Thanks for the videos! I really like the Oregon raker gauge and have used this style for over 45 years. I leave it in place to use it. Because it is not hardened, I believe my files last longer and I find it pretty easy to just file the raker without digging into the gauge. Also, here in the US, I can buy a 10-pack for $35. One usually lasts me several years. This is my take away from your videos, I'll use my Oregon gauge until about half the tooth is filed away, then I'll switch to a progressive for the last half. Plus always shape the rakers. Once the West Coast gauge I ordered comes, I might just use the progressive all the way, if I like it better than the Oregon.
@@ChainsawUsers Thanks for the reply. I have old ones that are hardened and new ones that aren't. My point is that I don't have an issue with the new ones because I believe they are easier on my files, they last long enough for something costing $3.50.
Excellent verbalisation - thanks. me? I just hit the rakers lighty after every sharpen - works for me. Obviously if the sawchain ain't "cuttin' it" I hit 'em harder.
Always fun watching you're content, learning something new and interesting. 👍 I've been using file o plate for 30 years or more. My jonsereds dealer, still repairs saws at 76 years old. Sold Carlton chain and related products. ❤ Pat from northwest WI USA
This is a bit to technical, These are 2 different theories. Carlton's idea and the file o plates were a progressive gauge but did not maintain a constant attack angle. None of the information from Carlton mentioned the idea of attack angles, that was later on (early 2000's) from a guy called Bobl who used this idea for milling chains where the cutter reacts in a very different way. The Carlton plates reference from the rear of the cutter in front of the depth that is gauge being set. It alters the raker in reference to the top plate length but does not maintain a constant angle throughout its life. That fixed reference point at the front means the angle changes as it wears back. Newer husky combo guides do something similar referencing off a rivet with the front edge of the gauge being bent down. There where multiple versions of Carlton file plates for each chain pitch. This is from him recognising the need for both different filing angles (side / top plate) and different raker heights depending on cutting conditions and saw size. All used 35 degree filing angles but held the file at different heights. These plates work extremely well on Carlton chain but are limited on other manufactures chains due to differences in the cutter geometry and raker design. From Carlton, "Each gauge plate is dimensioned to fit different chains of a particular pitch and two or more different gauge plates are provided for each pitch for sharpening to cut soft wood or hard or frozen wood." And, "thus, the depth gauge on a particular chain may be approximately .030 inch lower than the cutting edge on top plate portion but this dimension varies with the size of the chain and the horsepower of the motor and whether soft wood or hard or frozen wood is to be cut." As for the attack angle side of things, it's a great theory but it just does appear to work for cross cutting in the real world. The optimal angle is almost imposable to find. It changes with so many variables and what's right for one chain doesn't work for another. Chasing it requires you to use an angle gauge or dial indicator to set the heights Most importantly for any of this to work you need the cutter to be passed the point of rising when contacting wood and with most chains available today are past the point of bending or breaking cutters before reaching that stage. Some will get there but not many
I have a digital angle gauge and have set it up to measure attack angles. At the end of my life, I still get at least 5.4° attack angle using FL4 gauge. The stihl FL4 gauge for 3/8 chain gives a very good uniform attack angle. I also have software so you can make your own gauges which I did. With the software you customise attack angles for whatever chain you desire. I have always found my Stihl progressive depth tool to be very uniform. I also have a digital vernier setuo to check cutter height of raker to cutter ratio. The best attack angle is 6.3° but the Stihl gauge will only do 5.5 maximum attack angle.
I have a digital angle gauge and have set it up to measure attack angles. At the end of my life, I still get at least 5.4° attack angle using FL4 gauge. The stihl FL4 gauge for 3/8 chain gives a very good uniform attack angle. I also have software so you can make your own gauges which I did. With the software you customise attack angles for whatever chain you desire. I have always found my Stihl progressive depth tool to be very uniform. I also have a digital vernier setuo to check cutter height of raker to cutter ratio. The best attack angle is 6.3° but the Stihl gauge will only do 5.5 maximum attack angle.
@@ChainsawUsers There is 2 different styles of these gauges that do different jobs, The Stihl and husky / EM flat type - these maintain an angle. File o plate, most husky combos and WSC gauges - these all use a fixed front reference point. They will progressively lower but not maintain a set angle. I'm staying out of it from here, 11 attempts, 1 was better, 5 were within the margin of error (+/- 5% or less), 5 were slower. There may be a theoretical optimal angle but I'm confident that it does not translate I to real world results. Shape has a much bigger and more consistent effect
I DO KNOW THIS: those from WCS are extremely good and wear proof. The only thing that a file will EVER do to them is get the bluing off. Those are so good that I carry it in my wallet. In fact, if you’re in a pinch you can even use the one that’s designed for 3/8 (it’s what I’ve got) you “can” use that same gauge on your 325 chain, BUT you must use the 035 part and then you’ll end up with the 025 setting when you compare it with a proper tool, because I’ve done it! 😁 YES I love to experiment. 😊
This was a helpful video. I have used the Stihl version, but really prefer the version from West Coast Saw. Please provide information about what settings you recommend for various types of cutting and sizes of saws. You did say you prefer the setting for soft wood, but I do not know what that translates to numerically on the WCS raker gauge. Thanks -
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Very informative, thank you for posting
You just made me confident in my decision to order the Husky progressive gauge for all my chain sizes. Thanks!
Thanks for the videos! I really like the Oregon raker gauge and have used this style for over 45 years. I leave it in place to use it. Because it is not hardened, I believe my files last longer and I find it pretty easy to just file the raker without digging into the gauge. Also, here in the US, I can buy a 10-pack for $35. One usually lasts me several years. This is my take away from your videos, I'll use my Oregon gauge until about half the tooth is filed away, then I'll switch to a progressive for the last half. Plus always shape the rakers. Once the West Coast gauge I ordered comes, I might just use the progressive all the way, if I like it better than the Oregon.
