CTA Cannons - Future Tank Weaponry
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- CTA (Cased Telescoped Ammunition) cannons are far from new technology, having originally been created by Air Force researchers in the 50s, and used on light tank test beds during the 70s and 80s. So why haven't they started really showing up until now? What makes them so special? That's what I explain in this video. Though not as exotic as other cannon types like railguns, CLG (combustion light gas) guns, and ETC (electrothermal chemical) guns, CTA guns are fairly unique in their own right.
Check the channel "About" section for the link to the creator of my profile picture.
Songs used (in order from first to last):
WH40K Mechanicus - Dance of the Cryptek
Halo 3: ODST - Rain (Deference for Darkness)
Second channel: / @spookstoon
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#tanks #tankhistory #warthunder
I too want my 70mm to sound like a giant tommy gun
Danke spook!
Big dakka potential
Wait, isn't Bolter guns in WH40K 75mm?
Jericho Paita 25mm- 30mm last time I checked
bigger bolter better
That breech design is very similar to the G11 receiver, but scaled up.
And the p90 as well
G11 uses CTA right?
Not telescoped in G11s case, G11 uses fully caseless ammo. In most basic form a propelant block and the bullet itself.
Kraut space magic
power by electricity not gas make them much reliable.
Last time I was this early, shells still had a diameter of a pixel
Man I’m really missing killing KV1s with R3 through the pixel weakspot
@@PorWik You disgusting R3 player
Haha I hate that thing when I'm playing against, but I have over 600 battles with it because I had found a talisman when it still was rank 2, so why not use it
Did they finally change that?
hedgehog3180 they added volumetric shells (so yes)
Just the fact that you used a track from the Mechanicus game as background music has earned ya a like, good taste.
I honestly never noticed the music over the sound of his voice. Might just be me though.
Indeed
Should note the 40mm gun for the Ajax is also being proposed as part of a Warrior IFV upgrade package. We'll see if it goes anywhere, though.
It won't. Military hates innovation in peacetime
Wow, I'm impressed that a 75mm round (cased telescoped or otherwise) can pen up to 430mm of steel!!! Based on the *very* light research I did on the Internet, I calculated that, for rounds up to 90mm, the use of an APFSDS shell would result in a RHA penetration value of approximately 3.444 times the caliber size in millimeters.
So, rounding up, I estimated that a 75mm APFSDS shell would only pen around 260mm of steel. The fact that an advanced cannon plus the APFSDS CTA round could provide a boost in penetration of 170mm over my estimated value is crazy to me!
If calc u made are correct, WOW! Even absent T-72 frontal penetration (AND even air superiority), a lot of enemy MBTs could be killed by a low profile, fast moving TD, mounting (in effect), a 21st-century, anti-tank HMG!
@@sholoms Oh, great, AT machine guns... How did that work out last time?
Do you really expect a system already being pushed beyond it's capacity to stand the test of a future arms race?
@@engelbert42 how did it work out? well the military is still in love, so i would say its went extremely well. i don't think it would become the primary battle cannon, but such a weapon would become a common support weapon.
@@matthiuskoenig3378 ofc. autocannons are great to support infantry. That wasn't the question tough.
Even a quick firing 75mm gun is by no means a reliable anti tank weapon... It just makes next MBT armor design consider that threat.
So that's four tomatoes worth of performance improvement. Interesting . I was thinking two watermelons but I'll settle for four tomatoes . Probably a pretty costly system. In the neighborhood of 40 million pents.
the French EBRC Jaguar uses the CTA international 40mm CTAS cannon and is already in service. I don't think we really " have to wait to see if these projects go somewhere ".
CTA cannons are already in service
Ignored 100%
And it's working fine?
Let's say that opening took me by surprise.
Me: *is on youtube*
YT Algorithm: would you like to have a furry explain to you a concept for a gun of which you have never heard?
not a furry; but yes
@@evolutiondriver7902 Well if you like German tanks, you're technically a furry
@@rakaipikatan8922 *purrs in Panther*
@@r3load3z34 *rawr in Tiger*
@Rakai Pikatan *breaks down in Porsche Tiger*
Wow, never heard of this before.
Hk g11 scaled up
Not really the same, G11 uses Caseless ammunition.
Welcome to the club
@@SleepySkull1 I dont think that's how it works
What? The G11 uses caseless ammunition, That's a fact.
