The Problem with Throws in TMNT Shredder's Revenge
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- Опубликовано: 11 окт 2024
- Let's look at some solutions for the throw problem, and see why exactly it's an issue.
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Mayo did you complete arcade mode?
Will you take a look at the Turtles classics with the release of the Cowabunga-Edition?
@@lyvekis8824 Not likely. I'm pretty swamped at the moment.
Just to point out, the only foot with more than 4 health are the ax foot with 8 health. the rest have 2-4 health. Even with the weapon foot that you cannot throw at full health have the same health as the purple foot.
Worst still, splinter's standard combo does 8 damage.
Throws do 1-3 damage. The slam toss, despite clearly being 3 hits, only does 2 damage, and thrown enemies do 1 damage on collision.
Throws are overall, really bad. Low damage, high risk, no super guage build up.
@@khaosklub I agree. And compared: "Turtles in Time"'s throws were badass and felt perfectly fine (Only a double tap for running would have been nice back then). Don't know why they changed that in Shredder's Revenge.
I love Shredder's Revenge probably more than it deserves but I agree with you on the throws.
I like it a lot too, or I wouldn't be advocating for it so much.
Bigger problem with this game balance is taunt button restoring special meter. Basically all 4-6 players games degrade into constant supers with rotation , you can't see shit on the screen , but it works
With one hit from enemy cleared your half charged super bar. I can see why they went with taunt charging the super.
This is my biggest gripe with the game. If taunt were just taunts in arcade mode, it would really reward players who use the mechanics and play around the enemies to rack up hits and avoid damage. This would make learning how to fight the enemies beneficial outside of single player.
In multiplayer sessions, the game becomes easier even in gnarly mode so my only goal is to defeat the most enemies without ever using the taunt button. Usually I can do it, but some players know when to use special and take out the most enemies, and since they're multiple players, they can usually get off two or three supers in succession because their taunting doesn't get interrupted. This makes Casey, Donnie, and Raph the worse offenders to play with if all they do is taunt and neutral special.
@@max-d8105 I've started booting cats that taunt/special spam. (Can't STAND that shit smh)
@@ghostdog3566 lawl
@@ghostdog3566 This is why i didn't watch max's yo videogames playthrough, kenny and steeb (mostly kenny though) were just spamming taunt and supers. I love those guys, but that just degraded the game and i just felt didn't it make for fun watching that time around.
It's not a difficult issue to understand. In every beat-em up, going as far back as Double Dragon, throws were invincible and treated as the default defensive option.
When Final Fight included the Super attack, throws were still the go-to option because they didn't drain your HP. When Streets of Rage 3 included an ability to Super attack at no HP cost (the meter), throws were still the go-to option because they were consistently available. Every game since then has respected that rule because in a genre where you're constantly outnumbered, having a means of "safely" moving enemies around without the risk of immediate damage is important.
Yet Tribute decided to ignore all of that in favor of a tool that effectively ruins the original purpose. Throwing will make you take damage anyway, sometimes even more than just getting hit outright because you lose access to rolling away. No matter what reason the devs give, it is obvious they purposely neutered throws in order to give their Dodge Roll mechanic all the spotlight. But it's also clear that they didn't properly test or consider how both options could interact; they just killed one off in favor of the other.
And it's not just throw invincibility, you can tell the devs actively killed the option because throws also deal very little damage. Even the iconic triple slam from Turtles in Time cannot kill basic 4 HP mooks (because it does literally 3 HP of damage), and the crowd control throw is a joke. Not to mention that you can't even grab enemies with more than 4 HP, so the risk of throwing armored enemies instead of dealing with their gimmick isn't even an issue.
They need to change this immediately, it actively harms their own game play balance. Especially when you consider fights like Chrome Dome, where Fling Toss is the worst possible option given all the damage flying around.
You're really tumbling town this Shredder's Revenge rabbit hole, and it's great to see.
yeah its great to see mayo do content on things he is passionate about
Yeah I'll talk about whatever interests me. Views be damned. I think I'm done with this topic though.
@@underthemayo hell yeah dude!
