PREDATOR 4K UHD REVIEW & HOME MOVIE HISTORY
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- Опубликовано: 28 июл 2022
- The classic 1987 action thriller directed by John McTiernan and starring Arnold Schwarzenegger. The 4K transfer was carried out in 2018 but owing to so many requests for me to take a look at it I've finally done so despite owning the legendary Super 8 print released by Derann Film Services in 1991. In this video we not only take a look at the 4K but also the Super 8, the VHS tape and the DVD. This is a history of Predator on the home movie market.
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Underrated aspect of this film is the sound effects and design, particularly the shoulder cannon our protagonist uses. The sound of the laser targeting system primes you, then the beeping, then the target being blasted. Scene near end where he just starts wildly shooting in frustration was a nice touch by McTiernan, lighting up the rainforest at night.
Good points there. The sound is haunting and a big reason for the film's success. One of many reasons though it has to be said. Predator came together so perfectly and all the elements that went into it helped to make it the timeless classic that it is. John.
The Predators semi-invisibility cloaking device effect is still quite magnificent even after 35 years, the way its a kind of shimmering, opaque, surreal, hypnotic, dreamlike, mesmerising combination of psychedelic colour and stark black and white, it must be one of the most famous and memorable special effects ever created.
That's a darned good summary there Barry. I wish you'd have sent me those words while I was writing my notes on what to say once the camera was on!!! Apparently the effect was achieved by a man wearing a red suit as it was the starkest contrast to the green of the jungle and the blue of the sky.
John.
Legend has it when Jean-Claude Van Damme was originally cast to play the Predator he thought the red suit was the creature.
@@ronmexico6901 Not surprising really, Van Damme always was a bit of a silly bastard (like most Belgians, strickly speaking).
@@ronmexico6901 I always thought that Van Damme was there to do some of the high kicks and things like that but he managed to sell himself on the basis of having been the Predator to get his next film. John.
Actually watched Predator on 4K disc last week in prep for the new movie Prey. Absolute masterpiece / concept of genre filmmaking. The way the story unfolds, the team work together and then the eventual Arnie vs Predator all hold up. Such a brilliant soundtrack, with brilliant moments of sound design and clever use of explosions/set pieces.
Wow. I even think Predator 2 has some redeeming qualities, especially the concept of hunting gangs in the urban jungle.
And of course - so many quotable / memorable sequences. When Mac realises his friend has been killed and the Predator flashes it’s eyes, the following sequence is sooooo satisfying for different reasons.
I think Predator would have made a real impact were it not for the fact that we all knew the original film. It lost a lot because we already knew the camouflage capabilities of the Predator. But I liked it nevertheless. Don't know if I've actually seen it since it was first released though.
John.
Predator 2 is underrated imo. I remember being so disappointed that Arnie wasn’t going to be in it, but I ended up enjoying it a lot. Great roles played by Danny Glover & Gary Busey.
@@TheEthNick I remember that I thought Danny Glover was pretty terrific in it. It wouldn't have been as good with Arnie in the role. But that may be why it's not got much of a following because I didn't think there was anything much wrong with the film. Need to watch it again though.
John.
I think Predator2's second half is really good.
@@fracmental5166 I remember enjoying it all back in 1992 but I think you're right about the second half in particular. John.
Great video John. I’m amazed they haven’t released either Aliens or The Terminator on 4K yet. Mind boggling.
Apparently Aliens was ready to go when Fox got taken over by Disney. The Terminator might be wrapped up in rights issues but I don't know. It was released full length on Super 8 back in 1991 in Derann's first batch of titles from their deal with Orion but of course, they went bust soon after. Could that be part of the problem today? The Super 8 print is a beauty by the way so there's no need for a 4K release!!!
John.
Looks great on my 4K OLED, really cleaned up and the dark scenes are a lot better. My last memory of it was probably VHS. I'm not really bothered by grain, but I'm not young either.
