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Covenant Theology Compared to Dispensationalism
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- Опубликовано: 26 июл 2024
- Progressive Covenantalism, Reformed Baptist Covenant Theology, Theonomy, Dispensationalism. How do we navigate these varied and muddy waters? In this short video, I attempt to cut through the fog and introduce listeners to the differences between these positions.
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“Do you like?” Probably the least important question in studying theology. What I like, what interests me means nothing. What does the Bible teach? That is the appropriate question.
I understand this perspective, but I believe resonance and intuition matter more than traditional evangelicalism gives credit for. You are certainly erring on the proper side however.
This is my first encounter with your channel and the sorting out of these theologies! Great job sharing the points of views and some jarring questions with each...lol!! Brain is cramping as I continue on my journey of knowing God and His Word!😄
Thank you for replying to my other comments down the page. Eager to hear more of your videos....new subscriber!
God Bless!
Hello Pastor Tanner, thank you for this video. It is wonderful that you could provide such a succinct and objective review.
Thank you so much, oof! I appreciate you.
Many Christians argue and divide over these issues yet in the end, it doesn't really matter. Will one be punished for taking a position? No. Will one be sinful for taking a position? No. The same goes for eschatology.
I generally agree with this, however I do feel Covenant Theology and Dispensationalism is a little more important than eschatology because it colors how you read the entirety of the Bible. However, I really appreciate your attitude toward secondary doctrines.
@@PastorTanner I did read over Hebrews 8 and I would say verse 13 is the most prolific. But I would agree that reading Hebrews 8 does put one into introspection.
I have questioned this exact thing myself often. As an unmarried and content to remain so female, I apologize and don't mean to offend any here. However, I have a question. How can we NOT say that we will not stand before God in judgment because we believed a falsehood? I understand we wouldn't suffer eternal punishment, but couldn't this take away from when we will face God and give account for all that we have done? Why suffer to have believed a lie? I struggle in particular because I have a dear Aunt and Uncle who are Pentecostal, and it tears me up to know she is believing in falsehood.
I’m always trying to figure out with dispensation ideology how do we fit Isaiah 56 through 66 ? Like if God mentioned the strangers embracing the sabbath and if it doesn’t matter anymore for me kinda hard to make the Bible flow in certain respects. The same can be said regarding eating swine flesh. If God gonna judge those who eat in the future and it hasn’t happened yet how do we interpret in light of the New Testament?
The real problem is when people start worshipping the state of Israel. You will be punished for that.
Fantastic content brother. This was very helpful and informative. Thanks
Thanks, Kevin! Appreciate the encouragement! :)
Thank you for posting this video! It was the most straightforward and helpful presentation of the spectrum of perspectives on Covenantal and Dispensational theology I have found so far. The charts and tables help! 👍 It is encouraging to further my study! Praise the Lord for ministers, pastors and teachers of the truth of God's Word! 📖
God is faithful to help us understand all matters pertaining to life and godliness, and no matter if I struggle to understand each perspective, I trust the truth of His Word completely, and what He has revealed to me thus far. Only one position can be the correct one, and so I believe He will help me come to understand what I need to know, ultimately in His time.
P.S.- also 👉 Your reference to Hebrews 8 is just what I was looking for! 👌 It's amazing how many of the those discussing these things on RUclips RARELY reference Scripture, particularly in their discussion of Dispensationalism and Eschatology. It's mostly reasoning on presuppositions, rather than expositing the Word. I know that take time, but I would prefer exposition to discussions that are over my head!
Thank you for the very encouraging feedback, Danielle.
I'm glad you are looking into this.
It is a really important topic and taps into Hermeneutics and Canon as well.
Pastor Tanner, it appears you've given a very fair exposition. Very informative!! Thank you for taking a reasoned look without putting forward your view in a domineering manner.
Thanks, Don! God bless!
Thank you. It's so hard to find material that isn't clearly biased in one direction of the other. You treated a tough subject fairly.
Thanks, Tom!
I agree. I appreciate that PastorTanner gave good insight to each position and questions for each position. It was as unbiased as I have seen.
What a great, neutral, fair minded video. You got yourself a new subscriber
Thank you! God bless. ❤️
This video is almost a year old and I'm only now finding it. I'm probably more of a Reformed Baptist Covenant Theology guy (I graduated from Reformed Baptist Seminary with a Master of Theological Studies). I agree with the covenants being progressive at least insofar as they are progressively revelatory, but that most of them are limited to the first book of the Torah as supporting the Mosaic Covenant indicates that their importance at being progressively revelatory ended with Moses. More significant than whether one is literalistic or figurative is to what extent we allow our systematic theology to inform our exegesis. In discussions with our Presbyterian brothers I've questioned their use of certain passages and have gotten the answer that we have to use our systematic theology to exegete these passages. That's not a good thing. Rather, it's important to exegete first and then adjust the system accordingly, even if we have to dismiss significant aspects of dearly held beliefs - like paedobaptism.
I'm teaching a class on this this summer at church entitled "Why We're Baptists" and it goes into the history of the development of credobaptism in the English Reformation. I won't have some of the detail you have here, but it's good to hear that someone else is making the same kinds of observations I am.
Fantastic comment, Jim. I agree that our Presbyterian brothers are too beholden to their systematics. Good luck with your future lesson!
Have you listened to James White’s fairly recent sermon series on baptism? It’s fantastic
@@jordankirk3634 I haven't seen that yet. Good lead. Thanks.
@@jordankirk3634 i have not. I’ll have to check it out.
If you adhere to denominationalism you are ignorant of the fact that there's not one denomination in the entire Bible.
Well-put sir! Speaking from a baptistic perspective, I think you cover this well.
This is so informative. Thank you!
Thank you for the positive feedback! :)
This commentary is very helpful. Baptists seem to me to be so religious that they turn off would be converts. As a former Unitarian Universalist, I know Jesus is the answer to all of my questions. These topics seem to be very divisive. You are blazing an important “peace agreement”among those who seek to be “right” and divide us. God bless your efforts 🙏
Thanks, Timothy! In appreciate your love and support. There is an inherent divisiveness that comes with many Christian denominations. Check out my video on fundamentalism for some of my further thoughts on that:
ruclips.net/video/dXCFrKLNxAI/видео.html
This was very helpful.
Dispensationalist here!
Very nice, Eternal Vision. Thanks for your encouragement. God bless.
Great video as usual. I did a search and I've got this book as a sleeper :-) Going to have a read. Thanks
Fantastic! I enjoyed it very much. Enjoy!
