@@markplott4820 correct and he's been proven wrong publicly by an actual current world leading bev engineer from tesla and has refused to issue a retraction or apology for lying outright to his audience. Take down or edit his misleading cybertruck video! Shameful behaviour imo, but he is a RUclips master click bater afterall. And they won't do anything despite reporting the video. 😏
Let's not forget Jason was anti-BEV forever. He attempted to show 🔋 energy density as unviable for 🚗, although factual was not truthful, as lithium tech was advancing rapidly. He amplified all the FUD from Tesla haters. Remember the shade on Plaid for 0-60 spec? When all the Amer car makers did the same for perf drag strip tests.
@@kbmblizz1940 well said! Moron blather on blindly about roll out. Yet since before I was born in 1982? Every single manufacturer and testing company used rollout. 😂 Further more every drag strip pass ever made everywhere has rollout in the time which only varies by how deep you stage against the box. When I mentioned this very simple fact to him, and asked if we should disregard drag times? I got the expected crickets back. Heck rimac used rollout with all their latest nevera numbers. I also asked if he was gonna sh*t on them? Again absolute crickets! 👍🏻
@@schulzmj1I thought about that when I heard about them years ago when they went public with the process. I looked them up then. What is they're ticker? Isn't it the mining company and they converted it to this product and they have a contract with each other.
It's such a treat to have Sandy interviewing people from AMY. It has been quite befuddling for me that the stock price has been on a steady decline for years - it seems as if their technology is unmatched, and the licensing of which from the big players would be inevitable. It's too bad Sandy never got to speak with Larry - they had some similarities and I could've seen them getting along
Why didn't RecycLiCo Battery Materials receive Federal money to develop and implement this for establishing Canadian jobs? So much has been provided to foreign companies to provide for related factors in Ontario.
Sandy says, "has anyone ever coordinated this, I definitely don't want the government get involved... to get resources needed", answered, "They rely on economics... "; Sandy "then if that's the case we will never ever build a bridge". Well Sandy, who builds bridges? In almost all cases governments. Who will change economics, government has the ability. Sure governments can mess things up but they can also help get things rolling.
I feel like a big tension is coming. The obvious choice in terms of price, longevity and sustainability going forwards is sodium ion batteries. But theres almost no reason at all to recycle them. Which means anyone into the mining, recycling or metals speculation side of things will demand we continue to use batteries with at least lithium and nickel in them. And maybe further along that wont be a problem... once we have electric flight en masse then we have a legitimate niche use that demands expensive materials and can keep the recycling and mining and metals speculators happy, while the rest of stable storage and most ground transport can switch to sodoum ion. But I worry about this interim period we are in for the next decade or so. I worry that sustainability and price to consumers will be forfiet to an entire industry pushing in a different direction.
Exactly! Make STEM compulsory and ban religion. Just imagine how much more advanced the world would be if there was no such thing as religion 🤔 which is man made and it DEFINITELY shows 🤨
@@TheManLab7Wow I'm not religious but you made me think I don't want to support anything you do. So you set things back with you're bigoted mind. Big Bang theory; presumably you don't believe in that theory because it was developed by the catholic church.
I'm 54 and never thought I'd be doing chemistry as a hobby. I'm refining my late fathers silver jewelry to make something new. I also had a pressure wash company where I made my own cleaning agents. That means I have an account at a chemical manufacturer so the barrel of acid for desolving silver is cheap and easy. This is really interesting and I agree with the STEM classes. I'm a high school drop out that went from a homeless teenager to a self made millionaire. I did that by studying what I'm interested in not what society says I should learn. If you have a shop class and can learn welding in high school take it. If you want to be a doctor or CPA still learn to weld. You won't understand why until later in life. Basically the ability to look at anything metal in the world And know you can fix it if it breaks or make one if you need it.
Really interesting to hear about what’s happening in terms of the recycling of EV batteries as there are literally millions and millions of them hitting the road and I wondered very much what was going to happen to them all. Loving the series that you guys are doing on all the aspects of the electric vehicle, very much appreciated thank you.
Fantastic interview and kudos to Recyclico and Kemetco for developing this critical and very important technology..their years of R&D will be rewarded in a big way....I could see this technology being the industry standard for battery recycling...there are likely big name companies out there licking their chops to somehow aquire their tech as it solves the closed loop recycling issue with very little Co2 released
@@FrunkensteinVonZipperneckRefining tailings is dirty business. My point is We have enough metals in the waste stream to be able to stop or at least slow down the extraction of virgin ore.
idea 💡🔋 id like to see battery's be like the gold standard for cryptos make battery the new gold/oil & all u got to do is offer crypto for spent battery's & it will create a loop the crypto peopl will hunt down battery's for u♻💱💲
I’ve been saying for years that there’s a real opportunity to make battery recycling a local effort. Rather than sourcing virgin materials for every EV imagine 25-30 battery recycling/manufacturing plants scattered across North America so we can reduce and hopefully eliminate dependence on extracting raw resources from hostile countries.
Recycling is the new mine, extracting less than 1% while the above is much higher...we need mining companies to take xx% of profits and insert into recycling projects.
Great discussion Guys. Scary to hear that they .have no place to just dump the material. It is like How to dispose of Long half life Radioactive materials. It would be very interesting to see a similar discussion with Redwood Materials.