Nooo, you can't just spam rounds!
*CTA Cannons* : _Ha Ha, Rounds goes brrrr_
more like DAKADAKADAKADAKADAKA
*Three seconds of firing later: barrel fucking explodes*
Indeed
Another cool thing about the new CT40 on the Ajax ifv.
So, it also has smart rounds, they can be programmed for (HE Round)
Air Burst
Contact Detonation
And FIN, for anti armour
You can fire an HE burst, programmed to:
1) punch a hole through a foot of concrete with contact Detonation
2) put 3 air Burst rounds _through to hole you punched a second before_ and burst behind it
Or you can trigger ERA on an armoured vehicle with HE and then hit that spot with a burst of FIN.
Can you do a vid on the development of composite armor?
Good idea
Nice profile pic of a Spanish Pilot!
Rapa Nuii A pilot is still a pilot they all deserve respect for what they do.(not saying you don’t respect them)
@@g_f0rce141 ofc my pa' worked in the Spanish Air force for almost 20 years that's what I said it
Rapa Nuii nice tell him thanks.
The 40mm CTA gun is also being used on the French Jaguar recon vehicle.
Let's ignore it 100%.
"Heavy seaweed armor"
-youtube captions
Hey, that’s what ww2 Japanese tanks were made out of
Cases telescoped ammunition likely won’t make it into small arms soon because pvt Joe Snuffy will always find a way to fuck up a system like that. Not to mention cleaning a conventional rifle takes about 150 Q-tips. Cleaning the GD CTA Carbine will take about 1500
If pvt. Snuffy is given enough free time, he'll destroy a solid steel block. This is why officers assign menial tasks to keep him busy.
I honestly don't see how that would be any more of an issue than anything currently in service. It would be no different than changing to a different type of conventional ammunition. On tanks, granted you have a quick moving autoloader that could potentially fail, sure, but a rifle is likely going to just use the same magazine system thats been used for a hundred years now. But ya know, new stuff bad, technology scary embrace monkey
Battleoid well one of the new bids for the ngsw has a battery powered swing breech and an entirely different magazine. I’m not saying it would be unreliable, but we have some dumb fucking kids in our ranks and they will absolutely destroy anything nice or too foreign to them. The sig sauer bid is the top contender in my opinion
@@Atlatl960Now that's fair enough, I could see that being an issue, however that's more a problem with the overall gun rather than just because it uses telescopic ammo. It could also easily be solved if the army stopped accepting people who are too dumb to follow simple instructions, but that'd be too easy
Battleoid my point exactly but unfortunately problem 2 won’t be solved anytime soon
You forget to mention the new French Recon Wheeled Tank Destroyer, the EBRC Jaguar which is beginning to enter service now is equipped with a 40mm CTA gun, the same as the AJAX.
France is using the 40mm CTAI on the T40 turret of the VBCI , the Jaguar and the Sphinx. There's an 10RC T40 proto too.
This is a giant H&K G11, watch the Forgotten Weapons video.
Well, almost. The G11 uses Caseless ammo, not telescoped ammo. But the mechanism is basicly the same.
it's the 6.8mm probably-not-replacement for the M16
Kraut Space Magic.
And the rounds are straight out of a nagant revolver jumbo
interestingly enough, one of the guns being tested for the Next Generation Squad Weapons (NGSW) program uses cased telescoped ammunition.
Spookston: Says he won't make another HSTV-L video until it is fixed
Also Spookston: Makes a video about technologies relating to the HSTV-L
Btw, I'd estimate that Spookston moves more clear, comprehensible info with his calm, rapid, yet emphatic delivery than most, even well informed narrators could, taking 50% more time.
These are great, keep the design and future tech videos coming!
Could be worth exploring for "full sized" guns such as 120mm or the upcoming 130mm tank guns
It's worth noting that often new technologies are not adopted because they aren't enough of an improvement over known quantities in order to justify the investment in fully developing the technology.
Though, what makes it more practical? I can imagine a slower rate of fire one of these on an Abrams, to save ammo expenditure, barrel life, accuracy, and maybe a larger round if needed. But there always needs to be a back up if one of them fails to cycle properly or breaks down. Can it be manually loaded or repaired quickly? If not, the army, navy, or air force don't want it if it can't perform in its primary function or have a secondary property of use.