Hi I am a new Christian, only been 6 months but the hours I’ve been pouring in are more than a full time job. What I have learned is every Christian I’ve met has a different angle and they all believe they are right. Well this was news to me. I’ve been trying to not become a part of the division but at the same time categorize each view. Now I stumbled into this subject and I now see this is what I’m craving to dive in to and better understand and it will greatly help me not only take my own place in these categories but place others views in their appropriate place on the spectrum. Thanks!
No problem, Kevin! This is a worthy endeavor! Keep up the effort. I’ll pray for you.
You should look at Orthodox and Roman Catholic Bible teaching so you have actual interpretation that has been passed down through tradition. The Lord did not leave us a Bible but rather oral traditions/teachings which the RC church & Orthodox churches have safeguarded. The Douay-Rheims Bible with commentary would be a great guide to you.
@@lisanmc4536 I appreciate your comment, lisanmc. I find both traditional and contemporary interpretations to be helpful.
Even though I don’t hold your personal position, I liked the video because you gave a good big picture view of the positions.
I also agree with your Hebrews 8 observation, although I think we see it differently.
When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is BECOMING obsolete and GROWING old is READY TO disappear.
- Hebrews 8:13
It sounds like at the time of the writing of the book of Hebrews, the Old Covenant was still in effect. This lines up with what Jesus said:
For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
- Matthew 5:18
Very good points, Greg. I am very sympathetic to the covenant theology position. I just took a class on it and thoroughly enjoyed it. Thanks for the thoughtful ideas.
I don’t hold to the Covenant theology position. What I do believe is that we are in a time of Covenant transition. Just as the New Covenant is not fully implemented right now, the Old Covenant is not completely obsolete YET. I think this is congruent with the concept in this verse:
For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery-so that you will not be wise in your own estimation-that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
- Romans 11:25
@@gregt9085 Ah, interesting. I can see a good case to be made for that. There is an already/not-yetness to all of this and the sticky point is to figure out which aspects of the new covenant fall into which of those two categories. I tend to see more 'already' but these are in matters of degrees. I will say that I am interested in reading Gentry and Wellum's Kingdom Through Covenant very soon. I think it will help me in these regards.
If you keep reading from chapter 8 to chapter 12 it makes it clear the new covenant is established, comes through Christ, and is in effect. According to Galatians 4, one cannot be under the old and new covenant at the same time. If one turns to Christ, how could they possibly be under the old covenant still? They would then be under the new covenant, therefore the old passes away.
In reading from Hebrews 8-10 notice the language of "first" and "second." Also take into consideration how things are wrapped up in chapter 10, when the verses from Jeremiah 31 concerning the new covenant that were quoted in Hebrews 8 are quoted again, in context showing the fulfillment of the prophecy. Particularly verses 1-16.
- Verse 1: can never make those who approach perfect
Thank you, brother. I agree with most of the comments below, in that I appreciate your gracious and informative approach. I am a 73-year-old believer who has never been to seminary, but was a teaching elder at my church for more than 30 years. That church is squarely in the traditional dispensational camp. Further, the deep dive that I have personally taken into the prophecy of Isaiah for about the past 10 years has strengthened my own position in dispensationalism. For example, how can we say that the many promises that God made to Israel, particularly in ch. 40-66 of Isaiah, are not really to literal ethnic Israel, but are to the church? If God really didn't mean what those original hearers heard, how can we, the church, believe the beautiful promises of Romans 8, for example, are to us, the church? Maybe God didn't really mean that either! John Piper (no dispensationalist!) also makes this argument, from my recollection, as he goes into Romans 9.
Thank you for your thoughtful remark, Stephen. Thank you also for serving God's church faithfully for so many years. God bless.
-tanner
@@PastorTanner To God be the glory!
That was excellent, concise and well organized. Personally, it was a little surprising! For decades I have associated dispensationalism with the pretribulation rapture teaching, which I hold to be a significant error. I have seen people use a dispensational structure as a pseudo context for supporting a few end time features and events. I may not have given dispensationalism it’s self a fair shake because of this association. I am not currently studying dispensationalism, but if I do in the future, I am likely to purchase the book you referred to. I just stumbled onto your youtube channel. I am going to watch the video again later, but more closely. I was eating dinner when I watched it just now, so I did not give it my full attention. Thank you for your time!
Thank you so much, Dan for the kind words! God bless, and take care!
There are post trib dispensationalists like Robert Gundry and others
I am a progressive dispensationalist but hold more to a classic premillenial view. They are not connected, like many teachers seem to say. Just remember, premillenialism was the prevailing view up until Augustine.
@@PastorTanner PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT THE JEWISH TALMUD (WHICH IS THE GUIDE TO JEWISH BELIEF AND STANDS ABOVE AND INTURPRITS THE JEWISH TAHNAK OLD TESTEMENT) IT SAYS JESUS IS IN HELL, MARY IS A HARLOT THAT HAS A AFFAIR WITH A ROMAN SOLDER PANTERA JESUS REAL FATHER!, NON JEWS ARE GOYUM WHICH ARE PEOPLE OF LOWER CLASSTHAT WILL BE SURVENTS TO THE JEWS SOMEDAY! ETC. THIS DESTROYS DISPENSATIONALISM HERICIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As much as it’s “super enlightening” to Ps Tanner, it is “super illuminating and inspiring” for me to weigh further into my theology of these two positions. Good concise and honest opinion of Ps Tanner!
Great, greystone! I’m glad you were helped by the content. God bless!
Fantastic breakdown! Thank you
Glad you enjoyed! Take care.
This was really good!
Thanks, Gabriel! God bless. :)
This video is amazing thnks tanner im definitely gonna order that book and save this video 🙏🙏❤️❤️
Enjoy! God bless.
@@PastorTanner blessing to you as well I. Jesus name 🙏
As a dispensationalist (but not in the mainstream sense), I very much enjoyed your clear and fair explanations of each position. Thank you for an excellent and well done video.
Thanks, clayton! I believe that all of the positions have something to offer. God bless!
Really I got more confused over the topic. Got reneged in the topic after Mohlers recent review. And found this video thought it might give me nuggets to pounder. I’m really not sure he did any of the positions justice. As a dispensationalist myself I would not find my self in agreement with the progressive dispys at all. His line was linear and had me further away from reformed covenant which if I could not hold to dispensationalism I’d be covenant. But not paedobastist
This is helpful. TY
Applying for a youth pastor job and they asked in their questioniare, "Would you consider yourself dispensational in your approach to the Scriptures..." This video may have got me a job!! LOL Seriously though, fantastic handling of the issue. Thank you so much for posting
Awesome, Jake! Thanks for the feedback, and I hope you get the job! God bless. :)
Well done Brother.
Thank you! Much love.