Idk if it's a good solution or not but i think you should be able to throw any enemies and throws should have s but the fling toss should cost the super bar to use, like half of a bar or something so you can't just spam it
Another solution could be that trying to use the fling toss when the enemy's health is too high just does a throw similar to side throws except downwards.
What if an enemy with high enough health bounced off the screen instead?
I think it should require a super bar or something like that but deal fixed damage so if the enemy has a high enough health they will be able to get back in the fight (something like hitting a wall and sliding down and back into the game) otherwise just get thrown out
I played a lot of TMNT - Turtles in Time and Hyperstone Heist and i can say the throws were indeed overpowerd. Fling toss to insta-kill and get 3 points and fling slam to do crowd control, insta-kill and get 2 points. I can understand why they nerfed them, but was shocked to see how bad they had become.
The slide in those games was also overpowerd but a lot harder to pull off.
I can understand wanting to prevent them from being as overpowered as the Fling Slam in TiT, but I think taking away damage OR invincibility would have been the better solution there. Either greater risk for potentially huge reward (damage) or less risk for a significantly smaller reward (invincibility).
As opposed to taking away both and leaving them fairly useless. It's very disappointing to Fling Slam a starter enemy and not even kill it.
Fling toss can be solved with some rng - letting high tier enemies jump out of it safely sometimes. Capcom's arcade Punisher has enemies that soft land when thrown sometimes and it works fairly well.
Between Streets of Rage 4, Sifu and this, I’m just happy we get a little Beat ‘em Up reinassance. Love all three of them.
You are completely right. The very first time I noticed foot soldiers were hitting me WHILE I did my good ol' slam throw when surrounded, my heart broke a little bit. The game is still very cool and lots of fun! But indeed it doesn't feel as nuanced as SNES tmnt4, Final Fight or Steets of Rage.
Oh and your voice sounds like a radio voice, that's pretty awesome lol.
It’s annoying when it grabs and I don’t want it to grab, or when it grabs and I just fkn stand there and the buttons seem to not work. There should’ve been a dedicated grab button man.
So you want grabs to actually work and not fail randomly? Stop comparing this to Streets Of Rage 4!
No i-frames on throws feels jank. I can't name a single beat em up where it doesn't have i-frames.
It's an obvious problem the moment you get to Chromdome or playing on Hard.
And the crazy thing is that you would have to struggle to find a beat em up that doesn't have either i-frames or full invincibility for these moments like grabs.
I swear these guys cannot be the exact same developers who made SOR4.
@@franciscor390 You are right, these are different devs from SOR4 as the devs who made this TMNT game also made Scott Pilgrim and TMNT 2007 GBA.
@@franciscor390 I'm glad you can see that I really appreciate what they made but certain aspects as a fan of beat em ups just come off baffling.
I had really high expectations since SoR 4 is so good. I think that not having the depth was a let down. I enjoyed the nostalgia and appreciate the effort put into taking me there. I did 2 playthroughs and liked my time with it. The nostalgia glasses are off and unless some more depth gets added I will unlikely play it anytime soon.
I'm glad people are enjoying it multiple hours in. My biggest problem is having a pointless combo counter (outside of finishing a co-op missions as the player with the highest combo getting a mention)when points are just kills. If it charges your super faster then taunts wouldn't give you an immediate bar. Throws not having I frames sucks, especially when grabs happen unintentionally more than anything. I didn't try higher difficulties just cause there wasn't an objective. Score feels irrelevant so arcade mode seems empty. I hope the devs do change things or add stuff. Either way I don't regret my purchase, I got my money's worth. Getting hyped and thinking it could be like sor4 was something I shouldn't have done.
The fact that raphael hands out German Suplexs is a win in my book.
For me the easiest fix would be having i-frames throughout the entire animation, and if you wanna insta-kill throw, I'd have a window of the animation with a button mashing quick-time event where no i-frames exist, the higher-tier the enemy is the bigger the mashing.