Yeah, if it can't have a backup manual loading feature, it's possible the US military might shy away from it.
Our friends (Brits, French, Germans, and Japanese.) on the other hand...
I would love to see one of these videos on ram jet shells
So 400mm penetration irl, and 270 in game? Sounds legit
i'm not sure you really need the immersion in the propellant, the cylindric case seems to be the main benefit since it allows for the push through feed system. a conventional 90mm cartridge but cylindric and with the projectile sunk into the case like that nagant revolver cartridge could give you the benefits of both.
I know I am commenting on an 7 month old video, but i'm curious if you can use CTA for ETC cannons, or are they very much fundamentally at odds with one another?
It seems possible, but it seems equally possible that the kinds of propellants used for ETC guns might not have the correct performance characteristics to launch a nested round since they often burn quickly. They do burn more evenly, though, which could be a desirable trait. I think using a plasma igniter might at least be useful for getting consistent ignition even you don’t use an advanced propellent.
1:23 Literally Kraut Space Magic Aka G11.
"If the CTA is so good why is it only surfacing now? well it actually has alot of problems.. _so why is it surfacing now?"_
I believe Ian McCollum AKA Gun Jesus did a thing on attempts to make bullets like this, some even with multiple bullets. I forget the specifics, but I think the problem was with reliability being very poor.
maan this mechanicus soundtrack behind is terrifying me :D
3:11 "Stryker"
Also, main reason is that even China has functional CTA guns.
Im not normally a gun guy but this was pretty fascinating
This reminds me of Vietnam War Era rocket boats, the rounds looked like the shell and casing were wielded together.
Th launcher was a twin tube system and rounds were feed into an elevator, as they reached the tube they would turn straight up to load the round.
Please make more videos like this one, i want to see more futuristic military technology
On the subject of guns, I’ve spent some time conceptualizing a 183mm HVG ( High Velocity Gun). My thinking is that the L4 183mm had unmatched destruction potential, even to this day, among tank cannons. My biggest problem was shell size, and the only way to get a suitable reload was to slap a humongous auto loading mechanism. I wonder if CTA ammunition could solve the weight problem, though I’m not sure about a swing-breech mechanism. Also ammo would be APFSDS and HEATFS.
consider a (modified) autoloader inspired by the swedish Delat Torn turret (have magazines next to and under the gun, with arms to then transfer the shells to behind and then into the breech.
So, technically, a russian 7.62 mm Nagant revolver from 1890s uses a CTA ammo, judging from the fact that the bullet is fully inside the case?
You are technically right.
CTA Cannons: I’m not like other conventional propulsion cannons!
I read: "GTA guns" and thought you were going to talk about the tanks of the new GTA V's several DLCs
They are the real life equivalent to Ultra Autocanons from MechWarrior universe
Return of the light tank is what I’m hearing... which also means return of the blitzkrieg
I think you'll agree with me on this one spook, even if the gun needs to pound a target to pen it, the fact it's a machine cannon would terrify opposition. Mount it to a light skirmish like vehicle, or heaven forbid have a HE lobbing dedicated infantry slapper. You'd not need to do much to the enemy to make them run in absolute terror.
I think it should have be put into service, but 75mm HE, 40mm yeah it goes pop, but 75mm HE-F? That's how you delete infantry with very low collateral
well depends on the enemy. Terrorists and local enemy Militia or conscript troops yes for sure. enemy light armoured and soft skinned vehicles or some old medium tanks or MBTs possibly. Modern MBTs and well trained enemy troops not so much more of a very frustrating road bump for their offense against a defender with such tech.
not saying it isn't a threat but it comes down to the competence and gear your enemy as to counter such weapon system with. If you have competent adversary that knows how to use similar advance tech they aren't gonna give up so easily as some incompetent and low tech conscript army of less developed nation.
@@yagdtigercommander but you forget the most important thing, reputation and natiobal culture, a proper british soldier will never retreat unless it's to lure, a russian will run if you put up enough fight, france ran away before the war began
@@osmacar5331 well yes and no times have changed we don't know for sure how any one soldier would react now. France today isn't the same france as it was. Nations to learn lessons from war to be better prepared in the future. War is hell and I cant speak for soldiers involved. But some have done some pretty incredible shit against all odds.
