New Kirkwood home torn down in the middle of construction after a small mistake puts the property in
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 17 фев 2022
- A Kirkwood home in the middle of development was torn down this week because at one point during the process, the property was built in violation of city code by over 1 foot, and the city would not let that one mistake slide.
The fact that they destroyed the building without trying to salvage the wood and pipes really pissed me off.
same here. total waste of everything
Yep me too. I could’ve had that building down in five days and salvaged all the materials? maybe sent them to Habitat for Humanity I don’t know.
Somebody must have had a hand in the contract to raze it instead and got paid a kickback. The original comment stands very firm !!
It is not economically feasible to salvage anything from this building. The cost to remove all fasteners stack and store the lumber alone would cost more than to demo it into a dumpster and build it back with new materials.
I really love who people speak without knowledge, how does the bottom of your shoe taste there!
@@deepdirtysouth2394 you have never framed a house in your life ! You are making statements of pure ignorance!
I bet if "The City" made a mistake with one of their buildings it would be granted an exception.
The city is just as much to blame as anyone else.
Of course it would, because council members are in each others' pockets.
it's the same city who sued hyundai because their residents couldn't stop stealing cars
------------ " NO, they wouldn't make public the mistake, cover it up and move on until completion! It's one of many gifts Washington Politicians have taught local Governments how to cheat, steal, lie and screw the tax payers! " -----------
@@aero9009nah, that’s justified. Hyundai and Kia both cut corners that they shouldn’t have.
You have to pay attention when a house is being built for you. Decades ago friends of mine built their first home. He went by the build every day to look it over. He routinely found things done wrong and had it corrected before they went further. He was a thorn in the contractor's side but the home was built correctly in the end. It appears that little has changed in almost forty years.
Yeah I've been in construction since the late 70s and if the homeowner comes by daily and checks out your work hey shouldn't have a problem with that if you're doing the job right just as long as they're not complete jackasses and do know what their looking at. But mostly you rarely see them.
In this case, the inspector failed by allowing construction to move forward.
@@Matt-kt9nm yes but it happens very often you hear stories sometimes decades down the line.
Had a well know criminal lawyer buddy do that, big case of galloping anal fixation but necessary. He's a detail man and in his job lives may be on the line (or life in prison may be on the line). Drove his builders nuts and they want'ed to SLAM everything in. No, you're not.
Now they use labor that is not even close to the same skill level as 50 years ago. Too many are graduating from trade schools who barely know more than they did on day one.
Horrible to think it's the clients problem to pay out. That alone should shut the company down.
Owner should have insurance options to cover builder screw-ups.
Measure twice build once.
Absolutely. Just good old common sense.
But I'm paid by the hour.😁
@Ivan Garcia then you should have commented it instead of looking for it silly
@@creativenamegoeshere8499
Most people don't like to repeat someone else's comment, genius.
@@ccdogpark ok if that's how you do it that's cool. I was just thinking that it's a lot easier to write your comment instead of spending/wasting time going through all the comments to see if anyone else already had the same thought as you because more than likely they did. But hey if you want to waste your time then go ahead genius. I'm going to spend mine reading rocket science journal quarterly.
Shame on the superintendent and City inspector. That mistake should have been caught when the city came out to sign off on the foundation. which happens before framing and backfill of the foundation.
Exactly!!
Sue the city
In my country building inspectors are usually people who couldn't cut it as contractors so I'm not surprised they dropped the ball.
Yes, so why isn't the city inspector being held responsible then?
I am sure the city inspector was busy pigging out one a few box of donuts. In a sugar coma and had no clue what was going on. What a crazy wasteful use of materials.
I worked on a house with an aircraft hanger recently where the foundation on the hangar was wrong (too narrow) because surveyors set the pins, masons didn't question the difference in dimensions, the framers didn't question the differences, and no one knew or bother to question anything until the roof trusses were delivered. Unreal.
So what happened?
@@LucasFromTexas The super was friends with the building inspector. (They were both arrested together about a month ago for extreme DUI) So the inspection passed. The subdivision is on highly expansive soil. Stemwall was already cracking and has separated about a half inch before the property closed. Not sure where it stands now. But there are massive problems with other properties with conventional foundations in the area. It pays to be a drinking buddy with the town building inspector.
@@betternedthandead An Air Park like the one south of Calgary, Alberta?
Well, that whole ordeal started because the concrete guy didn't inform the builder that the survey pins were wrong. As a concrete contractor of over 40 years, I have called out many surveyor issues PRIOR to starting my work, because I never wanted the liability of screwing something up due to my own stupidity. However, in your situation, it became even more compounded when the framers just did the same thing. Unbelievable doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of that epic failure! I expect to see a lot more of this now that the construction industry continues to source their (cheap) labor from south of the border! The language is different and the standards are different. They are less likely to speak up regarding a problem, so as not to rock the boat and delay the construction process....right or wrong!
LOL
This is sad this happened. I’ve built many homes in my life, and every single time I hired a surveyor to put pins for the 4 corners of the house to square off of. It’s required in Florida to have a site plan stamped by a licensed surveyor . I built my last house on 5 acres far from the property line and I still paid the extra to have a surveyor put his blessing on the project.
Cheap insurance 👍
I get a lot of bitching about how expensive survey is but not surveying can be very, very expensive down the road.
This makes me wonder how they managed to pass the foundation inspection phase of the permitting process if the foundation was more than a foot over the setback line. A lot of things had to go wrong to get this far along in construction with multiple inspections and permits signed off on. I hope the homeowner gets a lawyer of her own, as this is going to get MESSY.
No matter what the General contractor is liable. That tiny ass lot would’ve been a piece of cake to survey could do it with just a tape measure.
I believe the inspector would only be checking the quality of the physical foundation not how it was situated on the lot.
Along with the sub contractor whose taken the blame for not re survey the property line. Which was not required till after. So many mistakes.. definitely messy. The city and other makes it sound easy breezy.