I wish they put more emphasis on the different chemistries. How can recycling an LFP battery be as lucrative as recycling an LNMC battery? Can you even make a business case for recycling LFP or now Na batteries?
Hi, as he mentions in the video (27:15) there are different ratios for each mineral even in the same chemistry classification, so unless you want to see a chart on the current prices of each mineral you will never be able to compare different chemistries. And none of that has to do with profit. Profit is the difference between what a product costs to manufacture and what you sell it for. So, if you sell your iron at 3 cents per pound, but get it for free, then you have made 3 cents. And if you sell your Nickel for 4 cents per pound, but it costs you 5 cents, then you have lost 1 cent.
@@jonathanjohnson8376LFP is different beast form NMC/NCA, but until recently only in China and 3/Y RWD had LFP batteries so only small portion of cars have these.
@@asaha7547 Hi, I am not sure why you are replying to me specifically. Are you saying that Kemetco's process can not be used for LFP batteries? Or are you trying to add more information to my reply?
@@jonathanjohnson8376because they (intentionally?) avoided mentioning LFP, while process most likely can be used with LFP my guess it is unprofitable unless Lithium prices skyrockets again as there are no Nickel/Cobalt there. So probably only Lithium and Copper can be recovered.
It was comment on the graph that stood out for me. There are not yet enough spent EV battery packs to recycle to get the economies of scale to really ramp up that part of the recycling industry.
Not enough spent batter packs BUT the 30% rejection in Manufacturing of new batteries is huge and would provide a lot of feed material and a lot of base elements for new battery manufacture
This is a great interview. I love the collaboration! Are you guys going to be able to tour/interview Redwood Materials? I would love to see the contrast in operations. Thanks!
Just starting listening. I have a small box of mixed chemistry batteries. I can't find a place in my area to recycle them. I know there is valuable elements in them. And I don't want to throw them out or pay to have them recycled. I have all kinds, alkaline, lithium, nicad, nimh, lead acid is the only one that pays in my area
Is there any market-research and overview of competitors recycling processes available - to see and understand the advantages / differences of @RecycLiCo and other market-players ?
Hey Munro, you mentioned the problem of old tires, there is a German company called “Pyrum Innovations” who have a working pyrolysis plant and are building multiple new ones right now, to solve this problem.
What is the cost of recycling to the environment? How much power is required? Where do the chemicals go after? Economics are in favor of recycling vs mining however we need to look at the complete picture. Would love to hear that discussion.
That's the ultimate goal. A sustainable circular economy. Maybe not 100% but high 90s. In fact the lead/acid battery industry already claims to achieve 99% recyclability ...
I am not a radical environmentalist but reducing the amount of certain types of mining mining would not hurt my feelings. This process will reduce the reliance on virgin material in a big way.
So 12tonnes of CO2 to recycle an EV battery. What cost to recycle a battery, and what % of materials can be reused? It all adds up doesn’t it. From start to finish of life of an EV , CO2 savings compared to an ICE vehicle would be negligible. They are selling EVs like hot cakes but there is no mandatory recycling that I am aware of? When is there going to be government levy’s attached to the purchase price of an EV to subsidise the eventual recycling of the battery at the end of its 10 year life?
Government intervention ......... Bad Idea to pay for another bureaucracy. All the costs on the recycling process and remanufacture will be paid by the consumer. All the electricity used all the machinery used , all the transportation required all the wages and benefits. more?
14:30 Stick to talking about recycling, you know little about where lithium comes from. less than 1%?😂 Most lithium is from brine coming from wells IVR, they pump out to fields. Hard rock is a newer area, as brine deposits go down. 1% is un economic to mine.
30% waste on new EV battery manufacturer is huge. Cost reductions with the solving of the rejection rate in itself will be massive. When rejection can get to sub 5% will give about a 25% savings in materials. Add this to advancing Battery technology the future cost of EV batteries will be substantially lower. The future if EVs is assured 😊
I agree with the last part, people are often fairly surprised when I say I bought an EV to return to reliability. My last 3 ICE half tons have had reliability troubles and we are only going back to 2013 for this.
16:52 I would argue various government efforts to combat "climate change" via mandates, penalties, and incentives is what has changed the auto industry.
I was a bit puzzled by the repeat harking on about the aluminium but no mention of the copper foil [in NMCs] worth much more than the ali. Otherwise in interesting deep dive.
Thank you so much for the interview! I drove a Jeep Wrangler quite a bit yesterday. Cool looking vehicle, not very enjoyable to drive around town compared to my Model Y. Acceleration, noise,body roll and gas station dependency. The only advantage to the Jeep was turning radius :-)
depreciation of EVs has to improve. And, can we be assured that electricity costs will stay low in the future? wind and solar are very expensive and intermittent so govt mandates will make future clean electricity costly.
"Reduce , Reuse , Recycle" In that order! That order because its much better for the environment to reuse or replace damaged cells to get a longer life out of a battery than to grind it all down and reprocess the metal. Why not focus on repair-ability and replace ability in the design of the battery? This will not only bring down costs for the consumer but be much better for the environment
A poison reef, you mean. See the study of the effects of various pollutants, including plastics and automotive tires, on the environment? Not good is an understatement.
