Excellent video! What terminator resistors actually do, in short, is eliminate electrical reflections. A wire is like a concrete hallway, and sending a signal down the bare wire is like yelling to someone on the other side of the hallway. There is so much echo and reflection in the hallway that the person on the other side can't understand what you're saying. The same thing happens with 2 devices trying to communicate over a bare wire, there is so much reflection and noise that the signal is essentially lost in the noise. Adding terminator resistors is like adding carpet to the hallway. If you yell to your friend across a carpeted hallway there is no echo and he can understand you just fine, the carpet eats up the reflections. Terminator resistors on the ends of the wire eat up the reflections so the devices can communicate reliably. The value of the resistors are chosen at design time, but in general if the value is too low then the good signal is lost, if the value is too high then the noise isn't filtered properly. This is why you have to remove terminators when you add additional endpoints. With a 120-ohm resistor on each end of the wire you get a total of 60-ohm resistance. If you now add a 3rd 120-ohm resistor you end up with only 40-ohm total resistance, which is too low and too much of the good signal will be lost. You want to filter the noise on the entire wire, end-to-end, which is why you keep the terminators on the ends and remove the terminators in the middle. In reality there is some wiggle room, the values don't have to be precise, but get far enough out and it will be unreliable and then at some point it won't work at all. This is the 10,000 foot view, but hopefully it gives the general idea for anyone who is interested.
What your referring to, is it similar to wiring inducing a signal into another wire. Theres a term for it but i cant think of it at the moment. In the automotive industry we twist the bus wires to reduce "noise" from other electrical devices. We do use terminating resistors too. Usually they are in dominant nodes but we started putting them in bus bars which tend to make my life very easy when diagnosing a bus problem.
@@brody5563 Yes, the paired wires inside Cat6 are twisted and shielded. However, "noise", typically FM frequencies "leak" out through other cables (including power) and wreck havoc with HD video. Opto-isolators convert the electric signal into a light signal and back to an electrical signal (RS 232, 422).
@@brody5563 No, you're referring to EMI noise (electromagnetic interference), which is different. When a current flows in a wire, it creates a magnetic field. When a magnetic field changes near a wire, it creates current. So when you have electrical noise in one wire it creates a changing magnetic field, and that changing magnetic field can create noise in wires nearby. If you use two wires to carry equal but opposite signals, this is called differential signaling, which can help in 2 ways. If you twist the wires together, because their electromagnetic fields are opposite, they cancel each other out, reducing their effect on other nearby wires. And second with differential signals, the receiving end only cares about the difference between the two wires, which makes the whole thing less sensitive to noise. For example if you get a big electromagnetic field near both wires (noise), it will affect them both in a similar way, i.e. you'll get the same noise on both wires. Because the receiver only cares about the DIFFERENCE between the two, it because the noise part of the signal is the SAME on both, the receiver can easily filter out the noise. If you want to understand it better than I can explain it, google differential signaling, twisted pair, EMI and EMF. And right-hand-rule, that will give you a better idea of the relationship between current and EMF (electromagnetic fields).
WOW AND WOW Sorry guys new technology I do think it's cool but nothing like OLDSCHOOL 2X STROKES. A lot less to go wrong but this is the new world and your knowledge and schooling has a price tag and I'm sure your well paid and you should be. You have a talent and a gift. AWESOME VIDEO GUYS THANK YOU
I randomly get the Helm 1 CCM Lever1 error and cannot control rpm or shift, but the joystick still works. Where do I start to diagnose this situation. I love your channel.