Its Kirkwood. Try getting an inspector to come out to do his job, they are all hiding because of... you know... covid. Kirkwood, MO for some reason has a great reputation but is really a craphole of tiny houses full of screaming Karens.
I’m betting that someone did know a proceeded anyway. You’ve heard the saying “ it’s easier to ask for forgiveness that permission” but not in this case.
It's up to the contractor to ensure the lot is surveyed correctly, he's trying to blame a subcontractor, ridiculous!
@Tyrone Brown first of all its responsible, secondly it's the contractor's duty to make sure the Floorplan fits the property once the real-estate survey is done. Lastly, their zoning or building department has the last say in the matter
Form board crew screwed it up, set the forms by accident 1 foot forward. But in reality we don’t have the entire facts! So guess it’s just a guess!
@@tomcander3669 as a contractor myself, and a person who absolutely despises the stupidity of zoning boards. There is absolutely no reason why a mistake this minimal cannot be approved. This is bureaucratic authority gone mad and frivolous waste.
@@barnandhome it's because variances are not usually given after the fact. 18" on a 5' setback is huge. Just sounds like the developer is passing the buck
@@tomcander3669 yeah I get some of that.... but you don't tear down a freaking house and rip up the foundation. How many homes and buildings are on this planet with zero lot lines? My county sucks to work with compared to dozens of surrounding counties, so they lose investors and contractors all the time. There's times to make exceptions.
I want to thank the City of Kirkwood for doing the right thing and enforcing the zoning laws.
Good job for the city not letting it slide. Many municipalities let the big builders get away with not building up to code.
Very unfortunate indeed. However, to destroy a home that far along is pure idiocy. Give someone a bit of power (the municipality) and they just go nuts. Very sad.
It was discovered before the house was that far along. Someone took a chance it would be overlooked or approved anyway. They lost. Not the municipality's fault.
Is it made from wood? Why pull all house down not just three foot?
The problem is bigger than this one property. If this build was allowed a green light - local builders would know that they could fudge the set back line requirements and that would lead to a snowball effect of builders not following hard boundaries and requirements.
I personally wish our American cities were more compact but there is a reason for setbacks, and it has to due to the fact that a vast majority of American houses are built from wood. Look up any old city, and it likly has the phrase "great fire of..." somwhere in it's history. American cities used to be very flammable, and still are today, to an extent.
Kirkwood is ran by liberal democrat nut jobs who will in turn protest the cutting of more trees to build what they just destroyed.
I’ve been drawing blueprints for residential and commercial properties for over a decade now, and my design starts with the survey of the property and the setback requirements in the area the property is located. To see a mistake as obvious as this get so far into the building process should bring shame on Everyone involved in the construction of this home!
They are ALL at fault.
Wrong.
Hi Bri - do you re-sell the homes you've designed? As in, your blueprints? Or do you just design and give to the client?
Helping to ruin more of what all ready being poorly done. why would any body be bothered by a foot makes it scary and sickly.
@@rickmcphee4206 Right 🤡
20 yrs ago I worked with a crew that did footing layout about 3 feet off because the boundary line was listed on the print as being at corner of utility box, there wasn't a curb, no road markers. We had a utility box to go from. Well, we didn't tear that house down because it was on a big parcel but it's very common to be thrown off quickly from the start.
--edit-- I blame the guys who dug and set footings for not being 'darn' certain, and the contractor general for being lazy and not being 'darn' certain especially knowing there is tight parcels.. ; )
When i put in a foundation for our home the inspector measured it to assure it was legal and that is there job. Get that inspector in court.
Yep. A new house was being built across the street from me a few years ago. Somehow, the foundation (large ranch with full basement) was poured 20(!!!) feet past the set back. The city did not complain, a neighbor did, and the city then made the owner knock in the entire foundation and redo it. That had to hurt.
I just made a comment above, about a duplex across the street where they did the same thing, except it was just a concrete floor.
Somebody was pushing their limits, on boundaries. I'm surprised that they stopped this construction. Somebody pissed a inspector off .
The inspectors signed off on it, hence it almost being finished.
I would have tried to buy the 1 1/2 feet of property from the next door Neighbor ....Lease or buy or sue the Builder !!!!
This is typical when you get inspectors involved, there job is to slow you down and cost you more money. I had 27 inspections to finish my house and not a one of them had ever built a house.
Inspector should be fired for wastefulnesses
More like the city has a bone for this guy... I know that I am a builder and I've made my share of screw ups just like this one most if not all were forgiven
Many contractors live by the moto "It's easier to beg for forgiveness , than it is to ask permission."
With that in mind, why wasn't the mistake caught before the walls went up?
Something stinks, here.
If you ask me, there's something kinda of fishy🤔🤔
Haste makes waste.
That motto goes with assuming makes and ASS out of U and ME. Never assume when a customers money and your pay is on the line
They lived by some sort of motorized thing; not a motto?
There's all sorts of mottos that make people think and do silly things haha
Well the fact they tore it down without saving the wood is really upsetting
It's a lot more work to disassemble a structure than to demolish it, they're already going to have to eat the cost as-is, and the actual customer wants their house sooner rather than later. You can tear down a house in a day, disassembling takes a lot longer.
@@adamb89 Well they should at least recycle the wood for other buildings that would help save on wood costs of course if the wood is bad say in a old building of course don't use it but in this case you could justify that reusing the wood for another building wouldn't be a bad idea I think you missed by point by focusing to much on the time aspect of things rather than the overall idea of the message
@@mechax1 How exactly do you expect that to happen lol? "Yeah hey so the house we nearly finished, we gotta scrap it and start over. We could demolish it, but instead we're gonna take 2 months to dismantle it the same way we put it together, so we can save a few bucks. Hope you don't mind."
@@adamb89 2 months? Found the government worker in the comments.
It cost more in labour to save the wood than to demolish the house and dump it in the landfill!!
I remember a case where we had a builder build on the lot next door. This was found just before closing at the final survey. They builder managed to exchange the lot, get they buyer to move one door down and we transferred the inspections.
