The Decline of Gibson...What Happened?
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2024
- One of the most successful guitar companies of all time may be filing for bankruptcy. This theorizes where they went wrong and why they find themselves in this position.
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I can tell you exactly what happened, they overvalued their instruments and lost track of what they’re about.
Philip Emanuel Couldn't have said it any better.
Philip Emanuel Damn bro, you nailed it.
Id like to buy a new one, just in case they go under and a 2018 gibson becomes a collectors item in 20 years
Oh God yes...
Bingo
Poor quality control and ridiculously overpriced guitars.
ohplezz Nothing like getting a new guitar with a bent truss rod. Apparently QC took the day off.
True on both but especially on being overpriced - especially with the insultingly low wages they pay their factory employees in Nashville.
@@bubbasouth69 A Plain Jane Sunburst or black finish regular Gibson Les Paul studio here in Canada is over $4000 to $6000+ depending on the model then you pay 13% sales tax?? Just ridiculous and that's why they're going to go under who in the hell can afford that kind of money?, your just paying for the name, not the quality which has somehow disappeared in the last 15+yrs. Back in 1985 I bought a brand new regular gibson Les Paul custom studio for $1500 kept it for a yr and I ended up trading it for an American standard Fender Strat what a big difference between Gibson and Fender, and to me It's Fender hands down for pricing and quality.
Crazy Canuck no argument there about the pricing. I once lived about a mile from the Gibson factory in Nashville and their wages were an insult. I currently have both a Gibson and an Epiphone Les Paul and the Epiphone plays every bit as good and only cost me $500 US dollars. I paid $800 for my Gibson which I bought online used from a Guitar Center in Florida. My Gibson is only a studio model but my Epiphone is the Traditional Pro model and has the coil splits and I can get lots more different tones out of it.
Of course, one other thing is now affordable Fender guitars are now coming out of Mexico. Wasn’t so many years ago you could buy an American standard Strat or Tele for $600 USD and that included a case. Those days are long gone.
"Gibson is not a guitar company, it's a music lifestyle company" - that says it all. It's what you get when you hire some guy with an MBA who doesn't play guitar and who would manage a company like Gibson as if they were makers of auto parts or dog food.
Mmm crunchy dog food, just like mom used to make it!
studied people who enter the industry and forget the core reason they're there. They forget the art behind it because its all profit to them the company goes down.
@@revivedcc1279 Yum yum.
Hey the guy who founded Yamaha wasn't a musician
@@Gamez4eveR No, but if I remember correctly his brother was :D
When you are charging hand built prices for a factory made guitar, eventually your customers catch on.
You mean PRS as well !
gerald hills They haven’t been what they started as in quite some time. money money money.
Hand built is usually about £4K and Gibsons are about £2k
Meanwhile, Fender has been knocking it out of the park with the mass produced Squier models. For 250-400 bucks, you can get a guitar worth using at gigs now. The game has changed so much, and Gibson needs to catch up. I mean Squier just released like 10 new guitars the other day! The Paranormal Series. That's more interesting and unique than anything Gibson has done in years.
Maybe Gibson needs to try some single coil style guitars, too. Something new, more vibrant sounding. Maybe an offset even. Just something new... If they came out with 3-4 totally new guitar models that are unique and capture what people want these days, they'd be in such better shape.
@@Official_KC Really. I bought a Squier Affinity (apparently slightly better than the cheaper Bullet), and there wasn't a damn thing wrong with it. Stayed perfectly in tune (other than using the bar, but far more expensive guitars go out of tune using one), the neck was straight, perfect intonation out of the box. Only thing I would've changed on it was the electronics.
They totally shot themselves in the foot. Trying to be the Apple of guitars. Producing Overpriced luxury blingy models that most average could never afford or even need. They should let go of the crap they’re trying outside of guitars, get rid of the owners who knew nothing nor cared about guitars, make like, 5 good models aimed at gigging musicians no more than $2000 tops.
According to some article I've read they are dumping their miserable electronics division and their worthless egotistical CEO. Now let's hope for the best.
@@intheenditdoesntmatter6481 Please let this be a true rebirth
And whaddaya know
Now the original collection is a thing
And that’s exactly why I bought a Les Paul kit guitar, cause I’m never gonna be able to afford the real deal 😂
"Trying to be the Apple of guitars. " - True techies abandoned Apple years ago and among true programmer types Apple is now hated more than Microsoft was 20 years ago. Gibson let their egos get out of control.
Me: *hugs my strat* don't listen to him buddy.
AWWWWWW I LOVE MY STRAT TOO
Fucking stratocasters are the best
Love my telecaster
Me: *hugs my schecter* nothing bad happens to german companies
Big Bleach Schecters are the best
I'm a teenager, I play guitar, and I have a low income. I like Gibson, as do countless other teens in the same boat. Gibson makes all these fancy new guitar to appeal to us interest wise, but they don't appeal in the price. I don't have $4,500 just lying about. They overprice their stuff. And when that stuff doesn't end up selling, they make newer, weirder, and more expensive products. They're digging their own grave at this point.
You nailed it. I've been playing all my life and held your view as a teen. I'm older now and have the money to buy a $4,500 new gibson, but refuse to do so. They've priced themselves out of the market especially from young folks like yourself which should be their target market. Fender realises this and have adjusted course accordingly offering quality instruments at a wide range of price points that young folks could actually reach.
Well, Gibson thinks that the majority of buyers are collectors with endless pockets. When in actual fact the biggest market share is down to earth-practices all night-neighbours go crazy-play a band-guitarist. They don’t spend 4500 guitars. For most people that is a good amp, couple of pedals, and a couple of strats, teles and what not.
9Sec340Demon you show me a standard USA LP (not that studio crap) for 700 and ill show you a liar...
Eppiphone and gretsch are decent guitars
Forza Martini Studios are the same as standards. They just lack binding.
"the most popular guitar in history"
[stares in Fender Stratocaster]
Idk to me they’re pretty much a draw
They’re both blown out the water by the Martin D lets be honest
Far more Martins made let’s be honest
@@Zilegil nah fender strat is first followed by the les paul
@@Zilegil well acoustics are another thing. Let's say you ask someone to just draw the first thing that comes to mind when they think electric guitar, I think the strat and Les Paul would probably be the most prominent picture in their heads. They won't know them by name but those silhouettes are iconic, even if you don't know guitars. Popularity is kinda subjective anyway but I think if a person who knows nothing of guitars can still recognize those two shapes then obviously either of them being called "most popular" has some merit.
rvharkless I think the les Paul is more well known as a model where the most well known body is strat style
I work at Gibson. It's real simple. They used to make 125 quality guitars a day. NOW, they make 350 to 500 rushed guitars a day. There's no care. No time taken. Just hurry up and make as many as you can. It's sad. They've lost alot of money and quality. Layoffs have been happening all over because of it.
TheGrantRomigExp what's the future looking like? What will it take to fix the problem?
one thing i realize is that management usualy have no idea of what makes the brand good!
the rest is just marketing bullshit moves to justify numbers!
dunno' if you were employed at Memphis, TN facility, "TheGrantRomigExp" but i toured that plant a few years ago & though i did enjoy the experience very much, i left w/ a similar sort of gut "feeling" about what i'd just seen. this is to say, a lot of rushing about, hurry-scurry, willy-nilly like & since i know what those (hollow body/ archtops) retail for it did kinda' make me go, "damn, that's a helluva' premium to pay for a headstock logo, &c.". it's a shame; Gibson's an iconic, American brand & it saddens me to know that poor mgt. decisions & a few, well paid bad actors basically ran the co. into the proverbial dirt. tickety boo. but hey, as the saying goes... "That's Rock 'n Roll...", eh?
i again! i´m not american , therefore i would loke to make a question....what about heritage guitars....we don´t have them in europe, are they any good????
You’re fired. 😉
I think the problem is that there are so many smaller customer guitar companies that can hand build a guitar with everything you want, for less than the price of a stock 2018 Gibson.
Frus77sh this right here. I can get a Ltd knock off les Paul with what I want and still get no where near to paying for what Gibson asks for a standard.
Nah. There's companies like PRS that cost almost more than a Gibson, yet they're thriving.
It's Gibson's reluctance to listen to their customers, the horrible quality control, and putting money in places where it shouldn't be. Just an overall tone-deafness.
Yeah they didn't listen, instead they built stupid shit that no one wanted like the Firebird X and robot guitar and said "Hey, look this is cool ain't it?"
The problem is that people always complain and gossip. "Gibsons are always the same" *Gibson innovate* -> "Mimimi it's not classic anymore, it's not what we expect from them". And the CEO also runs the company like shit to make things worse.
yes, and with proper quality control. Good fretwork, good neck anlges, no finish blemishes, etc.
On the other hand companies like Fender and PRS particularly seem to still be able to build excellent production guitars in the USA. Gibson forgot about the player. They leaned on their brand name for too long and players notice when the quality slips. That's how Ibanez, ESP, Burny, greco etc popped up in the 70s and 80s.
guitars aren’t dying, more people are buying used then new. You can get so much more value from a slightly older model
Exactly. I bought a used SG several years ago and it's been my main squeeze ever since.
