I’ve tried to tell people that Brady wasn’t a system QB, he was the system itself. 677 TDs to 99 different receivers, a comeback for the ages against Atlanta, taking a 7-9 Tampa Bay to the Super Bowl after leaving NE. He made stars out of players who wouldn’t have made it without him. The one constant throughout the years was always him. The further New England falls, the more his legend grows
Brady didn't make ANYONE a star. Bill based on the teachings of Parcells created a plug and play system and it worked. Brady 9-0 in his first 9 playoff games-- 11td - 3 picks and averaged 216 yards a game (failed to throw a TD in 3 of those games and didn't even play one but got the win because he started). Yeah-- he was lighting it up. That defense back then was no joke and the fact that not once but TWICE the pats defense held the highest scoring team in the league to it's lowest point total of the year (both against the rams) really speaks to how awesome Brady was.
@shaunp8534 Belichick is a looser HC without Tom Brady 72-79. Brady is 31-18 in the regular season and 4-2 in the postseason with a SB and SB MVP. Brady's a gloried winner with or without Belichick. Belichick on the other hand is a glorified looser without Brady plain and simple.
@shaunp8534 Bro, there is no speaking logic or facts to Brady fanatics. They're too blinded by their bias to be objective. The man one a Super Bowl throwing 262 yards, 0 td's and an int. Yet you'll still have his fans including that win as all him
@nightowlovo4422 He also won a SB throwing for 450 + yards 2 Tds and an Int and lost a SB while throwing for over 500 yards and 4TDs. So what's your point? He lead the game winning drive in that SB against the Rams all while John Madden was saying I'd take and knee and go to OT.
Idt it’s possible to overrate him. And as football continues without him, we’re gonna realize what he did can never be done again. Not any player in any sport can boast that.
Yes. One thousand times yes. The patriots were underdogs in the playoffs about half the time and Brady’s playoff record was 35-13. His teams beat the best competition AND the point spread. As great as he was he was actually underrated.
He wasn’t under rated to the smart people. He is the greatest football player of all time. There’s not 1 single player that was as big of a difference maker on any time than he was.
@@straightfacts6482@FKS1994 rewatch that skip and Shannon seg and say again with a straight face Skip was right about what he did lmao. Skip made it very personal and lacked great respect, only suckas agree that was ok. Nothing right about that, Shannon simply said he should've given more credit to his effect. Pay attention
Outside of Moss for a few seasons and Cooks in 17, its crazy to think that in Brady’s entire tenure in NE he never had an elite reciever. Best pure receivers were 5-11 Deion Branch and 5-10 Julian Edleman. Pats woulda been even better if Belichick coulda found just one guy in all those years.
Tom Brady was the one THAT made the Patriots defense great! Brady keeping the offense on the field is one of the reasons because that allowed the defense to get rest, but also Brady not turning the ball over in his own territory thus giving the opponent great field position, Brady literally never did that, Mac Jones on the other hand just gifts the other team free points by throwing pick sixes or turning it over in his own territory, this is also why Brady made the Buccs a great defense too, because they were always tired from being on the field when Jameis Winston was their qb because how many times he turned it over! Brady is the goat for a REASON!!!!!
Fact check: Belichick's record without Brady as the starter is 80-92: 1991: 6-10 1992: 7-9 1993: 7-9 1994: 11-5 1995: 5-11 2000: 5-11 2001: 0-2 (Brady's 1st start was Week 3) 2008: 10-5 (Brady started only in Week 1 before his injury cost him the rest of the season) 2016: 3-1 (Brady’s faux suspension) 2020: 7-9 2021: 10-7 2022: 8-9 2023: 1-4
Everyone knows the clip of Brady and Bill discussing on how to beat Ed Reed and it was Brady who was coming up with all the various concepts on how to counter Reed
I’m happy even football people is acknowledging what I’ve seen since 2005. Tom made that offense side of the ball something bill didn’t have to worry about. Bill was great bc he played the percentages on defense and took away most teams first and second option. But he won super bowls bc of Tom Brady not the other way around.
They allowed 3 points to the Rams the 2nd time they faced them in the superbowl. They also had game winning kicks in multiple super bowls and a Malcolm Butler INT to seal another one that was about to be lost. Brady also fumbled the ball on a Brandon Graham sack in the 2nd Eagles super bowl matchup while driving to take the lead right at the end. YES, Brady was instrumental to the Patriots success. And YES, so were a metric load of other individuals to varying degrees.
@@173jaSon371 They allowed 3 points to the Rams the 2nd time they faced them in the superbowl ....... AND WHO HAD THE GAME DECIDING DRIVE IN THE BIGGEST MOMENT ? They also had game winning kicks in multiple super bowls ......... AND WHO MADE THESE KICKS POSSIBLE WITH ALL THESE DRIVES TO KEEP YOU IN THE GAME ? Malcolm Butler INT to seal another one that was about to be lost ......... AND WHO BROUGHT THEM BACK IN THE 4th QU BEING DOWN 10 WITH 2 AMAZING DRIVES ? Brady also fumbled the ball on a Brandon Graham ........ AND WHO HAD SUPER BOWL RECORDS THAT STILL STAND TODAY FOR HIS PERFORMANCE IN THIS GAME AND GAVE THEM EVEN A CHANCE TIME AFTER TIME ? - BUT .... maybe Belllickicks unknow Twin-Brother coached the defense that day 😞 And as extra on top only for you ......... even in the first 3 Superbowls it was TB12 that had game sealing/winning drives. Ohh, BTW, the answer to all my "WHO" is ............ THOMAS EDWARD PATRICK BRADY !
@@Nagash-ol3oe No one thinks Brady wasn't a massive reason for the Patriots success, but there were literally hundreds of scouts, coaches, and players that also had massive impacts at times. Brady didn't do anything alone. No one does in team sports. This isn't Tennis or Boxing.
Aren't franchise QBs usually the force of any dynasty though? New England and Belichick's problem are that they don't have a QB or impact players especially WRs. You're not gonna win with Mac and with average WRs.
Tom Brady was the one THAT made the Patriots defense great! Brady keeping the offense on the field is one of the reasons because that allowed the defense to get rest, but also Brady not turning the ball over in his own territory thus giving the opponent great field position, Brady literally never did that, Mac Jones on the other hand just gifts the other team free points by throwing pick sixes or turning it over in his own territory, this is also why Brady made the Buccs a great defense too, because they were always tired from being on the field when Jameis Winston was their qb because how many times he turned it over! Brady is the goat for a REASON!!!!!
Perfectly said I have been saying the same thing protecting the ball as a quarterback is just as important in winning championship and getting you there
Resting doesn't make your defense have studs on it. Sustaining long drives helps but give credit where it it due. The Patriots with BB and Brady had defenses that were top 10 in points allowed all but 3 seasons. They were top 5 in points allowed in 8 of those seasons. They were 1st or 2nd in points allowed 5 of those years, and 2nd again once after Brady left.
Wow Brady finally getting Credit from Shannon after hes not on undisputed and saying bill was 70 percent of the success or that Bill was gonna get Mac Jones right after Brady left.
Without a doubt - Brady has been the underdog that no one could believe his greatness - even after winning #7 - the critics - still said the Bucs were stacked - Bellichick wanted to throw Brady away in 2015 when they drafted Garropolo - Tom ended taking them to the Super Bowl 4 more times and WON 3 - Bellichick still wouldn’t give Brady a long term contract - Bellichick is a cheap suit - Brady made him shine -
Well, Brady did pick the Bucs for a reason. He wasn't going to join some rebuilding team in free agency, he picked a team that was a QB away from winning it all. Michael Jordan is the rare aged, elite athlete who purposefully joined a bad team, but he did so because he literally owned a stake in that team prior to un-retiring.
@@thefranchise_1573that better be a joke. Brady had NO ONE on offense his last year. Julien was hurt all year and he LEAD the league in drops that season. That patriot offense was significantly worse than it is now minus Tom Brady.
