My husband, a certified climbing arborist of 30+ years, and I recently subscribed to your channel and enjoy your videos very much. We especially appreciate and applaud your efforts to share with others your knowledge and expertise in proper, safe tree care and felling techniques and practices. Also appreciated is your calm yet thorough and precise approach to the handling of misperceptions,, misunderstandings or questions among those who view your videos. A ready answer is a sign of true knowledge. From Colorado, USA.
@@mudjackson1737 I see that your question is from 2 years ago, but I'll answer it anyway. My husband, working independently, charges $200.00 an hour on average. Sometimes more, depending on the complexity of the job.
I was running this saw for about 2 hours at about a 30-50% duty cycle ruclips.net/user/postUgkxfQm1wmg0ItKDLavxj1nXtQY9HP7EF504 and it did a great job. I used the lever for the built in sharpener to clear chip buildup out more than to actually sharpen the chain. It managed to cut some hardwood stumps much larger than it's size without bothering the neighbors with hours of 2 stroke noise.
cutting trees that cut technic gets used rarely, loghouse building with chainsaws you learn it right away, you go in with the pulling side of the chain on an angle then slowly work your way to having the saw on right angle with the log and you can saw without worring about the kickback.
Yeah just randomly found a video from these guys the other day saying your back cut should always be level with your bottom cut... Sure if your felling for board feet and don't care about having a decent stump shot to stop the tree from jumping back on you...
I support you on this one. Although I teach new sawyers to avoid using the tip of the bar, I encourage more experienced sawyers to do so the way you did, easing into it. Boring into the tree opens up a larger array of felling methods that provide greater control of the tree's fall, and more room to make adjustments. Best wishes and happy felling!
Chainsaw brand matters yeah but the person using it is the real kicker. My mS170 has treated me so well. Doesn't take a lot of maintenance depending on what a lot is. But I'm guessing if that's too much for anybody then they have never taken down a tree big enough to know that honestly, tree removal is an art
I really appreciate you taking the time to "explain" the procedure that you performed. Not having the tree in the way in this video makes for easy visual aide in observing exactly what it is that you did. IF anyone has a problem with this video, it is because their vision is beyond help, blinded by their own bias. Thank you for persevering past the negative comments and giving cheerful instruction. GOD BLESS you and your family in all that you are doing. Greetings from the high country in Arizona, USA
When I worked for the tree service, the general "policy" was to never cut with the top of the bar. That policy was there because a lot of our guys had never used a chainsaw before, so they wouldn't know how to prevent kickback. Those of us who had years of experience knew - as you do - that there are always exceptions to the rules, and sometimes using the top of the bar is exactly what you need.
Thanks for explanation. I've cut a bit over the years clearing dead wood for trail and fire wood. My sawing has advanced greatly over the past few years and I'm learning as much as possible of how to be more efficient and safer. I just recently purchased new protective equipment and mill.
I love your channel, and think that experience is always the best teacher. If you were taught that way, then it is correct for you. Do not even have a seconds hezitation about what negative comments are said. You keep on going Simeon. Kudos to you and your wife. Keep it up.
Thank you for your excellent content. Some folks want attention, especially armchair loggers. Since they don’t have any actual practical advice to share, they bark about safety; playing “gotcha” validates them. You responded like a pro, keep up the good work.
It's called a bore cut and you did it exactly how you're supposed to do it. It's actually a really useful way of setting up your hinge perfectly BEFORE cutting from the back. Some people just cut straight from the back. Well done on educating everyone on what you actually did.
I have to dive cut all the time with a large tree that is leaning real bad. If the back cut can not be done fast enough to keep the tree from barber chairing then I dive cut the tip of the saw strait in parallel to the hinge and then cut backwards. I leave a couple inches on the outside until I am ready to fell the tree. I also often have to d a similar thing when bucking a large log. A logger/ feller cuts into the tree using the tip in a variety of ways and yes it will kick back if not done right. I have seen you and your brother work in the woods and it is evident that you know what you are doing and are quite professional. Nice explanation. When I was a firemen years ago they would not let you climb a ladder by yourself. Someone had to hold the ladder lol. They would have freaked out if they saw what we did in construction and mill writing standing on nothing or tree climbing and felling. I love your homestead brother. Have a blessed day!
Literally learnt how to enter a cut by the top of the bar by the age of 21 due to the fact my father had been a logger and taught me at a professional level. I've been lucky in that sense
Thanks for clarifying your technique. I invested in a decent pair of chaps, as well...as I think my legs are worth more than the $100 I paid for them. Stay safe.
Dude... It be honest it looked to me like you started the back cut with the top side of the chain then brought the back of the saw down and drove the tip into the tree. The only time I've ever done anything like that was while logging a 4-6 ft diameter trees that were being felled with the stump attached by a big cat loader. So your saw wont get pinched due to odd pressure because of the stump still being attached you would leave a section still connected inside the cut. That being said I still never did anything like what I just watch in that video... Good Luck Man.
It’s fine and dandy for fear know what to expect and you have small chainsaws but for general guidelines that is riskier than entering it on the bottom of the tip of the blade first and then inserting it
This explanation/demo' you give is quite correct, as you say, you must have correct tuition / experience . tuition / knowledge is so important even for the most basic of chainsaw use.......you only have to watch "chainsaw fails" on RUclips to see what happens with lack of knowledge ..
My dream to come to Sweden one day just to watch you and your brother work one day in the Forrest. That would be the ultimate trip/ learning experience.