Interesting topic. The karate guys in the white suits can break your grabs in SOR4 also(at least for Cherry). All these ideas are great but, it might be something so core to their design choice the devs might not budge on this. Fingers crossed tho, great video.
Yeah the throws don’t feel as natural as it could be, but I remember it from Turtles in Time so it’s not that bad. You’ll feel it on the throw boss.
I mean, it's literally how grabs worked in the other TMNT beat em ups
No it doesn’t. They have I frames
To be fair to the current state of throws, they can help in getting crowds off you because in some cases, a forward throw is faster than a jab when you're about to get attacked. Throwing the enemy into hazards and barrels will trigger them, and you can grab foot soldiers during their wakeup frames so you don't have to wait for them to stand.
Quite miniscule and in the big picture especially in multiplayer given how powerful everything else is.
The dodge glitch on stage 3 exists on Xbox too. I almost always lose a life against the car because of it
Very well done and said. The back-and-forth throw (not sure of its official name) should be the ultimate defence tool and do high damage (say, 1 per slam), but it's really not worth it.
Found this out awhile ago, but to do to throws ya gotta press the attack button + the direction you want to actually do it
Sharing this with Dotemu and Tribute Games on Twitter ASAP! Great video I don't own TMNT'S SHREDDERS REVENGE Yet but own Belt Action collection and Fighting Collection! Getting TMNT'S Cowabunga Collection and then Shredder's Revenge.
"X is fine and you just don't understand the game" describes way too much of the discourse I see with TMNT:SR mechanics discussions. Thanks for continuing to promote the technical side of the discussion. This is a pretty good game, but we know it could be a better game with a bit of balancing and polish on the core fundamentals. Hopefully those points don't get drowned out by the mountains of unconditional praise.
I was just gonna tell him the same thing that it's just him. I don't have any problems throwing
@@tonypratt1023 Aside from your confusing comment, If a mediocre option is overshadowed by greater and outright *normal options.*
I'm fairly certain they shouldn't be kept anymore. If there not useful, why keep em.
Of course, I'm not a game balancer.
fling toss could've been a random 25% chance on a down throw, but have a unique weak down grab with setup so team can help combo after..
I'd just have the fling toss when done on an elite enemy or high health enemy just make them fly into the screen it'll leave a tiny crack animation and they bounce off and back into the fight close to where they were having taken significant damage
Exactly. I try to avoid throwing most of the time due to all of the reasons presented in this video. Would like to see some of these suggestions genuinely implemented.
As much as I love this game, you make a very great point. Honestly, I think a lot of the enemies are too easy to kill. I say make some enemies stronger as far as HP, and give the throws I-frames like you said. Give us a reason to use them. And maybe special meters can control the type and severity of the throws. Or even have certain characters do certain throws. There's many ways to play with this.
The best solution to this would be a block button that can be a parry system....
Blocking attacks takes reduced damage but does not kill your combo. Timing that block with an enemy attack creates a parry animation that allows counterattacks, give every character their own unique counterattack with different properties...
Leo - dash slash that stuns and creates cross up
Raph - 1inch punch that knocks back for wall bounce
Don - Bow staff launch throw for juggle startup
Mikey - Nunchuck combo starter with hit stun to open combo start
All parry attacks have different range and properties....etc.
Just baffled throws have this lack of use but I think a parry system would open up the combat even more...without the throw problem...this could also allow for more aggressive enemy AI... and a better game. Just my opinion.
mayo fuckin hates parrying , he would never want that. would be cool though
The stage 3/8 dodge-glitch is 100% present in the Switch version, too. I've tested it... and always have to remember to do neutral dodges on those stages, which is annoying. I hope the developers know about it and patch it out.
it could use the position change SoR to add 3 more grab options and a way to double team enemies. maybe make double team the only way to do a grab on a regular heavy extra heavyweight enemies.
Wow you made a 12 minute video about throws. Amazing.
It's what I do.