Crazy how Bill has two records with and without Tom Brady. Bringing back Patricia and Judge was the worst decision ever. Patricia made Stafford not a HOF qb and Judge he's doesn't deserve to be a coach in the first place.
I wouldn’t say bringing back Patricia and Judge were the worst decisions he ever made. Making them his offensive coordinator/o-line coach and QB coach are the worst decisions he ever made on the coaching side. Forcing TB12 out the door/not giving him the contract extension he wanted and deserved to end his career in New England were the worst he made as GM. They likely wouldn’t have won another Super Bowl, but the world wouldn’t know what he looked like without Tom Brady for another 2-3 years and he wouldn’t likely be losing Shula’s record to Andy Reid. Cause at this rate, Andy Reid will definitely lap him for that.
People seem to forget that Brady was able to grow & was only asked to come thru on 3rd down & clutch time during their first 3 super bowls on a defensive lead team.
@@theblinkerx They don't forget, they ignore it to try and confirm their biases. Anyone who thinks a football team with sustained success for decades was due to a single man is a moron. So, most sports fans lol.
Bill B made the worst mistake a man can make: he let his ego take over. This is like MJ with the Hornets: terrible drafting, terrible people management, yes men everywhere in key roles. Just because you are a good coach/player doesn't mean you are a good people manager.
@@Sparkyxicy : With the Knicks, absolutely. He kept trying to push the triangle without understanding (1) he didn't have the personnel to execute that (2) it had been rendered obsolete by the 3pt revolution and more modern offenses that used aspects of the triangle but added more modern twists to it were what was needed.
There’s a difference the nba doesn’t really want the hornets to succeed. The hornets market is the Bible Belt which is opposed the values the league pushes. They just want Jordan to be a face so the league can brag that they at least have “black” owner. They’ve been using Jordan to market the league since84.
We all know that Brady did not carry Bill. Brady’s offense led his team to the two lowest-scoring winning offenses in Super Bowl history (13pts, both against the Rams). Bill’s signing of Malcom Butler was the deciding factor that won Brady his 4th ring. Brady threw 3 INTs in an AFC Championship with the Pats and his defense was good enough to win the game despite that. It was Bill’s defense that held the Falcons scoreless in the last 18 minutes of Super Bowl 51
@polpol1005 How was Belichicks defense a gainst the Giants in 07 SB? Sure they only gave up 17pts, but after "Brady" got them the lead late in the 4th quarter they let Eli go right down the field and take the lead right back. Same thing happend against the Eagles. Brady broke his own SB record from the SB before, re take the lead in the 4th quarter, just to have Nick Foles go down the field and score. Bill is a straight up "Loser" as a HC without Brady. Where as Brady's 32-18 reg season record and 5-2 in the playoffs with a SB win. Belichick is 82-98 in the regular season and 1-2 in the playoffs. Now who really captained the Patriots to all that winning? Numbers don't lie. It was Brady
@@chrisrezendes4869 you can cherrypick games all day long but the fact remains, Brady’s offense led his team to the two lowest-scoring winning offenses in Super Bowl history. And his first 3 SBs were won by defense. So it was't Brady, it was BB and his system
@@Rcc2269 I can’t believe he wanted to ship Gronk out to the Lions in 2018 He had something personal against Brady’s TB12 brand Probably felt threatened but now he’s paying for it
this is unbelievable how shannon has completely changed his stance on brady after he went to first take, one might say it’s because of belichecks poor coaching as of late, but my theory is that the skip and shannon era highly influenced shannon to be at odds with the pro-brady skip baylees for the sake of entertainment and ratings
Yep these sports personalities are all just actors. I never had a single doubt in my mind that Shannon knew of Brady's greatness. But him and Skip just agreeing on that and moving on would cause less drama and be worse for ratings.
This should also speak to Shannon's objectivity. Everyone remembers Skip disrespecting him for holding Brady responsible for his poor play. Just like he's holding Belichick accountable for his poor coaching job the last few years. Getting away from Skip was something Shannon desperately needed to do
I’ve been saying this for years that it was all Brady. Nothing brings more joy and warmth to my heart to see Belichick be exposed. All his tough man bravado was built on the back of Brady. He is the same coach when he was with the Browns lol
Not a Brady fan but I always use to debate with Pats fans that once Brady left, it was over for them. They would debate me and say anyone can thrive under Belichick's system. I said ok we'll see. So far it's off to a horrible start. You gotta respect Brady like him or not that he was the difference maker.
I’ve been saying this for years and years that Tom Brady made the offense click because Brady was smart and always played with a chip on his shoulder. He was the Michael Jordan of the NFL and Bill Belichick got pretty lucky to even get Brady and that first title. The first title they won, they had key players that were drafted by Parcells & Brady never had HOF players aside from Moss.
Its crazy how Brady's legacy of greatness keeps expanding, almost at an eye opening rate. In retrospect, Patriots had offenses that had little business to succeed as well as they did (2001-2006, 2018-2019) and yet Brady made them work very well and routinely made nobodies look a notch higher than they actually were minus some all-time greats like Gronk and Moss. Without Brady, Belichick would have potentially been out of the league a lot sooner because despite his defensive genius, the man is GM and cannot draft offensive talent to save his life. He's made some good picks, but most have failed or were drafted much too high. Those down years offensively, they made the playoffs because of Brady. Very few QBs could have made it work throwing to reggie caldwell or aaron dobson. It's insane how easy Brady made it look, like QBs are suppose to make average or above average guys respectable. What a legend, and I get this feeling Belichick is finally getting a much needed reality check. It's almost tragic to think Brady could've put up better stats if Bill the GM wasn't drafting total busts.
The best thing that coulda happened was Belichick letting Brady go.In the four years he has coached since Brady left everybody can see without a doubt what an overrated loser Belichick is without Brady
@@marckellough529 I wouldn't say he is totally overrated, he definitely is among the very best coaches, game managers and defensive minds to ever grace the league...but he is overrated when many fans thought he ran the whole show when really having Brady made it easier to make average receivers work and cover bad drafts. He also had some assistant coaches who made a huge difference which showed upon their retirement (OL coach Scar, Ernie Adams). But yeah, bill as a GM has hurt this team severely, mainly on the offensive side of things. there is no question about it.
@@9ner You're correct he is a great coach but he was getting too much credit. Games are won by the players on the field not by a coach standing on the sidelines. That's why all of a sudden in the four years since Brady left he hasn't accomplished nothing
@@9ner I'll give you an example of what might have been if Belichick had actually put some real talent around Brady.Can you imagine Brady playing with two receivers like Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne?? Plus a runningback like Edgerrin James?? That would've been illegal. That's what Peyton Manning played with for years. Name one great runningback that Brady ever played with plus all of his receivers were average at best.Edelman was a good possession receiver and Deion Branch was pretty good and he only played with Randy Moss for 2 years. No other quarterback in history could've accomplished what Brady did with that kind of inferior talent
The one season the patriots had a competent wide receiver. They went undefeated and we’re really close to winning the Super Bowl, talent makes a difference.
Welcome to 20 years ago. This guy had the hubris to let a defensive coordinator be an offensive coordinator. Years without needing to draft offensive players with their top picks, instead always loading up the defense. Picking and playing a LACROSS player to play WR in the NFL. It was always Brady.
I’m with Brady on this, don’t feel any need to try in credit one more than the other, they worked great together, but there’s no doubt Belichick can’t be in the GM role he’s in
With Brady, BB was praised as a genius GM. Other GMs were killed by the media because they couldn't do what BB did. They couldn't find hidden gems in the late round drafts. They couldn't get free agents to take less money. They couldn't manage the cap because they have to overpay players to play for their teams. Now everyone is pretending they never said any of that and said BB was a bad GM for a long time?
From 1991 until 1995, Belichick was the head coach of the Cleveland Browns. During his tenure in Cleveland, he compiled a 36-44 record, leading the team to the playoffs in 1994, his only winning year with the team. Brady made Belichick look much better than he was. Belichick without Brady was a loser.