I always knew it would teach me something. I did go back and watch the other video, the original, and my family are generations of loggers in the US. I did notice you gave way for the bar in the first video. And then did the back cuts. Although, I don't agree it's the best method or technique but it is effective, obviously. I'll try it the next time. One can't truly make an honest comment without trying right? Great videos. I look forward to your RUclips uploads.
I went and looked at the other video and he is 100% correct. He entered the bar from the pushing side of the tip and the stuck it in, just like he said in his explaination here. Well ✔ done.
The only thing wrong with that vide was the conventional facecut. The open face offers the most control because the tree is almost in contact with the ground before the hinge breaks. The people complaining about your bore have never been trained properly, it is hands down the safest way to fell a tree.
+Luke Murchie both the A + B Chainsaw Modules taught in Germany ... [ acknowledged + certified by the SVLFG ] ...use, teach and train their participants to, utilizing the bore cut. - as you stated, " it is hands down the safest way to fell a tree. "
While I agree that an open faced notch or a humbolt notch a preferable most of the time, a conventional notch has its uses. Especially if you want the tree to pop off the hinge away from the stump. Plunge cuts are also useful but only for experienced operators. I only use when felling trees with a severe lean. Helps prevent barber chairing.
Hey, haters gonna hate from the professional side in the woods, bore cutting is part of normal life, if u got one that leans hard and u can't face it normal and back cut, u face it and bore cut to leave a trigger on the stump till she's ready to go and then she will pop, without u barber chairing the tree u did fine my friend, don't worry about there comments
Great explanation. I almost always use a boring technique for felling. I have never started with the top of the bar but when bucking I often do and entering the tree like you describe doesn’t cause kickback. I still think starting with the bottom is safer because if it does kick back it will be away from you. If a mistake is made when starting on top it’s coming toward you. Cutting with top just behind the nose takes significant “feel” to do safely not for first timers!
The way you bored into that tree was perfectly safe there wasn't a possibility of kickback and it was evident you moved around to line the saw up. If you had just pushed it into the tree you wouldnt have needed to reposition yourself. BEAUTIFULLY CUT
Game of Logging teaches this "boring" cut technique, Scandinavian techniques. One uses the bottom, or top, of the chain to make a slicing cut. Then, when it is safe - the tip is "anchored" in place, one rotates the saw to bore through the tree with the tip.
Just re-watched the video. You did a simple plunge cut, and did is well. Some people just like to find fault with others. Usually the ones complaining don't know how to do the work themselves.
I'm a great fan of plunge/bore cuts, both for leaners (to avoid a barber chair) and for non-leaners so that I have plenty of time to set everything up nicely (maybe wedges, maybe tapered hinge, general safety). But I've only ever started with the bottom of the tip and never with the top. Here's a question: if you get it a bit wrong on a horizontal bore cut starting with the bottom of the tip, the saw will kick to the right. Does that mean that if you get it a bit wrong using the top of the tip then the saw will kick to the left instead?
I watched the other video you may have not used the complete tip but really close, I would not use that method. I would use a lot less of the tip for safety speed I could care less. But you are correct you did not just use tip and drive it in thankfully. Also turn the idle down on that saw. It should not require the brake to keep chain from rotating. I am not a pro but like you have fell many trees do to burning wood for heat. And Sweden USA Country does not matter if you know how to do it then you do :)
Your talking about a plunge cut. Sometimes it is necessary especially if the tree is much thicker than the length of the bar on your saw. The trick to safe plunge cuts is don't hold the throttle wide open when starting. Also angle the saw so that when the tip of the chain begins to "crawl" it has to force the saw back against its length. With low RPMs and holding the saw securely, instead of the crawling action pushing your saw away at an angle it instead forces the tip into the tree. I have cut back the drags on my chain so that it can take bigger bites. The trade-off of course is that "kicking and binding can be a problem if you initially start your cuts too aggressively. The plus side is that just the weight of the saw is sufficient enough down force to cut rapidly and all I do is basically hold saw firmly and let it do "all" the work. With cut down chain drags, I have to be especially gentle when beginning a plunge cut. If not the tip of the saw will keep hopping off the tree. I do not advocate shimming down the drags on a chain unless the operator is very experienced. There is a balance that has to be achieved between the bite depth of the chain and the power of the saw engine. Too much bite and you get constant bogging issues. Too little bite and your chainsaw screams all day but you get little wood cut for the day. The best saw I own, and my favorite, is a little 16" Echo EVL-??? that my parents bought about 45 years ago. I changed it over to an 20 inch because it was a waste to have a 16 inch on it. It has more than enough engine for the 20 inch and it runs circles around any other saw I've seen or owned. Did I tell you that it's like 45 years old? I've never had to do any repairs other than replacing the bar and chain every ten years or so and of course routine maintenance like chain sharpening and cleaning. It has never failed me in all those years. I did once, had to wind on another pull rope but that was like a ten minute job. Conservatively I estimate that I've cut down three hundred maybe three hundred fifty trees with it "mostly huge trees", not to mention countless hours of brush cutting. For the last 17 years I have heated my home with wood. Every year I use my Echo EVL and it always does a fantastic job. I think the key to its longevity, is not running it wide open all the time, like I have seen too many others do. If it's cutting just as well at 3/4 or 1/2 throttle than at full throttle, why run it at full throttle? Have fun an be safe.
I was wondering after that video if a backcut plunge was safe... I am not a expert, thanks for the clarification. I'm still not going to plunge that way...
