Men and Women in Christianity- With Fr. Panayiotis Papageorgiou
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2018
- What does Ephesians 5:21-33 and Saint John Chrysostom say about the relationship between a man and woman in Marriage?
The question posed in the video: Over time, scripture regarding submission has been commonly used to justify male chauvinism and superiority within a marriage. What is the true meaning behind scripture like Ephesians 5:21-33?
Cover photo by www.nuntatraditionala.ro
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0:50 Is wife submission to husband = chauvinism?
1:09 “Be subject to one another.”
Wives subject to Husband
Husband subject to Wife
2:10 Be ready to die for your Love
2:41 Love Her as You Love Your Own Body
3:35 “He who Loves His Wife, Loves Himself.”
4:40 Created From Rib of The Side of Man, she’s not Over Man, she’s not Beneath Man, she’s meant to be Beside Man
5:15 Equality In Christ
6:19 Equality of All Beings
It was from a women that Christ was born, it was from a women knowledge of the Resurrection first came to be known
Thank you for a correct teaching about what scripture says. It is a shame too many have perverted this with their own version of subjugation and abuse. If you love the wife/husband as you love yourself there is no room for abuse, oppression and subjugation.
A lot of commenters missed the point of this video, especially in context of Orthodox theology and, plainly, the whole point of life. Remember Christ's commandments and the Last Judgement. Remember that pride is the root of all evil, and humility the root of all good. This applies for all relationships! I am a male and try to realize this.
Some of these comments show why this video was needed. So much of the religious rhetoric and abusive rhetoric sound identical that it’s hard to tell it apart. When someone dares to add nuance and point out that women are humans too you can see how uncomfortable it makes those who use religion to sanitize their abusive views. ❤ Thank you, Father.
Excellent video. Many people misunderstand and misuse this text, but understood within context it makes perfect sense.
Galatians 3:28: There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Amin, vëlla!
Thank you for such clarity, very beautifully put.
God bless you, Father, and your lovely church, may it continue to thrive! God bless your family also.
💖💖💖💖💖💖💖💖💖💖💖
One thing that I think was missed here and about which I've been thinking: St Paul says that women are supposed to submit themselves to the husband as the Church submits herself to Christ. But it is plainly obvious that the relationship between Church and Christ is not like the one between the slave and the master.
There is a subtile nuance there which, of course, modern people miss completely. Actually modern people do not hear anything nowadays anymore in the Wedding service except this one verse, taken out of context.
Beautiful beyond words. God bless you, Father, and thank you.
God created woman from a rib from Adam. A place close to his heart, also he can put his arms around her and gentile holds her close to his heart.
It's not a question of equality. Both perform different functions and compliment each other.
I love orthodoxy!! ❤❤😊
Thank you for this.
I think chauvinism is a false term. Its been used to divide men and women, especially now. God created Men perfectly, protection, provision, and leadership. Understanding God's role for men leaves the life for women quite free and creative and to equally fullfill what God has in mind for men. Its a fluid and not rgid relationship. Orthodoxy is very wonderful in teaching that understanding.
Saad Bin Masud. Do you even now how painful child birth is. I wouldn’t call it nothing
I think the problem is the idea that God created men perfectly means that men are perfectly suited for their role because that leads to major narcissism within the Christian view of marriage. However God created man there has since been a great fall and thousands of years of sin. Too many men today aren’t in any shape yo lead their families and are hyper focused on women being submissive. It’s sick. And before everyone starts saying not my husband, yeah not mind either, but I’m talking about the common trends in todays world not every single man.
@Miss Interpretation True, Steven Crowder is an excellent contemporary example of abuse caused by complementarian ideas, which in turn is being defended by conplementarian ideologues. It turns the stomach. Pray for that woman and her family.
And although nobody asked, I further argue that hierarchy of men over women isn't biblical nor traditional. "The Making of Biblical Womanhood" provides an authoritatively researched historical argument, while "The Book of Eden - Genesis 2-3" and "The Bible vs. Biblical Womanhood' by Bruce C. E. Fleming and Philip Barton Payne, respectively, present scriptural arguments against male hierarchal authority over women far more adeptly than I can.
I also have an Orthodox book on marriage which presents much the same view without bothering to go into detailed arguments against "male headship" (a term not found in Scripture nor rightly derived from Ephesians 5)
Of course as Orthodox Christians, we're free to differ in theologumina such as this, as long as we hold tight to dogma. Nevertheless, I would recommend looking into this subject. Our marriage has been so much easier since we ceased seeking to impose made-up rules on it. Having grown up as Evangelicals in the throes of Purity Culture and Complementarian rhetoric, it took a lot of convincing to see things from this perspective, but the journey was worth it. Suffice to say, our marriage and our lives in Christ have flourished in ways previously unimaginable as a result.
Glory to God!
I agree with the idea that one is not above the other in dignity, as children of God, and it is awful for one to abuse the other. But I disagree with the notion that there is absolutely no difference in male and female. There is a significance to the analogy to Christ and the Church in Ephesians, because men and woman created differently, with different natures because they fulfill different roles in an ideal marriage relationship.
Nothing to disagree with because we agree with you. Father was tackling a specific issue here. The video is 7 minutes, and his purpose was not to go into an in-depth exegesis of Ephesians. This video was to help people who struggle with the idea that Paul meant that women are somehow lesser than men. In the future, we can also discuss the finer points of the relationship between men and women, as seen by Paul and the early church Fathers.