@@cliptomaniac2562 The Browns went to the playoffs 7 times in the 1980's (twice as a wildcard, 5x as division winners) and made it to the AFCCG 3x in the 80's (nearly winning twice). Belichick was a downgrade for the Browns, they went to the playoffs once as a wildcard and only won one playoff game against a rebuilding Pats organization that was worst in the league only a couple years prior (when they faced the Steelers they got blown out). Yeah he assembled what became a very smart coaching tree there, but none of it worked until long after he (and the browns) were gone. Maybe his coaching tree in NE right now is smart, but together in Foxborough they suck. Belichick without Brady is like the opposite of the midas touch, whereas everywhere Brady played became a championship organization.
@@cliptomaniac2562 Context matter. You have to remember that Browns team was the modern day Ravens. That Browns team had a winning culture. That Brown team was a perennial playoff team. They were not the modern day Browns. They were two different teams. That Browns team went to Baltimore and became the Ravens.
Every player bought into Tom’s mindset and unselfish, team oriented but super competitive personality. His teammates would run through brick walls for him not Bill. “The Brady Way”
Brady took less money and was so good bill didn’t need to pay big money to skill players. Bill could afford 13-14 starters on D so he could scheme against opposing offenses. On O he just had to pay for good linemen.
Bill Belichick's track record when it comes to drafting is pretty terrible the last 10 years. He can't be GM anymore 100%. Mention Nkeal Harry in New England and folks get heat flashes
Yup LOL He picked Nkeal harry over guys like AJ Brown, DK Metcalf and Deebo Samuel. One of the worst draft blunders in recent NFL history if you ask us Patriots fans.
No 2018 when he took Sony Michel and the fat kid from Georgia over DJ Moore or Lamar Jackson They worked out Jackson but Baltimore got him late 1st round He could’ve learned under Brady for a few seasons or play some plays
It's often overlooked that for 20 years the Patriots had to spend zero draft picks or trades looking for a starting QB. Any team is going to be good when you can focus on filling other positions while still having pro-bowl level qb play over 20 years.
They used 11 draft picks on qbs during bradys reign. 4 of those being 3rd round or higher. You are overlooking how bad Bill is at drafting. They didn't have to pick a qb but they did at a higher pace than teams with no qb.
@tim6454 Jimmy Garoppolo was the highest pick at #64 and then the pats got a second draft pick from the 49ers in the trade. 11 mostly late round picks is nothing compared to what most teams did in that same time period. The Pats were drafting qbs in spots where less than half the people drafted around them even make the 53 man roster.
@@tak-el-uc so your original point is still wrong. You said they spent ZERO draft picks or trades on qbs. For comparison the cowboys drafted 5, the ravens 6 and the only team that spent more draft picks on qbs were the jets at 11.
@tim6454 no Tim, my original point is true. I never said they didn't draft any qbs. I said they did not have to try to draft or trade for a starting qb. If you can't see the difference between trading up in to the top 5 to draft a qb and taking a qb with the 200th pick to be an arm in training camp and thinking it would be nice if he makes the roster, I can't help you.
@@tak-el-uc lol it's funny how hard your trying to twist the narrative. They became training camp players because they sucked. The Pat's still drafted a qb on average every other year and on over half were 4th round picks or higher. If anyone else reads this just remember it's very easy to Google this type of information and weed out these braindead opinions.
Football is a team game for sure but man does the quarterback position sure make or break you. Time is really doing wonders for Brady’s legacy and it would be interesting to hear more ex patriots chime in on the debate as well
People talk about Tom always having great defenses all those years but I really feel the reason why those defenses were able to work was because Tom kept the offense in the field a lot, giving time to the defense just to think about stops and be well rested
I have gained alot resepct for brady since he left NE. And i hate brady, but man did he really cover up the flaws of those patriot teams. Bill definitely getting exposed.
I won't lie with the way Unc has completely changed his stance on Tom Brady. It makes me wonder if Skip had him purposefully opposing Brady for the sake of entertaining debates.
He’s never changed his stance really. He’s always said Tom was that guy which is why he said I wish I had gave him MORE credit. Skip wanted to take into account Brady’s career accomplishments rather than debate the year in itself. Go back and watch the debates
@@Widow_Son Changing your stance and giving more credit is the same thing. He no longer had the opinion he once had. He gave credit but he made it clear who he thought was the driving force of those teams. He used to go on TV and argue that "Bill Belichick is 70% and Tom Brady is 30% of the pie for those super bowls." "Nobody mentions how Tom Brady was carried by those Belichick defenses in multiple superbowls." My personal favorite, "Tom Brady will not reach the Superbowl and win a Superbowl before Belichick." Now his stance is "Tom Brady is the BIGGEST ERASER ever for Belichick's mistakes as a coach, as a GM, and on the field." That is quite the stance change.
As a pats fan belichick is the goat coach he always has a good d but he’s his gm work on getting his QBs top WR and now pats fans want mac benched cause he has no weapons all rookies have been given an elite weapon over the years
So what’s your excuse for Bill in Cleveland having 4 losing seasons in 5 yrs and getting fired or Bill being 5-13 as the NE HC before Brady took over as starter?
Stephan A needs to be fact checked. In NE Belichick only has ONE playoff appearance and 0 playoff wins without Brady. Outside of NE Belichick has 2 playoff appearances with 1 win.
Let’s be honest, with Brady gone, Belichicks old ways are showing. He can coach a defense but Brady ran that offense and those long drives helped that defense rest. Not to mention Brady taking a team discount to keep players and making average players great. Wes Welker and Julian Edelman come to mind. Belichick finally got what he wanted with Brady being gone and he’s paying the price. His teams have been garbage.
The year that pisses me off the most was 2002 . Brady led the NFL in TD's passing and was 4th in passing yards but Belichick's defense was less than average and cost The Pats a possible 4-peat. And instead of letting Brady pass on 3rd down he choose to run the ball 80% of the time. If he would have let Brady pass more the Pats would have made the playoffs. Belichick's ultra conservative approach to offense cost The Pats many wins. I think Belichick grew envious of Brady over the years and held him back in many games.
THANK YOU as a long time fan I been saying Bill should've been fired before letting Brady go. This man is hurting Mac's rep with this ridiculous coaching and coaching staff. I've been writing and emailing people since the day Brady put on another's team jersey. Bill got to go don't even let him finish the season
Tom Brady is a very good quarterback. I remember my dad and brother saying he wasn't that good during the championship-less stretch from 2005-2013 on the occasional interception, and I'd always say they didn't realize how good Tom was and how lucky we were 🤦🏽♂️
Bill Belichick & Gregg Poppovich are both sadly staying longer than they should. Once their stars left Pats & Spurs can’t really seem to get back on track & I think it’s 100% on these legend head coaches. They’re about to get the Tom Landry treatment soon
Brady would have 8 rings if Belicheck’s defense could stop a Nick Foles lead Eagles even once. They couldn’t do it. Brady scored every drive and they still lost.
Brady can have one of the NYG Super Bowls and even the Eagles loss. They never in a million billion trillion years deserved that Seahawks or Atlanta super bowl. However congrats to him… he ruined those franchises for TBD
The way the defend Mac jones is wild. What has he done to earn the benefit. When cam played everything was his fault. Now all of a sudden is everyone except mac fault. Bill isn’t out there throwing them interceptions.
They hate on Cam because he was in the bad spot of filling Brady’s shoes the season after Brady was gone. He also had that horrible play in the SB where he did not jump for the ball (this is memeable and people use this to hate on him). AND people still thought Bellichick was a genius coach. I like Cam way more than Mac Jones and wish he was the QB instead
They helped each other. Yeah, Brady won with BA but he could only do 2 years w/ BA. He did 20 with Belichik and they won 6 together. How do we know if Brady would’ve won the same amount on another team in the AFC East
Making hypothetical arguments is pointless but what we know is that Brady won 6 in NE and then immediately left and took a non-playoff team to a SB victory. There is one common denominator. Everything else that has happened only backs the fact that Brady was much more important than Bill
@@cd2ogz1Bucs had 1 pro bowl player in 2020 and were getting blown out and 7-5 at one point nice try at revisionist history just say you hate Brady and move on
Is there a possibility that the defense was great because of Brady also? Didn't he studied film like an engine and then go and tell the defense what they should pay attention to in next week's game?
