I've been worried about myself. I haven't played Tears of the Kingdom yet, but I did recently complete Breath of the Wild. During that hellish grind, it got me thinking about the traditional Zelda games and how much I loved those games. At one point, I'd consider Breath of the Wild one of my favorite Zelda games, but now, I'm not sure. It's not a bad game. Far from it. It's just that I miss the old Zelda, especially since Nintendo is dead set on milking Breath of the Wild dry. They gave us DLC for Breath of the Wild, a Warriors style, quasi-prequel spinoff with Age of Calamity, DLC for that game too that nobody talked about, and now Tears of the Kingdom which will undoubtedly get DLC as well.
Botw is as barebones as it gets. Ruins with no meaning copy and pasted everywhere. Enemies with no rhyme or reason for their placement. The worst durability mechanics in gaming. All rewards for exploration are either meaningless or a korok seed or a shrine. Copy and pasted mainstory with same meet elder, meet descendant, get into divine beasts, reboot computer, fight paint ganon. No option to listen to classic zelda music for 99% of the game. Final dungeon can be completely skipped. Puzzles are mostly basic physics that never evolve due to the game never progressing your arsenal and everything being required to be doable from the start.
In a recent interview the Zelda team said they had so much fun making this open world. There find it difficult to go back to the old formula but it's not out of the question in my dream Scenario there both live side by side
As much as I love Botw and Totk, I like once I finish these games I don’t feel like coming back to them for a couple of years while the old style games I tend to come back every few months, is it nostalgia? Perhaps. Its something that I’ve wondered since Botw came out because once I finished the game, the dlc, and master mode, I just felt that something was missing. Totk kinda filled that void, but I can’t help but to feel that there is still something off or that I just miss having a story be just as important, who knows. I do believe that both versions of Zelda can work as one game, its just we haven’t gotten to that sweet spot yet, and I can’t wait to see where the Zelda games go from here, but I can’t help but to wonder if there is still a future for a linear Zelda.
I'm not yet convinced they will commit to a 'new standard' for the series, I think their philosophy will be to keep zelda moving forward in new and interesting directions which will incorporate elements from across the series.
The issue here is that traditional Zelda fans have become, in the span of only a single game, a small minority of the player base. 13% to be exact. Here's the math: Before Breath of the Wild, 3D Zelda games sold on average around 5 million copies. From that, considering "Skyward Sword" sold 3.6 million, we could roughly determine the amount of Zelda fans who would like to see the old formula return would be 4 million (being the remaining million people who either grew tired of the series formula or never quite liked it in the first place and stuck to the series for other reasons). BotW sold a whopping 31 million copies, and I wouldn't be surprised if it still managed to sell one or two million more. And TotK is obviously gonna reach those numbers, if not surpass them. The only question about it is if it will achieve that on its own or with a Deluxe edition of sorts for the Switch successor. Well... 4 million is roughly the 13% of 31+ million. The entire traditional Zelda fan community could leave the series for good and Nintendo would barely feel it. Couple that with the fact that the Zelda development team is obviously very excited about the new direction of the series and...Yeah, traditional Zelda is pretty much dead and buried. Nintendo just doesn't have any incentives to create Zelda games that would potentially alienate what's now 87% of their audience.
I feel like the LOZ fanbase is turning into the DC fanbase. A very loud vocal minority vs a silent majority. U got a group of fans that say they like the old iteration, but when they get it, not enough of them show up to buy it.
I just wish that the Zelda team continue both styles of gameplay and create new games with the old and modern Zelda formats. They have made remakes of the old Zelda formula (like links awakening) and by extent TOTK is an expansion of BOTW. But I just want to see them create new and more original games using these two formulas of modern and old, combining the two styles of gameplay would be optimal but I wouldn’t mind if they published a new game that focuses on only one of the two styles.
Im fine with the new formula but I would love to see older items come back especially the hookshot and since you can make a flying machine in this game the hookshot wouldn't really be that gaming breaking.Thats all I really want.
I totally agree with you, especially since i'm in love with BoTW and Tears and how they handled those games but i've also gone back recently to replay Link Between Worlds on my 3ds and it just made me want a new zelda game in that classic style.
My friend and I were playing Twilight Princess the other day and we both agreed there needs to be a bit more close-ness with the locations. Sure, open worlds can be fun but a lot of the time it gets stale.
i think that they almost got there, but they went just shy of what they needed for temple exploration. the temples themselves were moreso getting from a-b then unlocking a gate in a tedious manner. lets say the fire temple had you rapidly changing tracks using the goron or the water temple had platforming puzzles that required you to time your water and use it carefully it might have felt like older zelda a bit more, but when movement is so free, it's incredibly hard to make something as restrictive as a dungeon fun. you can fly around, scale mountains, and kill a god. if they restricted it too much to require you to use your ally, it would have felt tedious beyond how tedious getting 5 keys in every dungeon already felt. i'd say that they could have possibly shoved the 4 powers from the starting area off to the dungeons to make it slightly more linear as you wanted, like shoving ultrahand in the water temple, then putting ascend in the wind temple. personally i would have loved more powers than what they gave as ascent felt very weak as one of the powers and za warudo was quite powerful by comparison allowing for fast traveling, situation assessment, and threat neutralizing.
Yeah. Most franchise have tried a “Lets do it differently then normal!” Approach and honestly the only two games I like who done that recently is three houses and cyber sleuth
I’ll be honest, I’m not the biggest fan of the barren wastelands to explore in the form of Breath and Tears’ style. It’s a mile-wide, but only an inch-deep. Not helping is keeping almost all the exact same locations as Breath, defeating the point of exploring for anything new, and no, caves don’t count since they’re so tiny add very little. I’m glad to see dungeons return, but I’d be happier if they were actually a return to form, rather than just being the Divine Beasts, but bigger. Not repeating the same exact cutscene about the Sage’s awakening would also help. Weapon durability is and always will be a mistake in my eyes. If you’re gonna have rigid and shallow combat, you can’t also make a bunch of arbitrary weapons that don’t mean anything since they’re all used exactly the same way. Having the Master Sword run out of power was especially bad since it undermines the point of getting it. Lastly, we have the fact that the Dragon’s Tears storyline completely spoils stupidly important information so easily, to the point it creates massive redundancies in the plot, or worse, massive plot holes, like how you already find out where Zelda is and realize these visions of her around the place aren’t really real. That should be something you figure out through progressing the plot, not something you can do at any time and in any order. I don’t hate the game; but I don’t believe it’s at-all worth $70. It feels too much like glorified DLC for Breath, and not at all like it’s own game.
Honestly I don't think the old style will be gone forever, The Era of the Wild is sort of special in the way that being in the wilds allows a lot more freedom because of the world it has, maybe there will be more smaller scale games in the series, but honestly its really hard to see where Zelda will go from here, I think seeing what they do will be the best way forward, and going back to appreciate the older games while also enjoy EoTW games is the best way, I'm excited to see where Zelda goes next and I'll be here for it.
My biggest fear is that Zelda will devolve into an Ubisoft Assassin's Creed 😢 it already basically already is, towers, pointless grind like collecting Korok Seeds, even the Shrines (Zelda Krazoa spirits) are boring. I miss the days when exploring in Zelda actually gave you rewards, I miss the feeling of how that new item you got in a temple opened up new opportunities for exploration. I miss the excitement of opening a new chest not knowing what new key item I would get. I miss memorable side quests with memorable characters. I miss the lore, and thematic dungeons. I miss actually feeling something for the game, this game feels like a shell used to store cool gameplay mechanics. Quantity over quality...the old Zelda is dead and we killed it. BotW and TotK are fun and I'm glad so many people enjoy them, and I'm glad they are keeping the franchise alive, but they don't have the Zelda tone and feel I love. It's so conflicting. Honestly I would have preferred if they had released TotK as DLC instead of a new game because my expectations would've been lower. I wish there was some middle ground... Edit: Thanks for the video glad to see more people with similar feelings.
I wish the story didn't take a hit in both games. Like some parts are really interesting while others feel a after thought. The gameplay is super fun but the story feels like it's interesting sometimes but mashing buttons so I can go back to perfecting my death roomba. I missed out on really important Zelda information in my first botw playthrough because I didn't find her and the King's diaries. Sometimes story context slips through the cracks.
I had an idea where each dungeon cen be visited in any order and they all have a dungeon item, but near the end of each dungeon there's a door that you just can't go through, even with the item in the dungeon, the way to get through that door is by returning to that dungeon after the first half of the game where you've gone through every dungeon and use the dungeon item from a completely different dungeon and whatever mid-game upgrade you could get from completing all the dungeons to finally open that door, revealing an entire second dungeon that combines elements from the main dungeon and the dungeon that the other item came from. So for instance in some sort of ice dungeon you'd get a fire rod halfway through it, and near the end the door would need, for example, the hookshot you get from the wind dungeon to open the door. This new combined dungeon could be a gauntlet of freezing gales and blinding blizzards
I feel like TOTK gives you too much freedom in exploration to the point that it just becomes a chore. You can usually go from one tower to the next just skydiving. The depths are absolutely tedious as well once you build a hover bike and spend a few hours just lighting it up. The entire mine cart gimmick of the fire temple can be skipped by building stuff. Every shrine that requires you to hit a target with something can also be bypassed using bomb arrows. There's no challenge in figuring out how to get from point A to point B when you can just whip out autobuild to solve the puzzle for you. Midna's ass is also not in TOTK, which is a big letdown.
I really think that if they committed to it, with a focus on preventing feature creep, they could give us a good-feeling Zelda game in the new style. For example, the Wind Temple in TotK absolutely starts when you first use Tulin to cross the fallen ruins. Everything from there out is part of the temple, design-wise. But it gives you a LOT of freedom in that section, and it feels like it’s an organic part of the rest of the game. Honestly, the “actual” temple where they give you a checklist feels _less_ like a temple because of how it restricts your freedom. I really think if they hadn’t had the whole physics-sandbox aspect to TotK eating up development resources, there’s a chance the game design could’ve been really special. (And I’m not ragging on the building, it’s the most fun part of the game, but it isn’t _Zelda_ ). Here’s hoping the next one gets that right amount of ingredients.
I can't lose my self in such am empty boring lifeless world. Instead of costumes out of a them go back to transformations lot more fun and it would open up new ways to fight like mm did But if they do make a food one let us go back to the old pink hairstyles like Ocarina time links-style Twilight princess style ect maybe even let it be pink
I think. Zora’s domain did it best across both games. In botw the zora coming to find you actually sold the threat the divine beasts supposedly were instead of just another minor annoyance. Then when you get there not only do they already know who you are weaving you into the greater narrative but in both games you get the zora armor the only piece of required armor (vai set, extreme cold, and flame guard) that feels more like a tool than a gimmick. The ability to ride the various waterfalls allows for so much exploration that it literally makes you reevaluate your route to hyrule castle.
My first thought on finding a synergy between old and new and how link becomes stronger through finding tools in his journey makes me remember Purah from botw. Before she was a thirst trap for the community, she was how we upgraded the Sheikah slate. What if it was something to that effect? Like say another game comes out with the Wild formula. You get your bread and butter powers, get used to them in the tutorial, and the early overworld, and finally get to your first dungeon. And there you find ways you can't access as you are. Until you find a podium that adds to one of those abilities you started with, turning how you used that ability on its head a little. To use Kamen's example, you start with the ability to ascend, but after going through the dungeon you can start descending as well. And the boss makes you creatively use that power to get the weakness. Like the arena is made up of various platforms that you have to asend and descend through to dodge attacks and hit weak points. Just my first thoughts on the matter, but in my mind, it kinda synergizes old and new game mechanics.
