Avocados Aren't Vegan Now?
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- BBC game show host Sandy Toksvig claims that avocado toast isn't vegan because bees. My response.
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/ micthevegan
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Articles Mentioned:
www.washington...
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Almond Bee Articles:
abcnews.go.com...
www.npr.org/20...
almondsarenotve...
Australian Bee Site:
beeaware.org.au...
My Veganic Farming Video: • What is Veganic Farmin...
Palm Oil Issues:
thecircular.org...
greenpalm.org/...
Sedução Momentânea by Roulet:
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As long as avocados didn't scream when turned into guacamole it's vegan
Comment of the year 😂😂😂
Although vegetarians might say the same for milk being turned into cheese
Avocadooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooowwwww
@@aviqua1 The issue is that there is no way to not get milk without exploiting cows, and putting them on machines, plus the dairy industry is linked in with the meat one. There could be a farm somewhere in which cows mate naturally and make so much milk that their is some to spare. But realistically the land needed to got a small amount of milk, would mean that there would have to be a lot of cows on land mating naturally and the baby not harmed if male. They simply wouldn't get enough milk to meet demand. And to be honest animals are not vending machines for humans to use. So even if you look at chickens and say they're not really harmed, well actually if a chicken gets an implant and doesn't lay eggs it's better for the chickens health, as chickens have been breed so much they now lay so many eggs it's a physical strain on their bodies. In the wild chickens only laid 12 to 20 eggs a year. So because humans messed with these animals to gain a product they caused animals to have health problems. Which is the whole problem with using animals to gain a profit, in the end animals usually end up getting exploited to gain money, and their health isn't put first. So to me the best solution is to simply not allow animals to be exploited for human gain. People should look out for animals and give them the best life they can, not think about what they gain, but think what is fair for animals. Otherwise will just end up back where we are now long term. So it's best to simply not view animals as vending machines, and to do what is in their best interest or leave them alone.
Not true. It's not just about the food being farmed, it's also about how the food is farmed.
Gotta love cow stabbers pretending to care about insects
Being squeamish about animals while being perfectly OK with exploiting and killing plants. Well, if it's morally sound to eat a cabbage ALIVE based on "it does not even know" same goes for raping a comatose chick...
@kouzou8 so?
@@demoncore5342 If it's morally sound to kill bacteria that make us ill, then the same goes for raping comatose women.
@Soy Bean That's not really a good analogy, and is not really logically sound. You could say "If it's morally sound to kill bacteria that make us ill, then the same goes for killing people that annoy us." =)
@@demoncore5342 That's why it was ironic. I hope you were too in your cabbage analogy.
Nothing is 100% vegan because insects and animals interact with our food so much. As vegans, our goal should be kindness to animals, reduction of suffering, and conservation. All of these hair splitting semantics are just poorly designed attempts to make vegans lose hope for our message. Don't surrender now, my friends. We're winning.
Yeah, but they're not just "interacting." Avocado farms purposely have to farm bees and tens of thousands of them to make an avocado farm work. Also, those same avocado fields are producing honey, so how can vegans be against the honey, but not against the avocado, when they're both being made at the same time? The whole avocado argument is more a criticism of honey and its prohibition under veganism, than the entirety of veganism.
Karlton est because of the likelihood that after the bees pollinate the crops they take the honey. By not buying the honey we decrease the amount of that taking place in crop industries. The main thing is the bees feeling pain. Yes, you will do harm at some point unfortunately but for now the focus is on the biggest industries that includes honey, palm, meats, fish, eggs, and dairy. Some people may not eat avocados and even avoid avocados if they can but the point is to hit the industries easiest to hit, I believe. Good news I heard Walmart is investing to creating robot bees. Hope it happens.
@@cartonet8186 As Alexis says, if people stop buying honey the market for honey will dry up and bee keepers will have little or no incentive to take the bee's food. Same principle as not eating dairy or eggs.
@@martharowen6801 Yeah, but you need to make a bee farm for growing the avocados. And all of that excess bee produce excess honey so you might as well take the honey. Also, vegetables and fruits are also reliant on animal dung to provide nutriment in fertilizer. So, you could argue that veganism will always require having cows in large numbers as well, because you need the cow's m anure to make the plant and soil replenish. It's all interconntected. You can't just have a plant field all by itself. That means there will always be animals dying for the plant.
@@cartonet8186 Where to begin....
👎"all of that excess bee produce excess honey so you might as well take the honey": Exactly who decides what amount of honey is "excess"? I presume the bees don't think so. We (or the beekeeper) knows better than Mother Nature and the bees themselves? And even if they do in fact make more than absolutely necessary (a claim in need of proof which hasn't been offered, and if true undoubtedly is nature's and the bees' way of protecting against unforeseen circumstances), does that give humans the right to take it? Actually, I think my neighbor makes more money than required to fill his minimum needs, so I might as well take some because I want to buy that really nice dress.
👎"vegetables and fruits are also reliant on animal dung to provide nutriment in fertilizer. So, you could argue that veganism will always require having cows in large numbers" Wrong! Please watch Mic's video on veganic farming. Animal dung is not necessary. Veganic farming is practical and already exists in successful, large scale farms and is not only vegan and organic, but environmentally friendly. I actually buy a delicious brand of bread that is made from veganically farmed ingredients.
Sandy Toksvig: "Vegans aren't 100% perfect 100% of the time, so I don't even have to TRY to live ethically."
Yeah, we can't avoid sometimes hurting people's feelings, so we might as well just insult and humiliate them on a regular basis, even rob, rape and kill whenever we want. After all, it's impossible to be a perfect human being. #AppealtoFutilityFallacy
Define "ethically"
Living ethically: Living in a way that strives to avoid causing unnecessary harm or suffering to other sentient beings, both in the immediate present and in the future.
We might as well eat human meat. After all, it's impossible to sustain the civilization on which we depend without accidental human deaths and injuries. Isn't that the same type of reasoning they are using? We shouldn't try to minimize death and injury if avoiding 100% of it is impossible.
@@TheFettuck
Go for it. I won't try to stop you.
It's like telling someone their phone case was made in a Chinese labor camp, so we might as well all eat babies every day.