The fact that our offense looks worse w/o Matt Patricia and Joe Judge is saying a lot. Then there’s the injuries and lack of personnel. And I just feel bad for Mac Jones, he’s the scapegoat in the end. What a time to be a pats fan lol
When people get into the "who deserves more credit for the Patriots success" debate, people put a lot of stock into well, they went 11-5 with Matt Cassell 🤷🏾♂️ people were even saying Bill is gonna turn Mac Jones into the next Tom Brady after that first season 😂 but when Brady won the one in Tampa, you can give him at least 65-70% of the credit in New England
@@howdydo5760 It says a couple of things: 1) Brady's really good, period. 2) Belichick put together a pretty good squad if it can be really competitive after losing their GOAT QB.
People don’t put a lot of context into that 11-5 season. If you look deeper into it, you had a team that went 18-1 the year before with Brady, essentially a rookie QB out there that the league coordinator’s had zero tape on, and a record where they lost to teams that did make the playoffs who had beat them fairly easily. My uncle was so happy his Steelers had thrashed the Pats in 08, and I had said “enjoy it. Brady’s back and winning it next year.” And the other Pats fans up in Boston…I was in the stands that opening Monday night in 09 when they came back against the Bills. Before the end of the first quarter, people were yelling to they should’ve kept Cassel and even left before the fourth quarter. Not everyone, but the seats were far emptier then they had started with that night. Dude was coming back from reconstructed knee surgery, treating him like he hadn’t just been the MVP two years earlier.
@@lavishtalks1708 It was one of those weird years. That team had the 4th best margin of victory (better than Indy and MIA who both made the playoffs) in the AFC, but they missed the playoffs on a tie-breaker with Baltimore. They also had a much better record than 8-8 San Diego who made it to the playoffs (and hosted a playoff game) by virtue of winning a non-competitive AFC West (this rule really needs to be changed, but the NFL's response was just add more WC teams). IMO, if you lose your All-Pro QB in week 1 and still manage to win 11 games, that's a successful season by most measures.
I don't think people are giving credit to the coaching staff during the dynasty: Dante Scarnecchia was THE OL in football. Remember those years when took some time off and then he came back. OL is everything. You combine that with Brady - it was so hard to stop.
I’ve tried to tell people that Brady wasn’t a system QB, he was the system itself. 677 TDs to 99 different receivers, a comeback for the ages against Atlanta, taking a 7-9 Tampa Bay to the Super Bowl after leaving NE. He made stars out of players who wouldn’t have made it without him. The one constant throughout the years was always him. The further New England falls, the more his legend grows
Brady didn't make ANYONE a star. Bill based on the teachings of Parcells created a plug and play system and it worked. Brady 9-0 in his first 9 playoff games-- 11td - 3 picks and averaged 216 yards a game (failed to throw a TD in 3 of those games and didn't even play one but got the win because he started). Yeah-- he was lighting it up. That defense back then was no joke and the fact that not once but TWICE the pats defense held the highest scoring team in the league to it's lowest point total of the year (both against the rams) really speaks to how awesome Brady was.
@shaunp8534 Belichick is a looser HC without Tom Brady 72-79. Brady is 31-18 in the regular season and 4-2 in the postseason with a SB and SB MVP. Brady's a gloried winner with or without Belichick. Belichick on the other hand is a glorified looser without Brady plain and simple.
@shaunp8534 Bro, there is no speaking logic or facts to Brady fanatics. They're too blinded by their bias to be objective. The man one a Super Bowl throwing 262 yards, 0 td's and an int. Yet you'll still have his fans including that win as all him
@@nightowlovo4422 We can find great QBs with that kind of win under their belt, and we still say they LED their team to the Super Bowl.
@nightowlovo4422 He also won a SB throwing for 450 + yards 2 Tds and an Int and lost a SB while throwing for over 500 yards and 4TDs. So what's your point? He lead the game winning drive in that SB against the Rams all while John Madden was saying I'd take and knee and go to OT.
It’s crazy to wrap my mind around the fact that Brady quite possibly was UNDERRATED
Funny to say but… he was!!! Never took market value money, and it’s not hard to find major media undervaluing him throughout his career.
Idt it’s possible to overrate him. And as football continues without him, we’re gonna realize what he did can never be done again. Not any player in any sport can boast that.
Lol, it might be true, hard as it is to believe
Yes. One thousand times yes. The patriots were underdogs in the playoffs about half the time and Brady’s playoff record was 35-13. His teams beat the best competition AND the point spread. As great as he was he was actually underrated.
He wasn’t under rated to the smart people. He is the greatest football player of all time. There’s not 1 single player that was as big of a difference maker on any time than he was.
Skip was right about Belichick the entire time and now Shannon admits it.
That’s the only thing he even been right about
Skip was always right however skip was wrong to infer Shannon was jealous and to demean Shannon's accomplishments. He was outta line
Yes 😂
Because Shannon was emotional over Brady
@@straightfacts6482@FKS1994 rewatch that skip and Shannon seg and say again with a straight face Skip was right about what he did lmao. Skip made it very personal and lacked great respect, only suckas agree that was ok. Nothing right about that, Shannon simply said he should've given more credit to his effect. Pay attention
Outside of Moss for a few seasons and Cooks in 17, its crazy to think that in Brady’s entire tenure in NE he never had an elite reciever. Best pure receivers were 5-11 Deion Branch and 5-10 Julian Edleman. Pats woulda been even better if Belichick coulda found just one guy in all those years.
Not to mention that Gronk and Hernandez are probably the best 2 TEs in his tenure.
his best receiver in 2006 was reche caldwell. Lol in the postseason against the jets in 2006, it was jabar gaffney. Bunch of no name receivers.
Tom Brady was the one THAT made the Patriots defense great! Brady keeping the offense on the field is one of the reasons because that allowed the defense to get rest, but also Brady not turning the ball over in his own territory thus giving the opponent great field position, Brady literally never did that, Mac Jones on the other hand just gifts the other team free points by throwing pick sixes or turning it over in his own territory, this is also why Brady made the Buccs a great defense too, because they were always tired from being on the field when Jameis Winston was their qb because how many times he turned it over! Brady is the goat for a REASON!!!!!
And Welker
Brady was the answer to every problem the oats had, plug and okay any WR and it works. Moss, Welker, Cooks. Brady was the system.
Fact check: Belichick's record without Brady as the starter is 80-92:
1991: 6-10
1992: 7-9
1993: 7-9
1994: 11-5
1995: 5-11
2000: 5-11
2001: 0-2 (Brady's 1st start was Week 3)
2008: 10-5 (Brady started only in Week 1 before his injury cost him the rest of the season)
2016: 3-1 (Brady’s faux suspension)
2020: 7-9
2021: 10-7
2022: 8-9
2023: 1-4
@peaceandlove1113wow that changes everything! Lmao 🤡
@peaceandlove1113the year after he won a Superbowl on a new team in his 40s without a training camp? First ever home Superbowl?
@peaceandlove1113he won the superbowl and made playoffs the other 2 years with tampa
@peaceandlove1113Try again. That one didn't work lmao
@peaceandlove11138-9. Really more like an 8-8. He had a lead in the last game and then sat out in the 2nd half. Falcons beat the backup QB.
Everyone knows the clip of Brady and Bill discussing on how to beat Ed Reed and it was Brady who was coming up with all the various concepts on how to counter Reed
🤣🤣🤣🤣
It's quite ignorant to assume everyone knows about a clip.
Explain how a Bill Belichek led defense won a Superbowl without Brady
@@jhank0cean PArcells team
@@jhank0cean superbowl 53. Brady was nonexistent.
I’m happy even football people is acknowledging what I’ve seen since 2005. Tom made that offense side of the ball something bill didn’t have to worry about. Bill was great bc he played the percentages on defense and took away most teams first and second option. But he won super bowls bc of Tom Brady not the other way around.
