Weiler Primus Updates
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- Опубликовано: 22 мар 2024
- DRO: Aikron A30-3V
X Scale: Aikron AKS 120mm, 1micron
Z Scale: Aikron AKS 420mm, 1micron
Z1 Scale: Aikron AKP 100mm, 5micron
Cutting oil:
Oelheld DiaCut EMM 2500
Visit my website for FAQ, a list of my machines, my products and some project documentations:
gtwr.de/
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I post very regular on Instagram:
/ stefan_gtwr
#practitioner_of_the_mechanical_arts 
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My 9 year old boy says, "if you handed Stefan Gotteswinter a part we made on our lathe, he'd throw it at you"
Amazing
🤔 your boy has a solid understanding of metrology 😂. I’m assuming 🤷🏽
@@karlmckinnell2635 well, he knows enough to almost ready a mic.
Completely agree - surfaces get cluttered because people can't be bothered to put stuff away. Workshop organization is as satisfying as making good parts - and an integral part of the mindset of precision. That's my opinion anyway, and that's really all it is. You have a great shop. Cheers!
Thank you very much!
I mean, just like your kitchen. Your can you turn or quality product when your workplace is dirty an unorganized. Your product is liable to reflect that. Some people can amazingly work magic in a chaotic environment, however. That's a fact. But it is rare and impossible to maintain consistency. And efficiency will always suffer. I agree 100% as well. Stefan is a fine example for anyone seeking good practices to implement, I firmly believe.
Please excuse my mistakes up there. I am struggling with a new kindle fire and it is NOT user friendly, not in the least. But its hard to hate a free device.
@@philbert006 no apology needed. Solid points. 👍
Free is the best price point. 😁
Buy a cat and all horitontal surfaces will be cleared of items. This is why we know the world isn't flat. If it was, cats would have pushed everything off it by now.
"the diameter counts in 2 .... doesn't count at all because... we lost connection" 🤣 I really appreciate that you leave this stuff in. Cracking up.
Since you make relatively small amounts of chips just get a salad spinner and wring them out with that. Quite a bit cheaper than a 'proper' centrifuge but does the exact same thing. My buddy had one that was more of a commercial kitchen one that was around 20L so he could process quite a bit of material in a batch from the cold cut saw that ran straight oil. They just make a fine mesh screen basket to drop in it and in just a couple moments they could recover quite a bit of the oil that would otherwise have gone with the chips.
Or use your front load clothes washer😂
Great to see those magnets make an appearance. Like the return of a long lost friend. 👍😀
Great setup Stefan, I can't argue with any of your choices. Enjoyed!
ATB, Robin
Thank you, Robin!
Seeing those HD shots of the fresh oil on the turning machine are oddly satisfying!
Congrats, that is a very nice machine! I'm a bit skeptical about the oil but you've made some very convincing points about it. I hope it works out!
32:12 😮 and hot damn, look at them arm muscles! 😂
I like all the tips and tricks scattered throughout your videos. I have adopted quite a few of them into my hobbies.
Great to see the new lathe performing to what you need it to do. I completely agree about the use of oil.
Here I was, just ready to turn off the computer and go shopping when up pops a new post from Stefan. Oh well, shopping will need to wait a bit. Never once have I regretted taking the time to watch one of Stefan's posts. Greetings from snowy, cold Canada.
As always, Well done 👍. Thanks for taking the time to share.
I appreciate and enjoy your sharing the experience derived details and nuances, that separate a machinist from a machine operator.
One thing I enjoy is how quiet the Weiler is. Such a pleasure when you have to operate a machine for an extended time. Great purchase I'd say.
Excellent! Have been looking forward to the Weiler update
Despite all this changes and improvements you are able to keep the human scale and control at hand all the time.Thank you Stefan.
Thanks once again for sharing your thoughts and expertise. Greatly appreciated!
Thank you for the workshop tour.
Oil definitely works for some machines and some operations but not for everything.
And yes, all of the problems you say with coolant are absolutely true.
But on the scale of your work oil makes sense.
Enjoyed you fitting that dro, nicely done.
Love your work.
Another greeting from cold cold Canada, thank you for educating me so well. Production values on my Pixel are great
Very Nice machine. So cool about the compound angle being compensated. That is such a handy thing.
