Dear Paul, You are the absolute BEST teacher, so calm, methodical, thorough and detailed, always slow and careful but NEVER condescending, nor do you make assumptions of us. God bless you, I hope (and I am SURE) you will prosper and get many, MANY more subscribers and views. You work SO hard, and your videos are worth every second - *time very well invested indeed, on both your part and ours.* God bless you my friend, Happy Christmas from Matthew, England :)
Well... he does make assumptions of us, lets not play games here. But he is instructive in all intensive purposes. He knows his shit, the dude payed attention in school, unlike most of you out there. :p
This is absolutely the best channel on the internet! Mr. Carlson's calm and thorough narration just keeps pulling me back to watch everything he's ever uploaded!
I've done hundreds of boards and have never heard of the Liquid Tin product. That alone, was worth watching the video. It's always nice to see how other people do things to pick up little tips and tricks. Thanks!
you are totally qualified actually i think 8 year old do it nowadays :D just replace the uv light ,the multiple sheets of paper and the pc program with an iron and and a photocopy or on the other hand a ruler and a sharpie marker covert with liquid paper
This brought a smile to my face. This was before the days when UV etching was available to us hobbyists! Over 35-years ago, I used to design my own circuit boards by hand - using etch resistant transfers. A complex single sided board could take me a few weeks to construct. After etching, the drilling was hand-held with a 1mm drill bit! I always drilled the holes before cleaning the board. My cleaning was soapy water and very fine wet & dry paper. Software wasn't available in those days - thinking about it, PC's were in their infancy! Those were very enjoyable days.
I first started trying to do PCBs when I made a "Light Organ" in oh, 2012 or so. I ended up going a much harder route. I used glossy paper out of magazines to print the mask and a clothes iron to transfer. Tip #1 You have to be REALLY careful with an iron, or you will put too much heat in and cause the copper plate to separate from the silicon. Tip #2, if your transfer has a few weak spots you want to touch up, permanent marker will work, especially if it is a non-critical or small spot. Tip #2 Keep close tabs on your PCB when in the etching solution, once it eats the copper way from your masking, it can start to undercut the copper under the mask from the side. Thin traces are really susceptible.... Awesome video(s). I love every one of them.
Great video as usual! 50 years ago when I was etching boards, i used a rotisserie motor from a BBQ and affixed a rod into it that had a U shape close to the end, I then affixes a bolt that had a circle on the end like those used to hang a porch swing, to the ferric oxide bath. Placing the circle end of the bolt into the U shape of the shaft, the slow rotation of the rotisserie would rotate the shaft, translating circular motion into an up/down motion slowly sloshing the FC across the circuit board, this was single sided circuit boards back in the day! We also used a Sharpee like pen to fix any issues with our layout!
Once again; excellent demonstration of the steps required to make a circuit board and finally giving that professional look after tinning, "nicely done".
Mr. Carlson, This video is easily the most thorough, most informative, and most importantly *most correct* video I've seen on making PCBs on RUclips! Thank you so much for passing on your knowledge to us much less-experienced! I particularly found your advice on avoiding acetone as well as the liquid tinning solution extremely useful. This video makes me much more comfortable in giving this a shot. Thanks again!
Hey Paul nice video, Years ago I worked in auto body repair and used a lot of solvents. The problems you've seen with acetone and laser printer ink are due to the chemical reaction between acetone and the plastic in the ink. Empirically speaking lacquer thinner is much stronger than acetone. There are many times that a paint surface can be cleaned with Acetone without issue but lacquer thinner will cause major chemical reactions. Also the jobber I used to buy paint supplies from used to tell me that it's important to check if lacquer thinner is sold as virgin. I don't recall the specific reason but I was told that some paint stripping chemicals are known to make it into recycled lacquer thinner. He told me this after I got some of the cheap stuff on my hands and started to get the same kinds of chemical burns I've gotten from aircraft paint strippers (seriously nasty stuff). Acetone is generally more mild, but it can leach the oils out of your skin. This can lead to immune system issues. I think of solvents in order of strength for urethane/epoxy painting and surface prep in order from weakest to strongest: Water, Car Wash Soaps, Simple Green, Palmolive dish soap, Alcohol/Ammonia, Wax and Grease Remover, Urethane Solvent, Acetone, Lacquer Thinner, Aircraft Quality Paint Stripper, Sand Paper. All the best, -Jake.
I've recently gotten into electronics and have watched MANY videos on dIy pcb construction. Your procedure by far makes the most sense givin the excellent results you achieve. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience on the subject, I'm looking forward to trying it on my first curcuits.
I have only recently discovered your channel, and I am really, REALLY enjoying it. My father ran an electrical repair shop, and also repaired electronic organs and speakers, but I never acquired any of his knowledge; but your videos (among many other things) rekindle early memories of my father deep in the innards of some wonky Wurlitzer, or broken radio. Which is all to say . . . . THANK YOU for creating such watchable and fascinating programs.
Great video Paul! The last time I made a circuit board (30 years ago!) I used the photo transfer method. The board was laid out by hand on a transparency sheet, and then the image transferred by shining a light through the transparency onto a circuit board pretreated with a photo-sensitive solution. It looks much, much easier to do this way.
+Rob Clift ..back in the 70'sI bought a few Heathkits that involved making double sided boards using the photoresist...worked out OK...I even bought a heath kit light timer to use for the exposure
Back in the 80's, A friend and I figured out that we could make hi contrast positives to make light-printed circuit boards. We had trouble with the density of the positives, but by carefully registering two of them, we got rid of that issue. We were eventually able to use this process with positives made from a Kinko's copy shop, and eliminate the darkroom altogether. Good results. I enjoy your videos a lot. Very informative. Thanks, and peace :)
Hi Paul, learned a lot from your videos, and want to return a small idea: every video I watch about the toner transfer for PCB's shows that you have to sand the copper surface to clean, but I really don't like that. It damages the already thin copper layer, often only 35µm. What I do is clean it with whatever is needed to get visible dirt off, like acetone, or thinner. Then polish the surface with copper- or silver polish, even kitchen stuff like Vim is sometimes usable. You will be left with a clean shining surface. After that, clean it with acetone and you are done. Only difference compared with sanding is that it takes one minute more hard labour, but I found the result really better. Once tried, I bet you will stick to it.
I've been trying for years to get the toner transfer process to work without success. Paul finally gave me a clue as to what I was doing wrong. Finally this morning I tried passing the "sandwich" through the laminator a number of times and I finally have managed to get a clean transfer of toner onto a board.
Personally, you provide more information for the guy like me, a perpetual novice, than all the other video blogs combined. That is no reflection on others, I it is just how well you present and share the knowledge you own. I dare say, "you have forgotten more than I will ever know". Thanks,
Wonderful, wonderful video. You know you have become the cat's meow when BlueGlow Electric mentions you in a video !!! At age 57, I am finally learning about this and building Tube Amp kits. I find that I as very good at melting all the insulation off the wire before I actually get a solder connection. Love to sell my work, but Uncle Fester from the Adam's Family is out of the country :-) Keep up the great video's, they are life savers (literally)
A very good presentation, that I would recommend all that are new to PCB making to watch,. However I have been using, a small portion of, Muriatic Acid, mixed with Hydrogen Peroxide, I aerate the mixture with a small Aquarium aerator, to keep it green. I made a gallon of it in a covered glass container, from Wall Mart, Six years ago, and have made hundreds of boards, single, and double sided, with the same solution, and in fact still using it.
I have to make sure the laminator is warmed up for at LEAST a half hour or the toner wont transfer, AND soak the paper for at least 5 mins. Thanks again! eh!
I taught a hands on college-electronics course where we disingenuous and fabricated double sided printed circuit boards , then built and tested the circuits. My favorite project in my class was a Theremin. It was a six week period of two hours a day every day each week.
