Shakespeare and the early 2000s rom-com: She's the Man & 10 Things I Hate About You
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
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shaking up Shakespeare ;)
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-accent: lived in america when younger, ireland most of my life
-edit: final cut pro x
-study: English Lit & Film Studies, graduated in 2022
I do agree that 10 things could have wrapped up better to not have an implication that Kat now feels less strongly about feminism, but IMO she was never a “man hating” feminist. It makes perfect sense to me that she has become more careful around men and doubtful of their intentions after abuse at a young age. This is combined with her being angry which is a normal (or should I say common) teenage thing to be, and it’s why she acts the way she does at the start of the movie. These two factors both are impacted when she is in a healthy relationship and trusts a man + is at a better place which to me perfectly explains why she won’t act angrily for no reason anymore. But I do agree they should have included a scene of them together both going to a girlband concert or talking about politics and it being clear that he actually cares, to show that Kat still holds those beliefs.
Also, the fact that she is constantly made fun by guys improves the anger, and it's a cicle: guys makke fun of her > she gets angry at them > they make even more jokes. The same happend to me at school, and I was even asked if I was a lesbian, just 'caus i hated all the boys in my class, but I only hated them because of the bullyng
@@gisela_oliveira Late comment, but the exact same thing happened to me. I was bullied by the boys in class, hence I had zero romantic interest in them, unlike the other girls in class, and therefore the girls started calling me a lesbian and making a bunch of homophobic jokes about me.
truee but having a convo like that (specially if not done correctly) just makes it political/politically correct/too serious and idk its a comedy that does touch feminism but its not the main focal point really, its kat and patrick, their relationship, how both evolve past stereotypes both of them held about themselves, each other, and the rest of their little society
I agree with a lot of your criticisms of She's The Man, and I definitely think that its views on gender and sexuality make the film seem very dated now.
However, I don't think it's fair to say the film "fails in its portrayal of gender fluidity" because I don't think the film ever set out to portray gender fluidity at all. The film's message is strictly a (second wave) feminist one in which Viola is not necessarily unhappy with her gender, but rather frustrated by the restrictions her gender places on her - which is entirely valid imo.
Of course, the lack of discussion of the idea of gender fluidity feels like a missed opportunity, especially now that feminism which is more intersectional and trans-inclusive has become more mainstream, and I think a remake of the film that does explore those topics could be really interesting.
But I don't think the film is necessarily wrong for portraying Viola's feminine side as her true self because I think the point of the film is that a girl shouldn't have to pretend to be a boy in order to be taken seriously by boys /men, which is a completely separate issue to gender fluidity.
I hope this makes sense and doesn't come off as transphobic or anything and I think that we absolutely need more representation of non-white, cisgender, heterosexual experiences and points of view in teen movies. But basically my point is that it's not fair to criticise a film for failing to do something that it wasn't ever trying to do.
agreed!!! as a tomboy kid she resonated strongly with me for dressing up as a boy strictly so she could be taken seriously. now as an adult I'm a high femme lesbian, but it took me a very long time to release my feminine side. the shoe scene especially but many others seem to show Viola is actually quite feminine, but just refuses to portray that so as to not be considered vapid and stupid, and besides that she has a hard time navigating her love for sports (associated with manly clothes and actions) and her femininity. it has nothing to do with gender fluidity and that's ok
Very true!
I'm glad I found your comment, I was thinking the same thing but I don't I would've been able to worded it so well
yes!!!
Agreed, people are so focused on politics that they forget a lot of movies weren't trying to be political, or make a statement in that way, it wasn't necessarily the point.
Thanks for the analysis! I remember being obsessed with She's the Man as a tween. Ten years later I came out as nonbinary :D
Ah yes. She's the man. One of the many movies/tv shows that confused the hell out of my lesbian brain as a child.
I think it's very interesting how these films both had the same screenwriters, and I wish there were more modern adaptations of plays that not everyone is familiar with.