@@BornAgainBoating That is very true! So many different systems to go over. Hard to learn it all when you work on Boats for 3/4 of a year and Snowmobiles, ATV's etc for the other quarter. Lol What camera do you mainly use for these videos? the 7? I bought a nice canon g7X that had amazing reviews but have not been the happiest with it and like the GoPro footage. Also do you use Final cut pro for editing? Josh
@@Schneids15 Hey Josh! Yeah, it's hard to kind of niche down when you have to deal with the seasons like that! But your doing great and your stuff is super helpful, which is the most important. As for the camera's right now I am using a GoPro 6 and 7. I had a 5 but I lost that when my drone sank with it on it in about 60 feet of water :(! I have thought about buying a normal camera like everybody else, but then after thinking about it, for what I'm doing, the GoPro is really the best. They are kind of expensive, but for what you get, you can shoot 4K and get great shots. The close-ups are terrible though, it doesn't focus that well. Then you also have the microphone issue. Which is a big hold back because the video isn't as personal when you voice over everything. Being in the marina with the forklift running all day. I can't use a microphone anyway because you can't hear over the forklift :/ so it's a catch 22 Then I use Adobe Creative Cloud and After Effects to do the editing. Which has been a huge learning curve all on it's own! I really need a new computer because doing everything in 4K, which I still don't know why I do that lol but it takes forever to edit!
@@BornAgainBoating Thanks man! yeah my garage is terrible to film in because of my LED shop lights are super bright and it is hard to get any camera to focus when they are beaming down. As far as the 4K i had that issue with my old camera and as i read more and more it is like 5 percent or less people have computers with displays that actually display 4K. Also remember that the majority of people including me live in remote areas with slow internet and are lucky to load 1080P without pausing. That is why i stopped filming in it because of editing issues and the fact the majority of people could not even see it in that quality. The mic issue is huge too because i love to talk while i am doing the videos. Anyways your editing is awesome. I am going to do some more marine summer-ization videos this spring when we warm up. Will be cool for you to watch because you are lucky and don't have to pull plugs every year and drain everything down to prevent freezing in your nice warm climate! I am Jealous. lucky you! Anyways thanks again and good talking to you, are you anywhere near West Palm beach? I have some family there.
I do building automation work using sophisticated computer networks and it blows me away how similar this technology is. On our RS-485 networks we use 120 ohm terminating resistors as well. Just curious but do you know what protocol these systems use?
That's awesome! No, sorry, I have no clue what the protocol is. I can take the entire thing out and put it back in and scan the system with a meter but I've got no clue about the protocol lol
Years of testing :) Mercury uses the same set up for all of their digital systems. So it's just become natural to test the system that way! Thank you for commenting!
Very interesting, I see many similarities between these controls and the systems I serviced for years in the commercial refrigeration field. Inputs controlling outputs. We daisy chain communication from the controller to each input and output board, each with its own address and only terminate at the last board. I just don't like the terminology of termination at the controller, terminate means to end, as in nothing to look for past this point. I think the com lines at the controller should simply be can 1 and can 2... That said you will never see me pay 30 grand for an outboard much less 120 or more for 4... The EPA ruined the boat industry same as they ruined the HVAC & R industry .
It is amazing how many similarities there are between different industries! They actually used to call them Can 1 and 2 until they came out with Joystick Piloting and then had to add a 3rd can network for that. That's when they changed over to the P and X and all of that. Lol idk if I would spend 30 grand on an outboard either, even if I had the money lol but you never know!
I have rxdoc1_soh and rxdoc3_soh according to my dealer. He said corrosion in my connectors. I have 60 ohms at pcm bottom harness pins 11 and 21, and at 31 and 32. Both busses seem to be fine. I couldnt find any corrosion in anything along the 14 pin harness, or in pcm connectors, or in terminator resistors. The tach says check engine. Speedo says nothing until you unplug the tach. Then it says engine comm lost. Gauges are sc1000 I think. Single engine, single helm. Any help would be greatly appreciated. My aunt gave me this boat after my uncle died.
Hello, What kind of lower unit are you trying to disassemble? Here is a video that goes into taking out the bearing carrier for a Verado: ruclips.net/video/YtivxsdwEqY/видео.html
When you add a 2nd or 3rd engine, do you extend the network to those engines on CAN H or CAN P? Does it matter which one you pick? Also what about if it's a joystick set-up with CAN X?
The can networks are all included when you add an engine and the same layout is used to add engines as described in the video :) you don't really get to pick a network to use ;) can h is more for joystick applications, and can x is for each individual engine.
Question: With a CAN communication fault, can a bad terminator resistor cause the ignition not start the engine and the trim switch on the trottle control inoperable and the smartcraft gauges to read "no tacho"? All these issues started at once. Pulled codes and got CAN communication faults only. Thanks
Sounds like something has failed, either the PCM or CCM or something on the network. Yes a bad terminator can do things like that, but you'll need to troubleshoot the network and each component. Did you try to reconfigure the boat?