Contractor can say it’s the subcontractors fault all he wants. Everyone knows that the contractor is at fault. It’s his job to double check and make sure every step of the build is done correctly. Not to mention if it was noticed early on and they continued the build,that shows how inept the contractor is. And they could’ve totally reused most of that building materials.
Residential GC's
C O N T R A C T-or.
I'm thinking it was the surveyors. Or whoever laid out the basement. You dont just add another couple feet to a house and everything just works out in the end. Everything would be short. Materials would be short and nothing layout wise would work proper. That didnt seem to be the issue so it looks like the house was just put on the wrong spot.
And yet they just kept building after they noticed.
@Tyrone Brown they have to have a building permit lol. Most inspectors are checking for construction code NOT the layout of the actual house
Damn with the price of lumber I'm surprised they didn't try to salvage some of it.
Was thinking the same thing. But it probably would cost more to pay someone to take it down piece by piece.
@@meyou245 Yes. plus pay someone to take the nails out of the studs, floor joist, rafters etc. would add to the cost.
Id have taken it down free for the lumber
Yeah, this made me sick to watch for that very reason.
They got plenty money, and project was already red tagged by city, means no work, no entry, that suxs!!!
The setbacks rule is ridiculous. All they needed was a variance, If people have money to throw away like this give it to the poor!
As a licensed contractor; when I build, any structure, as close to a property line as possible, I rely on myself to make sure I know all building codes & I don't rely on fences, tree lines, shrub lines, neighbors, etc...to establish a property line! A survey is an absolute must have prior to architectural drawings, permit applications & construction, period! This is the contractor's fault, not a subcontractor & not the permit department's either. The first thing to do on any job is call a surveyor in order to be absolutely sure of property lines.
I "disassembled" a 3 story grain and feed facility, built in the early 50's, about 30 years ago. I sold the majority of the material on site, kept the best of the best to build my own home, since sold for a large profit. The thing is, it was built different then a modern home. Hand nailed boards, and nails that wouldn't break off when you used a cats paw on them! By the time you get a glued sub floor on TJI's up, you have trashed the 3/4" sub floor and probably the joists , they DO NOT come apart as easy as they go together, not even close. Getting the OSB off the trusses would trash the OSB, but the trusses could have been saved, with a lot of extra labor cleaning them up. Demo work is also, or can be, more dangerous than new construction, in the way things move around when using large pry bars, not to mention exposed nails to step on. I think most of the comments here are from people that have never tore down a substantial structure, it is a lot of damn work, BUT, if time was not a factor, for the right hard working and motivated crew, this house could have been cost effective to tear down by hand, if that crew's time was not highly valued. Blame modern pneumatic nail guns and staplers and construction adhesives for much of this.
My dad is a construction worker and knowing him he would have paid someone else to do it because he wouldn't want to deal with it.
Nobody would want to try and save OSB, you couldn't, it's built to crumble and that is what it does best. It's cheap. that's what you can say about OSB. It's cheap and full of chemicals. And it's cheap. My house is old. You couldn't give me a new house. A truck hit my house, airborne at about 50 mph and the header to my champion picture window stopped it. My front wall was built with 1 x 6 or 1 x 8s. My new wall isn't worth a nickel. It's not OSB, Isaid no OSB but it's not built back like it was and you can hear sounds from the road like a window is open. I wouldn't waste the money on a new house. Not a nickel for new construction. Not one nickel.
The lazy way wins every time
I would have been happy to tear it down and reuse most of the wood. A sawsall, hammer, flat bar, sledgehammer and a few more tools, and a week is all I need with my crew. We're rebuilding a house that burned and saving thousands by reusing studs that didn't burn.
What I was thinking was board for resaw. Some things can not be manually saved.
I've been a new home builder for 25 years. We ALWAYS do a foundation as-built survey to verify it's in the correct location prior to buying a stick of lumber. This is the builder's fault. It's his job to have the surveyor verify the location of the foundation.
And the Contractor is the one who selected this surveyor to do the work. I hear it often that its the Sub. Nobody cares. It's the same as if they were on your payroll.
Of course the builder will try to blame a subcontractor. Builders threaten subcontractors with no future jobs. As an owner of a build job I have seen it.
i say they could have built a new foundation wall and tore the side wall down and rebuilt it 2 feet narrower and it would be easy to fix
@@carmineredd1198 You would still need to move plumbing and other stuff. You would need to make the changes to the build plan and submit the changes to the city for their approval. And most of all will the owner, who is having the house built, go along with the change?
@@everybuddy5924 Still about ten times cheaper than a complete do-over.
This keeps happening. People try to fit an oversized house on an undersized lot and rely on getting forgiveness instead of permission. Glad someone stopped it.
It would be more practical to move the house two feet or two miles than to try to salvage the materials. Jack up the house on cribbing and extend the foundation two feet on this side and close it in two feet on the other side. Shift the house and set it back down.
But would it be cost effective? The house was pretty far from finished. Hopefully someone did crunch the numbers on simply moving the house, but at this stage of construction, it might not be worth it.
I framed many houses over many years, in Texas and in the Mid Atlantic. It is not practical to disassemble the house and reuse materials. Those gun nails are impossible to remove without damaging the lumber. Subfloor is glued down. Everything is shot full of gun nails, and all you would be saving would be damaged used material
The building codes for setbacks have been there forever. They just made mistakes hoping the city would allow for waiver.
If they new the slab was in wrong place, they should have busted it up before another 20-30 k of materials was used.
@@twobeagles1365 They clearly didn't know until later when a survey was done. Why they didn't do that first who knows, but the city is just being jerks like they always are
The video clearly states that the issue was found after pouring the slab but before framing started...
More than likely one size cookie cutter house. Would have cost a lot of money to redesign a couple feet shorter on one side so they just took the chance.
@@drewfoster1493 No, it clearly states that it was after the slab had been poured AND WORK ON THE BUILDING OF THE FRAME HAD BEGUN. Listen to it again at 1:36 they say it.