I watched 10 Things for the first time this past Valentine's Day. While I think it's an okay movie, I think it could've handled feminist aspects better, but not because of the ending. Like this review mentioned, Kat's feminist ideals centre almost exclusively on cishet white women, and there are hardly any major BIPOC characters in the story besides that one teacher and Chastity and no characters on the LGBTQ specuturm. While the lack of queer rep is understandable because it came out almost 30 years ago, but the other isn't. I would've liked it more if the movie had a BIPOC woman who called her out on her bullshit more instead of playing lip service to it like that one scene seemed to do. Or, hell, made the love interest a BIPOC man. Like I said, the movie's fine, but I would love to see these aspects applied if there was ever a remake of this.
Honestly Mercutio being a drag queen is one of the most accurate parts about that movie
Taming of the Schrew is my least favourite Shakespeare play, I don't get how people today can view it as a comedy, it's horryfying. 10 things, however, is one of my favourite romcoms. Probably because no actual "taming" takes place and nobody is starving anyone into obedience.
It's only a comedy because no one dies. That is the unfortunately low bar for the genre when looking at Shakespeare.
Yah the way Shakespeare works is if the play ends in a death/funeral then it’s a tragedy. If it ends in a wedding then it’s a comedy. Their are not really any in between or other genres.
I really recommend watching the 'Kiss me Petruchio' documentary of the play taming of the shrew that Meryl Streep and raul Julia acted in because it is actually one of my favourite Shakespeare plays. I think that doc will possibly give you a new perspective when you look at the play. It's on RUclips :)
@@sophiaandrea6493 Ok you had me at Meryl Streep, will check it out, thanks for the rec!)
Because human males want to control human females and are angry when they can't. Human females seem to bend to this still . When your friends get a new boyfriend you know your friendship won't be the same and she will spend all her time doing boring things with him.
Thought this was a video about me smh
sorry who are you?
@@elleliteracy you are so girl power
@@Shanspeare you’re so slay!! girl boss 👊
😂
Thank you for pointing out how he could have recommended a black woman. Often times both black men and white women forget about us when they talk about race versus gender. We are both black and a woman. Both our race and gender affects us and a lot of white feminists often ignore our struggles and only use us when they need us to fight for them and them only.
stop im literally in a gender and sexuality class rn and we just read twelfth night and taming of the shrew. such a coincidence thank you queen perfect timing
I wish my gen class was this cool. We literally just read and take notes, nothing fun.
I remember watching She's The Man back before I was fully out as a trans man, in middle school or freshman year, and it kind of both resonated eith me and made me a bit upset, I haven't watched it since so I can't fully explain my feelings about it
I don't completely agree on your views about how kat was portrayed, actually I think her getting her father to agree that she was going to a NY school was never the issue, she loved her father and she wanted him to trust her but opposite to bianca she never asked for his permission so I don't think that patriarchy analogy makes sense, also, saying that her feminism era started only because of a guy is undermining kat's character she didn't become a feminist to get revenge on a guy, she did it because after what happened she realized how stupid she was by wanting to be what everyone else wanted, therefore cementing that kat's feminism is her true self not a phase, that's why she hated how Bianca acted not because she was feminine but because she was doing it to impress everyone else, I still loved your video but I guess we just see kat differently, actually I was so interested on kat as a kid that I became a feminist after reading about it so, at least for me it never shows feminism in a fully bad light, of course after rewatching I could see better ways to portray feminism, but I don't think the film tries to undermine feminism or make it something to overcome
I really love how they've updated these stories for a contemporary audience. While the characters setting and situations are largely modernised, they are still familiar enough that the viewers can recognise the same plot points and beats.
i literally see you everywhere I swear, and i always agree with whatever you’re commenting lmao xd
@@spookyho5994 Nice, great minds certainly think alike, right? 😘
Dude you're everywhere and you have the same name as me I feel like you're stealing my identity
Romeo + Juliet is a goddamn cinematic masterpiece and all I ever hear is SLANDER
I can see why some people wouldn’t be into it. I remember being super confused about how all the characters communicated when I first watched it.
@@bpsara i guess i can kiiind of understand that, but i think the dialogue is also to be expected since it's shakespeare. and the movie does a really good job giving context clues through the acting/setting/etc to understand what they're talking about even if the dialogue sounds strange. to me, it feels like people who don't like the movie just also don't like reading or watching shakespeare with the original dialogue either, which, ultimately, i can understand that it's not for everyone and can be difficult to follow. it just makes me a little sad that it gets written off just for the dialogue
@@laceyevrard9844 exactly. Plus of the adaptations it’s the one that uses a higher percentage of dialogue from the play itself. My 9th grade English teacher had us watch this film version for that reason so we wouldn’t be weary of the play itself because of the language.