Did you forget about Skyward Sword having Hookshots? They aren't really gone at all. In fact, they are still present in the remake of Link's Awakening. Remote bombs aren't really needed in TotK, like, regular Bomb fruit work just fine. And, are you still having skill issues with the weapons system? The fuse system makes the breaking not annoying, an in fact nice to expect, to test out new fusion combos
There's things I like about classic Zelda and things I like about BotW and TotK. I liked the item based progression, but hated how situational items were ontop of only being useful in their own respective dungeons. In that matter I much prefer having all the abilities from the start. Though, I do prefer classic dungeons, I prefer the way TotK handles puzzle solving, but I absolutely despise shrines they're not an alternative for dungeons they just suck. Instead of having self contained puzzle boxes, bring back classic labyrinthian dungeons and use concepts from the shrines to build a full fledged temple instead of whatever we got Speaking of things I hate the memories can also go, it's evident Nintendo has been using them as a crutch to try and replace narrative advancing cutscenes. I'd much rather the game have a bunch of flag checks for where in the narrative you are that triggers certain cutscenes then to have to collect memories of an interesting story I won't get to play a part in or have to watch what essentially amounts to the same cutscene 4 times with 3 redskins because Nintendo couldn't be bothered to write a rising action. All in all, both have their ups and down. Classic Zelda overworld sucked and were just basically hub world's inbetween dungeons while BotW and TotK took the opposite approach and have you spend more time in the world then dungeons. If the next Zelda could actually address the story and dungeons it'd be 10/10
People really overstate how well executed the items were in the 3d games. When not done well, you get an arbitrary key that is used to lock a series of doors and nothing else. When it comes to even the coolest items like the spinner, that happens to alot of weapons in series. The thing about this is that at least imo, the 2d games struck this very balance. They had fun dungeons that didn't detract from the world, weapons that were consistently useful more often than not, and an interesting world with enough content to keep you engaged without taking you from the main objective. Really, the only thing they lacked was the grandiose visuals the 3d games have to offer.
@@lukebytes5366 That's what makes the sentiment traditional zelda elements wouldn't mesh well with the open air approach even more baffling. you only need the hookshot to beat almost every temple in oot and half the time you can just do your own thing in almost any order. Most of teh games before BOTW with items in dungeons hardly utilized said items outside of dungeons which also makes the devs sentiment of the formula becoming stale or being far too restrictive also very baffling as well.
I realise I'm in an extreme minority here but I can't stand all the survival mechanics added in BOTW, the weather related stuff being my personal least favourite, they more or less completely ruin the game for me to the point where I genuinely lost all interest in buying Tears of the Kingdom. So yeah while I don't have any ill will towards the many people who do like the new style (except the ones who DDOSed that one reviewer's site back in the day for the crime of merely liking BOTW instead of worshipping it) I do miss the older Zelda games.
What I just miss is feeling like it matters to complete a dungeon. Yah in BOTW you just. Stop them from being rampaging. But they’re just. Isolated most of the time. It isn’t like MM where you purified the swamp, or stopped a raging blizzard and brought spring to the mountains. Or saved your buddies in kokiri forest. Filled up the lake in lake hylia. Idk. I mean probably the spirit temple had the least impact but still. I miss how great it felt making a difference to others by completing dungeons. Or the sense you were finally reaching a goal like in Links Awakening. There was always a story element that mattered. Otherwise it just feels like it doesn’t matter in BOTW. Beating the dungeon doesn’t really do anything only than letting you beat the game.
@@anthonystuart5724 It’s the same shit different game and you didn’t understand a lick of what I was saying. For a game to have that would require to have an actual story, not just pissing around for 30 hours and doing a semi larger sidequest that is a stand in for the main story. You can literally type in any zelda game that has a fleshed out story because the areas matter. Even Majora’s Mask, a game that is literally 80% side quests has a main story that surpasses the newer games. You know why? Because doing shit there actually mattered. Otherwise it’s just the same bullshit of BOTW where “ganon’s stds are all over the place… it sucks … that’s the story”.
I’m not lying? This person’s complaint was that completing the dungeons in BOTW didn’t have an impact to the characters in the overworld. Completing each of the four dungeons in TOTK has a tangible impact on the map and NPCs. To give one example (minor spoilers), when you first reach Zora’s domain, it’s completely covered in sludge that makes traversal difficult.All the NPCs are complaining about it and trying to find ways to stop its progression. Completing the dungeon destroys the source of the sludge and the NPCs and region changes accordingly. The new dungeons still don’t have the classic structure, but saying that beating them impacts the overworld is objectively true.
Kamen has a point. Linearity allows for more structure and tools to be used in dungeons that are massive labyrinths that test your navigation skills, puzzle solving and combat prowess. Totk only provides a tiny bit of that: The Fire Temple. That's the only one that really tests your abilities and skills as a player. The older dungeons in past games were more linear and had only 1 solution, but because they were designed around certain elements, themes, items, and concepts, it meant that those puzzles could be larger, grander, and more complex than whatever TOTK and BOTW did with "find 4-5 switches and hit them to fight the boss in a giant box". Another thing is there's no progression in difficulty. Each of the dungeons feels like a differently themed dungeon with the same puzzles. Of course they're different fundamentally and they use different assets, but they don't really get any harder because you already have the tools necessary to beat them all from the beginning. It makes for a good first dungeon, then... several other first dungeons with a few changes that don't force you to improve your problem solving skills. Also Yes. Mineru best goat wi-- *gets sacked*
I know the Zonai are supposed to be goats but whenever I look at them, they don’t ever feel like a goat at all. Maybe a chimera in a sense of more then one creature in one? I think I’ve heard it’s a mix of goat, lion and supposed to be a dragon but now snake but the dragon would make sense for the Zonai I guess.
I wouldn't mind seeing a blend of BotW/TotK and the classic style. Personally, I've never really been the biggest Zelda fan. I've played the original, LttP, and dabbled in OoT and MM, but the games never really stuck to me. It wasn't until Breath of the Wild that I finally clicked with the series. Yeah I know I'm one of those people, but the style just sat with me more than the classic style But like I said, I'd like to see a blend of the two styles of Zelda games because it could definitely work, and I'd love to see what kind of puzzles they could make following those design philosophies
I have a daughter and, when she's old enough, I'll introduce her to Ocarina of Time and then possibly Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and eventually the new games, depending of what she's into and would rather play.
Personally, the things that would draw people to the new style, I get from Minecraft. If i want full exploration and full creativity i go to a sandbox game. Thats not what i want from Zelda. And it seems Nintendo no longer has any interest in delivery Zelda games that have what i want.
I swear to fucking christ every big budget AAA game these days are all the same fucking couple of games with a different skin. They’re all botw clones, assassin’s creed checklists, crafting n survival/free roam-Minecraft or just cod gun fests and I’m fucking SICK of it! Videogames becoming super mainstream and run by MASSIVE shareholder corporations was the worse thing to happen to the medium. Creativity goes there to fucking die and join a corporate conglomerate these days.
Yeeeah I recently turned on my N64 and played a bit of OoT (it was a even a 1.0 cartridge!) and the title screen theme with Link riding Epona in Hyrule Field just... teleported me back in time. Made me realize that despite loving both BotW and TotK, it lost a few things that made the old style really cool... Like finding heart pieces through side quests or exploration, shrines are fun and all but you always get the same thing you know? Imagine if shrines gave you different stuff, like some give heart pieces, others give stamina, or armors, etc etc. There are times I see the quest mark on a NPC, but I see myself avoiding those because I know that most of the time I'll get rupees or materials, or meals.... There are some "major side quests", those are cool and usually unlock some cool stuff, like the Goddess Sword from SS or even a full Heart/Stamina Container, but are so few and far between :(
I suppose it's a bit different than commenting about gameplay 'n such, but I've always felt it was rather off-putting that the newer games seemed to have forgotten some key elements, like the Tri-Force itself. I also have always liked the use of instruments in the games, or some sort of musical element, but as these games came out, it sort of seems like they've forgotten about that. I may not be the biggest Zelda fan out there, but to me, some of the core elements of the series were of Music and Magic, in the recent installments; it seems they forgotten about its own roots in some way.
I just wish they would be rid of the worst durability mechanics ever conceived. All it adds is unnecessary grinding and it forces you to only one playstyle while constantly interrupting the flow of combat. Its just a constant nuisance and people need to stop defending it or pretending that the game wouldn’t work if I wasn’t forced to constantly treat my weapons like disposable trash instead of allowing me to play how I want. Makes no sense for how much they praise this formula for freedom to simultaneously praise such a restrictive mechanic
Although interviews have said that BotW will be the formula going forward I don't think it's set in stone. And with open world being the current fad (in no small part thanks to BotW) it will make future open world Zelda games feel a bit redundant. You can only really play one open world game at a time, and once you get through it you'll probably be burnt out on huge worlds for a while, which means that adding to the number of them in the market might not be the best map to follow while they're currently everywhere. Especially since with so many open world games, people can find the one that uniquely appeals to them the absolute most. I think that when open world stops being chic, Zelda will PROBABLY move its main series away from it, although it's also possible that they'd stick with being "the" open world game. But with the staff seeming to keep a finger on the pulse of what the fans like they probably will also implement more of the old aspects that people miss. Personally I have elected to pass on TotK. I really enjoyed BotW but felt that its issues of the overly simplistic combat and a lot of abilities that were really redundant and ultimately just there for people to mess around with looked to either be not changed in TotK (the combat) or actively made less appealing to me with a significantly expanded focus on things that I didn't engage with like item combination (I didn't even bother with the cooking for most of BotW) and vehicle building (I thought the flying machine with magnesis was neat but felt that it was more trouble than it was worth). The difference in items brought up here is vertical vs. horizontal game design elements. It's the difference between for instance Twilight Princess where your Master Sword "upgrades" come in the form of special combat techniques that increase your options in combat versus how BotW's upgrades to things like the Master Sword or the bombs come in the form of increasing damage or the recharge speed. Both forms of progression have pros and cons and it's almost impossible to make a game without implementing vertical progression unless it's a very simple game like a platformer but I'm personally way more into horizontal progression. I don't think it's so much an issue of railroad vs. sandbox although needing to design the entire game around the assumption that the player might engage with something with starting gear can prove to be a problem. It kinda forces all the upgrades to be vertical in nature because they don't want to roadblock you with "you need the hookshot here". What that results in is a rather simplistic game system. I will give props to Nintendo for making TotK actively expand on the things that the biggest fans of BotW liked about BotW but I wasn't one of the biggest fans of the game. With the gameplay systems not appearing to have improved the things I didn't like and only really expanding on aspects I didn't engage with, it comes across as not something I'd want to drop $70 on.
1:44 And yet the regular bosses (at least the two I've fought so far) are just easy gimmick fights like you're playing the first few fights of a Jojo's part from Part 4 onward (Mucktorok was more annoying than hard). Once again the world bosses save for a few possesses more of a challenge (Taluses have become trivialized by the addition of being able to Ascend into them and Flux Constructs are gimmick fights that require Link's new abilities to defeat, with the first kind requiring ultrahand, the second requiring ultrahand and recall and the third ultrahand and ascend)
Dude. Zelda games were meant for everyone. Not people with no lives and time to kill like you. Simplicity is often heavily underrated. When you grow up from your apparent age of 5 you’ll understand that.
My only Zelda experience with it is Botw, and don’t have the experience but know about the lore and gameplay from friends. When I was playing Breath of the Wild, it was gathering supplies and fetch quests. The few times I was growing is anything fire based Or visiting Goron City but that more necessity. But the shrine puzzle and divine beast did made me feel smarter solving them with some the divine beast had me confused on the mechanics. I might not know Zelda but know Pokemon. Sword and shield was linear but had the classic story elements and world building from the classic games. SV made me feel lost running around with the only thing guiding me was gyms and when I fought Geeta it was lack luster because I had forgotten who. I remember Larry and Rika more… Everything was separate until they converged in the end. The only game I felt did it write mixing open and linear was Legends. It made me explore and fall in love with the characters. Every new area had new items, learning how to dodge, and had classic pokemon feel. And when it was time came to fight Volo, it made me want to protect Huisi. Tear of the Kingdom was a game that was given to me as a friend, I haven’t played it but excited. Wait Moblin repellent real… Can I use it?
The zonai devices in Tears of the kingdom sorta fills that old role of finding new items compared to Breath of the Wild that really didn't get anything new, but after playing the game a bit longer it does feel a bit like the game is missing part of what made classic Zelda great. Like, the random treasure chest still giving mostly junk. There were also quite a bit of junk items in older Zelda games but sometimes they threw in some collectibles to mix things up. The sage items kind of fit that in Tears of the Kingdom but they are few and only seem to be in random sky islands. Most of the dungeon treasure chest and underground things I've found so far are still just bundles of arrows. I've bumped into a couple arena areas in the depths that give unique armor pieces which is a bit of a treat, but it still dosen't feel as great as finding that new exploration item you'd find in older Zelda games. I'm glad other people are missing those old items so maybe there's hope future Zelda will add them.
