I appreciate the information and the help I have a j Port Bridgeport milling machine that was my father's at this time I've been looking for a Van Norman boring bar which is almost impossible to find but anyways I have the boring heads and things and the carbide tips I was just curious what was the RPM on the drive going down into the cylinder I believe I understood you to say the slower the better thanks anyways now I know I can do it I will practice with a bad cylinder that I have that has to have cylinder liners put into it just as I start out then I will do all of the cylinders that I have lined up now which is over 22 cylinders for old triumphs and bsa's
Hey, no sweat, I have ruined my share of cylinders, they were all mine and worn out. But practice is all I needed, now I bore several a year and have no problems if you follow procedures. The biggest of which is not to get distracted. You will be boring like a champ soon. Hang in there.
Great to watch Dale, I'm hoping that I can do similar with my mill in the future, once I've arranged a powered down feed or knee feed. Thanks for showing how it's done, I'm looking forward to the honing process. Best wishes, Dean.
Thanks Dean, yes the power feed is important for that proceedure. Is there a way to retrofit your machine for that. I had a china made machine prior to the bridgeport and it didnt have a way to do it. That was one of the reasons to seek out an old worn out bridgeport. Im very happy with this machine but I wish it was not so worn, you just have to deal with it.
@@montana2strokeracer Hi Dale, there are a number of people that have converted machines like mine, you can get a factory knee feed but not a quill down feed. You have get creative with a drive motor and toothed belts for that. Best wishes, Dean.
Good video, thanks. If you could, next time, show how the Allen wrench adjusted the bore diameter. Also, include the prior part where you check for vertical runout of the cylinder wall after clamping.
Hey Tom, I have done a bunch of these boring videos, I am sure I have shown the boring head adjustment, you just loosen the lock set screw, and adjust how many thousands to remove, and relock the set screw. I don't check anything after clamping, you check the cylinder at 6 places three to front and back, and 3 parallel to the pin, if it exceeds criteria for that machine, then you bore, I normally stop boring when the piston can be put in the cylinder upside down and goes in to the bottom of the piston pin, that leaves me .003 to .004 to hone to fit the piston at which time I also check for taper. This is two stroke, 4 stroke a bit different. You have to measure the top of the piston and the bottom of the piston. Most 2 strokes are 10 to 12 thousands different top to bottom. Four strokes are less.
For those that have never centered with a dial indicator, when you’re adjusting don’t move the table so that it reads as zero on the other side. You will just chase your tail swapping the distance that you are out side to side. You want to try and move HALF the distance that you are out. If you’re .010” off zero side for side, move .005” then zero the dial again and check side for side until it’s good. Another note, run the dial indicator at the top and bottom of the cylinder, it’ll save your butt.
Thanks Greg, are you getting some time on your lathe. They are alot of fun, but it is a learning thing. Try to get a mill a little bigger than you think you need. You can handle a bunch of jobs with both.
@@montana2strokeracer Still waiting on both. I got a 8x16 Lathe and the Mill is a Micro-Mark Mini LMill (DC Brushless, belt driven). Probably not the best stuff, but for what I'd do, probably work fine and I didn't want to spend too much, the Mill was $2k with auto-feed table and accessories, and couldn't find anything close by anywhere near that price. Dunno if I could fit a head on it, but I'll definitely try (got some old ones) when it gets here. And I have a TON to learn about both. So looking forward to more lathe and mill stuff from you. I hadn't ever considered either until I watched you.
Hi, thanks for sharing your knowledge with so many... I'm curious to know where you got your boring bar adapter tool from to allow you to bore deeply with the boring head?
Just came across this video fron You Tube recommendations. I've bored hundreds of cylinders in the past, depending on tip radius of tool, 0.004" / revolution would be about right to get a good finish particularly if your honing to finished size. When set up is within 0.005" I would have done a 0.003" cut if I wasn't used to machine and a 0.004" if I knew exactly how it was cutting. Sunnen makes some neat guided stones for honing two strokes that bridge the ports I worked in a Suzuki/Yamaha dealership in the 80's and also taught 'Machine Shop' at MMI Orlando (2002-2007) You should try a Harley 883 to 1200 conversion, 0.496" to come out (about a pound of cast iron from each cylinder 😁)
Hi thanks for your comments, I have never worked on a Harley, except for some of the Italian two strokes, but I can just imagine the amount of metal that comes from a conversion like that. I really like the stones I am using on this machine; I have tried and still have some of the ones with the aluminum scrapers, they work ok, but the scrapers tend to wear at a different rate than the stones. I prefer to hone without scrapers, many times on a portable hone I will use the scraper type, but I really prefer the bench mounted hone for these small two strokes. Sounds like you have a lot of experience with these machines, and I sure appreciate you sharing your knowledge, we are never too old to learn, and I sure have a lot of learning to do yet. Thanks again for hanging out in the shop with me.