@Cosimo Kramarawicz....can I ask you the name of the college you took your training at? I'm looking for a decent college-electronics venu. Cheers, Brian
That was really informative! Way back when I was in high school we painted the traces by hand using straightened paperclips. I could have only dreamed of getting results that nice :)
WOW! What a tutorial. Very nice. I have to think about this and decide if I want to try it. I do have a laser printer and a laminator that's good for up to 15 mil plastic sleeves, and it gets H-O-T-T, hot! Thanks, Paul. You're the best.
Mr. Carlson Very impressive. Your videos are very detailed and straight to the point. This is one of my favorite RUclips channels by far. I appreciate the time you put into it keep up the good work.
Very enjoyable to watch, perfect reference material, I saw how to do this many years ago as a set of pictures with text similar to what has become instructables nowadays but a few crucial steps were not properly explained but THIS is the real deal. Start to finish I'd have no trouble trying this for myself. The custom laminator would be the bottleneck but trial and error is half the fun! Superb tutorial!
This is the video a lot of us have been waiting for. Thanks for a great addition to your series! Now I have to get my shopping list for my wife to pick up supplies :). I will watch this one several times, as I have a number of projects that would benefit from a little circuit board. Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge. I see that your vids are being recommended on other channels. Great stuff!
Stephen Moore Thanks for the kind words Stephen! There are lots of great people here on youtube! I'm just happy to see people benefiting from these video's.
your video really takes me back to the 80's when I made my last PCB's by hand--they were really crappy looking next to yours. I use KiCAD and JLCPCB now and wow was there a lot of learning to use KiCAD but there seems to be some good features and the wait for delivery is ok for me. You are great at what you do!!!
Another great class in Mr C's lab. Re. working around the tripod, buy or make a T-head. Its just a bar that mounts centered in the tripod's 1/4-20 mount screw. Mount your camera on one end and a counterweight on the other end. This basically offsets the camers from the mass of the tripod and gives yous working room when filming.
I am a tool and die maker, well precision machinist , and enjoy learning something new everyday. All your videos I watch accomplish that. You just make learning so enjoyable. Thank You Paul for putting so much effort into what you do.
Very good demonstration of making ckt boards at home. I didn't realize that you can get liquid tin to tin the copper traces. I usually farmed out my ckt boards and had the pc board place tin them for me as the plated through holes required a special process in any case to deposit copper inside the drilled out hole and then tin plate it, another step that was best left to the more experienced.
SuperCarver2011 That's the only downside to this, "no plated thru-holes" But.... I don't mind, I just solder it on both sides. For the via's, I use a small diameter wire ".020" and do the same. Thanks for your comment.
It's probably the best video about etching boards I've seen so far! Your simple idea for aligning double sided boards is great. I would love to see how you converted your laminator into this beast.
There is a video on his Patreon where he takes us inside this laminator. It is not a build video (the machine is old and discontinued and the parts were what he had laying around).
Excellent video Mr Carlson on designing and making double sided printed circuit boards. I have always wanted to get into making printed circuit boards. You did a very good job in your explanation from start to finish. I have a subwoofer amplifier board that I am currently working on which uses two IC type amplifier chips (7379 four channel ) from a five speaker surround sound system. During the removal process the foil copper paths and eyelets was lifted up from excessive heat during the desoldering process. I would love to be able to reproduce the printed circuit board and after watching your video I feel confident in during so. I do have most of the tools such as Dremel, printed circuit board drill bits, laminator, inkjet Hp printer. I Don’t have the press and stand for my Dremel but will get it and the host of other items enumerated. I use to work in aerospace as an technician maintaining CNC and NC mills, plotters, motor controllers and C programming. I recall one vender in a seminar that brought in a small 3 axis drill and mill set up similar to a plotter that could do the same job under the control of software designed for the particular job. That would be ideal for a job such as this which is what is actually used in the manufacturing process in large companies that manufacture printed circuit boards. The chemicals such as the etching solution and silver plating is where I need to research and do my homework for the purpose of safety such as the material data safety sheets. Really enjoy your videos and since we share in our technical background some similarities such as vacuum tube technology we are probably around the same age. Keep up the good work.
I watch this vid some years ago and then the entire vid again today. Outstanding instruction and presentation. I'm not in the position to 'Gear-Up' with all the equipment Paul uses. Regardless, Paul's vid is inspirational and much of his process is applicable to alternate methodes of fusing the trace images. Paul, this is an outstanding presentation. Thank you Muchly....
"..here's the laminator I built.." Oh, if course! How could I have thought otherwise? (He said with nothing but abject admiration and wonder of Mr Carlson's incredible talents!)
Hi Paul I finally did it - toner transfer sucess on the third try. Its all down to the paper in the end - at least for me. found a glossy photo paper for inkjets. Its dirt cheap - 12 sheets for one UK pound. Sorry dont know what that is in dollars. I dont have a laminator - used the trusty clothes iron. Man had to press real hard and rub like crazy. First i placed the iron flat on all over the board to let it stick down. Then i rubbed all over with the edge. Then i wet a paper towel and steamed it three times to soften the backing paper. Then i dried it by placing iron on flat. Finally i rubbed it all over with just the tip. I kept peeling back a small section to see if it had fully transfered. I cooled it very fast by dumping into cold water then peeled the paper off. Had to scrub in hot water to remove all the residue. Im very happy that i watched your vid. It helped a lot. Will never do photo resist ever again. I dont know how to attach pics to this so i cant let you see the results. Many Thanks. Keep up the good work. Now wheres that smd circuit i was trying - ha ha
I have found that at the PCB cleaning stage it's really useful to rub the plate with ordinary kitchen salt (sodium chloride), as this removes copper oxides really fast, thus entirely avoiding the need to sand. Of course, you still need to degrease. Excellent video, keep up the good work!
The laminator is great. I just use a hot iron on an ironing board, with a thin linen dishtowel between the iron and the printed circuit/copper plate. It works well for single sided pcbs and can be used for double sided pcbs (just flip it over and iron the other side) but having said that, this moded laminator is clever. Nice job. [edit: Ferric Chloride is nasty...but the tinning solution is v dangerous if ingested hence the safety advice of Mr Carlson should be taken seriously - only attempt if you have the expertise, safe working area and correct safety equipment - having said which it is wonderful to make your own pcbs].
Paul I agree with the subscriber unlokia you are a very patient and very good teacher which this world needs badly. I enjoy your videos to get very good tips and most importantly safety tips
This looks like an excellent technique, I haven't made any PCBs for years. This looks a very viable and accurate method. Thank you for making this excellent tutorial.
After Alan at W2AEW, you are the second person whose videos I love to watch. Though your videos are bit lengthy but I always enjoy and learn from your soft, calm and detailed explanations. Moreover, English is my second language; I learn a lot of spoken English from you.
I regret I cannot help you deal with those three (at the present time) unfortunate souls who put thumbs down on this, or any of your videos as I am too busy building/fixing things except when its too cold, then I am in here watching and learning from you!
Thanks for taking the time to present really decent and informative information to us all. I picked a tile cutter at a garage sale, the diamond blade type. Fast and accurate cuts, I don't use water during the process so I wear a good quality dust mask.
Laminator is cool, but using heat transfer paper with an iron is much cheaper. Also you can print both sides of the board on 1 heat transfer so their mirror images of each other and then fold the heat transfer over your board... Saves you from buying a laminator and projector. I mean if you have the cash to do so sure, great idea. But Im a poor engineering student and transfer paper and an iron works for now.