Honestly, I am more a fan of Top Down Zelda and Breath of the Wild Genuinely bored me. It doesn't help the large open words aren't exactly dense. Little to no incentive for combat, enemies spread out far apart, places of interest spread even farther apart, and even after exploring to your heart's content, by the time you want to get a move on to the main event, it becomes an exercise of patience. It's like being in a playground with a MASSIVE sandbox that makes up 85% of the playground with the slide and swing set being at opposite ends, and having no toys or water to play in this sandbox due to some weird ban. The novelty will eventually wear off and become really boring. Without the proper toys and enough things to play on, the whole thing becomes a rather shallow.
Thats the issue with most open worlds in general and why i wish a lot of devs didn't look at open worlds as a way to just make larger areas only and cared a lot more about content and environmental design on top. On the bright side a new awesome open world is coming out soon called granblue fantasy relink where its being marketed around its environments and online coop on top of gameplay.
Links awakening remake is the most recent 2d zelda There are like oodles of extra content exclusive to switch not featured in the other 2 But yea 2d zelda kinda dying which sucks bc link between worlds being my 2nd fave zelda
Bro, Links Awakening remake was released 4 years ago. Link Between Worlds was released 10 years ago. For the Zelda series, which is often known for slow releases that is a substantial amount of content. Where is this conception that 2D Zelda is dead? These two games are some of the finest entries in the series, and just because Zelda doesn't release as much as Mario or Pokemon, doesn't mean that 2D Zelda is going away.
I feel the same way. The biggest thing I came to the Zelda franchise for was the dungeons. No other game series really does them the same way, and the last few Zelda games didn’t either. The Zelda formula I fell in love with died with A Link Between Worlds, where they axed finding items in dungeons and instead had you rent them.
I kind of came into Tears of the Kingdom for the story. As much as I like the gameplay, I've seen it before in BOTW and so I look to story in order to keep my interest to not make me feel like I just bought the same game twice. Sure, we have the Depths and the Sky, but they're not as in depth as the main map. And when it came to the story, honestly, I was slightly disappointed. With BOTW it was all about Link and his journey to reclaim himself. Tears, though, he wasn't really doing it to regain his past it was to dick around and watch someone else's story unfold. I told my BF that this was the first game that for once Zelda had the more interesting story going on than Link. And I had this sentiment that I'd rather be playing Zelda exploring this ancient technological Hyrule than following Link as he travels around collecting her vacation photos and feeling the FOMO. I haven't beaten the game yet, as I've mostly just been dicking around getting as much as I can from the experience. But I feel like Tears limits itself being a little too similar to BOTW, following its formula. That's what I felt the most while playing was that despite there only being two Open World Zelda games it didn't branch out the methods to get the story elements so beyond any other Zelda game, it felt formulaic. Skyward Sword has been my favourite Zelda game. Beyond all the others I owned, that was the one that I kept coming back to. I keep being told it's linear and boring as gameplay, but honestly, I don't need exploration to enjoy something. Experiencing a new version of the world is good enough for me. Seeing how this land transforms itself as the millennia passes. Plus, the fact that there were new creatures unique to Skyward Sword due to how ancient the story was felt fresh and exciting. I was charmed by the world, the characters, and the story SS built up that I didn't mind the linearity. If anything, it kept me grounded in what I was supposed to do. The older, linear games are still good, and for good reason. I can only hope that the original Zelda in some way does continue on and that BOTW isn't the new standard for every single title moving forward, at least not to the extent it was for TOTK.
The BotW and TotK approach brought the games back to what the game was attempting to be, IMO, not so much trying to be a level by level progression but a game about exploring. Unfortunately it's really hard to have that and lateral power ups at the same time, because the power ups will end up constraining things towards linearity. It's... Really tough to let go of either Zelda. I don't want new Zelda gone, but also don't want old Zelda gone, but Nintendo is finding that players are hugely enjoying these open games with reception of four of their major franchises only having one not shift to open world, which is amusingly ironic since it was one of closer ones to the open world ideal to start with: Metroid has you wandering around and expanding your world to wander around further, after all. It's... Odd. I'm curious about how they move forward from here.
I agree. *be been playing ToTK since launch day, exploring whenever I don't have work, but I've found myself playing this like it were OoT or SS. I'm still thinking of the game being linear, even though it's open world, meaning I keep forgetting about the depths. It's a negative of growing up with OoT and TP, and something I'm struggling to break. Not to mention the amount of hearts feeling like they matter little when an enemy can 1 shot kill you, even if you have the top row of hearts nearly filled, something that in classic Zelda made me feel stronger, but in BoTW and ToTK, I feel as weak as when I started
If we could blend the new with the old it would probably be the best game again. I can't remember what site it was, but they had only given a perfect 10 to 8 games in their entire reviewing place, and Legend of Zelda had managed to score 4 of those slots.
Two things about BOTW and TOTK is that they expand on and were inspired by the ideas of the original Legend of Zelda; It's why you see a lot imagery of the Original in the advertisements of BOTW. The post Link to the Past formula would work as well in that context. The original was very open and you could do dungeons in almost any order the main caveats were the dungeons that had over world, and the occasional items that were necessary to reach a dungeon boss or defeat a later one like gohma. The closest is the Dungeon 5 where you need the dungeon Item to defeat the boss Diggdogger. ALTP only follow the classic formula itself occasionally in Eastern Palace, Palace of Darkness, Swamp Palace and Skull Woods. Desert Palace and Misery Mire use their dungeon item once for a roadblock, The rest unlock progress outside of their dungeon or a just nice to have.
I love the old zelda types even the 2d zeldas what made a zelda title a zelda title compared to something like Mario was that it was more story oriented. Both have you saving a kingdom but zelda had more reason to save the kingdom and when breath of the wild came out I was disappointed. I still am. It feels so much of a cop out of what a zelda title intales. Sure you can choose to grow stronger but each place you get excited seeing is either a shrine a korok, a guardian or a camp of enemies it just annoys me, it makes the world feel more barren in the variety of challenges that the dungeons provided. Each Devine beast and shrine looks the same. We can chalk it down saying the shieka are the creators so they should look the same but it gets stale before the 20th shrine. It's the same with most open world games. It doesn't even feel like a change of gaming history. I enjoy tears of the kingdom more but not much. It's got dungeons but those still feel like Devine beasts and not dungeons. Nothing like the best dungeons, skyward sword. There's something about how zelda stories just do better than a lot of different games from different companies do. I don't mind doing dungeons out of order even in the later half of ocarina you could do this to some extent even in link to the past. As long as you still get to see the story. Zeldas memories made me feel like this isn't me as a character. Zelda cut scenes are usually something that takes place right before or after an event that makes you feel like they want you to take a breath while still being that character. I feel the need to say everywhere for the next zelda I want my classic zelda, twenty hearts, midevil adventure green tunic 8 dungeon crawling experience. They can be out of order I don't care just let me have that story.
One thing that I never understood about these games is why are the Runes given to you at the beginning? What if you got them During/After clearing a dungeon? I though we were getting something life this with all the Sage's Abilities, but all of these abilities can be replicated somewhat in the game with tools/Materials. I don't hate that the runes are available after clearing the Tutorial Island, but if this was Old Zelda, you would get these overworld traversing abilities by clearing Dungeons. Minish cap is my favorite 2D zelda and in that game, you constantly get Map-Traversing gear each dungeon (Gust jar which allows you to push lilypads as boats, Bombs to bomb rocks/Caves, Cane of Pacci which allows you to flip Enemies and turn pits into Jumping holes, Mole Mitts to dig the soil and Cliffsides). I understand most people get frustrated when the solution to the puzzle is that "You need to play the game/Story more", but it basically turned Zelda into a Metroidvania of sorts due to these barriers that require items.
The runes are given to you at the beginning because the designers wanted to make sure that you have all the basic tools you'll need to explore - And some of them can be well used for traversing and they don't want you to miss these tools.
I find this really poor design, fit for the poor writing. I think Hidemaro Fujibayashi is actually working double-duty as writer-director and kinda leaving these games unwritten, since his good games before Skyward Sword had a separate director. Classic Peter Principle. In particular his credit as Planner for Oracles, four Swords, Minish Cap. I don't enjoy the Link Between Worlds approach, but for the majority that does it seems obvious this should have been the formula used here. But not much talent seems to overlap between these productions. Not that I enjoy the requirement to use always the dungeon acquired in the same dungeon, I find it jsut as antithetical to openNESS of the world, as frankly open world does. I feel the world feels MORE vast when there's executions like the Sand and Water Temples in OoT, not that you can "openly" roam between them, but WHEN you do it doesn't feel hard-locked to a progression. The worst open-world to me feels like there's a million different options in going to the WRONG direction, and everything jsut halts anyway until you grit your teeth and do the route a linear game would force you to play. This makes all the sidequests busywork that basically just exist to level you up and make the difficulty progression 100% trivial. But solution to these problems already exists, just don't pander to players' IDEA of an obvious open world, that they jsut get bored of and use fast travel. Plan your game like a system of caves, not a field where you can fly anywhere. Not even physically, you can also lock it to to time, or plot events. I dream of an RPG where the only way to progress is unlock special attack comibinations during grinding, so the overworld traversal is REPLCAED with stopping running in circles during battles. Grinding is only bad because YOU do the equivalent of doing the same thing like running circles in the overworld.
for me it is fun exploring open world games but there has been something that occasionally happening. its hard to explain but its kind of like information overload. you are going to your objective, and then suddenly go "oooo! a piece of candy!" and then it repeats till you start saying "oh. another piece of candy." till you start to wonder "when will it end?!" sure back when i was a bit younger i had enough energy to complete a lot of skyrim. but it is starting to really exhaust me a bit with some stuff almost connects endlessly. i love tears of the kingdom i do. i am just pointing out a thing that games just seem to just do that can seem a bit exhausting and it is making the game have so much play time, whether it is by adding a lot of stuff to do. or padding out the play time by putting in time gates. LOOKING AT YOU WARFRAME!!! that game almost infamous with time gates at times. and grind. to an extent.
I feel like instead of cutting out traditional zelda games entirely, they can give it to another studio like capcom (who has made a minish cap one of my favorite games and a very unique entry to the series) to make a traditional style zelda game with a top down style like alttp or lbw and they coulr fill in the gaps in the timeline between the old games and botw
My dad got me into Zelda, fav game of all time so when I play these games it brings a lot of memories but only with the traditional way. I can’t get into the new style, not it’s just not for me but hey my dad loved breath of the wild but hates TOTK. At least he got into one of them, I can’t
I think there is one big reason for Nintendo to still make classic Zelda games (at least when rereleases emkaes dry up) is because of the MUCH shorter development Cycles. Now I dont think we will see a traditional from the core Zelda team anymore, they will be making the big boy, but I think we will see other devs or even 3rd parties like when capcom did Seasons games producing more traditional titles. I do think Links Awakening Remake does serve as a recent reminder, and sure we see new classic zelda after TP\WW HD are ported along with 3ds OoT\MM. That said, 3d classic zelda I have more doubts of seeing than 2d gameplay classic zelda. I think 2d classic zeldas will still get made because they are so much faster as quick between releases. 3d classic Zelda is sort of pushing costs+time,
Personally I hope not I think Skyward Sword is actually the best path forward for it focusing primary on the story as that's something that the BotW open air format will never be able to do better as you can't control the story's pace in an open world without limiting the player Nintendo did say they want a Zelda game every year and so far the only one they missed was 2022 where they originally had TotK Having 3 if not 4 game types (if they keep doing Warriors titles)2D, Story focused 3D, and Open Air 3D it would help the series not get stale with their desired pace considering how long TotK took Also you're the first person I've seen simp for someone who isn't Purrah
I definitely agree with you, in that while I like the style of BOTW and TOTK, I"d also like some more linear progression focused ones that can have some really great dungeons like in TP and SS (say what you will about Skyward Sword and its linearity, but it had some of the best dungeons in the series). Unfortunately, recently Eiji Aonuma pretty much confirmed that they will only be doing the open world style going forward, and practically insulted any fans who want something different...