Great to see the progress
It must be Aikron week, I am installing 4 Aikron scales and readout on my King KC20 milling machine this weekend :-) My second Aikron install, but still learned a few things from your video. thank you.
Thanks for the share!
I always enjoy the content!
Keep it coming, please!
😊
Thank you for tips always good to see your vids keep up the good work.
Nothing like having your own workshop.
Danke, Stefan, das war wieder sehr interessant. 👍
good video stefan..thanks for your time
I’m a long time viewer and have have always admired your level of creativity and perfection and it’s been a great learning and inspirational experience for a home shop guy like myself. I own a restaurant for my day job and after watching your video this morning I walked through the kitchen and one of the girls was using a perforated full size steaming pan and I thought: could you fabricate a shallow perforated pan and suspend it just above the original pan to allow for the oil to drip off. If it was removable it could also help with chip removal. See you have taught me to keep thinking 👌👌✌️✌️
Good discussion! Lots of good pointers, thanks.
A nice machine to attach the DRO scales to. All those flat surfaces make it easier, but never easy. I'm still amazed by how big the scales are still. I would have thought by now that someone would have miniturised them to a 1/3rd the size they are now. I know trying to fit new scales to my mill were a right pain.
With regards to the cutting oil, I think it can go rancid. When I was an engineer in the merchant navy, a number of ships had biological issues with the main engine lubricating oil that led to major corrosion of the crankshafts, and replacing a 250 ton crankshaft is not an easy or cheap thing to do. We were supplied with drums of an additive to add to the oil to prevent the growth of the bacteria. I didn't come across it myself, but apparantly it totally stank when the oil was affected.
Great insight Vlog Stefan. Glad to se the ball pein hammer on the lathe layout table 🙂 Every machinist needs one. 🙂. The oil system looks very interesting and lends itself to the adaption of your through hole cutting tools. I have been meaning to lift my lathe up for several years now but never got round to it. ATB regards from the UK
Enjoyed the update/discussion
Thanks for the Weiler update, Stefan 👍 I admit I will miss the trusty green Maximat, but there’s no denying the superiority of this nice machine. You made the DRO installation look straightforward.
I use a similar pallet jack for moving machines, including the top heavy 1000Kg Bridgeport. It requires caution and lots of it!
As I’ve said before I respect your space-efficiency, and it’s quite evident in this chapter. Cheers!
Thanks for checking in! :D
Pallet jacks scare me a bit, but are so useful. A lot of capability for such a simple item.
Have a nice sunday!
I've used cutting oil instead of coolant on my old Tom senior m1 mill for a few years now. Yes it can be messy but the surface finishes and tool life are much improved.
Funnily enough, the mess drains away nicely overnight and as you say, rust is not a problem.
So glad to see you running oil instead of coolant in your machines... I have to cut a 1 hour tirade every time i make a video in which i even get the remotest chance of mentioning coolants and oils, where i berate the coolant for it`s watery nature, which is the bane of all proper metal machines... As said, i`m also glad that you are using the oil in the mill as well, but that was already praised beforehand in prior videos...
It`s always a great pleasure seeing someone take proper care of their machines... They are essentially supposed to outlive the operator, and the ten following generations, if treated properly... Especially old machines like your Deckel mill, baby grinder, this lathe and other such well made equipment... The surface grinder, eh, i can`t vouch for that... If she ain`t grey cast grade1, she ain`t skookum `s my motto... My surface grinder also uses replaceable ways, much akin to deckel S1 and your Bema, but the body is a massive g.c.i. g1 slab whereupon you bolt down the ways, much like the baby deckel grinder...
Hell, Stefan, while i`m at it, if i recall right, you said that Bema is around 450kg, right? If that is so, then your surface grinder is technically in the mass ballpark of the baby deckel S1, right? As i said in your other videos, I picked up an S1 just after you did yours, as i fell in love(tho, i would love a monoset t&c grinder as well, those are pornographic) with the little thing, so i know that the S1 is around 400-450kg, depending on the load-out or set-up of the machine... That is just ridiculously funny in my mind... A surface grinder of identical weight to a cutter grinder...
Either way, i`m as glad that you got that Weiler as i would be if i got her myself... As long as she is in loving hands...
