Mitsubishi X-850 digital 32-track reel to reel tape recorder
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- a digital reel-to-reel 32-track recorder made in 1987. 44.1 or 48khz at 16-bit on expensive 1" tape, which is why nobody uses these anymore. The tape transport is based on the Otari MTR-90, which does not use a pinch roller.. the capstan is simply a rubber roller that holds the tape with friction using carefully controlled tape tension.
Note: If you ended up here from an ebay or craigslist ad with the poorly-worded "see the x850 in action" followed by the YT link for this video, please don't be confused, this machine is NOT owned by Kingston Records. I do not have this machine listed for sale, though I'd consider passing it on as it does not see use.
This is a fully-optioned unit that has the meter bridge (not connected in this video, though it works), emphasis control, and SSL console interface. This was purchased new and used for it's entire working lifetime (~10 years) at Harpo studios to record audio for The Oprah Winfrey Show - I imagine only as a safety backup if the live mix was fouled, so it never saw "hard" studio use. Masters were not kept; the tapes were re-used dozens of times - several of them are still with the machine.
The custom-engraved emblem on the front edge of the unit has a cut-away ceramic chip on the left side, and says "The 150th Commemorative Model X-850 Serial # XXXXXX Mitsubishi Electric Co. Japan" on the right side.
What memories. I was in the first seminar in Nashville when Mitsubishi introduced the X-850 to Music City - along with the X-86 two track mastering deck.
I still have the full manuals for them with all the schematics. In the room were all the leading engineers from Bullet (the original), Emerald and even Middle Ear down in Miami ... I was the only digital guy in the room and it was fun watching all the bugging eyeballs and gaping mouths.
Especially when the guy took a hole puncher and randomly went up and down for about 6 feet of tape punching holes - then playing back the recording as the error LEDs lit up like the 4th of July but the music was perfectly corrected ... you could hear the snaps as the tape with holes like Swiss cheese went by.
I was in heaven as I was the only guy with digital systems experience there. Made some great friends during that time. And the big party on the last day was quite exquisite. To top it all off, their rep for Nashville (Allan) had one of the first cell phones available in his car. Built in - so that should show how far we've come.
Thanks for the video - it's priceless to me to see!
Electron Magazine punching holes in DASH tape was stupid then and is still stupid now.
32 tracks over 1 inch Prodigi tape at 30 ips over stationary heads. The X-850 came out in 1985 for $156 000 USD. It was the king of the digital world. Studios would buy 2 of them for 64 tracks combined. In 1988 Sony brought out the DASH 3348 and killed the competition. That is 48 tracks of 16/48 over half inch DASH tape running at 30 ips over stationary heads. The 3348 went for $250 000 USD. Still a lot cheaper than 2, X-850's for $312 000 USD.
The X-850 recorded at 16 bit. And a sample rate of 44.1 khz or 48 khz.
High definition DASH and Prodigi multitracks didn't come out until the early 1990's. The Sony DASH 3348 HR recorded at 24 bit / 44.1 or 48 khz. Also $250 000 USD.
Awesome info, thank you.
I maintained these machines for Jacob's and Wessex Studios at different times, for a total of about 6 years. I loved them.
I spent a whole night at Wessex Studios getting rid of clicks from the first 8 tracks of the one of the masters of the Spirit of Eden album (Talk Talk). They dropped in on track 5 and suddenly all the first 8 tracks were clicking. It took me a while to suss that the p and q tracks were wrong. I switched them off and bounced (using the ping-pong panel on the machine) the audio to spare tracks across the machine, then switch them back on and bounced all 8 back. It worked - and I got Mitsubishi to replace one of the codec cards the next day (memory chip fault).
When Phil came in, was he grateful? Not a bit. By then I had my arm down a shitty toilet retrieving a bog roll.
But he didn't know. That's how maintenance work goes. You're always best appreciated when never seen.
By the way, Phil Brown's book "Are we Still Rolling" is brilliant ( the photograph on the front of the book is him at the SSL 4000 in Wessex Studio 1). www.amazon.co.uk/Are-We-Still-Rolling-Recording/dp/0977990311
And not just because I get a mention.
Ive got one of the remaining few working X-850 machines left. I offer a tape transfer to WAV files service for $150.00 per reel. If you have important tapes, get it while you can as these tapes and machines are deteriorating quickly. I do many transfers for
major labels and artists.