The funny part is, when more and more games try to emulate or build upon the open world formula, people will get tired of over-saturation with open world games. If the Zelda team really wants to make a new genre that lasts for years to come, they need to give the best of both sides. Mix open world with linearity, let the overworld be fully open (some puzzles and stuff locked away behind progression items, but not entire areas), and let the dungeons be linear (but be done in any order besides the final dungeon)
Ok, controversial opinion, but i feel a lot of Nintendos newer games lost their magic in some way. Animal Crossing New Horizons was lackluster for all the new stuff it adds. Fire Emblem Engage put too much emphasis on gameplay instead of story and characters. Pokemon...well. If you know, you know. Like, am i alone on this? It just feels like every Nintendo game recently has been missing something to make it excel. Either because they changed it too much or did not put in the effort to make it feel like a triple A game. Even though TOTK is still fun. Just having you play that Groose scene at the beginning of the video makes me want to play Skyward Sword again because Link was so expressive and emotional compared to this iteration. It just feels like he always has a stick up his ass. Is that too mean? Oh well...
I feel like totk tried to improve by giving us some of the old feel back the bosses are definitely an upgrade to botw and their temples feel more like the ones of old but the breakable weapons and lack of items still feel like they are going away from the series roots and that saddens me a bit I genuinely love totk and I’ll put it in top 10 but not top 5
Personally i think TOTK is overrated. I probably would have liked the game more if more than the lightning temple felt like a traditional classic zelda dungeon. And if they got rid of the durability mechanic.
I agree with the sentiment of losing a part of what Zelda was with BotW and TotK. I do love the open-world of these games, and I dont want to lose that, I want to keep it. But I want to return to older style Zelda games, even with their linear design. Honestly, the system from *Link between Worlds,* where you could rent items, then eventually own them and upgrade them, was a unique idea, and if implemented in a BotW style open world, where you have actual dungeons with heart and soul, but you dont need to tackle them in dungeon A, B, C, D, ect. order like past games would be perfect. Hell, I already had an idea of how to implement it: Have the starter versions available outside of the main dungeons, then have upgraded versions inside the dungeons. That way, you dont have to get the hookshot from dungeon B in order to get to dungeon C, yet you still have progression in you items, through finding superior versions that allow you greater avenues of exploration. BotW has alot to offer to the franchise, but I hope Nintendo doesnt take the wrong lessons from BotW and TotK successes and use them going forward for every Zelda title.
Idk, I thought there was enough exploration and dungeon crawling in BotW to keep engaged and wanting to play how I want. With regards to the Blights, their designs are still fairly unique. The temples difficulty could increase and your equipment gained from temples and enemies would improve, the further you traveled. Hell, some temples require solving puzzles outside the temple. The flashbacks gained from dealing with the Divine Beasts and key landmarks give you an idea of what life was like in the past and those who survived offer insight into the progression of time.
The BOTW/TOTK formula has every right existing and I love it. But i really do miss the old Zelda formula. When the Switch was announced I was hyped, because I thought the handheld and home console teams would be developing on the same console. This would've been the perfect opportunity to continue the traditional 3D zelda formula while the main team works on TOTK. It really would be nice if they could coexist
Something that bothers me about BotW at least (haven't played TotK yet, Switch is broken.) Is that, if you took away ALL the Zelda imagery, names, and characters.... It doesn't feel like a Zelda game. Heck, Star Fox Adventures has more of a Zelda formula than BotW does. I dunno, I just kinda miss traditional Zelda games. But, we know we won't get those anymore. They said the next game will continue this formula. So... more LoZ: Nuts and Bolts I guess. =/
I would like to think that we're getting close to a marriage of the two styles. Traditional Zelda-style storytelling, and free-roaming exploration. If they happen to do another game in this format I would love for them to play around more with temples/dungeons maybe more than the 4 we got in the past 2 games. Maybe make a full-on forest temple in Korok Forest instead of just having an arena fight with the new baddie that instills fear in new players. Maybe have a temple that was once a Shiekha holy ground that you have to liberate from the Yiga clan in a gauntlet of stealth and combat as the Shadow Temple. I miss having a myriad of dungeons and temples to raid and fight kooky bosses.
Let's not forget that we've also gotten remakes/remasters of older Zelda games this gen too. I think it could be possible that the new formula can co-exist with releases of games that follow previous formulas.
I think there could be a perfect mix of both linear and open world, where it has the feel of older zeldas but in a much more open world. To me I think that would what I would want.
i feel like they should use a link between worlds formula a bit more. it did the open world on the 3DS as much as you could do it anyways) and still had dungeons themed around the item, tjough in this case you could get the item whenever you wanted and do the dungeons in whatever order you wanted to do them
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Long story short: No, but in the brand name Zelda yes. zelda has a reputation to only release excellent S tier AAA games
Comments are good for the RUclips algorithm.
Can you do a video about characters that are supposed to be hated?
@@shanardsmith5624 You leave it vague if you mean supposedly are hated or are meant to be hated.
@@sboinkthelegday3892 thank you for addressing this to me.
As both a Fallout fan and a Zelda fan, I feel like I can finally understand the pain of those who grew up loving Fallout 1 and 2. BotW and TotK are great games, maybe some of the best open world games on the market, but they’re not the Zelda I know and love anymore.
yeah, I get it. When I got to the Wind Temple in Tears of the Kingdom, I popped off, because I thought we were going to get another Sand Ship. I was then immediately disappointed to find out it was basically just a reskinned Divine Beast. Not to mention the fact that dungeon is a disgrace to it's name. The Wind Temple from Wind Waker is, in my relatively unimportant opinion, one of the best dungeons in the entire series, it didn't deserve to share a name with a reskinned Divine Beast
i havent the heart to play fallout 2 and ruin the view I have of 3 and NV
@@8-bitsarda747thunder temple is good and so is fire there’s still a little glimmer
Luckily for me, BotW finally got me wrested away form Zelda 2 because they actually followed up my favorite one with a 3D game.
so, uh. A lot of OoT fans over here, huh?
Not that I can complain, they did give me lot of Metroidvanias taking after Zelda 2.
...By ruining my even MORE primary favorite, in Classic Castlevania games.
And I can always play that Megaman X game with Samus that MercurySteam made, they're not not busy making Megaman games with Simon.
Which is good since the series is evolving rather than being stagnant... I find the old Formula boring tbh fornthe most part aside from puzzles and story (But then again it's a Zelda game so story is a mixed bag anyway)
One of many reasons I prefer Twilight Princess over Breath of the Wild is because of the hidden skills/combat moves we learn from the Hero Shade. It spiced up the combat and allowed a variety of sword and shield skills that help most fights standout as opposed to BotW where you either mash the Y button when time slows down for a flurry rush.
Yes I said it, TP Hidden skills > BotW Flurry Rush
Also it's a lot better when you get the claw shot and double claw shot it just feels a lot more rewarding and fun to reach new places then just climb everywhere
Yeah, too bad a lot of those hidden skills you don't need. Especially when the enemies aren't designed around that, to the point that having them is redundant and or overkill. And honestly, it really didn't help them stand out either. Hell, you never end up in a situation where one skill is more useful to use over the other, or just useful over normal sword swings as well.
Like, if you're not going to accommodate, or rather provide the reasons to use the hidden skills, via tougher enemies with possibly better ai. Then there's little to no reason to be having them in the first place. And no, the Cave of Ordeals isn't a great way to doing it either, with sometimes it's unnecessary large number of enemies, and not much room at times. In fact, it sometimes highlights how clunky it's combat is, with how slow sword swings are, and enemies tracking your movement a bit too much to have side hop be even useful at all to get the hidden skills started.
So no, BotW Flurry Rush > Hidden skills. For as a wise man once said "keep it simple, stupid."
Yessss
tp has by far the best combat system in the series, botw/totk has a to easy and boring combat
@@byronlyons3548 Twilight princess's combat is better because you can actually use the joystick to do horizontal or vertical slice/thrust easily, and the hidden skills are an added bonus. Helm splitter, back slice, man theres so much shit you can combo with its easy. TP has a flourish at the end of every battle you can do if you want as well. Best system by far. botw dumbed it down to a redundant combat system. Only one move you can do, I prefer that over mashing y. Sounds like a skill issue to me
This video makes me feel so seen. Ive explained this same kinda thing to people multiple times only to be met with confusion. I genuinely loved both Breath and Tears but i want the next game to have more of that classic formula. Expanding upon it, yeah, but not losing sight of it
Or better yet just make two different styles of games.Make the classic 2D/3D Zelda and make the open world style as well.Maybe have another studio work on the older Zelda games.
I want another game like Twilight Princess again where the game is heavily structured and has long dungeons that take at least up to an hour to complete with an item in each of them.
We used to get top-down 2D Zeldas while still getting the newer style 3D ones. I'd like to just add the new ones to the mix.
They’ve literally recently made a 2D. They made ocarina and majoras basically the same and still switched the formula.
You sound like you’re just bitching and don’t actually need to be heard..
I agree, I love botw, and tears of the kingdom, but they feel like a separate genre of games to more traditional zelda games. I love TOTK, but it doesn't compare to windwaker or Twilight Princess.
@@Ghost-ul8eu Or better BETTER yet, make even more games and print the box with a different IP so we know which is which.
For me it's not just Legend of Zelda, I feel a lot of games are abandoning the linear format. And, I miss it I grew up with linear games and now suddenly everything is about exploration and freedom. Which there's nothing wrong with that, but I miss just picking up a controller playing a few levels and feeling I made progress.
I mean... There are a lot of linear games coming out this days. But I've always felt that for Zelda linearity was a bad thing. Those games were supposed to emulate an adventure but felt like a TV series where you spend an hour trying to find a way to watch a new episode.
@@justmusiciaan not completely. "You feel" doesnt equate to "it is" zelda is a game and a game is its gameplay hence the term. Playing. Games.
@@Goosewitdajuice317 I'm stating my opinion here, not telling you the ultimate objective truth. That's why I've used the word "feel".
I really do feel as if both needs could be met. Both old and new. But that’s just me. We did get that Link’s Awakening remake and that was great. Hell I’d be happy if they did the Oracle games or even Minish Cap like that too. But that’s just me.
Unfortunately that really isn't possible, because Classic Zelda and New Zelda have pretty much diametrically opposed approaches to fundamental game design. Classic Zelda is typically structured like this:
>You need a plot coupon to advance the story
>Getting the plot coupon involves going through a dungeon, but the way to the dungeon is impassable
>You get an item that allows you traverse the path leading up to the dungeon
>About halfway through the dungeon, you get another item that is integral to completing the second half of the dungeon
>Use the item you got at the halfway point to beat the boss and obtain the plot coupon
>Collect all of the plot coupons to unlock the final dungeon
It's a structure that enforces a very rigid sense of linearity, because almost always the two items you get in each cycle are integral to tackling a lot of the challenges that come after.
This is very much opposed to how modern Zelda prefers to approach game design. The new games just chuck you into a big, open world and tell you "Go wherever you want, whenever you want, and do whatever you want. It's your world and all these NPCs are just living in it." Even TotK's attempt to compromise with fans of the older games by having a more linear story structure results in a narrative that is fundamentally broken if the player decides to do things "out-of-order".
Same!
@@HunterStiles651 Obviously OC doesn't mean both in the same game, just to make both styles instead of abandoning the classic formula for "the new hotness".
@@HenshinFanaticlikely to have a a few of both in coming years..
@@blindedjourneyman seems more like highly unlikely at this current time.
I'm more than happy with just having a linear story in an open world. I get why they're trying to keep the story more loose so as to not restrict the player, but it does impose limits on how much you can do when it has to have interchangeable order to the story beats.
The story in this game was really shafted by this. Every time you complete a dungeon, you get this Imprisoning War spiel, but told by a different sage in the exact same manner as the last. The fifth was a bit of a breath of air in that regard though because she at least talked about more than just the Imprisoning War, but you’d already know all of it if you’d just done the dragon tears quest.
Finally, people have finally gotten into their heads that the reason other open worls games have linear stories is because that is the best most effective way to tell a narrative. If you want a free, you get to do what you want game, don't expect an amazing narrative. And if you want an amazing narrative, don't expect a non-linear progression because it is impossible for both to co-exist.
@@zleeven not really agree. I'd love to have a more linear narrative, but with totk the main problem, if we don't want to completely rethink how they made it, I think is that they didn't commit enough to their openness. Like, the separate dungeon quest, the cutscenes from the ancestors, the geoglyph....they made all of them in the most safe, repetitive and boring manner, while they could have done literally anything else to make them feel interesting on its own without a linear narrative.
@TornioD care to elaborate becuase everything your are complaining is cause by the openess the game has.