It looks good on both my systems but the television certainly disguises a lot of the grain simply because the image is so much smaller. No complaints from me though, I just needed to talk about the coarse grain nature of much of it because this was a review of the 4K and some people will buy it based on what I say and they wouldn't be happy with me if I didn't mention anything they may be disappointed with.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 Great review, just say it as you see it. As you say you need to cover all types of viewing. I enjoy the parts about 8mm, I was young in the VHS generation and even that was expensive at the time. The quality you can get more for the money is fantastic, loving all these restored older films now in 4K. The Ten Commandments was amazing for its age.
Great review - real nice to see the Super 8 and the VHS included in the review. As you say, it is amazing how far the quality has come for home viewing. I was really pleased with how the Predator 4K turned out after the disaster with the previous Blu. I bought the boxset rather than the single disc, Predator 2 is also a very good upgrade
I haven't seen Predator 2 in years, possibly since I saw it at the cinema. I liked it but it was hobbled because we all already knew the capabilities of a Predator. Were I to have seen it first I think I'd have liked it a lot more than I already did. I don't know if I'll ever run this 4K disc again though because I can see that I'm probably always going to prefer the wonder of that amazing Super 8 feature. But I did enjoy making this video and that was why I got the 4K in the end, because I thought it would make for an interesting RUclips upload.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 That it did - I’m sure many like myself would love to have the opportunity to own those prints and the equipment and space to be able to have them as a viable option.
@@RetroReels I was going to reply to say that it's never too late but sadly now it's not really viable because film is so expensive. It always was but it's almost out of reach now.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 It’s not just the cost/ availability , a lot of people simply don’t have the room (or the patience!) to deal with running it properly. Hopefully people won’t be saying the same about disc formats in years to come, but I feel it’s inevitable.
@@RetroReels I think that's already happening. World Economic Forum ambitions are for us not to own anything... but we'll all be happier apparently. Nuts!
Fantastic review! I just love these comparisons to older media (Super-8, LaserDisc, even VHS). Never had the chance to own a full-length print of any movie, so I hope you will also talk about S8 digests in future videos of classic films. Looking forward to the "Star Wars" review. Great channel!
I've only kept the one 'selected scenes' edition of Star Wars and I did show that in the first ever RUclips video on this Movie Collector channel so maybe if you didn't see that it will be worth a look. That was for 'The Rise of Skywalker' and I also showed the Super 8 feature, the original LaserVision release and probably a load of other things I've now forgotten. But I plan to dig out all sorts of other Star Wars releases for the Star Wars 4K review such as the last VHS release and the Special Edition LaserDisc from 1997.
I do want to find an excuse to show some Super 8 cut down boxes from films such as Rabid and Squirm as quite a few RUclipsrs seem to love schlock like that but probably have no idea that these films had their first home movie appearance on Super 8.
John.
This is what makes your channel different, I always learn more about how film is made so I end up appreciating the process and end result more. Just popped into HMV and picked up a copy. Will watch before I watch Prey which appears to be very good and a worthy film in the series. Nice one John. 👍
You'll have to let me know about Prey James because I'll only risk going near it if enough people tell me it's actually rather good. I enjoyed Predator 2 but didn't ever see the remake or any other sequels as sometimes terrible follow-ups can destroy an original film and I didn't want to risk that with such a great treasure as Predator. John.
@@moviecollector5920 Well Alien vs Predator was quite good in my humble opinion...maybe check it out on Disney plus lol in 4k
@@newcamnoddy I did see a bit of one of the Alien vs. Predator films but they don't appeal. Spoiling Alien is the big fear with all the sequels but the Alien vs. Predator films risk the possibility of spoiling two great films. John.
this was the first Hollywood movie my father got me on VHS other than regional movies...so amazing you to include Super 8 and the VHS in this review...that VHS brought me some nostalgia...
I actually fancy sticking that VHS on Rahul. I do still run VHS occasionally as I have some titles that I don't have on disc or film and it can be surprising how they look at times... some are truly awful and some are not so awful!
John.