Hey, what kind of Transfer Paper do you mean? I cant find something similar here in Germany? Had a Laminator Construction but it broke down (in fact it was a normal Laminator without Housing etc and taken the Temperature Sensor off and i put a Thermometer instead on and watched by my self - but some day my plastics were broke of - i think they didn't like the heat and got brittle...) Now i'm just getting back to the electronics thing and would like to make my circuit Boards again - but if there is a way without a laminator it would be great :)
Iron alone touches only several spots of the board, in order to reliably press all surface of paper to the board you have to put iron upside down and roll with rubber roller on top of the board, which is kinda bulky, dangerous and not comfortable to do, this is where laminator is such a nice tool. I used iron before but after I modified laminator i never look back to iron times :-)
Very informative video, just never heard of liquid TIN . That's new thing . I was watching for double side PCB. As I am going to make for first time . I got new things to learn. Thanks 😊
Excellent!!! Thank you so much for considering our request in making your own PCB tutorial. It helps a lot for a beginner in electronics like me. I know it's not easy to prepare this kind of video and I really appreciate so much sharing your precious time and effort to make this possible. God bless you. :)
holy bejebus... i've been pulling my hair out trying to find an affordable (damn expensive in UK) place i can have 1-off double sided boards made, but your method is so simple i actually facepalmed myself.... great vid :D i'll be trying this method soon as...
I am getting into electronics and am learning a LOT. This video was great. I know some of the more seasoned veterans of electronics might find some of what you covered as boring or elementary; but to the ones that are just starting out, your videos are full of useful information and ideas! Keep up the good work!
mr carlson, i find your posts very informative and interesting and i have been a practicing electronic enginer for over 50 yrs. However you do have skill of using 3 words when one will do. Sometimes i just wish there was a speed up button. Please ..mostcofvthe people who watch these videos, do have more than a passing knowledge, and you dont need to labour each pearl of wisdom as much as you do.
+neil9 there is actually a speed up button up to 2x speed. now imagine all those video you could have watched much faster. :-) also there is a timeline bar you can fast forward with it. I really don't know why you have a problem with this video but let me tell you the problem is not with the video.
Your boards are so professional I often wondered if you farmed them out to be made. You make some of the best looking boards I have seen. Nice Job Mr Carlson's Lab
I watching again your video and it's so much interesting, I hope I can make it so soon. And I alsi like your laminating machine, I hope you can make it a video of how you did that. Thanks again mr Paul, God bless you more...
Great video. I've been using the lightbox/photoresist technique for years, but definitely will give this method a try. Just an observation, but I find Dremel gear has diminished in quality over the years I would recommend looking at the Proxxon drill & stand (press), they are much more precise and robust, especially for PCB drilling, similar price too. Plenty comparison videos on here worth watching. Thanks for the in-depth tutorial.
A very interesting video, you are a great teacher. I'm watching more than 20 of your videos and it's awesome to me. I didn't finished study in college about electronic long before because of the financial problem but i love electronics.. every time I watching your video, my incouragement is back and i love to learn deeply and much more in troubleshooting. Thanks for your kind.
I don't do this method to transfer the toner but I use a cheap $20 Amazon prime laminator to adhere my negative resist to the circuit board. It works pretty good! P.S. all the same I did get the idea from you. Thanks a billion Paul, as was stated above you are an amazing teacher. I have learned so much from watching your videos.
Hendrik, that's why tinning is imperative. It eliminates copper oxidation, eases solderability and provides better electron traction around tight right-angle turns. Don't know its effectiveness around tight left-angle turns tho...
Great video, and a small working PC attached to the net is one of the most useful tools on my workbench. It's also a source of audio entertainment (old time radio) while working.
I use a normal drill press for this with standard HSS drill bits. I've had absolutely no issues so far, even when the hole in the pad didn't etch properly. I think a full size drill press is a much better option than the Dremel press if you have access to one.
Great video! I have given the toner transfer method a few tries with various paper types but never even got to the etching stage, as I couldn't get a consistent transfer. I was using a cheap clothes iron with the temperature near maximum. The modified laminator seems a much better way of applying the required heat and pressure. It's something I think I should give another try. The best results I had were from photosensitive board, I found that my friend's printer could handle transparencies so repeatably that we could feed the same sheet in a few times and it would over print exactly, making an amazing contrast ratio.
I've just started making my own test boards and I found that the photo paper can be bought in a walmart for around $8 for 50 pages. And better than that is that the small board prints to the center of the page. I found that I can cut the photo paper to a little bigger than the print area, then spray 3M 77 tack spray, one small shot to the back of the photo paper, then place it on the page dead center. The HP printer prints just fine, I have done it many times, and it saves me from wasting the paper. The printer circuit board I scuff with 400 grit, then 600 grit, then clean it with denatured alcohol, or goo-gone works really well. My prints are stuck to the board with a hot iron with steam setting off. I place the board in water and wait a minute or two, then just peel the paper off. I etch the board using acid with some 12% food grade peroxide added, and the board fully etches in a few minutes. I reuse the acid by adding more peroxide, as the peroxide diminishes in strength over a short time. I have glass bottles that hold my acid, which i keep out of reach, and clearly label as dangerous. I'm in the process of making a tinning solution, which I got the plan from RUclips to making the tinning solution. I already had tha acid, so I only needed 95% or better tin, and Tarnex, which has a chemical in it that causes the tin to adhere to the copper , once the tin is dissolved in the acid over night. I'm not so sure i really need to tin boards, but they are much easier to see when they get dense with a circuit. I think the tinning with add strength to the traces as well. I try to route my traces as big as I can, but in many cases, it is not possible to get very big traces.
Now in 2019 i use a laser printer and print onto magazines paper torn from a random glossy magazine. Apply my printed paper onto my circuit board and heat it on with an iron. Allow it to cool and use nail varnish remover to soak the paper off ready for etching
I just use heavy high gloss paper , then use an iron on medium setting and your done. I use this method for making circuit boards for surface mount components. seems to work very well. I enjoyed your video.
I made my own circuit boards back in the 70s. It was all time consuming manual layout back then, using Letraset pc board transfers on plastic sheet. The front and back of the two sided board had to have registration marks and each IC or discrete component was labelled on the board top and bottom. No PCs with pc layout programs or inkjet or laser printers were available to make the pc board pattern back then. Learned it all from scratch... (Yes, I also did walk a mile to school as well before that. ) Had to make resist negatives from the positive layout, so I would take my layout to a local PC maker to make in small batches such as the large LED .747 display for digital clock and frequency counters etc. Back then I was doing a large display panel for the gov't customer and need about a dozen of these displays as well as the discrete counter/LED driver ckt board. Used plated through holes where necessary...a LOT of drilling! I agree that drilling out the tiny holes with a regular Dremel would result in a lot of broken drill bits, so it was essential and cheaper to have a local pc board house etch and drill out the holes as there were a LOT of holes for the 14 and 16 pin TTL digital packages that populated the board. The other thing was that you needed to keep etching solution, around to remove the two sided copper on the G10 glass epoxy board, (ferric chloride, I think) and that was difficult to use in small batches to get perfect edges on the circuit traces without undercut or over etching, so farming it out to a commercial pc maker was the best option and you were guaranteed good results.
SuperCarver2011 How far things have come. If I remember right, walking to school was even tougher in those days, both ways were up hill. LOL! The whole trick to making ferric chloride work well is to warm it up. That little board etched to what you see in 5 minutes. Of course, if you have thicker copper, it's longer. I have some older board with copper so thick, you can catch a fingernail on the etched edge. You can see the copper standing up if you look at the board the right way. That stuff takes about 12 minutes to etch. Years ago, I worked for a company where the owner did much the same in the 70's.I'm glad it's much easier now!!! Thanks for the story!
if you can't get an old projector find the lid from an old scanner which is capable of scanning photographic slides/negatives; the type with a light in them,rig a power supply, either 5v or 12V depending on the scanner.use this to get the registration spot on between layers.
You thought of everything! That liquid tin is pretty awesome. Using the overhead projector as a light box is a great idea. Thanks for sharing and looking forward to the next. You are the master!
Paul, I see that one of your last steps is to remove the paper and the toner or ink was left behind on the substrate. Have you tried acrylic emulsion? It's clear and what you can do is apply the emulsion on to the substrate and then, treating it like glue as it were, apply your page and let it dry. Then using water and a sponge you can remove the paper. Now, this will indeed transfer the toner or ink to almost any surface at all. To be fair, I skimmed the video to get an idea but at 40:47 I thought that this looks very similar to what I described and requires no electricity or lamination. Granted, the transfer method I described will not be as solid as you describe, your process is described as being almost part of the copper. Not sure if what I described will result in that solid a transfer.