It doesnt really troubleshoot itself, but it does show what components are not functioning properly and then you can go to that component and test back from it. Usually it's the component that has the code. Which makes it more remove and replace a lot if times
No, with everything plugged in normally you see 60 ohms. You can't really check the system for voltages, as long as the clean power has 12VDC going into the system, it the computers will communicate with each other. The line is more for communication. Two wire buses for both lines, thank you for commenting :)
Hopefully a short in that clean power harness. Is your clean power going from the battery there to the engine or does it go to the Junction box in the helm?
@@OfficerDave78 alright, there is only going to be one for the dts clean power. Either to the engine or the jbox. The helm should have these things depending on your set up: CCM harness with the other computer, tachometer, speedometer, and then that clean power which only has a red and black wire. If it has like a red , white, blue, and black. That's for the gauges. The thing is you gotta find what's shorted. So the computers being the one on the engine and the ccm in the helm. Those have that 12v clean power sitting there. When you turn the key on, it opens up the circuits in those computers to let that power flow through the system. So when you turn that key switch the power flows and hits a short somewhere, popping the clean power fuse. Depending on how you feel about it. You can make a clean power harness yourself with a 5 amp fuse and hook that up to the engine, hopefully it's already at the engine. Then you can disconnect the 14 pin main harness on the engine, take a small wire and look at the plug, there will be two wires in the middle with the letters a and c. You can jump those with the little wire and see if it pops the fuse. If it doesnt, hook up the 14 pin again and go to the helm and repeat that process. Trying to isolate where the issue is :)
Why couldn’t it be something simple. My junction box has 5 things. Tachometer, speedometer, active trim, vesselview Mobil and one more thing. I will look and see what that is. I do believe clean power is going to engine. I will disconnect from engine and jump it and see. That is isolating out the engine when I do that ? When I do that jump test turn the key after or will I not need ?
Excellent video! What terminator resistors actually do, in short, is eliminate electrical reflections. A wire is like a concrete hallway, and sending a signal down the bare wire is like yelling to someone on the other side of the hallway. There is so much echo and reflection in the hallway that the person on the other side can't understand what you're saying. The same thing happens with 2 devices trying to communicate over a bare wire, there is so much reflection and noise that the signal is essentially lost in the noise. Adding terminator resistors is like adding carpet to the hallway. If you yell to your friend across a carpeted hallway there is no echo and he can understand you just fine, the carpet eats up the reflections. Terminator resistors on the ends of the wire eat up the reflections so the devices can communicate reliably. The value of the resistors are chosen at design time, but in general if the value is too low then the good signal is lost, if the value is too high then the noise isn't filtered properly. This is why you have to remove terminators when you add additional endpoints. With a 120-ohm resistor on each end of the wire you get a total of 60-ohm resistance. If you now add a 3rd 120-ohm resistor you end up with only 40-ohm total resistance, which is too low and too much of the good signal will be lost. You want to filter the noise on the entire wire, end-to-end, which is why you keep the terminators on the ends and remove the terminators in the middle. In reality there is some wiggle room, the values don't have to be precise, but get far enough out and it will be unreliable and then at some point it won't work at all. This is the 10,000 foot view, but hopefully it gives the general idea for anyone who is interested.
Nice, interesting! Good explanation. I've set up comms/video at 1000ft or less and used opto-isolators.
What your referring to, is it similar to wiring inducing a signal into another wire. Theres a term for it but i cant think of it at the moment. In the automotive industry we twist the bus wires to reduce "noise" from other electrical devices. We do use terminating resistors too. Usually they are in dominant nodes but we started putting them in bus bars which tend to make my life very easy when diagnosing a bus problem.
@@brody5563 Yes, the paired wires inside Cat6 are twisted and shielded. However, "noise", typically FM frequencies "leak" out through other cables (including power) and wreck havoc with HD video. Opto-isolators convert the electric signal into a light signal and back to an electrical signal (RS 232, 422).