@montana2strokeracer how do I find out what bikes you have for sale? I am interested in a 1970 to a 1972 suzuki TS 185 or a 250 model . Thanks in advance.
I got it from Mesa tool, lot of folks have asked about it. I am told they no longer make that one but do make a replacement. It is very strong, has little if any deflection. It fits in to two 1/2 inch pin holes of the criterion boring head. Mesatool.com I think. Thanks for stopping by the channel
I find that my mill doesn't have enough quill depth to clear the whole cylinder on the cylinders I've tried. I guess I could use the knee, but that sounds kinda tricky.
Hey Joe, mine is the same. I only have 5 inches of quill travel. It works fine for the smaller engines, up to about 175cc's. When I get into 250's and up I use this procedure. I do automatic feed to the max depth. shut of machine then I lift the quill let's say 1/2 inch then I lift the knee 1/2 inch then I proceed with the automatic feed Sure, sometimes you may get a little line at the resume point, but I always leave about .005 to hone. This will remove the line, if there is one. works for me. Give it a try and let me know how you make out. Thanks for spending time in the shop with me.
Hey John, no you really don't want to go down that road. Your cylinder is aligned to the crank and rod by how it fits to the case. So you just try to maintain that orientation. The rotating assembly and piston compensates for any small differences in alignment.
I was going to try and bore a cylinder on my bridgeport but my quill travel is only 5 inches and the cylinder was about 5 1/4 inches. What would you do in a situation like that?
Hi there, that is an issue I run in to often also. What I do is let the quill run to bottom of travel then slowly bring the knee up to finish the bore. I always thought if there was a line were I changed it would hone out ok. Well I have never had a line. I usually leave .004 to .005 to hone anyway, so it wouldn't be an issue anyway. Yes for me its 250cc and up that I have that issue with. Just go slow and easy, it takes more time but that is the only option I know of...short of buying a boring bar. Good luck, let me know how you make out. Thanks for hanging out in the shop with me.
Hi there, I think your referring to the Micrometer, and I have it in a micrometer stand, it is used to measure external like the piston in this case. Internal, IE the cylinder I use either snap gauges or dial bore gauge. Thanks for following the channel.
Hi John, it is made by Mesa tools. Pretty sure it is mesatools.com Last I heard they have been discontinued, but they are making a different unit. I have had mine over 10 years. It really works great. Very ridged. Thanks for watching.
Hi Danny, yes, it is a 4 inch, I got it several years ago on Ebay, it was a used one. Seems like I paid about 200.00 for it plus shipping, it is quite heavy. I think you can get them from the machine suppliers to, such as MSC. I would just look for a used one, they can get expensive if new. Good luck on your quest.
Hi Mark, I don't have any for sale at the moment, I may have a 75 TS250 sometime in the future. If I have any that do go up for sale I will mention it on my channel. Thanks for hanging out in the shop with me.
There are several types of boring machines, but yes, I think you have to have one or have someone bore it that does have one. Some folks try to hone it, but that is only for the final fitting of the piston.
Thanks, but this needs some serious editing!! there's no need to show the whole boring operation from top to bottom. You gave a lot of interesting and informative information regarding the setup with the DTO, but then nothing on setup and use of the cutter.
Sorry you didn't enjoy it. Hey, I have 4 or 5 of these, some show more in different areas of the operation, they all show some set up, at least one shows the entire set up procedure. Thanks for stopping by.
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Learned more on this topic with this ONE video than the last 12 put together. Well done, Dale!!
Thanks brother, trying to make it easy to follow. Hope it helps others to do it or at least understand how its done, if not just some entertainment.