This reminds me of an episode of The Jetsons, in which during the ongoing feud between Spacely Sprockets and Cogwell Cogs, one of the bosses complained about the other's new office building, for being one inch too tall, so the city sent out a drone, which smashed the roof with a hammer, causing the whole thing to shatter and crumble to the ground in a small pile, which was then swept up into a dust pan by the drone, and the drone flew off. And that's my random, more than half-century memory of the day.🤔🤗
I remember that…😀
Ruh-roh, George.
🤣😂🤣
Classic!
Yes, truth is stranger than the Jetsons.
ALWAYS have a land survey completed before buying, selling, or building. The end.
I was on a code review board for 10 years. Builders know the setbacks for property lines and they try to build over line all the time. They build fast and ask for a variance when the house is 50% or more complete. The city did the right thing in making them demolish and start over.
Any "reputable" builder that has been in business for that long, should always start by having an official site survey, and accurate plans, done, verified and approved by the city/township. There is absolutely no excuse.
Yes. My late brother was an architect and had a general contractors license. He spent the money on making sure any project of his was being done correctly. He would include the extra detail cost into the price of his projects. He would also do his own inspections on a regular basis to verify specs. He was always a meticulous person throughout his life.
“No city requirement for a survey prior to build” it’s the city’s fault , could’ve taken the footage off of the encroachment side / reframed that one side and added the sq ft to the back or other side
@@guysumpthin2974 -- nope. Still the GC/builders's respinsibility, for the sake of saving their own behind, to measure, verify, survery, and get site plans done *before* anything gets done. Any *responsible and reputable* builder/GC will always start with that.
You have to before you can start building anything. So pretty sure he had approved blueprints and a permit before he broke ground. He damn well didn't get to the framing stage without anyone noticing
@@hbm_54 He has to have all that done before he can get approval for a building permit. So just wondering why the state inspector even passed the footings if in wrong location 🤔.
Blaming the subcontractor is a joke
Right the builder is definitely at fault here
They have to put the blame on someone else, or people wont trust their work.
CYA is the name of the game in the world of Construction. Everybody is always trying to hang the blame for this sort of thing on someone else. And believe me, with the number of hands in the cookie jar, from start to finish on a job, there are plenty of people to point at. There were several opportunities to catch this mistake before the walls ever went up, both by the building inspectors, the footing contractors, the surveyors, and the general contractor and/or jobsite supervisor. I'm sure they'll all trying to hang the blame on each other, when in fact, they are all to blame, the way I see it.
Government has become nothing but a hindrance..
It's the City's fault for refusing to budge a measly 1.6". Such a ridiculous hill to die on.
The contractor may want to blame the subcontractor but ultimately everything that happens on a job site is the contractors responsibility. Therefore it was his responsibility to double-check to make sure that his subcontractor did everything correctly
If I tell a client "my employee messed that up, it's not my fault so I can't do anything about it" that would be my last client......essentially thats what the general is saying. Clearly not a good contractor.
To the customer, sure, the contractor should always accept blame and delegate to the appropriate subcontractor for corrective action.
But when we're talking legal, some or all of the blame can and should absolutely reasonably fall on the relevant subcontractor in some situations.
What a waste of material
More fill for the land fill
I don't know why they did not have someone take it down in an orderly manner so that much of that material could be reused. I have helped tear down a couple houses and most of the lumber from them was perfectly fine to be reused on another project. It is such a waste to just tear it apart with an excavator.
time is money, they can get it down quickly with an excavator
Ova Dumb Shit!!!! 18" not hurtin either side!!! Sad...n Stupid!!!
St Louis worried about wasted material? Funny.
That alone should be reason enough for a pass. Those in charge truly don't see the big picture
100% agree with the city. Builders know the code and if they dont they shouldn't be building a house.
I believe the builder was at fault. His foundation was against codes already in place. It is his responsibility to follow those codes or face a violation.
Can’t blame anyone with out facts!
@@cristianmendio2461 I bet if the builder looked at the plans the city approved, the foundation size and location on paper does not match and what's on the ground.
@@nasilamak2201 Bet… how much? Construction matched ‘paper’ but without a legitimate survey, the paper wasn’t worth crap. Builder was responsible as you said but town was derelict in not requiring (‘til recently 2021-12) a legit survey as a condition of approval.
@@nasilamak2201 The plans where already approved by city, because the engineer sealed them as approved. We don’t know the rest, by logic anyone that builds knows there city set back. The only ones that commit this errors are new foundation crews. The ones that went to work for Juan for 6 months, stole his tools, than 2 guys, and called himself a professional! Lol
Follow the crack pipe.
What the reporter fails to mention is when the initial hole was dug the properties on both sides had their yards collapse into the hole. On One side it was their driveway, the other side it was the backyard fence. Seems that should have a raised a red flag that there was no room for measurement error. Instead, they kept on building thinking the city council would go along with it. Thank goodness they could not buy off the council.
They sure did leave that part out!... Thank you so much for the back story and good on you for shedding additional light onto this builders greed!...
I used to work in construction, and believe it or not, as shocking as it may sound, not all officials are corrupt. Enough of them are that it would make it seem as if all of them are corrupt, but that's not always the case. I saw my fair share of corrupt inspectors and contractors, though, I can tell you that for a fact.
Where are you getting that information?
@@slappy8941 same here. And I’m from Chicago.
@@jonnydanger7181 I lived across the street and am friends with one of the affected homeowners. I have watched this S-show from the beginning. I have never witnessed anything like it.
Next level Expert here…
Municipality always runs from accountability… The municipality makes so much money and forgets to do its job than puts it on the builder… This is also knows as a crime… You can’t do that..
I don't understand why it couldn't just been given a pass. Pay a fine still be better then torn down. That's dumb government over reach. Those officials need to be fired or voted out. Just so dumb.....
3/2 like a SC decision. The neighbour was all good with it, it would not have affected a view or any real access. We're on a cul-de-sac in LA and our original carport is zero lot line, from the 1950's and grandfathered in, but not allowed today. Exceptions occur all the time, and allowing this wouldn't release the hounds at all. Stuff happens.