I remember in Wisconsin that Break Cleaner was essentially Perchlorethylene, the same thing as dry cleaning fluid. I used it to clean my sons Chain and sprockets on his Shifter Kart. Unfortunately, In California, You can't buy Chlorinated Break Cleaner so you can only get the much more aggressive Non Chlorinated series of chemicals. I just use Acetone for cleaning PCBs but would much rather use Chlorinated Brake Cleaner
Hi, Thanks for the video. I had that TraxMaker program and did a lot of circuits with it. The CircuitMaker side had a neat simulator ! I did try the heat transfer but it wasn't able to make the fine traces and pad outlines I needed for some SMD footprints. I've been using the photo sensitive boards from China on eBay with much better results using HP Transparency film with an inkjet printer. The other thing I found was that when doing double sided boards the thickness of the board sandwiched between two sheets would not keep both sheets dead flat, one would always have less curve than the other an this would offset the vias (.022 dia. , 0.016 dril) drill) from top to bottom especially on boards over 3" square. What I wound up doing was using two glass plates and taping the bottom trace transparency to one and the top trace transparency to the other. Then carefully aligning the plates with a light on one side. Unfortunately you can't use this system with a heat press but it works exceptionally well. We all have the system that works for us and I appreciate everyone's way of accomplishing PCB making but I think if you look into the photo resist you'll find you make better boards faster and with less harsh chemicals. ( I clean the photo resist off the boards with steel wool without using thinner for example) One other not to those printing boards. I first used a laser printer with laser transparency film but found that the laser heat distorted the film and fine vias didn't line up on larger boards. This was a real problem because I CNC my holes with the same drills you use (those are carbide, by the way) and the CNC would drill off center on through holes and vias. One other thing, I know this was just an example board but I always 45 degree my trace corners as it makes stronger traces. Just my way of doing boards, again thanks for the video. Rob
+mosfet500 I also wanted to say the the heat transfer system, any heat transfer system causes expansion. So, by its nature, this limits the size of boards you can make with this system. As I'm sure you know that heat causes distortion. Rob
+Mr Carlson's Lab You're more than welcome. I think some viewers underestimate the time and energy it takes to do these valuable videos, but I always learn something from them and always appreciate them. Rob
The good part about the peroxide + vinegar + non-iodized salt method, is that it can be reused, contrary to what you say, you simply need to add a bit more peroxide, and salt to reinvigorate the solution. The second part, you can use the used peroxide/vinegar+salt solution for electroplating copper.. So the copper you pull off your PCB's can be reused. It's less wasteful. Finally, it's safer.
Very complete instructions, many questions were answer by all the details. Ever tried making smd PCB the same maner for SOIC and SM8 IC's. pretty soon I'll try laser paint/ink removal on PCB and also your method. great work.
Yes I made that error i had a photo of every bicycle and electric bike I had build or worked on over 5 or more years. After a software update lost the lot. Such is life
I saw Big Clive using a guillotine cutter to cut PCBs in one of his recent videos, and it appeared to work quite well for him, perhaps it would save you the trouble of deburring your copperclad.
thanks for the video!!! It is funny 3 days before you posted i was thinking "it would be nice if Mr Carlson would make a few how to videos on making your own PCB's...
Mr Carlson, This is the best video of yours that I have seen so far. I'm wondering more about that laminator, though. You seem to have suggested that you increased its operating temperature somehow, but you were not too specific. I would almost go as far as to say that this laminator needs its own build video. You mentioned an operating temperature of "200-to-210 degrees." Would that have been Celsius or Fahrenheit?
I used to use masking tape and an exacto knife. So much hard work and if the board is left in the solution longer than it needs to be, some of the solution soaks in under the tape and you end up with missing traces. Anyway this is a great video even though I won't be doing anything like this in the future.
i picked up dip trace . learning curve takes a bit to get use too !! but im getting there i need to pick up the dremel press and a laminater and ill be ready i have 4 boards to make .. thanks for giving me some direction
Coming in a bit late to this video. Excellent tutorial on making double sided boards. I'd like to have a go at building some of the brilliant test devices on your patreon channel. I was wondering if I might be able to use a household electric iron for small circuit boards? I have to say, I love your accent Mr Carlson. You remind me very much of my course tutor at university. He is Canadian and is a complete star, an expert in his own field and totally inspiring. Thanks for another fab video. I'm watching your videos cover in the basics as I think I need to build my knowledge, learning to walk before I try to run.
I really do !!! I saw a few were poking fun of you over the capaticer video , I watched that one because I restore ancient radios when I can afford to and I was putting in caps wrong and I now understand why , so please don't stop making these videos !!! Never !! I enjoy the restoration of vintage equipment you do as well it's awesome !!
Dear Paul,
You are the absolute BEST teacher, so calm, methodical, thorough and detailed, always slow and careful but NEVER condescending, nor do you make assumptions of us. God bless you, I hope (and I am SURE) you will prosper and get many, MANY more subscribers and views. You work SO hard, and your videos are worth every second - *time very well invested indeed, on both your part and ours.*
God bless you my friend, Happy Christmas from Matthew, England :)
Thanks for your kind comments Matthew! I'm happy to pass on the knowledge.
Well... he does make assumptions of us, lets not play games here. But he is instructive in all intensive purposes. He knows his shit, the dude payed attention in school, unlike most of you out there. :p
P
Ppp
Ppppppp
This is absolutely the best channel on the internet! Mr. Carlson's calm and thorough narration just keeps pulling me back to watch everything he's ever uploaded!
I've done hundreds of boards and have never heard of the Liquid Tin product. That alone, was worth watching the video. It's always nice to see how other people do things to pick up little tips and tricks. Thanks!
I'm barely qualified to even watch this video but it's really interesting to actually see how this process works. Very educational!
you are totally qualified actually i think 8 year old do it nowadays :D just replace the uv light ,the multiple sheets of paper and the pc program with an iron and and a photocopy or on the other hand a ruler and a sharpie marker covert with liquid paper
YOUR comment was fantastic. Keep watching Mr. Carlson and pretty soon you'll be repairing electrical equipment like myself.
Kind regards Eric Dee
The Vacuum tube junky keep watching and you’ll be burning your fingers on the laminator just like me.
This brought a smile to my face.
This was before the days when UV etching was available to us hobbyists!
Over 35-years ago, I used to design my own circuit boards by hand - using etch resistant transfers. A complex single sided board could take me a few weeks to construct. After etching, the drilling was hand-held with a 1mm drill bit! I always drilled the holes before cleaning the board. My cleaning was soapy water and very fine wet & dry paper.
Software wasn't available in those days - thinking about it, PC's were in their infancy!
Those were very enjoyable days.
I first started trying to do PCBs when I made a "Light Organ" in oh, 2012 or so. I ended up going a much harder route. I used glossy paper out of magazines to print the mask and a clothes iron to transfer. Tip #1 You have to be REALLY careful with an iron, or you will put too much heat in and cause the copper plate to separate from the silicon. Tip #2, if your transfer has a few weak spots you want to touch up, permanent marker will work, especially if it is a non-critical or small spot. Tip #2 Keep close tabs on your PCB when in the etching solution, once it eats the copper way from your masking, it can start to undercut the copper under the mask from the side. Thin traces are really susceptible.... Awesome video(s). I love every one of them.
Great video as usual! 50 years ago when I was etching boards, i used a rotisserie motor from a BBQ and affixed a rod into it that had a U shape close to the end, I then affixes a bolt that had a circle on the end like those used to hang a porch swing, to the ferric oxide bath. Placing the circle end of the bolt into the U shape of the shaft, the slow rotation of the rotisserie would rotate the shaft, translating circular motion into an up/down motion slowly sloshing the FC across the circuit board, this was single sided circuit boards back in the day! We also used a Sharpee like pen to fix any issues with our layout!