25:27 ‘some like it hot’ actually has queer themes and was made without approval from/in protest of the hays code, helping lead to its eventual demise. it’s not just another “man in a dress” movie.
we just produced a genderneutral/fluid version of macbeth that went up like two weeks ago gender and shakespeare are fun together
The bard knew what he was doing, it seems
I love high concept shakespeare adaptations. As an actor, I’ve done midsummer set in the 1920s, midsummer as an 80’s glam rock show, taming of the shrew in the Wild West, much ado at the end of WWI, etc. i think it’s the only truly interesting way to stage shakespeare. And I love Romeo + Juliet
my college did a production of julius caesar set in a men’s prison in the 80s, with an all-female cast, and the soundtrack was all female punk & rock musicians. it was fantastic.
@@JackieBorelli okay, that sounds FUCKING AMAZING
Zefferelli was just mad he didn't think about making Mercutio a drag queen
I would argue that a) Katherina in the original portrayal was displaying Stockholm syndrome in the end of the play as a result of her trauma and b) Kat was most likely not a feminist because of the actions of a man, I think that that occurrence may have influenced which road she went down, however, she ended up educating herself for the better, she prioritized college for herself, and she was no longer interested in participating in trends or customs that were not serving her. Kat in her purest form was a knowledge seeker, albeit that her view was somewhat narrow. In the movie she says "why should I live up to anyone else's expectations instead of my own".
Anyone who takes Shakespeare’s work super seriously is already looking at things completely wrong. Shakespeare wrote his plays for the common man and wrote a lot of comedies. I mean I doubt something like Romeo and Juliet was actually supposed to be treated like a drama (it seems more like dark humor to me).
Good point! He's seen as "high culture" now but there's a heckton of dick jokes in there - it's just that due to idiomatic language drift, a lot of the bawdier human flies under readers'/viewers' radar these days.
What I enjoy about Shakespeare's tragedies and comedies (those I've read), is that the comedies go dark and the tragedies have tons of jokes. His plays are like life in that way, with jokes happening alongside the painful and tragic and love next to violence.
5:11 huh. I prefer the 1968 film myself but...dude, chill. It's still Shakespeare. Actually I remember how people were tsk tsking kids watching this movie instead of reading the play and years later I thought "Wait, it's a play. Aren't you supposed to watch it? Or listen? What is this line of thinking?"
I never got the anger. Shouldn't they be glad it even drew teens/kids in at all? Like, I loved both the original and new adaptations. I think people who hate all adaptations for not being the same thing over and over again must live a very boring life. Like, be glad to see your favorite thing is still relevant even if they change it up a bit.
@@oldladytrexarms I Agree 100%.
Ngl I saw the notification and read it as "Shanspeare" and was confused for a good while (let's go dyslexia lmao)
Also the way I was obsessed with "girl disguises herself as a boy then there's a reveal at the end" like it says a lot about me today lol
Also anyone could win me over with a fender guitar let's be honest for a second 😂
Also she's the man had me DYING for my lesbian rep at the LEAST
You ever read the book about the "girl" (egg vibes for sure) whose name is typo-ed on the first day of school and they like, go along with it for months and join the boys sports team? I was preteen age wishing someone would mistake me for a boy so bad and not thinking twice about it cause of this crap 😭
@@_gremlinboy who’s the author of the book? I can’t find it
As a non binary person:
Those tropes aswell as the : "not like other girls, want to be a boy,..." feel lowkey transphobic
@@mikehawk4715 I have unfortunately forgotten the name! I can probably try some keyword searches though and see if i can find it
Edit: got it! "The day Joanie Frankenhauser became a boy" by Francess Lin Lantz :) I should give it a reread
@@_gremlinboy thank you
My high school did a production of Twelfth Night in the early 2000s and the finale had Viola dash off stage and quick change into a ball dress for the dancing. Ground the whole thing to a halt. But God forbid two people dance together in pants.