The electrolyte was evaporated in a drying stage after shredding. That is all part of the shredding/pulverizing process that reduces active whole batteries down to stable powdered feedstock. What this company does is takes that powdered feedstock, or the coated foils direct from manufacturer waste, and extracts the metals used in making both the substrate foils and the active battery materials. As he stated, they are not in the shredding business and that is a more unstable business. Many companies are doing something similar to what these guys are doing, what is unique is that they have a streamlined process that greatly reduces the number of steps required to get to the metals. Most of the other processes also dont generate a pure metal, but a compound that is a result of the solvent extraction... that would have to be further processed to be ready to use in batteries. These guys have an end product that is much closer to the form of the metals that is used to make batteries.
It has to be sooooo easy to get your dead batteries to the one drop off location, on the other side of the tracks. Gotta have a better mouse trap... its 2024
Most unreliable consideration for EVs is eco idiots that push to downsize power production of seemingly any kind. EVs can be great and I want nothing to do with them if I live in California that has been unable to fix it's power delivery problems for more than 20 years.
@@rkan2Solar availability sure. It's no walk in the park though. The up front investment on an at home charging setup with solar and battery storage along with a good EV is comparable to running a modest mpg ICE vehicle for ~400,000 miles. EVs are very much still a wealthy persons privilege.
@@saccaed What battery? For most commuting miles you'll be able to charge plenty during the weekend for example. Besides, solar doesn't only need to be on your roof for it to give benefits when it comes to the grid. However in sunny places most average driving miles can be charged easily with a modestly sized solar system, even if you are working during the week. The investment isn't even that big if you're not buying the car solely on feeling. Also keep in mind not all sunny places have similar cost of fossil fuels. Many places in Europe are almost twice the price. Solar installation costs are also generally a bit cheaper outside California.
@@rkan2Battery is for charging the car at night. It is pointless to 'sell' power to the grid in California then subsidize night charging with the sales during the day; California made it such that consumer produced solar sold to the grid is a fraction of actual grid pricing. You are absolutely correct about pretty much every country that isn't the US having much higher fuel costs. They will have different maths to work out. For the US, EVs are a wealthy person toy. At home chargers are essentially non existent in rentals. Chargers have been making good penetration into retail store parking lots, gas stations and to some extent workplaces. For a none home owner in the US an EV more often than not more annoying to own than an ICE vehicle. All of the above before even touching the third of the country that does not live in high density cities.
I had a field trip to a steel mill that used recycled metal. They must have used appliances or industrial scrap and then added sacks of ingredients to clean up and get the qualities of the steel they wanted. They may have dipped their finger in at some point to get a taste, but the output would have been tested after rolling into geometries.
That is not the case with this process. When the cathode material comes out the end it is ready to go right back on a cathode foil. When one sees a good company they should buy shares while their cheap.
I believe at some point battery materials will be a national asset. Eventually the country would want to keep recycling and production as a closed loop. Most probable start to this would be in grid storage. Say the electrical company who used to run peaker plants, would move on to more and more grid storage systems, first from end of life EV battery packs, then recycle them back into grid storage arrays. as more and more EVs go through their life cycle you end up with excess materials, which you either sell to recycling companies, recycle yourself and sell the purified materials, or just manufacture new batteries as part of your business. In long term there will be enough materials to negate mining/import demand out right.
Obviously you're wrong. It's already shown that personal devices are first and pay the most for batteries. Second is vehicles including heavy mining and construction equipment. Then storage is after that. The US doesn't like mining, in Nevada or California where the lithium is. The chips act and others should have fast tracked lithium but they didn't. They talk like they have for votes but nothing significant is happening. It's the same thing as nuclear power, breeder reactors and fusion power. The US ahould have at least 50 billion a year in the budget for development and they have less than 1 that gets cut and raised randomly. The put so much money into the chips act that they can't use it and build the factories because the lack of workers. The US doesn't even have a plan for fixing that probelm.
I applaud the work both of you do however this time I can see biting of lips and joke’s being made when it comes to the commercial viability of these current generation of batteries being kept out of land fill I see problems big problems for the environment when we inevitably have dumping just like we have already with tyres and other unviable to recycle materials so many problems here I can only hope it doesn’t set back the whole concept of Electric cars because the whole thing has been been pushed to market too hard too fast by a wishful utopian green agenda that is artificially subsidised to the hilt instead of the engineers designers and accountants making it work organically JA
Battery recycling has always been the future for EVs. Elon has talked about it for years and it’s expected that within 2 decades 90% of battery materials will come from recycling There are already battery recycling plants in Asia, U.S.A and Europe and they are doing a good job. Battery tech has advanced so much in even 5 years and batteries now mostly have a life far greater than the car. There is an infant but growing business of using used EV car batteries in solar storage before they get recycled.
Recylicio commercializing Kemetco technology. Hydrometallurgical process derives precursor material as feed stock to make new batteries. Lithium products and precursor materials are the valuable end product of recycling batteries.
Two thoughts. 1. What impact on water resources where the otherwise tempting mining or processing sites are, if massively increasing battery production to go all EV instead of using PHEVs to provide single vehicle options that can do 90%+ driving on electricity and 3% to 10% with nearly the same efficiency as a simple hybrid? 2. JCB is producing Hydrogen burning construction equipment with high duty cycle use (like their Diesel powered older designs), wouldn't it be advantageous to convert some of the heavy mining equipment to Hydrogen that they can produce on site, or as close as possible to water sources suitable for hydrogen production?