Excellent video 🙏👍
Thank you 👍
After 48 years of biblical research, I still feel dispensationalism is the better view. Chafer/ Geisler/ Ryrie / Walvoord are great authors to read. Blessings to covenant theologians as well since we are all part of the body of Christ. ✝️👍❤️
I'll stick with the Puritans 👍
Very nice perspectives here, Randy. We are all seeking to learn diligently.
@@toolegittoquit_001 Also good. :)
I'll stick with historic theology
I'll stick with the Scriptures, as Sola Scriptura states...
Ok I am more to the left but ask is there a distinction between the eschatological aspect and the soteriological aspect of National vs Spiritual Israel. I have strongly left dispensationalism but if I make a promise to you, can I later reapply it to Larry? Each view asks questions and has weaknesses to their positions.
I agree, Richard. This is part of why this topic is so difficult for us to navigate as Christians. Best to hold to our positions tentatively in my opinion.
I appreciate your even handed approach to a very difficult topic. I land towards the middle of this spectrum but lean towards dispensation lism, Because the text itself needs to interpret itself. Augustine is the one who started us on the idea of spiritualizing the text, and that always leads to trouble. God's word should speak for itself. But traditional dispensationalism Leads to many problems especially when it comes to the end times. All I can tell the viewers is to study for themselves. And do not just depend on what your pastor tells you.
Quite a reasonable approach, Brian. Thanks for sharing.
Very helpful!
Thank you, Thomas! God bless.
Great presentation; All that you speak of is very important; I didn’t know about either Covenant Theology or Dispensationalism; Over the last decade I have spent much time studying Scripture from beginning to end and have landed pretty solidly in the dispensationalist camp; I came upon a very interesting study that will take me a long time but, is well worth the effort:
Beyond Calvinism and Arminianism: An Inductive Mediate Theology of Salvation
Book by C. Gordon Olson
Thanks for your thoughts, Megan. I was not aware of this resource, I appreciate you bringing it to my attention.
I have recently been introduced into this world of all the various theologies. I truly find that I can see each point but cannot say I agree that any are an absolute.
I don't think that is a bad place to be. I think all of us could use a little more humility in our theological pursuits.
A separate line of enquiry: predestination, and the extent to which each view buys into that.
The Mosaic covenant is described in Gal 3 - a temporary addendum to reveal sin.
Yes, Galatians 3 is a very important passage on this subject. Thanks for sharing.
Excellent breakdown, Tanner. Well done! I found myself bouncing from one side of your chart to the other, never finding a solid spot. I affirm Biblical Theology over Systematic, but I'm confident God is not done with Israel. I better get back to my studies.
Thanks for the encouragement - God bless you in your studies!
I’m afraid I’ve fallen off the right side of the scale. I’m one of those Mid-Acts Dispensationalists.
The apostles preached the same gospel, the apostle Paul explicitly states this.
Thank you
I adhere to the Westminster confession of faith because I being a presby believe in the covenant theology.
Yes, traditional Covenant Theology is largely a Presbyterian doctrine.
@@PastorTanner i have to be because i whole heartily believe in the eternal covenant between the father and the son. I dont believe periods of time that God decided to work in. Adam Abram Noah David and so on yeah were promises he made to his people. Therefore had a relationship with them.
besides didnt Jesus out of his own mouth say that God so loved the world
I also would highly recommend the 4-views book. Clarified a lot of things for me. Snoeberger (the guy who represents the Trad Disp position) is my ST professor. Great man! Though I don’t agree with him on everything I think he represents Dispensationalism well.
Awesome! Thanks for the recommendation.
The method of one’s hermeneutic will determine one’s argumentation of what the text means
I’m also Progressive covenantal, but I also think we need to bring in more of the old an New Testament understanding of ancient symbolism into our hermeneutics
Israel is the church which is the ecclesia, and this is comprised of both Jewish and former Gentile believers being born into the body of Christ as they were in the book of Acts, and in keeping the commandments as both the prophets and the apostles did. So where does this belief stand in this?
I appreciate your work and excellent presentation. Thank you! It seems to me this continuum of thought could be attributed to Greek minds attempting to fully understand the mind of God. I'm not sure if that's a profitable adventure for man's intellect or new life in Christ. Godspeed and continued blessings in your life.
I like this comment a lot, Totem. I appreciate very much Iain Mcgilchrist's work on hemispheric lateralization in the brain. Your phrase 'Greek minds' maps roughly onto his 'left hemisphere' and I think your comment is spot on. We are limited and finite creatures and ought to embrace a certain level of humility.
yes it seemed like greek to me too.😮
@@ken440 Hopefully this helped a little! God bless.
Great graph, but did you have to put the smart guys on the left? It seems so... backwards.
Hah! It was entirely arbitrary random selection.
"The Fatal Flaw of the theology behind infant baptism" by Jeffery D. Johnson. A good place to start investigating Reformed Baptist Covenant theology.
Thanks for the recommendation, Ceedee.
What could I read to understand the reformed Baptist 1689 stance?
I think the actual confession itself is probably your best bet. That is like a summarized systematic theology. 1689 London Baptist Confession.
Tanner, have you ever heard Michael Vlach's position on the subject of covenant theology vs Dispensational theology. And it was pretty easy to tell what position you held to when you were describing both positions. Was easy to tell the way you were describing Dispensationalism that you are more on the side of covenant theology. :)
Thanks, Frank. I do my best to be objective, but I guess no one is perfect. I have actually attended a breakout session taught by Vlach and I found him quite persuasive. I WILL say that progressive covenentalism is quite different from traditional covenant theology. You might give Wellum and Gentry's Kingdom Through Covenant a look. God bless.
-tanner
@PastorTanner thanks for your response I appreciate it. I've been saved for just over 7 years and the position I take is identical to Michael Vlach but I'm glad as a covenant guy you at least didn't try to persuade anyone to take your view as alot of covenant guys do. It was kinda refreshing to see someone who wasn't so dogmatic about their view being exclusively the one to take. Oh and just an FYI. It's pernounced Franky people usually see my son on my profile and between the name and profile pic, assume I am a man. Last but not least if you'd like to see my testimony you can find it under Justin peters ministries (Franke Preston's baptism)
@@frankepreston7761 That's great Franke, thanks for sharing. I hope to checkout your testimony when I get a chance. Take care.
-tanner
Good video. I will say that books are not needed, pray, read your Bible, pray, read your Bible, pray. It is very clear.
It is definitely important to read, pray, and listen to the Spirit. However, some of us who are less mature at discerning the Spirit can be helped by books to reorient ourselves while we grow. Thanks for your thoughts. 👍
God gave us a church and pastors...