OMG YES! I am with you all the way. I can respect what BOTW and TOTK did. I just really prefer the Old Zelda style. I agree it felt soo good getting dungeon item that genuinely helped me feel like I was progressing. BOTW and Tears gave you everything at the start but a lot of the times its way too overwhelming to the point I have no idea what to do.
“Twilight Princess being one of my favorites” BASED
I used to mock TP for being lame, but given the story it did a good job making a lot of the things you do actually matter. Even just killing the evil bugs had such a large contribution.
@@DarkEclipse23 Did it though? Tell me again, outside of Collin that one moment, who saved the kidnapped kids and girl? Certainly wasn't Link, I'll tell you that right now. Not to mention their lack of contribution to the story entirely.
@@byronlyons3548 they are villiage people. Simple country folks. What the fuck do you expect them to do my boy. Collin needed a story arc because he was clearly closed to link. Link himself is the hero.
I absolutely adore Tears, but the dungeons left me wanting. They’re just exploration puzzles again, with none of the puzzle and combat progression the older dungeons had. Even having a unique miniboss to fight at the midpoint, even if it didn’t give a cool item anymore, would help a lot, I think.
Like the Water Temple in TotK, the puzzles are pretty well designed, but it's a little disappointing that this temple is literally just a square with one puzzle on each corner and a boss fight at the center.
Not to mention that they all have that same structure with "You need to use 5 switches to open the boss room, use the same abilities you got at the start of the game again". I really miss stuff like controling the water level for vertical exploration, destroying pillars to reach the upper floors, turning everything upside down, etc.
I dread of what they might learn from totk success. I really hope they don't really want to abandon the old formula completely, but like...integrate the best of he new and old.
I REALLY hope the next Zelda game dials in the best parts of the botw format and classic zelda. I want a big, open, detailed world like totk, but I also want a better, more involved and linear story structure, too. I want classic Zelda dungeons, I want old mechanics like finding hearts and rupees in grass and pots, better items that can be unlocked later in the game rather than being handed them at the start. Something more akin to the structure of Majora's Mask, but with the massive world like botw.
I feel like the best way to balance this is have something like Wind Waker where the main game itself is pretty linear and you don’t need to go off the beaten path much, but if you do there is a huge world to explore with tons of things to do and discover.
@@alexanderackerman3807 Absolutely. Having better unlockable items would also encourage you to go back to areas you've been to get into every nook and cranny.
While I do enjoy being able to unlock the main abilities at the start, I agree about wanting to unlock abilities through the story. It felt like there was a sort of progression towards how you play in game.
Also, I want shrines gone and heart pieces back. Getting rupees from quests is just a boring reward sometimes and getting a heart piece for completing a quest just felt more rewarding. They could do the same with stamina pieces as well.
@@Allustar The shrines need to go tbh. They genuinely bog the game down. Hearts and Stamina are better quest rewards.
Maybe even add a weapon craft/repair feature, the rewards in this game all feel so temporary.
@@alexanderackerman3807 oh yes, you get it my guy!
First.....
I really hope Nintendo really still makes old Zelda style games.
0:58 Ahh a man of culture.
I think it is because shrines feel like they took you away from the inmersion because if those puzzles could be integrated in the worls somehow or they could have built more dungeons, even __optional__ dungeons with a compulation of all the puzzles from shrines interconnected and using keys to progress instead of activating switches.
The greatest thing about any new zelda game prior to BOTW was just being in the overworld or dungeon and seeing a way you can’t progress and getting all excited wondering what new item I was gonna get to bypass it all.
I think we will eventually get back to more "traditional" Zelda games eventually, but I think there will be a drought of them for a while, similar how there was a drought of traditional 2d Mario games after Super Mario 64 came out, but eventually we got the New Super Mario Bros series around 10 years after Mario 64 came out. (Granted Super Mario Maker has kind of put the future of 2D Mario back into question but I digress).
Breath of the wild and tear of the kingdom are the two best selling Zelda game actually Zelda could started to rival Pokémon soon in mainstream if the new game continues to sell like this
@@gregoryfuller9736 But should profits determine the fate of the series? At that point, Nintendo themselves would be no better than The Pokémon Company International.
@@TornaitSuperBird considering how expensive games are to produce and the goal of producing a game has always been about making a profit. So yes it should. It would be stupid to expect otherwise.
@@TornaitSuperBird Tears of the Kingdom is a well-made game that has taken six years to make. Pokémon poorly made due to rushed development. You cannot compare the two games. The series was dying before Breath of the Wild, so it needed to change to keep up with the time.
Considering the utterly saturated state of the "open world" genre, I do think we'll eventually wrap around to more linear adventures.
What made me love the 3D Zelda games was just how unique each dungeon was, especially when it came to using the unique dungeon item. I will also say that the past games could have thrown in some curve balls in how to use previous dungeon items to solve puzzles in the next. BOTW was okay, same with TOTK, though I think that the durability system is much worse in that game. I guess that I wish we could have a crafting system where we assemble past items, while the game is more open. For example, finding pieces to upgrade the weapons. Bosses are okay.
you know, there's a couple things I heard a while ago that this brings to mind. The first is a line from Max0r's Doom Eternal "review" where he says, "it's refreshing to have a game that sets out to do one thing the best, and have developers who actually give a shit about linear design and gameplay."
The other one, that's actually what I first thought of, was a thing I heard someone say once that went something along the lines of, "when the developers know the path you're going to take through the game, that means that path can be much more designed than if you're presented an open world.
Thank you for talking about this. This is something I've been worried about myself. I haven't played Tears of the Kingdom yet, but I did recently complete Breath of the Wild. During that hellish grind, it got me thinking about the traditional Zelda games and how much I loved those games. At one point, I'd consider Breath of the Wild one of my favorite Zelda games, but now, I'm not sure. It's not a bad game. Far from it. It's just that I miss the old Zelda, especially since Nintendo is dead set on milking Breath of the Wild dry. They gave us DLC for Breath of the Wild, a Warriors style, quasi-prequel spinoff with Age of Calamity, DLC for that game too that nobody talked about, and now Tears of the Kingdom which will undoubtedly get DLC as well.
Botw is as barebones as it gets.
Ruins with no meaning copy and pasted everywhere. Enemies with no rhyme or reason for their placement. The worst durability mechanics in gaming. All rewards for exploration are either meaningless or a korok seed or a shrine.
Copy and pasted mainstory with same meet elder, meet descendant, get into divine beasts, reboot computer, fight paint ganon.
No option to listen to classic zelda music for 99% of the game.
Final dungeon can be completely skipped.
Puzzles are mostly basic physics that never evolve due to the game never progressing your arsenal and everything being required to be doable from the start.
@@firenze6478 I have never been so offended by something I 100% understand and agree with.
@@tonysonic456 lol. Best response ever
In a recent interview the Zelda team said they had so much fun making this open world. There find it difficult to go back to the old formula but it's not out of the question in my dream Scenario there both live side by side
Then maybe they can bring back the old items at the very least I miss the claw shot and the Gale boomerang would be pretty useful to pick up items
But they also need to make some weapons non-destructive or like I said with the boomerang
As much as I love Botw and Totk, I like once I finish these games I don’t feel like coming back to them for a couple of years while the old style games I tend to come back every few months, is it nostalgia? Perhaps. Its something that I’ve wondered since Botw came out because once I finished the game, the dlc, and master mode, I just felt that something was missing. Totk kinda filled that void, but I can’t help but to feel that there is still something off or that I just miss having a story be just as important, who knows.
I do believe that both versions of Zelda can work as one game, its just we haven’t gotten to that sweet spot yet, and I can’t wait to see where the Zelda games go from here, but I can’t help but to wonder if there is still a future for a linear Zelda.
I'm not yet convinced they will commit to a 'new standard' for the series, I think their philosophy will be to keep zelda moving forward in new and interesting directions which will incorporate elements from across the series.
The issue here is that traditional Zelda fans have become, in the span of only a single game, a small minority of the player base. 13% to be exact. Here's the math:
Before Breath of the Wild, 3D Zelda games sold on average around 5 million copies. From that, considering "Skyward Sword" sold 3.6 million, we could roughly determine the amount of Zelda fans who would like to see the old formula return would be 4 million (being the remaining million people who either grew tired of the series formula or never quite liked it in the first place and stuck to the series for other reasons).
BotW sold a whopping 31 million copies, and I wouldn't be surprised if it still managed to sell one or two million more. And TotK is obviously gonna reach those numbers, if not surpass them. The only question about it is if it will achieve that on its own or with a Deluxe edition of sorts for the Switch successor.
Well... 4 million is roughly the 13% of 31+ million. The entire traditional Zelda fan community could leave the series for good and Nintendo would barely feel it.
Couple that with the fact that the Zelda development team is obviously very excited about the new direction of the series and...Yeah, traditional Zelda is pretty much dead and buried.
Nintendo just doesn't have any incentives to create Zelda games that would potentially alienate what's now 87% of their audience.
I feel like the LOZ fanbase is turning into the DC fanbase. A very loud vocal minority vs a silent majority. U got a group of fans that say they like the old iteration, but when they get it, not enough of them show up to buy it.
I agree with you 100% on this one. I do believe a balance could be struck between the two styles it just hasn't been met yet.
They’ve proven the can expand the world so there’s no reason they can’t just lob classic elements again.
@@DarkEclipse23 Agreed.
I just wish that the Zelda team continue both styles of gameplay and create new games with the old and modern Zelda formats. They have made remakes of the old Zelda formula (like links awakening) and by extent TOTK is an expansion of BOTW. But I just want to see them create new and more original games using these two formulas of modern and old, combining the two styles of gameplay would be optimal but I wouldn’t mind if they published a new game that focuses on only one of the two styles.
I've been waiting for another two days out of for about 15 years
Im fine with the new formula but I would love to see older items come back especially the hookshot and since you can make a flying machine in this game the hookshot wouldn't really be that gaming breaking.Thats all I really want.
I totally agree with you, especially since i'm in love with BoTW and Tears and how they handled those games but i've also gone back recently to replay Link Between Worlds on my 3ds and it just made me want a new zelda game in that classic style.
I do have a preference for older Zelda titles, although seeing what others have created in the newest game cracks me up.
My friend and I were playing Twilight Princess the other day and we both agreed there needs to be a bit more close-ness with the locations. Sure, open worlds can be fun but a lot of the time it gets stale.
i think that they almost got there, but they went just shy of what they needed for temple exploration. the temples themselves were moreso getting from a-b then unlocking a gate in a tedious manner. lets say the fire temple had you rapidly changing tracks using the goron or the water temple had platforming puzzles that required you to time your water and use it carefully it might have felt like older zelda a bit more, but when movement is so free, it's incredibly hard to make something as restrictive as a dungeon fun. you can fly around, scale mountains, and kill a god. if they restricted it too much to require you to use your ally, it would have felt tedious beyond how tedious getting 5 keys in every dungeon already felt. i'd say that they could have possibly shoved the 4 powers from the starting area off to the dungeons to make it slightly more linear as you wanted, like shoving ultrahand in the water temple, then putting ascend in the wind temple. personally i would have loved more powers than what they gave as ascent felt very weak as one of the powers and za warudo was quite powerful by comparison allowing for fast traveling, situation assessment, and threat neutralizing.
Yeah. Most franchise have tried a “Lets do it differently then normal!” Approach and honestly the only two games I like who done that recently is three houses and cyber sleuth
Even then, Cyber Sleuth's gameplay loop is based on the DS era of Digimon games.
I’ll be honest, I’m not the biggest fan of the barren wastelands to explore in the form of Breath and Tears’ style. It’s a mile-wide, but only an inch-deep.
Not helping is keeping almost all the exact same locations as Breath, defeating the point of exploring for anything new, and no, caves don’t count since they’re so tiny add very little.
I’m glad to see dungeons return, but I’d be happier if they were actually a return to form, rather than just being the Divine Beasts, but bigger. Not repeating the same exact cutscene about the Sage’s awakening would also help.
Weapon durability is and always will be a mistake in my eyes. If you’re gonna have rigid and shallow combat, you can’t also make a bunch of arbitrary weapons that don’t mean anything since they’re all used exactly the same way. Having the Master Sword run out of power was especially bad since it undermines the point of getting it.
Lastly, we have the fact that the Dragon’s Tears storyline completely spoils stupidly important information so easily, to the point it creates massive redundancies in the plot, or worse, massive plot holes, like how you already find out where Zelda is and realize these visions of her around the place aren’t really real. That should be something you figure out through progressing the plot, not something you can do at any time and in any order.