¬edit
Oh, speaking of coolant and oil, oil fumes don`t cause rust, coolant vapor causes rust as it`s just bloody water that is vaporizing off... When you actually cool down an aggressive cut with coolant, you get even more vapor, hell, it`s steam... With oil, you get better lubrication of the tool, better tool life, much better surface finishes, less heat due to actual lubricity of the oil and the vapor is - yeah - oil itself... No risk of water vapor getting into precision equipment, spindles, micrometers, indicators and what not... No increased moisture in the shop, no damp or mouldy walls, just the nature`s finest - synthetic oil fumes... And with a decent filtration system, you can run the oil for ages...
Speaking of the chip centrifuge, why not make one? It`s not that hard... Just get some large dia pipe, make a barrel with holes, make a flange that will prevent oil from running into the motor and put the pipe with holes drilled into it in a pipe with no holes... You spin the bad girl around and she spits all the oil out... Just make a ``live center`` like configuration for the lids, so that the lid of the rotary pipe has proper support from the static lid, thus allowing you to run the centrifuge safely at decent speeds... Just above 1000rpm is quite good enough for such a centrifuge... It would be a great project for youtube(i think) and if you have time enough to contend with it(shouldn`t actually take that long(underestimating it already)), you will be granted a nice addition to the shop... Tho, that is just one of my wild ideas, the likes of which is why i have 30 projects on the waiting list and 5 in the works at any time...
All the best and kind regards!
Steuss
To illustrate that well made equipment which is correctly maintained endures, consider that Dave Richards uses a Brown and Sharpe milling machine that is older (by considerable margin) than any living human. Dave's results are just fine.
More great content. Thanks loads!
Weiler + cutting oil just looks right 👍
Robert
We have a neighboring shop that specializes in old school cam operated Brown and Sharpe screw machines, runs oil, slow, hss lasts forever, its a pretty good system, especially if you are running the place with minimal employees. We run oil on our 3 gear cutters, (Shaper, Hob and Bevel Generator) the stuff lasts forever with the exception of what we loose to spatter, chips, and intentionally spooning out of the sumps for squirt cans for certain manual turning, milling, and keyway broaching. otherwise its cool mist, flood or though coolant depending on the application.
Stefan, I changed from a belt sander such as yours to the more robust model on the Optimum Maschine range, 5 times more expensive. Really un-worth upgrade, as all continues requiring some tweaking, machining, bearing replacement, table surfacing, etc and you already solved the flimsy table on yours.
Anyway, this tools seems a lot of using on household and gardening items (lawn mower, kitchen knives, etc).
Guess that all home shops are to be clustered filled with many tools! Mine’s too!
Thanks for sharing, will make me complain less about lack of space in my shop.
thanks for a little bit of affirmation about the reasons i do some of the things i do, and congrats on the nice neat slide instalation. wish i could find those micro slides in australia.
You are correct sir about the glass falling out of the linear scales, don't ask how I know,,,,, bad day turned into a worse day, but you just gotta chalk it up to ,,,, well I'll not do that one again and make adjustments to your machine to where it can't get to the scale again.... Ps thanks for the wealth of knowledge you put out there, I'm sure I'm not the only hobby machinest always looking for knowledge to help us get better at what we're doing
I use a very similar oil with a different name, but it sounds like pretty much exactly the same stuff. I buy from a reclaimer so it's a bit cheaper and I can get it in 5 gallon buckets. Oil is it's own type of mess, more of a mess imho than coolant but like you said it doesn't go rancid, doesn't cause rust, and for low speed manual machining is better in pretty much every way. Tool life is much better running oil. I have it in my mill now, and will be switching the lathe over the next time I empty the sump.
Gut gemacht !
Great to see such a happy and well cared for lathe..
On my little Logan 10", I square up the Aloris- style toolpost by sticking a 123 block between the toolpost and the chuck face, and carefully (don't drop the 123 block!) tighten down the toolpost.. although I don't even have a DRO, much less preset tooling.. seems close enough for parting tool.
Also, I may in the future grind the sides of my compound to be more precisely parallel and perpendicular to the travel, to help setting angles. Might be worth checking that (presuming its essentially immeasurably close to perfect on the Weiler!).. maybe could square up the compound to a test bar in the chuck, or to the air hose hanger .. ??