Once again; excellent demonstration of the steps required to make a circuit board and finally giving that professional look after tinning, "nicely done".
+John Cunningham
Thanks John!
Mr. Carlson,
This video is easily the most thorough, most informative, and most importantly *most correct* video I've seen on making PCBs on RUclips!
Thank you so much for passing on your knowledge to us much less-experienced! I particularly found your advice on avoiding acetone as well as the liquid tinning solution extremely useful.
This video makes me much more comfortable in giving this a shot. Thanks again!
Hey Paul nice video,
Years ago I worked in auto body repair and used a lot of solvents. The problems you've seen with acetone and laser printer ink are due to the chemical reaction between acetone and the plastic in the ink. Empirically speaking lacquer thinner is much stronger than acetone. There are many times that a paint surface can be cleaned with Acetone without issue but lacquer thinner will cause major chemical reactions.
Also the jobber I used to buy paint supplies from used to tell me that it's important to check if lacquer thinner is sold as virgin. I don't recall the specific reason but I was told that some paint stripping chemicals are known to make it into recycled lacquer thinner. He told me this after I got some of the cheap stuff on my hands and started to get the same kinds of chemical burns I've gotten from aircraft paint strippers (seriously nasty stuff).
Acetone is generally more mild, but it can leach the oils out of your skin. This can lead to immune system issues. I think of solvents in order of strength for urethane/epoxy painting and surface prep in order from weakest to strongest: Water, Car Wash Soaps, Simple Green, Palmolive dish soap, Alcohol/Ammonia, Wax and Grease Remover, Urethane Solvent, Acetone, Lacquer Thinner, Aircraft Quality Paint Stripper, Sand Paper.
All the best, -Jake.
Thanks for your input Jake!
I've recently gotten into electronics and have watched MANY videos on dIy pcb construction. Your procedure by far makes the most sense givin the excellent results you achieve. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience on the subject, I'm looking forward to trying it on my first curcuits.
Holy crap that room looks like an old episode of Startrek with all the testers, I LOVE IT. Thankyou for taking the time to make a great video.
I have only recently discovered your channel, and I am really, REALLY enjoying it. My father ran an electrical repair shop, and also repaired electronic organs and speakers, but I never acquired any of his knowledge; but your videos (among many other things) rekindle early memories of my father deep in the innards of some wonky Wurlitzer, or broken radio. Which is all to say . . . . THANK YOU for creating such watchable and fascinating programs.
You're very welcome!
Great video Paul! The last time I made a circuit board (30 years ago!) I used the photo transfer method. The board was laid out by hand on a transparency sheet, and then the image transferred by shining a light through the transparency onto a circuit board pretreated with a photo-sensitive solution. It looks much, much easier to do this way.
+Rob Clift Down here mass production uses the silk screen method. And I did a simple one 35 years ago.
+Rob Clift ..back in the 70'sI bought a few Heathkits that involved making double sided boards using the photoresist...worked out OK...I even bought a heath kit light timer to use for the exposure
Back in the 80's, A friend and I figured out that we could make hi contrast positives to make light-printed circuit boards. We had trouble with the density of the positives, but by carefully registering two of them, we got rid of that issue. We were eventually able to use this process with positives made from a Kinko's copy shop, and eliminate the darkroom altogether. Good results.
I enjoy your videos a lot. Very informative.
Thanks, and peace :)
Hi Paul, learned a lot from your videos, and want to return a small idea:
every video I watch about the toner transfer for PCB's shows that you have to sand the copper surface to clean, but I really don't like that. It damages the already thin copper layer, often only 35µm.
What I do is clean it with whatever is needed to get visible dirt off, like acetone, or thinner. Then polish the surface with copper- or silver polish, even kitchen stuff like Vim is sometimes usable. You will be left with a clean shining surface. After that, clean it with acetone and you are done.
Only difference compared with sanding is that it takes one minute more hard labour, but I found the result really better. Once tried, I bet you will stick to it.
I've been trying for years to get the toner transfer process to work without success. Paul finally gave me a clue as to what I was doing wrong. Finally this morning I tried passing the "sandwich" through the laminator a number of times and I finally have managed to get a clean transfer of toner onto a board.
Personally, you provide more information for the guy like me, a perpetual novice, than all the other video blogs combined. That is no reflection on others, I it is just how well you present and share the knowledge you own. I dare say, "you have forgotten more than I will ever know".
Thanks,
James Lucas Thanks for the nice comment James!
Wonderful, wonderful video. You know you have become the cat's meow when BlueGlow Electric mentions you in a video !!!
At age 57, I am finally learning about this and building Tube Amp kits. I find that I as very good at melting all the insulation off the wire before I actually get a solder connection. Love to sell my work, but Uncle Fester from the Adam's Family is out of the country :-) Keep up the great video's, they are life savers (literally)
Thanks for your kind words Todd!
A very good presentation, that I would recommend all that are new to PCB making to watch,. However I have been using, a small portion of, Muriatic Acid, mixed with Hydrogen Peroxide, I aerate the mixture with a small Aquarium aerator, to keep it green. I made a gallon of it in a covered glass container, from Wall Mart, Six years ago, and have made hundreds of boards, single, and double sided, with the same solution, and in fact still using it.
Paul, I used this method after buying a cheap laminator and it really works!! Thank You!!
Great! Glad to read it's working well for you.
I have to make sure the laminator is warmed up for at LEAST a half hour or the toner wont transfer, AND soak the paper for at least 5 mins. Thanks again! eh!
I taught a hands on college-electronics course where we disingenuous and fabricated double sided printed circuit boards , then built and tested the circuits. My favorite project in my class was a Theremin. It was a six week period of two hours a day every day each week.
@Cosimo Kramarawicz....can I ask you the name of the college you took your training at? I'm looking for a decent college-electronics venu.
Cheers,
Brian
Brian B. ‘Disingenuous U’
@@HighestRank ......gottcha! I wondered as well...but thought I'd ask, anyway.
That was really informative! Way back when I was in high school we painted the traces by hand using straightened paperclips. I could have only dreamed of getting results that nice :)
WOW! What a tutorial. Very nice. I have to think about this and decide if I want to try it. I do have a laser printer and a laminator that's good for up to 15 mil plastic sleeves, and it gets H-O-T-T, hot! Thanks, Paul. You're the best.
the amount of machines in the intro is out of this world! Why do you need so many!!!
Mr. Carlson Very impressive. Your videos are very detailed and straight to the point. This is one of my favorite RUclips channels by far. I appreciate the time you put into it keep up the good work.
100fcab Thanks for the nice comment! More on the way :^)
Very enjoyable to watch, perfect reference material, I saw how to do this many years ago as a set of pictures with text similar to what has become instructables nowadays but a few crucial steps were not properly explained but THIS is the real deal. Start to finish I'd have no trouble trying this for myself. The custom laminator would be the bottleneck but trial and error is half the fun! Superb tutorial!
Thanks Robert!
This is the video a lot of us have been waiting for. Thanks for a great addition to your series! Now I have to get my shopping list for my wife to pick up supplies :). I will watch this one several times, as I have a number of projects that would benefit from a little circuit board. Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge. I see that your vids are being recommended on other channels. Great stuff!
Stephen Moore Thanks for the kind words Stephen! There are lots of great people here on youtube! I'm just happy to see people benefiting from these video's.
your video really takes me back to the 80's when I made my last PCB's by hand--they were really crappy looking next to yours. I use KiCAD and JLCPCB now and wow was there a lot of learning to use KiCAD but there seems to be some good features and the wait for delivery is ok for me. You are great at what you do!!!
Another great class in Mr C's lab.