I don’t hate the game; but I don’t believe it’s at-all worth $70. It feels too much like glorified DLC for Breath, and not at all like it’s own game.
Honestly I don't think the old style will be gone forever, The Era of the Wild is sort of special in the way that being in the wilds allows a lot more freedom because of the world it has, maybe there will be more smaller scale games in the series, but honestly its really hard to see where Zelda will go from here, I think seeing what they do will be the best way forward, and going back to appreciate the older games while also enjoy EoTW games is the best way, I'm excited to see where Zelda goes next and I'll be here for it.
My biggest fear is that Zelda will devolve into an Ubisoft Assassin's Creed 😢 it already basically already is, towers, pointless grind like collecting Korok Seeds, even the Shrines (Zelda Krazoa spirits) are boring.
I miss the days when exploring in Zelda actually gave you rewards, I miss the feeling of how that new item you got in a temple opened up new opportunities for exploration. I miss the excitement of opening a new chest not knowing what new key item I would get. I miss memorable side quests with memorable characters. I miss the lore, and thematic dungeons. I miss actually feeling something for the game, this game feels like a shell used to store cool gameplay mechanics. Quantity over quality...the old Zelda is dead and we killed it.
BotW and TotK are fun and I'm glad so many people enjoy them, and I'm glad they are keeping the franchise alive, but they don't have the Zelda tone and feel I love. It's so conflicting.
Honestly I would have preferred if they had released TotK as DLC instead of a new game because my expectations would've been lower.
I wish there was some middle ground...
Edit:
Thanks for the video glad to see more people with similar feelings.
I wish the story didn't take a hit in both games. Like some parts are really interesting while others feel a after thought. The gameplay is super fun but the story feels like it's interesting sometimes but mashing buttons so I can go back to perfecting my death roomba. I missed out on really important Zelda information in my first botw playthrough because I didn't find her and the King's diaries. Sometimes story context slips through the cracks.
I had an idea where each dungeon cen be visited in any order and they all have a dungeon item, but near the end of each dungeon there's a door that you just can't go through, even with the item in the dungeon, the way to get through that door is by returning to that dungeon after the first half of the game where you've gone through every dungeon and use the dungeon item from a completely different dungeon and whatever mid-game upgrade you could get from completing all the dungeons to finally open that door, revealing an entire second dungeon that combines elements from the main dungeon and the dungeon that the other item came from.
So for instance in some sort of ice dungeon you'd get a fire rod halfway through it, and near the end the door would need, for example, the hookshot you get from the wind dungeon to open the door. This new combined dungeon could be a gauntlet of freezing gales and blinding blizzards
I feel like TOTK gives you too much freedom in exploration to the point that it just becomes a chore. You can usually go from one tower to the next just skydiving. The depths are absolutely tedious as well once you build a hover bike and spend a few hours just lighting it up. The entire mine cart gimmick of the fire temple can be skipped by building stuff. Every shrine that requires you to hit a target with something can also be bypassed using bomb arrows. There's no challenge in figuring out how to get from point A to point B when you can just whip out autobuild to solve the puzzle for you. Midna's ass is also not in TOTK, which is a big letdown.
I really think that if they committed to it, with a focus on preventing feature creep, they could give us a good-feeling Zelda game in the new style.
For example, the Wind Temple in TotK absolutely starts when you first use Tulin to cross the fallen ruins. Everything from there out is part of the temple, design-wise. But it gives you a LOT of freedom in that section, and it feels like it’s an organic part of the rest of the game. Honestly, the “actual” temple where they give you a checklist feels _less_ like a temple because of how it restricts your freedom.
I really think if they hadn’t had the whole physics-sandbox aspect to TotK eating up development resources, there’s a chance the game design could’ve been really special. (And I’m not ragging on the building, it’s the most fun part of the game, but it isn’t _Zelda_ ). Here’s hoping the next one gets that right amount of ingredients.
I can't lose my self in such am empty boring lifeless world. Instead of costumes out of a them go back to transformations lot more fun and it would open up new ways to fight like mm did
But if they do make a food one let us go back to the old pink hairstyles like Ocarina time links-style Twilight princess style ect maybe even let it be pink
I think. Zora’s domain did it best across both games. In botw the zora coming to find you actually sold the threat the divine beasts supposedly were instead of just another minor annoyance. Then when you get there not only do they already know who you are weaving you into the greater narrative but in both games you get the zora armor the only piece of required armor (vai set, extreme cold, and flame guard) that feels more like a tool than a gimmick. The ability to ride the various waterfalls allows for so much exploration that it literally makes you reevaluate your route to hyrule castle.
My first thought on finding a synergy between old and new and how link becomes stronger through finding tools in his journey makes me remember Purah from botw. Before she was a thirst trap for the community, she was how we upgraded the Sheikah slate. What if it was something to that effect?
Like say another game comes out with the Wild formula. You get your bread and butter powers, get used to them in the tutorial, and the early overworld, and finally get to your first dungeon. And there you find ways you can't access as you are. Until you find a podium that adds to one of those abilities you started with, turning how you used that ability on its head a little. To use Kamen's example, you start with the ability to ascend, but after going through the dungeon you can start descending as well.
And the boss makes you creatively use that power to get the weakness. Like the arena is made up of various platforms that you have to asend and descend through to dodge attacks and hit weak points.
Just my first thoughts on the matter, but in my mind, it kinda synergizes old and new game mechanics.
I’m 36 and I definitely miss how it use to be. The new games are amazing but damn do I miss that ole pazazzzz it use to have 😅
So far
I miss Hook shot ( 64 Zelda through TP)
I miss remote bombs ( BotW )
I still HATE!! breaking weapons ( BotW through TotK )
Did you forget about Skyward Sword having Hookshots? They aren't really gone at all. In fact, they are still present in the remake of Link's Awakening. Remote bombs aren't really needed in TotK, like, regular Bomb fruit work just fine. And, are you still having skill issues with the weapons system? The fuse system makes the breaking not annoying, an in fact nice to expect, to test out new fusion combos
You can repair the weapons you like using Octorocks but just a tip.
There's things I like about classic Zelda and things I like about BotW and TotK.
I liked the item based progression, but hated how situational items were ontop of only being useful in their own respective dungeons. In that matter I much prefer having all the abilities from the start.
Though, I do prefer classic dungeons, I prefer the way TotK handles puzzle solving, but I absolutely despise shrines they're not an alternative for dungeons they just suck. Instead of having self contained puzzle boxes, bring back classic labyrinthian dungeons and use concepts from the shrines to build a full fledged temple instead of whatever we got
Speaking of things I hate the memories can also go, it's evident Nintendo has been using them as a crutch to try and replace narrative advancing cutscenes. I'd much rather the game have a bunch of flag checks for where in the narrative you are that triggers certain cutscenes then to have to collect memories of an interesting story I won't get to play a part in or have to watch what essentially amounts to the same cutscene 4 times with 3 redskins because Nintendo couldn't be bothered to write a rising action.
All in all, both have their ups and down. Classic Zelda overworld sucked and were just basically hub world's inbetween dungeons while BotW and TotK took the opposite approach and have you spend more time in the world then dungeons. If the next Zelda could actually address the story and dungeons it'd be 10/10
People really overstate how well executed the items were in the 3d games. When not done well, you get an arbitrary key that is used to lock a series of doors and nothing else. When it comes to even the coolest items like the spinner, that happens to alot of weapons in series.
The thing about this is that at least imo, the 2d games struck this very balance. They had fun dungeons that didn't detract from the world, weapons that were consistently useful more often than not, and an interesting world with enough content to keep you engaged without taking you from the main objective. Really, the only thing they lacked was the grandiose visuals the 3d games have to offer.
@@lukebytes5366 That's what makes the sentiment traditional zelda elements wouldn't mesh well with the open air approach even more baffling. you only need the hookshot to beat almost every temple in oot and half the time you can just do your own thing in almost any order. Most of teh games before BOTW with items in dungeons hardly utilized said items outside of dungeons which also makes the devs sentiment of the formula becoming stale or being far too restrictive also very baffling as well.
I realise I'm in an extreme minority here but I can't stand all the survival mechanics added in BOTW, the weather related stuff being my personal least favourite, they more or less completely ruin the game for me to the point where I genuinely lost all interest in buying Tears of the Kingdom. So yeah while I don't have any ill will towards the many people who do like the new style (except the ones who DDOSed that one reviewer's site back in the day for the crime of merely liking BOTW instead of worshipping it) I do miss the older Zelda games.
What I just miss is feeling like it matters to complete a dungeon. Yah in BOTW you just. Stop them from being rampaging. But they’re just. Isolated most of the time.
It isn’t like MM where you purified the swamp, or stopped a raging blizzard and brought spring to the mountains. Or saved your buddies in kokiri forest. Filled up the lake in lake hylia. Idk. I mean probably the spirit temple had the least impact but still.
I miss how great it felt making a difference to others by completing dungeons. Or the sense you were finally reaching a goal like in Links Awakening. There was always a story element that mattered.
Otherwise it just feels like it doesn’t matter in BOTW. Beating the dungeon doesn’t really do anything only than letting you beat the game.
I take it you haven’t played Tears of the Kingdom. This issue is directly addressed
@@anthonystuart5724 It’s the same shit different game and you didn’t understand a lick of what I was saying. For a game to have that would require to have an actual story, not just pissing around for 30 hours and doing a semi larger sidequest that is a stand in for the main story. You can literally type in any zelda game that has a fleshed out story because the areas matter. Even Majora’s Mask, a game that is literally 80% side quests has a main story that surpasses the newer games. You know why? Because doing shit there actually mattered. Otherwise it’s just the same bullshit of BOTW where “ganon’s stds are all over the place… it sucks … that’s the story”.
@@anthonystuart5724 Why are you lying to this person? TOTK temples are just dungeon rejects aka worse divine beasts.
I’m not lying? This person’s complaint was that completing the dungeons in BOTW didn’t have an impact to the characters in the overworld. Completing each of the four dungeons in TOTK has a tangible impact on the map and NPCs.
To give one example (minor spoilers), when you first reach Zora’s domain, it’s completely covered in sludge that makes traversal difficult.All the NPCs are complaining about it and trying to find ways to stop its progression. Completing the dungeon destroys the source of the sludge and the NPCs and region changes accordingly.
The new dungeons still don’t have the classic structure, but saying that beating them impacts the overworld is objectively true.
Kamen has a point. Linearity allows for more structure and tools to be used in dungeons that are massive labyrinths that test your navigation skills, puzzle solving and combat prowess. Totk only provides a tiny bit of that: The Fire Temple. That's the only one that really tests your abilities and skills as a player. The older dungeons in past games were more linear and had only 1 solution, but because they were designed around certain elements, themes, items, and concepts, it meant that those puzzles could be larger, grander, and more complex than whatever TOTK and BOTW did with "find 4-5 switches and hit them to fight the boss in a giant box".
Another thing is there's no progression in difficulty. Each of the dungeons feels like a differently themed dungeon with the same puzzles. Of course they're different fundamentally and they use different assets, but they don't really get any harder because you already have the tools necessary to beat them all from the beginning. It makes for a good first dungeon, then... several other first dungeons with a few changes that don't force you to improve your problem solving skills.
Also Yes. Mineru best goat wi-- *gets sacked*
Nice Mineru art! It must be really hard to draw with one hand so congrats!
I know the Zonai are supposed to be goats but whenever I look at them, they don’t ever feel like a goat at all. Maybe a chimera in a sense of more then one creature in one? I think I’ve heard it’s a mix of goat, lion and supposed to be a dragon but now snake but the dragon would make sense for the Zonai I guess.
I wouldn't mind seeing a blend of BotW/TotK and the classic style. Personally, I've never really been the biggest Zelda fan. I've played the original, LttP, and dabbled in OoT and MM, but the games never really stuck to me. It wasn't until Breath of the Wild that I finally clicked with the series. Yeah I know I'm one of those people, but the style just sat with me more than the classic style
But like I said, I'd like to see a blend of the two styles of Zelda games because it could definitely work, and I'd love to see what kind of puzzles they could make following those design philosophies
I have a daughter and, when she's old enough, I'll introduce her to Ocarina of Time and then possibly Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and eventually the new games, depending of what she's into and would rather play.