My take on flat surfaces.. after I took the habit of planning the layout so that each zone, surface and workbench has a purpose, I realized my shop works much better. Earlier I tried to keep it has universal as possible and it just resulted in much wasted space waiting for that once in a lifetime big job.
Excellent tutorial💪✅👍
Great video, thank you
I do not use any of the several flood coolant systems I have in my shop. Water based is out, I do not care for rust. Have considered thin cutting oil but I am is still not convinced but perhaps now more confused...what Stefan says makes a lot of sense. I only make small batches of prototypes though, often rather precise small work in hard materials, mostly dry inserts. For Al I use alcohol to facilitate cleaning since I often need to bond these parts with epoxy, oily parts would be more work. Found this video rather interesting!
Everything is a compromise so one picks their poison. I really like your lathe!
Nice camera work when milling the feet.
@StefanGotteswinter
I've been using Swisscut Ortho NF-X 10 in my Haas Super Mini mill in my home-shop since 2015. I have never changed it, though I have added a few gallons once or twice in the last 9 years. Since I don't do any production work, oil has been far superior for my purposes. If I am doing engraving or micro-milling where the spindle is running at 10,000-15,000, I use a Mist-Buster, and use the same oil in that system. And as you point out: no smell, no rancid coolant, and far superior performance to regular water-soluble coolant under most conditions (especially drilling, tapping, and thread milling).
Air hose hanger!🤣I'm dying! I'm a big fan of cutting oil in my shop.
Your mugs are also part of the shop assets! Very fancy by the way 😀
Sounds like you can add a small chip centrifuge to the list of upcoming shop projects!
Typical, just as soon as I get my hands on a solid tool post mount, they go out of fashion. I just hope you won't give up the tool-post drilling before I'm on board!
Very nice.
Adam The Machinist runs cutting oil for similar reasons. Good for tiny parts, lots of advantages over coolant. I also know Peter of Edge Precision has a CNC tool & cutter grinder that runs oil. On big parts where chip clearance is more important, running gun drills, or other tools where high-pressure through-tool coolant is needed to quickly get chips away from the cutting face oil is worse. And on fully enclosed CNCs the overspray isn't a big issue, you don't breathe much (if any) of it. Oil is nice if you're running parts where it works, and you're running parts where it works.
Thx for the vid.
An enjoyable video.
"fitting scales is an awful job.." I think that's why I used to be asked to do them! I preferred the Newall microsyn scales. They are a 6mm carbon fibre rod so quite small, and the supplied fixings are very flexible.
Tailstock, the French call it a contre poupée , seems to fit your definition:-)
I just got an old newall scales to fit on my little mill, it was installed on a lathe for 30years and is still working ok
I just installed Aikron DRO on my horizontal/vertical mill
I see you conveniently skipped over the D-Bit grinder during the shop tour 🤣
You must be very healthy, wealthy and wise because you’re probably oily to bed and oily to rise😉 I did something similar to mount my linear scale on my cross slide. The slide lock on my machine is mounted on the air hose holder side so I machined a spacer piece with a cut-out to allow me to put an open end wrench on the hex head bolt that I used to replace the socket set screw. I made up a little plug to fill the recess and k
Keep out chips. My tablet won’t let me edit comments for some reason and I accidentally posted before I was done.
Thanks very much for the update on using oil in the lathe. I had been watching for that. I'm not sure I will go that way, but it's good to know. Maybe you would consider another update after you have been doing it for awhile? THANKS
Your shop continues to evolve in an impressive direction. You seem to have discovered the machine version of the Fountain of Youth....your machines look better with the passing of time? The topics you select for your videos are always of interest to me. Final compliment - your English is quite good!
Nice 🙌
Running oil makes a lot of sense for small high-precision parts. Actually, I believe most screw machines run oil, not water-based coolant.
Silly idea: could it make sense to drill for and use a single dowel from the bottom of the tool-post through the compound and its slide down to the cross-slide to lock everything in the zero position? You would still need to remove the tool-post and install/remove the dowel to switch between using and disabling the compound. But at least, it would make it worthwhile, for you would not just lock/unlock the tool-post but the entire thing.