Re. working around the tripod, buy or make a T-head. Its just a bar that mounts centered in the tripod's 1/4-20 mount screw. Mount your camera on one end and a counterweight on the other end. This basically offsets the camers from the mass of the tripod and gives yous working room when filming.
davecc0000 he also recently mentioned that his camera’s pretty heavy, so light duty sticks might not support double the weight.
I am a tool and die maker, well precision machinist , and enjoy learning something new everyday. All your videos I watch accomplish that. You just make learning so enjoyable. Thank You Paul for putting so much effort into what you do.
Very good demonstration of making ckt boards at home. I didn't realize that you can
get liquid tin to tin the copper traces. I usually farmed out my ckt boards and had the
pc board place tin them for me as the plated through holes required a special process
in any case to deposit copper inside the drilled out hole and then tin plate it, another
step that was best left to the more experienced.
SuperCarver2011 That's the only downside to this, "no plated thru-holes" But.... I don't mind, I just solder it on both sides. For the via's, I use a small diameter wire ".020" and do the same. Thanks for your comment.
It's probably the best video about etching boards I've seen so far! Your simple idea for aligning double sided boards is great. I would love to see how you converted your laminator into this beast.
ElectronFun.com One day I may do a video on the laminator.... I admit, it's a pain to take apart though. Thanks for the nice comment!
There is a video on his Patreon where he takes us inside this laminator. It is not a build video (the machine is old and discontinued and the parts were what he had laying around).
Genius way of creating boards man! You’re very good at thinking outside the box
Excellent video Mr Carlson on designing and making double sided printed circuit boards. I have always wanted to get into making printed circuit boards. You did a very good job in your explanation from start to finish. I have a subwoofer amplifier board that I am currently working on which uses two IC type amplifier chips (7379 four channel ) from a five speaker surround sound system. During the removal process the foil copper paths and eyelets was lifted up from excessive heat during the desoldering process. I would love to be able to reproduce the printed circuit board and after watching your video I feel confident in during so. I do have most of the tools such as Dremel, printed circuit board drill bits, laminator, inkjet Hp printer. I Don’t have the press and stand for my Dremel but will get it and the host of other items enumerated. I use to work in aerospace as an technician maintaining CNC and NC mills, plotters, motor controllers and C programming. I recall one vender in a seminar that brought in a small 3 axis drill and mill set up similar to a plotter that could do the same job under the control of software designed for the particular job. That would be ideal for a job such as this which is what is actually used in the manufacturing process in large companies that manufacture printed circuit boards. The chemicals such as the etching solution and silver plating is where I need to research and do my homework for the purpose of safety such as the material data safety sheets. Really enjoy your videos and since we share in our technical background some similarities such as vacuum tube technology we are probably around the same age. Keep up the good work.
Wow what a great finish to the PCB very interesting.
I watch this vid some years ago and then the entire vid again today. Outstanding instruction and presentation.
I'm not in the position to 'Gear-Up' with all the equipment Paul uses. Regardless, Paul's vid is inspirational and much of his process is applicable to alternate methodes of fusing the trace images.
Paul, this is an outstanding presentation. Thank you Muchly....
"..here's the laminator I built.."
Oh, if course! How could I have thought otherwise? (He said with nothing but abject admiration and wonder of Mr Carlson's incredible talents!)
Hi Paul
I finally did it - toner transfer sucess on the third try. Its all down to the paper in the end - at least for me.
found a glossy photo paper for inkjets. Its dirt cheap - 12 sheets for one UK pound. Sorry dont know what that
is in dollars. I dont have a laminator - used the trusty clothes iron. Man had to press real hard and rub like crazy.
First i placed the iron flat on all over the board to let it stick down. Then i rubbed all over with the edge.
Then i wet a paper towel and steamed it three times to soften the backing paper. Then i dried it by placing iron on flat.
Finally i rubbed it all over with just the tip. I kept peeling back a small section to see if it had fully transfered.
I cooled it very fast by dumping into cold water then peeled the paper off. Had to scrub in hot water to remove all the residue.
Im very happy that i watched your vid. It helped a lot. Will never do photo resist ever again.
I dont know how to attach pics to this so i cant let you see the results.
Many Thanks. Keep up the good work.
Now wheres that smd circuit i was trying - ha ha
I have found that at the PCB cleaning stage it's really useful to rub the plate with ordinary kitchen salt (sodium chloride), as this removes copper oxides really fast, thus entirely avoiding the need to sand. Of course, you still need to degrease. Excellent video, keep up the good work!
+Francisc Gedeon
Thanks for the tip Francisc!
The laminator is great. I just use a hot iron on an ironing board, with a thin linen dishtowel between the iron and the printed circuit/copper plate. It works well for single sided pcbs and can be used for double sided pcbs (just flip it over and iron the other side) but having said that, this moded laminator is clever. Nice job. [edit: Ferric Chloride is nasty...but the tinning solution is v dangerous if ingested hence the safety advice of Mr Carlson should be taken seriously - only attempt if you have the expertise, safe working area and correct safety equipment - having said which it is wonderful to make your own pcbs].
Paul I agree with the subscriber unlokia you are a very patient and very good teacher which this world needs badly. I enjoy your videos to get very good tips and most importantly safety tips
Thanks Don!
Mr. Carlson is the best friend of the old machines!
Thanks I always wanted to make my own circuit board, now I know how.
This looks like an excellent technique, I haven't made any PCBs for years. This looks a very viable and accurate method. Thank you for making this excellent tutorial.
David Lisney No problem David, glad you enjoyed!
After Alan at W2AEW, you are the second person whose videos I love to watch. Though your videos are bit lengthy but I always enjoy and learn from your soft, calm and detailed explanations. Moreover, English is my second language; I learn a lot of spoken English from you.
Really enjoyed this video, Paul!
I would very much want a video about that laminator.
Keeping my hopes up! :)
Great work as usual!
Thanks!
I regret I cannot help you deal with those three (at the present time) unfortunate souls who put thumbs down on this, or any of your videos as I am too busy building/fixing things except when its too cold, then I am in here watching and learning from you!
Colin Lark Thanks Colin, I pay no attention to the thumbs down at all. Glad your enjoying the video's, more on the way :^)
Thanks for taking the time to present really decent and informative information to us all. I picked a tile cutter at a garage sale, the diamond blade type. Fast and accurate cuts, I don't use water during the process so I wear a good quality dust mask.
John Jewel Thanks John!
Laminator is cool, but using heat transfer paper with an iron is much cheaper. Also you can print both sides of the board on 1 heat transfer so their mirror images of each other and then fold the heat transfer over your board... Saves you from buying a laminator and projector. I mean if you have the cash to do so sure, great idea. But Im a poor engineering student and transfer paper and an iron works for now.
Hey, what kind of Transfer Paper do you mean? I cant find something similar here in Germany?
Had a Laminator Construction but it broke down (in fact it was a normal Laminator without Housing etc and taken the Temperature Sensor off and i put a Thermometer instead on and watched by my self - but some day my plastics were broke of - i think they didn't like the heat and got brittle...)
Now i'm just getting back to the electronics thing and would like to make my circuit Boards again - but if there is a way without a laminator it would be great :)
folded. thats it. i always get unmatching mirrored holes liek ·.
Christian Schmidt Search eBay for PCB Heat transfer paper. Many suppliers and sizes should come up
Iron alone touches only several spots of the board, in order to reliably press all surface of paper to the board you have to put iron upside down and roll with rubber roller on top of the board, which is kinda bulky, dangerous and not comfortable to do, this is where laminator is such a nice tool. I used iron before but after I modified laminator i never look back to iron times :-)
folding always introduces errors... so some people prefer not to do it that way
Very informative video, just never heard of liquid TIN . That's new thing . I was watching for double side PCB. As I am going to make for first time . I got new things to learn. Thanks 😊
Excellent!!! Thank you so much for considering our request in making your own PCB tutorial. It helps a lot for a beginner in electronics like me. I know it's not easy to prepare this kind of video and I really appreciate so much sharing your precious time and effort to make this possible. God bless you. :)
Hi'gak Iya Thanks! ...And right back at ya! ;^)
holy bejebus... i've been pulling my hair out trying to find an affordable (damn expensive in UK) place i can have 1-off double sided boards made, but your method is so simple i actually facepalmed myself.... great vid :D i'll be trying this method soon as...