Invincibility frames should be back for all throws. Fling Toss should be the only one restricted by the tougher Foot Ninjas, the other throws shouldn’t be.
take a shot whenever Mayo says "Throw"
Damn! I thought it was just me who has issues with grab/throws in Shredder's Revenge. Whenever I accidentally grab someone (you can easily grab someone by getting close to them and tab a d-pad bottom I think) it will just mess up you flow of combos and drain your health especially on Gnarly difficulty.
ill be honest.. if it wasn't for the kickass music and nostalgia, id have a WAY lesser experience..
As for crowd control, I always jab them and follow it up with a charge attack.. doesn't need to to be fully charged, but this way you can slam them into a group of enemies, dive kick into them during wakeup, or do another charge attack. bigger enemies can be dealt with in a similar way, but instead of a follow up, you can just backdash and fill your super meter, easy peasy ;)
The developers updated grabs and gave them Invincibility frames so now they are a more viable option in combat 👍. I think Raphael's suplex is the best.
I love this game hope they keep updating it
Yep, they definitely need to and I'll be for it.
I love shredders revenge, I haven’t been into side scrolling beat ‘em ups in a good minute makes me realize how great streets of rage 2 is with its mechanics…especially for the time. I did beat Bare knuckle 3, I have yet to beat part 4 even though I bought the physical on switch close to 2 years ago.
4 is way better than 3 , you're in for a treat
@@DusBeforeDawn2008 Oh I’m sure…even as a kid renting part 3 was a dramatic shift in tone, but I grew to appreciate the faster movement, running dodging up and down…being able to use a super without losing Health with a full meter of OK. And the soundtrack is actually pretty decent “goes with the whole new machines and the mid 90’s culture
I'm a big fan of SOR3 actually, I played it a lot more than 2.
I am at my wits end trying to get through Technodrome redux on gnarly without using supers. Not only does that level put you into restricted spaces with some of the spammiest enemies in the game, the boss forces you to do fling toss with large groups of enemies surrounding you, the boss attacking you AND missiles to be avoided at the beginning. Waiting for the barrel can be a proper pain. This video completely embodies the one problem I have with this game
I literally stopped playing because of this throwing issue, hope it gets fixed soon.
Picked Rafael day 1 just for his german suplex throw, dropped him same day, I'm sure I woke up my neighbors as i collapsed into systematic shock and sperged throughout my apartment at 2am
NO I frames coming out of throws none whatsoever you are sick devs sick in the head!
Love the German suplex but yea same thing. Dropped him in favor of better balanced characters
*shell shock
I could see these changes in maybe a special mode of the game but it feels like the developers wanted it to keep the old school feel.
Not sure but I think you could take damage in Turtles in Time the same way.
But I agree on how Shredder's Revenge feels now after I started playing Final Vendetta.
The old school feel would be keeping i-frames during throws like in Turtles In Time or any other beatem up.
Throws were invincible in Turtles in Time, similar to all the other beat-em ups of the era. They all copied basic design concepts from Final Fight; invincible throws and super attacks being the main ones.
Perfect reasons why I don't use throws in this game. And great solutions for using throws if implemented in the future. Good job.
Same! I only use the throw for example when the purple ninjas just standing there eating ice cream. I hate the automatic grabs, it puts you in a vulnerable spot to get gang beaten up by enemies.
Don't worry about complicating casual play. Throws suck there too!
Yeah, I agree with all of this. Went through gnarly solo today and pretty much every Turtles in Time move is useless and leaves you open for major damage more than anything and your better off spamming your 4 hit standard combo and then roll back to avoid damage to kill enemies. If you’re going to feature all these new abilities that the old games didn’t have then it makes no sense to make only standard jab and roll and supers the only thing worth doing.
oh my goodness.shocker....viable realistic strategies are key to winning not relying on invisiblityly moments
They should have high hp enemies bounce off the screen and land in the middle of the map instead of just not being aloud to. Also add I-frames
I think you should get invincibility only after you start the throw, rather than when you've grabbed the enemy. I think that would balance the risk-reward feeling that the devs were going for with them.
Absolutely. Then there would be timing involved.