There’s a dichotomy here for Sandy: he doesn’t want Government involved in ‘coordinating between companies but is he aware of laws against collusion between companies? Ultimately, Industry will need to coordinate and this is normally done in the US through DOE and Defense
Old batteries can / should be used in conjunction with solar, wind, hydro or other renewable energy as storage when sun isnt shining or wind isnt blowing etc. People use batteries from.old evs for home battery storage / back up power
Thanks for such an interesting topic. I think recycling is a topic that should not get handled in a private corporation form. This must be publicly owned in a form of a cooperative where everyone can be a member because this is about resources you have, how to handle them and sharing the results with everyone. Privately owned corporations are never in favor of the nature or preserving them, as we know. They want profit...
The Salton Sea in California is one of the largest sources of lithium with the McDermitt Caldera in Oregon/Nevada tribal land being the world’s largest. Looks like the Hungry Valley Indian reservation might end up being the next largest battery producer.
ALL CAR Races , should Already be 100% BEV and that should PHASE OUT all ICE Race cars . REPLACE w/ Lithium batteries Sponsored by BATTERY OEMs , who put their BEST battery cells into PERFORMANCE RACE cars to Compete. then Develop those into CONSUMER car Products.
@@justinr9753 - UNLIMITED Stock category I Drive STOCK Plaid S w/ RACING parts from UNPLUGGED . I do 1.866 1/4 mile STOCK tires. I am BANNED for being TOO FAST at Several Tracks. I dont use Parachute or Roll cage. STOCK car.
BTW - Tesla since 2018 has been INTERNALLY Recycling its used car Battery packs and started a Program to REPLACE under Warranty battery packs in S/X EARLY for Legacy MODELS. TESLA also Recycles OLD Wheel rims , shred them, melt them down in Gigacasting furnaces .
Jason didn’t bring his whiteboard? 😳
Then what are we even doing here?😢
HINT - Jason is NOT an actual BEV Engineer.
@@markplott4820 correct and he's been proven wrong publicly by an actual current world leading bev engineer from tesla and has refused to issue a retraction or apology for lying outright to his audience. Take down or edit his misleading cybertruck video!
Shameful behaviour imo, but he is a RUclips master click bater afterall. And they won't do anything despite reporting the video. 😏
Let's not forget Jason was anti-BEV forever. He attempted to show 🔋 energy density as unviable for 🚗, although factual was not truthful, as lithium tech was advancing rapidly. He amplified all the FUD from Tesla haters. Remember the shade on Plaid for 0-60 spec? When all the Amer car makers did the same for perf drag strip tests.
@@kbmblizz1940 well said! Moron blather on blindly about roll out. Yet since before I was born in 1982?
Every single manufacturer and testing company used rollout. 😂
Further more every drag strip pass ever made everywhere has rollout in the time which only varies by how deep you stage against the box.
When I mentioned this very simple fact to him, and asked if we should disregard drag times? I got the expected crickets back.
Heck rimac used rollout with all their latest nevera numbers. I also asked if he was gonna sh*t on them? Again absolute crickets! 👍🏻
Recyclico has the most important promising and transparent technology for EV batteries at the end of their life
You are absolutely correct and when one has done their homework they can own a piece of it. It is publicly traded!
And yes I own shares.
@@schulzmj1I thought about that when I heard about them years ago when they went public with the process. I looked them up then.
What is they're ticker? Isn't it the mining company and they converted it to this product and they have a contract with each other.
I wasn't expecting a Jason video today. I get him AND Sandy. Happy Friday!
It's such a treat to have Sandy interviewing people from AMY. It has been quite befuddling for me that the stock price has been on a steady decline for years - it seems as if their technology is unmatched, and the licensing of which from the big players would be inevitable.
It's too bad Sandy never got to speak with Larry - they had some similarities and I could've seen them getting along
MUNRO - Precision Fermentation can SOLVE the Graphite Recycling problem.
wow, you here in Toronto or is that Rochester?
Why didn't RecycLiCo Battery Materials receive Federal money to develop and implement this for establishing Canadian jobs? So much has been provided to foreign companies to provide for related factors in Ontario.
Sandy says, "has anyone ever coordinated this, I definitely don't want the government get involved... to get resources needed", answered, "They rely on economics... "; Sandy "then if that's the case we will never ever build a bridge". Well Sandy, who builds bridges? In almost all cases governments. Who will change economics, government has the ability. Sure governments can mess things up but they can also help get things rolling.
"uhm uhhh uhm uhhh". Love how this doesn't seem rehearsed.
Rehearsing would be a waste of time
I feel like a big tension is coming. The obvious choice in terms of price, longevity and sustainability going forwards is sodium ion batteries. But theres almost no reason at all to recycle them. Which means anyone into the mining, recycling or metals speculation side of things will demand we continue to use batteries with at least lithium and nickel in them. And maybe further along that wont be a problem... once we have electric flight en masse then we have a legitimate niche use that demands expensive materials and can keep the recycling and mining and metals speculators happy, while the rest of stable storage and most ground transport can switch to sodoum ion. But I worry about this interim period we are in for the next decade or so. I worry that sustainability and price to consumers will be forfiet to an entire industry pushing in a different direction.
Go LFP by far easier and cheaper.
Jason and Sandy are very complementary in their respective approaches and styles, more video together please! 👍👍
Sandy needs someone like Jason now that Cory’s left. Good combo, hopefully more of this collaboration.