@@brody5563 No, you're referring to EMI noise (electromagnetic interference), which is different. When a current flows in a wire, it creates a magnetic field. When a magnetic field changes near a wire, it creates current. So when you have electrical noise in one wire it creates a changing magnetic field, and that changing magnetic field can create noise in wires nearby. If you use two wires to carry equal but opposite signals, this is called differential signaling, which can help in 2 ways. If you twist the wires together, because their electromagnetic fields are opposite, they cancel each other out, reducing their effect on other nearby wires. And second with differential signals, the receiving end only cares about the difference between the two wires, which makes the whole thing less sensitive to noise. For example if you get a big electromagnetic field near both wires (noise), it will affect them both in a similar way, i.e. you'll get the same noise on both wires. Because the receiver only cares about the DIFFERENCE between the two, it because the noise part of the signal is the SAME on both, the receiver can easily filter out the noise. If you want to understand it better than I can explain it, google differential signaling, twisted pair, EMI and EMF. And right-hand-rule, that will give you a better idea of the relationship between current and EMF (electromagnetic fields).
Great video .Glad to see the trouble shooting and not just replacing every part to try and get it working.
WOW AND WOW Sorry guys new technology I do think it's cool but nothing like OLDSCHOOL 2X STROKES. A lot less to go wrong but this is the new world and your knowledge and schooling has a price tag and I'm sure your well paid and you should be. You have a talent and a gift. AWESOME VIDEO GUYS THANK YOU
This was definitely a task! Thank you and thank you!
Very impressive thorough work, you guys have a great channel!
In 5 years you’ll be making videos titled “troubleshooting this 100’ sea-vee with 20 Mercury 700R’s outboards on it”
So true!! Lol
Hahhaha that's too funny! Cigarette and Hydrasports had boats with 6 engines at the boat show this year!
So were halfway there lol
Born Again Boating were not as advanced as those Thailand ferries that have like 8-10 suzukis on the back of them
@@WhiteGangster400 ha, that's true. I've seen those. The there are the clickbait pictures with like 15 of them on the back!
Thanks, this part for some reason intimidates me, doesn't seem to bother you at all. All in knowing what your doing. Great video.
You're welcome :) Yes, lol I guess you just get used to tearing them apart and getting it done! Thank you for commenting :)
Impressive. Excellent t-shooting. Love this channel.
The best boat channel
Thank you!
I randomly get the Helm 1 CCM Lever1 error and cannot control rpm or shift, but the joystick still works. Where do I start to diagnose this situation. I love your channel.
I was thinking that it was to many speakers causing the problem ;-)
Great videos man. I am glad i don't work on Quad systems like that man is there ever a lot of stuff. All in learning.
Ha, you would be fine. You'd get it figured out quickly once you get used to it! With what you know, once you learn the systems, they are a breeze!
@@BornAgainBoating That is very true! So many different systems to go over. Hard to learn it all when you work on Boats for 3/4 of a year and Snowmobiles, ATV's etc for the other quarter. Lol What camera do you mainly use for these videos? the 7? I bought a nice canon g7X that had amazing reviews but have not been the happiest with it and like the GoPro footage. Also do you use Final cut pro for editing? Josh
@@Schneids15 Hey Josh! Yeah, it's hard to kind of niche down when you have to deal with the seasons like that! But your doing great and your stuff is super helpful, which is the most important.
As for the camera's right now I am using a GoPro 6 and 7. I had a 5 but I lost that when my drone sank with it on it in about 60 feet of water :(! I have thought about buying a normal camera like everybody else, but then after thinking about it, for what I'm doing, the GoPro is really the best.
They are kind of expensive, but for what you get, you can shoot 4K and get great shots. The close-ups are terrible though, it doesn't focus that well. Then you also have the microphone issue. Which is a big hold back because the video isn't as personal when you voice over everything. Being in the marina with the forklift running all day. I can't use a microphone anyway because you can't hear over the forklift :/ so it's a catch 22
Then I use Adobe Creative Cloud and After Effects to do the editing. Which has been a huge learning curve all on it's own! I really need a new computer because doing everything in 4K, which I still don't know why I do that lol but it takes forever to edit!