The only time I purposely used throws was to unlock the achievement, that and I love Raphaels suplex.🤙
I don’t agree about the I-frames, I like the challenge of executing the throw without getting hit and the benefit is you knockdown multiple enemies at a time. I don’t like the automatic grab and would prefer a button dedicated to grappling, it give you more control over it and I could see myself trying to beat a whole level by just tossing people. I also hate the screen toss, I prefer Judo and wrestling throws and hate when I accidentally do the screen toss.
maybe they did this to balance out the fact that you can recharge your super bar easily with a taunt?
Throws in TMNT: Shredder's Revenge is like Full Auto in DOOM Eternal. THEY ARE BAD.
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JKJK
While writing this video I knew someone would bring up full auto.
even river city ransom for the NES had throws too. 😁
I think the Fling toss should just do a lot of damage instead of instakill and if the enemy has enough health to survive the toss they just "splat" on the screen and return to trying to fight you.
Having enemies just break your throw attempts while other ones are immune to throws, utterly kills that mechanic on higher levels of play, and it feels bizarre that they would do this *AFTER* making Streets of Rage 4. Like they had different people design the combat system in each or something.
They were made by different developers.
@@underthemayo Oh wow, I got the developer and publisher confused! My bad.
Any opinions on God Hand? If you like highly-technical combat with a high skill ceiling, you're missing out if you haven't tried it.
God Hand is great
I tried it and while I don't like it I can see why people still talk about it. It's really cool
God Hand is perhaps the very best 3d beat em up/spectacle fighter ever made.
@@HunterForHire422 give it a second try when you begin to understand its mechanics it will click.
@@HunterForHire422 I've never seen it click with anyone on their first go. Using dodges and 180-degree quick turns for positioning is strange to get used to.
While I agree with your analysis, I'm surprised you didn't show what I thought would be the easiest showcase of how throws can be so punishing to use: the Chrome Dome boss battle on Gnarly, since he can take you out in about 4 hits with his punches from the foreground. If you throw at a bad time, you could lose over half your life or even more during your fling toss. It's pretty absurd lol.
I'm glad someone has taken note to this. I was hyped for this game and was left somewhat disappointed, i tend play most beat em ups and i always like to delve deep into its fighting system and combos.
I'm sorry to say this but this game is kind of busted, make no mistake it's completely OK if you want some casual fun, but if you're thinking on delving deep into its mechanics you're in for a rough time, and to mayo its not only the throws that are an issue its a lot of things the awkward cooldown after each dodge or flips, the uneven move set and strange and weak aerial play.
turtles in time throws were the best imo and they need to add that to this game.
As someone I feel like understands Fighting game fundamentals a tiny bit Decent it’s really interesting to hear about Beat em up mechanics “I know nothing about them lol”
I kinda felt like you was just gonna say “Well I a invisible throw because it’s OD lol” which is fine. But you explain your Views Very well and the more I hear you the more I agree with you. Great Video
Thanks!
You just want every game be like SOR4! 😎
Have you played midnight fight Express? it's a new beat him up on game pass.
After stewing on your video for a bit, and watching it like 3 times, I feel like there can be a more dynamic option for Fling than just not being able to use it on higher tier Foot.
Each Low-Tier Foot has 4 health points. Make Fling do 4 points of damage upon execution. If the 4 points of damage is not enough to eliminate the Foot, they will screen bounce and land somewhere back into the arena. Otherwise it plays out the same.
Great videos man! I will definitely see more of you in the future.
My biggest issue with the throws is that you don't have invincibility frames when you perform them
@@RG7621 I have the current update and it helps so much
Everything you said is true. I don’t get why grabbing is an option. My wife and I were very excited for this game to come out but we’re over it.
Its too hard when grabbing an enemy and some enemies are fast enough to hit you
I like this game but it lack the replayability, sor4 set the bar super high for me
good analysis. I was doing good woth throws. now i see why
And why the actual fook did they allow us to grab non-throwable enemies? Like you said, you often grab them by accident and it leads to you taking unnecessary damage 😩 they need to fix that asap it’s such bs
in SOR4 grabs dont save you from bombs tho
So?