Local government***
As "sad" and wasteful of resources due to the locality's final decision was to cease construction on this building initially appears to be; Unfortunately, If the municipality had granted a setback waiver for this one building, the council would then be setting a legal precedent which would essentially pave the way for any future builds to not adhere to the current building code requirement of having a minimum of a 5 foot distance from adjacent properties. It's not about "being nice" or "give someone a break" or about one person's financial loss when major construction errors like these occur. The "big picture" is much more complicated legally, and in this instance, I wouldn't be surprised if the 5 foot minimum setback is a state zoning code requirement, which would put the municipality in legal jeopardy with the state if they had granted a setback waiver. I do hope they figure out who is ultimately responsible for this error and that they are able to make the person whole who has contracted to build this house.
Sure give them the pass and everyone will do the same. Fire codes are often what the set-back are. I have done project that are built to the property line and it built out of concrete.
@@tomnguyen9931 Right you are. The minimum between the 2 properties is actually 10' in this locality. Barely enough for utility or fire department vehicles to be able to access if need be. Nobody wants to follow any "rules" anymore, because they have No idea what the "big picture" is that support the rationals for the rules that are made in the spirit of what is the highest good for the community. We are living in the days of "Me, me, me ME. "
This is why every home needs to have its own acre
People love on top of each other
It is sick
Every home on its own acre? There’s only so much land lol
Derp derpity derp derp
Lol, preference and convenience is what people like, when they live on top of each other. I'm willing to bet, none of these properties are 1 acre, much less close. I live on 40 acres, for what most of these houses go for on a market in over crowded locations. Probably even half of what these houses go for. 2200 square feet is enough for me, I wouldn't mind 7500 square feet in my shop. But I have time to build.
@@Jay-rg5mt Actually there is a ton of land. The problem is that the government owns it.
I like it most people live in congested areas. My closest neighbor is a quarter mile away and don't want any more in my area. Lol
I have known that since I was a pre teenager. How a contractor made the mistake is pure negligence.
In reality, and IMO, the city changed it's rules after all the permits were issued. I would have taken the city to court. The city is the one to issue permits. and if the city failed to notice the wrong setback, then the city should have to pay for the demo of the house.
Once a permit is granted, I thought it can not be revoked unless their are changes that were not stated on the application for the building permit.
IMO A city, county and/or state building permits are legal contracts that state you said when filing for the permit is correct and the building inspector saw everything was up to code. This would be breach of contract on the city's part.
There are sometimes mistakes when building new homes, even when my parents built their new home, there were a lot of mistakes.
the driveway curb cut was way, way off by 5 ft. then there was the address to the new home that was incorrect at the time. But my parents did not know it until the Fire department told them of the correct address. After my parents lived there for almost a year.
@@crazyknarf You're very naive!
@@crazyknarf In reality, and IMO, the city changed it's rules after all the permits were issued." is a foolish statement
@@henrimatisse7481 If you sign a contract and you and the other party agree on the terms, then all of a sudden the other party wants to charge you more for that contract, You will state that the first contract will be null and void. And someone will have to draft up another contract to the likings of both parties.
Say you do roofing work and you ask for $1,000. You and the homeowner agree to the contract that you both sign.
Now the homeowner does not want to pay that much when the work is almost complete. You will either take him/her to court for breach of contract. Or try to work out a deal for the roofing job you just did.
Or if you do not have enough manpower to do the work within the time limits of said contract. Then the homeowner can state that the contract is null and void.
This is depending on which state you live in.
If building permits were issued then the city is at fault.
I have noticed in some other areas that are building new homes amongst older post WWII neighborhoods that the size of the new construction dwarfs the existing structures resulting in a ridiculous look. There is no continuity in the architectural flow of the neighborhood.
It absolutely destroys the neighborhood. These new construction homes are so cheaply built and lack good design. I think if they’re going to do something like this the architectural design should have to match the rest of the neighborhood. The neighbors need to get together and have older neighborhoods designated historic and/or have an HOA that can approve or deny these monstrosities.
@@bojacque6474 Yeah, all of the above. However, new money moving in is corrupting to a local government. They like new revenue coming into the community but they are also greedy for their self-interest, and for certain considerations from a rich developer they are known to have lapses in competency and due diligence.
@@celticman1909 I bet. It’s really a shitty situation no matter what. The thing with new money though is it ALWAYS runs out.
Been involved in the building trade for 45 yrs... you apply for waivers to set backs BEFORE you start building... that way this doesn't happen!
The setback is included
on the foundation plan..the general contractor is where it
started..There should be spikes as to where foundation must be located and throughout communication with excavator/ concrete ..Builder is at fault here.. I'm a licensed general contractor..
5 ft FROM WHERE? they didn't do a survey thus they didn't know where the line they needed to measure from was
@@integr8er66 When the lot gets sold, generally, you have a surveyor mark the boundaries. Lender requires.
@@integr8er66 Clearly a big mistake when houses are so close together. Should have been surveyed prior and clearly marked.
@@lynnbetts4332 There might not have been a lender involved. Either way the builder is supposed to mark out the where the foundation goes and someone screwed up. I wonder if they assumed the driveway was the edge of the neighbor's property but there is another foot or so to account for.
1.5' off to the side and the neighbor said it was ok? No easement between houses? Yes, the developer screwed up, but this is such a waste. Have them pay a fee to the neighbor, put it in the deed and move on.
Building inspector should have caught this during the foundation inspection.
What a waste of lumber. I would of rather seen them taking it down by usable sections. With prices and supply issues, this was tragic.
I build dog houses and picnic tables out of reclaimed lumber. Would have taken everything I could get out of that one.
I know right, I would have loved to get some of that scrap wood !
It's "would have", and tearing down a house is a dangerous, costly, and slow process. The contractor is probably on a very short time line by court order.
@@slappy8941
If the home was built over the setbacks as if the home was to wide for the lot, they would have to redesign it anyway so dismantling the home in usable sections would of been ideal.
@@slappy8941 But "wood have" sounds pretty fun when you're talking about lumber.