This is a very clear and interesting video. What does Covenantal Theology do with Ezekiel 36 and Psalm 102?
Thanks, Callie. Covenant Theology tends to move in the direction of spiritualizing these texts. Ezekiel 36's New heart becomes the new birth and regeneration spoken of by Christ in John 3.
@@PastorTanner Thank you for replying. I thought that must be the position. We're Messianic in Israel and we believe this to be in the process of literal fulfillment, as the people of Israel are returning to the nation of Israel, unlike other times in history where the return was predicated by repentance. A revival among the Jewish people started in the late 1960's and if you hear their testimonies, it coincided with the reunification of Jerusalem. What does Covenant Theology do with a literal Israel being formed out of the ashes of the Holocaust (per Psalm 102), after nearly 2000 years of dispersion? Is this just not of consequence or interest? (I understand that their framework spiritualizes the passages but what about when the passages look like something that has happened in history? What do they do with the history? I hope my question makes sense.)
@@callienn Yes, it is a good question. While some Covenant Theologians would make room for this historical development being an aspect of prophecy, many others would simply see this as coincidental. I believe I have heard covenant theologians before say something along the lines of 'the Israel that currently occupies the land isn't the same as the Israel of the Old Testament."
@@PastorTanner I appreciate how you are able to speak to these differences so objectively. That's what makes this video so strong. To the second response, wow, their DNA tests and genealogies clearly prove otherwise, so that's really not a factual or truthful position to hold. Genetically the Jewish people are the people of ancient Israel. For the other position, how does an act of history at this scale, considered as a coincidence of history, fit consistently with the strong Covenantal teachings on God's sovereignty?
After watching your video, I'd like do some content on what where Messianic Theology is on this spectrum, so I guess I'll need to start a youtube channel 😆. It shares likeness and differences to both Covenantal Theology (following a historical redemption narrative through the whole of scripture) and Dispensationalism (retaining the place of Israel in God's plan). One of the differences with both is that it follows God's story through the Covenants that are established in scripture, rather than an interpretive covenant system, or dividing bible history into various ages. In function I think it's actually more like Covenant Theology but the place of Israel in God's plan is always going to press the Messianic community more towards dispensationalism. Its really amazing actually, but since we only have a handful of trained Messianic Theologians, its hard to get a hold of scholarly material about this perspective.
@@callienn Yes, that would be a very interesting project, Callie. I will say that I am also interested in reading Wellum and Gentry's 'Kingdom Through Covenant.' I believe that it is a more organic take on the Covenant Theology idea. So much to read and so little time!
Renald Showers book "There is a difference" addresses the differences as well. He's with the Lord now but he still has some lectures on YT.
I was not aware of him. Thanks for the heads-up.
Very elucidative. I'm not sure where I stand, pastor, but when I think of what the people of God went through in Exodus ( the red sea, the water, etc) I think that their eyes will still open for God one day. The LORD promissed a great deal of Land that wasn't acquired, much the opposite, the enemies took their land. I believe Israel (and here I'm giving value to the Earth Israel because God always amazes us in a Time that is not ours and takes forever for us, but He knows what He does.
Actually, when I think about what the Bible says on tribulation (that it is going to be the period of most suffering that there ever was), I stick with the idea that the LORD from the beginning of Israel had minimizying their suffering in His heart...since they are/will be in the center of the turmoil talking about a period that has not started yet, but that He addressed from the very beginning.
Thanks for your thoughts. This perspective is more in line with the dispensational approach.
Something in this video at minute 5:07 is very important that we define. What are the last days and end times; not defined by 20th century Christians but defined by the Bible?
Good question, Jeremy. I feel that this is important to answer.
In discussing the topic of Hermeneutics as related to Eschatology I've frequently found Dispensationalists to be wildly inconsistent with the "literal" hermeneutic. I couldn't tell you how many times I've been chastised for "spiritualizing" the text when I point out that the author (most often the Apostle Paul) is "spiritualizing" the text. It seems to me that the Dispensational viewpoint does not define "literal" in a literal sense. How many definitions of literal are there?
This is actually a primary point of contention within the various groups. The definition of 'literal' is pretty murky.
This was very interesting and informative. I have seen a few videos of people taking one view or the other, but never really defining either. So, the spectrum was helpful. However, important facts are ignored by those of both extremes.
For example, you brought up Hebrews 8. Verses 1 through 7 are discussing the Messiah as the High Priest who is better qualified for the office than any human before Him. The word 'covenant' has been inserted in verse 7, but it is not there in ancient texts. That contributes to the errant interpretation. Verse 8 says 'they' had a fault, not 'it.' The men of the priesthood were subject to human weakness. 'They' had faults, not the covenant.
In verse 8, we see a reference to Jeremiah 31:31. It says, "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord." Notice that it was NOT a failure of the covenant. It was a failure of the people. They did not continue. They chose to not obey.
What modern Christianity conveniently ignores in that passage is that there are NO Gentiles mentioned in that new covenant. When it comes to Torah observance, Christians always say, "that was only for Israel." Well, this passage specifcally mentions Israel and Judah, and does NOT mention any Gentiles. Yet, Christians claim it for themselves. I notice Christians are big on Old Testament blessings, but not so interested in the instructions that secure those blessings. But, I digress. One either joins Israel as the people of YHVH, or they remain pagans.
Ephesians 2:11-22 says that the Messiah has taken people who were once called strangers (Gentiles) and turned them into fellow citizens (Israelis) so that there would be only ONE Body of the Messiah. The dogma of humans has been abolished. All people can now enjoy the promises made to Israel. Without joining them we cannot claim those promises or their Messiah. That's not how it works. Israel is the people who belong to YHVH. The 'nations' have other gods. Israel was the Bride of the Messiah for more than 1,000 years before Jesus showed up.
Jesus said 'workers of iniquity,' or 'workers without the Torah,' who do works in His Name are the ones He doesn't know. They use His Name, but they do not obey His Father's instructions. Instead, they rename pagan feasts and claim they are about Jesus. That is exactly what Jesus' Father said NOT to do. That is why Jesus doesn't know them. He cannot be intimate with people who rebel against His Father.
Revelation 18:1-6 Who is being called out of Babylon? Who is being told in the end of days to not partake of her sins? Who is being warned that her judgment has come? The answer to all those questions is "my people." YHVH is saying that his people are partaking in the sins of Babylon, and they too will be destroyed if they choose to not escape.
Interesting perspective here. Thanks for sharing.
@@PastorTanner Thanks. We have had 1,800 years of doctrinal dominance from an organization whose pagan roots cannot be denied. Rome hated the Jews. But, a Jewish god became the most popular. 'What should we do?'