One should never bypass the safety feature: instead to make the side/plunge cut switch hands so your right hand is behind the safety brake and left is on the throttle. Make your felling cut high enough to be able to do this.
You weren't wrong. I will point out that kickback occurs because as the chain passes the tip the rakers (which determine the size of the wood chips) essentially do nothing. Therefore the saw will not have enough power to cut a bigger wood chip, causing kickback. Good videos
Just looked at your old video - got to say I'm not convinced, @10:12 it's the top half of the tip you are using to start the cut, or at least that's what it looks like from the camera angle.
I was trained to turn it before entering. This means when your chain is in the tree you are safe. Although if last resort a plunge cut can be safe if done properly
In my state in order to cut timber commercially you need to take a chain saw safety class in order to be licensed and insured. They teach the bore or plunge cut in this class. I'm not a big fan of it but occasionally use it.
The problem with chainsaw kickback is users have not experienced it ... I learned to chainsaw at 9 years old with an old blue Homelight and a long 36" bar and it had no kickback arrester and no auto oil feed you had to keep your right hand thumb free, to oil the chain manually .. it was HEAVY and I weighed maybe 70 pounds ... I kept the chain VERY sharp and the rakers (or depth gauges) a bit shorter then usual (I learned to sharpen the chain at 6 years old, my dad taught me all this.) I often cut from underneath the logs, using the chains inherent kickback to LIFT the bar into the wood by plunging the tip in under the log, this negated the saws weight and gave me a few minutes rest while cutting the families fire wood. Hence the bar kicked back occasionally and I learned to control it .. the heavy saw reduced the kickback and made it slower, ironical small light chainsaw can be more dangerous to use ... I still use my chains saws in this manner and can under cut wood with one hand hanging from a tree branch :) I never heard about the danger of saw kick back until I bought a new saw with a tip guard on it ... which I threw away at first use :)
Doing it with a pulling chain (the "bottom" of the chain) is very safe, and is one of the first things you learn in chainsaw classes in Sweden. I learned it in school. The pushing (top) half of the tip is the dangerous part that will make your saw kick.
Yes, I learned this here in Sweden as well when I got my certification and my mistake was not using that in the first video where I wanted to give a basic and safe instruction for a safe felling. The technique I demonstrate in this video is something that later on experienced loggers and my brother have taught me. You see when a saw is inside a tree the tip of the bar also is in contact with the tree but there is no kick back because the saw can't go anywhere. The same principle is what applies here. If held in the right angle the bar can't go anywhere (no kick back) because the tree is in the way. But again, I should not have used this in the instructional video.
Yeah, I think I may have been one of the people who pointed this out in the video. I'm sure it's a safe and useful technique when done right, but as you say it may not be recommended for beginners. :)
Swedish Homestead thanks for explaining this. the only problem we have is a lack of common sense with the general public. chainsaws are deadly, that being said almost anyone with common sense can operate one safely. there is a reason people manage to kill themselves mowing their lawns every year. Darwin was onto something...
No mistakes there, just a competent understanding of what a chainsaw can do. To be fair, I personally wouldn't make a bore cut that way myself, but that's perfectly safe at the angle you entered the tree.
in July 2017 I had to cut down a tree that fell after a storm ... not knowing the kick back effect I wounded my chest quite badly 60 stitches on the right side and 20 on the biceps Pleural and lung perforation three sawn ribs I'm still here in this world out of pure luck and thanks to my girlfriend who helped me if I had seen your video before that day I would have saved myself a lot of problems ;)
I have heard people making huge mistake's while using chain saw. Some times I do get tree pruning done by professional's & I don't even stand close to it.. if professional's are not available I use the good old Machete, but chain saw never.
Anything can be done! But is it recommended? No. I have used a chainsaw for 45 years and I have never had a SERIOUS accident. Using the tip of the bar is always risky as the chance of bounce back is greatly increased. Be sure you have a darn good hold on the saw before you do it and expect kickback. When you don't expect it is when you may get hurt! Great videos!!
First time seeing rear handle chain break... being in deepest darkest Cornwall, England. Would also like to hear what you think to? Is it retro fitted or from new?
The concept is good regarding safety. It can get in the way when you sned (de-limb) a tree where it is possible to inadvertently engage the chain brake when cutting the limbs, especially when using the lever method of branch removal.
Plunge cuts are necessary, especially on some leaners. Just do what he says, cut in a little then 'plunge'. Chainsaw will smoothly and non-dangerously dig right in. The larger the chainsaw the bigger the initial cut.
When cutting a trunk thats on the ground, i make cuts all along the trunk 3/4 of the way through, after cutting those i roll the trunk over 180° the at each cut i nose the bar into the cut and pull the bar up through the last 1/3 thus severing the piece. Is this acceptable or should i be just cutting down mimicking the first cut style? To me it seems safe, im comfortable doing this and i dont have to worry about lining up the cuts. Just asking!
wow! I have felled a few trees with a chain saw & always was told never to use the tip. that was really informative as to how you can use the chainsaw. short bar, fat tree...no problem...wow! thank you.
Also you DID cut it properly. Just people cant see up close the bar and angle going into the tree . you are correct on how the saw will react on a kick back.
Here in commenting from the crazy USA 😜!! Kickback is very simple and can be explained and easily avoided, if properly Shown perhaps the physics Of the cutting mechanism itself, and the trajectory of what you’re cutting. For example when you were cutting down on an object that is larger than the bar, It’s begins to cut down in a normal fashion but when the wood is higher than the top of the bar the teeth will eat the wood upwards until it is free causing a kickback. My advice is not to bury your chainsaw into wood which is longer than what your bar is. Applying these concepts one will never have a kickback. Cheers!