Exactly! Sandy has the 🔥, but he needs to be partnered with order! 😆
This was boring as hell. I loved it. More deep dives please.
Boring, as in drilling deep into the topic. Well done!
This guy is why you go to school & study science
Exactly!
Make STEM compulsory and ban religion. Just imagine how much more advanced the world would be if there was no such thing as religion 🤔 which is man made and it DEFINITELY shows 🤨
@@TheManLab7Wow I'm not religious but you made me think I don't want to support anything you do.
So you set things back with you're bigoted mind.
Big Bang theory; presumably you don't believe in that theory because it was developed by the catholic church.
I'm 54 and never thought I'd be doing chemistry as a hobby. I'm refining my late fathers silver jewelry to make something new.
I also had a pressure wash company where I made my own cleaning agents. That means I have an account at a chemical manufacturer so the barrel of acid for desolving silver is cheap and easy.
This is really interesting and I agree with the STEM classes. I'm a high school drop out that went from a homeless teenager to a self made millionaire. I did that by studying what I'm interested in not what society says I should learn.
If you have a shop class and can learn welding in high school take it. If you want to be a doctor or CPA still learn to weld. You won't understand why until later in life.
Basically the ability to look at anything metal in the world And know you can fix it if it breaks or make one if you need it.
amazing technology, wish Recyclico and Kemetco all the success
You are at the start of your due-diligence and once you are done and you are satisfied you can buy a piece of it.
ruclips.net/video/1b4EIBznww0/видео.html
@@schulzmj1 oh I'm already invested in AMY for a few years. Just showing my support here!
@@pjetrs When did you buy?
The recycling efficiency is much better than I imagined, great!
ruclips.net/video/1b4EIBznww0/видео.html
This guy seems brilliant. Great interview. Thanks for the insights.
Really interesting to hear about what’s happening in terms of the recycling of EV batteries as there are literally millions and millions of them hitting the road and I wondered very much what was going to happen to them all. Loving the series that you guys are doing on all the aspects of the electric vehicle, very much appreciated thank you.
thanks, Munro and Associates. I really wanted to hear what these folks have to say.
Fantastic interview and kudos to Recyclico and Kemetco for developing this critical and very important technology..their years of R&D will be rewarded in a big way....I could see this technology being the industry standard for battery recycling...there are likely big name companies out there licking their chops to somehow aquire their tech as it solves the closed loop recycling issue with very little Co2 released
ruclips.net/video/1b4EIBznww0/видео.html
Thanks so much Sandy! Glad you made you way back to this facility again.
The future of metal mining is in waste recycling .
Has been forever. Waste from gold mines gets re-refined every 2 decades or so, with advances in chemistry.
@@FrunkensteinVonZipperneckRefining tailings is dirty business. My point is We have enough metals in the waste stream to be able to stop or at least slow down the extraction of virgin ore.
Good work guys. This should calm some fears. Two RUclips superstars helping spread the message is always good.
#nomoreLandfills, RECYCLE everything.
dont ship , 100% RECYCLE in - house.
idea 💡🔋 id like to see battery's be like the gold standard for cryptos make battery the new gold/oil & all u got to do is offer crypto for spent battery's & it will create a loop the crypto peopl will hunt down battery's for u♻💱💲
Awesome to see you working with Jason I didn't even know you knew eachother. Great synergy.
Very cool video, thank you for sharing!
I’ve been saying for years that there’s a real opportunity to make battery recycling a local effort. Rather than sourcing virgin materials for every EV imagine 25-30 battery recycling/manufacturing plants scattered across North America so we can reduce and hopefully eliminate dependence on extracting raw resources from hostile countries.
Recycling is the new mine, extracting less than 1% while the above is much higher...we need mining companies to take xx% of profits and insert into recycling projects.
🙋♂️THANKS SANDY AND THE MUNRO TEAM FOR SHARING THIS 🧐 INFO 😎💚💚💚
Vancouver is Earth's headquarters for mining companies, so it's the logical place to develop advances in mineral recycling.
Awesome video. These guys are based right here in beautiful Vancouver BC Canada 🇨🇦
Great discussion Guys. Scary to hear that they .have no place to just dump the material. It is like How to dispose of Long half life Radioactive materials.
It would be very interesting to see a similar discussion with Redwood Materials.
I wish they put more emphasis on the different chemistries. How can recycling an LFP battery be as lucrative as recycling an LNMC battery? Can you even make a business case for recycling LFP or now Na batteries?
Hi, as he mentions in the video (27:15) there are different ratios for each mineral even in the same chemistry classification, so unless you want to see a chart on the current prices of each mineral you will never be able to compare different chemistries. And none of that has to do with profit. Profit is the difference between what a product costs to manufacture and what you sell it for. So, if you sell your iron at 3 cents per pound, but get it for free, then you have made 3 cents. And if you sell your Nickel for 4 cents per pound, but it costs you 5 cents, then you have lost 1 cent.
Well if that is the case you can just throw them in a landfill.
@@jonathanjohnson8376LFP is different beast form NMC/NCA, but until recently only in China and 3/Y RWD had LFP batteries so only small portion of cars have these.
@@asaha7547 Hi, I am not sure why you are replying to me specifically. Are you saying that Kemetco's process can not be used for LFP batteries? Or are you trying to add more information to my reply?