If you have the old one 45 years, it will be harderlned. The new ones are soft really soft
@@ChainsawUsers Thanks for the reply. I have old ones that are hardened and new ones that aren't. My point is that I don't have an issue with the new ones because I believe they are easier on my files, they last long enough for something costing $3.50.
Excellent verbalisation - thanks. me? I just hit the rakers lighty after every sharpen - works for me. Obviously if the sawchain ain't "cuttin' it" I hit 'em harder.
Nowhere do you show how to use the progressive gauge.
It just sits over the tooth and you file it
Always fun watching you're content, learning something new and interesting. 👍 I've been using file o plate for 30 years or more. My jonsereds dealer, still repairs saws at 76 years old. Sold Carlton chain and related products. ❤
Pat from northwest WI USA
Blount brought Carlton and now they discontinued that product. What a shame
This is a bit to technical,
These are 2 different theories. Carlton's idea and the file o plates were a progressive gauge but did not maintain a constant attack angle. None of the information from Carlton mentioned the idea of attack angles, that was later on (early 2000's) from a guy called Bobl who used this idea for milling chains where the cutter reacts in a very different way.
The Carlton plates reference from the rear of the cutter in front of the depth that is gauge being set. It alters the raker in reference to the top plate length but does not maintain a constant angle throughout its life. That fixed reference point at the front means the angle changes as it wears back. Newer husky combo guides do something similar referencing off a rivet with the front edge of the gauge being bent down.
There where multiple versions of Carlton file plates for each chain pitch. This is from him recognising the need for both different filing angles (side / top plate) and different raker heights depending on cutting conditions and saw size. All used 35 degree filing angles but held the file at different heights. These plates work extremely well on Carlton chain but are limited on other manufactures chains due to differences in the cutter geometry and raker design.
From Carlton,
"Each gauge plate is dimensioned to fit different chains of a particular pitch and two or more different gauge plates are provided for each pitch for sharpening to cut soft wood
or hard or frozen wood."
And,
"thus, the depth gauge on a particular chain may be approximately .030 inch lower than the cutting edge on top plate portion but this dimension varies with the size of the chain and the horsepower of the motor and whether soft wood or hard or frozen wood is to be cut."
As for the attack angle side of things, it's a great theory but it just does appear to work for cross cutting in the real world. The optimal angle is almost imposable to find. It changes with so many variables and what's right for one chain doesn't work for another. Chasing it requires you to use an angle gauge or dial indicator to set the heights
Most importantly for any of this to work you need the cutter to be passed the point of rising when contacting wood and with most chains available today are past the point of bending or breaking cutters before reaching that stage. Some will get there but not many
I have a digital angle gauge and have set it up to measure attack angles.
At the end of my life, I still get at least 5.4° attack angle using FL4 gauge.
The stihl FL4 gauge for 3/8 chain gives a very good uniform attack angle. I also have software so you can make your own gauges which I did. With the software you customise attack angles for whatever chain you desire.
I have always found my Stihl progressive depth tool to be very uniform.
I also have a digital vernier setuo to check cutter height of raker to cutter ratio.
The best attack angle is 6.3° but the Stihl gauge will only do 5.5 maximum attack angle.
I have a digital angle gauge and have set it up to measure attack angles.
At the end of my life, I still get at least 5.4° attack angle using FL4 gauge.
The stihl FL4 gauge for 3/8 chain gives a very good uniform attack angle. I also have software so you can make your own gauges which I did. With the software you customise attack angles for whatever chain you desire.
I have always found my Stihl progressive depth tool to be very uniform.
I also have a digital vernier setuo to check cutter height of raker to cutter ratio.
The best attack angle is 6.3° but the Stihl gauge will only do 5.5 maximum attack angle.
@@ChainsawUsers There is 2 different styles of these gauges that do different jobs,
The Stihl and husky / EM flat type - these maintain an angle.
File o plate, most husky combos and WSC gauges - these all use a fixed front reference point. They will progressively lower but not maintain a set angle.
I'm staying out of it from here, 11 attempts, 1 was better, 5 were within the margin of error (+/- 5% or less), 5 were slower. There may be a theoretical optimal angle but I'm confident that it does not translate I to real world results. Shape has a much bigger and more consistent effect
Great video T.O thanks
Glad you enjoyed it
I DO KNOW THIS: those from WCS are extremely good and wear proof. The only thing that a file will EVER do to them is get the bluing off. Those are so good that I carry it in my wallet. In fact, if you’re in a pinch you can even use the one that’s designed for 3/8 (it’s what I’ve got) you “can” use that same gauge on your 325 chain, BUT you must use the 035 part and then you’ll end up with the 025 setting when you compare it with a proper tool, because I’ve done it! 😁 YES I love to experiment. 😊
Thanks Todd for your opinion
This was a helpful video. I have used the Stihl version, but really prefer the version from West Coast Saw. Please provide information about what settings you recommend for various types of cutting and sizes of saws. You did say you prefer the setting for soft wood, but I do not know what that translates to numerically on the WCS raker gauge. Thanks -
Thanks for your question. I will make a video covering all those settings in the future.
The aussies seem to always be able to get the cool stuff we can't get in the US. It's maddening. Then you probably feel the opposite lol.
Trouble is you show these tools but not necessarily how to use them !
Most of these tools are really self explanatory. But that said what tool would you like to seen being used
@@ChainsawUsers Different raker tools