I am getting into electronics and am learning a LOT. This video was great. I know some of the more seasoned veterans of electronics might find some of what you covered as boring or elementary; but to the ones that are just starting out, your videos are full of useful information and ideas! Keep up the good work!
Thanks, glad you enjoyed!
Alignment technique is just genious. Thanks for sharing man.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed!
mr carlson, i find your posts very informative and interesting and i have been a practicing electronic enginer for over 50 yrs. However you do have skill of using 3 words when one will do. Sometimes i just wish there was a speed up button. Please ..mostcofvthe people who watch these videos, do have more than a passing knowledge, and you dont need to labour each pearl of wisdom as much as you do.
neil9 actually, Neil, I'm in the category of folks that needs every pearl in detail. Love your videos as is, Mr Carlson! 😉
I think after 50 years you can now stop practicing and start doing it properly!
:-P ;-)
hehe. Messing about, couldn't resist!
***** Very good!! 😁
+neil9 there is actually a speed up button up to 2x speed. now imagine all those video you could have watched much faster. :-) also there is a timeline bar you can fast forward with it. I really don't know why you have a problem with this video but let me tell you the problem is not with the video.
3 repetitions for the memorialized evergreen.
Your boards are so professional I often wondered if you farmed them out to be made. You make some of the best looking boards I have seen. Nice Job Mr Carlson's Lab
me3333 Thanks for the nice comment! The secret is the "Hot Rod" laminator :^)
Thank you. This process looks relatively easy, and makes pretty good looking boards.
+Pete Ciallella Thanks for your comment Pete!
This was very pleasently explained. Thank you, Mr Carlson!
I watching again your video and it's so much interesting, I hope I can make it so soon. And I alsi like your laminating machine, I hope you can make it a video of how you did that. Thanks again mr Paul, God bless you more...
Great video. I've been using the lightbox/photoresist technique for years, but definitely will give this method a try.
Just an observation, but I find Dremel gear has diminished in quality over the years I would recommend looking at the Proxxon drill & stand (press), they are much more precise and robust, especially for PCB drilling, similar price too. Plenty comparison videos on here worth watching. Thanks for the in-depth tutorial.
A very interesting video, you are a great teacher. I'm watching more than 20 of your videos and it's awesome to me. I didn't finished study in college about electronic long before because of the financial problem but i love electronics.. every time I watching your video, my incouragement is back and i love to learn deeply and much more in troubleshooting. Thanks for your kind.
Great job, learned much. Thank you for taking the time to put this tutorial together for us.
+Tech Chuck Legg
Glad you enjoyed the video Chuck!
I don't do this method to transfer the toner but I use a cheap $20 Amazon prime laminator to adhere my negative resist to the circuit board. It works pretty good!
P.S. all the same I did get the idea from you. Thanks a billion Paul, as was stated above you are an amazing teacher. I have learned so much from watching your videos.
Won't the electrons fly off when they make a 90° corner?
Thanks for yet another very informative video!
Nope, they'll just bounce off and reverse polarity then flow back up.
It's always neat to see those old hand-drawn PCB's with nice curved traces. hehe. Totally unnecessary today of course, apart from the eye candy
board manufactures in the 1970's mastered this, they made race tracks. No 90's to be seen. ;)
Hendrik, that's why tinning is imperative. It eliminates copper oxidation, eases solderability and provides better electron traction around tight right-angle turns.
Don't know its effectiveness around tight left-angle turns tho...
Moggie2017A *affect
Great video, and a small working PC attached to the net is one of the most useful tools on my workbench. It's also a source of audio entertainment (old time radio) while working.
Hi, in the 79's double-sided designs used to be blue and red, I do like the toner approach beats photo-resist and UV lights
I use a normal drill press for this with standard HSS drill bits. I've had absolutely no issues so far, even when the hole in the pad didn't etch properly. I think a full size drill press is a much better option than the Dremel press if you have access to one.
Great video!
I have given the toner transfer method a few tries with various paper types but never even got to the etching stage, as I couldn't get a consistent transfer.
I was using a cheap clothes iron with the temperature near maximum.
The modified laminator seems a much better way of applying the required heat and pressure.
It's something I think I should give another try.
The best results I had were from photosensitive board, I found that my friend's printer could handle transparencies so repeatably that we could feed the same sheet in a few times and it would over print exactly, making an amazing contrast ratio.
Simon Parkinson Thanks for your comment Simon!
I like the neatness of the board and the tinting at the end makes it even needier. Thank you very much for doing this video. 73's
Ruben Glad you enjoyed Ruben :^)
The liquid tin is a very useful tip for maritime use, even though I still cover my pcbs with acrylic conforming coating. Thanks for sharing...
Yann Kitson Glad you enjoyed Yann!
I've just started making my own test boards and I found that the photo paper can be bought in a walmart for around $8 for 50 pages. And better than that is that the small board prints to the center of the page. I found that I can cut the photo paper to a little bigger than the print area, then spray 3M 77 tack spray, one small shot to the back of the photo paper, then place it on the page dead center. The HP printer prints just fine, I have done it many times, and it saves me from wasting the paper. The printer circuit board I scuff with 400 grit, then 600 grit, then clean it with denatured alcohol, or goo-gone works really well. My prints are stuck to the board with a hot iron with steam setting off. I place the board in water and wait a minute or two, then just peel the paper off. I etch the board using acid with some 12% food grade peroxide added, and the board fully etches in a few minutes. I reuse the acid by adding more peroxide, as the peroxide diminishes in strength over a short time. I have glass bottles that hold my acid, which i keep out of reach, and clearly label as dangerous. I'm in the process of making a tinning solution, which I got the plan from RUclips to making the tinning solution. I already had tha acid, so I only needed 95% or better tin, and Tarnex, which has a chemical in it that causes the tin to adhere to the copper , once the tin is dissolved in the acid over night. I'm not so sure i really need to tin boards, but they are much easier to see when they get dense with a circuit. I think the tinning with add strength to the traces as well. I try to route my traces as big as I can, but in many cases, it is not possible to get very big traces.
Thanks for the tutorial. I don't plan on making any circuit boards in the near future, but it sure was awesome to watch the process!
THANK YOU!!! I think your vids are THE BEST tech vids; ON Utube ,, or any other site I've seen!!
Now in 2019 i use a laser printer and print onto magazines paper torn from a random glossy magazine. Apply my printed paper onto my circuit board and heat it on with an iron. Allow it to cool and use nail varnish remover to soak the paper off ready for etching
WOW !!! I will thank You forever for this video!
You're very welcome!
led under the drill press, great idea. why did'nt this already came to my mind......
+Mirko Mueller
That LED make all the difference! Try it.
Because most drills have prefocused offset lights installed.
I just use heavy high gloss paper , then use an iron on medium setting and your done. I use this method for making circuit boards for surface mount components. seems to work very well. I enjoyed your video.
Thanks!
I made my own circuit boards back in the 70s.
It was all time consuming manual layout back then, using Letraset pc board transfers on plastic sheet. The front and back of the two sided board had to have registration marks and each IC or discrete component was labelled on the board top and bottom.
No PCs with pc layout programs or inkjet or laser printers were available to make the pc board pattern back then.
Learned it all from scratch... (Yes, I also did walk a mile to school as well before that. )
Had to make resist negatives from the positive layout, so I would take my layout to a local PC maker to make in small batches such as the large LED .747 display for digital clock and frequency counters etc. Back then I was doing a large display panel for the gov't customer and need about a dozen of these displays as well as the discrete counter/LED driver ckt board.
Used plated through holes where necessary...a LOT of drilling!