I agree but it's not a deal breaker I love this game and streets of rage 4
iFrames would be nice. But one thing you forgot is adding iFrames trivializes Chrome Dome boss fight. Best solution is give us higher damage and make it an actual button so you do it in accident. On controller for example there’s 4 buttons that aren’t even being used. So why is the throw just automatic when I get to close. I end up grabbing people when I wanna punch and I have to be close because I play as characters like Raph and Mikey with low range. Just make it an actual command and give higher damage. iFrames would be nice but the fling toss interaction with Chrome Dome would break that fight and the fight is already easy especially for it’s higher level, doesn’t need to be made easier.
Between a better grab system and preserving that cancerous fight's challenge Id rather have proper grabs. The way enemies track your proximity is busted enough to make approaching for a throw less reliable anyway, and they can simply throw in more difficult enemy combos during that fight, instead of relying on basic foot ninjas
@@quackstack4246 cancerous fight. I’m assuming you die on that fight?😂. Fights way to easy. I agree adding in more challenging ninjas would be better. It being lvl 13 they should a lot. Actually make it cancerous. Like give us the black ninjas, white ninjas, the lime green spear ninjas, axe ninjas. Basically all the non throwable ones and occasionally throw in like one purple or shield ninja as like the character you have to throw at Chrome Dome while dodging all the other guys.
@@doom8171 Sure I do, it can be pretty chaotic cuz of how much rng it has & how much damage it does. Even when I don't the janky distance tracking enemies do is annoying, real easy to take chip damage. I'm not the only one either, even people who cleared Gnarly Arcade without dying with all characters think the fight can be really inconsistent. Point is though, any lower difficulty that would result from unfucking the throws can be brought back in better ways
@@quackstack4246 True. I only play on Gnarly so I kinda forget about the other difficulties. But true. I feel like some changes are gonna require other changes and who knows if we think about those secondary changes there might be problems. This game might be built to the point where’s there’s little to change with complete overhauls in other aspects. At the end of the day the fact they didn’t even consider dlc makes me think they didn’t consider very many updates and definitely game changing updates, maybe just like what they’ve been doing like glitch updates. So we might not get much.
@@doom8171 Yeah I've only ever played Gnarly aswell. There could be knockon effects from changing throws but it's unlikely to be anything critical but yeah I doubt they'll change anything major at this point. We might get a balancing patch like what SOR4 got but that's it. Would be cool if they made a sequel and fleshed all this stuff out (and added a routes system to arcade mode so it isn't a 2 hour long slog)
This game ALSO tries really hard to give you as LITTLE invincibility frames as possible. If I die and am just spawning in there should be NO reason why the enemy should get a free hit on me without me getting the ability to react
And the fact that you lose meter that you built up before you died and are reset back to 0 is just one of the dumbest things in the game.
Oh man! Another issue with this game. When you lose a life and come back the enemies just cherry pick a hit off you. It's ridiculous, no time to recover.
I don't like that team up attacks get in the way of your combo as well
Has anyone else gotten stuck in the air during attacks?
Fling toss should cost your power gage
I think you are comparing TMNT to SoR a little too much. These are two games with completely different design philosophies. SoR always had a deeper throw mechanic which defined it in the beat'em up genre.
The s were given to the dodge instead of the throw so that players weren't demigods with invincibility everywhere. Also, TMNT does not have a dedicated grappler. So throws are in the game as just a way to change up a player's approach.
It doesn't sound like you play a lot of fighting games either because throw counters are very prevalent in those (which I find to be refreshing). The changes you seem to be asking for will essentially turn TMNT into SoR. Each game is going to have a different focus and I think they nailed the mechanics so that there is still at least a little bit of challenge.
Hey, I just wanna mention that Delta has made the Master Campaign for TAG2. I wonder if you have played it and have something to say about it.