I had to have my pool house taken down and rebuilt when it was almost finished. It was such an ordeal and an extreme costly mistake.
Unbelievable!!! N almost done as well...Makes you wanna move else where and enjoy your HARD EARNED Money in peace!!!
Out in BFE stuff gets built often without any of these issues. Tax assesser doesn't even know it's built for years sometimes. Lol
This is not the land owners fault. Any SFR being built from the ground up should have been notified at the time of blue print fillings for building permits. City planner, code enforcement should have taken notice before the foundation was built.
The cost of a boundary survey should be included in the bid. Shame on the developer. And shame on the building inspector for not verifying the lot line. I got caught, once, for the same thing. Due to the age of the existing survey (1911), we had to pay for 11 miles of survey, in order to bring the line out to the property.
Having had a house fire and there was 12 feet apart from our neighbors, our fire still burned the neighbors house.
So that space is absolutely necessary. I don’t blame the city for not waving it.
Look what happened to the city of Paradise, California a few years back. Everything was burned. Fire is no respecter of boundaries.
WHY DESTROY IT ???? Fine the guilty party and stop this cycle of Nonsense. And I must ask what's wrong with
DISASSEMBLING ? Salvage what you can with the crazy prices of construction materials foisted on us today.
This is St Louis. We tear down everything.
@@hihosilencemeviolateme949 Yep. Politicians, bureaucrats and other criminals have ruined many of the cities and towns I once knew.
Deconstruction is not known by everyone.
The developer calculated tear down as cheaper than de-construction. I assume the liability of re-using studs factored significantly into the decision.
@@julesjames593 Understandable 👍🏿
the 5' requirement is standard. Another "contractor" thinking he knows it all.
For a foot over a line, the intellect of city government never disappoints me.
My neighbor put in a concrete driveway right up to my fence line. Problem was my fence is 2’ set back from the property line. He didn’t want to pay me for the land, so I filed a complaint with the building department and he had to have the driveway sawed down to within his property(where I live fences/walls have to be 1’ from property line.)
I knew a guy who bought a convenience store from an old man who said he wanted to retire, but he didn't get a non competition clause in the sales contract, so the old man moved across the street and built a much bigger nicer convenience store. He then proceeded to build an apartment building right behind the first store that he had sold, because he still owned the property behind the store, but he thought he would get away with going over the property line, and was forced to by the extra property from the guy he had just screwed for an amount that was roughly equivalent to the purchase price of the store. The only other alternative given by the court would be to move the apartment building or tear it down, both of which would have cost considerably more money than simply buying a few feet of property.
Always have a margin of error.
Or not. LoL
Genuinely sorry for your misfortune. The important part is does the neighbor still speak too you?
@@mikenixon2401 Probably why they had a fence up.
For a fence? If every fence has to be a foot away from the property line then no two properties could share the same fence!
As a surveyor, I was asked to verify a setback for a newly constructed residence. The setback is 5 ft., and the foundation was built 3" from the property line. I believe the owner/builder did this purposely, but claims their surveyor staked 5' offsets. County has no requirement for certification of setback prior to pour. Neighbor is challenging it. Real shit show.
Maybe people should let people do what they want on THEIR property. Communist cities are sooo nasty and grosss
I agree.
@@gopplergoppler8827 5 foot setbacks from the property line are common nationwide and have been for a century.
They provide room to fight fires and protect the neighbor property.
Nothing communist about these zoning codes.
@@gopplergoppler8827 until someone builds 3" from your property line and is looking at you taking a morning dump.
@@gopplergoppler8827 you say that until your neighbor does something that hurts your property value, and you really should go back and study what communism actually entails
Too much government with too much control.
I guess the cost of labor to salvage was more than buying new materials 🤷♂️ !
Builders shouldn’t make these mistakes if they abide by the proper city codes and survey guidelines..Stop trying to cut cost and get the proper surveys done within the city codes… costly mistake here
Some building inspector had to sign off on it somewhere along the way duh
I think it was intentional. He had plans for a ce size house and he intentionally built that house
There was NO survey required. That is where the who mess started.
Even if a subcontractor screwed up the developer is still responsible for this.He needs to grow up and own this.
The law took effect in Dec 2021. The building should have been grandfathered.
Own what
This is BS. Wrong on all levels. Get TF over it. Codes created by Karens
most folks hate contractors more than government tyrants,see what happens if someone try’s taking my house
The builder should know the setback requirements and should check his contractor's work at each phase. The city inspector should have approved the foundation before work began on the house structure. When people don't do what they're paid for, mistakes happen. Heads should roll on this one!
A SETBACK is such a CRITICAL piece of planning. The Contractor should be held accountable. YUCK.
My personal property is next to a house built in a smaller than allowed space, crooked contractors have existed for a long time glad to hear someone fought back.
Once knew a shady guy who did something like this on purpose. He thought he'd get away with it. He didn't. His building could stay if he bought a 4 foot wide by 100 ft long piece of property from it's owner to meet set back code. Thing was it couldn't be subdivided for sale. He had to purchase the entire lot from the owner at whatever price the owner wanted. Too bad, the shady guy knew beforehand he couldn't place the building there. He had requested, on film, a variance, was denied and did it anyway. Love it when the bad guy loses.
Cool story 🙄
How does that even make sense though? The owner can't sell a portion of their own land? Stupid as hell.
So I can build too close to my neighbors and I can just buy their house off them?
@@goober239 Either that or you'll be tearing yours down. Don't be surprised if the neighbor wants more than market value.
In my town you need a AS BUILT survey when the foundation is installed, costly mistake.
its sad that the building department can't be held responsible for this it should have been caught before this had to happen , the general contractor should have known this as well that's what you get when the contractor is not on the job all the time and leave it to someone that should not be in that position . I was a lead carpenter on a few job and my job was to make sure that our subs did things right its the contractor fault . I worked on a school once and found a two inch disciplinary from the hubs and caught it before they poured it it would have made the gym out of square it doesn't sound like much but its better to try and make things perfect because they never are !