@@BornAgainBoating Thanks man! yeah my garage is terrible to film in because of my LED shop lights are super bright and it is hard to get any camera to focus when they are beaming down. As far as the 4K i had that issue with my old camera and as i read more and more it is like 5 percent or less people have computers with displays that actually display 4K. Also remember that the majority of people including me live in remote areas with slow internet and are lucky to load 1080P without pausing. That is why i stopped filming in it because of editing issues and the fact the majority of people could not even see it in that quality. The mic issue is huge too because i love to talk while i am doing the videos. Anyways your editing is awesome. I am going to do some more marine summer-ization videos this spring when we warm up. Will be cool for you to watch because you are lucky and don't have to pull plugs every year and drain everything down to prevent freezing in your nice warm climate! I am Jealous. lucky you!
Anyways thanks again and good talking to you, are you anywhere near West Palm beach? I have some family there.
How to remove lower unit for gear box repair video uploading sir, it's very helpful.
You’re good at what you do.
Great! I learned a lot from your channel. Thanks for sharing.
For sure! I'm glad we were able to help you out :) ! Did you ever get your yamaha to start?
Betting the test drive best part 😁
Hahah, yes, those 39 Sea Vee's are hard to beat. Test drove that in 4 footers like it's nothing!
Smarter than the average bear👍
"Hope you learned something from this video"
Ha!
Learned you are alot smarter than me!
Enjoyed the video...
I'll stick with my Yamaha f115!
Sir one more video uploaded for lower unit , which kind of inspection to gear box checking.
Thanks very much sir, keep uploading troubleshooting error video's ,
For code alarm sound.
Ok your welcome, thanks for commenting!
I'll see what I can do. Basically these are the jobs that I do throughout the week!
That is some serious boats & engines. I would not be able to run one here with our fuel prices
Hahah yes it is, you and me both! At wide open that thing drinks about 140 GPH! Pretty ridiculous, but that's also going 65 MPH too :)
I am watching the video on the same dell rugged computer in the video , i dont see many of these lap tops
Which parts replaces to gear box must one remove all parts, never using again.
Fantastic video. Thank you.
I do building automation work using sophisticated computer networks and it blows me away how similar this technology is. On our RS-485 networks we use 120 ohm terminating resistors as well. Just curious but do you know what protocol these systems use?
That's awesome! No, sorry, I have no clue what the protocol is. I can take the entire thing out and put it back in and scan the system with a meter but I've got no clue about the protocol lol
Please explain ideal exhaust and it's troubleshooting
I'm not sure what you mean ideal exhaust?
hi guys, how you know where to put the tester for the ohm values? thanks!
Years of testing :) Mercury uses the same set up for all of their digital systems. So it's just become natural to test the system that way! Thank you for commenting!
Great video....
Thank you!
Very interesting, I see many similarities between these controls and the systems I serviced for years in the commercial refrigeration field.
Inputs controlling outputs. We daisy chain communication from the controller to each input and output board, each with its own address
and only terminate at the last board. I just don't like the terminology of termination at the controller, terminate means to end, as in nothing
to look for past this point. I think the com lines at the controller should simply be can 1 and can 2...
That said you will never see me pay 30 grand for an outboard much less 120 or more for 4...
The EPA ruined the boat industry same as they ruined the HVAC & R industry .
It is amazing how many similarities there are between different industries! They actually used to call them Can 1 and 2 until they came out with Joystick Piloting and then had to add a 3rd can network for that. That's when they changed over to the P and X and all of that. Lol idk if I would spend 30 grand on an outboard either, even if I had the money lol but you never know!
I have rxdoc1_soh and rxdoc3_soh according to my dealer. He said corrosion in my connectors. I have 60 ohms at pcm bottom harness pins 11 and 21, and at 31 and 32. Both busses seem to be fine. I couldnt find any corrosion in anything along the 14 pin harness, or in pcm connectors, or in terminator resistors. The tach says check engine. Speedo says nothing until you unplug the tach. Then it says engine comm lost. Gauges are sc1000 I think. Single engine, single helm. Any help would be greatly appreciated. My aunt gave me this boat after my uncle died.
Any way to figure out where the problem is without jumping through a million hoops?
You always see the cowlings off on these things
Can you suggest to telling and teaching for how to remove gear box,and which kind of tool's using suggest tell me sir.