They allowed 3 points to the Rams the 2nd time they faced them in the superbowl. They also had game winning kicks in multiple super bowls and a Malcolm Butler INT to seal another one that was about to be lost. Brady also fumbled the ball on a Brandon Graham sack in the 2nd Eagles super bowl matchup while driving to take the lead right at the end. YES, Brady was instrumental to the Patriots success. And YES, so were a metric load of other individuals to varying degrees.
brady also left and won a superbowl with a team that was NEVER a contender against MAHOMES at 43 years old lmao @@173jaSon371
@@173jaSon371 They allowed 3 points to the Rams the 2nd time they faced them in the superbowl ....... AND WHO HAD THE GAME DECIDING DRIVE IN THE BIGGEST MOMENT ?
They also had game winning kicks in multiple super bowls ......... AND WHO MADE THESE KICKS POSSIBLE WITH ALL THESE DRIVES TO KEEP YOU IN THE GAME ?
Malcolm Butler INT to seal another one that was about to be lost ......... AND WHO BROUGHT THEM BACK IN THE 4th QU BEING DOWN 10 WITH 2 AMAZING DRIVES ?
Brady also fumbled the ball on a Brandon Graham ........ AND WHO HAD SUPER BOWL RECORDS THAT STILL STAND TODAY FOR HIS PERFORMANCE IN THIS GAME AND GAVE THEM EVEN A CHANCE TIME AFTER TIME ? - BUT .... maybe Belllickicks unknow Twin-Brother coached the defense that day 😞
And as extra on top only for you ......... even in the first 3 Superbowls it was TB12 that had game sealing/winning drives.
Ohh, BTW, the answer to all my "WHO" is ............ THOMAS EDWARD PATRICK BRADY !
@@Nagash-ol3oe No one thinks Brady wasn't a massive reason for the Patriots success, but there were literally hundreds of scouts, coaches, and players that also had massive impacts at times. Brady didn't do anything alone. No one does in team sports. This isn't Tennis or Boxing.
@@Nagash-ol3oe Also lol @ "game-ceiling." It's sealing* brother. Your home school education is showing.
I love Shannon for admitting that Brady was the force of the patriots dynasty! ✊
Samuel Adams was the force for America's freedom but people give it all to Washington.
@@AnonymousUser-ss2qrLike Troksy and Lenin, the true communist enforcer. But they(😏) keep pushing Stalin, as the face of Communism.
Aren't franchise QBs usually the force of any dynasty though? New England and Belichick's problem are that they don't have a QB or impact players especially WRs. You're not gonna win with Mac and with average WRs.
@@paisan79_13 Yes but people too often gave credit to Belichick over brady for that dynasty.
The refs had a hand in it too.
Tom Brady was the one THAT made the Patriots defense great! Brady keeping the offense on the field is one of the reasons because that allowed the defense to get rest, but also Brady not turning the ball over in his own territory thus giving the opponent great field position, Brady literally never did that, Mac Jones on the other hand just gifts the other team free points by throwing pick sixes or turning it over in his own territory, this is also why Brady made the Buccs a great defense too, because they were always tired from being on the field when Jameis Winston was their qb because how many times he turned it over! Brady is the goat for a REASON!!!!!
Perfectly said I have been saying the same thing protecting the ball as a quarterback is just as important in winning championship and getting you there
Brady has won a superbowl without throwing 1 td lol. 2 of the first 3 superbowl was because of the defense, look at bradys numbers.
Resting doesn't make your defense have studs on it. Sustaining long drives helps but give credit where it it due. The Patriots with BB and Brady had defenses that were top 10 in points allowed all but 3 seasons. They were top 5 in points allowed in 8 of those seasons. They were 1st or 2nd in points allowed 5 of those years, and 2nd again once after Brady left.
@@173jaSon371 Tell that to defensive players that gas out being constantly on the pitch.
Precisely.
Wow Brady finally getting Credit from Shannon after hes not on undisputed and saying bill was 70 percent of the success or that Bill was gonna get Mac Jones right after Brady left.
Without a doubt - Brady has been the underdog that no one could believe his greatness - even after winning #7 - the critics - still said the Bucs were stacked -
Bellichick wanted to throw Brady away in 2015 when they drafted Garropolo - Tom ended taking them to the Super Bowl 4 more times and WON 3 - Bellichick still wouldn’t give Brady a long term contract - Bellichick is a cheap suit - Brady made him shine -
Bucs were stacked. What did brady win his last year in New England. Got bounced out by the Titans. All they needed was a fg to win.
@@thefranchise_1573who was he throwing too in that game against the titans🤡
@@yohanesscunningham7435thank you
Well, Brady did pick the Bucs for a reason. He wasn't going to join some rebuilding team in free agency, he picked a team that was a QB away from winning it all. Michael Jordan is the rare aged, elite athlete who purposefully joined a bad team, but he did so because he literally owned a stake in that team prior to un-retiring.
@@thefranchise_1573that better be a joke. Brady had NO ONE on offense his last year. Julien was hurt all year and he LEAD the league in drops that season. That patriot offense was significantly worse than it is now minus Tom Brady.
Crazy how Bill has two records with and without Tom Brady. Bringing back Patricia and Judge was the worst decision ever. Patricia made Stafford not a HOF qb and Judge he's doesn't deserve to be a coach in the first place.
you can say that about any great coach that had a great QB. Everyone knows that you need a great QB to win anything in the NFL
I wouldn’t say bringing back Patricia and Judge were the worst decisions he ever made. Making them his offensive coordinator/o-line coach and QB coach are the worst decisions he ever made on the coaching side. Forcing TB12 out the door/not giving him the contract extension he wanted and deserved to end his career in New England were the worst he made as GM. They likely wouldn’t have won another Super Bowl, but the world wouldn’t know what he looked like without Tom Brady for another 2-3 years and he wouldn’t likely be losing Shula’s record to Andy Reid. Cause at this rate, Andy Reid will definitely lap him for that.
People seem to forget that Brady was able to grow & was only asked to come thru on 3rd down & clutch time during their first 3 super bowls on a defensive lead team.
@@theblinkerx They don't forget, they ignore it to try and confirm their biases. Anyone who thinks a football team with sustained success for decades was due to a single man is a moron. So, most sports fans lol.
Asante Samuel been was saying this
Did Molly just tell us some Jets guy comes to her house and breaks her back? 🤯 😂
He bangin her back out for sure
🤣🤣🤣🤣
LMFAO
Dr. Schneider's bookings are about to go through the ROOF!!
Just shows how absolutely useless and irrelevant she is to the show
Bill B made the worst mistake a man can make: he let his ego take over. This is like MJ with the Hornets: terrible drafting, terrible people management, yes men everywhere in key roles. Just because you are a good coach/player doesn't mean you are a good people manager.
You can just sense the type of ego he has with all those Edelman stories of him.
should've gave an hypothetical of Phil Jackson acting similarly
@@Sparkyxicy : With the Knicks, absolutely. He kept trying to push the triangle without understanding (1) he didn't have the personnel to execute that (2) it had been rendered obsolete by the 3pt revolution and more modern offenses that used aspects of the triangle but added more modern twists to it were what was needed.
There’s a difference the nba doesn’t really want the hornets to succeed. The hornets market is the Bible Belt which is opposed the values the league pushes. They just want Jordan to be a face so the league can brag that they at least have “black” owner. They’ve been using Jordan to market the league since84.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Y’all don’t know football
Belichick's record without Tom Brady as his starting QB is 80-92, and 1-2 in the playoffs.
3 winning seasons without Brady. Brady also won 75% of his games.