Speak for yourself, I got a new Chinese strat copy (Zeny?) last year
emphasis on the "slightly older"
Buying used is the only way I could afford a Gibson. The sad part is the Epiphones are every bit as good and are actually affordable.
so true man, especially younger musicians who aren't on big wages!
You should do a video on zildjan cymbals. They’ve been around since the 1600’s!
And their split from Sabian
but they haven’t declined lol
Dr Pelliper he could do a The Rise it Zildjan or a Why They’re successful video.
Zildjan has one of the most interesting stories in the music industry
What Gibson’s problem was they charged way too much for a guitar that was a gamble in the first place. Gibson’s quality is so iffy, that they lost a lot of customers due to the price and the shotty quality control. There’s so many boutique guitar builders out there that make a much better product for about $1,000 cheaper.
AFS2728 they're also losing artists!
Truth. I'd like to have a Gibson flying V... But i dont think its worth $1,200
Bingo
Maybe if they relied less on their name and actually produced guitars that your average player could afford then they might sell a little better
pAWNproductionsDE couldn't agree more brother well said.
That’s why Fender is doing so good! (Although replacing the Mexican Standard series with the low quality and more expensive player series is a sign that they’re struggling too)
They tried that once and their sales went down; it was a case study in a marketing textbook I read back in 2010
from what I've heard, the plpayer series is pretty much an upgrade components wise to the standard.
pAWNproductionsDE AGREED
If I'm dropping 2-10 grand on a guitar, I'm getting some custom boutique guitar with magical pickups and pixie dust imbued into the bridge.
Psst pixie dust is available on Ebay.
Smart buy!
I keep cocaine underneath my bridge too lol
Bailey Serrao you could also buy a used Gibson, still American made, for less than $800. Food for thought...
Familiarize yourself with the definition of the word “imbue”...
Back in the 80's a Les Paul Standard went for about $800, now they go for 6k for a lesser quality. Not worth it.
Thank the union.
I got a Tokai instead.... I don't have that kind of scratch.
No they don't they cost about 2000 wich adjusting your price with inflation whould be 3369 they've gone down in price
@@wiseguy9202 [citation needed]
"Thank the union." -Wise Guy
As a guitarist, it saddens me to watch this video :/
Gibson didnt even went to NAMM this year
gabriel77196 yes they did
Oh wait or was that the other show
Wow really? that's quite the indication of things to come right there
gabriel77196 I got my first Gibson in December amazing guitar but bad experience when the neck came cracked so maybe Gibson will fix that but the company I got it from sent me a new one right away
Maybe it's best they didn't.
Here's their Hail Mary of an aborted guitar.
www.guitarworld.com/.image/ar_16:9%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cq_80%2Cw_1280/MTUzNTU2MTYzOTk1MzEzOTA1/custom-flying-v.jpg
I as well work at Gibson USA and the introduction of the self tuning LPs was a huge mistake made by the then CEO. Henry took a huge loan out to introduce these tuners and customers hated them. He signed a contract to have many thousands of the self tuners made and couldn't get out of the contract. This was the start of the problems. This is what got the ball rolling on the downturn. Henry should've asked the public what they liked and what they didn't. He presumed they'd love this new introduction. Henry should've been more in tune with what the public wants and not what he liked. Thank God we're back on track and have great new owners.
HAHA ! "More in tune" haha thats a good one hehe
Okay so it’s one year later, June of 2019. For this wondering, Gibson did declare bankruptcy, fired its CEO, sold a few businesses, and totally restructured the brand. It has been a huge success. They’re seeing big growth, they’ve reconnected with what their consumers want, and after almost a decade of very low quality instruments at incredibly high prices, their guitars are now at quality levels greater than ever before, and priced similarly to what they were in 2012.
Also, the guitar isn’t going anywhere. A higher percentage of the population plays guitar now than in 2000, and the guitar industry is worth more than ever, both in total value and percentage of product moved. New guitar sales are simply down because guitars are made of hard wood and don’t just break, so there no point in buying new when almost every guitar ever made is still in existence, and tens of millions are for sale used. Just thought I’d give some deeper insight.
The Beatles with Rickenbachers and Gretch and they did O.K. Lennon did pretty well with an Epiphone. More than the price tag, is how it fits you and helps you make music.
People entirely missed what was really going on with Gibson's bankruptcy. There was this whole kerfuffle about Gibson going under and being in deep trouble. Gibson's core guitar business was doing fine and is still doing fine. Gibson as a holding company was in trouble, not Gibson as a guitar manufacturer. Guitarists and musicians having these ridiculous myopic opinions on business was just annoying.
@@Ferretsnarf As someone who listens to a lot of pop and alternative radio, I'm ALSO hearing a lot of electric guitars being more prominent too. Who knows how long it'll last, but I'm enjoying it.
Jack Sprat I have nothing against epiphone, but if you really think today’s epiphone is the same as the epiphone they used back then, you’re very misinformed
This isn't true at all, they tried to rebrand and then came out with that awful "play authentic" marketing crap and showed once again that they haven't changed. They also are now SUING other guitar companies... Gibson isn't changed at all.
As a fan of hardcore and punk music, it's sad to hear that guitar is declining in the musical industry!
I think the guitar business is vibrant nowadays. Gibson is now run by idiots.
@@Oldman808 I disagree.. I think what Company man says it right. People get inspired to pick up instruments from the music they enjoy and what is the popular style of the day. And there's just not nearly as much of it that's guitar based anymore. I grew up in the 80s and 90s and there were tons of non-guitar based acts that were huge- Michael Jackson, George Michael, Madonna, etc. But still topping the music charts were bands like Van Halen, Def Lepard, Motley Crew, Poison and I could go on. If you analyze the same big artists today, I would say the ratio is much lower- it's mostly Hip hop, solo acts, not much that is going to inspire someone who wants to pick up a guitar.
@@kevinmach730 all 3 of those non-guitar based acts you mentioned all had guitar based music. Hell, Eddie Van Halen played guitar on a few MJ song as well as many other guitar players. Both George Michael and Madonna actually played guitar themselves on stage at many shows.
"Les Paul may be the most popular and well known guitar"
Stratocaster:
*Hugs my les paul* shhh shhh, it's not a big deal, you're amazing as is
The Les Paul came out between the Tele and the Strat. I find it strange that Gibson didn’t come out with an answer to the Strat sooner. The SG was originally called the “new” Les Paul model but Les Paul had nothing to do with it at all and, in fact, he hated the new design. If not for Jimmy Page, Gibson may very well have gone down the toilet in the 60s. CBS almost brought the same fate to Fender.
This channel basically Googles shit and makes videos. Anyone that knows guitars will say the Strat is the most iconic and popular guitar. I mean search "electric guitar" on Google. Or ask some kid to draw an electric guitar. They damn sure aren't going to draw a Les Paul. It's almost always going to look like a Strat.
@@bubbasouth69 Hell, I'm surprised they STILL don't have an answer to it. They keep messing up so much. Fender has been absolutely dominating with pro musicians playing guitar the past decade or so. Hell, there's pros playing Squier guitars too. The 400 dollar ones.
Gibson really needs to get some R&D and come up with 2-3 sort of Fender style guitars. Maybe with a different headstock and shape, but they need some offset or curved bodies that don't weigh 100 lbs. They need to get some single coils in there. They need some new guitars. I mean Squier just released a whole new LINE of guitars called the "Paranormal Series" a couple weeks back. They're more unique than anything Gibson has done in a long damn time.
Gibson can't rely on the older retirees forever. They have to appeal to younger players. I seriously think they need to make some single coil sort of more Fender-esque guitars. Ever since The Strokes and bands like Arctic Monkeys came out in the early to mid 2000s, it's basically been *the* sound. Despite them using Gibsons here and there, it's ultimately a Fender sound.
@@Official_KC steven tyler sad it all "Dream on ". If it makes you sleep better go with it, thank God the popularity of the Les paul doesn't rest on how you feel about it, like I've said before they are both great guitars and both have it's place in music, it would sound strange listening to a old country song played with a distorted P90,, and Leslie west playing Mississippi queen with a strat won't quite get it, they both have their spot on stage,,,
They should have simply cut their losses and scaled down.
Or they could have branched out and made amplifiers like Fender and PRS did.
orlock20 They did before Marshall and Fender took over the world in the 60s.
Dead right!!!!!
TheProgGuy but again, the Epiphone's tube amps were kind of popular, good low price tube amps is something uncommon on the marketing today. Also, they just need to lower the price of their stuff and make the more modern versions less expensive.
Didn’t they try to invest in consumer electronics?
You are forgetting THE LEGEND who uses a Les Paul:
Marty Schwartz
Who?
Marty is helping teach an entire generation of guitar students how to play. Based god.
yesss my man marty 😤👏
HEEEEYYYYY WHAT'S UP GUYS MARTY MUSIC HERE
@@strangething4322 Marty sucks he over complicates everything its a joke
Simple answer, simply too expensive for average people
Jean Lau you’re not wrong, the majority of guitarist would love to buy a Gibson LP but simple couldn’t even afford a standard american made LP. Set you back about 2500, a standard no bells and wistle good old american stratocaster is probably half that on black friday. So perhaps yes, price had something to do with this...