Great video. Would be cool though to see one playing back some representative piece of late 80s pop music.
OH MY GOD! Tons of circuit boards, connectors, parts.
It's an ENTIRE electronics store in one cabinet. That thing is awesome!
I can see why it cost so much and repairs had to run quite a bit too. How many of those units had to have their capacitors replaced...and how many caps did this thing have.
God, the schematics...holy shit. wow.
"I ended up here" in a search to what a Mitsubishi 850 Digital System looks like. :) The information is in the notes of a CBS CD by Sarah Vaughn and Milton Nascimento ' Brazilian Romance' from 1987. The recording session also used a Sony PCM 1630 System.
Technology changes and becomes obsolete, however but creating great musical recordings which create a legacy of from wonderful artists we have lost is definitely a definitive art.
Some of the equipment I repair these days is not of the recording equipment type but it does however produce music with digital sampled technologies of the 24bit 96Khz flavor. No end in sight...
awesome machine, i could imagine the pain to setting it up and aligning it would be, i heard these old digital machines are cold sounding, i just stick to analog but i have respect for these old machines!
If it was good enough for the Pet Shop Boys' Actually it was good enough for anything.
ill bet anything that that unit will get far superior quality sound than and cd player out there. nice find thx for sharing. id sooooooo kill for one of these:)
What an awesome machine... God we need to go back to Analog!
cartestride X-850 is digital not analog. But it can be easy to get confused. But the 32 tracks on 1 inch tape should have given it away. Analog 2 inch 32 track recorders were crap. And 32 tracks on 1 inch analog tape would be suicide. No analog 32 track on 1 inch tape exists. Analog was better but only at it's zenith.
An analog is great if you like.
1. Loss of top end with repeated use.
2. Any analog copy you make will be inferior to the original.
3. Loss of tracks for sych pulses
4. Cross talk
5. $150 for one 14 inch reel.
I could go on. Analog was and is still great but in most ways that counts digital is just superior.
so this model is the culprit of the best sounding music of the 80's ! i wonder how much was the cost of this ?
I believe it's 16-bit linear 44.1KHz.
wado1942 The X-850 recorded 32 Tracks of 24/96 on 1 inch tape. Unless this is the older model.
@@JohnMorris-ge6hq Correction. The X-850 was 16 bit. 44.1 or 48 khz. Later models could record in high definition but they wouldn't appear until the mid 1990's.
it wasnt because of the tape, these machines were incredibly expensive in the first place, and cheaper, better replacement machines quickly evolved. These machines i think were the fastest most expensive boat anchors ever made.. But I do love the drum sound on my Scorpions Love at first sting album, which was tracked on one of these!!
Back in 1985, $156 000 USD.
@ 3:00 ...I freaked for just a second....knowing that when you arm all 32 tracks at once, prepares the machine to reformat the tape.
That is a freakin damn shame... throwing away a 200k+ machine. they were the apex of electro-mechanical audio devices. So awesome. I would have flown to France or wherever just to have a chance to wrok on these machines. I repair studio/audio gear.
Open-reel recorders are amazing pieces of technology. not crap like others say
The 1988 Sony DASH 3348 was $250 000 USD in 1988. The X-850 was $156 000 USD back when it came out in 1985.
In retrospect a Sony PCM 1630 for mastering compact disks was $6200 USD back in 1990. And that is just including the converter and not the modified pro 3/4 inch video deck needed to record all your digital data.
It wasn't near a console when the video was shot, which these multitrack digital machines require for recording... and playing back 2 channels of what was on that tape would not have been interesting :)
That's the coolest thing I've seen in a long time! Just how much are the tapes?
I love how everything is on separate plug in cards for easy service.
Maxxarcade DASH FORMAT is dead sir. Dead as Disco (which I liked). They stop making DASH tape (1/4, 1/2, 1 and 2 inch formats in 2007). You can still by DASH tape from sellers on Ebay and such but it will eventually run out.
My Uncle's studio recently acquired two X-850s plus manual. $14 000 which included very expensive shipping fees, import duties, etc. They were hundreds of projects done with these beasts. Not for recording but for: backing up DASH multitracks, remixing songs, remixing songs in 5.1, Rock Band and Guitar Hero. A lot of Classic Rock and Pop were done on these. And record companies and their artists are willing to pay good money to transfer this dead format to Pro Tools.