Plunge cutting does take a lot of practice because it is dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. But it's an important skill to know if you need to drop large tall trees in tight spots like around houses. Using a plunge cut to leave a strap on the back side of the tree will keep it from leaning back and pinching the bar, it will also help to keep the tree stable until you're ready to drop it, and it will eliminate the possibility of having a widow split. One thing that this guy did that I don't recommend is cutting into a tree with the top of the bar because it will kick straight back at you almost every time and if you're not ready for it things will turn out bad.
If you start on the opposite side of the fell cut and saw inward there is a risk of the chain jamming? Is that the only reason why you use this "boring" cut and then move outward?
There are a lot of reasons for boring. When you bore, you almost completely remove the risk of barber chairing. When you simply do a back cut, you establish a hinge AS the tree is falling. When that happens, the pressure is on and you can easily accidentally blow a hinge. When you bore cut, you can establish the perfect hinge before the tree is ready to be felled. That means greater accuracy. On top of all of that, when you're back cutting, your saw is in line with the hinge when the tree starts falling and you may not notice its falling for a bit. That means you're deeper in the danger zone and for longer. When you establish a hinge and a backstrap by boring then your back strap is like a trigger. You can make sure that everyone is attentive, alert, and ready before you pull the trigger. As you cut the back strap, you're arent as deep in the danger zone. And as soon as its cut, you can instantly begin your "escape" without delay. That means you're out of the danger zone faster... in my opinion, the bore cut method is safer in 90% of situations and really doesnt take much longer
Your plunge cut was fine. You just have to go in at an angle whether you're using the top or the bottom of the bar. Cutting towards the back of the tree away from the notch will eliminate the need for wedges. The backstrap will keep the tree from closing on the bar. You leave about a 2 inch thick back strap ( not including the bark) and only leave it about 6 in wide. That's the trigger. When you cut that the tree will go over. This method works especially well with leaners. It keeps the tree from barber chairing. The plunge cut should also be slightly above the point of the notch. Maybe the wedges are necessary to make sure it goes the right direction.
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My husband, a certified climbing arborist of 30+ years, and I recently subscribed to your channel and enjoy your videos very much. We especially appreciate and applaud your efforts to share with others your knowledge and expertise in proper, safe tree care and felling techniques and practices. Also appreciated is your calm yet thorough and precise approach to the handling of misperceptions,, misunderstandings or questions among those who view your videos. A ready answer is a sign of true knowledge. From Colorado, USA.
How much climbers make out there?
"A ready answer is a sign of true knowledge" True
@@mudjackson1737 I see that your question is from 2 years ago, but I'll answer it anyway. My husband, working independently, charges $200.00 an hour on average. Sometimes more, depending on the complexity of the job.
@@mudjackson1737 Three hundred and ninety nine quatrillion dollars an hour
I was running this saw for about 2 hours at about a 30-50% duty cycle ruclips.net/user/postUgkxfQm1wmg0ItKDLavxj1nXtQY9HP7EF504 and it did a great job. I used the lever for the built in sharpener to clear chip buildup out more than to actually sharpen the chain. It managed to cut some hardwood stumps much larger than it's size without bothering the neighbors with hours of 2 stroke noise.
Guy cuts down trees for a living...youtube wants to tell him how to live.....always priceless.
cutting trees that cut technic gets used rarely, loghouse building with chainsaws you learn it right away, you go in with the pulling side of the chain on an angle then slowly work your way to having the saw on right angle with the log and you can saw without worring about the kickback.
@Mr. X wtf are you going on about?
@@kalev60
Is that how you lost your fingers?
coz people watch something and they assume they get it, but they dont..
@@TomAndersonDH 😂😂😂😂
'Never cut into a log or tree with the tip of your saw bar' is what people who have never cut down a dangerous tree, or possibly even a tree, say.
Yeah just randomly found a video from these guys the other day saying your back cut should always be level with your bottom cut... Sure if your felling for board feet and don't care about having a decent stump shot to stop the tree from jumping back on you...
A plunge cut may be tricky, but it's a good way to prevent the tree splitting vertically.
I support you on this one. Although I teach new sawyers to avoid using the tip of the bar, I encourage more experienced sawyers to do so the way you did, easing into it. Boring into the tree opens up a larger array of felling methods that provide greater control of the tree's fall, and more room to make adjustments. Best wishes and happy felling!
I bet half of the people that said it was wrong never use chainsaws on a regular basis, nice explanation on the proper use.
Ive handsawed hundreds of trees and used an electric saw maybe once to prune an areca palm. I agree with raymond on that. everybody loves raymond
I've got a small 16"/40cm bar saw, and the kick on it has never been more than 2 inches.
What do chainsaws and politicians have in common ?