@@jonathanjohnson8376because they (intentionally?) avoided mentioning LFP, while process most likely can be used with LFP my guess it is unprofitable unless Lithium prices skyrockets again as there are no Nickel/Cobalt there. So probably only Lithium and Copper can be recovered.
It was comment on the graph that stood out for me. There are not yet enough spent EV battery packs to recycle to get the economies of scale to really ramp up that part of the recycling industry.
That is very true but, 30% QC failure is a massive incentive for manufacturers.
Not enough spent batter packs BUT the 30% rejection in Manufacturing of new batteries is huge and would provide a lot of feed material and a lot of base elements for new battery manufacture
Various States have regulations on chemical battery disposal. It is not accurate to state there is none.
All have some but that only means you can't throw them in a landfill and not that they have to be recycled.
Vancouver ❤!
Topic is something I always wonder about, thank you for the insight
ruclips.net/video/1b4EIBznww0/видео.html
This is a great interview. I love the collaboration! Are you guys going to be able to tour/interview Redwood Materials? I would love to see the contrast in operations. Thanks!
If they will have us.
@@MunroLive I thought you had one planned? Wasn't it cancelled after you posted the first RecycLiCo video?
Redwood has nothing to contrast. Currently Redwood is deadwood.
@@schulzmj1 What's going on with them? I thought they were ramping up. Do you know something different?
@@geoguy85I will respond to your question later. 👍
Just starting listening.
I have a small box of mixed chemistry batteries. I can't find a place in my area to recycle them. I know there is valuable elements in them. And I don't want to throw them out or pay to have them recycled. I have all kinds, alkaline, lithium, nicad, nimh, lead acid is the only one that pays in my area
Is there any market-research and overview of competitors recycling processes available - to see and understand the advantages / differences of @RecycLiCo and other market-players ?
ruclips.net/video/1b4EIBznww0/видео.html
Super interesting subject thks
Hey Munro, you mentioned the problem of old tires, there is a German company called “Pyrum Innovations” who have a working pyrolysis plant and are building multiple new ones right now, to solve this problem.
The only reason I know who Jason is was through your podcast.
I'll see you soon. The highlighter PS kindness is always free, go Muskegon, Michigan.❤😊
Music to the ears of this chemical engineer.
What is the cost of recycling to the environment? How much power is required? Where do the chemicals go after? Economics are in favor of recycling vs mining however we need to look at the complete picture. Would love to hear that discussion.
I would like to know the opinion of Sandy Munro about the new Xiaomi SU 7
Wow, the complexities of lithium mining are crazy. Will we reach a point where nearly all of the materials coming from recycling?
That's the ultimate goal. A sustainable circular economy. Maybe not 100% but high 90s. In fact the lead/acid battery industry already claims to achieve 99% recyclability ...
I am not a radical environmentalist but reducing the amount of certain types of mining mining would not hurt my feelings.
This process will reduce the reliance on virgin material in a big way.
So 12tonnes of CO2 to recycle an EV battery. What cost to recycle a battery, and what % of materials can be reused?
It all adds up doesn’t it. From start to finish of life of an EV , CO2 savings compared to an ICE vehicle would be negligible.
They are selling EVs like hot cakes but there is no mandatory recycling that I am aware of?
When is there going to be government levy’s attached to the purchase price of an EV to subsidise the eventual recycling of the battery at the end of its 10 year life?
Government intervention ......... Bad Idea to pay for another bureaucracy.
All the costs on the recycling process and remanufacture will be paid by the consumer. All the electricity used all the machinery used , all the transportation required all the wages and benefits. more?
14:30 Stick to talking about recycling, you know little about where lithium comes from. less than 1%?😂 Most lithium is from brine coming from wells IVR, they pump out to fields. Hard rock is a newer area, as brine deposits go down. 1% is un economic to mine.
30% waste on new EV battery manufacturer is huge. Cost reductions with the solving of the rejection rate in itself will be massive. When rejection can get to sub 5% will give about a 25% savings in materials. Add this to advancing Battery technology the future cost of EV batteries will be substantially lower. The future if EVs is assured 😊
I agree with the last part, people are often fairly surprised when I say I bought an EV to return to reliability. My last 3 ICE half tons have had reliability troubles and we are only going back to 2013 for this.
16:52 I would argue various government efforts to combat "climate change" via mandates, penalties, and incentives is what has changed the auto industry.
I was a bit puzzled by the repeat harking on about the aluminium but no mention of the copper foil [in NMCs] worth much more than the ali. Otherwise in interesting deep dive.
Thank you so much for the interview! I drove a Jeep Wrangler quite a bit yesterday. Cool looking vehicle, not very enjoyable to drive around town compared to my Model Y. Acceleration, noise,body roll and gas station dependency. The only advantage to the Jeep was turning radius :-)
depreciation of EVs has to improve. And, can we be assured that electricity costs will stay low in the future? wind and solar are very expensive and intermittent so govt mandates will make future clean electricity costly.
Kemetco's High Purity Manganese development is also real important, since there is no North American production.
"Reduce , Reuse , Recycle" In that order! That order because its much better for the environment to reuse or replace damaged cells to get a longer life out of a battery than to grind it all down and reprocess the metal. Why not focus on repair-ability and replace ability in the design of the battery? This will not only bring down costs for the consumer but be much better for the environment
so recycling 100 units of batteries in this process, you'll be able to produce around 95 batteries? It was unclear to me.