LOL
Jules Juerez wow, amazing logic
I have a solution just eat honey and avocado they're not different anyway.
Exactly!
@@blackmarlin3166 nope the best way to boycott that industry is to stop funding the industry the supplies the bees
Do LESS harm... That's the point of veganism. Not to be perfect.
Johnny Hoffman 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Exactly!
That's called reducetarianism.
@@joshyg4260 Not really. They share similarities but they're not the same
@@lottabee You don't understand reducetarianism. This is the literal meaning of reducetarianism.
If they invested half of the energy that they use to argue and fight with the vegans in doing something constructive and causing less harm to the planet, we'd be a happy society. 😝
I find that more people are quite defensive, more so than before. Or maybe I need to hang out at other places =)
I hate that emoji at the end
@@msflyingfree7 they are more than ever and that is everyone. People can now clump to their own a lot easier thanks to the internet.
@@jonathandpg6115 Yes it makes for some annoying conversations. I get it with overworked hospital staff where I find myself saying things like, 'Ok let me see if I get this right, my loved one is being treated like total crap because you are understaffed and exhausted, well how about you skip this room, take a breather and ask yourself if you would like to have your loved one be treated the same way?!' o.o
I hope one day folks will be forced to learn and apply basic critical thinking functions.
'Less harm' means you admit that animal exploitation is inescapable the only way your veganism will be at full control is when we and animals live on separate planets.
Haha it’s cute that they have to try so hard to find flaws in veganism. It’s sad cause they obviously don’t understand it and have to relieve their cognitive dissonance so these mental gymnastics come into play. Just change your behavior!! Who doesn’t want to move fwd and be a better person :)
Conservatives, mostly. People that are afraid of new things, secondly. I think they feel the heat because veganism becomes more and more popular with the young folks.
I thought I was the only vegan falco main. I'm also a conservative though...
Cudgeon I just don’t understand that mentality. Seems very short minded and counter intuitive. Maybe I’m crazy but I believe we should all strive to improve ourselves, aka be the change you wish to see.
Plantbased Power vegan falco mains unite!! Haha
No doubt, ah the irony.
"Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is POSSIBLE and PRACTICABLE, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose."
I feel zero guilt eating avocado.
Then you are supporting slave labor.
Lol. K.
Damn straight! They are NOT taking the avacodos from us!!👺
I mean technically it is possible and practicable to not eat avocados. They’re not necessary
Carrying honey bees back and forth to pollinate crops is clearly a form of "exploitation", and it's a form POSSIBLE and PRACTICABLE to exclude. Arguing otherwise is sign of cognitive dissonance.
Thanks for posting that nugget of false info from the UK. Its truly preposterous how silly people are about veganism. An addition to your eloquent response which could have been directed at her ageist pompous comment could have been that not all vegans are millennials, there are baby boomers like myself who are WFPB vegans. Just because people are born into an age group doesn't mean that they are all the same.
True, not all vegans are millenials. Dr Ellsworth Wareham, 60 year heart surgeon, 60 year vegan and celebrated his 104th birthday last month.
Of course not all vegans are millennials. I'm 75. I would like to add that I really like the millennial generation. I find them awesome in so many ways--politically, ethically (more and more going vegan) and just plain fun to be around.
@@martharowen6801 Millenials, evolution in action.
47 year old vegan here.
Exactly, but as an older vegan I am devastated that more people in my circle still don't get it, and at the same time, I actually believe that the millennial and all future generations will destroy animal agriculture for good.
Well, people die while engaged in agricultural work and food transportation. I guess that makes everyone a cannibal.
No, it makes you a murderer idiot.
@@lachlanoneil8938
?? Use English to clarify.
@@HopyHop1 because you don't eat human you cannot be a cannibal
@@lachlanoneil8938
Well, some carnists claim that relying upon a production process where non-human animals are accidentally killed is no different than intentionally eating animals. If this is true, then the op is also true.
@@HopyHop1 that's not what I believe or what you believe.
I'm so much happier not to watch any mainstream TV, you can avoid listening to so much sh*t
The word is SHITE! DON'T BE AFRAID OF WORDS, RICARDO....
@@leeandbeahinton I havn't watched tv in 6 months, it's great!!
Wow you guys must be amazing humans! Not watching tv?! But spend hours on your iPhones watching videos and Tik Tok shows. iPhones that by the way are similar to the electric car batteries, are harvest from the earth by gun point in third world countries. But heck at least you feel better about yourself for eating grass and not watching tv.
just up here munching on chips and guac on my vegan high horse 🐴
Does it feel good being wrong?
So vegans are allowed to knowingly kill insects?
@@tallwaters9708 Vegans are allowed to try their best. Eating any food kills insects.
Likewise!
That deserves a #High5
That "bad news for millenials" bit was really irritating too. Yeah, like every vegan would be a millenial. That too were made in the sense of "naive, spoiled millenials, who don't know a thing".
That urked me too, blanket presumptive BS.
It would have made more sense and had been funnier if she said, "soy boys" instead of millennial's.
That's a good point. As I've said in another comment strand, the whole thing is designed to appeal to people who prefer to deal in stereotypes rather than face the consequences of their choices.
@Enyan Art Studio ruclips.net/video/3nOkAPdEpLI/видео.html
butthurt millennial detected!
If it’s a PLANT, it’s vegan for me. Enough said. Cultivation can be improved, though.
Although I agree with what you're saying we need to be careful with being logically consistent. Like Mic said, palm oil isn't vegan due to its effects but it still comes from a plant.
Palm oil is vegan even when it results if fucking orangutan rape??? Ok. Palm oil isn't an animal product so I guess it's vegan lmfao
Rube I agree. The cultivation is horrible. I wouldn’t buy or support it. It’s still a plant-based product, however. So I guess the correct way to say it is that palm oil is plant-based but not Vegan, if from those farms.
The PLANT has feelings
I’ve never rolled my eyes so hard before 🤣 People will say anything to justify eating and abusing animals 🤦🏻♀️
You don't seem to understand that you also abuse animals when you continue eating the mentioned crops.
@@TheFettuck It takes 10 llbs of plants to make 1 llb of meat.
Byron Murphy - How does this fact safe the bees from getting killed?