The 4K transfer is fantastic. Grain is certainly has (doesn’t bother me in the slightest) and detail looks phenomenal on OLED. Nice video on the history of the releases, must be amazing to see it on Super 8.
Super 8 was always special. It's only about the last 16 or 17 years that home video and video projection has come up to the mark and finally surpassed what was possible with Super 8. From a young child it meant I could play at cinema at home but my father wouldn't let me near the equipment until my teens. Predator on Super 8 is one of the best ever quality releases but there were quite a few that were just as impressive from that period. The interesting thing is that the film grain appears to be finer on Super 8 than the scan of the original camera negative onto the 4K. This does seem to confirm the scanning process exacerbating the appearance of grain.
John.
Excellent review. It’s one of my all time favourite Action SciFi films and I’ve owned a home release in various formats over the years.
A few years ago a friend and myself watched it at a local cinema (not sure if it was a digital projection or not… I suspect it was digital however) and it was excellent to see it on the big screen. It was also enjoyable to watch it with other fans of the film and there were loads of cheers and laughter at the one liners etc.
I visited the new HMV last week and picked up the three film boxset of Predator, Predator 2 & Predators on 4K. I’ve only watched Predator 2 which wasn’t really a looker apart from one or two shots which looked excellent, the rest was underwhelming.
I look forward to watching Predator soon.
I fancy taking another look at Predator 2 Martin. I should have got the box of three films too but I was tempted by the HMV bargain basement price for Predator which was why I finally decided to take a look at it. Not many cinemas kept their film equipment (idiots!) so I expect you saw a video projection. The funny thing is that a scan of the original camera negative should mean that the resultant projection results in a sharper image on screen but owing to the scanning process any film grain looks coarser and overall the whole natural look of the original film is degraded. A 35mm general release print was from three generations down but retains the more natural look. A master print is from the original camera negative directly I believe so they were just for premiere houses and that's what I always tended to see as I was in the centre of London and walked to Leicester Square or the Odeon Marble Arch.
John.
Loved seeing summary of previous home releases! I think this is something I would definitely like to see for future releases of older movies 🍿
Wait until The Terminator makes an appearance! John.
This is a very informative and insightful video. Excellent work. Thank you. Subscribed 👍🏽
Good to have you here. It was nice to revisit Predator again and a good excuse to give that precious Super 8 print another screening. What a treasure that one is. John.
I would have been 10-11 when this premiered. We grew up on a 165 acre cattle farm, so we spent a ton of time in the woods. I can't lie...after watching Predator, we spent a little extra time looking over our shoulders when we walked in the woods, just in case any indication of cloaking technology was around! After the disaster that was the DNRed to death Ultimate Predator Edition, this 4K/UHD was a welcome relief!
Yes, that Blu-ray was horrible but it was taken from the master for the 3D abomination so you can't blame the people responsible for thinking they could earn a little extra from it. I think they were rather stupid to do that but to be fair, it's just a job and most in the film industry don't seem to understand much about the importance of quality and presentation - which is why cinema is in terminal decline as far as I'm concerned. John.
I went to see this in theaters back in 1987 and I instantly loved this movie///another great 1987 movie of Arnold's was the running man
I too really like The Running Man and have that one on VHS too. Apparently the German 4K release of The Running Man is reckoned to be rather good. John.
My dad used to love this film which was surprising because he wasn’t normally a fan of these genre of films. Great in depth review again John!👍🏻
If ol' dad liked Predator Danny then there should have been a whole raft of films from that era that he liked because there were so many good 'uns. Maybe Predator has that something extra special that connected with him. John.
@@moviecollector5920 I always had a soft spot for Commando, different genre of film but it was like comfort food 😂
@@danboy77 Now that was one action film that I didn't like at the time but for years now i wish I'd snapped up one of the copies on Super 8. Oh well, you can't win 'em all.
John, honestly mate your hard work in these videos really shows. Outstanding and informative video yet again thank you Sir.
Good to know you spotted the work that went in Lee. About 15 or 16 hours I think. But you only get one chance to review a film and this one was Predator. John.