The choices were 'co-opt the new god,' or 'continue persecution in an effort to wipe them out.'
Rome chose the former and became the unimpeachable authority of the religion they had failed to stop. They wrote a history that no one was allowed to question.
Now, here we are, a dying and powerless church with zero depth of understanding about who Messiah is. Modern Christianity is the result of the spirit of antichrist that was working from the start.
9:05: Nestle Aland text, why aren't you using the Textus Receptus?
Cause NA is the first one that came up.
@@PastorTanner fair enough 🤣 I enjoyed your video BTW!
Thanks, mvaller. Take care!
ALSO, it IS NOT WhERE DO WE FALL INTO THESE DEFINITIONS, BUT WHAT DOES THE WORD ACTUALLY SAY and we then follow that.
This assumes the word is exhaustively clear on all topics, which it is not.
Question, what's the difference between Reformed Baptist Covenant Theology and New Covenant Theology?
I go to a church that considers themselves reformed Baptist but teach New Covenant theology.
These are different (as you have hinted.) I cannot summarize the differences here, but Reformed Baptist Covenant Theology has been around a long time (search Nehemiah Coxe.)
Here is an example: cbtseminary.org/the-federal-theology-of-nehemiah-coxe-intro/
New Covenant Theology is a relatively recent phenomena. Many Reformed Baptist Covenant Theologians of the older variety are NOT happy with New Covenant Theology or Progressive Covenentalism.
This video should help you start sorting through this mess: ruclips.net/video/_Uq_S3-HjRo/видео.html
Good luck.
-tanner
@@PastorTanner And here I assumed this new covenant theology I hold dear was the historical position. Doesn't mean it isn't right but I have a lot of studying to do to have a clear mind about it. I also need to talk to my elders to considering we have the Westminster confession of faith as our confession yet we're very big on typology and shadows in the old testament. I also don't think we fully reject the moral law.
My brain already hurts but thank you very much for sending me down this rabbit hole.
@@intothekey Yes, it is a mess. As a Reformed Baptist who attends a Presbyterian Seminary, I was already confused about it. It wasn't until digging deeper that I realized that all of these other positions exist. As I mentioned in the video, a lot of these positions amount to 'baptist infighting.'
FWIW I think that typology and OT shadows are a key for the future for the church. That doesn't necessarily make for a good historical case, however.
As far as "spiritualizing" the Old Testament promises, take a look at how the New Testament writers interpret the OT scriptures and see if they interpret them "historically" or "spiritually." Examples Acts 2:16-39, Hebrews 4 (especially 4:3).
Yes, Scripture interpreting scripture is generally a good rule of thumb. 👍
For a thorough perspective and teaching of baptist covenant theology read "Covenant Theology from Adam to Christ" by Nehamiah Coxe. It also has John Owen's exposition of Hebrews 8:8-12.
It will answer alot of the questions you posed at the end of your video
Very good recommendation - Thank you, Storm!
The bigger question that nobody is asking: who are the people that possess the land nation of Israel?
Are these real jews or are the like Jesus called in Revelation, those who call themselves Jews but are of Satan?
A historical deep dive of who Jesus is referring to in Revelation 2 plays heavily into deciding where you are on this scale.
Thanks for these thoughts, I think they will be helpful for people trying to zero in on the critical issues.
I grew up amongst Darbyite Brethren and typology was very strong, whereas authorial intent was almost of no consequence. There was a very strong reaction against sectarianism. One body on earth and one head in heaven. Though Catholicism was rejected, their baptism was fully accepted. Household baptism was practiced widely but was not a rule.
I’m not familiar with Darbyite Brethren. This was very eye-opening. Thank you, Gregory. Take care.
Great vid. Thanks. Question. Im sure you would agree that in 70AD God judged Israel and scattered them. Is it not inconsistent to say their regathering is unrelated to God's plan? If God did not regather them, then who did?
Does Jesus not say "you will fall by the sword and be taken captive into all the nations UNTIL THE TIME OF THE GENTILES IS COMPLETE". Does Paul not say "Do not be ignorant of the mystery lest you take these promises for yourself, Israel has received a hardening of heart UNTIL THE TIME OF THE GENTILES IS COMPLETE".
Thanks. If I am reading you correctly, you are advancing a Preterist interpretation of some of these passages. However, it seems that you are sensitive to a Dispensationalist perspective regarding Israel. I think trying to ‘both/and’ this issue could definitely shed some light on the Scriptures. Thanks for sharing.
Paul solves this problem in Hebrews 11.
I see Hebrews 8 as being instrumental on this issue. Thanks for your comment, George.
-tanner
Why was this framed as “do you like- then this is for you”? Why isn’t this framed as “what does the Bible teach clearly”? How is this a dispensational view and not simply a sola scriptural view?
There are a couple of ways of answering this question. First and foremost is the fact that these viewpoints do not represent doctrinal positions derived exclusively from the text but rather interpretive grids that are used to interpret the text itself. As such, the answer cannot simply be derived from the question 'what does the Bible teach' but rather must be arrived at by asking 'which position most accords with the Bible's teaching and makes the most sense of a biblical worldview as I understand it?'
The follow-up response results from a careful examination of the last question. We all approach the interpretive question with our own 'grid' or framework of understanding. I find it much easier to teach somebody where they are currently at ('you are here') so that they can examine the landscape from a standpoint of understanding than it is to teach somebody the entire landscape with no reference point.
Think of this video as a preliminary video that can guide someone into a further and more thoughtful examination of the topic for themselves.
Please do a refutation of mid-acts Pauline Dispensationalism. Justin Johnson is a prominent figure in this sect. Interested in your thoughts on it! Thanks!
Grace Ambassadors is his channel
I’ve not heard of this. I’ll have to check it out.
@@PastorTanner it’s on the fringes of orthodoxy. Goes beyond classical Dispensationalism and says the church starts in the middle of Acts soon after Paul is saved and commissioned to go to the gentiles.
Been trying to talk my Father in law out of it but since there are isn’t a lot of attention around it, not much scholarship opposing it to read. I’d be interested to hear your take on it.
@@Whatsittuya407 interesting, I’ve never heard of such a thing. It would be interesting to come across it.
I want to start out, by thanking you for your time and clarity in explaining this. However, I believe Our Lord hates all of this (there’s waaay too much in-fighting). Obedience of HIS Word isn’t meant to have a beginning or end. And trying to nail down an infinite beings infinite message is, ultimately futile, anyways so. I understand the rationale, behind it all, this video is well-done and very useful…just my thoughts. God Bless You All In Jesus Name.
I really appreciate your comment, JMike. It is hard to recognize where good discussion ends and straining out gnats begins. Hopefully we all improve in discernment going forward.