Just eating, I don't know a single meat eater that has abused an animal
@@jfk3465 They are paying for the abuse, they don't do it themselves, but it's still supply and demand.
Lets ignore the vast amount of plants polinated by bees that ends up feeding livestock, very ineffecient. Lets ignore how many bees the meat industry kills. Lets ignore the single biggest problem on earth, and lets talk about avocados and nuts while we eat said problem.
*EDIT: The vast majority of food for livestock is not polinated, however the farmers use inseticde, pesticide and fungicide on livestock feed which gets carried to plants that the bees do polinate and come in contact with. There is a correlation, but my original statement is not accurate.
@Don't Eat Animals You are right, they are not polinated. But the insecti- and fungicides spread to nearby flowers and other plants that are polinated and the bees gets killed off in mass by that. You are right in that I stated the problem in an unproper way, but there is a correlation nontheless.
@Don't Eat Animals A significant amount of pesticides are still sprayed on these crops resulting in massive numbers of insects being killed. So maybe it is not bees specifically, but still insects in large numbers are killed growing any monocrop. Thus it will always be less harmful to eat wind and self pollinating plant foods directly rather than the horribly inefficient process of first feeding the plants to animals which convert only 5%-10% of their feed to edible flesh.
Could also argue in favor of plant based diets useing this little statistic I came up with.
You can feed more people with 2 achers and 3 years with basically any crop.
Then you could with a single cow
So let's just ignore the almond industry in the USA killing billions of bees each year then should we? As a concerned vegan, I will not consume a food that blatantly causes harm to animals or insects. It's just plain wrong. Let's stop hiding behind the them vs us mentality, and stand up as proud vegans and say enough is enough. I will NOT consume almond milk or avos that aren't certified organic, and I live in a country that takes certification seriously (Australia).
Much respect for the self correction. I don’t agree but I appreciate the objectivity..good job 👍🏿
I'm not a vegan. I just do the best I can not to destroy the environment by my dietary choices. So this minutia from vegan haters is irrelevant. I happen to choose vegan %99 of the time because it tastes better.
Douglas Sawyer do it 100% then :)
I only have consensual sex 99% of the time because rape just feels better.
@@multishit6664 So now we have vegans that hate on those who are (were) on their side. I get it. Now I understand why many quit the cause. Four years wasted. Time to shoot that deer that has been eating the garden and fire up the bbq.
Douglas Sawyer oh, so u WERE vegan? What changed?
Im not judging u in any way btw
Stupid vegan wannabe.. thinks he can be part of the cult with a lousy 99%.
LOL i absolutely love that she assumes that vegans are made up of only “millennials” 🙄 why do people feel the need to be so defensive about their choices and attack anyone who decides to diverge from the norm and actually has valid reasons to change the way the eat? It’s honestly so trivial to me. Like, people have even asked me if I can eat nutritional yeast bc it’s bacteria... 👀 like, if I can’t eat bacteria then I won’t be able to eat anything man c’mon
I'm 49 and I'm 5 months vegan, never too old to change but I wish I had been much younger
Yna Vegans constantly crying like babies about their choices and people who eat meat constantly cry about theirs, everyone these days just seems to be a big fat pussy.
Except monoculture industrial farming that provides the soy and grain for vegan slop causes many times more animal deaths than eating grass fed animals. Vegans turn a blind eye to this, of course. Vegans are "speciesist" a made up term they use to insult others. They care NOTHING about the millions of rabbits, rodents, snakes, and insects DESTROYED to produce their precious SOY
@@nickyrivernene5921you should turn to a halal diet it will make you feel better about slaughtering
*when you're so early the video's private*
Why was it? That happened to me too even though it was never anything but public. Probably the BBC.
@@MictheVegan My vids have been private for the first ~ 20 sec of publishing even though always are public. I think it's just a new weird quirk of how youtube works now. It's nowhere near as much of a problem as the copyright flag nonsense / no fair use / creator harassment tbh.
That happened to me on Pippa Jardine, that's when you know, your fast.
I love this! Thank you for clarifying these issues for me. I appreciate all your work.
Can you do more on veganic farming?
Could not agree more with that animals are part of natural ecosystem, but in what natural system do get pile of manure lumped in one area happen , as far as feather meal and other animal inputs are never just molted they are ripped of the living birds before slaughter with great deal of pain might add nothing humane about feather meal.
Biomass can be produced from fast growing species turned into high quality compost and add to the farming system combination of argro forestry and market gardens maybe the only answer as far as can see, farming algae or Azolla maybe another option for biomass.
@Random myths they really aren't that big a part of the ecosystem. Plants provide their own nutrients. Animal poop is just recycled plant nutrients.
Random myths. I suggest you look into Korean Natural Farming and green manures made from using only plants. And or E. Coli or salmonella or any other disease transfer from animal manures, not to mention antibiotic transfers. Btw the root word cide means to kill. There is no real need to dump chemicals into the ground. I.e. fungicide, pesticides, or herbicides, or synthetic "organic nutrients. Veganic methods need more praise. I would save the animal manure for all non-edible plants. Still a use, just not edible plants.
Gavin Matthews You might want to watch Back to Eden Film here on YT. There are also plenty of 2 - 5 hour full tours of Paul Gautschi’s garden on YT, as well. Just search Back to Eden Garden Full Tour.
Random myths. I don't really think you understood what I meant by green manure, or really what I was saying at all. And don't think you even looked into it. Or looked up the definition. Compost is great. But if I had a choice I would not want to use manure at all for edible plants. I can also tell your didn't look into antibiotic and disease transfer from farm or pet animal feces. Those are things you should really know about. If your going to start growing your own food, let alone food for others. You can grow plants just fine by feeding plants with other plants, because that is what I practice in my own garden. You really don't need manure. Maybe a little earth work castings or insect frass. Lol. But not manure.
