Test and try: How many broken breadbins do we have today?
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- On today's Test and Try episode, we have three mystery Commodore machines which were given to me. Let's test them out to see which will need repairs and which work? I went into this assuming that all 3 machines were dead...
-- Video Links
VIC-20 Diagnostic Harness:
github.com/sve...
C64 diagnostic harness:
github.com/sve...
Adrian's Digital Basement Merch store:
my-store-c82bd...
Support the channel on Patreon:
/ adriansdigitalbasement
Adrian's Digital Basement (Main Channel)
/ @adriansdigitalbasement
-- Tools
Deoxit D5:
amzn.to/2VvOKy1
store.caig.com/...
O-Ring Pick Set: (I use these to lift chips off boards)
amzn.to/3a9x54J
Elenco Electronics LP-560 Logic Probe:
amzn.to/2VrT5lW
Hakko FR301 Desoldering Iron:
amzn.to/2ye6xC0
Rigol DS1054Z Four Channel Oscilloscope:
www.rigolna.co...
Head Worn Magnifying Goggles / Dual Lens Flip-In Head Magnifier:
amzn.to/3adRbuy
TL866II Plus Chip Tester and EPROM programmer: (The MiniPro)
amzn.to/2wG4tlP
www.aliexpress...
TS100 Soldering Iron:
amzn.to/2K36dJ5
www.ebay.com/i...
EEVBlog 121GW Multimeter:
www.eevblog.co...
DSLogic Basic Logic Analyzer:
amzn.to/2RDSDQw
www.ebay.com/i...
Magnetic Screw Holder:
amzn.to/3b8LOhG
www.harborfrei...
Universal ZIP sockets: (clones, used on my ZIF-64 test machine)
www.ebay.com/i...
RetroTink 2X Upconverter: (to hook up something like a C64 to HDMI)
www.retrotink.com/
Plato (Clone) Side Cutters: (order five)
www.ebay.com/i...
Heat Sinks:
www.aliexpress...
Little squeezy bottles: (available elsewhere too)
amzn.to/3b8LOOI
--- Links
My GitHub repository:
github.com/mis...
Commodore Computer Club / Vancouver, WA - Portland, OR - PDX Commodore Users Group
www.commodorec...
--- Instructional videos
My video on damage-free chip removal:
• How to remove chips wi...
--- Music
Intro music and other tracks by:
Nathan Divino
@itsnathandivino
It was ME!!! I sent you the diag cart/harness. You're welcome! 😁
HAHA!!!!!! That is awesome! Well I really do love it. What should I write down on it for next time?
@@adriansdigitalbasement2 just "Todd" is fine. I'm just glad you're getting some use out of it.
That was a nice looking setup. One of the best diag setups I have seen.
The penny at 4:53 refreshed some sadness for me. I let my sister use my CoCo2 when I moved off to college in the '90s. My toddler nephew decided the slots on the top of the machine looked like a piggybank, and my sister turned it on without realizing it had coins inside. When it made a loud zap and didn't power up, she threw the whole thing out, including the floppy disk drive, without even calling me!
Oh no!! And it surely would have been OK, as it probably just blew the fuse on the power supply which is integral to the inside of the unit. Probably an easy fix. :-(
That is a true bummer! That makes me sad and it wasn't even my computer loss, but a loss to the future.
That's horrible
Ya got it back?
My condolences on the untimely passing of your sister.
I've never owned a C64 - haven't even seen one in person, but I _have_ apparently seen enough of these videos that I immediately thought "oh, that's not quite right" when the simple SID test played during the investigation of the last machine.
I once tested the VICs in a dozen loose boards by swapping them, like Adrian does here.
EVERY SINGLE VIC chip, in the same machine, gave slightly different color shades.
I guess that's why those variable resisters are on there?
Ha that is funny! I don't think I ever really noticed the huge variation from one VIC-20 to another. I must admit, I really do tend to use the C64 more so perhaps I guess I never noticed!