@@yagdtigercommander militaries are very often traditional, and don't change often in who they are, when they do, minor, also france is an extremely left country, do i need to mention the film currently undergoing a rightful shit storm
Okay whatever.
Nice Jazz at the ending (love that game lol)
Woo, CTAS40!
That things so cool.
Man I really like these cannon videos, so interesting
Oh boy a future tank weaponry video
Spookton, Ajax is not a IFV, it is (apparently) a scout vehicle. warrior is being being upgraded with said CT40 cannon
CTA is a really interesting technology but i'm not sure if it would be ETC compatible. The CTA for small arms i've for small arms all use plastic cases but i don't know if the same goes for cannons.
Everybody's gangsta till they hear the RATATATATATATATATATAT
But you don't actually hear it cause you're now deaf
I like the design of tanks and the engineering feats of them, but it also comes to the caveat of fueling unjust wars on the bases of privet interest. Like in the case of many of the US's wars. Idk, I think that the research and resources could go to better projects, like things that would better my life. Liked the video tho.
Agree and disagree with you here. Agreed that research projects that much more benefits humanity could need more funding disagreed that researching these things just to fuel unjust war. For example, the technology in building the V1 and V2 by the Germans was used in Space rockets, Nuclear bombs turned into nuclear plants, the Internet used to be solely a spying tool, etc...
"Idk, I think that the research and resources could go to better projects, like things that would better my life."
You do have to keep in mind, much of American's quality of life, comes from America's holding the position at top. Forcing the world to use the Petrol-dollar has huge impacts on trade, which benefits the economy, which benefits the quality of life.
The US does not go to war for "oil", it goes to war when someone tries selling it in something other than dollars. Is this morally right? No. Should it be done? Probably not. But does it better your life? Yes.
@@manhphuc4335 I do see what you mean, but I don’t think we need war to fuel scientific innovations. I think we just need a higher quality of education and living standards worldwide. All of the innovations were made by people with college education levels(most of them worked in education/went to college).
@@josephburchanowski4636 It does betters my life, but the people in the countries are suffering. The conflict in the Middle East has killed over 500,000 civilians/Middle Easterns (counting Syria,Iraq, and Yemen.)
America and all the other first world country being the top positions holding everyone else down doesn’t help anyone besides the ones that are born in wealth in these countries.
If you think that your quality of life should be determined based on where you are born, I just can’t agree with u.
During this current system someone(country) always has to be below to make cheap products. The average income of the wealthiest counties are 3-8 times more wealthy than the poorest countries.
I believe that my quality of live should not come to the expense of someone’s else.
@@spaceboy5412 "If you think that your quality of life should be determined based on where you are born,"
I don't agree with it; but I am not surprised that countries will act in their own self interest. If not the US, another country will try taking the position.
"During this current system someone(country) always has to be below to make cheap products."
I am no neoliberal; and I don't support keeping a country poor so they can produce cheap products. Even outside of moral reasons, I see it as a negative in the long term. If you keep people poor to produce something cheaply; their productivity is going to be in the dirt. If they instead gained human capital, they could produce more and higher quality goods and services, than if they were kept poor.
Kurzgesagt made a good video on this: "A Selfish Argument for Making the World a Better Place - Egoistic Altruism"
Anyways; I am not a neoliberal as I view it is important for small undeveloped countries to sometimes put steep tarrifs and similar on foreign products. Specifically farm goods when the country's economy is agrarian based. If you leave in cheap mechanized farming food come in, it will out-compete all of your farmers; creating a large increase in unemployment and most of these farmers won't be able to find new jobs. The result is large social unrest and an even worse economy.
As for US policy, I am 100% for increasing Foreign Aid spending; and I think a primary consideration is to find the most efficient way to increase human capital across the globe. Although super automation that I think will occur within the next 40 years, might put a wrench into things and could even upturn developed countries. I am going to stop this here before I start ranting about automation and AGI.
Now imagine an 155mm artilery with a CTA cannon...
I'd like to see more on the casing and projectile . Something is very weird about this .
I wonder could you use ETC gun technology with CTA?
I wonder too
Spook really do be playing war thunder like it's cod.
Material science has jumped leaps and bounds
That’s why it’s probably peaked interest, required service lifetime is a killer for applying new technology’s - which typically don’t or can’t last the time
Honestly I saw CTA cannons and was thinking the Chicago Transportation Authority made a gun.