Ugh, I was in the Addams Family and the “Dance Ensemble” were all girls but each pairing had to have someone dressed as a guy 🙄!
interesting point I just noticed: Illyria coach doesn't discriminate based on gender yet only has a guys soccer team before Viola
The reason for that could be a societal issue rather than the coach's own discrimination. High school and colleges, I feel like, generally have girl teams and boy teams, keeping the genders separate so people would assume that a girl can't be on a boy team and a boy can't be on a girl team so why would anyone bother trying out for an opposite team in the first place if they think they'll just be rejected from the start?
When I was in middle school I wanted to try out for the boys football (american football not soccer) team but everyone suggested I try flag football instead cause I was too small to go against the boys in tackle. I'm not saying they're wrong but I never tried out because everyone thought I would get hurt.
So maybe the coach just didn't have any girls attempt to tryout for his team before 🤷♀️ :)
I think another aspect to consider with Twelfth Night is that during Shakespeare time women didn’t perform on the stage. Younger boys were used to play the female roles. So, in plays like Twelfth Night, where female characters cross dress, you have males playing females that are playing males. It makes that binary a lot more confusing and blurs that line of what masculine and feminine look like. I really think the play is a lot more complex than what the movie She’s the man tries to convey.
I also don’t think Viola in Twelfth Night plays on those ideas of hyper-masculine tropes. In fact she’s rather awkward about it. But compared with the males characters in the play, they are not very “masculine” themselves. Yet, nobody ever questions her gender because of this aspect. With this in mind, it could suggest that there really is no definitive of what masculine and feminine look like except for what the group dictates. Maybe Viola is able to get away with being a man because the men in the play are also not very “traditionally masculine”.
I just love the subjects you make your videos on! Thank you for making such wonderful content! ❤️
thank you for watching them!!
The thing I'll always be grateful to 10 Things is introducing me to Bikini Kill and the Raincoats.
Patrick wins over Kat STRATford by getting her a STRATocaster guitar lmao just realized this the other day
How am I this early? Must be a sign from a higher power.
To anyone who likes these adaptation and wish it were gayer I’d highly suggest "Twelfth Grade (or Whatever)", "Nothing Much to Do" (and sequel lovely little losers), "Bright Summer Night" and "Call Me Katie" (and sequel Nothing like the Sun) on RUclips.
I literally came to the comments to see if anyone would mention these!
10 Things was definitely a huge improvement on 'Taming of the Shrew'. One of the few Shakespeare movie I will never buy despite names like Zefferrelli, and Elizabeth Taylor. I'm still not sure if the dialogue from the play that The BBC used in its Taming of the Shrew episode of 'Shakespeare retold (4 Shakespeare stories put into modern day, Midsummer Nights Dream, Taming of the Shrew, Much Ado About Nothing, Macbeth) was genuine or sarcastic, either way that whole scene felt off to me.
Did see a great all women performance of the play once though, where Bianca got drunk off champagne at her wedding, and halfway through Katharina's 'Is not thy husband thy lord' speech said "Oh for f***'s sake" and walked into the background. The actress playing Kate had to pause for a bit because everyone was applauding Bianca.
I feel you're being way too kind to the filmmakers' view of feminism cuz from what I remember of the film (which I've only watched once and it was long ago, so I could be misremembering), the portrayal of Kat's feminism was always treated more like an overall character flaw. Regardless, excellent video, very insightful and enjoyable 🤗
watching shes the man as a kid and Realizing Things is zillenial trans man culture
I was gonna just leave a joke comment but honestly that part about Vibastian as a trans allegory really hit home. I distinctly remember watching it with my ex who was a trans woman, while I myself id'ed as trans male at the time, now nb masc. She asked me why I was so hyped to watch a teen comedy I'd last seen when I was like 15 or something and I didn't really have an answer for her. When we got to the montage with Viola's makeover we both just loudly blurted out "that's a trans". I just think it's really neat how minorities, especially queer minorities, or people on the autism spectrum, will often see characters and just collectively agree that they belong to their group. That some experiences and feelings are universal enough to transcend societal boundaries.