38:01 - Australia is a developed country with a developing country's extractive economy.
Which partnerships have been established with material suppliers and customers for long-term sustainability?
I learned a lot. Thank you
A poison reef, you mean. See the study of the effects of various pollutants, including plastics and automotive tires, on the environment? Not good is an understatement.
so whole batteries go into the shredder/pulverizer and segregated electrolyte and cathode material comes out? That would quite a timesaver.
The electrolyte was evaporated in a drying stage after shredding. That is all part of the shredding/pulverizing process that reduces active whole batteries down to stable powdered feedstock.
What this company does is takes that powdered feedstock, or the coated foils direct from manufacturer waste, and extracts the metals used in making both the substrate foils and the active battery materials. As he stated, they are not in the shredding business and that is a more unstable business. Many companies are doing something similar to what these guys are doing, what is unique is that they have a streamlined process that greatly reduces the number of steps required to get to the metals.
Most of the other processes also dont generate a pure metal, but a compound that is a result of the solvent extraction... that would have to be further processed to be ready to use in batteries. These guys have an end product that is much closer to the form of the metals that is used to make batteries.
@@patreekotime4578 not closer, it is pCAM. can't get any better than that.
The batteries must be totally discharge before the process can begin.
This was great. Very clear explanations!
Корма, Амины ))) бывший фермер или варщик витаминов ?
If the black mass takes a lot of energy to produce, then it may cost more than it saves and still pollutes with co2 to run the furnace?
It has to be sooooo easy to get your dead batteries to the one drop off location, on the other side of the tracks. Gotta have a better mouse trap... its 2024
Most unreliable consideration for EVs is eco idiots that push to downsize power production of seemingly any kind. EVs can be great and I want nothing to do with them if I live in California that has been unable to fix it's power delivery problems for more than 20 years.
At least in California you can basically charge your EVs exclusively on solar in many situations...
@@rkan2Solar availability sure. It's no walk in the park though. The up front investment on an at home charging setup with solar and battery storage along with a good EV is comparable to running a modest mpg ICE vehicle for ~400,000 miles. EVs are very much still a wealthy persons privilege.
@@saccaed What battery? For most commuting miles you'll be able to charge plenty during the weekend for example. Besides, solar doesn't only need to be on your roof for it to give benefits when it comes to the grid.
However in sunny places most average driving miles can be charged easily with a modestly sized solar system, even if you are working during the week. The investment isn't even that big if you're not buying the car solely on feeling.
Also keep in mind not all sunny places have similar cost of fossil fuels. Many places in Europe are almost twice the price. Solar installation costs are also generally a bit cheaper outside California.
@@rkan2Battery is for charging the car at night. It is pointless to 'sell' power to the grid in California then subsidize night charging with the sales during the day; California made it such that consumer produced solar sold to the grid is a fraction of actual grid pricing. You are absolutely correct about pretty much every country that isn't the US having much higher fuel costs. They will have different maths to work out. For the US, EVs are a wealthy person toy. At home chargers are essentially non existent in rentals. Chargers have been making good penetration into retail store parking lots, gas stations and to some extent workplaces. For a none home owner in the US an EV more often than not more annoying to own than an ICE vehicle. All of the above before even touching the third of the country that does not live in high density cities.
Tesla is now a power utility. Tesla is solving brownouts in California and Texas... and Australia, and ....
Sxoof has 99% recyclable tech and already collaborating internationally.
I had a field trip to a steel mill that used recycled metal. They must have used appliances or industrial scrap and then added sacks of ingredients to clean up and get the qualities of the steel they wanted. They may have dipped their finger in at some point to get a taste, but the output would have been tested after rolling into geometries.
That is not the case with this process. When the cathode material comes out the end it is ready to go right back on a cathode foil. When one sees a good company they should buy shares while their cheap.
Carbonscape has developed method to make graphite from wood.
consumers will not determine the future rides...government will.
I believe at some point battery materials will be a national asset. Eventually the country would want to keep recycling and production as a closed loop.
Most probable start to this would be in grid storage. Say the electrical company who used to run peaker plants, would move on to more and more grid storage systems, first from end of life EV battery packs, then recycle them back into grid storage arrays. as more and more EVs go through their life cycle you end up with excess materials, which you either sell to recycling companies, recycle yourself and sell the purified materials, or just manufacture new batteries as part of your business. In long term there will be enough materials to negate mining/import demand out right.
Obviously you're wrong. It's already shown that personal devices are first and pay the most for batteries. Second is vehicles including heavy mining and construction equipment. Then storage is after that.
The US doesn't like mining, in Nevada or California where the lithium is. The chips act and others should have fast tracked lithium but they didn't. They talk like they have for votes but nothing significant is happening.
It's the same thing as nuclear power, breeder reactors and fusion power. The US ahould have at least 50 billion a year in the budget for development and they have less than 1 that gets cut and raised randomly.
The put so much money into the chips act that they can't use it and build the factories because the lack of workers.
The US doesn't even have a plan for fixing that probelm.