Adrian, watching you repair computers inspired me to fix one myself. I was so proud. Watching your videos taught me lessons. Thank you!
it could just be a SID revision. It sounds perfectly fine to me. Different revisions sound different.
The extra button is the self-destruct just in case it falls into the hands of the Klingons. 🤣
Oh wow. I know there are only a few people in this world that get excited about finding a random coin, but I am one. Why?
There are coins that are worth much more than face value. Always worth a quick look.
Love this channel for the retro computing
The ViC chips can be a different hue from one to another or with age. You can just adjust the variable resistor to get the colors corrected.
I don't know the VIC very well but the schematics seem to show that the pot is for adjusting the video output level and that the variable capacitor (C48) adjusts the VIC clock input. Does anyone know for certain what is going on here or is it just NTSC being rubbish?
Check the 12V regulator when SID's act up like that. They're a bit picky. Recently fixed a Catweasel4 with bad SID sound. 12V line was all down to about 11V.
Yes, bad SID can cause black screen issues.
13:00 - it's almost as if that VIC chip was built with part of the C64's palette!
Every time you say “nice crack” I think about Steve saying “nice hiss”, haha
Marginal SID chips like that just need to be given to someone who never had a C64 before 😜
Already done, the whole machine :-)
From my experience switching VIC ICs on VIC 20's would render different colors. You would need to adjust one of the pots on the VIC area to get the color to the correct value.
That was my first thought, especially since there was a pot right there.
The VIC20 style with the 5VDC/9VAC supply had its own power bricks that were not strong enough to run a C64 but ran a high risk of burning the regulator out and causing further damage. The C64 brick was improved on that and is safe on the VIC.
Another thing is the C128 power brick which has a similar plug to the Amiga - NEITHER is compatible with the other computer.
I would Love to have another commodore 64. I learned basic and me and a friend created a learning program for kids. And my first child learned a lot from it. She skipped kindergarten, and went straight into 1st grade. And she did very well in that class. She could have been moved up more. But we were worried about her size compared to other children in the grade. So we stopped a 1st grade. Her teacher told us, she did very well on all her test. She never made less that A+. I would love to start programing again.
The wonky SID (and its even wonkier siblings) might be useful to a chiptune musician who wants a somewhat different sound than the standard SID chip. Maybe even a few SIDs you consider dead could be used for that.
I have a 6581r1 from my original breadbin that has filters which totally suck the bass out of some songs. I got it in the late 80s and was disappointed that it sounded different than my friend's 64C. Over a decade later I blew out the 6581r4 in my sidstation, replaced it with my r1, and while it won't easily do squelchy resonant basses (like the one in 8bdp / donkey kong), the breakup at the cutoff point is very unique and useful to me. I haven't checked on a spectrum analyzer, but I suspect that there's a ton less self-resonance on the filters, and the filters themselves seem sharper. All the filters behave the same way, and there's no dead voices, so I can only assume it's a manufacturing variation that some of the early chips had.
Adrian, i'm a new sub , somehow your channel has evaded me until last week and i gotta say , your videos and the way you present them are very likable. Keep them coming!!
Please note: this is the second (non-main) channel.
That last breadbin SID definitely sounds wonky. Your 8-bit dance party (DK) theme is burned into my brain as well, and it was IMMEDIATELY clear something was off.
Yeah it's odd, like I said I'm not sure a layperson would notice.... but yeah definitely it sounds odd. Since it was the one working machine, I've already given it away to someone in the local community, so it's now their issue to notice (or not notice!)
Sounds like the middle beats were muffled.
@@adriansdigitalbasement2 I think the filters went bad. One thing I have read on about SID chips is that the analog filters are the first thing to go. Unless somebody has the original chip die it'll be hard to replicate.
Ohhh, a pile of C64's in the corner eh ? Hope that means we get a repair video soon :) While you've covered them before, there is always something interesting and educational about the way you troubleshoot and repair them, always look forward to it.
thats really cool that you give them away to members of the local community Adrian
If you were in Canada, you would buy a 6/49 ticket with that third machine! 🤣
I don't think the lottery places take old comodores in trade for tickets...