Yeah, they are luxury guitars, you have to have a load of cash.
Thankfully Gibson has reacted to the backlash somewhat; the price of a Les Paul Standard has dropped to $2500. Still absurdly expensive for their STANDARD model, but much better than the $3300 it was before.
@@thedeviousduck8027 have you seen catalogues from the 50's, Stratocasters were dearer than Les Pauls! Your right, they should be cheaper.
On top of that, repairs for a Gibson are insane. If you snap the headstock of a Gibson, you’re screwed. If you snap the headstock of a Strat, just slap on a new neck. $200 and you can do it yourself.
So if I’m someone looking to buy for the first time, I’m gonna get the guitar that is more forgiving of mistakes.
Less people are playing guitar these days, and even less of them are aspiring to own a Gibson. And the few that do, can't afford one. All = disaster.
I don't agree with the idea that Gibson's woes are due to the guitar being unpopular for two reasons. One, No other guitar company is struggling the way Gibson is, some have issues, but none are in this full-blown crisis mode that Gibson is in. Also, sales are booming for a lot of smaller, boutique guitar makers right now. Two, the guitar certainly isn't as popular as it once was in pop music, but that's really it. There's a huge indie rock craze dominating college radio and music festivals right now, guitar culture is really booming online, and almost any live music events you go to are going to have guitar players with almost every act. Just because there's not a lot of guitar in top 40 radio, doesn't mean the guitar industry is on the way out. The unpopularity of Guitars is very over-exaggerated by main stream media and old rock dads bemoaning that Led Zeppelin isn't on top 40 radio anymore.
Gibson is failing because they made a lot of very bad moves with their guitars. Over the past 15 years their quality control has plummeted (to the point where in multiple press releases for their 2018 lineup they mistakenly released pictures of damaged instruments) and their prices have skyrocketed. They also pulled a "New Coke" move in 2015 when they completely redesigned the Les Paul with stupid gimmicks like robotic tuning pegs and made the original Les Paul design not available. This made sales plummet in 2015, and they ended up having to completely reverse everything for their 2016 lineup.
Bottom line, Gibson has nothing to blame for their failures except their own bad business techniques. Specifically their abysmal quality control, and their outrageous prices that don't even come close to their competitors prices.
Yep
Exactly. The idea that guitars are declining in sales seems pretty off. Retail companies decline nowadays because of the online market, It doesn't help Gibson when people are open to buy any other brand and any guitar out there without having to find a tangible store that sells the one they want.
I have to agree. I could buy an epiphone for a quarter of the cost of a Gibson and have a luthier set it up and swap the electronics the way I want it and STILL spend less than HALF of the price of a Gibson Standard Les Paul. The cost of a Gibson is so high that a lot of shops like Guitar Center will place them high on walls out of reach of the consumer, which also kills sales.
Thanks for the concise reply. I have always thought Gibsons were too expensive for what you recieved, but I was unaware of their more recent moves which essentially trashed the brand. So sorry to see this happen to Gibson.
Beenthere Donethat Name one other guitar company doing as badly as Gibson. Guitars aren’t dying, rock maybe, but every pop band still plays electric guitars. Gibson has gone to shit, plain and simple. Their quality control is garbage for their price point which is already too high. Nobody wants to take a 2000 dollar risk when there are better instruments to be had for less. This is coming from someone who has 3 Les Pauls.
In my opinion Fender began a pivot about fifteen to twenty years ago in which they began to focus on raising the quality of their lower end model line (Squier) and seemed to have put a lot of effort into simplifying their manufacturing methods and ensuring reasonable QC over that sector. Gibson made a huge mistake in thinking that it could coast on premium brand recognition and continue to attempt to streamline production, which at their price-point- you can't. I think what Fender did was very savvy, they maintained close ties to their budget line rather than treating it like an unwanted step child (like Gibson does with Epiphone), and raised the quality and affordability to gain market share while also allowing their high-end and custom shop to flourish with some autonomy from the workaday bulk of manufacturing. You can still get a premium Fender and they have great reputations, but they sell tons of Squiers with very few complaints about the quality.
Yeah the past 15-20 years Fender has done a great job of getting their guitars into as many people as they can and at a price point that can work with everyone.
Does the CEO play guitar does the CFO play guitar does the CIO play guitar,,, if none of these people play guitar Houston we have a problem
Joe Morrow if you cannot be “responsible” for and actually stand by your product (i.e., in this case use the product as you’ve clearly stated), then we certainly do had a grand problem, I most certainly agree!! 😓😪
Wrong. Leo Fender didn't play guitar but he knew how to build em and made what was pretty much the Ford Model T of Electric Guitars, dependable, well built, easily maintainable and at the time affordable.
Super Wukongo I love Fender but Leo Fender had some flawed designs that later designers fixed for him. Truss rod screw at the heel of the neck? why??? That just makes adjusting the truss rod an incredibly annoying and time consuming process
@@thedeviousduck8027 I never said Perfect, but the design evolved over time to be a pretty great guitar.
Henry Ford didn't drive a car when he invented one. The Wright Brothers weren't pilots before they started flying.
For the money Gibson charges for their guitars, they should be perfection itself. Instead, they are hit and miss. The Epiphone division is hit and miss as well but with an average street price of 350 to 450, you can expect that. But with 2 grand, I want perfection. And an L5 for 11K? Ya gotta be kidding. What could you possibly put in a guitar that makes it worth 11K or more?
For a Les Paul, about 8.2oz of gold bullion.
Ride Like a Pro Jerry Palladino.... I find your point of view to be more realistic, however lots of people think they are making the best product they ever have.... but there again they shouldn’t have lied about there weight relieving system... I mean, why would you remove wood from under the bridge.... oh well... fender it is then... lol
Ride Like a Pro Jerry Palladino I think they must make you play better for $11k, but nope... if you suck... you just have an $11k guitar that lets everyone know you suck... and you clearly have way to much money haha
It's insane...my father in law went to school with Paul Smith (of Paul Reed Smith fame)...I got the chance to meet him a number of years back...he was a cool guy, but the burning question I just had to ask was, why charge so much for a Dragon Inlay?? His response? "Because we can. People buy it, thus making it worth that much." Couldn't argue with that...just looks like Gibson had the same thought process, but along the way people didn't think it was worth it anymore...
I disagree with epiphone being hit and miss I have never picked up an epiphone that had issues nor have I ever owned an epi with any issues I have however I have picked up many a Gibson and actually bought 2 1st gibby was a used late 70's SG back in the early mid 90's which was fine and a 2000 les paul standard and the standard had to have fret level and crown just to make it playable and that isn't including having to replace the pots ( although hindsight I should have went with cts instead of replacing with the same Gibson branded ones) and a setup.
Gibson priced themselves out of the market. I found a Gibson Les Paul at a music store for $10,500. The same store had an Epiphone Les Paul for $279. They looked identical, they both sounded great,and quite frankly, Epiphone does a better job at quality control. Epiphone does use cheaper parts, but it still more than sufficient for the average player, and swapping out parts to upgrade is easy and not very expensive.
I have a couple Epis, love them... but a fact you don't seem to know about quality control, it's Gibson doing the quality control. All the Epis made in Asia, are shipped to Gibson in the US and go through Gibson's inspection, before going out to the dealers.
I bought a Epiphone Blues Zephyr Deluxe (based on a Gibson L-5) and stripped the electronics, replacing them with the highest quality stuff I could find (Lollar pickups). The guitar itself was $800 and the new parts were about another $600. So, for $1,400, I got a big box jazz guitar that sounds and plays as good or better than a Gibson at a fraction of the cost. I would encourage others to do the same thing.
I do the same thing, I buy Chinese copies then upgrade the electronics, and end up with a $4000 guitar for a fraction of the price
With a new Gibson, it's almost like you're paying $2,000 just for the name on the headstock.
That's all bro. Gibson's are just too damn expensive. I have 2 Ibanez guitars that sound great and cost less than 700 bucks
Their guitars are too goddamn expensive
For most people, yes.
@@guitarsrcool4922 Not exactly for economic capabilities, they charge a nice percentage just for a logo that constantly loses value as a quality sign and the rest of the guitar only proves that. So paying $3000 for the quality of a $1000 is nonsense unless someone thinks the logo is worth the difference.
@@abcrx32j Of course your paying for the brand name. I have one and I admit it. At the time I bought it as a treat for myself. Some people will say it's worth every penny and that's fine too. I play it every night. Have to get my money's worth out of it.
Gibson charges way way too much for a guitar. C&C machines replaced lots of human labor cost but their guitars keep going up in price!! Just a rip off!
Guitars are hand crafted
@@BOWS3R do you know what a cnc is?
Also James using machinery doesn't make the end product cheaper otherwise it would be pointless to buy machinery. It does however produce a better product, faster and more repeatable. Any errors in that area are due to untrained employees and under maintained equipment. I buy tools and equipment that make my life easier but it doesnt change my price in the end, it makes me money otherwise it would be pointless.
They've had 66 years to design a nut for the Les Paul that's fit for purpose and they still failed. Sorry but there's no excuse - a guitar costing that much should be perfect when it leaves the factory. It shouldn't be necessary to replace the nut.