They both kickback....badabum...tssshhh !
nic jones And you'd try a stihl over a husky because? Oh, yeah, less torque
Chainsaw brand matters yeah but the person using it is the real kicker. My mS170 has treated me so well. Doesn't take a lot of maintenance depending on what a lot is. But I'm guessing if that's too much for anybody then they have never taken down a tree big enough to know that honestly, tree removal is an art
I only put the tip in and have been paying for it the last 18 years.
fred flinstone 😂😂😂
that's premature ...
how many ya knocked up then fred
me six. took me 18 years as well. I gave the little six inch sod a hammering. he is still going.!!!!!!
fred flinstone ha
I really appreciate you taking the time to "explain" the procedure that you performed. Not having the tree in the way in this video makes for easy visual aide in observing exactly what it is that you did. IF anyone has a problem with this video, it is because their vision is beyond help, blinded by their own bias. Thank you for persevering past the negative comments and giving cheerful instruction. GOD BLESS you and your family in all that you are doing. Greetings from the high country in Arizona, USA
When I worked for the tree service, the general "policy" was to never cut with the top of the bar. That policy was there because a lot of our guys had never used a chainsaw before, so they wouldn't know how to prevent kickback. Those of us who had years of experience knew - as you do - that there are always exceptions to the rules, and sometimes using the top of the bar is exactly what you need.
I have wondered how you all start those cuts. Thanks for the clarification!
I work for Husqvarna Australia and experienced kick back. It happens in a blink of an eye and the chain brake saved my life.
its not that dramatic
@@drewa3597 😂
@@drewa3597 it is though
A proper plunge cut and debunking the “fake news” all in the same video. Thank you guys. Keep on, keeping on.
Thanks for explanation. I've cut a bit over the years clearing dead wood for trail and fire wood. My sawing has advanced greatly over the past few years and I'm learning as much as possible of how to be more efficient and safer. I just recently purchased new protective equipment and mill.
It's called a "plunge cut". It's very safe. Good video.
I love your channel, and think that experience is always the best teacher. If you were taught that way, then it is correct for you. Do not even have a seconds hezitation about what negative comments are said. You keep on going Simeon. Kudos to you and your wife. Keep it up.
Thank you for your excellent content. Some folks want attention, especially armchair loggers. Since they don’t have any actual practical advice to share, they bark about safety; playing “gotcha” validates them. You responded like a pro, keep up the good work.
I don't even have a chainsaw, a tree, or a Sweden to have this video help me. But thanks for it anyways.
well after wood-stoves video streak it seems logical to me..
Very interesting video .Very educational and the guy speaks word perfect English Thanks again.
My wife and I had almost this exact same conversation on our wedding night.
Checks out
Lmao!
Lol almost
@@daviddou1408 some things are worth the wait 😉
It's called a bore cut and you did it exactly how you're supposed to do it. It's actually a really useful way of setting up your hinge perfectly BEFORE cutting from the back. Some people just cut straight from the back. Well done on educating everyone on what you actually did.
ع ع غاغا ييبليثثثصثقققققفخ88ع
It is amazing how many "experts" that comes out in the comment sections
on RUclips :-)
I don't know why it was recommended to me. But now i know how to enter a chainsaw into a tree properly. Thanks RUclips.
Insidious589 same....
I just want to say Thanks guy's, you have helped me a lot!
Simeon, you're an OK guy in my book. Love your channel.
Makes sense...
Thanks for tips. I just started learning how to do properly.
I came to comments after hearing him say "the tip" so many times and I gotta say, the comment section always left me satisfied and smiling ◉‿◉
That's what she said
I have to dive cut all the time with a large tree that is leaning real bad. If the back cut can not be done fast enough to keep the tree from barber chairing then I dive cut the tip of the saw strait in parallel to the hinge and then cut backwards. I leave a couple inches on the outside until I am ready to fell the tree. I also often have to d a similar thing when bucking a large log. A logger/ feller cuts into the tree using the tip in a variety of ways and yes it will kick back if not done right. I have seen you and your brother work in the woods and it is evident that you know what you are doing and are quite professional. Nice explanation. When I was a firemen years ago they would not let you climb a ladder by yourself. Someone had to hold the ladder lol. They would have freaked out if they saw what we did in construction and mill writing standing on nothing or tree climbing and felling. I love your homestead brother. Have a blessed day!
Literally learnt how to enter a cut by the top of the bar by the age of 21 due to the fact my father had been a logger and taught me at a professional level. I've been lucky in that sense
"I didn't put the tip in it..." Man, if I had a nickel.....
And not even for a minute, mind...
Tyvole Bob's your auntie
flY_Sw4tteR_
my uncle used to love me but she died
i will only put the tip in ,, man , if i had a nickel ....
what the hell is wrong with people that shit was funny, it's a joke on liberals people loosen up for fk's sake!
I'm glad this matters enough to make another video let alone a channel about very intriguing
Thanks for clarifying your technique. I invested in a decent pair of chaps, as well...as I think my legs are worth more than the $100 I paid for them. Stay safe.
Dude... It be honest it looked to me like you started the back cut with the top side of the chain then brought the back of the saw down and drove the tip into the tree. The only time I've ever done anything like that was while logging a 4-6 ft diameter trees that were being felled with the stump attached by a big cat loader. So your saw wont get pinched due to odd pressure because of the stump still being attached you would leave a section still connected inside the cut. That being said I still never did anything like what I just watch in that video... Good Luck Man.
I very much appreciate your desire to keep safe practices in front of our minds!
You do this for a living bud. Nice job and good vids.
your advice is credible, it's the "pro preferred" and safest way to fell most trees from the ground.
I like your explanations of dangerous issues. Keep up the great work.
It’s fine and dandy for fear know what to expect and you have small chainsaws but for general guidelines that is riskier than entering it on the bottom of the tip of the blade first and then inserting it
This explanation/demo' you give is quite correct, as you say, you must have correct tuition / experience . tuition / knowledge is so important even for the most basic of chainsaw use.......you only have to watch "chainsaw fails" on RUclips to see what happens with lack of knowledge ..