I appreciate the information and the help I have a j Port Bridgeport milling machine that was my father's at this time I've been looking for a Van Norman boring bar which is almost impossible to find but anyways I have the boring heads and things and the carbide tips I was just curious what was the RPM on the drive going down into the cylinder I believe I understood you to say the slower the better thanks anyways now I know I can do it I will practice with a bad cylinder that I have that has to have cylinder liners put into it just as I start out then I will do all of the cylinders that I have lined up now which is over 22 cylinders for old triumphs and bsa's
Excellent workmanship from which I have learned so very much Sir. Thank you every time. !!
Thanks Ricardo.
Dale, thank you for showing us this! So far I've only ruined bores, not fixed them.🤣 Although that was fun, I think I would like to fix some now.
Hey, no sweat, I have ruined my share of cylinders, they were all mine and worn out. But practice is all I needed, now I bore several a year and have no problems if you follow procedures. The biggest of which is not to get distracted. You will be boring like a champ soon. Hang in there.
@@montana2strokeracer Kind words of encouragement, thank you!
Great to watch Dale, I'm hoping that I can do similar with my mill in the future, once I've arranged a powered down feed or knee feed.
Thanks for showing how it's done, I'm looking forward to the honing process.
Best wishes, Dean.
Thanks Dean, yes the power feed is important for that proceedure. Is there a way to retrofit your machine for that. I had a china made machine prior to the bridgeport and it didnt have a way to do it. That was one of the reasons to seek out an old worn out bridgeport. Im very happy with this machine but I wish it was not so worn, you just have to deal with it.
@@montana2strokeracer Hi Dale, there are a number of people that have converted machines like mine, you can get a factory knee feed but not a quill down feed. You have get creative with a drive motor and toothed belts for that. Best wishes, Dean.
this isnt boring... ITS INTERESTING !!
Thanks brother, I enjoyed this proceedure too.
Exelent info, nice guy, clean shop!
Thank you. Stop by again, lots of motorcycle and motorcycle machine work going on here every week.
Good video, thanks. If you could, next time, show how the Allen wrench adjusted the bore diameter. Also, include the prior part where you check for vertical runout of the cylinder wall after clamping.
Hey Tom, I have done a bunch of these boring videos, I am sure I have shown the boring head adjustment, you just loosen the lock set screw, and adjust how many thousands to remove, and relock the set screw. I don't check anything after clamping, you check the cylinder at 6 places three to front and back, and 3 parallel to the pin, if it exceeds criteria for that machine, then you bore, I normally stop boring when the piston can be put in the cylinder upside down and goes in to the bottom of the piston pin, that leaves me .003 to .004 to hone to fit the piston at which time I also check for taper. This is two stroke, 4 stroke a bit different. You have to measure the top of the piston and the bottom of the piston. Most 2 strokes are 10 to 12 thousands different top to bottom. Four strokes are less.
For those that have never centered with a dial indicator, when you’re adjusting don’t move the table so that it reads as zero on the other side.
You will just chase your tail swapping the distance that you are out side to side.
You want to try and move HALF the distance that you are out.
If you’re .010” off zero side for side, move .005” then zero the dial again and check side for side until it’s good.
Another note, run the dial indicator at the top and bottom of the cylinder, it’ll save your butt.
Exactly!
A slow process. Thanks for sharing brother.
You bet, thanks for following along
Now that's a Mill. I'm looking at getting a mini one, dunno if I could do that though. Thanks for showing us how it's done.
Thanks Greg, are you getting some time on your lathe. They are alot of fun, but it is a learning thing. Try to get a mill a little bigger than you think you need. You can handle a bunch of jobs with both.
@@montana2strokeracer Still waiting on both. I got a 8x16 Lathe and the Mill is a Micro-Mark Mini LMill (DC Brushless, belt driven). Probably not the best stuff, but for what I'd do, probably work fine and I didn't want to spend too much, the Mill was $2k with auto-feed table and accessories, and couldn't find anything close by anywhere near that price. Dunno if I could fit a head on it, but I'll definitely try (got some old ones) when it gets here. And I have a TON to learn about both. So looking forward to more lathe and mill stuff from you. I hadn't ever considered either until I watched you.
Hi, thanks for sharing your knowledge with so many... I'm curious to know where you got your boring bar adapter tool from to allow you to bore deeply with the boring head?