Don't let this distract you by the extreme lack of the most important turtle in this gameplay
I don't like the grabs being automatic. Standing there and doing nothing in order to do a grab just feels strange and unnatural. I'd rather be active and push a button or even a combination in order to grab someone. My controller has four shoulder buttons that go unused, surely they could have put a grab onto one of those? The way it's set up now it's like I gotta stop whatever flow I've build up throughout the level just to do a throw. Because of this the only time I ever intentionally went for grabs and throws was when a level had a challenge involving them. If they ever do add in a grab button or combination of buttons leave the option in for the current system, because I'm sure other people like it, and more options are good.
Also I played on PC, so I have no idea if this is unique for that version or not, but sometimes when I do a throw it just does the Fling Toss even though I did the input for one of the other kinds of throws. I'm trying to throw limited enemies into pits here, I hate having to restart a level because the game decided I was Fling Tossing everyone. Made even worse by there being no restart option, gotta back out into the menu, then navigate back into the level I wanna complete challenges on. Each thing may not be all that annoying, but they certainly compound into a bigger problem.
Also also I don't expect this to be changed since it would take making new sprites, but I find it weird that I can't grab an enemy, and then keep on hitting them while they're grabbed. Maybe that could be an option in a sequel if that ever happens.
Edit: Thinking about it now, having throws be mapped to doing nothing feels like a decision that would make more sense in the age of the arcade. Like the devs were told "We can only afford four buttons per player on the machine" but this ain't the arcade days any more.
Turtle in Time agarrões também eram ruins, talvez isso seja uma referência aos jogos antigos
Did they ever patch the broken taunt? The fact you can just sit in a corner and taunt into super spam the entire game?
throws are way too weak in this, especially since you're vulnerable while doing them. The only throw really worth using on higher difficulties is the "fling toss" and that only applies to the enemies that can actually be thrown...
again agreed 100% throws are a issue. so is the meter system the taunt spam is killing me.
I’m also not a fan of a like of different attacked
I think it be better if they stole from castle crashers
Light. Heavy, “special “
Nah!!Cant wait for cowabunga collection,nothin compare to the throw in 1989 arcade,its random and throw them on the wall.I've finished the game and some stages are lame.
This is what I was afraid of when I found out tribute games was going to be developing it and dotemu would only assist, Had dotemu Been in charge this wouldn’t have been a problem.
Yeah, throws without I frames sucks
they gonna change nothing
I'm assuming as much, but I still wanna try. I've helped get some games to change before.
@@underthemayo yes, games created by people who care and have creative freedom,
but publishers of this game don't have such reputation, more like "sell once and forget" kind of publishers
I wish the controls on this game was like streets of rage 4 🤦🏾♂️
Why. Did throws…. HAVE TO BE GOING UP TO THEM!!! INSTEAD OF A BUTTON PRESS
i can understand why you'd say this before even watching the video. The throws are pretty weak compared to what they were in turtles in time.
You should show this vídeo to the developers.
Minor correction. Most throws in SOR4 that have invincibility are invincible for the entire animation. Although it seems like you understood that because you mentioned you can special afterwards. Guess the wording was just a bit weird.
You can still get hit in the recovery frames if you miss time it. Look at the example where I get hit using max's throw. Even mashing special there's a window in there where you're vulnerable.
@@underthemayo I kinda hate to argue about this because I just got done with this super obnoxious argument about SOR4 game mechanics with someone on discord, but most throws that have invincibility are 100% invincible, with no vulnerability at the end. This includes Blaze's back throw, Max's back throw, etc.
@@Enoby_Darkness I'm not saying I DON'T believe you, but why is it that sometimes I throw and then get hit near the end before I can move even though I'm hitting special? That's what happened in the examples I showed here.
@@underthemayo just human error, I assume. It happens.
Agree on this
Completely not true; lack of i-frames just means there's a skill ceiling involved. But each throw DOES have a purpose; & a defensive/offensive application. And it really sounds like you didn't learn the ins & outs of throws nor adapt your approach coming from SOR4.
I can't count the number of times they've helped w/ crowd control in a pinch; left/right throws for enemies closing from whichever side & the up throw when they approach from both. The fling toss to clear an enemy outta the way quickly when I realize I don't have time to waste on him....(& also to damage Chrome Dome when he goes first-person).....but none of that works if you don't learn not to grab when enemies are half a screen away or closer; it's a different mindset from SOR4 b/c they're 2 very different kinds of beat-em-up....Rage being more methodical in nature while Turtles is more fast-paced. Which actually makes me respect the devs more for understanding the DNA of both franchises.