I look at those rounds and think of the Nagant pistol
You forgot to mention the R-23M which also used telescopic ammo and was launched onboard a Russian space station. It was fired remotely, successfully too. Of course, it was derived from the R-23 which was mounted in the tail turret of the Tu-22 Blinder.
Spook, do you have any tips in playing the 105 M1s half upgraded (HEAT shell only)?
Haven't touch my M1 & M1IP because how unbearable the grind are
The french Jaguar EBRC is the first platform using CTA to enter service
Your tank cannon go boom. Mine goes TAKATAKATAKATAKA
A VBCI 2 or an AJAX would be interesting ngl.
Spookston im waiting for that decal :)
So early the notification showed up half way through the video
I think a case-less type of ammo would be more interesting and if it were to be combined with cased telescoped type of ammo as well
So it's a large-bore G11?
I can dig it.
Nice run down. FYI "anti air defense" is really SEAD (suppression of enemy air defense). What you're referring to is air defense: defense against aircraft.
RAVEN guns:'hey hey"
Basically it makes your tank blows the hot load really quick.
Looks like Kraut Space Magic 😃
Swing breach goes woosh
I read the title as GTA cannons and thought it was a theory video for gta 5, I’m smart
What if we just use a litteral arm powerd by conventional propellant or even magnets to litterally just yeet the porjctile like that one space weel concept thing that never went anywhere. If u put a bunch of powder at the base of the stick it would probably save space as there is no giant barel and because how levers work ur still throwing that projectile hella fast and if its enclosed until the shell leaves the arm I can really see this getting a rediculs amount of velocity. It would just want to tumble in the air tho witch obviously doesn't help with ballistics but I mean it removes the giant barel and still yeets stuff. It also possibly could use pretty much any ammunition type depending on how its built so it's a two steps in a random direction with one step back.
This is cool
The AJAX is replacing CR2. It’s already on trials and it’s hard to see how it’s cannon WONT come to something
Father Spook is helping me be not bored while I eat Burger King.
Rapidfire darts OH GOD
So many good ideas snuffed out because it can't crack T-72s from the front. Completely ignoring the wide array of things that were NOT frontally facing T-72 that need to have holes put into them.
With that sort of logic, it's a miracle that Infantry rifles weren't phased out completely and replaced with TOWs. *Sarcasam*
That would be so cool if the AJAX has one. Didn't the Warrior get an uprated cannon that's also going on the AJAX though?
I would like to know how this gun compares to the new Northrop xm913 50mm chain gun.
Good question.
Wait, this can also be used with the plasma thing... 😱😱😱👍👍👍
This Is cool
The COMVAT was one of the CTA gun designs on a Bradley hull right? Fav looking Bradley hands down!
So many ground forces are getting ridnof their Main Battle Tanks from the USMC and the Royal Army.
I thought this said GTA cannons and sat through 5 minutes that I thought was background info.
The CTA has been an absolute failure of the 12 Ajax vehicles delivered to the British army by end of 2020 (3 years late) 7 have been destroyed by CTA cannon misfiring and detonating the entire magazine leading to the cancellation of the Warrior upgrade program, the cancellation of future Ajax vehicles and the return to the Boxer program with a 30mm Mk44 Bushmaster II cannon from the 1970's!
Thats cool but what ever happened to the Metal Storm weapons?
Are you going to make more future gun videos?
I really like them.
Would it be possible to combine CTA cannon technology with that of an ETC gun?
i was unsubscribed but notifications stayed on weird re-subd
French Jaguar is using a 40mm CTA gun
The CTA was used by the japanese during the pacific war and they've also used reverse swept wing on their ki's
KRAUT SPACE MAGIIIIIIIIIIC
played alot of barotrauma recently and was wondering, are there any advantages to using a coilgun vs a typical machinegun on a tank or ship
If ww3 breaks out, it will be a fight between countries for getting spookston as their combat vehicles designer
From what ive heard through the shit pipe theres still alot of problems with ajax and its not near to entering service. There army doesnt know how its going to implement ajax once we get it too as its too large for a recce vehicle and we already have warrior for armoured infantry so its quite a redundant vehicle already!
I would install 2 of these on a single tank for shit and giggles