... and the electronic, and the pickups, and the mechanics, and the saddle, and the bridge.
I've purchased over a dozen Les Paul Customs brand new. None of them needed a replacement nut. You, are nothing more THAN A COMPLELTE BULLSHITTER.
And you are a butthurt 1% billionnaire trying to shame somebody having a legit critic.@@acegibson9533
@@acegibson9533 I know right?? What the hell is he talking about?
@@1wide9111 do you believe your guitar is worth more because its made by some toothless hillbilly in tennessee? I'm just curious.
If you get the chance, could you do the decline of yahoo?
Justin Major Yahoo is broken
Yahoo is garbage don’t bring that up
ColdFusion did a really good video about the decline of Yahoo, if I were you I'd check that one out :)
Justin Major fuck is wrong with you?
company man already did a video of it from 2 days ago
I own a 1977 Les Paul Standard that I purchased back in 1977 for $450(case included). They only had three main models back then, Custom, Standard and Deluxe. Periodically there were other limited production models. Now I can't keep up with the number of choices. Sad to see to state of current affairs. I still own that '77 Les Paul. Even though it's well-worn, it still plays beautifully. Sweet guitar.
The pulled an apple: started selling Gibson labels that come with a free guitar.
😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂
Wait. A person who makes $9 an hour shouldn't buy a $300K house? If only someone could go back to 2006 and explain this radical idea to bankers/investors.
Haha... True that..
Also maybe explain to Moody's that securities based on a bunch of shit tier mortgages shouldn't be rated AAA just because they want the bank's business. Oh well at least that corrupt company fell apart because of the trillions of dollars lost because they didn't do their job... oh, right -_-
Christopher Conard Damn if I had only watched this video before I bought that house. All kidding aside Gibson's quality control has been inconsistent for a long time. The rock stars don't get their guitars from fender, gibson, or wherever. A luthier builds them and gets permission to slap a brand name on the head stock. Slashes appetite guitar, not made by gibson (fact look it up kids).
The bankers knew, they were banking on it.
HighFlyer sort of. The government opened the floodgates. The banks just did what the feds made legal. Unethical isn't always illegal.
Where did they go wrong? Model after model that nobody who plays a guitar can afford during an economic down turn, compounded by less popularity in the market to begin with. Because what we really need are some more $5,000+ models for those 3 people out there.
I recently saw a Fender Yngwie Malmsteen Edition Stratocaster at a guitar shop, I was surprised when I saw the price because figured it would be in the $5-6000 range but it was only $1800 by itself or you could buy the complete set up which included an overdrive pedal signature strings and some other bits and bobs for $2200 while an Angus Young Gibson SG Special was almost $5000.
Having any guitar valued at over 1000 dollars is absurd. The general consumer recognizes this.
TRUTH. Greed kills.
That Les Paul is built to the same quality as a $300 Ibanez Gio. $739 is far too expensive for what the customer is given.
Gibson of today isn't gibson of yesteryear. That's the problem with them demanding the prices they are. You can go buy complete 1 off customs for less than even mid range gibsons cost. There's many boutique manufacturers who are head and shoulders above gibson, offering far higher quality and options for the same money. Gibson is just relying on a name to sell their guitars.
Yes, their good ones are quite good, but they are no where near $5000 good. You can buy a PRS for that, and any US made PRS is going to be a better guitar. Epiphones aren't any different than any of their competition, and have less quality options than their competition at the same price point.
Their entire brand is really not surviving in a competitive atmosphere. Fender took the right approach to the market, gibson did not. You can get something damn close to custom shop quality from fender for right at $1k. You can get signature customshop models for less than $2k. They come with aftermarket pickups and all the nice mods you'd normally do to a guitar, and they come with these without charging a premium for them. And when you drop big bucks on a fender, you're usually getting a 1 off that was hand built.
All the craftsmen are gone. The "relay of knowledge was broken " you can feel it and see it.
Not that much skill involved in CNC machining and assembly.
As a musician, I think Gibson missed the mark on incoming artists. Their epiphone line of starter guitars aren’t up the pare when compared to Fender’s squire line. Also, Gibson guitars are also a lot more expensive than Fender guitars, not as many upcoming artists have ever played a Gibson. Fender has had a better track record with newer musicians
They are also too damn expensive. No wonder they aren't selling as many.
So are Ferrari and Apple Computer yet both survived bankrupcy to become top valued companies!
Harry Parker the thing is that a guitar of the same quality from other manufacturers costs about half, and their QC is shit. You can get a shitty guitar for 3k from Gibson. Fender nor Schecter Nor ESP nor PRS will fuck you up with a 3k guitar (that will be better than the Gibson even if the QC is on point)
Buying a Gibson nowadays is like buying a Ferrari and finding out that it has the quality of a Kia
Mac has the same CPU, Memory, Harddrive and PCB. Ferrari has similar parts vs a Corvette or other Sports Cars.. No difference in components!
Not even close... After all Apple has lost a lot of their market. Ferrari doesn't have a hundred competitors in their segment.
Any crap guitar with kick-ass pickups will sound as good as a GIbson (heck, there is a video of a plank of wood from Home Depot that sounds just like a Les Paul). So... why are they trying to get $2500 for a simple guitar? Let alone their new 2018 models (Modern Flying V) for just $4500.....
Making studio monitors that look like a Les Paul is NOT the answer. Does anybody think of Gibson when they think of buying STUDIO MONITORS?! Absolutely CLUELESS leadership at Gibson.
I totally agree with this. My first thought was "they're pretty but wtf?"
They tried to jump the shark.
Yikes
reemo I know..its retarded. The goof ball CEO admitted he was trying to turn Gibson into a ....and I quote..." a lifestyle brand". Smack my fukin head. Anyways...with this Chapter 11 filing..he will be gone. And the bankers are going to jump in and pick apart and sell off all these bullshit company's that Gibson acquired and that have nothing to do electric guitar. My prediction is Gibson isn't going anywhere except maybe some models (or even all of them) may very well be built in other countries in the near future. The used market prices for made in USA models and pre bankruptcy guitars will sky rocket. I could be wrong. Indont know. Just my prediction. I have a Gibson Les Paul Special with humbucker I bought new in 2003. Just a stripped down workingmans Gibson L.P. No fancy maple cap. No bindings or fancy inlays. Just dot neck. A real players guitar and it plays and sounds great. My only axe. I never had any intentions more than just playing the damn thing over the years. I paid 650$ for it brand new in 2003. On a job I was on traveling with my dad in Sioux Falls South Dakota on a day off from work. But Iam keeping it for real real now. But if my prediction turns out to be true and real deal Gibson's are going to start being made in other countries..that would be a big deal in the used market. And I think if someone were to buy that Gibson Les Paul Standard model with the American Flag (I think they are silly personally) top now....man that thing just because of what it is might fetch huge bucks in the future. I could be all wet here. These are just my thoughts.
What the hell is a 'Music Lifestyle Company '?
It means “this $800 guitar costs $3,000” 😂😂😂
It's partly the music industry, how many kids in the 80's watched MTV and then craved a guitar, today not so much.
In the late '90's they treated their smaller dealers like crap and catered to Guitar Center and Musician's Friend. The smaller dealers across the country couldn't compete and dropped the line. Made it harder for the consumer to find their product compared to other companies like Fender and Ibanez.
Brad H . You hit it square on the head. They treated the MOM and pops like crap. Priced themselves right out of the store with HUGE buy ins and orders. Little pity for prozac Henry.
If you own a guitar shop they require you to purchase $80K worth of gear up front and require a 5 year commitment. Over the last month or so I went to 6 different mom and pop guitar shops and not a single one had a single Gibson.
They did the exact same thing here in the UK - they demanded that if you wanted to be a gibson dealer you had to carry massive amounts of stock, far more than was realistic for the smaller shops, so they where forced to drop gibson. Now gibson is mostly a 'box shifter' brand, though there are still a few of the bigger shops stocking them (andertons comes to mind). It's been such a shame to see gibson's slow but inevitable demise, but they lost sight of the goal a long time ago, and now they're so far of course I honestly don't know what can save them.
While you are correct, ibanez sucks and fender builds guitars in Mexico and calls them the same as an American made fender, ridiculous. Sadly the companies that survived are even worse, outsourcing is a plague.
tnix80 ever heard of Epiphone?
Gibson guitars are known for their quality control issues.
314jrock I teach piano at a music store. They also sell guitars, and my good friend and one of the managers explained to me one day why they don't stock Gibson.
Apparently, they're a Draconian dealer. They require stores to buy at least one of each of their guitars, and because that's a lot of shelf space and half of their guitars could possibly suck, they choose other dealers like Ibanez and ESP.
NO MA'AM I don't live in a big city, so I probably don't have the best frame of reference (plus, I'm a trade guy), but every comic shop I've been in around me has been a small store in a strip mall. Of course they can't stock everything and would prefer to pick and choose Spider-Man and whatever movie just came out. They don't have enough shelf space for all of Marvel.
NO MA'AM With Bendis leaving, who wrote about half of the good Marvel stories this century, what talent do you think Marvel has that could keep the spirit alive?
Hell, Fender requires a $100k buy in. I don't stock either one.