I really appreciate the timing of you bringing this out as I've just finished watching "the Philadelphia story" once again and it constantly berates Katherine Hepburn and how she's not soft, feminine and human enough.. a trope that still repeats today
I really like your point about Petruchio's terrorizing of Kat being turned into a cute paintball moment, I had never thought of it that way.
The topics you choose are always so interesting! I love hearing your thoughts on all of them
Are We not going to talk about how she's the man gave Amanda body dismorphia and gender disphoria?
STM: A reasonably clever way to get around the plot confusions. As the film is naturally anti-gay, it's probably just as well that it didn't attempt any direct representation on the sexuality front.
The argument of the presentation seems to follow the line of the NPR interviewer who wanted Mr McEnroe (J) to call Ms Williams (S) the greatest tennis player of all time without the qualifier female.
i can't wait for ppl to make body swap or pretend ur another gender movies that actually have trans people, a bit like jim in ofmd, afab disguised as a man to survive, but when they're revealed, they realize they don't feel comfortable being referred to as a woman actually and go by they/them. like give me a body swap movie with a trans person that finally gets a body they feel good in, or movies where by the end gender is meaningless, like please when are we doing that ?
THE EDITING !!!
💁♀️
i was literally thinking of writing my film dissertation on this wtf hahah should i do it?
You have once again made an extremely informative and inclusive video essay, this time about one of my favorite movies!
I know I’m a year late, but I love Taming as someone with a theatre degree & just a general love for it and for dramaturgy (and a love for these movies bc duh) - when contextualizing the play in Elizabethan England, women were not allowed in onstage performances. This has further complicated discussions on gender in both Taming and Twelfth Night. For example - the physical abuse in Taming may not have been quite as emotionally jarring considering it was a man dressed as a woman playing Kat, which may lend itself to a more comedic and light reading. On the other hand, could also be interpreted as a sad parody of how men viewed women’s abuse at the time as laughable. I could go on forever, so I’ll stop there! Great video ❤️❤️❤️
Wow this analysis was actually really good. Watching this video, I think it would be very cool to see an analysis on gender in Gilmore Girls and how it’s portrayed.
I remember watching the Baz’s version of Romeo and Juliet at school instead of the 1969 one, probably because we were in Year 9 and students would be bored if we watch the 1969 one.
By the way, my teacher was very young that time, like around 35-39 so she wouldn’t even know the 1969 movie.
Loved this! Such a thoughtful video essay!
i would actually really love a 12th night adaptation that deals with gender expression in a non binary way
Julia Stiles has this fun lil detail for her filmography, playing in both 10 Things and O.
ok poll here. State your favourite 90s Shakespeare movie:
Much Ado About Nothing (1993)
Hamlet (1990)
A Midsummer Night's Dream (1999)
Hamlet (1996)
Twelfth Night (1996)
William Shakespeare's Romeo + Juliet (1996) - I liked it as much as Zefferelli's 1968 one, and it earns a place on this list because it uses the original language
Hamlet (2000) - just out of the decade I know, but likewise uses the original language
Othello (1995)
Titus (1999)
Loves Labours Lost (2000) - again, I know, it's just out of the 90s and is mixed with 30s music but I liked it and it was one of his earlier plays as well.
Henry V (1989) - once more out of the 90s, but close to them.
You can ignore the 1980s 2000s movies if you want (though if you want another good one, Branagh did As You Like It in 2006).
My point is, pick your favourite here
You are absolutely brilliant and I’m in complete awe of this video essay. I revisited She’s the Man as a video on my channel from the “Shakespearean” perspective (how well I felt it captured the essence of the play as a Shakespeare fan) and am so glad I’m not alone in feeling this film missed the mark in other capacities as well as not being a great adaptation of the actual play. Your film and gender background was so informative in framing the film in a more comprehensive way for me - particularly the portion about gender performance, which I felt was off balance in the film, in comparison to the play. The characters are portrayed SO differently and SO many things are added and subtracted to the point where it does not feel like an adaptation of Shakespeare, and instead, something else entirely. And you are 100000% spot on that it feels less progressive than the original play, especially in the way film Viola’s pick-me energy puts down the other women in the film or uses them to better her own standing with the men - whereas Shakespeare’s women mostly defend one another, sometimes with their lives.