✅ interesting video
Thanks, star!
If you want to know if the book of Revelation is linear or cyclical, decide what happens in a story when the author says "and then" before and after events....
Helpful idea, Dennis. Thanks.
Almost everyone missed that Romans 2 deals with Jews while Romans 9-11 is about the House of Israel and the two are not the same. Dah.
Very interesting take, E Dean. Thanks for sharing.
This is all over my head
I know, Mark. It can be a complicated topic, especially as I seek to summarize it, there is a lot of assumed knowledge here. Apologies.
@@PastorTanner not your fault Gbu
Its not over your head.. its simply splitting hairs that are not Bible based. Dispensationalism is NOT Biblical.
Covenant theologians read the text literate-ly; that is, we read literally unless the genre is poetic/apocalyptic/symbolic, etc.
Nice summary statement, Shara.
My question on baptism is: If it’s the “baptism of repentance” then how would it apply to infants?
Note: I see Jesus “repenting” (God is noted in the Old Testament for repenting from judgment, not sin) from his earthly family and going into his full ministry after his baptism. From there he refers to his earthly mother, Mary, as “woman” not mother.
@@clayman2216 Interesting question! The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is that they might say the baptism of repentance is John's baptism, whereas Christian baptism is different. Not sure if they would respond this way or not. Thanks for sharing.
And once again God reminded me that He made an eternal covenant with His people Israel. This time, God reminded me as I read the birth accounts of John the Baptist and Jesus in Luke where Zechariah, John's father, while filled with the Holy Spirit , made this declaration...
" To show mercy to our fathers and to REMEMBER HIS HOLY COVENANT, the OATH He swore to our father Abraham..." Luke 1:72-73 .
What covenant would that be?
" On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abraham and said, " To your descendants I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates..." Genesis 15:18.
No one can deny that that part of Dispensationalism is TRUE....and that Covenantalism has it wrong, ...Israel is not the Church.
Thanks for sharing your perspective, Mark. I appreciate it. 👍
Good job. Some regular folks go to church all their lives, yet don't know about topics such as dispensationalism, gap theory, etc. I was one of them. I came across these topics only a month ago. They are fascinating. I'd say I fall in the dispensationalism camp and believe in the gap theory, and KJV is the way to go. Dr. Gene Kim is a hardcore dispensationalist who's opened my eyes.
Thanks for your feedback and thoughts. There is certainly a strong contingency that holds to the distinctives that you’ve outlined. God bless.
-tanner
If God is done with the Kingdom of Israel why when the disciples asked Jesus in Acts 1:6-7 , “Lord, are you restoring the Kingdom of Israel at this time? He said to them “ It’s is not for you to know the times or seasons that the Father has set by his own authority “ if the Kingdom of Israel was done why would Jesus not say no Gods not going to restore Israel that was the previous covenant? Also if God is done with Israel why is throne called David’s throne? Why is our future home called the New Jerusalem? This is why I don’t think God is done with Israel.
Thanks for sharing some thoughts on this subject, Jeff.
Everyone is a dispensationalist and a covenant believer . The old and new testaments are two different dispensations and old and new testaments(covenants)
Good thoughts here, Pug. Thanks!
If I may ask, has Christianity become boufet-style?
I suppose you are referring to the fact that I seek to indicate which position people may ‘resonate’ with. I find that a first step in changing one’s mind on an issue is to first ‘get the lay of the land’ so to speak. If you can figure out where you are naturally inclined AND understand what the available options are, then you are best poised to adjust.
That’s how I see it anyway. Take care.
Based on the chart you used on the Israel/Church Relationship - I am a Dispensationalist. I keep coming back to the fact that my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is Jewish and that according to Romans 11:11-24 God is NOT done with Israel: 1) "Have they (Israel) stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not!" 2) v17 ... "Some of the branches were broken off and you being a wild olive tree were grafted in among them". 3) For Romans 9:6b, "For they are not all Israel who are of Israel". Jews (Israel) aren't saved because they are Jewish (just like not all Americans are Christians; not all people who go to church are saved). Before the Cross, Jews are saved only when they believe in the Promises of God (OT) (Abraham). And after the Cross, that Jesus Christ is their Messiah (NT).
NOT trying to convince anyone to agree with me ... just a quick synopsis of why I am a Dispensationalist.
@PastorTanner ... you did an excellent job as always! Keep these videos coming!
I believe one of the problems with the modern Church is that most people do not know what they believe. Ask most "Christians" what the Gospel is, and they can't tell you what the Bible says (it doesn't matter what anything else says it is!). They give some incoherent explanation. For something as important as ones Eternal future and knowing who the Bible says Jesus Christ is - you'd like to think "Christians" would know at least these two things!!!
Well thought out ideas and response here. Thanks, Darren. God bless!
God's earthly kingdom program has been shut down in the dispensation of grace. We are in the 'mystery' program. There has been a divine interruption in the prophetic program and anything going on in Israel is not significant. The resumption of the earthly kingdom program begins AFTER the Rapture. Gentiles will never be 'grafted in' the grafted in ones are unbelieving Jews, grafted in with believing Jews. The Ashkenazi people are not descendants of Shem, they are descendants of Japheth.
Revelation 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
"Do you believe strongly in an original literalist hermeneutic?
Do you believe that we should take the scriptures how they read at face value, and just read them as literally as possible then dispensationalism is probably right for you.
There's a very strong focus on authorial intent when it comes to dispensationalism, and that comes through very, very strongly."
That is the only way to read the Bible.
Thanks, Tom. Sounds like dispensationalism is right for you. 👍
I was told that Dispensational theology had to only do with eschatology. Not salvation, justification, baptism, etc. 🤷♂️
This is a common understanding, Citizen. While the primary point of application for dispensationalism is indeed eschatology, it also has implications for many other areas of doctrine.
What must I do to be saved? I don't have time to learn all this stuff. Much learning, destroys the basic man.
JD Frage would say "know your ABCs of Salvation",
Accept Christ as your Savior,
Believe in the finished work at the cross, ( Jesus death, burial and resurrection)
Call upon the name of the Lord when in need.
that is it,, check out the real gospel at 1 Corrinthians 15 v 1-4
no other knowledge or action needed , you are Saved and Heaven Bound
What? No repentance!@@alnorman4802
Acts 2:38, it is very clear.
Its becoming apparent that there is ignorance surrounding the dispensation of Grace.
Thanks for your thoughts, bop-ya.
Okay, I haven't listened to any of the video, but by looking at you I'm guessing you're on the Reformed side. See if I'm right. A bow tie would have sealed if for me.
Haha! I love it.