Good luck finding one in good working order.
Bad news. They stop making DASH and Prodigi tapes on 2007. You Can still get 1/2 inch DASH tapes. But 1 and 1/2 (16 track) inch Prodigi tape is next to impossible to find. Those ADC are 36 years old!
Anybody know where I can get one of these now??
Hi, well altough I didn't remember I said that , it's true I did! Anyway, I think I kinda put my foot in my mouth when I said that becuase it can be interpreted different ways. I meant I would have liked to play around/learn how to service those machines instead of them being thrown away. I do not have any experience working with these machines nor any other digital recorder. I am an electronics tech in Canada. Iyour best bet is to find someone around Nashville (there's got to be someone).
didi you see a lots of power transistors in the linear heatsink?
Weren't there only a couple hundred of these things built?
we chucked two of these away..no one wanted them, and it was imposible to get the tape..shame
For what is AHA SEL CONNECTOR
there is not one in all of france that works, which doesn't say much but just so you know these babies where a headache to fix... very complex shit. They just thru out like 5 of these in the garbage like a year ago in a couple of studio here in Paris and the people who used to fix them like died or something....
so this machine was already victim of the bad philips sony red book era. those before had much higher resolution. fuck those 44.1 and 48khz limiation back then. and fuck them who decided to put us op with those crap analog stereo remix converted to digital cd conversion back in the 80s. They only fixed it in the late 90s and early 00 when SACD came around and they started digitally remastering their original multi track master tapes. They were so fucking lazy in the 80s to do it right. Damn it still makes me pissed off and its already 35 years ago they started that crap bullshit on us.
I have an Otari DTR-900, this is the same machine as the Mitsubishi X-850. The device still works perfectly. I am looking for the instruction manual. Who can help me. Thanks for reply
lol
this is a DIGITAL machine my friend. it appears analog to you because its using an open reel to reel digital tape-based system.
is it possible to store data on it?
I have some old tapes that I would like to have transfered to whatever can somebody help me, I'm in france!!! help!
at least.
What a sexy piece of machinery! What resolution does that record at?
16 bit. 44.1 or 48 khz. The X-850 came out in 1985 for $156 000 USD. No high definition foolishness in those days. And you had to buy 1 inch Prodigi tape. Way more expensive than 1 inch analog tape.
@@mossesandrade5969 Holy cow, 13 years later? :D I've read up on the digital open reels quite a bit since then. I guess Mits and Otari partnered up and this is basically an Otari MX-90 mkII transport.
Sorry.. just realized this is the digital tape model
Stephens, Otari and Tascam did make analog 2 inch 32 track recorders. In fact, John Stephens made a 2 inch 40 track recorder back in 1973. And the 40 track model sounded as good as the leading 24 track machines of the day. Wasn't cheap ($40 000 USD in 1973!) and you had to run the 40 track at 30 ips.
Thomas Roy Baker (Queen's engineer) synchronized 2 Stephens 40 track machines together for a total of 78 tracks. Note: 2 tracks are lost to sync pulses. And ONJ's John Farr also owned a 40 track machine.. The first Cars album was recorded to a 40 track Stephens tape machine.
MCI Came out with the infamous 3 inch 32 track prototype back in 1979. It ran only at 20 ips. Only problem is it didn't work. Not in the horizontal position anyway. It did work in the vertical position. The super wide 3 inch tape kept skewing over the heads. The only solution was to make the tape twice as thick. Now who is gonna pay for 14 inch reel of 3 inch tape that is twice as thick?
do you still have this machine?
Is it supposed to grind like that when handling the tape-heads?
Thats just the tape hitting the spool on the take up reel. Sometimes you can open them up to create a smoother tape path but in general like on this one it will not effect the recording quality. Its typical on all reel to reels.
Lancer
Dinosaur
What's the tape speed on this beast, 30 IPS?
+grumpybb I don't know what the actual tape speed is. Audio quality is not a function of tape speed with digital machines, and is therefore not adjustable.
Digital machines move tape at whatever speed is fast enough to safely
fit all the data, and were only around in the first place because hard
drives weren't large enough at the time.
+propcycle Yeah, I understand about digital and tape speed. I was just curious because those reels look like they're really hauling ass. I've got an Otari X-5050BII and at 15 IPS the reels don't spin nearly as fast.
Anybody know where I can get one of these now??