Looks like a nice lathe.
regarding a chip centrifuge, i use a 20 dollar spinning lettuce dryer
Hi sieht ja toll aus die Drehbank. INfo: auf einem anderen Channel hat einer ne Bronzestange mit einem Gewinde versehen und am Reitstock verschraubt um dadurch einen Fixstop einzubauen so das der RS nicht in die Linearscale rein donnert.
Vielleicht ne Idee für Dich hab ich bei mir auch im Sinn.
Don't forget that if you have to remove the cross-slide scale (to adjust the gibs, for instance) you will have to re-do all your tool offsets. I should add that I had the same problem, so I added a locating pin to the cross-slide mount so I could reassemble it all in the exact same position.
Yeah, but I also have to not re-do them all at the same time. I consider that a minor issue.
Always informative. More 😂
I would look into reducing the coolant/oil pump motor speed to a fraction of what it is and maybe adjusting the nozzle orifice diameter down if necessary. Givin your inclination to precise work and an orderly process I guess the excess oil would become intolerable..
It is especially interesting to listen to Your thoughts about this lathe since I have a Weiler Matador (1975). It is a very similar lathe to Yours. Seems like they did not change much during these years. I bought that lathe fully overhauled, ways ground and all bearings and belts new.
The compound is really a beast if You compare it to any other similarly sized lathe. It is very rigid, being a compound and it is long enough to be able to turn most of the tapers one needs to turn.
Having the compound parallel to the ways is convenient not only because it does not impact the diameter of the cut, it is also very easy to use the compound to feed in when facing or doing other work that needs a more delicate Z-axis control that the carriage gives. Since You have the DRO on the compound, this would also have some precision.
In the Matador there is one VERY practical feature that Primus might be missing. It is the sliding clutch for feeds. If I set up a hard stop for Z-direction and then feed by power feed the carriage against the hard stop, the carriage will simply stop as the sliding clutch starts sliding. Nothing will crash. This is not only a safety thing but it really helps in turning shoulders, blind holes and whatever needs an accurate stopping point in Z-direction. The carriage stops quite repetitively at the point I have set, well withing one hundredths.
I have a similar Condor, agree on that clutch. Speeds things up when roughing. Mine is somewhat quirky to adjust though.
My Ursus CMT lathehas a feed clutch which trips when a hard stop is reached in either z or x, great for peace of mind as well as rapid roughing out. It also acts if the feed force becomes excessive (say when an insert chips or breaks) and this trip force is easily adjustable.
@@Gottenhimfella The adjustment of mine has become somewhat difficult. I do a lot of drilling with the feed and then often want change the trip for small inserts. Have not yet taken it apart or figured out how to renovate it. Not found much in the Weiler manual. I also have the cross feed stop, also convenient.
Another good long form video. I really need to get DRO's going on my machines and I appreciate this tutorial/shared experience.
I see Aikron is available in NA and their prices seem reasonable even compared to eBay stuff but I can't see that particular model. Does the dual Z axis feature exist on all their 3 axis products?
This is foundational stuff for the youtube machining community and everything you do in your production shop applies to my 10% usage hobby shop too.
I saw you went with aikron dro this time too, wondering if they would be good enough to add full closed loop for my Weiler E30.
In have some backhlash but I think first I should change the screws.
Thanks for the updates! ❤
Poor Deckel SO clone project :D
Great stuff, Stefan!
psssst 🤣
@@StefanGotteswinter 😁
Very tidy, tiny place ... so well organized ... although the rusty plant at the window looks a little thirsty. Give it something to drink. Cutting fluid ???
So you need to build a garden shed for the upcoming *_wood lathe_* that you need to procure next.
Good. That should make for some fun content.
Great video! Can I ask what live center that is with the blue band?
Looks like a really nice lathe. What's the motor HP or KW.
The last lathe l mounted scales on was a Hardinge HLV-H. The cross slide presented problems as the compound could not be removed and the cross slide is adjustable in and out relative to the leadscrew nut. This meant a longer slide than the travel via the leadscrew. Plus the scale needed to be mounted 90° compared to conventional mounting. Coolant became an issue. Mounting the carriage linear scale was easier. But it eliminated the taper attachment. We had four other HLVs with them though.