30, yes THIRTY playoff wins with Tom
We all know that Brady did not carry Bill. Brady’s offense led his team to the two lowest-scoring winning offenses in Super Bowl history (13pts, both against the Rams). Bill’s signing of Malcom Butler was the deciding factor that won Brady his 4th ring. Brady threw 3 INTs in an AFC Championship with the Pats and his defense was good enough to win the game despite that. It was Bill’s defense that held the Falcons scoreless in the last 18 minutes of Super Bowl 51
@polpol1005 How was Belichicks defense a gainst the Giants in 07 SB? Sure they only gave up 17pts, but after "Brady" got them the lead late in the 4th quarter they let Eli go right down the field and take the lead right back. Same thing happend against the Eagles. Brady broke his own SB record from the SB before, re take the lead in the 4th quarter, just to have Nick Foles go down the field and score. Bill is a straight up "Loser" as a HC without Brady. Where as Brady's 32-18 reg season record and 5-2 in the playoffs with a SB win. Belichick is 82-98 in the regular season and 1-2 in the playoffs. Now who really captained the Patriots to all that winning? Numbers don't lie. It was Brady
@@chrisrezendes4869 you can cherrypick games all day long but the fact remains, Brady’s offense led his team to the two lowest-scoring winning offenses in Super Bowl history. And his first 3 SBs were won by defense. So it was't Brady, it was BB and his system
As a Patriots fan, we have entered the dark days we are going to want to forget years from now when we are good again.
We are the laughing stock of the NFL now just like how they were in the pre-Bledsoe days lol
Amen
It’s karma for the way Bill crapped on Brady. Bill has to go down as one of the worst GMs in the history of the game.
@@Rcc2269 I can’t believe he wanted to ship Gronk out to the Lions in 2018
He had something personal against Brady’s TB12 brand
Probably felt threatened but now he’s paying for it
I mean y’all had the GOAT. Y’all had the greatest run as fans. Got to see them go to 9 Super Bowls and win 6.
this is unbelievable how shannon has completely changed his stance on brady after he went to first take, one might say it’s because of belichecks poor coaching as of late, but my theory is that the skip and shannon era highly influenced shannon to be at odds with the pro-brady skip baylees for the sake of entertainment and ratings
It's a debate show
He was starting to turn around at the end of the show with skip. And honestly how can you not. It's plain as day.
Right, the show literally anchored around them not agreeing with one another.
Yep these sports personalities are all just actors. I never had a single doubt in my mind that Shannon knew of Brady's greatness. But him and Skip just agreeing on that and moving on would cause less drama and be worse for ratings.
This should also speak to Shannon's objectivity. Everyone remembers Skip disrespecting him for holding Brady responsible for his poor play. Just like he's holding Belichick accountable for his poor coaching job the last few years. Getting away from Skip was something Shannon desperately needed to do
I’m surprised to see sharpe giving Brady credit 😂😂
I’ve been saying this for years that it was all Brady. Nothing brings more joy and warmth to my heart to see Belichick be exposed. All his tough man bravado was built on the back of Brady. He is the same coach when he was with the Browns lol
u are very smart i been saying it since 2006
@peaceandlove1113 higher than your IQ
Yeah-- brady really held the rams to 19 points in two superbowls and made that awesome pic against the hawks. Man-- he's amazing.
Molly outchea getting her back cracked by the Jets guy sound insane 😂😂
Not a Brady fan but I always use to debate with Pats fans that once Brady left, it was over for them. They would debate me and say anyone can thrive under Belichick's system. I said ok we'll see. So far it's off to a horrible start. You gotta respect Brady like him or not that he was the difference maker.
I'm still trying to figure out why that so called system is not working without Brady??
Belichick is gone now, I guess we know the answer
I’ve been saying this for years and years that Tom Brady made the offense click because Brady was smart and always played with a chip on his shoulder. He was the Michael Jordan of the NFL and Bill Belichick got pretty lucky to even get Brady and that first title. The first title they won, they had key players that were drafted by Parcells & Brady never had HOF players aside from Moss.
Don't forget Gronk as well
There defense won them the first championship. Give belecheck some credit lol
The fact that Tom Brady had to save so many games in the last two minutes speaks volumes alone. Not ignoring the other factors
Explain
@@gbrow1604he has almost 60 game winning drives in his career…………….
Tom Brady is the GOAT. He made Bill look great.
Its crazy how Brady's legacy of greatness keeps expanding, almost at an eye opening rate. In retrospect, Patriots had offenses that had little business to succeed as well as they did (2001-2006, 2018-2019) and yet Brady made them work very well and routinely made nobodies look a notch higher than they actually were minus some all-time greats like Gronk and Moss. Without Brady, Belichick would have potentially been out of the league a lot sooner because despite his defensive genius, the man is GM and cannot draft offensive talent to save his life. He's made some good picks, but most have failed or were drafted much too high. Those down years offensively, they made the playoffs because of Brady. Very few QBs could have made it work throwing to reggie caldwell or aaron dobson. It's insane how easy Brady made it look, like QBs are suppose to make average or above average guys respectable. What a legend, and I get this feeling Belichick is finally getting a much needed reality check. It's almost tragic to think Brady could've put up better stats if Bill the GM wasn't drafting total busts.
The best thing that coulda happened was Belichick letting Brady go.In the four years he has coached since Brady left everybody can see without a doubt what an overrated loser Belichick is without Brady
@@marckellough529 I wouldn't say he is totally overrated, he definitely is among the very best coaches, game managers and defensive minds to ever grace the league...but he is overrated when many fans thought he ran the whole show when really having Brady made it easier to make average receivers work and cover bad drafts. He also had some assistant coaches who made a huge difference which showed upon their retirement (OL coach Scar, Ernie Adams). But yeah, bill as a GM has hurt this team severely, mainly on the offensive side of things. there is no question about it.
@@9ner You're correct he is a great coach but he was getting too much credit. Games are won by the players on the field not by a coach standing on the sidelines. That's why all of a sudden in the four years since Brady left he hasn't accomplished nothing
@@marckellough529 it’s brutal. I wonder what went through his head thinking he could go on making the same mistakes without Brady
@@9ner I'll give you an example of what might have been if Belichick had actually put some real talent around Brady.Can you imagine Brady playing with two receivers like Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne?? Plus a runningback like Edgerrin James?? That would've been illegal. That's what Peyton Manning played with for years. Name one great runningback that Brady ever played with plus all of his receivers were average at best.Edelman was a good possession receiver and Deion Branch was pretty good and he only played with Randy Moss for 2 years. No other quarterback in history could've accomplished what Brady did with that kind of inferior talent
I definitely owe Tom an apology …. He’s so good ….
No more discounts to play for a HOF qb. No more discount to have a good teammate. Goodluck Bill, you’re gonna need it
I’m glad Tom is finally get his flowers for what he did in New England. Everyone gave the credit to Bill after every star he ran off.
The one season the patriots had a competent wide receiver. They went undefeated and we’re really close to winning the Super Bowl, talent makes a difference.
Should've known it was Brady when in 2007 he finally got a true #1 receiver and ended up smashing records that season.
took shannon forever to see the light of the truth. Lmao
for 20 years bill showed everyone the door. it's time someone shows him the door.
He benched a player before the SUPERBOWL. I think it was Butler.
We are turning into orthopedic’s show? 😂 Shanon you are the best.
Orlovsky looks genuinely surprised by Belichick’s record without Brady as QB 😳
and his GM track record, I did not realize it was that bad
It's safe to say that it was Brady and not the system.
Welcome to 20 years ago. This guy had the hubris to let a defensive coordinator be an offensive coordinator. Years without needing to draft offensive players with their top picks, instead always loading up the defense. Picking and playing a LACROSS player to play WR in the NFL. It was always Brady.
I’m with Brady on this, don’t feel any need to try in credit one more than the other, they worked great together, but there’s no doubt Belichick can’t be in the GM role he’s in
With Brady, BB was praised as a genius GM. Other GMs were killed by the media because they couldn't do what BB did. They couldn't find hidden gems in the late round drafts. They couldn't get free agents to take less money. They couldn't manage the cap because they have to overpay players to play for their teams. Now everyone is pretending they never said any of that and said BB was a bad GM for a long time?
I love Shannon he said
“If you don’t gotta QB that’s 6,4 and can throw it’s like tryna whistle in the wind.