Big difference in invested capital. How many comic books at $2 a pop versus x number of guitars at $1200 (or more) wholesale?
I've wanted a Gibson SG since I was 10.. never had the $$ for one.. after reading last year they were having financial troubles and prices were going down, I checked the local shop.. SG's were now starting at $1200 CAD, rather than about $2400... Since I'm a professional photographer and need to invest money into gear that makes me money, I still couldn't justify buying a $1200 guitar.. Well, I just spent $50 and rented for a month.. and it's a dream to play, and since it's a rental, it sells for $1000.. Think I'm going to have to pony up, and at age 36 finally get my SG.. :)
Why not use zzounds
@@chrisdidonna7371 Gibson has had SG standard for roughly $1200 for over a decade, They have different models that get up there. But Gibson selling an SG for $1200 is not a new thing nor is it the cheapest they sold SGs for. The SG Specials and guitars like that were around $800 ish at one point. You use to be ablet o get a Gibson Les Paul Studio for $699 new. But in the past 25 years unlike other companies, Gibson has upped the prices and lost their QC. Just because its made in the US doesnt mean its better. Just like when i see people buy an amp that includes a "Celestion speaker"... well what model is it ? "The 70/80". Well thats a POS speaker so that shouldnt make you want the amp anymore than before. That shouldnt be the selling point for consumers but most dont know any better and know the name and the amps sell. But the Gibson name and quality are hit or miss and with the prices their guitars have creeped up to, they have allowed these other companies to gain their market share. People can get one hell of a guitar with a name brand on the headstock that looks awesome and will knock your socks off for 1/4 of the price, if not lower. Ive seen $200-300 guitars that blow my mind.
gibson: make les paul standards how you did in 59 and price them about the same as a fender strat. your company will be back on track in a year i guarantee it.
mrfarenheit0323 A-FREAKIN'-MEN!
Too expensive. You can get a beautiful and professional quality instrument from Ibanez, Fender for $1000-1500. Les Paul standard starts at over $2200.
Ok.... well here is the thing 20 years from now what is that Ibanez going to be worth? I have a 1971 Les Paul Deluxe... I bought it in a pawn shop 32 years ago for $350.00 Its worth close to 10 times that today. Ibanez's TANK in the second-hand market. An AMERICAN made Fender holds up okay but not like a Gibson Les Paul will. So if you are only looking at a playable instrument that sounds decent then yeah, you can pay less. Your NEVER getting your money back outside the American made Fender and the Gibsom Les Paul.
if you play the guitar, it's value will fall rapidly. A worn out guitar values less than a new. The main issue is the frets. They can wear out pretty quickly on expensive guitars also. Very few guitars on the market have stainless steel frets and big manufacturers(Gibson, Fender) don't produce them. A refretted guitar costs less than a non refretted. So, if you want to have a guitar locked in it's case, and admire it's beauty from time to time, a Gibson will do the work.
Rob Schaller well that's true but resale prices aren't helping Gibson!!! The guitars cost too much. I own 3 American Fender guitars. For me they're a better value, better sounding instrument minus the pretty artwork. Sure there is a niche market for guys that are willing to pay 2500-3500 for a single guitar but that's not a good business model for such a large company.
I feel like they should tweak the designs of the lower priced guitars like the SG and go after Stratocaster customers.
Why does it matter if a guitar's value depreciates? If you have a solid, beautiful sounding guitar, it will always have value to you.
John D, because many people get tired of their gear easily.
I think another problem lies in that Gibson’s guitars are extremely expensive, with a similar quality Fender being considerably cheaper
Sam Frechette True. Plus any bands that I've seen that actually play guitar and are in the charts all play Fenders. In the early 2000s a lot of pop punk and ""emo"" stuff was charting. Humbuckers are better for those more distorted tones so they went for Gibson. Today you have bands like The 1975 who prefer single coils for their clean sound. They buy Fenders, which makes kids want Fenders. That's my theory anyway.
Jewish Milkman Probably too same what happened with Indian and Harley Davidson.
Embargoman Gibson is exactly like Harley-Davidson. They milked their name to death.
Sam Frechette yeah and epiphone guitars (that Gibson owns) are now having Gibson pickups built into them and are using the same wood, just built in other countries so it’s 4x less
Sam yes, and that hasn't perhaps endeared the make to a lot of real musicians. People who I know that are really into music will play anything they can afford and that's available, and that's rarely a Gibson. Gibsons in my experience seem to be the preserve of stodgy dad bands and retired people with a bit of cash who always wanted to "own a Gibson".
I believe the Fender Stratocaster is the most popular electric guitar, with the Les Paul coming in right behind it. Basically they are the big two.
A classic case of poor management. The attempt to acquire additional companies ( and borrow money to do so ) is a high end gamble, assuming you borrow at correct amounts and rates, and assuming what you purchase can be garnered into enough income to warrant the loan. One of the largest forces hitting Gibson is not only a change in music styles, but a substantial change in demographics ( ie fewer buyers ), and a resulting massive oversupply in the markets ( ie no need to buy new when a used one is less and better quality ). Gibson Brands Moody Rating of Caa3 remains.
They are declining because they are putting out a product and charging way too much for it. I loved Gibson when I first got into guitars. But the quality went down and the prices went up.
20 years ago I bought a gibson les paul special for 800 bucks. Last week I bought I gibson SG special for not much more. Cool story, bro.
crush537 you’re an idiot
It’s also stupid to walk into a guitar shop where there is no new guitar to been seen and see a grand price tag on a beat up les Paul that doesn’t even have some shmuck’s signature on it. Haha. Priced by name alone.
They aren't listening to what the average musician wants, that's why their sales are falling. Making a $5000 guitar for rich people who want to keep it in a glass case is just not going to boost revenues. Making a reasonably priced vintage inspired les paul targeted at working musicians would help.
HES gibson owns epiphone though so they did that
trevor aresta Epiphones are still expensive as well.
I absolutely agree man. Fender and Squier have been churning out quality guitars at a reasonable price for years. Not only that but Gibson really hasn't been catering to where Guitarists are going, a lot of people play 7 and 8 string guitars in the Metal community and that's been dominated by Agile, Ibanez and Schecter just to name a few. They also haven't done much to capture the indie hipster craze either, unlike Fender who has been taking full advantage of it.
You should also take into consideration what their corporate identity has been over the last 6½ decades: they are an elitist brand, just like Mercedes Benz and Ferrari in the car business.
Don't expect Mercedes Benz to make Opel Astras and don't expect Ferrari to make Fiat 500s.
Ferrari, Maserati, Lancia and Fiat belong to the same concern, but they are separate brands, each with its own type of customers. That's market differentiation.
Gibson always stood for TRADITION. They are OLD and respected for their traditional approach. The moment they started messing with that identity, their customers turned their back on them. They DON'T WANT gimmicks and gadgets, they want traditionally built electric guitars, because they are CONSERVATIVE. That's why they want their guitars to be as close to a 1959 Les Paul as can be, because they are convinced that 'in the old days' everything was BETTER.
This leaves very little room for innovations under the Gibson flag. They could try them under a different flag, since they took over several other guitar companies that are less traditional, such as Valley Arts.
Epiphone
I just want to add to this. It seems like both Fender and Gibson became complacent over the decades with their status and their ability to just rely on their names and their reputation in the industry.
I have not looked into how Fender is doing as a business these days, but anyone who has been playing guitars for long enough can totally recognize that Fender got wise in the last decade or so. They realized that they can’t just simply rely on their name and their legendary guitar and bass models. Look at the changes in quality that they’ve made to Squier guitars. Look at the Parallel Universe series guitars. I think Fender realized two major thing within the last decade; they can’t simply rely on their name anymore (for reasons mentioned in this video; i.e. guitar being less popular in general these days) and that the music gear market has opened up SO wide that competition is around every corner.
Musicians, specifically guitar and bass players, don’t have to turn to Fender or Gibson these days for quality. The internet/used gear market is making it easier than ever to not have to turn directly to these companies anymore. There are tons and tons of great options out there from other brands these days (a lot of which can be found for relatively reasonable prices).
I guess what I’m trying to say is that out of the two big brands (Gibson and Fender), Fender seems to have wised up more as of recently. They seem to be done simply relying on just their name. They also seem to be winning the culture war of the two by being trendier. People don’t care about Slash anymore like they did in the past.
Simple they got greedy, took Gibson into a lifestyle direction and forgot about what they were about: great guitars.
Holy crap congrats on 200k subscribers! I didn't know you blew up so much
I contributed to those numbers.
And well deserved!
I still want to know how you're absolutly in every comment section of every video I click on
I see you everywhere
Xavier Olvera same
The markup on Gibson's is beyond absurd. I bought a Custom Deluxe in 1989 for 800.00 brand new. Even if you adjust for inflation that same guitar I bought would be 1,500.00 today. However that same model today costs approximately 3500.00! A Les Paul Traditional is around 1,700.00! That's crazy! I've played 300.00 imports that sound every bit as good. Gibson needs to get over themselves, come back down to earth, and start charging a reasonable price for their guitars! They also need to scale their lineup back. They have way too much bloat in their inventory. Way too many models within models.
killerdude35, You said it. Same here, I bought a LP standard for 800.00 new in 1990 and a Classic for 1000.00 in 1991. Quite frankly, I think the line up should be Studio, Standard, Custom and Deluxe. Bring the prices back down to earth and if you want something crazy expensive or some kind of relic, get it through the custom shop.