Grab & hit & i-frames makes alot more sense for SOR4 & the way throws are setup in TMNT is very in-line with the think on your feet nature of the arcade games (& btw you CAN backflip outta grabs on enemies that can't be thrown yet...)
TL; DR throws are fine & do serve unique purposes & they do not need to change them. TMNT doesn't need to try to be SOR4 nor vice-versa
Yeah, a skill ceiling to use an option that does things that your other easier options do more effectively. There's way better ways to defend yourself and go on the offense than throws and occasional instances where they could be useful isn't a defense of how poorly are made here. Watch people play this game deathless and see how they don't give a crap about throws because they're too risky of an option for too little benefit.
And I don't need it to be SOR4. SOR4 isn't the only beatemup with I frames for defensive grabs. Like every beatemup ever including the old turtles ones. And like i said here, if they don't give them I frames they could at least increase damage done to hit enemies to make them better offensive and crowd control options since basic footsoliders can be hit by 3 and still live. They're just not a good option when compared to everything else you can do.
@@underthemayo and yet when I was playing earlier tonight I found myself using throws as effortlessly as any other attack w/o having to think about it; just like any other time I've played. There IS a skill ceiling, but I never said it was a high one. I don't have to 'defend' throws; I just know that I can't be an idiot about how I use them & understand they were never meant to be the focus of the game. They have a different & equally useful function & that's ok. I don't hafta watch people play deathless; I can play deathless & have no problem with the throw mechanics. Have fun nitpicking tho...
@@ghostdog3566 You're saying that there's a skill ceiling to use throws. Okay then that's the point. Getting into using throws takes a lot more effort than just mashing attack and dodging. And the reward for that effort and dealing with the risk... is barely anything. Nothing that just attacking and dodging wouldn't already solve 99% of the time, and that's my whole point. Throws don't have any kind of strong role, and I think the game would be more interesting with it. I'd actually want to use them, and I really want to want that.
@@underthemayo in a game where using ninja weaponry is the main focus & they didn't want people to cheese spam grabs ??? I'm ok w/ that. I'm also ok w/ there being a skill ceiling b/c otherwise it turns into the shallower button-mashing experience the older arcade games were. You're making a big deal out of a non-issue...& being hella dramatic about it. Main reason I even posted is b/c you said you can't effectively use throws for crowd control & they don't each have a unique purpose & that's a whole ass lie b/c a i immediately thought about how often I use them. Said you can't use the up throw/side throws when enemies on either side & that's exactly what I use it for. Like everything you say you can't do w/ throws is exactly what they designed them for; while still making it different enough from SOR4 & I actually find that commendable.
The fact that you spend half this vid talking about SOR4 & everything you're complaining about tells me you basically wanted Turtles to play like SOR4 when the 2 games are apples & oranges of the beat-em-up genre...
Don't get me wrong; SOR4 is my all-time favorite beat-em-up. But Shredder's Revenge is right behind it; as one who came up on the arcade game & Turtles in Time they nailed what made those games special while evolving it at the same time & that's a helluva accomplishment.
Hell; if ANYTHING needs to be patched it's taunt spam in multi-player. But throws??? Lol nah.
I really like shredders revenge but mechanically it isn’t up to streets of rage 4 standards, I love the pixel art graphics and tmnt so it was a no brainier to buy it but sor4 is 100% the better game, in every way! And I never go for throws especially on the harder difficulties, it just gets you killed. Throws do indeed suck in this game
They were op on tmnt 4
I just use throws because i think it looks cool
And now they have I frames!
Yes they suck I normally throw them at the enemies to crowd control but they kind shit in this game. Low damage and no strategic advantage.
Actually using throws against high powered enemies is good because different moves have different levels of attack damage.
It works well in Streets of Rage and even in Turtles in time they work better
Definitely should have s and give meter