Personally, the things that would draw people to the new style, I get from Minecraft. If i want full exploration and full creativity i go to a sandbox game. Thats not what i want from Zelda. And it seems Nintendo no longer has any interest in delivery Zelda games that have what i want.
I swear to fucking christ every big budget AAA game these days are all the same fucking couple of games with a different skin. They’re all botw clones, assassin’s creed checklists, crafting n survival/free roam-Minecraft or just cod gun fests and I’m fucking SICK of it!
Videogames becoming super mainstream and run by MASSIVE shareholder corporations was the worse thing to happen to the medium. Creativity goes there to fucking die and join a corporate conglomerate these days.
Yeeeah I recently turned on my N64 and played a bit of OoT (it was a even a 1.0 cartridge!) and the title screen theme with Link riding Epona in Hyrule Field just... teleported me back in time.
Made me realize that despite loving both BotW and TotK, it lost a few things that made the old style really cool...
Like finding heart pieces through side quests or exploration, shrines are fun and all but you always get the same thing you know?
Imagine if shrines gave you different stuff, like some give heart pieces, others give stamina, or armors, etc etc.
There are times I see the quest mark on a NPC, but I see myself avoiding those because I know that most of the time I'll get rupees or materials, or meals....
There are some "major side quests", those are cool and usually unlock some cool stuff, like the Goddess Sword from SS or even a full Heart/Stamina Container, but are so few and far between :(
I suppose it's a bit different than commenting about gameplay 'n such, but I've always felt it was rather off-putting that the newer games seemed to have forgotten some key elements, like the Tri-Force itself. I also have always liked the use of instruments in the games, or some sort of musical element, but as these games came out, it sort of seems like they've forgotten about that.
I may not be the biggest Zelda fan out there, but to me, some of the core elements of the series were of Music and Magic, in the recent installments; it seems they forgotten about its own roots in some way.
Once again you manage to voice what are my own thoughts that I been keeping to myself.
I just wish they would be rid of the worst durability mechanics ever conceived. All it adds is unnecessary grinding and it forces you to only one playstyle while constantly interrupting the flow of combat. Its just a constant nuisance and people need to stop defending it or pretending that the game wouldn’t work if I wasn’t forced to constantly treat my weapons like disposable trash instead of allowing me to play how I want. Makes no sense for how much they praise this formula for freedom to simultaneously praise such a restrictive mechanic
I like both styles & a mix of them would be amazing.
Although interviews have said that BotW will be the formula going forward I don't think it's set in stone. And with open world being the current fad (in no small part thanks to BotW) it will make future open world Zelda games feel a bit redundant. You can only really play one open world game at a time, and once you get through it you'll probably be burnt out on huge worlds for a while, which means that adding to the number of them in the market might not be the best map to follow while they're currently everywhere. Especially since with so many open world games, people can find the one that uniquely appeals to them the absolute most.
I think that when open world stops being chic, Zelda will PROBABLY move its main series away from it, although it's also possible that they'd stick with being "the" open world game. But with the staff seeming to keep a finger on the pulse of what the fans like they probably will also implement more of the old aspects that people miss.
Personally I have elected to pass on TotK. I really enjoyed BotW but felt that its issues of the overly simplistic combat and a lot of abilities that were really redundant and ultimately just there for people to mess around with looked to either be not changed in TotK (the combat) or actively made less appealing to me with a significantly expanded focus on things that I didn't engage with like item combination (I didn't even bother with the cooking for most of BotW) and vehicle building (I thought the flying machine with magnesis was neat but felt that it was more trouble than it was worth).
The difference in items brought up here is vertical vs. horizontal game design elements. It's the difference between for instance Twilight Princess where your Master Sword "upgrades" come in the form of special combat techniques that increase your options in combat versus how BotW's upgrades to things like the Master Sword or the bombs come in the form of increasing damage or the recharge speed. Both forms of progression have pros and cons and it's almost impossible to make a game without implementing vertical progression unless it's a very simple game like a platformer but I'm personally way more into horizontal progression. I don't think it's so much an issue of railroad vs. sandbox although needing to design the entire game around the assumption that the player might engage with something with starting gear can prove to be a problem. It kinda forces all the upgrades to be vertical in nature because they don't want to roadblock you with "you need the hookshot here". What that results in is a rather simplistic game system.
I will give props to Nintendo for making TotK actively expand on the things that the biggest fans of BotW liked about BotW but I wasn't one of the biggest fans of the game. With the gameplay systems not appearing to have improved the things I didn't like and only really expanding on aspects I didn't engage with, it comes across as not something I'd want to drop $70 on.
1:44 And yet the regular bosses (at least the two I've fought so far) are just easy gimmick fights like you're playing the first few fights of a Jojo's part from Part 4 onward (Mucktorok was more annoying than hard). Once again the world bosses save for a few possesses more of a challenge (Taluses have become trivialized by the addition of being able to Ascend into them and Flux Constructs are gimmick fights that require Link's new abilities to defeat, with the first kind requiring ultrahand, the second requiring ultrahand and recall and the third ultrahand and ascend)
Dude. Zelda games were meant for everyone. Not people with no lives and time to kill like you. Simplicity is often heavily underrated. When you grow up from your apparent age of 5 you’ll understand that.
My only Zelda experience with it is Botw, and don’t have the experience but know about the lore and gameplay from friends.
When I was playing Breath of the Wild, it was gathering supplies and fetch quests.
The few times I was growing is anything fire based Or visiting Goron City but that more necessity. But the shrine puzzle and divine beast did made me feel smarter solving them with some the divine beast had me confused on the mechanics.
I might not know Zelda but know Pokemon.
Sword and shield was linear but had the classic story elements and world building from the classic games.
SV made me feel lost running around with the only thing guiding me was gyms and when I fought Geeta it was lack luster because I had forgotten who. I remember Larry and Rika more…
Everything was separate until they converged in the end.
The only game I felt did it write mixing open and linear was Legends. It made me explore and fall in love with the characters.
Every new area had new items, learning how to dodge, and had classic pokemon feel.
And when it was time came to fight Volo, it made me want to protect Huisi.
Tear of the Kingdom was a game that was given to me as a friend, I haven’t played it but excited.
Wait Moblin repellent real… Can I use it?
The zonai devices in Tears of the kingdom sorta fills that old role of finding new items compared to Breath of the Wild that really didn't get anything new, but after playing the game a bit longer it does feel a bit like the game is missing part of what made classic Zelda great.
Like, the random treasure chest still giving mostly junk. There were also quite a bit of junk items in older Zelda games but sometimes they threw in some collectibles to mix things up. The sage items kind of fit that in Tears of the Kingdom but they are few and only seem to be in random sky islands. Most of the dungeon treasure chest and underground things I've found so far are still just bundles of arrows.
I've bumped into a couple arena areas in the depths that give unique armor pieces which is a bit of a treat, but it still dosen't feel as great as finding that new exploration item you'd find in older Zelda games.
I'm glad other people are missing those old items so maybe there's hope future Zelda will add them.
Honestly, I am more a fan of Top Down Zelda and Breath of the Wild Genuinely bored me. It doesn't help the large open words aren't exactly dense. Little to no incentive for combat, enemies spread out far apart, places of interest spread even farther apart, and even after exploring to your heart's content, by the time you want to get a move on to the main event, it becomes an exercise of patience.
It's like being in a playground with a MASSIVE sandbox that makes up 85% of the playground with the slide and swing set being at opposite ends, and having no toys or water to play in this sandbox due to some weird ban. The novelty will eventually wear off and become really boring. Without the proper toys and enough things to play on, the whole thing becomes a rather shallow.
It takes at minimum 50 hours apparently to complete just the story.
Thats the issue with most open worlds in general and why i wish a lot of devs didn't look at open worlds as a way to just make larger areas only and cared a lot more about content and environmental design on top. On the bright side a new awesome open world is coming out soon called granblue fantasy relink where its being marketed around its environments and online coop on top of gameplay.
If 2D Zelda is dead I might actually sob 😭
Links awakening remake is the most recent 2d zelda
There are like oodles of extra content exclusive to switch not featured in the other 2
But yea 2d zelda kinda dying which sucks bc link between worlds being my 2nd fave zelda
Bro, Links Awakening remake was released 4 years ago. Link Between Worlds was released 10 years ago. For the Zelda series, which is often known for slow releases that is a substantial amount of content. Where is this conception that 2D Zelda is dead? These two games are some of the finest entries in the series, and just because Zelda doesn't release as much as Mario or Pokemon, doesn't mean that 2D Zelda is going away.
I do wonder where the series goes from here, but I seriously doubt that 2D is dead.
@@egbertmilton4003 remakes dont exactly count but ok
@@enzoforgets9456 They do when they make immense art style changes and add more content
I feel the same way. The biggest thing I came to the Zelda franchise for was the dungeons. No other game series really does them the same way, and the last few Zelda games didn’t either. The Zelda formula I fell in love with died with A Link Between Worlds, where they axed finding items in dungeons and instead had you rent them.
I kind of came into Tears of the Kingdom for the story. As much as I like the gameplay, I've seen it before in BOTW and so I look to story in order to keep my interest to not make me feel like I just bought the same game twice. Sure, we have the Depths and the Sky, but they're not as in depth as the main map. And when it came to the story, honestly, I was slightly disappointed. With BOTW it was all about Link and his journey to reclaim himself. Tears, though, he wasn't really doing it to regain his past it was to dick around and watch someone else's story unfold. I told my BF that this was the first game that for once Zelda had the more interesting story going on than Link. And I had this sentiment that I'd rather be playing Zelda exploring this ancient technological Hyrule than following Link as he travels around collecting her vacation photos and feeling the FOMO. I haven't beaten the game yet, as I've mostly just been dicking around getting as much as I can from the experience. But I feel like Tears limits itself being a little too similar to BOTW, following its formula. That's what I felt the most while playing was that despite there only being two Open World Zelda games it didn't branch out the methods to get the story elements so beyond any other Zelda game, it felt formulaic.
Skyward Sword has been my favourite Zelda game. Beyond all the others I owned, that was the one that I kept coming back to. I keep being told it's linear and boring as gameplay, but honestly, I don't need exploration to enjoy something. Experiencing a new version of the world is good enough for me. Seeing how this land transforms itself as the millennia passes. Plus, the fact that there were new creatures unique to Skyward Sword due to how ancient the story was felt fresh and exciting. I was charmed by the world, the characters, and the story SS built up that I didn't mind the linearity. If anything, it kept me grounded in what I was supposed to do. The older, linear games are still good, and for good reason. I can only hope that the original Zelda in some way does continue on and that BOTW isn't the new standard for every single title moving forward, at least not to the extent it was for TOTK.
The BotW and TotK approach brought the games back to what the game was attempting to be, IMO, not so much trying to be a level by level progression but a game about exploring. Unfortunately it's really hard to have that and lateral power ups at the same time, because the power ups will end up constraining things towards linearity. It's... Really tough to let go of either Zelda. I don't want new Zelda gone, but also don't want old Zelda gone, but Nintendo is finding that players are hugely enjoying these open games with reception of four of their major franchises only having one not shift to open world, which is amusingly ironic since it was one of closer ones to the open world ideal to start with: Metroid has you wandering around and expanding your world to wander around further, after all.
It's... Odd. I'm curious about how they move forward from here.
Nope if people play the old Zelda games then the series playing legend of Zelda thanks for teaching me to solve puzzles and opening up to people
0:58 That's my Personal Favourite!
Before watching the video- No old Zelda games are not Obsolete
After watching the video - See above
I miss the days when everything you find and every story beat wasnt completely optional and thus completely pointless
No.
BOTW and TOTK are so dense that I'll probably never play them again. Majora's Mask is still my favorite.
I agree. *be been playing ToTK since launch day, exploring whenever I don't have work, but I've found myself playing this like it were OoT or SS. I'm still thinking of the game being linear, even though it's open world, meaning I keep forgetting about the depths. It's a negative of growing up with OoT and TP, and something I'm struggling to break.
Not to mention the amount of hearts feeling like they matter little when an enemy can 1 shot kill you, even if you have the top row of hearts nearly filled, something that in classic Zelda made me feel stronger, but in BoTW and ToTK, I feel as weak as when I started
If we could blend the new with the old it would probably be the best game again. I can't remember what site it was, but they had only given a perfect 10 to 8 games in their entire reviewing place, and Legend of Zelda had managed to score 4 of those slots.