GC’S fault. Don’t blame sub-contractor. Own it. BTW, why did city inspectors ok the foundation to begin with???
This is the question that needs answering….immediately. City should pay the entire teardown and rebuild costs.
This is a great reminder that it’s your responsibility to check and confirm YOUR work is right! Inspections are at most to keep builders responsible. I agree in this instance that something could have been done before a total tear down but this does make a statement. Good luck to you builders always being pushed and pulled to finish projects faster and faster. Maybe it’s time to slow things down.
Not human like every thing is meant for a crazy reason with just more untrust building wile they tear down.
Builders can be kept responsible without government regulations.
If the city allows one contractor to slide, then it will continue and pretty soon people would be living on top of each other. It is unfortunate for the home owner, but he has the ultimate responsibility to make sure of all city codes and ordinances are adhered to, if that means hiring his own surveyors.
The city officials should be criminally charged
35 years ago at a former home I was having a 12 X 16 storage barn built. I went to the codes building and spoke with the codes officer. He asked where my pins were for the lot to my home. I showed him. He told me to be sure my barn was 12 feet in from my side line (pin to pin) and 10 feet in from the back line (pin to pin). I measured in 14 feet from the side line (between me and neighbor on my right and 12 feet in from my back neighbor (that was a school about 300 feet away from the back property line. Barn is still there to this day as far as I know. Only takes about an hour and a half to get the rules and get a permit. If I can know to do that 35 years ago certainly folks in the contracting business today know that too. Something shady was going on here.
Tear it down! If you don’t follow code you gotta rip it out or get fined everyday until you do! I would have cried if I was the builder.
When a foundation is excavated, an inspector comes and checks the excavation and steel. After foundation poured, you get the surveyor to come out and do a foundation survey to prove the foundation is in the setbacks. Most banks want to see this before they will allow additional draw money (because of this sort of problem). Concerning the waste, Wood can not really be salvaged. Everything is cut up and many nails plus the wood gets cracked on the ends. All the nails make it to where it does not come apart easily. The whole wood recyclable speech is basically a lie. Either grind it into mulch or to the landfill. Also, close to 20% of new wood is left over in a build and the same problem. If the pipes were copper, they could be salvaged. The plastic plumbing pipe is cheap and has no real recycle value.
As a builder or designer, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS know the local setback requirements, particularly on small lots. As a design/drafter and construction project manager, this is one of the 1st things I do on a drawing I draw the setback lines from the property lines, front, sides and rear. The dwelling footprint and roof overhangs must all fit inside those setback lines. It's simple math. A 50 ft. lot minus two 5 ft. side yard setbacks means the dwelling can't be more than 40 ft. wide. KNOW THE LOCAL ZONING CODES!
As a project manager, I would do the layout.
My guess is that in this situation, the ultimate responsibility was with the general contractor and the local building inspector who, when doing the foundation inspection, should have caught it.
It's outrageous that the zoning board didn't grant a variance for the dwelling being one foot too close to the property line. Maybe they had many other confrontations with this general contractor and had enough.
Attention to detail! My builder had put in the forms for the footers based on the topographical survey which was based on the house plan which had a different basement than what was in my contract. The house plan had a smaller basement with the structure having a 2 foot overhang across the front and back sides. I caught it before they poured the concrete and had them correct it. I would have lost 250 sq. ft. of basement area and had unattractive and useless overhangs. The builder simply handed over blueprints to contractors and wasn't paying attention. Just the first of many possible goof-ups that I encountered. I'm not a builder but I felt like I was running the show many times. Even my wife had to correct the plumber and carpenters several times because they were doing things wrong. The lesson is to not necessarily go with the low bid and the line of BS. He took me to a house that he built and the people talked him up real good - I found out later that it was his sister's house.
Kick Back Not Paid
The neighbors seem like reasonable, good people. The only problem is if the city makes an exception for one developer, the city kind of has to make exceptions for everyone.
One of the reasons for a setback is a fire break. We recently had a house explode (mental health issue) but one house suffered critical damage and the other the entire side that was exposed had its siding damaged, bent, melted and last damaged. They had a five-foot separation on one side and a five-foot separation on the other where the second house is now condemned due to being blown off its foundation.
That is the most ridiculous thing I've heard today. Even in the correct place, you can still touch the neighboring house on either side. All that over a foot?
ALWAYS survey first! Never assume any existing boundary markers are accurate. I've seen one property where they located the buried steel corner markers, then the foundation crew said, this is a 70' wide lot, the home is supposed to be 59' centered but when they started measuring everything out there wasn't enough width for the foundation. They measured the lot markers and they were 67' apart, not 70'. After getting the lot resurveyed by the surveyor that originally laid the neighborhood out with satellite/gps they found that the neighbor to one side had pulled up, and moved the markers over in a sneaky attempt to gain 3 extra foot of yard when he fenced his yard in.
Hiccup, follow the rules, it's the builders responsibility to get survey and boundary established first. No excuse. Irregardless of subcontractors.
Accountability and following the rules seems to be going out of style. Good to hear a story of holding someone accountable...
Why would anyone follow rules when our own government doesn't, and breaks laws on a daily basis, and no one is held accountable
@@RJ-lj3zt How could they do that with all the 'independent journalists' on the job? Maybe those so called journalists need to spend less time inciting the rabble via misinformation and selling bracelets and more time exposing the truth about the government. If the government is obviously breaking the law, why not start a class action suit against them? That's what happens when laws are actually being broken.
@@owenparker6651 and file the class action lawsuits where?
The justice system is as corrupt as the rest of the government.
Where was the supreme court when the elections were stolen?
@@RJ-lj3zt Ahh, you're one of those nutters... nuff said...
@@owenparker6651 so you just said you're a patsy wearing a red coat. Bow to your kings and queens peasant
I built a garage/shop in Seattle about 15yrs ago. my contractor required I have a survey "one side" to protect his company---Our setback is also 5ft, they put the finished foundation 6ft on one side and 9ft on the other-----Mikey
Brilliant! You city council at their best.