This one is made by Mesa tool, I have heard it has been discontinued, for another model that doesn't work as good for boring.
@@montana2strokeracer thanks for letting me know. I'll get making my own special boring bar to fit my boring head.
Excellent video! I really appreciated and enjoyed watching your attention to detail! Well done sir. Definitely subscribing 👍
Thank you for the kind words, I sure appreciate you spending some time here at my shop. Thanks for the sub too.
Excellent. Thank you.
Thanks Jack, appreciate you spending time with me in the shop.
Just came across this video fron You Tube recommendations.
I've bored hundreds of cylinders in the past, depending on tip radius of tool, 0.004" / revolution would be about right to get a good finish particularly if your honing to finished size.
When set up is within 0.005" I would have done a 0.003" cut if I wasn't used to machine and a 0.004" if I knew exactly how it was cutting.
Sunnen makes some neat guided stones for honing two strokes that bridge the ports
I worked in a Suzuki/Yamaha dealership in the 80's and also taught 'Machine Shop' at MMI Orlando (2002-2007)
You should try a Harley 883 to 1200 conversion, 0.496" to come out (about a pound of cast iron from each cylinder 😁)
Hi thanks for your comments, I have never worked on a Harley, except for some of the Italian two strokes, but I can just imagine the amount of metal that comes from a conversion like that.
I really like the stones I am using on this machine; I have tried and still have some of the ones with the aluminum scrapers, they work ok, but the scrapers tend to wear at a different rate than the stones. I prefer to hone without scrapers, many times on a portable hone I will use the scraper type, but I really prefer the bench mounted hone for these small two strokes. Sounds like you have a lot of experience with these machines, and I sure appreciate you sharing your knowledge, we are never too old to learn, and I sure have a lot of learning to do yet. Thanks again for hanging out in the shop with me.
@montana2strokeracer how do I find out what bikes you have for sale? I am interested in a 1970 to a 1972 suzuki TS 185 or a 250 model . Thanks in advance.
@@marklewis9285 I think you replied to wrong post although Dale will probably read it and understand. Personally, I don't have any Suzuki's for sale
What type of boring bar do you have fitted to your boring head, looks nice and stout.
I got it from Mesa tool, lot of folks have asked about it. I am told they no longer make that one but do make a replacement. It is very strong, has little if any deflection. It fits in to two 1/2 inch pin holes of the criterion boring head. Mesatool.com I think. Thanks for stopping by the channel
great video dale is there nothing u cant do great job
Thanks Mark, I try to do as much as I can. There are limits though.
Nice cutter... where'd you find one like that?
Hi Jon, it came from Mesa tools. They have a web page. Think it is discontinued now, but they have a replacement, I haven't tried it yet though.
great video!
Thank you sir, thanks for stopping by.
I find that my mill doesn't have enough quill depth to clear the whole cylinder on the cylinders I've tried. I guess I could use the knee, but that sounds kinda tricky.
Hey Joe, mine is the same. I only have 5 inches of quill travel. It works fine for the smaller engines, up to about 175cc's. When I get into 250's and up I use this procedure.
I do automatic feed to the max depth.
shut of machine
then I lift the quill let's say 1/2 inch
then I lift the knee 1/2 inch
then I proceed with the automatic feed
Sure, sometimes you may get a little line at the resume point, but I always leave about .005 to hone. This will remove the line, if there is one.
works for me. Give it a try and let me know how you make out.
Thanks for spending time in the shop with me.
Question, do you need to make sure the cylinder is straight up and down also?
Hey John, no you really don't want to go down that road. Your cylinder is aligned to the crank and rod by how it fits to the case. So you just try to maintain that orientation. The rotating assembly and piston compensates for any small differences in alignment.
@montana2strokeracer Okay, thanks.
I was going to try and bore a cylinder on my bridgeport but my quill travel is only 5 inches and the cylinder was about 5 1/4 inches. What would you do in a situation like that?
Hi there, that is an issue I run in to often also. What I do is let the quill run to bottom of travel then slowly bring the knee up to finish the bore. I always thought if there was a line were I changed it would hone out ok. Well I have never had a line. I usually leave .004 to .005 to hone anyway, so it wouldn't be an issue anyway. Yes for me its 250cc and up that I have that issue with. Just go slow and easy, it takes more time but that is the only option I know of...short of buying a boring bar. Good luck, let me know how you make out. Thanks for hanging out in the shop with me.