Two things about BOTW and TOTK is that they expand on and were inspired by the ideas of the original Legend of Zelda; It's why you see a lot imagery of the Original in the advertisements of BOTW. The post Link to the Past formula would work as well in that context. The original was very open and you could do dungeons in almost any order the main caveats were the dungeons that had over world, and the occasional items that were necessary to reach a dungeon boss or defeat a later one like gohma. The closest is the Dungeon 5 where you need the dungeon Item to defeat the boss Diggdogger. ALTP only follow the classic formula itself occasionally in Eastern Palace, Palace of Darkness, Swamp Palace and Skull Woods. Desert Palace and Misery Mire use their dungeon item once for a roadblock, The rest unlock progress outside of their dungeon or a just nice to have.
It worked for the time but they need to up their game in this day and age. I'm sorry but the over world is boring and empty
I love the old zelda types even the 2d zeldas what made a zelda title a zelda title compared to something like Mario was that it was more story oriented. Both have you saving a kingdom but zelda had more reason to save the kingdom and when breath of the wild came out I was disappointed. I still am. It feels so much of a cop out of what a zelda title intales. Sure you can choose to grow stronger but each place you get excited seeing is either a shrine a korok, a guardian or a camp of enemies it just annoys me, it makes the world feel more barren in the variety of challenges that the dungeons provided. Each Devine beast and shrine looks the same. We can chalk it down saying the shieka are the creators so they should look the same but it gets stale before the 20th shrine. It's the same with most open world games. It doesn't even feel like a change of gaming history. I enjoy tears of the kingdom more but not much. It's got dungeons but those still feel like Devine beasts and not dungeons. Nothing like the best dungeons, skyward sword. There's something about how zelda stories just do better than a lot of different games from different companies do. I don't mind doing dungeons out of order even in the later half of ocarina you could do this to some extent even in link to the past. As long as you still get to see the story. Zeldas memories made me feel like this isn't me as a character. Zelda cut scenes are usually something that takes place right before or after an event that makes you feel like they want you to take a breath while still being that character. I feel the need to say everywhere for the next zelda I want my classic zelda, twenty hearts, midevil adventure green tunic 8 dungeon crawling experience. They can be out of order I don't care just let me have that story.
One thing that I never understood about these games is why are the Runes given to you at the beginning? What if you got them During/After clearing a dungeon? I though we were getting something life this with all the Sage's Abilities, but all of these abilities can be replicated somewhat in the game with tools/Materials.
I don't hate that the runes are available after clearing the Tutorial Island, but if this was Old Zelda, you would get these overworld traversing abilities by clearing Dungeons. Minish cap is my favorite 2D zelda and in that game, you constantly get Map-Traversing gear each dungeon (Gust jar which allows you to push lilypads as boats, Bombs to bomb rocks/Caves, Cane of Pacci which allows you to flip Enemies and turn pits into Jumping holes, Mole Mitts to dig the soil and Cliffsides). I understand most people get frustrated when the solution to the puzzle is that "You need to play the game/Story more", but it basically turned Zelda into a Metroidvania of sorts due to these barriers that require items.
The runes are given to you at the beginning because the designers wanted to make sure that you have all the basic tools you'll need to explore - And some of them can be well used for traversing and they don't want you to miss these tools.
I find this really poor design, fit for the poor writing. I think Hidemaro Fujibayashi is actually working double-duty as writer-director and kinda leaving these games unwritten, since his good games before Skyward Sword had a separate director. Classic Peter Principle. In particular his credit as Planner for Oracles, four Swords, Minish Cap.
I don't enjoy the Link Between Worlds approach, but for the majority that does it seems obvious this should have been the formula used here. But not much talent seems to overlap between these productions. Not that I enjoy the requirement to use always the dungeon acquired in the same dungeon, I find it jsut as antithetical to openNESS of the world, as frankly open world does. I feel the world feels MORE vast when there's executions like the Sand and Water Temples in OoT, not that you can "openly" roam between them, but WHEN you do it doesn't feel hard-locked to a progression.
The worst open-world to me feels like there's a million different options in going to the WRONG direction, and everything jsut halts anyway until you grit your teeth and do the route a linear game would force you to play. This makes all the sidequests busywork that basically just exist to level you up and make the difficulty progression 100% trivial. But solution to these problems already exists, just don't pander to players' IDEA of an obvious open world, that they jsut get bored of and use fast travel. Plan your game like a system of caves, not a field where you can fly anywhere. Not even physically, you can also lock it to to time, or plot events. I dream of an RPG where the only way to progress is unlock special attack comibinations during grinding, so the overworld traversal is REPLCAED with stopping running in circles during battles. Grinding is only bad because YOU do the equivalent of doing the same thing like running circles in the overworld.
for me it is fun exploring open world games but there has been something that occasionally happening. its hard to explain but its kind of like information overload. you are going to your objective, and then suddenly go "oooo! a piece of candy!" and then it repeats till you start saying "oh. another piece of candy." till you start to wonder "when will it end?!" sure back when i was a bit younger i had enough energy to complete a lot of skyrim. but it is starting to really exhaust me a bit with some stuff almost connects endlessly.
i love tears of the kingdom i do. i am just pointing out a thing that games just seem to just do that can seem a bit exhausting and it is making the game have so much play time, whether it is by adding a lot of stuff to do. or padding out the play time by putting in time gates. LOOKING AT YOU WARFRAME!!! that game almost infamous with time gates at times. and grind. to an extent.
Cool the vid is here and the Link pic is colored.
I feel like instead of cutting out traditional zelda games entirely, they can give it to another studio like capcom (who has made a minish cap one of my favorite games and a very unique entry to the series) to make a traditional style zelda game with a top down style like alttp or lbw and they coulr fill in the gaps in the timeline between the old games and botw
My dad got me into Zelda, fav game of all time so when I play these games it brings a lot of memories but only with the traditional way.
I can’t get into the new style, not it’s just not for me but hey my dad loved breath of the wild but hates TOTK.
At least he got into one of them, I can’t
I think there is one big reason for Nintendo to still make classic Zelda games (at least when rereleases
emkaes dry up) is because of the MUCH shorter development Cycles. Now I dont think we will see a traditional from the core Zelda team anymore, they will be making the big boy, but I think we will see other devs or even 3rd parties like when capcom did Seasons games producing more traditional titles. I do think Links Awakening Remake does serve as a recent reminder, and sure we see new classic zelda after TP\WW HD are ported along with 3ds OoT\MM. That said, 3d classic zelda I have more doubts of seeing than 2d gameplay classic zelda. I think 2d classic zeldas will still get made because they are so much faster as quick between releases. 3d classic Zelda is sort of pushing costs+time,
Always hold out love for shortstacks.
Personally I hope not
I think Skyward Sword is actually the best path forward for it focusing primary on the story as that's something that the BotW open air format will never be able to do better as you can't control the story's pace in an open world without limiting the player
Nintendo did say they want a Zelda game every year and so far the only one they missed was 2022 where they originally had TotK
Having 3 if not 4 game types (if they keep doing Warriors titles)2D, Story focused 3D, and Open Air 3D it would help the series not get stale with their desired pace considering how long TotK took
Also you're the first person I've seen simp for someone who isn't Purrah
I definitely agree with you, in that while I like the style of BOTW and TOTK, I"d also like some more linear progression focused ones that can have some really great dungeons like in TP and SS (say what you will about Skyward Sword and its linearity, but it had some of the best dungeons in the series). Unfortunately, recently Eiji Aonuma pretty much confirmed that they will only be doing the open world style going forward, and practically insulted any fans who want something different...
The funny part is, when more and more games try to emulate or build upon the open world formula, people will get tired of over-saturation with open world games.
If the Zelda team really wants to make a new genre that lasts for years to come, they need to give the best of both sides.
Mix open world with linearity, let the overworld be fully open (some puzzles and stuff locked away behind progression items, but not entire areas), and let the dungeons be linear (but be done in any order besides the final dungeon)
Ok, controversial opinion, but i feel a lot of Nintendos newer games lost their magic in some way. Animal Crossing New Horizons was lackluster for all the new stuff it adds. Fire Emblem Engage put too much emphasis on gameplay instead of story and characters. Pokemon...well. If you know, you know.
Like, am i alone on this? It just feels like every Nintendo game recently has been missing something to make it excel. Either because they changed it too much or did not put in the effort to make it feel like a triple A game.
Even though TOTK is still fun. Just having you play that Groose scene at the beginning of the video makes me want to play Skyward Sword again because Link was so expressive and emotional compared to this iteration. It just feels like he always has a stick up his ass. Is that too mean? Oh well...
It took the original formula almost 30 years to feel apparently stale. It took 2 games in this new formula and I’m already sick of it.
"Its a formula that a lot of games use"
Do they really though? There isn't that many games that really does what classic Zelda does.
I feel like totk tried to improve by giving us some of the old feel back the bosses are definitely an upgrade to botw and their temples feel more like the ones of old but the breakable weapons and lack of items still feel like they are going away from the series roots and that saddens me a bit I genuinely love totk and I’ll put it in top 10 but not top 5
Personally i think TOTK is overrated. I probably would have liked the game more if more than the lightning temple felt like a traditional classic zelda dungeon. And if they got rid of the durability mechanic.
I agree with the sentiment of losing a part of what Zelda was with BotW and TotK. I do love the open-world of these games, and I dont want to lose that, I want to keep it. But I want to return to older style Zelda games, even with their linear design. Honestly, the system from *Link between Worlds,* where you could rent items, then eventually own them and upgrade them, was a unique idea, and if implemented in a BotW style open world, where you have actual dungeons with heart and soul, but you dont need to tackle them in dungeon A, B, C, D, ect. order like past games would be perfect.
Hell, I already had an idea of how to implement it: Have the starter versions available outside of the main dungeons, then have upgraded versions inside the dungeons. That way, you dont have to get the hookshot from dungeon B in order to get to dungeon C, yet you still have progression in you items, through finding superior versions that allow you greater avenues of exploration.
BotW has alot to offer to the franchise, but I hope Nintendo doesnt take the wrong lessons from BotW and TotK successes and use them going forward for every Zelda title.
Idk, I thought there was enough exploration and dungeon crawling in BotW to keep engaged and wanting to play how I want. With regards to the Blights, their designs are still fairly unique. The temples difficulty could increase and your equipment gained from temples and enemies would improve, the further you traveled. Hell, some temples require solving puzzles outside the temple. The flashbacks gained from dealing with the Divine Beasts and key landmarks give you an idea of what life was like in the past and those who survived offer insight into the progression of time.
The BOTW/TOTK formula has every right existing and I love it. But i really do miss the old Zelda formula. When the Switch was announced I was hyped, because I thought the handheld and home console teams would be developing on the same console. This would've been the perfect opportunity to continue the traditional 3D zelda formula while the main team works on TOTK. It really would be nice if they could coexist
Something that bothers me about BotW at least (haven't played TotK yet, Switch is broken.)
Is that, if you took away ALL the Zelda imagery, names, and characters.... It doesn't feel like a Zelda game.
Heck, Star Fox Adventures has more of a Zelda formula than BotW does.
I dunno, I just kinda miss traditional Zelda games. But, we know we won't get those anymore. They said the next game will continue this formula. So... more LoZ: Nuts and Bolts I guess. =/
I hope the next game has more classical elements
I would like to think that we're getting close to a marriage of the two styles. Traditional Zelda-style storytelling, and free-roaming exploration.
If they happen to do another game in this format I would love for them to play around more with temples/dungeons maybe more than the 4 we got in the past 2 games. Maybe make a full-on forest temple in Korok Forest instead of just having an arena fight with the new baddie that instills fear in new players.
Maybe have a temple that was once a Shiekha holy ground that you have to liberate from the Yiga clan in a gauntlet of stealth and combat as the Shadow Temple.
I miss having a myriad of dungeons and temples to raid and fight kooky bosses.
Let's not forget that we've also gotten remakes/remasters of older Zelda games this gen too. I think it could be possible that the new formula can co-exist with releases of games that follow previous formulas.
I think there could be a perfect mix of both linear and open world, where it has the feel of older zeldas but in a much more open world. To me I think that would what I would want.
i feel like they should use a link between worlds formula a bit more. it did the open world on the 3DS as much as you could do it anyways) and still had dungeons themed around the item, tjough in this case you could get the item whenever you wanted and do the dungeons in whatever order you wanted to do them