I worked at a music store for 8 years during the 2000's. Gibson's would be ridiculously overpriced if they were good quality, but they aren't (or weren't then). One we got had black hardware, but I guess they ran out of black bridges so someone had colored it black with a sharpie. Another one came in with the knobs stuck in the finish. Yeah, I'll pay $4500 for that.
I worked for a music shop in the 90s and believe it or not, we did not sell new Gibsons period. The only Gibson guitars we had in the inventory were used instruments we took in trade. My shop owner had had too many of those type of QC problems with Gibson and he absolutely refused to even do business with them
They've moved their electric guitar production from Memphis to Nashville with all other instrument production. Man, Memphis is a hole of economic suck, I'm amazed that anything survives there.
Bad management by Henry J., poor quality control, unreasonable stocking requirements of authorized dealers, ever increasing prices, micro-management-bad corporate culture, and frequent stupid mistakes, the biggest one not listening to musicians and dealers.
Renshen1957 I don't know what all that meant, but it sounded smart and well informed to me.
I know what a guitar company is. I don't know what a "music lifestyle" company is. Maybe Gibson doesn't either!
I think they wanted to be more like Marshall, who sells headphones and.. fridges
I had a Fender ad before this 😂
If I had a Gibson, I would probably keep it in a glass case on the wall..! I would be far too precious about it to play it. My Epi SG that I love dearly is accessible; sounds the business; I may mod it with a clean conscience, and - with my current playing level - I feel that it is an instrument of which I am 'worthy'... Like, only card-carrying RoK GoDs can really play a Gibson.
It's like, Gibson has "exclusive'd" itself to the max, and made itself unreachable. Untouchable. Unplayable.
Epiphone is great :-) Feels great, somehow seems to have fewer limitations as far as models go (Epiphone basically carry the same designs as Gibson, but it also has a few unique ones such as the Cheshire...), and even though Epiphone is officially slated as "Gibson on a budget", many players pick an Epi over a Gibson - Noel Gallagher and BB King being two that immediately come to mind.
Fender is somehow more accessible than Gibson, mod friendly, easy to repair - or replace entire guitar parts. You can 'play' them, 'work' them, experiment with them... Even Kit-Build guitars basically come out looking like a Strat, Tele, Jazzmaster, or some unique combination of parts from all three - which are (to an extent) INTERCHANGEABLE..!
Restructuring the finance of the company is all well and good, but restructuring the mindset in management and their vision of the future will be the most critical things to do.
Love all 4 of my Epis!
My Korean Epiphone SG sounds better than anything Gibson labeled tone wise. The Gibson products can intonate better, but even that is iffy.
I would say that Fender is more popular than Gibson, it is still a close one tho.
Matias Araya Personally, Fender really made the electric guitar we know today, Gibson just improved on it.
Since the Gibson LP was Rock N Roll's go to guitar, that's why Gibson has always been viewed as #1 to most people. To be honest, i think Fender has done so much more to the guitar world than Gibson and I believe Fender should have always been #1.
Right now gibson only appeals to boomers, Fender also appeals to boomers but still gets a huge part of the millennial market thanks to their offsets, and the Squier and Jackson brands.
Of all the major manufacturers, Fender will likely ride out the coming death of the guitar, primarily because they've never lost sight of their core business and audience. They make affordable, reliable instruments that have changed little since their inception, and that dependability will make them attractive to the remaining guitarists out there for years to come.
As someone who worked in the guitar industry from 2002 to 2012, I can tell you another big reason of why "they aren't as popular as they used to be."
They are a shitty company that treats their dealers horribly and thinks that raising prices is how you offset low sales. They were consistently year-over-year raising the annual minimum purchases on dealers to outrageous levels. This did two things: 1. It pushed out dealers who just plain couldn't afford to buy in every year, and 2. the companies that did want to re-up would have to blow-out their old inventory in order to afford the new stuff, thus devaluing the entire product line.
There's also the issue of employee turn-over in Memphis. Gibson just cannot pay what someone like a car manufacture down the road can, and unfortunately, it's only cool to work on a guitar assembly line for so long before you realize that you can make 2-3x as much at a different factory a couple miles away.
Combine all that with the fact that overseas import guitars are just so damn good nowadays there's little reason for anyone to buy a high-dollar US guitar unless you just plain want it and can afford it.
Yep, yep and yep. Also, they dictated what inventory each store had to take, couldn't cherry-pick.
So they treated both their customers and their employees badly, the most important assets any company has - and then ignored both in order to buy failing companies they knew nothing about. It's been done before, and usually a recipe for disaster.
Local dealer here was required to pay $25,000 year just to carry the line, but they couldn’t get the guitars their customers wanted, only what Gibson was willing to send, so the guitars gathered dust. The dealer dropped the brand, I couldn’t buy the Gibson I wanted. I lose, but Gibson really loses. If I can’t test drive a high dollar guitar, I am not going to buy it blindly.
I have a Vietnamese made LTD Eclipse. The fretwork is absolutely amazing, and it plays better than any les Paul I've ever laid my hands on. Why would I spend over $3000 on a guitar when I could but something as good or better for $500? Gibson prices make no sense at all, considering its the Asian factories that are putting in the effort required to make consistent and high quality instruments.
Sean Molin. Photographer extraordinaire and Guitar aficionado. Now, if we could get you on the Trump train, you'd be a triple threat! Hahaha.
Gibson has gone down hill since the 90's. The price versus quality has suffered so dang much. Don't get me wrong, I love the older Les Pauls, but I recently bought two Strats for half of what I would pay for a lower level Les Paul.
Until they can get their quality to reflect their pricing or their pricing to reflect their quality, I don't expect them to be around for the next 20 years.
You know, I've mentioned Fender so much in my comments here, that I'd like to actually suggest Fender as another musical instrument manufacturer to profile on this channel. Their corporate history (particularly their humble beginnings and explosive growth in the '50s, and their disastrous period under CBS ownership) is not only a fascinating case study, but has also acquired mythical status among musicians. Leo Fender's inspirational story belongs up there with other paradigm-shifting tech tinkerers like Steve Jobs and Mark Zuckerberg...as well as one of his own contemporaries, one Robert A. Moog...
And so how about the tale of another innovative musical company, one that was in fact under the same corporate parent as Gibson for a time. Moog Music, the originator of the modern electronic synthesizer and the catalyst for the entire electronic music genre, started out and evolved very similarly to Fender, and for that matter Apple--originally a labor of love for a brilliant tech geek who unwittingly invented an entirely new market segment; a spectacular rise thanks to excellent product design and a few high-profile early adopters; clueless corporate ownership; loss of focus and quality; spent a decade far out of step with the times, trampled by new competitors and newer technology, defunct, forgotten and unloved; reestablished in a world that had finally caught up with its original vision; and finally bounced back with a vengeance, stronger than ever.
Both of these legendary players in the musical instrument industry would be great candidates for the Company Man treatment. Please consider them.
I'm a musician, I play a 6 year old epiphone every day, so what happened was they thought their name was worth more than it was, and their qc went downhill. If they would've stuck under the $2k range they would've been fine.
I see no reason to buy a Gibson. I'd sooner just buy a custom guitar at those prices.
Epis are a better value than Gibsons.
I switched to gretch 15 years ago it seems every Gibson starting price is 2499.99
paytontech yeah true
It's sad what you get for $2500 from Gibson these days. They don't pay attention to detail. Everything is made with a CNC or router, then slapped together buy a disgruntled employee. A Les Paul standard is basically a $700 guitar if it weren't for the nitro finish and binding.
Carlos Matos EXACTLY! You're better off looking for a Les Paul Standard from the early 2000's used. That's what I did back in 2010.
gibson is f expensive.
Fenders are expensive just as much.
paradisegunshot Fenders are better built instruments in my opinion. Sadly though the best built guitars are ones built by companies like Ibanez, Jackson, Carvin, Schecter, and, ESP but we're used to seeing Gibson and Fender so that's what we end up buying.
I personally bought a Woodstock standard Strat, it's basically a Fender's Mexican but hand made in Ukraine with better overall quality.
Objectively wrong paradisegunshot; USA Fenders are in the $1k-1200 range while Gibson LP Standard is typically over 5k
CorvetteCoonass Jacksons are Fenders with a different headstock
I never understood why a company always has to be growing, and if it stops growing, it fails. Why not just scale down and keep on gettin'?
Because 'murica
This is what happens when you go public. Shareholders care about one thing.
Because inflation, interest you pay on loans and rising salaris will catch up on you.
@@taunokekkonen5733 So, for 494 years, Beretta has never gone through a period where they weren't growing? There are corporations that have existed since the year 1000. Are you telling me none of these companies have experienced anything but growth? Just because YOU don't know how to turn a profit without growing doesn't mean it's impossible.