@@montana2strokeracer sounds good, i will give it a shot👍
Dale if the clearences are to tight after honing do you rebore or hone more?
Yes if its too tight just hone a bit more.
Awesome video . Hey, what’s the name of the measuring tool you used at 1:25?
Hi there, I think your referring to the Micrometer, and I have it in a micrometer stand, it is used to measure external like the piston in this case. Internal, IE the cylinder I use either snap gauges or dial bore gauge. Thanks for following the channel.
Where did you get the tool that is in the boring head
Hi John, it is made by Mesa tools. Pretty sure it is mesatools.com
Last I heard they have been discontinued, but they are making a different unit. I have had mine over 10 years. It really works great. Very ridged. Thanks for watching.
Yeah I really want oney self
We need to be best friends 😂
Its sad I gotta to to youtube to get a snow fix. I live in NWPA and we used to get winter.
Eddie, by gosh I can sure send you some snow if you need it. LOL
interesting vid.
all good 3:24 am Friday.
Frank your as bad as me. I dont sleep much, naps are my thing
I see u have put the column ext on your Bridgeport mill can I ask where u got it I would like one for my mill
Hi Danny, yes, it is a 4 inch, I got it several years ago on Ebay, it was a used one. Seems like I paid about 200.00 for it plus shipping, it is quite heavy. I think you can get them from the machine suppliers to, such as MSC. I would just look for a used one, they can get expensive if new. Good luck on your quest.
Thank you verry much I’ll do just that
And subscribed! 👍
Thank you sir.
Ever made a new iron liner for a cylinder?
Never from scratch, have purchased universal sleeves and mapped and cut my own ports. Lot of work
@@montana2strokeracer I guess that's what I thinking. Lots of grinding to make ports match the cylinder.
How do I find out what bikes that you have for sale? I am interested in a 1970 to a 1972 suzuki TS a 185 or a 250 model. Thanks in advace.
Hi Mark, I don't have any for sale at the moment, I may have a 75 TS250 sometime in the future. If I have any that do go up for sale I will mention it on my channel. Thanks for hanging out in the shop with me.
Fantastic video Dale, as usual. Do you hone for customers or just do your own machine work?
Thanks Jeff, I do some for my local customers from time to time. Lots of fab and light machine work.
👍
Thank you, thanks for taking time to watch the channel
From osoyoos bc next time,again....
Langley BC. Hi neighbor 🍻🍻
@whiplashmachine you take care of course.
Jól be remegett az a kés lapkás késsel ezt csak alu lapkával lehet!
Thanks buddy I appreciate the help. Thanks for following the channel
super acuracy
Thank you, and thanks for stopping by.
no problems. Im learngin to do some millign on my car engines. its great to learn from your videos
@@montana2strokeracer
is there any other way to drill except machine ?
There are several types of boring machines, but yes, I think you have to have one or have someone bore it that does have one. Some folks try to hone it, but that is only for the final fitting of the piston.
@@montana2strokeracer thanks brother.
out of interest. how close will it be using an edge finder
I have never tried to align a cylinder like that. Think it would take longer to get it right. But not sure. Certainly, up to you.
Scott Glenn?
?, not sure what you mean.
@@montana2strokeracer He's a movie star. You look just like him. Cheers from the Flathead.
@@montana2strokeracer He's a movie star. You look just like him. Cheers from the Flathead.
No point in hurrying and ruining cylinder !
I was just gonna use a paint mixer on my drill
Yeah you do that 🤔
Thanks, but this needs some serious editing!! there's no need to show the whole boring operation from top to bottom. You gave a lot of interesting and informative information regarding the setup with the DTO, but then nothing on setup and use of the cutter.
Sorry you didn't enjoy it. Hey, I have 4 or 5 of these, some show more in different areas of the operation, they all show some set up, at least one shows the entire set up procedure. Thanks for stopping by.
@Dale Sweger I did enjoy it Dale, just saying it could be improved with a bit of editing.
Well I thought it was pretty good. After a quick veiw of your page it seems you could use your advice