My dream to come to Sweden one day just to watch you and your brother work one day in the Forrest. That would be the ultimate trip/ learning experience.
Thank you for the tip. Very useful. I was planning to buy one in a a couple weeks.
I always knew it would teach me something. I did go back and watch the other video, the original, and my family are generations of loggers in the US. I did notice you gave way for the bar in the first video. And then did the back cuts. Although, I don't agree it's the best method or technique but it is effective, obviously. I'll try it the next time. One can't truly make an honest comment without trying right?
Great videos. I look forward to your RUclips uploads.
I went and looked at the other video and he is 100% correct. He entered the bar from the pushing side of the tip and the stuck it in, just like he said in his explaination here. Well ✔ done.
Keyboard experts will always exist. Best to not take comments too deeply to heart.
The only thing wrong with that vide was the conventional facecut. The open face offers the most control because the tree is almost in contact with the ground before the hinge breaks. The people complaining about your bore have never been trained properly, it is hands down the safest way to fell a tree.
+Luke Murchie
both the A + B Chainsaw Modules taught in Germany ...
[ acknowledged + certified by the SVLFG ]
...use, teach and train their participants to, utilizing the bore cut.
- as you stated,
" it is hands down the safest way to fell a tree. "
Luke Murchie there is nothing wrong with conventional facecuts. open face notches waste wood.
While I agree that an open faced notch or a humbolt notch a preferable most of the time, a conventional notch has its uses. Especially if you want the tree to pop off the hinge away from the stump. Plunge cuts are also useful but only for experienced operators. I only use when felling trees with a severe lean. Helps prevent barber chairing.
I like open faced sandwiches, less bread, less calories!
I like to plunge and set the tree on a trigger when I have bad footing or feel the tree is too compromised to safely fell
Hey, haters gonna hate from the professional side in the woods, bore cutting is part of normal life, if u got one that leans hard and u can't face it normal and back cut, u face it and bore cut to leave a trigger on the stump till she's ready to go and then she will pop, without u barber chairing the tree
u did fine my friend, don't worry about there comments
Great explanation. I almost always use a boring technique for felling. I have never started with the top of the bar but when bucking I often do and entering the tree like you describe doesn’t cause kickback. I still think starting with the bottom is safer because if it does kick back it will be away from you. If a mistake is made when starting on top it’s coming toward you. Cutting with top just behind the nose takes significant “feel” to do safely not for first timers!
Well explained, am glad to have found your channel. Thanks
The way you bored into that tree was perfectly safe there wasn't a possibility of kickback and it was evident you moved around to line the saw up. If you had just pushed it into the tree you wouldnt have needed to reposition yourself. BEAUTIFULLY CUT
mastering a plunge or bore cut is one of the most useful and skills to know when "safely" felling and bucking trees
Plunge cuts while bucking can save a lot of bars from getting pinched.
very good explanation, very important and absolutely correct, you are an expert
Game of Logging teaches this "boring" cut technique, Scandinavian techniques. One uses the bottom, or top, of the chain to make a slicing cut. Then, when it is safe - the tip is "anchored" in place, one rotates the saw to bore through the tree with the tip.
Well ummm I guess I watch chainsaw videos now, anyone else?
Just re-watched the video. You did a simple plunge cut, and did is well. Some people just like to find fault with others. Usually the ones complaining don't know how to do the work themselves.
Dont worry about what people say buddy
I'm a great fan of plunge/bore cuts, both for leaners (to avoid a barber chair) and for non-leaners so that I have plenty of time to set everything up nicely (maybe wedges, maybe tapered hinge, general safety). But I've only ever started with the bottom of the tip and never with the top. Here's a question: if you get it a bit wrong on a horizontal bore cut starting with the bottom of the tip, the saw will kick to the right. Does that mean that if you get it a bit wrong using the top of the tip then the saw will kick to the left instead?
I watched the other video you may have not used the complete tip but really close, I would not use that method. I would use a lot less of the tip for safety speed I could care less. But you are correct you did not just use tip and drive it in thankfully. Also turn the idle down on that saw. It should not require the brake to keep chain from rotating. I am not a pro but like you have fell many trees do to burning wood for heat. And Sweden USA Country does not matter if you know how to do it then you do :)
Your talking about a plunge cut. Sometimes it is necessary especially if the tree is much thicker than the length of the bar on your saw. The trick to safe plunge cuts is don't hold the throttle wide open when starting. Also angle the saw so that when the tip of the chain begins to "crawl" it has to force the saw back against its length. With low RPMs and holding the saw securely, instead of the crawling action pushing your saw away at an angle it instead forces the tip into the tree. I have cut back the drags on my chain so that it can take bigger bites. The trade-off of course is that "kicking and binding can be a problem if you initially start your cuts too aggressively. The plus side is that just the weight of the saw is sufficient enough down force to cut rapidly and all I do is basically hold saw firmly and let it do "all" the work. With cut down chain drags, I have to be especially gentle when beginning a plunge cut. If not the tip of the saw will keep hopping off the tree. I do not advocate shimming down the drags on a chain unless the operator is very experienced. There is a balance that has to be achieved between the bite depth of the chain and the power of the saw engine. Too much bite and you get constant bogging issues. Too little bite and your chainsaw screams all day but you get little wood cut for the day. The best saw I own, and my favorite, is a little 16" Echo EVL-??? that my parents bought about 45 years ago. I changed it over to an 20 inch because it was a waste to have a 16 inch on it. It has more than enough engine for the 20 inch and it runs circles around any other saw I've seen or owned. Did I tell you that it's like 45 years old? I've never had to do any repairs other than replacing the bar and chain every ten years or so and of course routine maintenance like chain sharpening and cleaning. It has never failed me in all those years. I did once, had to wind on another pull rope but that was like a ten minute job. Conservatively I estimate that I've cut down three hundred maybe three hundred fifty trees with it "mostly huge trees", not to mention countless hours of brush cutting. For the last 17 years I have heated my home with wood. Every year I use my Echo EVL and it always does a fantastic job. I think the key to its longevity, is not running it wide open all the time, like I have seen too many others do. If it's cutting just as well at 3/4 or 1/2 throttle than at full throttle, why run it at full throttle? Have fun an be safe.