My dad had three acres of land and his neighbor had about the same. After having a survey done we discovered his circle driveway crossed over the corner of our property by about 5-6 feet. We offered to sell him the land if he took care of all the legal work. He agreed, but never did anything. A couple years later, we built a fence across his driveway. He doesn't have a circle driveway anymore.
Fair enough. You had full legal right to do so, and probably more.
You had the legal right to that but why did you? Why a fence ?
@@lisab9541 Because he was already encroaching on our property even though he had plenty of land himself. We offered him an even swap of land if he would do the administration. He agreed, but he never did it after several years. We built the fence so that he could not make the argument that we never objected and he could just take the land after some period of use because he had created his own easement. There is a case of a squatter in a home where the owner died. The squatter eventually took full ownership from the rightful heirs of the house because no one objected for years.
While it does sound unneighborly, you had no choice legally.
@@FranktheDachshund yes, we didn't want to have an easement that was established if we never did anything about it for resale proposes. I forgot, we also gave him the option to trade land if he took care of all the legal paperwork and he didn't do that either. Plus it wasn't a paved driveway he had. It was just a mulched circle drive that encroached so then he just had a straight in driveway. We figure it just wasn't that important to him.
they had to have the foundation inspection passed, it should have been caught then.
Seems the neighbor could sell 2 feet of property.
The neighbor probably only had a minimum setback themselves.
My step brother sold a small piece of lamd on the edge of his property. When my stepbrother brought up using an old logging to get a pile of trees he used for cutting firewood. The new owner was un neighborly. A few weeks went by. A crew showed up to mark out the house foundation, driveway,water and gas connection,etc...A few days later we got out the surveying gear and grade pole. They were going to put the foundation to close to the property line. My step brother called the property owner to tell him about this error. The call back was " Mind your own business". As soon as the concrete guys left the town surveyor was called. Someone from permits and planning git a call. The foundation was off by almost 18 feet. Made it to close to the property line. Two choices: Tear out all that concrete ( now considered hazardous waste) or ask for my stepbrothers signature on a variance application. Got easment for his firewood.
I closed real estate for many years. Back in probably 96 a lady had a property where she knew her plans were over by 8 inches I think. She had money. Big house. She also had a neighbor who saw the flags go down when the framing for the foundation was laid. She called me. I told her not to do it. I refused to close any of the title insurance. Almost be willing to Guarantee you, almost, the owner themselves knew and had the contactor do it anyway. In my case, I know she had trouble selling later, but it could easily have had this happen. This was 1.6 inches. The owner just couldn't manage the adjustment and it cost them. Which basically equates to losing a total of maybe 105 square feet on a 4800 Sq.ft house. Unless about 15 people are willing to lie, no insurance company will pay that claim.
This house was 1.6 FEET over the setback, not 1.6 inches!
@@barbrn and?
@@stanleyhape8427 I was correcting your statement.
@@barbrn I meant 1.6 feet. Thanks for the correction.
Where was the building inspector when this project started?. This is negligence on the city's part. They never should have let the project get this far. Sue the city for their incompetence.
No. This is totally the fault of the builder who has the responsibility to build within the proper boundaries. It isn’t for the CIty to show them - just to make sure they are complying.
I agree 100% , city inspector should of stopped the project from the beginning. City could be liable.
Building inspector probably could not read a tape measure neither. lol
Is not building inspector's job to lay foundation in proper setbacks.
@@786otto no, but it IS his job to inspect the footers before they are poured, and that is when the setbacks should be verified.
All they needed was a variance with the neighbors approval. I get it with the fire code, but this type of thing has been done before. Secondly, all of this needed to be recognized by the builder and addressed before construction began. Bottom line is greed.
In a small hick town like mine we have a foundation inspector. Even though 100 years ago a poured footer was a new idea.
About 10 years ago my next door neighbor fenced in her back yard. At the time there was a large tree setting directly on the property line. Rather than set her fence a few inches inside of the lot line and boxing around the tree, she set the entire fence about 2 feet inside her property. We get along with each other and I would not mind if she moved the fence over now since the tree is gone. I do wonder what will happen years from now when our two properties have new owners. Trying to move the fence with new people involved will more than likely cause an argument.
Absolutely!
I worked for an engineering firm and we designed subdivisions among other things. In one of the subdivisions I designed, the front setback was 25'. We designed the houses so they would have a 25.5' setback in case they made a small mistake. Usually after they put the foundations, surveyors come out and do a "wall check" before moving on with the rest of the house. For some reason they poured the foundations for two sticks of townhomes (I think it was 12 homes) and went ahead and did the framing and sheathing. The surveyor came out to verify and the homes were built a foot into the setback (24' from the property line). The county made them tear the homes down and redo them.
When I first found out about the issue my heart sank because I thought I might have designed them wrong. After 3 hours of fractionally checking everything over several times, I was relieved to learn that my design was correct and the mistake was somewhere else in the process. I then told my coworkers and boss and then we all had a good laugh about the mistake.
Glad to hear your heart kept beating long enough to be able to figure out it wasn't your fault!! I have anxiety just thinking about what you must have gone through!
Man. I don't think I would be able to recover from that even if I was convinced that it wasn't my fault..... I can't believe this happens I mean I can but I am in disbelief. What a waste.
Yes, you and your boss would have had a much bigger laugh than the concrete guys! 😂😂🤣🤣
I did two wall checks today. Several of our clients build very tight to the front and sides. We stake out the foundations and the brick points so the Wall checks are always at least a tiny bit nerv racking. I've had several within .03' of the EBL
I’m sure it was a huge relief that you and your company weren’t liable for the huge mistake, but why did you laugh about it? Materials, time, and money was wasted, and someone who made an honest mistake, could be out of a job, or jeopardize livelihoods.
Came across a more serious violation with a project I was working on in CAD. The building didn't fit and was encroaching 4" onto neighboring property. The architect simply grabbed the plan set and drew a fatter property line. "Problem solved" he said.
"No setback survey required by the city ..." No, not the city but by every instance of common sense in the building industry.