I agree that drilling out the tiny holes with a regular Dremel would result in a lot of broken drill bits, so it was essential and cheaper to have a local pc board house etch and drill out the holes as there were a LOT of holes for the 14 and 16 pin TTL
digital packages that populated the board.
The other thing was that you needed to keep etching solution, around to remove the two sided copper on the G10 glass epoxy board, (ferric chloride, I think) and that was difficult to use in small batches to get perfect edges on the circuit traces without undercut or over etching, so farming it out to a commercial pc maker was the best option and you were guaranteed good results.
SuperCarver2011 How far things have come. If I remember right, walking to school was even tougher in those days, both ways were up hill. LOL! The whole trick to making ferric chloride work well is to warm it up. That little board etched to what you see in 5 minutes. Of course, if you have thicker copper, it's longer. I have some older board with copper so thick, you can catch a fingernail on the etched edge. You can see the copper standing up if you look at the board the right way. That stuff takes about 12 minutes to etch. Years ago, I worked for a company where the owner did much the same in the 70's.I'm glad it's much easier now!!! Thanks for the story!
Hi Paul, truly thankful to see your knowledge, and the video is super!
You're welcome Tony!
if you can't get an old projector find the lid from an old scanner which is capable of scanning photographic slides/negatives; the type with a light in them,rig a power supply, either 5v or 12V depending on the scanner.use this to get the registration spot on between layers.
You thought of everything! That liquid tin is pretty awesome. Using the overhead projector as a light box is a great idea. Thanks for sharing and looking forward to the next. You are the master!
Darryl Landry Thanks for the nice comment Darryl!
Mr Carlson's Lab If I could give you two thumbs up I would!
Thanks again Darryl!
Paul, I see that one of your last steps is to remove the paper and the toner or ink was left behind on the substrate. Have you tried acrylic emulsion? It's clear and what you can do is apply the emulsion on to the substrate and then, treating it like glue as it were, apply your page and let it dry. Then using water and a sponge you can remove the paper. Now, this will indeed transfer the toner or ink to almost any surface at all. To be fair, I skimmed the video to get an idea but at 40:47 I thought that this looks very similar to what I described and requires no electricity or lamination. Granted, the transfer method I described will not be as solid as you describe, your process is described as being almost part of the copper. Not sure if what I described will result in that solid a transfer.
I remember in Wisconsin that Break Cleaner was essentially Perchlorethylene, the same thing as dry cleaning fluid. I used it to clean my sons Chain and sprockets on his Shifter Kart. Unfortunately, In California, You can't buy Chlorinated Break Cleaner so you can only get the much more aggressive Non Chlorinated series of chemicals. I just use Acetone for cleaning PCBs but would much rather use Chlorinated Brake Cleaner
Hi,
Thanks for the video. I had that TraxMaker program and did a lot of circuits with it. The CircuitMaker side had a neat simulator !
I did try the heat transfer but it wasn't able to make the fine traces and pad outlines I needed for some SMD footprints. I've been using the photo sensitive boards from China on eBay with much better results using HP Transparency film with an inkjet printer.
The other thing I found was that when doing double sided boards the thickness of the board sandwiched between two sheets would not keep both sheets dead flat, one would always have less curve than the other an this would offset the vias (.022 dia. , 0.016 dril) drill) from top to bottom especially on boards over 3" square.
What I wound up doing was using two glass plates and taping the bottom trace transparency to one and the top trace transparency to the other. Then carefully aligning the plates with a light on one side. Unfortunately you can't use this system with a heat press but it works exceptionally well.
We all have the system that works for us and I appreciate everyone's way of accomplishing PCB making but I think if you look into the photo resist you'll find you make better boards faster and with less harsh chemicals. ( I clean the photo resist off the boards with steel wool without using thinner for example)
One other not to those printing boards. I first used a laser printer with laser transparency film but found that the laser heat distorted the film and fine vias didn't line up on larger boards. This was a real problem because I CNC my holes with the same drills you use (those are carbide, by the way) and the CNC would drill off center on through holes and vias.
One other thing, I know this was just an example board but I always 45 degree my trace corners as it makes stronger traces.
Just my way of doing boards, again thanks for the video.
Rob
+mosfet500
Thanks for taking the time to write.
+mosfet500
I also wanted to say the the heat transfer system, any heat transfer system causes expansion. So, by its nature, this limits the size of boards you can make with this system. As I'm sure you know that heat causes distortion.
Rob
+Mr Carlson's Lab
You're more than welcome. I think some viewers underestimate the time and energy it takes to do these valuable videos, but I always learn something from them and always appreciate them.
Rob
I also barberchair the trees I fell as it makes them weaker.🔄🔁↔️
The good part about the peroxide + vinegar + non-iodized salt method, is that it can be reused, contrary to what you say, you simply need to add a bit more peroxide, and salt to reinvigorate the solution.
The second part, you can use the used peroxide/vinegar+salt solution for electroplating copper.. So the copper you pull off your PCB's can be reused. It's less wasteful.
Finally, it's safer.
+ArcAiN6 Thanks for your comment!
Very complete instructions, many questions were answer by all the details.
Ever tried making smd PCB the same maner for SOIC and SM8 IC's.
pretty soon I'll try laser paint/ink removal on PCB and also your method.
great work.
+Jack Berg
Thanks Jack!
Yes I made that error i had a photo of every bicycle and electric bike I had build or worked on over 5 or more years. After a software update lost the lot. Such is life
I saw Big Clive using a guillotine cutter to cut PCBs in one of his recent videos, and it appeared to work quite well for him, perhaps it would save you the trouble of deburring your copperclad.
+RecurveNinja
Thanks for your input!
thanks for the video!!!
It is funny 3 days before you posted i was thinking "it would be nice if Mr Carlson would make a few how to videos on making your own PCB's...
Matt K It's because I had my mind reading machine pointed your way :^) Thanks for the nice comment Matt!
Berni Kendrick.............Excellent video Mr. Carlson I shall follow your example. Thank you.
berni ken Thanks for your comment berni!
Mr Carlson, This is the best video of yours that I have seen so far. I'm wondering more about that laminator, though. You seem to have suggested that you increased its operating temperature somehow, but you were not too specific. I would almost go as far as to say that this laminator needs its own build video.
You mentioned an operating temperature of "200-to-210 degrees." Would that have been Celsius or Fahrenheit?
Hi Bruce, that's degrees C.
I used to use masking tape and an exacto knife. So much hard work and if the board is left in the solution longer than it needs to be, some of the solution soaks in under the tape and you end up with missing traces. Anyway this is a great video even though I won't be doing anything like this in the future.
You're very good teacher !
Thank You Eddy!
i picked up dip trace . learning curve takes a bit to get use too !! but im getting there i need to pick up the dremel press and a laminater and ill be ready
i have 4 boards to make .. thanks for giving me some direction
+wizzkidelectronics Hey, Glad to help!
That's slick and you explained it perfectly. Now if only I knew something - anything - about circuits. 😜 But we're loving the videos!
Very nice video. it is definitely a good step by step know how to design circuit boards.
Wonderful video! Thank you so much.
Coming in a bit late to this video. Excellent tutorial on making double sided boards. I'd like to have a go at building some of the brilliant test devices on your patreon channel. I was wondering if I might be able to use a household electric iron for small circuit boards?
I have to say, I love your accent Mr Carlson. You remind me very much of my course tutor at university. He is Canadian and is a complete star, an expert in his own field and totally inspiring.
Thanks for another fab video. I'm watching your videos cover in the basics as I think I need to build my knowledge, learning to walk before I try to run.
Thanks for your kind comment Sophie!
I really enjoy these videos because you explain everything and show why awesome job !!!
Glad your enjoying Daniel!
I really do !!! I saw a few were poking fun of you over the capaticer video , I watched that one because I restore ancient radios when I can afford to and I was putting in caps wrong and I now understand why , so please don't stop making these videos !!! Never !! I enjoy the restoration of vintage equipment you do as well it's awesome !!