I probably err on the side of a literal reading of Jeremiah 31, in which the NC is cut with the Jewish ppl.
Gotcha. Thanks for your clear stance, Cameron.
People would do well to study Eastern "Greek" Theology, Soteriology and the inescapably related views of the nature of the Covenant and Eschatology too... Remembering that it was through the first Ecumenical Councils that God guided His People through the disputes of the time and solidified certain doctrinal "boundaries". The East, subsequently, has zero time for novel Dispensationalism etc. ✌️
Thanks for your thoughts, Emile. Where should people get started? What are your thoughts on Syriac translations of the NT?
@@PastorTanner To be honest, I've not looked into that particular area of the Canon : )
Though I'm not Orthodox, I am greatly nourished by Eastern Orthodoxy and the Eastern and Coptic consensus regarding the nature of Sovereignty, Providence, Free will, and the degree of human Depravity.
It's true to say, that it's a bit of a shock to many Western Christians (particularly Reformed / Calvinists) to discover the complete absence of Augustinianism within these traditions: his personally formulated views regarding Determinism / Predestination, Election etc. that is... (but not disregarding his other impressive and influential contributions to the Christian world!)
What I've found, is that the East holds to a very high view of Sovereignty and human responsibility - but without either (as we would see it) resorting to exhaustive divine determinism on the one hand, or the reformed "compatibalism" on the other - which are seen as heretical, or incoherent and unnecessary at best in the East. The result is that Orthodoxy (I am persuaded) maintains the early Church - first 350 years - Pre Augustinian view of free will and sovereignty, and therefore, the doctrine of "Synergy" to this day, which is labeled "semi-Pelagian" by many in the West... though I think absolutely wrongly (it simply just doesn't fit Augustine's imported philosophical presuppositions at these points)
As I said, I'm not trying to convert anyone to Orthodoxy. I'm not even Orthodox myself; but I would recommend "The Orthodox Church" - by Timothy Ware - for a general overview of Eastern Theology and Christology and the history of the Communion. Also "Orthodox Spirituality" - by a monk of the Eastern Church - is fantastic if you want to get more technical (but beautifully written! And with the added bonus of the absence of unnecessarily pitting "East against West" also!)
The writings of the Cappadocian Fathers, plus Maximus the Confessor and John of Damascus also! - These writers show the Cosmic scale of Christ's Incarnation and Redemption, and therefore the true nature of the Atonement and Covenant - which go hand in hand with the pronouncements of the first 6 Ecumenical Councils (Christology / and therefore, Human Anthropology) that were held in the East where both Eastern and Western Christendom thrashed out these issues. Anyone can see that throughout this stream of tradition in the east, it has not shifted in its view of human freedom and divine freedom, and what God predetermines and what He "passively" permits.
Forgive me for the essay! Keep up the good work! ✌️🙏
@@emilesturt3377 Great thoughts, Emile. Thanks. What do you make of icon veneration? I find this to be a big hang-up for most protestants.
@@PastorTanner Well, to me it's not an essential part of Christian life (as the seventh Ecumenical Council pronounced), but understood rightly, and used rightly, it can be an enriching part of Christian worship and piety.
The making of images / art / creativity is so inherent to being Human, and we are in a world surrounded by unholy images - channels of, and sometimes indwelt by, demonic energy... everywhere... And oh! How we reverence them!
I find that icons that have been "written" through prayer and fasting and set apart for the Kingdom through prayer and for prayer, can be very inspiring and an aid to growth in holiness.
The teaching is clear that the veneration passes to the Prototype in the same way that when you pick up a photo of a loved one and kiss the photo, or if you bow to a war memorial or to another person you're not worshiping the created, or matter, you're reverencing what it represents, what is "behind" it.
Anyway, I have icons around my house but I don't really use them as an Orthodox wood, sorry, would haha.... but when I attend Orthodox Liturgy (very occasionally) here in the UK, I have no problems with bowing my head or kissing them. I can totally appreciate why people don't like it (I'm also part of a non-conformist evangelical church at times), but to me it is possibly a FAR less erroneous teaching, than say, "the secret Rapture" or (and I'm sorry to tread on any toes here) God choosing some (individuals) for heaven, (and not others) before the Foundation of the world.
The seven Ecumenical Councils also round it off nicely: the first one in Nicea linked to the relationship between the Father and the Son - who is the icon of God. And of course the seventh Council (Nicea 2) was partly to do with icons and how that relates to us as created in the image of God the Creator - Who became matter in order to save it ALL through the Uncreated Energy within Christ - the God-Man
Another essay 😩😱😂😂✌️
@emilesturt3377 Thanks for all of your time and thoughtful replies. ❤
Hey I just found you. Are you reformed?
Yes, indeed!
@@PastorTanner thanks! I listened to a few more of your videos lol and found out Reformed Baptist. Not a theonomist though correct? What are your views on Moscow ID?
@@strykerdawn1 Big fan of Doug Wilson and Canon Press. Obviously I have my disagreements with them, but I really like their content.
The righteous shall never be removed but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth Prov 10.30! Ps 37 : 9-11
Good verses, Sheppard. Appreciate your thoughts.
A great overview, but it becomes obvious that they are all missing the point. Thats why new covenant theology is the most logical, biblical and true. Im surprised that it doesn’t get more air time.
Thanks for sharing, Ralph. New Covenant Theology is indeed a very intriguing approach.
@@PastorTanner Thank you. And the reason I say this, is because NCT in its very heart places Jesus Christ as the centre and purpose of God in a kind of promise and substance / fulfilment relationship in old / new covenants. Covenant theology in all of its forms presupposes a “Covenant of Grace” (not even mentioned in the Bible anywhere) as the overarching basis of interpreting the scripture, whilst Dispensationalism, on the other hand, makes Israel and a kind of naturalistic interpretation, with the Cross (in its classical form) as an afterthought or “plan B” in the purposes of God. Because Jesus Christ is the very centre, both the beginning and the end of Gods eternal purpose, I go 100% with New Covenant Theology. Thanks for your kind reply.
@@RalphCullenThanks for the clarification, Ralph. God bless.
Is there danger in interpreting scripture in a generally literal way? After all, we read most literature in a literal way unless the metaphorical or typical is relatively obvious in the intent of the author. Why should we read the Bible differently? Also, is it not safer to interpret in a literal sense? You would not read your car manual in anything other than a literal sense. To read it otherwise would be very dangerous indeed. Here is another thought. OT books like Zechariah become meaningless unless read literally. In covenant theology, 10 men will never take hold of the coat of a Jew and say let us go up to Jerusalem to celebrate the feast of tabernacles because we know that the Lord is with you. So, why did YHWH give this specific prophecy to Zechariah? Why did He give him the whole prophecy? I will tell you why I am a dispensationalist. It is because of the feasts of YHWH. They are dispensational. Israel's timeline begins with the passover and ends with the feast of tabernacles. Until I see those 10 gentiles attached to one who is of national Israel headed to Jerusalem for the feast of tabernacles in the millennial kingdom, I know that God is not finished with Israel.