P.S. feed the soil, and the microbes in it, so the plants can be healthy enough to fight off the bad guys. Really look into Korean Natural Farming. No chemicals needed. Chemicals only worsen the problem, becuase they automatically weaken the plants and the life of or in the soil. As for me, I have techniques and methods that I am trying to perfect. Botany and horticulture are my passions. And I know the industries are not up to my standards, but they are changing. I am hoping someday I can show to world what I imagine it to be. Only three real soil types out there, sand, silt, and clay. Certain plants like certain ratios of each better than others, but with a help you can turn sand dunes into rain forests. Also, I am a vegan who strangely even likes carnivores plants. Lol
And btw I am sure we will compost human manure someday for the planet, but when that day happens, Vegan manure. Lol Sry. It will be more beneficial than carnivore or omnivore manure. It will just compost easier. Meat takes an anaerobic composting process and is much more foul-smelling
6:20 you bring up an often ignored point. Agriculture has room for improvement in terms of the death toll that is produced.. but this will always be second priority to ending the intentional holocausting of animals. I'm not opposed to using better more ethical treatment to bees and trying to find ways around killing pests/foragers during processing or pest control, and I think you'd have to be insane to be so long as it is economically viable. However these things will never ever be improved upon whilst we have an industry that exists solely to intentionally kill animals needlessly
if you eat a lifetime-pastured ruminant, such as a cow the death toll is exactly one. and you get a colossal amount of calories and nutrients. the equivalent amount of nutrients from conventionally farmed crops might have a higher death toll.
@@chichikov617 of course you are forgetting that you have to feed that cow with the farming you just pointed out. And cows only transfer %4 (thats the massive calories) of calories for what they consume(even more massive than that).
Let's assume that's the case- practical issues aside (pasture raised is incredibly inefficient and won't ever be economically viable as the only mode of meat production) there's a categorical difference between killing something that is destroying your property and can't be reasoned with or practically dealt with otherwise, and intentionally breeding something for the sole purpose of murdering it.
im not suggesting that current levels of meat consumption can or should be replaced with pasture. Simply that that a system of food production that utilizes some pastured (or wild) animals (remember that grasslands are natural ecosystems and not all land is suited for farming anyway) in addition to crop farming for humans might have a lower death toll overall.
Isnt that what matters? the number of animals that actually die as a result of your choices? If your excusing deaths because they werent 'intentional' then arnt you just making it all about your feelings. It becomes about your personal foibles rather than reality.
unintentional deaths are likely to be slower and more painful that the intentional ones.
Reducing the amount of death overall is good but the category of death is usually more important. It is ethically justified to kill things that attack your property and food source when you have no other practical means to dealing with them. It is not okay to commit murder for taste pleasure. These are categorically very different things.
We know we economically contribute to human suffering and death in some way with the food products we demand whether it be in transportation, due to exposure to industrial agents, etc. Let's say we could actually reduce this level of suffering/death by farming humans in a system similar to what you propose cattle. Would you be for or against that?
People just hate vegans. :(
I am one
ScarletFame I don't hate vegans. But I've been treated very badly by quite a few of them. To the extent where I have to remind them that I'm a mammal too. In the meantime, I do not allow their meanness to discourage me from my vegan efforts. I recall that there are mean people in every Walk of Life. to that extent, I don't think you can accurately say that everyone who isn't vegan hates vegans.
People hate feeling guilty. Vegans remind them they are.
They don't hate vegans they hate that vegans force them to question their own morality. Right? 😉
Yeah, it's kind of a strange paradox, isn't it? Most people claim to love animals, yet they hate the very people trying to reduce harm to....wait for it...animals.
Those KetoHolics are hoping to buy all the good avocados before the vegans get to them....?? ; D
We aint gonna let that happen.!!😉
I'm a former keto guy. I gave it up because of Mic here, I didn't realize what it was doing to me!
Incidentally, though, it was through the keto "diet" (that didn't work - I ended up GAINING weight!) that I discovered just how much I really do like avocados.
So, I hope there's plenty left for the vegans out there! Don't let the keto army win!
They'll be weak, sick, and dying out soon enough anyway... We can hold them off till then!
I covered all this in my comments on that video too. Also, I'm not a millennial. That's just Ageism. You know what they say about assumptions? Mmhm. That's right.
=)
Exactly. Reduce suffering. Fight the big issues first then go after the other things after that's solved.
Why delay the problem when you can already solve the problem?
Well, crap. I just bought some avocados. I guess since it is impossible for me to be vegan, I should buy some dead animal too...
I think a more solid viewpoint to base veganism on would be only to consume and use products that "can" exist without causing undue harm to animals. In that way its somewhat of a preparation for an ideal world; whilst some of those products may lead to animal suffering at this point in time, as we improve our practices we can come up with better ways of acquiring them
I'm a UK vegan... this whole avacado thing has been such an annoying pain in the ass anti vegan thing.
Thanks for doing this Mike !
M Gat an annoying pain in the ass? What are you a wimp? Things like this are easily ignored.
You have to face the FACTS, even if they are not convenient for YOU. You can't go on consuming these prodcuts that are BASED ON ANIMAL SUFFERING
Now you know what it's like listening to whining vegans
That argument is pretty ridiculous. Also people should eat seasonally & support their local farmers!!!!
The killing of innocent animals is ridiculous?
@@TheFettuck
You still didn't say what the cut of human meat is that you find tastiest.
@@HopyHop1 You are very ignorant. I already explained that I don't eat humans. I'm not a cannibal.
i totally agree with what you said about focusing right now on the animal products and after we tackle that problem, then we can focus on plant production etc.
Delaying the problem doesn't save the lives of innocent bees.
4:31 as someone living with OCD, just wanted to mention that using the term as a synonym for “nit-picky” or “anal” is hurtful and spreads misinformation about what OCD actually is... a really complex mental health issue that is really misunderstood by the general population... otherwise this is a great video!
Really? That is all you took from this? Another professional victim
This is exactly what I think! Someone sent me the BBC clip and I was like bees are natural pollinators! And secondly its impossible to be 100% vegan but at least we're trying to make conscious choices about living cruelty free as much as possible.
Lol..these ppl are crazy.." you know your not vegan if you step on bacteria right" lmao
But it's true. Bacteria are animals, and if you kill them, your are a hypocritical vegan. Taking a shower kills millions of innocent bacteria.
@@banishedfromthedwarfplanet530 bacteria is bacteria and animals are animals, humans are humans..There's levels to it..humans are bacteria..is it ok to eat humans because bacteria are animals? Dumbass
@@banishedfromthedwarfplanet530 bacteria are not animals. Go take a biology class so you can be less ignorant and uneducated.