I was wondering after that video if a backcut plunge was safe... I am not a expert, thanks for the clarification. I'm still not going to plunge that way...
What is the direction of movement of the chain? Is it away from the motor and goes back in on the downside of the blade?
One should never bypass the safety feature: instead to make the side/plunge cut switch hands so your right hand is behind the safety brake and left is on the throttle. Make your felling cut high enough to be able to do this.
Its called boring or plunge cut what you just did, i use it all the time at work (Tree surgeon)
I watched your other video and yes you did enter the tree with the top and not the tip of the chain. Good explanation
You never question a Swede on chainsaws
You should question the swedes on everything. - Good advice from a Norwegian ;)
Stubborn bastards we are
You weren't wrong. I will point out that kickback occurs because as the chain passes the tip the rakers (which determine the size of the wood chips) essentially do nothing. Therefore the saw will not have enough power to cut a bigger wood chip, causing kickback. Good videos
Just looked at your old video - got to say I'm not convinced, @10:12 it's the top half of the tip you are using to start the cut, or at least that's what it looks like from the camera angle.
i like these short tips and explanition videos. as well as the longer form ones
Ready for the long tip now..........
Why? Are you not intelligent enough to understand how to cut wood? It's pretty easy dude.
Very clear and helpful!!
U did a good job. U made a plunge cut to set up ur hinge.. that's the most important part of a felling mechanism.
just learned something today thank you.
Thanks for showing me that BIG thing, I like it.
Yep, nothing wrong with a plunge cut. Thanks for posting!
I was trained to turn it before entering. This means when your chain is in the tree you are safe. Although if last resort a plunge cut can be safe if done properly
In my state in order to cut timber commercially you need to take a chain saw safety class in order to be licensed and insured. They teach the bore or plunge cut in this class. I'm not a big fan of it but occasionally use it.
The problem with chainsaw kickback is users have not experienced it ... I learned to chainsaw at 9 years old with an old blue Homelight and a long 36" bar and it had no kickback arrester and no auto oil feed you had to keep your right hand thumb free, to oil the chain manually
.. it was HEAVY and I weighed maybe 70 pounds ... I kept the chain VERY sharp and the rakers (or depth gauges) a bit shorter then usual (I learned to sharpen the chain at 6 years old, my dad taught me all this.)
I often cut from underneath the logs, using the chains inherent kickback to LIFT the bar into the wood by plunging the tip in under the log, this negated the saws weight and gave me a few minutes rest while cutting the families fire wood.
Hence the bar kicked back occasionally and I learned to control it .. the heavy saw reduced the kickback and made it slower, ironical small light chainsaw can be more dangerous to use ... I still use my chains saws in this manner and can under cut wood with one hand hanging from a tree branch :)
I never heard about the danger of saw kick back until I bought a new saw with a tip guard on it ... which I threw away at first use :)
Always going to have haters bud ! You're doing it right and sharing knowledge so stay real and ignore these lifeless people.
Doing it with a pulling chain (the "bottom" of the chain) is very safe, and is one of the first things you learn in chainsaw classes in Sweden. I learned it in school. The pushing (top) half of the tip is the dangerous part that will make your saw kick.
Yes, that is how it's taught in the UK too.
TheodorEriksson here in the states it is taught with the bottom as well
Yes, I learned this here in Sweden as well when I got my certification and my mistake was not using that in the first video where I wanted to give a basic and safe instruction for a safe felling. The technique I demonstrate in this video is something that later on experienced loggers and my brother have taught me. You see when a saw is inside a tree the tip of the bar also is in contact with the tree but there is no kick back because the saw can't go anywhere. The same principle is what applies here. If held in the right angle the bar can't go anywhere (no kick back) because the tree is in the way.
But again, I should not have used this in the instructional video.
Yeah, I think I may have been one of the people who pointed this out in the video. I'm sure it's a safe and useful technique when done right, but as you say it may not be recommended for beginners. :)
Swedish Homestead thanks for explaining this. the only problem we have is a lack of common sense with the general public. chainsaws are deadly, that being said almost anyone with common sense can operate one safely. there is a reason people manage to kill themselves mowing their lawns every year. Darwin was onto something...
Excellent, clear tutorial. Well done!
No mistakes there, just a competent understanding of what a chainsaw can do. To be fair, I personally wouldn't make a bore cut that way myself, but that's perfectly safe at the angle you entered the tree.
in July 2017 I had to cut down a tree that fell after a storm ... not knowing the kick back effect I wounded my chest quite badly
60 stitches on the right side and 20 on the biceps
Pleural and lung perforation
three sawn ribs
I'm still here in this world out of pure luck and thanks to my girlfriend who helped me
if I had seen your video before that day I would have saved myself a lot of problems ;)
I have heard people making huge mistake's while using chain saw. Some times I do get tree pruning done by professional's & I don't even stand close to it.. if professional's are not available I use the good old Machete, but chain saw never.