@@sambolino44 not looking at the stats, but I wager that Beretta has more profit and revenue today than 1000 years ago. You do need to grow in the long run, especially if you are publicly listed. Even if you are a family business and want to just keep a job for you and the missus, you will be slowly eaten away by inflation and rising cost of raw materials. Growth is the backbone of investments; why would I invest in a company and get the same amount back in 5 years, when it's worth less? Or how can the company keep giving out dividends yearly if their revenue stays flat?
I think the decline was mainly contributed to by a decline in quality. There are countless problems with Gibson guitars, especially with those made in roughly 2016-2018. They don't stay in tune, the high frets aren't polished, the neck joint cracks on double-cuts and so on. There are just not many people willing to pay $1.5k for a guitar that plays like one that costs $300 just because it has a Gibson logo.
If you want to make money as a 'music lifestyle' just put together some trashy headphones, slap a music star's logo on the side and sell them for $200 or os.
One of Gibson's problems is that they have no decent products for people who have $600.00- $800.00 to spend on a guitar. I can buy a Fender, or a PRS or a Gretch, Ibanez, Martin etc and get a guitar that isn't an embarrassment to show people. And plays well after a basic set up. What does Gibson have for me? Nothing. They have Epiphone, which some of their guitars are decent, but they are not Gibson's. Fender was smart enough to begin to make lower priced guitars that are still Fenders. Quality control has been a huge issue also, ask any luthier about that. You shouldn't have to spend over $2,000.00 for a decent guitar, and at that price point, I am buying a RIC. The other was trying to run a business they know nothing about.
Exactly! Unless you want to play the kid's model
It is interesting that Company Man didn't mention the Gibson factory was flooded. That was a huge deal. After the flood, Gibson stopped making banjos. Tragic.
As someone who's been playing guitar since 1991, I'm going to go ahead and make at least one comment here before even watching this. While these days, I can definitely appreciate Gibson guitars for what they are, when I was first starting out all I saw were excessively-priced guitars whose clean tone still sounded distorted, and I hated that. I was never particularly happy with the people who played either Gibsons or Fenders, either, as the ones I knew tended to be kind of snooty about their guitars and what the guitar brands meant as status symbols, and guitar shops that sold Gibsons and Fenders in my area tended to not sell anything BUT Gibsons and Fenders. As someone who was attracted more the versatility and tone companies like Ibanez were putting out, that meant I constantly found myself in shops that didn't sell Gibson guitars at all, and I was fine with that. So, while I can't speak to what others think about Gibson, I can tell you from a unique perspective what I, specifically, was thinking.
1963 here,
Harley and gibson are in the same boat...branding oneself as a "lifestyle" may often exclude the very people that got them to the dance. While i own both brands,i certainly do not buy into some "lifestyle"...gibson needs to concentrate on its product and getting it into the hands of potential players and not some damn "lifestyle"...
Sort of true. They both are inferior brands, but they both work as advertised and come with a lot of personality. I'll buy gibsons all day long, but I'd never buy a harley.
The same thing happen in the 80's , remember Rolling Stone said the guitar was dead in that decade ! Young people will outgrow current fads in music , remember guys nothing turns girls on more than a man that can use his hands to make music !
In a time of oversharing and uber-exploitation the image of a certain "lifestyle" means more to people. Sad, really.
Yes HD and Gibson have some of the same issues that they can do nothing about except figure out how to adjust. Fewer people are riding motorcycles, less and less kids grow up riding and have little interest buying a bike when they get in their 20’s. When they do buy bikes they are leaning towards bikes with better suspension, brakes and more power. The HD ‘mystique’ is lost on them to a large extent. But make no mistake the motorcycle industry as a whole is feeling it. HD also has the issue with folks ‘aging out’, those who have the money and like HD are getting older and simply stop riding for health, safety whatever reasons.
Well stated.
Option 1: Bankruptcy
Keep in mind, the B word doesn’t always mean the company dissolves. Especially a biz with viable product lines like Gibson. It’s more likely a bankruptcy would result in a restructuring of debt-creditors would huddle together with Gibson lawyers/accountants and make a plan to basically issue new debt to pay off the old, perhaps taking a “haircut,” by forgiving a percentage of the old debt in order to draw a higher percentage return on the new bonds.
The bond holders might demand operational concessions, too. It’s not nice, but reducing costs through layoffs, salary cuts, and even closing whole divisions is sometimes a path to making the company long term viable again.
And number 3 “Selling companies” can be part of a restructuring bankruptcy plan as well-a way to stave off the total liquidation scenario.
Not gonna work that way. I agree Gibson will survive, but the current owners will not be part of it. New owners will be debtholders and secured creditors; all others get flushed. They will eventually sell to a new investor group (and probably keep a piece of Gibson), who will make money making Gibsons without the horrendous debt structure.
@Justin - Gibson recently screwed a lot of people by shutting down SONAR. And, a lot of SONAR owners and myself had bought SONAR's "lifetime" updates. They neglected to tell us "their lifetime" would soon be ending.
Agree. There will be a Gibson, just not one with Henry. The most valuable thing Gibson owns is the name and patents. Highest bidder will get those. It might be someone who wants to make great artisanal guitars, it might be a Far East manufacturer looking to sell a lot of genuine $400 Les Pauls, or maybe Paul Reed Smith buys it (doubt it, but not impossible). But the company itself is gone. Who is going to help refinance $500M in debt on a company in a declining industry with current annual revenues of $1.25B and shrinking? No one.
Now, if someone with pockets and resources can get the rights to make actual (as in actually legally branded) 335's and Les Pauls, and sees a way to money, then yeah.
This well focused video has a modest tone. Gibson lost focus when they took on an egotistic tone. As a professional musician Gibson is the name of a company that changed my life. I have instruments that were made by Orville Gibson in the early part of the 20th century. It's very sad to see that the name Gibson on products that won't be around in 5 years.
One of the other reasons not mentioned is the cottage industry that has blossomed over the last few years of independent, small output custom guitar makers who've been popping up all over the country. You can now get a one of a kind, custom made guitar (acoustic or electric) which can be constructed to your own specifications at a reasonable price. And that is like catnip to guitar players. lol.
As a little kid, I always dreamed of owning a yellow Gibson Flying V.
The writing was on the wall when they left Kalamazoo.
Mediocre instruments made largely by machines with less than stellar tolerances sold for astronomic prices. Also more and more players are going to get custom made instruments because you actually get a MUCH.better instrument for a more reasonable price that is actually built by a human.
You should watch a video of the gibson factories. Then maybe you'll have a clue what the fuck you are talking about.
Agreed. I can buy a Tom Anderson, John Suhr or Wood library PRS for thousands less than a high end Gibson.
Or a really great “made in Asia” PRS SE that’s far better (IMHO) than an Epiphone or low end Gibson.
Their quality / quality control / price for perceived quality are out of line with their markets.
Also, to address the decline of guitar manufacturering - all the guitars made over the last 60 years are still around - I’d buy a quality used guitar over a new one, most days of the week. Woods are better, finish quality is better, mojo is possible, and a ~$100 trip to a luthier will replace failing components like pots, switches and sockets.
every company uses machines you stupid fuck. the human part is assembling the pieces (frets, pickups, hardware, putting the neck on if it's a set neck or bolt on, or gluing the pieces of wood together, and painting the instrument.) and then setting it up and whatnot.
ChristopherBolte handmade guitars do not mean better. If rather have a CMC cut guitar rather than a handmade one
Gibson doesn’t always make good guitars either.
I would love to see a video about Martin Guitar. They are the oldest musical instrument maker and the oldest family-owned business in America, and it would be great to see an overview of their ups and downs.
A friend of mine worked at the Gibson guitar factory and learned about a strange policy they have. Most instrument makers, if there is a slight cosmetic blemish on a newly manufactured instrument, will sell it as "B stock" for a slightly reduced price, so a professional trumpet normally worth $2100 might be listed for $1950 instead. Still a perfectly great instrument, but won't look perfect. Gibson refused to do this. Any blemish, even a purely cosmetic one, and the guitar was destroyed. These are professional guitars that sell for a few thousand dollars! Seems like a waste of money.
Man, it's obvious that fender has the spot for most iconic
Fargoth Bosmer even the guitar emoji used by Apple is a Fender Strat! 🎸
They in my opinion milked the name for all it was worth, now every thing has dried up yep the times they are a changing
Gibson should've scaled down and focused on making great guitars.. Stick to what you're good at, what you know.
This is not how capitalism work. Enterprises can only scale up, or they disappear. Especially when debt is involved.
We are going to see that with the USA in a short time now.
Maybe if they stopped sticking to some really bad choices because of those being *traditional* (i.e. headstock angle or tuners placement) their guitars would sell better.
Watched a guy rebuild a Gibson LP. After he stripped it down there were cracks in the body. He was sure it came from the factory that way. It had other problems too. He finished it and it sounded good but to have to do that to a Gibson LP? Sad.
For one thing, doing totally stupid things like putting fingerboards on a $4000 Gibson Les Paul Custom that are made out of PLASTIC (Gibson calls it "Richlite", as if nobody could figure out that it's plastic, if they don't CALL it plastic) isn't helping....and then totally destroying the Les Paul line with locking tuners, automated "robotic" tuners, all this is killing them....if you're not smart enough to know how to tune a guitar, you probably don't need to be spending $2500 on one....