Hello, What kind of lower unit are you trying to disassemble?
Here is a video that goes into taking out the bearing carrier for a Verado: ruclips.net/video/YtivxsdwEqY/видео.html
Mercury lower unit gear I saw your channel but not briefly,can you explain fully.
There are plenty of videos on youtube to show how it's done.
first, great channel! What mobile code reader/scan tool app do you use? thanks
It's Mercury CDS G3, but it's an OEM dealer tool :/
@@BornAgainBoating
keep the Diag vids coming!
When you add a 2nd or 3rd engine, do you extend the network to those engines on CAN H or CAN P? Does it matter which one you pick? Also what about if it's a joystick set-up with CAN X?
The can networks are all included when you add an engine and the same layout is used to add engines as described in the video :) you don't really get to pick a network to use ;) can h is more for joystick applications, and can x is for each individual engine.
@@BornAgainBoating Thanks for the reply. I've never rigged a Verado before so I'm curious to learn.
@@BornAgainBoating And sorry for the confusion. I thought CAN X was for joystick applications. My bad!
Question: With a CAN communication fault, can a bad terminator resistor cause the ignition not start the engine and the trim switch on the trottle control inoperable and the smartcraft gauges to read "no tacho"? All these issues started at once. Pulled codes and got CAN communication faults only. Thanks
Sounds like something has failed, either the PCM or CCM or something on the network. Yes a bad terminator can do things like that, but you'll need to troubleshoot the network and each component. Did you try to reconfigure the boat?
Keep it up captain
Will do! Thank you:)
How much of that system will troubleshoot itself?
Will it send a code to help pin point a starting area or fault a component?
It doesnt really troubleshoot itself, but it does show what components are not functioning properly and then you can go to that component and test back from it. Usually it's the component that has the code. Which makes it more remove and replace a lot if times
Terminating resistor. So both nodes being good youd see 30ohms? What are the voltages and are they single wire busses?
No, with everything plugged in normally you see 60 ohms. You can't really check the system for voltages, as long as the clean power has 12VDC going into the system, it the computers will communicate with each other. The line is more for communication. Two wire buses for both lines, thank you for commenting :)
The 400 on the motor is that the model or horsepower number?
That's the horsepower!
Wow 1600 horsepower hard to believe.
@@davidd8435 yeah, it's a little out of control lol
They are also about $35K for EACH engine!
@@VaporheadATC Ohhhhh I was thinking they were just over $30K ;)
I keep blowing the 5 amp dts fuse ever time I turn the key. What would cause that? It first happened while I was underway and boat died
Hopefully a short in that clean power harness. Is your clean power going from the battery there to the engine or does it go to the Junction box in the helm?
I believe it goes to engine but there is also a plug into junction box for the dts
@@OfficerDave78 alright, there is only going to be one for the dts clean power. Either to the engine or the jbox. The helm should have these things depending on your set up: CCM harness with the other computer, tachometer, speedometer, and then that clean power which only has a red and black wire. If it has like a red , white, blue, and black. That's for the gauges. The thing is you gotta find what's shorted. So the computers being the one on the engine and the ccm in the helm. Those have that 12v clean power sitting there. When you turn the key on, it opens up the circuits in those computers to let that power flow through the system. So when you turn that key switch the power flows and hits a short somewhere, popping the clean power fuse. Depending on how you feel about it. You can make a clean power harness yourself with a 5 amp fuse and hook that up to the engine, hopefully it's already at the engine. Then you can disconnect the 14 pin main harness on the engine, take a small wire and look at the plug, there will be two wires in the middle with the letters a and c. You can jump those with the little wire and see if it pops the fuse. If it doesnt, hook up the 14 pin again and go to the helm and repeat that process. Trying to isolate where the issue is :)
Why couldn’t it be something simple. My junction box has 5 things. Tachometer, speedometer, active trim, vesselview Mobil and one more thing. I will look and see what that is. I do believe clean power is going to engine. I will disconnect from engine and jump it and see. That is isolating out the engine when I do that ? When I do that jump test turn the key after or will I not need ?
When it happened I was underway my gauges froze in time 25 mph at 3500 rpm
I’m to dumb to do this myself
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