Anything can be done! But is it recommended? No. I have used a chainsaw for 45 years and I have never had a SERIOUS accident. Using the tip of the bar is always risky as the chance of bounce back is greatly increased. Be sure you have a darn good hold on the saw before you do it and expect kickback. When you don't expect it is when you may get hurt! Great videos!!
hello I enjoy your videos what is the black handle that is over your wrist ??
That's part of the chain brake.
Look up Husqvarna's "Trio-Brake"- 3 means of engaging chain brake.
Great Video,..Thank You, I learned a valuable lesson today.
Personally, I have seen most of your videos and you handle tools properly all the time.
this is how i was taught to do the back cut. the open face plunge cut, from the pulling side
What do you think of the trilobreak? I think saws with trilobrake is required in school/teaching use cases.
First time seeing rear handle chain break... being in deepest darkest Cornwall, England. Would also like to hear what you think to? Is it retro fitted or from new?
Martin Spiers it is a feature that Husqvarna chainsaws, I think you can fit then on all of their new saws. Dont think anyone else has it.
The concept is good regarding safety. It can get in the way when you sned (de-limb) a tree where it is possible to inadvertently engage the chain brake when cutting the limbs, especially when using the lever method of branch removal.
Plunge cuts are necessary, especially on some leaners. Just do what he says, cut in a little then 'plunge'. Chainsaw will smoothly and non-dangerously dig right in. The larger the chainsaw the bigger the initial cut.
Whatever way uses commonsense and without rushing to complete seems to work for us. PPG always and quality tools!!
When cutting a trunk thats on the ground, i make cuts all along the trunk 3/4 of the way through, after cutting those i roll the trunk over 180° the at each cut i nose the bar into the cut and pull the bar up through the last 1/3 thus severing the piece. Is this acceptable or should i be just cutting down mimicking the first cut style? To me it seems safe, im comfortable doing this and i dont have to worry about lining up the cuts. Just asking!
Thanks for the tip! Very helpful!
wow! I have felled a few trees with a chain saw & always was told never to use the tip. that was really informative as to how you can use the chainsaw. short bar, fat tree...no problem...wow! thank you.
The safest way is still to use the bottom of the bar.
you are the best...keep up the good work
Also you DID cut it properly. Just people cant see up close the bar and angle going into the tree . you are correct on how the saw will react on a kick back.
Husqvarna training videos show toe entry techniques. I've seen numerous saw operators safely use a direct toe entry.
Watching & doing are very different pal!
Great video, thank you so much...from California.....
what is that model of husqvarna, I see it has metal side cover. What Husqvarnas has metal side cover (except the biggest ones)
Here in commenting from the crazy USA 😜!!
Kickback is very simple and can be explained and easily avoided, if properly Shown perhaps the physics Of the cutting mechanism itself, and the trajectory of what you’re cutting. For example when you were cutting down on an object that is larger than the bar, It’s begins to cut down in a normal fashion but when the wood is higher than the top of the bar the teeth will eat the wood upwards until it is free causing a kickback. My advice is not to bury your chainsaw into wood which is longer than what your bar is. Applying these concepts one will never have a kickback. Cheers!
I don't even own a chainsaw. Why did I watch this?
Trevor Kroon same..
Because you want one.
Marshy tbh it kinda makes me want to buy one but i don't have any trees to cut down?
Tylerp, surely your neighbor has some lol!
Or just use it ON the neighbors!!!
Plunge cutting does take a lot of practice because it is dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. But it's an important skill to know if you need to drop large tall trees in tight spots like around houses. Using a plunge cut to leave a strap on the back side of the tree will keep it from leaning back and pinching the bar, it will also help to keep the tree stable until you're ready to drop it, and it will eliminate the possibility of having a widow split. One thing that this guy did that I don't recommend is cutting into a tree with the top of the bar because it will kick straight back at you almost every time and if you're not ready for it things will turn out bad.
If you start on the opposite side of the fell cut and saw inward there is a risk of the chain jamming? Is that the only reason why you use this "boring" cut and then move outward?
There are a lot of reasons for boring. When you bore, you almost completely remove the risk of barber chairing. When you simply do a back cut, you establish a hinge AS the tree is falling. When that happens, the pressure is on and you can easily accidentally blow a hinge. When you bore cut, you can establish the perfect hinge before the tree is ready to be felled. That means greater accuracy. On top of all of that, when you're back cutting, your saw is in line with the hinge when the tree starts falling and you may not notice its falling for a bit. That means you're deeper in the danger zone and for longer. When you establish a hinge and a backstrap by boring then your back strap is like a trigger. You can make sure that everyone is attentive, alert, and ready before you pull the trigger. As you cut the back strap, you're arent as deep in the danger zone. And as soon as its cut, you can instantly begin your "escape" without delay. That means you're out of the danger zone faster... in my opinion, the bore cut method is safer in 90% of situations and really doesnt take much longer
Your plunge cut was fine. You just have to go in at an angle whether you're using the top or the bottom of the bar. Cutting towards the back of the tree away from the notch will eliminate the need for wedges. The backstrap will keep the tree from closing on the bar. You leave about a 2 inch thick back strap ( not including the bark) and only leave it about 6 in wide. That's the trigger. When you cut that the tree will go over. This method works especially well with leaners. It keeps the tree from barber chairing. The plunge cut should also be slightly above the point of the notch. Maybe the wedges are necessary to make sure it goes the right direction.