I applaud the work both of you do however this time I can see biting of lips and joke’s being made when it comes to the commercial viability of these current generation of batteries being kept out of land fill I see problems big problems for the environment when we inevitably have dumping just like we have already with tyres and other unviable to recycle materials so many problems here I can only hope it doesn’t set back the whole concept of Electric cars because the whole thing has been been pushed to market too hard too fast by a wishful utopian green agenda that is artificially subsidised to the hilt instead of the engineers designers and accountants making it work organically
JA
Battery recycling has always been the future for EVs. Elon has talked about it for years and it’s expected that within 2 decades 90% of battery materials will come from recycling There are already battery recycling plants in Asia, U.S.A and Europe and they are doing a good job. Battery tech has advanced so much in even 5 years and batteries now mostly have a life far greater than the car. There is an infant but growing business of using used EV car batteries in solar storage before they get recycled.
Black powder, 30% waste. 70% remaining -12% = 58%. The 12% is former aluminum foil that had anode material applied.
Recylicio commercializing Kemetco technology. Hydrometallurgical process derives precursor material as feed stock to make new batteries. Lithium products and precursor materials are the valuable end product of recycling batteries.
@@mefobills279That tech is not Kemetco technology it is RecycLiCo Technology. RecycLiCo holds all the patents.
@@mefobills279That is RecycLiCo Technology. It holds all the patents.
Mined material has over 99% waste so your point is?
@@InformedKiwi It is a synopsis of the process. Draw your own conclusions.
AWESOME THANKS FOR VIDEO!
You bet!
Two thoughts.
1. What impact on water resources where the otherwise tempting mining or processing sites are, if massively increasing battery production to go all EV instead of using PHEVs to provide single vehicle options that can do 90%+ driving on electricity and 3% to 10% with nearly the same efficiency as a simple hybrid?
2. JCB is producing Hydrogen burning construction equipment with high duty cycle use (like their Diesel powered older designs), wouldn't it be advantageous to convert some of the heavy mining equipment to Hydrogen that they can produce on site, or as close as possible to water sources suitable for hydrogen production?
There’s a dichotomy here for Sandy: he doesn’t want Government involved in ‘coordinating between companies but is he aware of laws against collusion between companies? Ultimately, Industry will need to coordinate and this is normally done in the US through DOE and Defense
Old batteries can / should be used in conjunction with solar, wind, hydro or other renewable energy as storage when sun isnt shining or wind isnt blowing etc. People use batteries from.old evs for home battery storage / back up power
bro's doing a phd dissertation lol
Thanks for such an interesting topic. I think recycling is a topic that should not get handled in a private corporation form. This must be publicly owned in a form of a cooperative where everyone can be a member because this is about resources you have, how to handle them and sharing the results with everyone. Privately owned corporations are never in favor of the nature or preserving them, as we know. They want profit...
The Salton Sea in California is one of the largest sources of lithium with the McDermitt Caldera in Oregon/Nevada tribal land being the world’s largest. Looks like the Hungry Valley Indian reservation might end up being the next largest battery producer.
Would have liked to see some discussion on recyclability of prismatic vs pouch etc. And non-serviceable (Tesla) vs more repairable modular solutions.
👍👍
Wow, send the invitation now that's a powerhouse, the Highlander. PS kindness is always free. Free can be good.😊❤
Sounds like a great company. I appreciate the discussion on battery recycling in general as well. Thanks, for this!!
Electric drive train is inevitable.
Taiwan has naturally occurring sulfuric production that will help this process become cheaper.
People talk about how they should have invested in a great company when it was cheap but they didn't.
Well I did with this one.
ALL CAR Races , should Already be 100% BEV and that should PHASE OUT all ICE Race cars .
REPLACE w/ Lithium batteries Sponsored by BATTERY OEMs , who put their BEST battery cells into PERFORMANCE RACE cars to Compete.
then Develop those into CONSUMER car Products.
What category do you race in?
@@justinr9753 - UNLIMITED Stock category
I Drive STOCK Plaid S w/ RACING parts from UNPLUGGED .
I do 1.866 1/4 mile STOCK tires.
I am BANNED for being TOO FAST at Several Tracks.
I dont use Parachute or Roll cage. STOCK car.
@@markplott4820What year is your Plaid S?
@@SufferJoker - dont know Bought from Unplugged for $200k.
Redwood materials has to be leading the industry. Jb was early in tesla and id bet has all the contracts to recycle old tesla batteries
Super interesting!
Shoutout to Norman Chow... obviously very knowledgeable.
Im really looking forward to an EE summary of this conversation!
42:19 "I definitely don't want the govt to get involved" Sandy, did you oppose IRA? If so, how do you propose we better reach net zero?
Anything the government puts it fingers into screws it up.
BTW - Tesla since 2018 has been INTERNALLY Recycling its used car Battery packs and started a Program to REPLACE under Warranty battery packs in S/X EARLY for Legacy MODELS.
TESLA also Recycles OLD Wheel rims , shred them, melt them down in Gigacasting furnaces .
How do they recycle them? Why don't they talk about their internal recycling process?
@@energy_dense - the DO EVERY Year in the Tesla IMPACT Report. published Annually.
Isn't the aluminium alloy of the gigagastings a bit more specific?
@@rkan2 - YES, they can also Recycle ALL the Gigacasting scrap as well, in the Furnace .
the Gigacast materiel is an ALLOY. Designed by SpaceX.
@@energy_denseTesla does not talk about recycling used batteries because they don't and they can't
Having grown up shooting flintlock rifles, hearing you discuss black powder makes me smile. BOOM!
What is the economic status for recycling LFP batteries?
Eh umm emm umm eh err .