Wow, that stat Stephen A pointed out regarding Bill Belichick win/lost record w/o Brady is mind blowing
We’ll said Shannon from the UK. I watched most Brady games and he was the difference maker
From 1991 until 1995, Belichick was the head coach of the Cleveland Browns. During his tenure in Cleveland, he compiled a 36-44 record, leading the team to the playoffs in 1994, his only winning year with the team.
Brady made Belichick look much better than he was. Belichick without Brady was a loser.
Thank your true fact!!!! somebody on here thinking with there brains and not on there crazy hateing emotions.
He should be in the HOF for getting the Browns in the playoffs!
and that was Cleveland's only playoff year until baker Mayfield
@@cliptomaniac2562 The Browns went to the playoffs 7 times in the 1980's (twice as a wildcard, 5x as division winners) and made it to the AFCCG 3x in the 80's (nearly winning twice). Belichick was a downgrade for the Browns, they went to the playoffs once as a wildcard and only won one playoff game against a rebuilding Pats organization that was worst in the league only a couple years prior (when they faced the Steelers they got blown out). Yeah he assembled what became a very smart coaching tree there, but none of it worked until long after he (and the browns) were gone. Maybe his coaching tree in NE right now is smart, but together in Foxborough they suck. Belichick without Brady is like the opposite of the midas touch, whereas everywhere Brady played became a championship organization.
@@cliptomaniac2562 Context matter. You have to remember that Browns team was the modern day Ravens. That Browns team had a winning culture. That Brown team was a perennial playoff team. They were not the modern day Browns. They were two different teams. That Browns team went to Baltimore and became the Ravens.
Andy Reid>BB
He's done well with multiple QBs. McNabb, Vick, Alex Smith, Mahomes
Every player bought into Tom’s mindset and unselfish, team oriented but super competitive personality. His teammates would run through brick walls for him not Bill.
“The Brady Way”
Everything Skip has said about Brady and Jordan is spot on
Brady won 4 Super Bowls AFTER Bill drafted Garappolo to replace him. That's how well Bill knew Tom even after having been together all that time.
One of the few times I agreed with Skip over Unc, Brady just very well might be owed 80% of the credit for the dynasty. On and off the field
Brady took less money and was so good bill didn’t need to pay big money to skill players. Bill could afford 13-14 starters on D so he could scheme against opposing offenses. On O he just had to pay for good linemen.
Shannon Sharpe on ESPN: Shannon Sharpe
Shannon Sharpe on FS1: Unc
Bill Belichick's track record when it comes to drafting is pretty terrible the last 10 years. He can't be GM anymore 100%. Mention Nkeal Harry in New England and folks get heat flashes
Yup LOL He picked Nkeal harry over guys like AJ Brown, DK Metcalf and Deebo Samuel. One of the worst draft blunders in recent NFL history if you ask us Patriots fans.
@@ctbennett13 he shoulda been revoked of GM duties once NKeal Harry didnt pan out.
@@ctbennett13Gives me PTSD same with the Sanu trade
No 2018 when he took Sony Michel and the fat kid from Georgia over DJ Moore or Lamar Jackson
They worked out Jackson but Baltimore got him late 1st round
He could’ve learned under Brady for a few seasons or play some plays
People forgot that the Patriots spent the most money in free agency history in 2021 but has nothing to show for it.
Ya Bill allocated that money on 🗑️
It's often overlooked that for 20 years the Patriots had to spend zero draft picks or trades looking for a starting QB. Any team is going to be good when you can focus on filling other positions while still having pro-bowl level qb play over 20 years.
They used 11 draft picks on qbs during bradys reign. 4 of those being 3rd round or higher. You are overlooking how bad Bill is at drafting. They didn't have to pick a qb but they did at a higher pace than teams with no qb.
@tim6454 Jimmy Garoppolo was the highest pick at #64 and then the pats got a second draft pick from the 49ers in the trade. 11 mostly late round picks is nothing compared to what most teams did in that same time period. The Pats were drafting qbs in spots where less than half the people drafted around them even make the 53 man roster.
@@tak-el-uc so your original point is still wrong. You said they spent ZERO draft picks or trades on qbs. For comparison the cowboys drafted 5, the ravens 6 and the only team that spent more draft picks on qbs were the jets at 11.
@tim6454 no Tim, my original point is true. I never said they didn't draft any qbs. I said they did not have to try to draft or trade for a starting qb. If you can't see the difference between trading up in to the top 5 to draft a qb and taking a qb with the 200th pick to be an arm in training camp and thinking it would be nice if he makes the roster, I can't help you.
@@tak-el-uc lol it's funny how hard your trying to twist the narrative. They became training camp players because they sucked. The Pat's still drafted a qb on average every other year and on over half were 4th round picks or higher. If anyone else reads this just remember it's very easy to Google this type of information and weed out these braindead opinions.
A good QB is always more important than a good coach. This is obvious. How is this even debatable?
Football is a team game for sure but man does the quarterback position sure make or break you. Time is really doing wonders for Brady’s legacy and it would be interesting to hear more ex patriots chime in on the debate as well
People talk about Tom always having great defenses all those years but I really feel the reason why those defenses were able to work was because Tom kept the offense in the field a lot, giving time to the defense just to think about stops and be well rested
If Shannon would have admitted this a couple months ago he’d still be on Fox
Shannon should have stayed with skip.
Yea undisputed was the best show
I can tell Stephen A limiting his shine when Skip embraced it
@@TransKidsMafia yea he too nice , he wasn’t nice with max like this
@@TransKidsMafia ya, Stephen As ego is too big for both on screen, skip and Shay had way better chemistry. What a shame.
Dan and that face is killing me 😂😂😂
Brady without Belichick wins a Super Bowl. Belichick without Brady loses...A LOT.
I have gained alot resepct for brady since he left NE. And i hate brady, but man did he really cover up the flaws of those patriot teams. Bill definitely getting exposed.
Not sure about fixing mistakes but for sure leading his teammates, keeping them “together” and build a culture of excellence
I won't lie with the way Unc has completely changed his stance on Tom Brady. It makes me wonder if Skip had him purposefully opposing Brady for the sake of entertaining debates.
He’s never changed his stance really. He’s always said Tom was that guy which is why he said I wish I had gave him MORE credit. Skip wanted to take into account Brady’s career accomplishments rather than debate the year in itself. Go back and watch the debates
@@Widow_Son Changing your stance and giving more credit is the same thing. He no longer had the opinion he once had. He gave credit but he made it clear who he thought was the driving force of those teams. He used to go on TV and argue that "Bill Belichick is 70% and Tom Brady is 30% of the pie for those super bowls." "Nobody mentions how Tom Brady was carried by those Belichick defenses in multiple superbowls." My personal favorite, "Tom Brady will not reach the Superbowl and win a Superbowl before Belichick." Now his stance is "Tom Brady is the BIGGEST ERASER ever for Belichick's mistakes as a coach, as a GM, and on the field." That is quite the stance change.
Good to see you finally came around Shannon. Nothing more likable than a self deprecating man.
As a pats fan belichick is the goat coach he always has a good d but he’s his gm work on getting his QBs top WR and now pats fans want mac benched cause he has no weapons all rookies have been given an elite weapon over the years
Brady took a garbage team his last season in NE to the
Playoffs; where they lost the game at the last minute to a very strong titans team
Definitely not the goat
So what’s your excuse for Bill in Cleveland having 4 losing seasons in 5 yrs and getting fired or Bill being 5-13 as the NE HC before Brady took over as starter?
He's not the goat coach without Brady.
Joe Gibbs still the greatest NFL head coach. Won 3 Super bowls with 3 different bums as his starting qb. Imagine if he had a Brady for 20 years.
Agree 100%
I love seeing stubborn old people struggle
It's a bit sad though
“Did you hear my back crack” you know Molly let a fart loose on air lmaooo
Stephan A needs to be fact checked. In NE Belichick only has ONE playoff appearance and 0 playoff wins without Brady. Outside of NE Belichick has 2 playoff appearances with 1 win.