@@gorak9000 It didn't come out as intended, as usual with me! 🤭 They just bombard us with those commercials here: With your luck: You should buy a 6/49!
@@wastelandwanderer3883 You still watch TV? Like actually on TV with commercials and crap? I'm so sorry... that and the fact that Canada only has like 8 different commercials in total - The Brick, Leons, like 4 different commercials for soap, and President's Choice - gets a bit much and very repetitive... you usually see the same commercial twice in one break!
@@gorak9000 Tells you how old I am, just reached the sixties actually. They say "sexagénaire" in french, but I don't know where they got that from, because the first part is far from the truth, quite the opposite. 🙄
Now that you mention it Adrian, I would really love a C64 and I'm about a 2 hour drive from Portland.
Perhaps they replaced the original long board that had failed with a working short board. That would explain why the case does not look right for a short board computer. Years ago you could buy surplus short boards for a few dollars.
Hi Adrian! Hey, I just wanted to pass a but of trivia on to you. I read somewhere that Commodore’s color designations for the VIC-20 were: Ivory (case), Chocolate (main keycaps) and Mustard (function keys). The funny thing about the function keys is that my dad and I always thought that they looked more like peanut butter, so my dad referred to the function keys as “peanut butter keys” for decades afterward. Love your channels! Keep at it!
For the first machine the Vic 20, I suspect that those may even be simply dealer spare parts that someone had acquired or perhaps they worked as a dealer or a bench Tech and just have to spare case shell keyboard and a short main board that's why they do not match.
This is very very likely, the reason they are so pristine they're simply New Old Stock parts that someone had floating around.
You could do a 24 hour C64 repair marathon livestream and I'd watch every minute. 🙂
Or 64 hours...
Looks like some of the pins you were probing on the CPU are the I/O for the datasette, so the results there may be correct. Although there was a MOS logic IC in there, I'm going to guess bad Kernal rom
I didn't see the white line. Bad VIC-II?
My grandmother had the same exact towel that you have draped over the back of your chair; it must be from the 1960s!
Noticing some leakage/corrosion on some components around the signetics PLA on the red button breadbin
was going to say the same thing - looks like the electrolyte leaked out of that cap by the PLA and slightly corroded some pins of some other components in that area, but it's also not filtering that power rail correctly anymore too
"That could have thrown someone for a loop if they aren't too familiar Vic-20s"...
That reminds me of a computerized chess game I got on e-bay (had one growing up). It was one of those Tandy Chess computers / boards.
Not touch sensitive, it has a little keypad and you enter your moves on that and it has a 1 line LCD...
Got it as broken... No manual...
It showed up, I tried it and when I turned it on, it just had these half height characters...
I was thinking... LCD problem??? Took it apart and the connections looked good and the LCD appeared fine visually...
Then I started to remember something... Hmmm... Maybe...
And I tried to start a game. And BAM it worked...
Yep, it was working all along, it just always starts with these funny half height characters...
If they would have had the manual, they would have known that, and it probably would have cost more. ;-)
On the LEDs, as long as the clip itself properly retains the LED, I really don’t think you need that ring. It’s mainly insurance against the LED getting pushed back through the hole.
"Why a penny? Did you stick a penny in there? If I find a penny in there, I'm taking you down!"
A theory regarding the box 'o parts: Someone took it apart (for whatever reason) and didn't know how to put it back together correctly, so they just gave up.
This was very nearly me the first time I had to open my C128 up to fix something. I got it, but it sat on my bench for a few days before I buckled down and finished it.
Another enjoyable video. Nice to see that not everything was broken.
Hi, Adrian. Thank you for another great video. I loved it. Stay safe to you and your loved ones.
It's really great to know that you've retired from your job at large and are now doing this full time for both channels (God forbid an imposter with identical DNA started a 3rd channel!!!). Really great to hear you've come so far, I hope you can enjoy this new career for the rest of your days!!
"Adrian's Home for Wayward Commodores". ;)
25:59 Regarding the beeadbin with the red button, I have a machine of a similar vintage, also with a black screen and a very hot SID. Once the SID was removed the board would start, so maybe this is the problem with yours.