On the other hand, I absolutely love 10 Things and I think it DOES capture the essence of the play and the characters in the modernization - including Petruchio’s actions and their whole relationship. I also think Taming is super misunderstood - Kate in the play, while mad for a good reason, is abusive (the only one who physically beats people), entitled, and generally actually terrible. But the way the teacher in the film reads her to filth for being a privileged, out of touch white woman is just perfect. As for Bianca - putting on the gender performance show and playing that game to manipulate the men, whether it’s her father or her suitors, is also in line with what Shakespeare wrote and I love how the film modernizes that. I definitely plan to do another video essay explaining why this film is such a good Shakespeare adaptation when I have some more time - although you doing this while also in college reminds me that I have no excuses and I need to get to it! 😂
Thank you so much for this incredible video!! You’re a genius and wish you all the best!! ❤️
I think that 10 Things and O might have been the better Shakespeare adaptations though I liked the 2001 British TV movie Othello (starring Eamonn Walker who also played Othello for the Globe in 2008, set in then modern day London but you can't really see much difference between 2001 and now) and though I felt that the motel scene in O was unnecessary as well as really difficult to watch. I did like She's the Man more than I thought I would (still annoyed we didn't have a Feste character though as he was my favourite, though I guess after Ben Kingsley plays a role it's automatically an intimidating role because suddenly you have huge shoes to fill).
TWO OF MY FAVORITE MOVIES
amazing video, good job! :)
I can't see that romeo and juliet scene with the fish tank without thinking about tzuyu and jeonyeong
I think Disney’s Motorcross was a better 12th Night adaptation. And 12th Night because of the gender bending has been my favorite since I was little.
Congrats on the Mubi sponsorship! So famous :)
I don't think writers/directors/artitsts need to be concerned with holding the audiences hand. everything is way to explain away these days and there is no room for nuance. so what if she is not a flawless feminist? todays people need to quell their knee jerks and think critically, there is no compassion for imperfection, its just people screeching at artists that they don't understand, and without even trying. quiet contemplation doesn't get the same attention as bawling about "safety". there's going to be no artists soon anyway I guess and we can all suck our thumbs and watch padded films made by AI
woof! sorry! don't know where that came from! I like your vids
27:40 i i mean the critique is realistic because it WOULD pave the way for vibastian's success in real life. it's not an either or its AND.
Harold Perrineau was the greatest Mercutio in any adaption ever. He is such an underrated actor.
HOW DID I NOT KNOW VINNIE JONES WAS IN THIS MOVIE??
I'm glad you mentioned Just One of the Guys, even briefly. That was a movie I loved as a kid, and I thought of that first before Shakespeare when I saw She's the Man. I rewatched She's the Man last year, and definitely cringed at the dated parts. I think a rewatch of Just One of the Guys is due.
unrelated but I love your eye makeup, it looks so good with your eye shape/color
IM SO EXCITED TO WATCH THIS
!!!
Your eyes are beautiful x
Absolutely the teacher's call out undermined the feminist aspect of the film 13:00
I disagree. I think it shows were Kat is still ignorant and feminism should include women of color. In every way other than being a women, Kat is privileged and I actually love that he called her out for it.
I do see the point in that they were trying to include intersectionality but it was just Black men and White women not acknowledging the people in between. I see the point now.
That’s not true. He was right because white women’s feminism does nothing for Black women who have it even worse than Black men
omg i just had to write an essay on this for my English class! i love your video topics.
As a non-binary queer academic type who loved 10 Things I Hate About You (with so many of my favorite actors) and who was pretty fascinated by She's The Man as a teen, I love this video. I just want to hug it.
My favorite thing about 10 Things I Hate About You is Heath Ledger 😍😂
You and the RUclipsr you mentioned are wearing similar shirts!
i could hear the irish and i was so confused then i read the descrpition haha
The algorithm lead me here and I'm so glad
Love the video!
Quick question what microphone do you use for your videos?
the Rode Reporter! :)
i’m literally obsessed w u
Great video, thanks !
3:46
I would love to see an adaptation of twelfth night in which Viola is a closeted trans woman
i think 10 things at least is a sweeter version of taming if the shrew, besides all the critiques i could make😜 i would looove to see a remake OMG IT WOULD BE SO SWEET WITH LESBIANS OMGOMG