@@banishedfromthedwarfplanet530 😂😂😂
elines acevedo-- They are not plants either. They are living things that have as much right to life as you do. Are you prejudiced against them because they are not technically animals? Bacteria follow all of the criteria to be categorized as "living". Most bacteria are composed of a cell, have organization, use energy, produce waste and can maintain homeostasis, and they have the ability to grow. Much like an animal.
I'll go back to biology class when you take some sensitivity training and stop killing an innocent life forms.
Working on the supply chain is the next step of veganism. All workers who are not vegan: "YOU'RE FIRED!!!!"
It is like that scene from Incredibles 2: "Launch phase 3 NOW!!!!!"
You have a very vivid imagination.
Whenever a carnist tries to Strawman a vegan it reminds me of when ever a religious person tries to Strawman atheists. They never even know the basic definition of what they talking about but are so comfortable making assumptions based off of their false definition.
Yeah, a religious person at work told me I believe in "God" because I use the common phrase "oh my god", to communicate shock and disbelief ironically. First of all, just because she uses the common phrase "ojalá" in Spanish, which means something like "hopefully" for us Puerto Ricans, but actually means "if Allah is willing" in Arabic, doesn't mean she believes in Islam. Secondly, exclaiming omg would be blasphemous to someone who really believed in god and the bible so, omg wtf?!
"oh, so you're an atheist? You must worship the devil." No, you worship a devil, I worship no imaginary deity.
@@jelatinosa It's frustrating to reason with those kind of people... Especially when you're third generation and your Spanish isn't the best
@@jelatinosa "He was listening to athiest doctrine" My mother (she's black but that's irrelevant). How can you be so deluded you think there's an actual ideology behind not believing in fairy tales
@@theveganwujeeta lol atheism is a religion argument.
The supposed conclusion would be: vegans can't eat avocados, but for meat eaters it's ok because they live from the death of animals anyway.
so glad I can just comment with posting this video in the future and don't have to argue with everyone who was commenting about this topic in the past weeks! THANK YOU!
Humans are animals also, so capitalism is not vegan.
so sad that I found no other comment mentioning capitalism...
@@daryoshi161 Most of vegan youtubers actually are proponents of capitalism, they actually believe that you can got to the store and vote for veganism. Because apparently that is how all social change is made, by shopping.
@@RUclipsUser-nd8qv I'm starting to set out to change the opinion regarding capitalism of the several dozens of vegan activists I know, only around 20% of which are socialists (around 50:50 libertarian socialists and authoritarian socialists). I think this is more effective than most other things I could do.
EDIT: I agree with you; it's silly to think of veganism as the "solver of all problems".
There is nothing wrong with industrial capitalism. In industrial capitalism, capital is a product of labor that can't be marketed directly but is used to create goods that can be marketed. Financial capitalism is the scam. In financial capitalism, all money is created out of debt with interest attached to the debts. When the ineluctable bankruptcies occur publicly funded state agents are used to repossess property for the sake of those who create money out of thin air.
I find that it's hard to run into any researcher who has a grasp on the financial scam and is vegan. I doubt that Eustace Mullens, David Graeber, James Corbett and many others who expose the fraud are vegan. And then you have vegans like McDougal who don't understand that the Vietnam war was started from a hoax attack in the Gulf of Tonkin. It's a rare person who can see the food scam as well as the war and money scams. Tsarion might be the only one I can think of.
@@HopyHop1 " In industrial capitalism, capital is a product of labor " Just that the profits do not go to the laborers. No to mention that the the underlying issue is still profit incentive, that means that the actual end product is always profit. Not the product being manufactured, and that leads to all sorts of issues like short life-cycles and exploitation of workers to maximize profits. As like you said, capital is a product of labor... so the only way to create profits for the owner is by extracting it from the workers.
unholy guacamole?
I have chickens and pets. When I became vegan 2 years ago I got grief for keeping them. How messed up is that!
long as your not eating or selling the eggs, caring for animals is what vegans do best. but, understandably it is a tough subject. if I ever do get a pet, I think it would have to a herbivore. I do love the YT channel Vanilla HamHam
Pets are prisoners!
Eat whatever you like.
Avocado, meat, grass, etc.
no one can tell you what to eat or not.
If you find this such an issue just go get your vegetables and fruits from a local organic farmer and ask the farmer directly.
But the farmer is capable of lyin.
I doubt that Sandi Toksvig was responsible for that question being included in the show - it was probably scripted for her.
That said - I agree completely with your response.
Oh, so she didn't come up with the millenial burn either?
Probably not - though there is a lot of improvisation in the programme. She is the presenter rather than the originator of the show. I’d guess the reference to millennials was chucked in because it references a stereotype that is being used here for its comic potential, but as a gay woman of left-ish leanings, I doubt that she believes all the rubbish about a millennial ‘group’. (And as the mother of a ‘millennial’, I certainly don’t!).
Facts and logic destroy carnist nonsense everytime
Sounds familiar😂
@@hhancp it's spreading =D
The farming of certain crops destroys the lives of innocent bees everytime.
Aren't honey bees a European introduced/ invasive species that are crowding out natural pollinators? Makes one wonder how every flowering plant in N.A. managed to fruit prior to European settlers... (sarcasm intended)
Preach it!
I think the reason the majority of society tries to find flaws or poke holes in the vegan lifestyle is because there are alot of vegans that proselytize to non vegans. Even vegetarians come under attack some times for not fully giving up animal products and that tends to breed animosity.
Thank you so much for doing this video Mike!
An eye for eye? My fav game! Now can u do one on fecal contamination in meat? Hit hard hit low 😉
I actually watched that episode of QI, and when she said it I laughed so hard. Its a fine example of last convulsions of meat/dairy industry. Reactions to this "statement" should be equal to what your sibling tell "but you used to eat this". xD
I didn't know that about palm oil. I always avoided it (only buying ONE product maybe twice a year that had it) but now I'll be avoiding it completely
Far as I'm concerned, we need more plants foods in the store, not less. There are some many different edible plants in this world, most people die before ever getting the chance to try them. sad, but that's why am trying to learn how to grow at least one, so my family and I can try it.