@@Trisagionfilms Understood, thank you for your response. God bless you.
Thank you Fr. Panayiotis for your kind words. May I ask what English translation he is reading from?
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❤️
as ancient men used to die for their better halves, likewise women are going to Glory for their eternal allies
nowadays.
Husband is the head of the family and is the dominant one and should be obeyed as long as he is loving and caring towards his family, that what in most of primates. On the other hand, Husband should respect his wife's needs and should do whatever he could to make her happy in her life, even it meant for him to sacrifice himself.
Shame on all secular thinking that has taken out the Lord in family. Gullible women shall be many in the last days. The feminist movement was nothing more than a trick ftom the devil. Each are to respect each other in marriage and love each other. Husband belongs to wife and wife belongs to husband. Marriage is from God and always has been, He takes two and makes them one it's a covenant bond and is forever until death.
Thy husband is thy lord, thy life, thy keeper,
Thy head, thy sovereign, one that cares for thee,
And for thy maintenance; commits his body
To painful labor, both by sea and land;
To watch the night in storms, the day in cold,
Whilst thou li’st warm at home, secure and safe;
And craves no other tribute at thy hands
But love, fair looks, and true obedience-
Too little payment for so great a debt.
Such duty as the subject owes the prince,
Even such a woman oweth to her husband;
And when she is froward, peevish, sullen, sour,
And no obedient to his honest will,
What is she but a foul contending rebel,
And graceless traitor to her loving lord?
I asham’d that women are so simple
‘To offer war where they should kneel for peace,
Or seek for rule, supremacy, and sway,
When they are bound to serve, love, and obey.
Why are our bodies soft, and weak, and smooth,
Unapt to toil and trouble in the world,
But that our soft conditions, and our hearts,
Should well agree with our external parts?
― William Shakespeare, The Taming of the Shrew
That's the wisdom of men and not of God.
Edit: Women are also called life and keepers.
Yes yes, the other source of divine revelation outside Holy Tradition and the Holy Scriptures, William Shakespeare
Shakespeare is not the Gospel.
In reality the issue here is not submission but hierarchy, and hierarchy is the opposite of equality. Equality is a modern anti-Christian concept. In the same way that there is a hierarchy in the Holy Trinity there must be a hierarchy in the family. If not, then the Orthodox Church should also accept the Filioque and follow Western Christianity into modernity and its eventual demise.
Yiannos Paraskeva omg
The idea that the trinity is a hierarchy isn’t biblical, at least not in the Christian bible. All three are equally god and none are above the other. But hey, stick you your views. I’m sure you’ll end up in a terrible marriage or you’ll end up on ur own.
May the Lord enlighten you and give you better understanding and discernment! Seek clarification from Orthodoxy and stay away from Protestant views! My best wishes for you
YP - What a marriage you have in mind...
@@icxcnika2037 Yes, but in that case submission or authority means nothing essential, which I think was the idea. If you love with humility, love and sacrifice, then the submission will be equal, so to speak. I will try to put it this way: women are no animals, they do have the power of reason, speech etc. As such, we will have opinions - sometimes we are right, sometimes we are wrong. A man who is loving and sacrificial will try to listen and understand. A woman who is loving and sacrificial, in turn, will do the same with her husband. And if there is love and sacrifice on both sides, they will come to an understanding together - a compromise, or sometimes the wife does as her husband wants, or sometimes the husband does as his wife wants. What does authority even means in that case ?
Wives submit to husbands husbands love your wives, the Christ said; I have come to serve not to be served, Christ is love for God is love, so the hidden truth in this scripture is, wives submit to husbands husbands serve your wives, the only reason why man sits in authority and power over woman is because of his flesh, he's carnality, but in the Christ we rise above all carnality, only the carnal male will hold onto his authority and power over woman, if the scripture said; husbands submit to wives, how many men in this world would accepted it.
Furthermore; there is no gender in the kingdom of god, it is gender neutral, gender only exist because of the flesh, but the flesh counts for nothing the spirit is life, to live in the Christ is to live in the spirit, not The flesh.
Nowhere in the bible does it say he sits in authority because of flesh. Paul was not talking in flesh state
@@KamiTenchi I think he meant that the tendency for men to take authority over women comes from the flesh. The most stark example in Genesis coming from Lamech's song (or threat?) to his wives in Genesis 4:23 and 24: "...Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt.
24 If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold." -KJV
Never miss an opportunity to signal.
God bless Father and thanks to Trisagion for these videos.
Equality is a modernist devilish concept.
In true Christianity there is harmony and love in HIERARCHY. Husband's duty to his wife is of a different nature than wife's duty.
We are also one in the Lord, when it comes to divine truth and mysteries, but different. Male are obviously different from females. However the apostle says in Christ there are no differences. Is he denying biology?
Certainly not. He is speaking from the metaphysical realm not the created realm. In creation we are all different. When seen from above, we are all one.
The marital relationship is a partnership. That's why it's important to be equally YOKED...
Teddy, you will find no one more reactionary of a guy than me; I hate the French and Industrial Revolutions with all my heart. Yet even I see the point of this video in its essence of emphasizing humble devotion and Christlike love rooted in sacrifice and following God's will, in all aspects of life.
@@stpierreforjesusthesavior984 Absolutely. A yoked team is side by side, or it's no team at all.
This is extremely ambiguous.
I disagree
Nice try.
Try again.