Really? Damn I just assumed Gibson always installed an ebony fretboard on their guitars. I wonder why. Maybe ebony is getting scarce like rosewood is. I hear most rosewood nowadays comes from Africa, because Brazilian rosewood is very scarce.
Gibson has always used both ebony and rosewood, neither of which are terribly hard to come by, it's just that the most desirable jet black non-figured ebony has been harvested at this point. That's why you see companies like Taylor pushing to make normal ebony (with some streaks and visible grain) more common and accepted on guitars.
Like you say, Brazilian rosewood has been a no-go for large scale manufacturing for some time now, but there's no shortage of Indian rosewood, and there are loads of other species that work just as well from all around the globe. Mexican rosewood, Honduran rosewood, the list just goes on. Rosewood won't be a problem anytime soon as long as we're not too hung up on where it comes from.
@Kaptain Kid if the players don't like it. They buy it. And thst IS what's happening.
If you are a guitarist you know why...The quality of their guitars are poor. Using robotic tuners, circuit boards on their guitars. They have no clue what the average guitarist wants or needs.
Agreed, I've owned 3 guitars from Gibson over the years. All left-handers, one SG, one Les Paul Custom and one Les Paul Studio. The Les Paul Custom was fabulous but it was from the 70's and the sheer weight of it did my back in so eventually it got sold of. The Studio is from the last few years and is ok but that's as far as I'll go. If I buy any more guitars (I doubt it at that this point in my life as I have 6 or so which enough for any sane person) I'll be looking at other companies as the Gibsons I've tried in-store are quite awful on the whole and the best sounding guitar I've tried this years is a Fender Squier Classic Vibe. I'm not overly impressed by Fender's American guitars either, I find their Japanese output to be far more consistently well made.
Mhm why fender is still #1
Because it diversified more, also it has some very, very affordable products out there. It also got less involved in recent years with doing silly things like sticking robot tuners on guitars or stuff like that. Having said even Fender's sales have declined in recent years. I own guitars by both, I have no particular brand loyalty and would buy a guitar from any company if I felt it was well made and played well. One of my own personal guitars which is a favourite is a beaten up Telecaster copy which I bought for next to nothing and tidied up a bit. Gibson's debt level is apparently really ludicrous at this point, I can't see them disappearing considering the way they are tied up with the history of popular music. I could see them downsizing or been bought out and restructured by some other company and either becoming more of a boutique brand than they are now or undergoing the same process that made a mess of much of Fender's output when it changed hands many years ago.
Buck Dharma, Eric Bloom, Allen Lanier and for some of the best jams ever, Albert and Joe Bouchard during Blue Oyster Cult's 5 Guitars. The irony being the drummer and bassist were guitar players all along! 5 Les Paul's tearing it up, never a dull show when BOC came to town.
They went to hell after leaving Kalamazoo.
true so true
hertiage is in old gibson plant. never herd about the quality.hard to find .with old gibson employes.owning it.
Can't say I'm suprised. Looked at a few Les Pauls today at a guitar store. A 2018 Les Paul Custom was selling for $2500. The fret job was pathetic, bits of plastic binding hanging off the end, and a sloppy paint job. I didn't want to believe the Gibson trash talking of late, but their QC has truly become the worst in the industry.
No offense, but I find it funny how you saw guitar that cost $6,000 for $2,500. If you were truly looking at a Les Paul Custom, they are almost always flawless in their finish and details. Let stay on point here.
woperholic every LP I have seen lately has a buckled pickup surround at the neck. (Between the pup and fingerboard). I have also seen where you could take your fingernail and pop out an inlay or two and I don’t mean pry. Big gap, no glue. Shit my 74 Les Paul was just like that. Way overpriced for what you get. Long gone are the days of the true luthiers working for Gibby. Then again, I don’t care who worked on it or what wood it used, even if I was crazy rich I would never give $250k+ for a 59 LP. I was just at NAMM and I purchased an Aristides 060. They are custom made to spec and will blow any Gibson out of the water in sound and craftsmanship. I’m cheap and only buy used guitars now but damn, I ponied up for that new 060. Should be here around August. Yeah, they are that good.
The quality of Gibson guitars has declined bad enough that I won't buy one. I think the Epiphone brand sounds and plays well, but shelling out 3k-4k for a Gibson Les Paul that looks great but plays crappy isn't in my future.
You can get an American Stratocaster for around $1000 vs a Gibson LP starting at $2500, and I prefer playing on a strat, the neck is finished off much nicer than the neck on an LP.. bought an LP and loved the sound, but hated playing it..and too heavy too
I was a dedicated Gibson user and still have my 1962 Les Paul SG custom, but as Gibson prices went up some Japanese companies made exceptional copies of popular guitars and were very well made I bought some and replaced the pickups with 60's era Gibson humbuckers and Gibson parts from pawnsops, Grover tuners, Gibson Bridges w metal saddles & TP6 fine tuning Tailpieces, I modded the electronics and used these Guitars instead of putting wear and tear on my original Gibsons, My LP copiy sounded like anything from a Danelectro, Telecaster, Strat or a Rick at the twist of a knob. without any extra holes or switches on the guitar body and still retain the full humbucker performance when needed. All 4 of the knobs interacted together passively to modify the sound and tone to what type of guitar I wanted to emulate. My friends dubbed them Excalibur. I still have one as a keepsake,
That's what I do too John, wood is wood, so I buy Asian copies at a 10th the price and then replace the P/Us and electronics. I don't always go Gibson, I may use Seymour Duncans for example
@@onlyforbrian2 Weakling
I've always thought Gibson's were some of the most beautiful guitars.
Pity they’re a shit two faced company
just get a prs as your humbucker guitar
@@RUARI-mi1yt prs guitars are ugly tho.
@@averagecomrade5072 atleast they function probably
@@RUARI-mi1yt so does gibson
The Gibson Guitar Factory in Memphis was shut down a while ago because it was found that the store was trafficking exotic woods, which is illegal. I know that this made national news and I wonder how this fits in their company narrative.
Good synopsis. Their guitar prices keep climbing while the quality keeps dropping. The Les Paul is a great example. I can't speak for how they manage other companies they've acquired but as a guitar player with 35 years experience, I can confidently say that their guitars are no longer worth the expense. They used to be. They were pricey but the quality could be counted on. No more.
Jason Desjardins true that, I had 3k to put on a new LP, I went tru 3-4 stores trying them, and not one turned me on. I ended up buying an old 2000 standard LP cant be happier. :)
The lack of representation of electric guitars in pop music and the media doesn't help.
I agree with you about 98%, I've be in the retail, wholesale, and manufacturing of musical instruments since the mid 70's. I'm also a collector of Gibson, and Fender guitars and have been for over 40 years. What I would like to add is that the actual physical number of guitars really hasn't dropped that much. What has happened is that the younger consumer has so many choices today and that includes Chinese guitars. When I was young and starting out in the 60's, the "cheap" guitars came out of Japan. The quality was horrible but affordable. When the Chinese started building guitars, they too were horrendous. That's changing though. Today, all of your major American guitar companies utilize CNC machines. We all love the image of "The Keebler Elves" building our guitars. Taylor and Fender both produce over 500 instruments A DAY!!! Because of the CNC machines, the workmanship is really good. Keep in mind, most of these CNC machines are made in China. That being said, the Chinese have them also. I've been in some of the Chinese factories and their CNC tolerances are every bit as tight as ours. The same thing is true for Indonesia. Their overall quality is getting better and better and the prices are so much cheaper than most of the "Made in the USA" guitars. Gibson will tell you that they make more ROI on their Epiphone brand than they do on their Gibson brand. The physical numbers are larger also. The reality is that the imports are much better than they used to be, yet relatively still affordable. Additionally, so many times when you watch a band on TV today, it's not uncommon you see a major act playing an imported from China guitar or an Indonesian bass. Generally, speaking the instruments cost about a quarter or half of a nice American branded instrument. Again, my point is that the actual unit numbers aren't really down that much. What's happening is that a lot of your imports are getting really good, yet they're still relatively cheap considering the quality. Todays buyers aren't nearly stuck on the Gibson/Fender/Martin names as they used to be. I saw and played a Chinese made Eastman acoustic guitar about a month ago. This is hard to even type this, but it was hard to fault (gulp!). Tone, fit, finish, tone, fret work, and overall quality was there. The MAP was $995.00. A same spec'd Martin would have cost 3 to 4 times as much. Money no object, I would buy the Martin hands down. BUT, the Eastman was about a quarter of the price and the quality was "scary" good especially at $3000.00 less.
^ Im with ya on what you said. The China and Indonesian build quality has gotten so good. They make buying a Gibson a scary proposition, because i think there are guitars being made overseas that are every bit as good if not better and we just need to accept this. Years ago this was NOT the case, but id say in the past 5-10 years its been amazing to see some of these guitars they build. Take PRS with their SE models, those are amazing looking and playing and sounding guitars for under $1000 average and they say PRS on the headstock. That in itself is selling these guitars, they dont say Epiphone, they say PRS.
The question isn't the decline of a brand but the decline of icons = that make consumers want to buy that product?