Thank goodness for this video. I just had to roll my eyeballs all the way back into my head the other day when my colleague couldnt WAIT to tell me about how avocados aren't vegan. She literally couldnt contain her energy as scrambled to find the "evidence" on her phone.
We're just over here doing our best to be kind humans and trying to constantly choose the lesser of two evils. I'll keep the avo, thanks.
My solution to this, and all other environmental issues associated with plant-based agriculture is to always grow anything in a home garden whenever possible, which requires zero fossil fuels to be burned in shipping, and doesn't take any land away from wild animals. You can also intentionally grow all kinds of edible veggies and herbs that attract and feed bees throughout spring/summer/fall. That being said, I live in the concrete jungle of Brooklyn now, so if you have access to any land/rooftop etc. please plant that home grown on my behalf! And thanks as always for being a voice of reason Mic!
Why would you rather continue with the exploitation and killing of bees, instead of moving to somewhere else?
Is your convenience more important then the lives of innocent animals?
@@TheFettuck How is planting flowers (that happen to bloom on edible plants) exploiting bees, who live wild and free, and choose to visit my garden whenever they feel like it, and without it would have nothing to eat in a suburb full of concrete and grass (where I used to live, now it's just concrete).
Domesticated bees are killed during the production of commercially farmed crops.
You buy these commercially farmed crops when you live in a concrete suburb.
You indirectly kill innocent bees when you continue to live in a concrete suburb.
@@TheFettuck Sooo... quit my job and move to a farm and be broke and cease to promote animal rights in the city? Also even in the growing of our own crops you know you're still killing insects even by walking on and turning the soil right? Or are you Vegan Jesus who is magically perfect in all respects?
So you care more about your own convenience instead of the lives of innocent insects?
You don't have to walk on the soil when you grow your own crops in a greenhouse.
What a dumb argument, anyone that believes that avocados aren't vegan because of bees, doesn't understand how pollination works. Simply put, bees aren't the only pollinators in town and plants often pollinate themselves using wind. Intensive agriculture and horticulture farming practices can destroy habitats for pollinators. You would actually be doing the bees a favor if you go vegan, considering how much land is cultivated for agricultural purposes. Perennial plants such as avocados can provide a long term place of residence for pollinators. Which is why we need to plant more trees and shrubs.
Avocados aren't vegan because they contain fat, which is vegans' kryptonite. It has nothing to do with bees.
Laura Te Aho-White - You don't seem to understand that beekeepers harm and kill domesticated bees with some of their actions (transport, culling, etc.).
@@TheFettuck Honey bees aren't the only species in avocado pollination. Other pollinators include bumblebees, wasps, hover flies and native bee species. All of these pollinators are more hardy than honey bees and are more likely to occur naturally in areas where avocados are produced. Colonies are brought in where the local population isn't enough for fruit production. Habitat is destroyed by agricultural farming methods, such as deforestation and tilling. Reducing animal consumption may be able to improve local populations of pollinators, as there will be more local food and habitats available. That's why I mentioned going vegan will be doing the bees a favor.
Laura Te Aho-White - The exploitation and killing of bees is doing the bees a favor?
@@TheFettuck Killing bees is bad for business and is avoided where possible. However like I stated, bees are not the only pollinators. Supporting a local pollinating colonies can avoid the need to bring in pollinators from elsewhere. Generally bees that are used for pollinating fruit trees are not used for honey production.
Hey mic! How old were you when you went vegan? I'm 30 now want to go vegan. After watching all your videos I almost feel terrible for eating meat my entire life lol.
Around 20 :)
Ahh but switching now will still make a massive impact on your health, the environment and the aninals! Do it and spread the word!
There’s a really good docuseries called Rotten that talks about the dark side of things that go into certain foods like garlic and other foods. It’s not about veganism but they do talk about the chicken industry and the bee colony collapse. That’s actually where I learned about BCC and stopped having honey.
Hello Mic, so glad you've addressed this in your usual factual way. As a British person, I swear the BBC have a hand down meat/dairy pants as its not the first time that veganism has been slated. I've noticed a few times even misinformed comments made in a well known soap opera on that channel. The growing number of vegans are making meat/dairy industries running scared. Also how about fruit veg farmers not use pesticides that way minimal to no harm towards smaller beings and healthier for us. I understand it's to ensure yields but it would help natures circle (bee, environment and us) in a big way.
Check out food forests!
Heck yeah, permaculture makes so much sense vs. other farming methods :D Working with nature instead of against it.
I will surrender my avocado toast, when the animal holocaust ends... If I could help the world to go vegan in one day somehow, by agreeing never to eat an avocado again. It would be worth it. But I would a miss them dearly. I might also surrender my avocado toast when I get to poop blue turds. Hey, maybe if I eat enough edible blue flower pedals... I would totally eat nothing but blue flower pedals for a day or two just to make it happen. Lol #sillyvegan4life #aturdeveryoneisgoingtowanttosee
um. lol. pooping flowers sounds like the best edible toilet paper for your insides. you might be on to something. might be the new hippest trendy cleanse. call it the flower enema. lol besides it probably be the best smelling fart in history. call that something like butt-pourri
Didn't you watch the video? Avocados are also a part of the animal holocaust/exploitation.
If you don't want to stop eating avocados, then you also don't want the animal holocaust to end.
TheFettuck. You got me, I am just an evil vegan sitting on his high horse eating guacamole... who doesn't eat honey. But more importantly, are you going to stop eating avocados? Are you still eating dead body parts? Nice try.... (^_^ )
I hope you were joking when you wrote that...
@@daggnabbitboy6276 Bees are still exploited even without the consumption of their honey.
You clearly aren't vegan, because you seem to think that the killing of innocent bees is a joke.
What did Europe do to your hair? 🤷🏼♂️
Finally! I've been wondering what this was about but did not have the energy to investigate. Fascinating.
I’m not a Vegan (yet) but I must say this video is presented in such a clear and understandable way, that I feel my time invested watching it does not compare to the value of it.
Are we winning that they are trying this Hard?