All those yelling matches with Skip and Shannon about Belichick Brady. Its crystal clear now.
Yeah Shannon was always shitting on Brady. Skip was right all along
Shannon sees the light and now owes Tom Brady and skip bayless an apology
Great points. Belichick is being exposed.
Let’s be honest, with Brady gone, Belichicks old ways are showing. He can coach a defense but Brady ran that offense and those long drives helped that defense rest. Not to mention Brady taking a team discount to keep players and making average players great. Wes Welker and Julian Edelman come to mind.
Belichick finally got what he wanted with Brady being gone and he’s paying the price. His teams have been garbage.
It's crazy to think that Bill Belichick thought it was a good idea to get rid of Brady😮
He was trying to prove his genius, but it didn’t worked out that way.
Or that Kraft chose Bill over Tom
Been saying it for years,look at Bill record before Brady 5-11 now look at his s record after Brady,Brady was the the offense
The year that pisses me off the most was 2002 . Brady led the NFL in TD's passing and was 4th in passing yards but Belichick's defense was less than average and cost The Pats a possible 4-peat. And instead of letting Brady pass on 3rd down he choose to run the ball 80% of the time. If he would have let Brady pass more the Pats would have made the playoffs. Belichick's ultra conservative approach to offense cost The Pats many wins. I think Belichick grew envious of Brady over the years and held him back in many games.
So skip was right 😭😂 basically
A great player makes a coach look smart. Brady had folks thinking Bella was one of the greatest coaches ever.
Been saying it for years !! Tom Brady don’t need bill !! Bill needs Brady !! More !!
THANK YOU as a long time fan I been saying Bill should've been fired before letting Brady go. This man is hurting Mac's rep with this ridiculous coaching and coaching staff. I've been writing and emailing people since the day Brady put on another's team jersey. Bill got to go don't even let him finish the season
Tom Brady is a very good quarterback. I remember my dad and brother saying he wasn't that good during the championship-less stretch from 2005-2013 on the occasional interception, and I'd always say they didn't realize how good Tom was and how lucky we were 🤦🏽♂️
Very good you sound like the other haters. He was the very best. No one better.
@@MarkKochan-s7o the sarcasm is lost on this one
Bill Belichick & Gregg Poppovich are both sadly staying longer than they should. Once their stars left Pats & Spurs can’t really seem to get back on track & I think it’s 100% on these legend head coaches. They’re about to get the Tom Landry treatment soon
Brady would have 8 rings if Belicheck’s defense could stop a Nick Foles lead Eagles even once. They couldn’t do it. Brady scored every drive and they still lost.
Brady can have one of the NYG Super Bowls and even the Eagles loss. They never in a million billion trillion years deserved that Seahawks or Atlanta super bowl. However congrats to him… he ruined those franchises for TBD
I don't know why Stephen Smith acts like his elementary takes are some deep and profound observation.
The way the defend Mac jones is wild. What has he done to earn the benefit. When cam played everything was his fault. Now all of a sudden is everyone except mac fault. Bill isn’t out there throwing them interceptions.
They hate on Cam because he was in the bad spot of filling Brady’s shoes the season after Brady was gone. He also had that horrible play in the SB where he did not jump for the ball (this is memeable and people use this to hate on him). AND people still thought Bellichick was a genius coach. I like Cam way more than Mac Jones and wish he was the QB instead
A punter and a punt returner 😅😂😅
They helped each other. Yeah, Brady won with BA but he could only do 2 years w/ BA. He did 20 with Belichik and they won 6 together. How do we know if Brady would’ve won the same amount on another team in the AFC East
that's not the point.. Brady left to the best team that gave him a chance to win.. no team in the NFC had a team better than the Bucs talent wise!
Making hypothetical arguments is pointless but what we know is that Brady won 6 in NE and then immediately left and took a non-playoff team to a SB victory. There is one common denominator. Everything else that has happened only backs the fact that Brady was much more important than Bill
@@cd2ogz1Except the Saints and Packers were way more talented and huge favorites in the playoffs against them
@@cd2ogz1Bucs had 1 pro bowl player in 2020 and were getting blown out and 7-5 at one point nice try at revisionist history just say you hate Brady and move on
@@davis2k1234 da fuk?... you dumba**! I was actually defending Brady!
I always thought TB was 60% and BB was 40%, I had no idea it was more like 90%/10%
Is there a possibility that the defense was great because of Brady also? Didn't he studied film like an engine and then go and tell the defense what they should pay attention to in next week's game?
Yes! And kept them off the field a lot to rest
Pats D must hate Mac they’re gassed 😩
Remember when Tom Landry had to be put out to pasture, it is now that time for Bill...He is nothing without Brady.
Idk if this game will be featured in Sportsball. Because making that segment would take more time and and effort than New England bothered to show.
0:33 Stephen A. almost got caught with his hand in the cookie jar, lol.
There's easy plays vs. Earn plays. Some super stars are easy plays STARS.
The fact that our offense looks worse w/o Matt Patricia and Joe Judge is saying a lot. Then there’s the injuries and lack of personnel. And I just feel bad for Mac Jones, he’s the scapegoat in the end. What a time to be a pats fan lol
I was a Manning fan through and through. Always thought is was Bill. Boy, Tom Brady showed us all we were wrong. Best of all time hands down.
I think what we really have learned is that Bill Belichick is one of the greatest defensive head coaches of all time
Took Shannon seven years to give Tom Brady praise wish he did this in front of Skip Bayless
When people get into the "who deserves more credit for the Patriots success" debate, people put a lot of stock into well, they went 11-5 with Matt Cassell 🤷🏾♂️ people were even saying Bill is gonna turn Mac Jones into the next Tom Brady after that first season 😂 but when Brady won the one in Tampa, you can give him at least 65-70% of the credit in New England
I don't know why they say that 11-5 thing because you're basically saying Brady by himself adds 5 wins to an 11-5 team. That's unheard of
@@howdydo5760 It says a couple of things:
1) Brady's really good, period.
2) Belichick put together a pretty good squad if it can be really competitive after losing their GOAT QB.
People don’t put a lot of context into that 11-5 season. If you look deeper into it, you had a team that went 18-1 the year before with Brady, essentially a rookie QB out there that the league coordinator’s had zero tape on, and a record where they lost to teams that did make the playoffs who had beat them fairly easily. My uncle was so happy his Steelers had thrashed the Pats in 08, and I had said “enjoy it. Brady’s back and winning it next year.”
And the other Pats fans up in Boston…I was in the stands that opening Monday night in 09 when they came back against the Bills. Before the end of the first quarter, people were yelling to they should’ve kept Cassel and even left before the fourth quarter. Not everyone, but the seats were far emptier then they had started with that night. Dude was coming back from reconstructed knee surgery, treating him like he hadn’t just been the MVP two years earlier.
Crazy part about the 11-5 season is that people always leave out the fact The Patriots missed the playoffs that year without Brady
@@lavishtalks1708 It was one of those weird years. That team had the 4th best margin of victory (better than Indy and MIA who both made the playoffs) in the AFC, but they missed the playoffs on a tie-breaker with Baltimore. They also had a much better record than 8-8 San Diego who made it to the playoffs (and hosted a playoff game) by virtue of winning a non-competitive AFC West (this rule really needs to be changed, but the NFL's response was just add more WC teams).
IMO, if you lose your All-Pro QB in week 1 and still manage to win 11 games, that's a successful season by most measures.
I don't think people are giving credit to the coaching staff during the dynasty: Dante Scarnecchia was THE OL in football. Remember those years when took some time off and then he came back. OL is everything. You combine that with Brady - it was so hard to stop.
Bill was terrible in Cleveland and Cleveland Bill is back now that Brady is gone.
Hey man nobody would've had the mental fortitude to put together a winning record during 95. But yes him getting rid of Bernie was asinine
I was told that Tom Brady took pay cuts to get better Offensive Lineman
Bill’s ego has been a problem for so many years. Get him OUT!!!
"you have people coming to your house to crack ya back" lmfao