Thanks for your very thoughtful response, Robert. I confess I have not studied the feasts to the depth I would desire. I suspect they would give me some good thinking. Thanks. 👍
@@PastorTanner I grew up in the Plymouth Brethren and the Bible studies were deep and intense (not just eschatology). The OT is reviewed constantly and intently. Also, as you probably already know, the feasts are very prominent in John's gospel where they take on the moniker of "the feasts of the Jews". I get the sense that John is telling us something when he talks of the feasts in that objective manner. It would an argument from silence or at best inference but I think that he is telling us something about the gifts and calling of God being irrevocable. Thank you for your feedback as well. May the Lord bless you as you await along with me the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.
@@Saratogan Very cool background. Thanks for sharing.
Covenant theology hinges on the Greek word καί. Which if you interpret it the way covenant theology replacement theology or reformed theology you get a completely different meaning of Israel which would make the Old Testament completely wrong.
Thanks for your thoughts, Brad. Is there a specific verse where this kai translation makes the biggest difference?
@@PastorTanner Galatians 6:16 look up the video “did God replace Israel” Dr David Mishkin. The word determines what Paul means by the Israel of God.
@bradwhitt6768 Except that the issue does not hinge on a single verse as you suppose (it is only strengthened by that verse), because the apostles apply Scriptures that spoke of Israel in the old testament not only to Christ but to the church, which would make sense, since at one time only one man was called Israel, then an entire nation from him.
One example of this, from which springs more examples:
1 Peter 2:9-10 [NKJV]
But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.
Exodus 19:5-6 [BST]
And now if ye will indeed hear my voice, and keep my covenant, ye shall be to me a peculiar people above all nations; for the whole earth is mine. And ye shall be to me a royal priesthood and a holy nation: these words shalt thou speak to the children of Israel.
- Here the apostle Peter applies Scripture concerning Israel to believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, which is the church.
@@matthewsouthwell3500 you're right it's multiple verses that if you believe in fulfillment/replacement theology makes all the Old Testament make 0 sense. You have to allagorize almost all prophecy and a good chunk of the Old Testament.
@@bradwhitt6768 Which in no way responds to the example given above, and the use of the old testament passage concerning Israel being applied to believers in Christ Jesus, the church. Your problem with allegory does not seem to be something that the apostles or even the prophets and writers of the old testament share. The return from Babylon was literal in the sense most dispensationalists insist upon, and yet often seems overlooked in dispensationalism, along with the concept of the remnant. Another prophecy that is overlooked is the (re)gathering that is spoken of in John 11:49-52.
I'm a theonomist. I take the land promise seriously and I see that Gal 3:16 states that ALL of the promises given to Abraham were bestowed on Christ in particular as heir, NOT the Jews in general. From the Parable of the Wicked Husbandment, the Cursing of the Fig Tree, the broken branches, the blood curse, Romans 2:28-29, Gal 3:28 - 29, the New Testament is clear - national Israel was destroyed and Christ instituted a New Covenant with the gentile nations. Christ, as heir to all of the promises is True Israel and the church are co-heirs in Christ.
Thanks for your thoughts, rms. Very helpful to see this perspective defended.
@@PastorTanner it seems the America evangelical church has nearly completely apostatized between dispensationalism, zionism and "radical two kingdoms" theology. The former cause Christians to disengage from the world in anticipation of the rapture and the latter teaches there is no reason to impose Christian standards upon the world. At this rate its all going to have to be burned to the ground and rebuilt.
If you read 'The Hope of Israel' by Phillip Mauro, 1929, you will understand that correct biblical interpretation is not "Literal" interpretation (dispensationalists) vs "Spiritual" interpretation (Amil)
You will understand that the biblical dichotomy is that in the bible first, there were Earthly/Natural fulfillments
THEN, Heavenly/Spiritual fulfillments (in Christ) BOTH Literal!
Understanding this causes dispensationalism to collapse.
Thanks for this recommendation, roly, I hadn’t heard of it before.
-tanner
Covenant theology is just dispensationalism with less dispensations. Every historical/theological scheme has dispensations or covenants or whatever.
There are certainly more similarities between the systems than you might guess at first blush.
O.T. believers died and went to the pleasant side of sheol and stayed there until Jesus died and let them out to follow him to heaven.
Believers since Christ's resurrection go straight to heaven when they die.
O.T. believers were guided by the Holy Spirit, but they were not indwelled by him. Believers since Christ's resurrection are indwelled by the Holy Spirit.
Those are both major differences. So major that they illustrate different dispensations.
God threatened to cut off Israel for rebelliousness, but he also said that he was Israel's husband, and he hates divorce. He will honor his promises to Israel. God has never considered non-believing Jews to be an integral part of Israel, but many non-believing Jews play a role in keeping Israel alive from generation to generation. When Jesus returns, God will convert many non-believing Jews into believers when they see him coming down from heaven. They will populate the millennium along with non-Jews who God will also convert at his return.
God is following his plan to demonstrate his glory, and man's depravity. The different dispensations are like different scientific experiments to see how mold grows on different foods. Mankind ends up rebelling in every experiment, and that highlights God's mercy on us.
Thanks for sharing your view, Deezy. It is very enlightening. I would argue that a decent chunk of this is compatible with certain forms of progressive covenantalism as well. 👍
Only someone with a Degree could make the Bible seem so complicated and difficult to understand.
Thanks Lori, we do our best.
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Covenant Theology came out of Paedobaptism, not the other way around… 🙏 Really helpful overview of the positions. Clear and concise without straw-manning any of them. Thanks! 😎👍
Thanks for the clarification. 👍
I'll love to hear the explanation
Great video until about minute 10 when his position becomes crystal clear (is there any other kind!), and his subtle jabs at Covenant Theology begin.
Interesting. I find myself to be much more in line with Covenant Theology than any other position at the moment. I still need to do some additional research on New Covenant Theology however. I am an RTS graduate (as of two days from now). I suppose I did a fairly decent job of being objective, then. Thanks for the data point! God bless, and take care.
@@PastorTanner Often times people argue against their position to add creditability. However, the Devil doesn't need an advocate.
@@PPyle Typical Reformed elitist snob. Smh!
On the land promises see Gary Burges book JESUS AND THE LAND.
Thanks for the recommendation, E Dean.