Yep =) every food shop/resto will have vegan alternatives. Just the other day I was at a vegan lebanese resto and a couple walked in wanting to order shish taouk and when they realized it was all vegan they were confused at first but then decided to try it out =)
man, we are winning so hard, that I would be surprised if vegans were one fifth the population now. Slavery took four hundred year to abolish, I have hope that it will only take maybe five or ten more years till factory farming is a thing of the past. #yourbaconwaskilledinagaschamberlikehitlersvictims #meatismurder
If only they showed at least 1 % of the care for cows as much as they do for bees...
1. Insects most probably don’t feel pain and due to their size, their consciousness is that of a small robot. Entomologists can say whatever they want, but no one can develop complex social relationships during a lifespan of up to 6 months. Insects are the most commong household pests that people, including vegans, usually kill. People who say they care about insect suffering don’t look serious at all.
2. Beekeepers kill bees, but it’s NEVER for food. This is why beekeeping is fundamentally different from most other animal exploitation businesses. Unlike egg and milk production, vegetarian honey production (that is, without killing bees) is possible and practiced. There is an enormous difference between killing every single animal without exception (meat / milk / egg industries) and sparing most animals (honey industry).
3. The issue of "bee exploitation" itself doesn’t make much sense at all. Bees are NOT kept in cages, they can ALWAYS roam freely wherever they wish in places where food is abundant. How on earth would this be considered "cruelty"? Vertebrate animals, on the other hand, are usually kept in cages, in enclosed spaces or restrained.
4. If the plant agriculture is so dependant on bee polination, beekeeping would be one of the few areas of animal agriculture where the problem could be solved by improving keeping and handling conditions.
These are the reasons why I never associate honey avoidance with veganism. If needed, I say that I don’t eat honey, because it tastes gross (it actually does).
Beekeepers I know de-wing their queens, which effectively imprisons the hive. This crosses the line from stewardship to exploitation, and is SOP. By the way, "insects are lesser animals and are therefore less worthy of our care" is not vegan thinking, and I caution you that it could be a slippery slope to equivocation about other animals.
@@tamcon72 " "insects are lesser animals and are therefore less worthy of our care" is not vegan thinking" - there shouldn’t be any "vegan thinking", there should be "human thinking".
Insects are objectively smaller animals with incredibly small brains, very short lifespan and a dubious capability of feeling pain. How come anyone would equate their suffering with that of a vertebrate?
@@550077 What? If you are a vegan, you have a vegan world view and life philosophy that is Least Harm principle-based. You don't--or oughtn't to--stratify living beings into those more and less worthy of compassion or respect.
Arguably, insects, because they have evolved without intervention from humans, are more "natural" and useful to the ecosystem and therefore _more_ deserving of compassion and respect than livestock animals, with which we can more easily empathize. Hierarchies of importance typify carnist thinking, and that gets a vegan in trouble, because what logically follows from my example is the defending of insect life and ignoring the defense of cattle, sheep, pig, hen, etc. life.
Better to not play favorites and try not to hurt any creature, no matter how small, needlessly. This _should_ be "human thinking," but, at present, it is just "vegan thinking."
@@tamcon72 "[insects are] therefore more deserving of compassion and respect than livestock animals" - the ecosystem is a human concept, it has no feelings.
It’s your personal choice to respect bees more than cows. It has nothing to do with veganism.
1. Please read the definition of veganism! Insects are animals! You shouldn't harm animals!
2. Beekeepers exploit and kill bees in the production of food. Certain crops wouldn't exist without pollination.
3. Domesticated bees are kept in human-made beehives (wooden boxes). These hives are transported.
4. A simple solution for this would be to farm other plants which aren't pollinated by domesticated bees.
We need to abolish capitalism and the state to abolish factory farming. Capitalism fuels carnism and the state defends capitalism.
Capitalism is a pillar of carnism. Look up the origin of the word.
Pretty much, yeah.
Bam, you nailed it again Mike! I literally had to explain this same line of reasoning to a friend over the phone after this silly article came out.
Well done! Now I don't have to waste my own breathe explaining this to people and can just share your video.
Vox just did an article on why people hate vegans. I was surprised that it wasn't just a slam piece and actually was pretty decent.
First view and comment YAY
Oh damn 5 seconds too late.
What is the harm in taking honey if it is in excess in the hive, and it is only on a small, backyard scale? Could I still consider myself vegan if my bees are well-kept?
Since the term "as mush as possible, and practicable" in the vegan society's definition is quite subjective, I am declaring that from now on I am a vegan. I eat meat in small quantities on a regular basis. But reducing it down further is not possible and practicable for me. Therefore, I am a vegan.
A woman at work seems to be really angry towards my veganism, she keeps shouting and telling me ridiculous things like "I purchase 10 litres of milk every second day" or "Please go and eat a steak or roasted liver for some nice B12". I think she is chlinically insane. Why is there so much hatred towards veganism???
Outlaw ask her who's liver she want you to eat,then tell her you don't eat corpses.tell her you love milk, and ask her have you tried the barrista style oat milk by oatly.
@@sharondunne9832 I would, but she is russian and thinks she has to behave like the stereotype. This will only end badly for me ... :P I'm gonna tell her the oatly milk like tho haha
Logic? "If you can't be perfect at something, you shouldn't try at all."
Logic? "You shouldn't try to be perfect, because it isn't convenient."
We can simply decide if any of the food is vegan or not by defining if it's necessary to eat for nutritional reasons.
You can exclude all foods that are not necessary for you to eat and by that reduce harm as much as practically possible. Same goes for everything else, like clothing, cosmetics or cleaning products.
Thank you!!! I appreciate you and the sanity check is much needed sometimes dealing with people trying to assuage their own guilt
I like your analysis of why that woman chose to make that statement about Avocados on her program. As a vegan, I am often challenged by such statements by carnivores who want to validate their choice to harm animals. So, yeah! Thank you for this educational and inspiring video.
please dont use OCD as a adjective to mean picky/precise/persnickety/ect. OCD is a neurological and mental health condition not a single action or a descriptor of such.
Didn't know I was gonna cry over orangutans during this video. The more you know... the more you cry.
Me too and now I'm angry, I wish I could fly out there and deliver some justice for those babies
Thank you so much for the warning. My son was listening with me.