Maybe they took the VIC 20 apart because of the penny
Haha, but left it in there when they realized it was some valuable coin :-)
As for the dissasembled but working VIC20. Perhaps someone replaced it with a better computer and decided it would be fun to see what was inside of the old one. But then never bothered to reassemble it since it was no longer in use anyway.
GOOD LUCK with going full time with RUclips.
I have a SID that sounds similar and passes voice/filter test just like that one. Maybe it's revision specific sound.
Hi Adriane. I grew up with a C64 and taught myself how to program and it sent me on my way to become a computer programmer. It was and still is my favorite computer. I know you have repaired dozens and dozens of C64's. I also know you donate them locally. I really wish you would have a list of the ones you are giving away (with motherboard revision, chip revisions, s-video output or not, etc...), and your viewers could choose which ones they wanted. I would be more than happy to pay for shipping. I just don't have the money I used to, so I can't afford to buy one from someone. Please consider this, because I know, as well as you do, that you have many subscribers that feel the same way. Thank you for running such a great channel.
If anyone else feels the same way I do, please give this post a thumbs up so Adrian knows what the interest is.
At the end he says he doesn't have the time to carefully ship them even if people pay the shipping. So ask the community to get him an unpaid intern as he said and maybe your wish can come true, but even then he might not be able to work that into it. Life is busy, after all.
If I lived in his area I would gladly work for free shipping them out.
I wonder if "tight inputs" wasn't a reference to the keyboard being gummed up with long since tasty morsels of crumbs various in nature trapped under the keycaps.
I today inherited a Toshiba Regza TV that used to be an "always on" display at my old job that apparently had 2 dead horizontal columns dead LCD.
I accepted it as for an outside TV for mostly News & Sports it was good for free (powered chord is a regular 240VAC IEC lead).
I opened it up to clean out the roaches and related droppings w/ 97% iso + PCB contact cleaner in RF & HDMI ports.
After reassembly the screen is restored, no dead lines.
I finally understood what that PVC tape label on the back of the TV meant in context!
"Check for dropping / fault".
I thought it referred to the unit being physically dropped or dropped processing. Turns out likely was "roach droppings" ... let me have my win.
it looks periwinkle. which is what i remember my Vic 20 being.
Yay! Some Commodore Stuff! -Mark.
Re: modifications to "zif64" case. I wonder if that's how the first prototypes for the C64 were made (chopping up VIC20 cases)?
My memory is faint, but I think I was 6 or 7 when in 89 or 90 i got a C64. From Austria, so mine was one of those manufactured in "Germany (West)", the newer models. (We call it C64-II, but it is a C64C). And for YEARS I did not get the few magazines that I got my hand on nick named it "brown bread bin" (brauner Brotkasten), since mine was the later version that looked quite cool and had the silvery look (actually just a lighter beige), until I visited my cousin, who not only had loader cartridges (whoaaa!) but a brown bread bin C64 monstrosity.
I bought a Vic 20 in 1983.😀
My guess for the first one. They god a brand new shining c64 and wanted to see what's inside the old vic. Planning to put it back together and sell when they get to it. And never put something away until you get to it because decades later some youtuber will find out that you never did.
Saw a bit of oxidation above the PLA on the second machine. Maybe corroded traces? Looking forward to the repair video ;)
Yup, R38 at about 22:20.
Somethings strainge seems to happen to Commodore 64's.I have 3 bread bin machines.. early 83/84. All were working well, when they were put into storage. then i taken them out to test after seeing repair videos online. Surprise, surprise, they all now have the Black screen of death. I have double checked the power supply to see if it was the culprit, power suply is working correctly. Its like the C64 self distructs over time.
Perhaps that penny in the VIC-20 was jammed in under some IC leads under the PCB.
I bet you’d be able to find someone around local who would love to be paid in loot for shipping other loot. 🤩
"only for the local community" : there's an option for this : to move, from time to time ;oD
my vic 20 has the plain label like that one but with the 2 prong power socket.