Its a two speed motor, 1,2 / 1,5kW at 1500 / 3000rpm
Hey Stefan, thanks for the update! What about a detent pin for the tool post? That way you can still rotate it and don't have to pull the pin every time.
28:37 - removing the screen protector film might also help reduce the glare. Not sure, but maybe worth a try. ;)
I like the oil idea, I might try it but not for internal boring - it will run out the back of the headstock, I'd rather control it with a drip oiler in that case.
Excellent video, thank you. In the description you have an AKP scale for Z1, i don't see that on Aikron's website. Do you have a link? Thank you as always.
I bought them from a german reseller - The AKP scales are 16x16mm cross section:
digitalanzeigen.de/home/59-glasmassstab-akp.html
Nice standing height! ...for you... good that you put the camera in a postion were we can see something. 🙂
Is the linear scale a smaller size than the "usual" ones? (or the hands are big)
Great video. Thanks. What do you think about using oil on a milling machine or a horizontal bandsaw ?
The mill has oil too, jump back one video :-)
Has a draback... 2 drawbacks... 3 drawbacks... Nobody expects the Spanish Emulsion Coolant!
The air hose hanger. Lol
Regarding altering cable out for read heads. Is it possible to change the scale end caps around to the other end.
Thanks for the update. I wonder if you will re engineer the cross slide hand wheel and dial as you did with the earlier machine 😊.
Nope, not necessary with the linear scales :)
I tried cutting oil in my last lathe, but the Coolant tank capacity was too small and it wouldn't return fast enough to keep running, the tank was part of the base casting so adding volume wasn't easy.
My new lathe, is pretty much the same machine but 15 years newer so has a much larger sheet metal built tank on the floor, or will do when it gets set back under the lathe. I will likely run oil in it.
Love the beauty of the Weiler, no wonder it is pricey. You must be confident that rear side of the compound slide is parallel to compound movement to adjust compound angle to zero this way. Though rarely used, transfer screws are not that expensive and a set takes very little space. I usually have different projects going at the same time, so it is a constant battle to have free space. When I was younger, cooling fluids was often growing bacteria.Making small wounds on your hands hard to heal. Is this addressed in modern fluids?
The shop looks well organised and clean. Re. using cutting oil as a general purpose coolant, do you use it all the time or just for threading and form turning / parting ? I saw in one of the videos the cutting oil Adam uses for his CNC is spec'd for high speed work. Blaser I think it was, did you consider using that ?
I already see it coming, in two months Stefan releases a video “changing the oil coolant system on my Weiler lathe to a high pressure pump” 😂
If you wish to experience the practical effects of high pressure coolant , just aim a pressure washer at your chuck 😁
there is a reason why modern cnc machines have full enclosures and actual safety glass windows.
@@steveggca A collegue said to me when we got a new to us horizontal/vertical machining center with ATC that had full enclosure but no top that I’ll install a top within 2 months when Im sick of being showered in coolant 😂
@@Narwaro ah, so you have eperienced it.
dont you face any issues with parting off on a compound slide ?
I frequently change between compound & solid too post when I require to do large dia part off on strong materials & I find it equally inconvenient.
Might be a conversation you would dread to get involved in, but I would love in one of your general question topic videos to pick your brain a little bit about your views on why in your area of the world people are commonly more sensitive to things like the health effects of coolant versus oil ,the actual cost of electricity and operation, the effects of healthcare and so on. It’s always been clear to me that people think that innovation comes a lot out of Europe and maybe Germany specifically but I’ve always felt that that innovation is also in large effect driven by paying the true cost of electricity, heating your home or business, fuel costs, healthcare costs, and so on. Anyone would think it would just be rudimentary that those expenses would factor into everyone’s smart or poor choices with regards to pretty much anything but of course, in the US that doesn’t often seem to be the case.
hm.. do I see a compound angle encoder install in your future?! Too bad the DRO lacks 4th/5th axis to use that input? The 5th axis could be the tail stock.. ;-)
You can just swap ends to get the countersink holes
Are you concerned regarding the cross slide gibb screws being inaccessible for adjustment? Otherwise nice job. I also like that you included a DRO for the compound even though you covered up the gibb screws. KOKO!