I loved this episode, it really does a great job laying out practical information.
Personally I do not eat almonds or avocados because they are very expensive. I choose to invest in foods grown in my area and purchase produce from regional and local grocers.
Nice work, looking forward to the next video!
I don't buy avocados very often, but this won't lessen the amount I do buy. Or cucumbers and the other things mentioned. If I have the option to buy things from producers that don't use those methods, I will. But I have to eat, and I eat a wide variety of plant foods for health's sake.
There's a reason why a lot of the animals eaters I talk to loose momentum when I mention veganism comes from the word ahimsa to live in nonviolence derived from yoga teachings for over 5000 years. Even all religions take their practices, songs and dances from yoga aswell. Ya truth!
P.s thaks Mic you're truly amazing! Namaste brother!
"I'd rather die than do a poopie." I feel you, bee Brother. I'm exactly the same when at my girlfriends place in early stages of the relationship.
0:22 brilliant. Where's my gun, I am so dead. No wait, can't I just eat dirt?
All your points were excellent; I also saw the QI episode in question (still my favorite program). But there is irrefutable evidence that in one part of Chili, there is a dangerously growing monoculture of avocados for export by large landowners; the fact that water rights are not state monitored have enabled them to put a large community of small diversified farmers out of business and drained the water tables to such an extent as to create desert drought conditions. I do think that this one area should be considered. This does not happen in South Africa or Mexico, pace the drug lords buying up the industry aspect; California-produced avocados are not exported. This is only happening in one part of Chili, but to be on the safe side I have been avoiding avocados from that country.
TRUE we need more articles saying “Thank You Vegans” instead of “Sorry Vegans!”
Loved it! Thanks for sharing your input
I may appear that you intensionally delete comments from carnivores. Didn't see a single comment disagreeing with "your points". Good job dude, you earned your almond.
Videos like this completely solidify how insane veganism is.
Currently intrigued by the idea of public greenhouses and gardens where numerous vacant properties serve no purpose, combating these kinds of issues on a small scale, though providing more locally grown produce at lower costs.
Those are the types of 'jobs' (unless you love gardening and crafting foods from ingredients right outside) we could benefit from more than fast food industries if enough people were on board.
I know it exists already, though taking into consideration how much owned property are sitting to ruin in every town, it's kind of ridiculous that even local residents are at times going hungry, or enthusiasts have to buy store bought imported foods that could very well be picked from "down the road" if they do not have availability to maintain their own gardens/crops/greenhouses, which would honestly be the healthiest and most rewarding benefit of all.
We can dream, I suppose.
There's some degree of harm caused at some point along the production of essentially every type of food, this it's why it's important to draw clear lines. If it's an animal product, it's not vegan. However once factory farming is abolished, the next goal should be to find better ways of growing plant foods so as to minimize the harm caused.
Tu quoque - logical fallacy - I learnt something new today! Thanks for your sensible response to this issue - I had dismissed it as ridiculous anyway but it’s interesting to put it into perspective and understand what factual information is behind the lunacy of the original comments.
I have stopped eating advocados as a vegan due to the enviromental issue around them. Advocado trees are one of the thirstiest species and needs 1000 liter to produce 1 kg advocados so that's why I stopped consuming them. Collecting the kernels, drying and grinding them and adding it to your oat or recipes gives you also a dose of anti-oxidants and fiber.
And nothing beats bying and eating locally. Thanks for the bulkload of informational videos, Mic. Keep the good work up . Cheers
You should also stop with the consumption of almonds, bananas, cacao, soy, coconuts and basicly all other commercial crops when you don't want to support their harmful production practices.
So glad you addressed this! I live in the UK and this has been circulating everywhere with omnis using this as a steak to beat down vegans yet again. I'd rather TRY to vegan than not try at all, whether avocados are technically "vegan" or not.
Plants are vegan. >.>
Some people will try anything to feel better about not going vegan when their own conscience tells them to.
By the way, vegans ARE omnivores who exclude animal products from their diet. That still leaves 4 of the 5 kingdoms of life to eat from (nutritional yeast and mushrooms are fungi, spirulina is a bacteria, etc). Meat eaters is such an ugly name though, gotta find something that works better.
@@asukachan07 how? Would you find a better name that accurately reflects that diet? Carnist? Carrion muncher? That's the best one... at least plant based doesn't raise the same stigma as vegan
Alright, *practising omnivore*
@@katiej2861 I have to hand it to you is nicer sounding but now it sounds back handed
I'm so glad I found this video. I have been full Vegan now for 3 years and when ever I start talking about why I have chosen this way of life I get instantly attacked about eating almonds and Avocados and using shampoos or antibiotics or using deodorant. Seriously can everyone just learn to understand the good that being vegan actually does and stop attacking them at every angle!
There are lots of Vegan deodorants & Shampoos & conditioners. I'm now using shampoo & conditioner bars. They are more cost effective (Last longer) & reduce plastic use. They are also more of a natural product. In terms of antibiotics, we do overuse them & need to be aware & cautious so they work when we desperately need (for lifesaving purposes!) The Vegan society definition is do the least harm that's practically possible. Hope you find some great deodorants & Shampoos etc soon. ♡
What are stupid times we are living in. This is How Rome fell.
Great topic Mike. Some carnists will say anything to justify their bloodlust. Any time they point out a "vegan sin", they should stop eating meat, since that's what they vicariously are preaching against.
Well,
those bees are getting treated horrible. I have seen a episode or documentary about bees migration with trucks for almonds and it appears that the vast majority in atleast the US almonds use this method. The amount of bees that die from that is vastly bigger then bees getting hurt for honey. We were talking about whiping 10.000 colonies of bees, every single time.
So maybe chosing another nut to eat isn't even such a bad idea.
Can I just say something as a hitchhiker, this last year I saw the most dead bees on the side of highways that I’ve ever seen before. Literal piles and thousands of bees for miles. Allot of bees get lost of transport. I feel like being able to see the difference this last year was the worst I’ve even seen it.
A little bit off topic but I feel like that’s data that people aren’t collecting when it comes to colony collapse. You never hear people talking about all the dead bees littering highways and the rise of that.