I'm pretty sure that's a normal issue between the early Vic 2 chips and the later revisions: the early ones had a particularly bad, or washed out video, particularly over RF modulation.
Is that person you are sending the chip to by any chance Mr Doornbos..? He is working on a VIC replacement...
Around Portland??? Ayo I'll take one!
I'm pretty sure that the Black Screen C64 is going to be the Character ROM. You can tell because its not socketed! 🤓
Now this is exactly the video I was looking for to accompany my evening chicken :)
Maybe the penny was shorting something out on the VIC?
Heh well it's one good thing about the RF shield on the bottom, it would prevent such a thing.
WHAT YEAR WAS THE PENNY IT'S IMPORTANT
I'd love to see your repair piles tbh. Is it like a giant tower of broken machines?
I had one of the predecessors, The Commodore PET.
try a zip tie instead of the crappy plastic ring on the led
Never press the Red button.
😝
some youtubers say replace all caps even if not bad because they all go bad at some point. I heard some youtubers say that about old tech
Great job, great video!
In my XT days I used a momentary push button and a serial port with a TSR program to capture video screens from within games. My patch for when games had the other input devices. Could the button have been for that?
@22:34 why are there yellow dots on all the chips? Quality control at the Commodore factory or something else?
I know it's much to ask, but you've said on a number of occasions that the SID is not quite right and you can intuitively feel it, so was wondering if you could do a benchmark recording of a known good one and use it as a short side by side comparison when saying this, just so that the rest of us get to join in on how that feels.
On that first 64 I'd bet $10 on the MOS version of the 7406. Also I didn't notice the vertical white line on the left of the screen that the VIC always shows, maybe your capture window is just shifted a bit but if not the VIC may not be running?
Like and comment. Great luck on your new carrer path.
I'd check the filter caps or put that marginal SID in another machine to test.
About the second one. My money is on the corrosion seen @21:30
Is the key layout of the VIC-20 the same as the C64?
Nice shirt! 😊
Some advice on a replacement 6502 for my vic20, any recommendations. John
Hey Adrian! Do you have any plans for upgrading your production pipeline to 4k?? Thanks for all of your hard work!
I bought a VIC-20 in 1981.
Took it back the next day for a refund. Couldn't do anything with it unless I bought a crap load of accessories.
Went with Apple II and then the IBM PC. I was 20 and studying engineering. Didn't care much for video games at that age.
So the ZIF64 just runs as a VIC20 with those donor chips??
I've just come to see what the button is for.
Hello Adrian! Would you be kind enough to give me a way to have all those SID tunes you played here? I am fanatic about 'em, specially the ALTERN 1, but I can't find it anywhere!
search for "hvsc", the high voltage sid collection.
Why did you keep calling that ZIF20 board a ZIF64 board??
0:14 A button, must have been a VI user, can't use VI without Escape
Seems that this batch mostly just complied and worked, because we all know, resistance is futile, as that one 64 showed... :P
If that play is programmed after the fact, can it be read to get the logic within?
If someone would send you the funds to cover the posrage and the cost of mailing supplies, would you mail a c=128 to the east cost?
I wonder how many moulds Commodore had for making C64 (and VIC-20) cases.
Is that just for the breadbins, or are you including the later "wedge" style cases?
@@horusfalcon Both I guess. One C64C mould has been found.
Since one of the ROMs is not socketed, it'll be that one just to be a PITA.
Is that a Zif VIC-20?
the sound seemed to be very distorted on the last console
maybe the spare VIC 1(?) on the ZIF20 is in C64 muddy color mode, or is really a VIC2 ? only joking
What do you with ones you fixed? Do you ever sell any of them?
you clearly didn't watch the whole video...
someone should rebuild a C64 point-to-point (w/o a circuit board)...
...so long as "someone" isn't me. ;)
3rd one is going be that moss chip is died for fact because it play game with you and make you think it working but nope it just drop out like fly on the table
😊😊great
But what was the year on that penny?
Exactly! That date was important for the history of the machine. 😀