I find myself watching the 3d version most these days. Rather envious of your Super 8 copy. Great video again chap. 💪
Quite unbelievable that they would turn Predator into 3D Paul. Good grief! Still, if it brings more money in then that's a good thing as it helps other productions to get made The previous post has told us that they're even looking to re-release Jaws in 3D soon which you might enjioy. John.
Another great video John. I've got Predator on Blu-ray in a cheap box set with the first 2 sequels. It has the first film in 2D and 3D. I had it years ago on PAL laserdisc. I wasn't a fan at first but it's grown on me over the years.
Fancy getting rid of that LaserDisc Steve. Dear oh dear!
I love your videos, your delivery and mannerisms remind me of Barry Norman. Predator is one of my favourite films, combining multiple genres seamlessly, excellent pacing, atmosphere, action, tension.
In most cases I'd say I'm a purist about keeping the picture as authentic as possible. But I'm really not bothered by the noise reduction on the bluray, but I see why fans have issues with it.
I think the image noise reduction was taken a bit too far but I expect some will actually prefer it. I actually like to see film grain as it lets us know we're watching something that not only took more skill to create but looks more natural. Having said that, there have been a few movies shot on video that look just as good as film so it can be done.
Predator is a great film, there's no question about it. Strange then that some critics in 1987 didn't see it that way. How on earth can so many of them get things so wrong so often but still get taken seriously?
John.
Great video! It might of been mentioned in the comments so apologies if it has already but its suggested that the Blu-ray that was released that used DNR used a master that was being prepped for a 3D conversion.
Only two or three people have mentioned that possibility up to now Robert so I think you've confirmed it. I did suspect that to be the case and it also explains the Terminator 2: Judgment Day 4K release with excessive image noise reduction. I haven't seen that T2 disc yet and not sure that I want to now that I've seen what DNR did to Predator. T2 is another film I have on Super 8 so it would make for another interesting video sometime.
John.
I have the 3D version of Predator it came inside a Predator bust that I must show on my channel one day.
A "clean" image such as they did, does make sense for a 3D release. Though I've always noticed, with a correctly set up video image Predator looks very 3 Dimensional anyway. Lots of depth to the picture. Helped largely by the jungle and the panning shots.
Trevor
@@doublebillmovies Is that the same 'bust' as Keith at Euphoria has Trevor?
@@moviecollector5920 You'll have to find out John 😉😁
Another great review John. Was great to see the VHS cover again since my youth - living off my father's extensive video collection and exposed to all sorts of action and horror from the 80s and 90s!
I just had to pick up a copy of this, one of Arnie's best. Absolutely timeless. Looks great in some parts, not so great in others. But nevertheless, it's one to go back to time and time again over the years for pure testosterone-filled action entertainment and classic one-liners!
And the score in addition to all of that. If I'd have thought about what I was going to say for even longer than I did I think I'd have waffled on for about half an hour so it's probably just as well I kept my notes to a minimum for this one. A masterpiece of its era that still looks good today and probably will for many years to come.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 Alan Silvestri, the score is phenomenal. Got it stuck in my head right now!! I will need to source the sequel from abroad as I find it rather underrated. It's a tough one to follow on from of course, but I think Glover and Co really pull it off bringing the Predator into the urban arena.
Going off the documentary this was a nightmare of a shoot from beginng to end, Van Damme originally caused problems on set before been replaced by Kevin Peter Hall to play the Predator, near all cast members suffered heat exhaustion or became sick from swimming in the water (esp Arnold re shoots) and to top it all off they had a big tropical storm that destroyed half of the equipment so there's inconsistencies on how the film looks due to different equipment having to be flown in which resulted in a halted production with various cast members wanting to walk, so I would say this film can never look as good as it does here on this 4k!. Great review John.
Thanks Ethan. I did watch all those documentaries on the DVD when it came out but haven't seen them since so don't remember anything of them. Good job you do! I do need to run the Super 8 print all the way through again just to get a better handle on how much finer the grain structure is on it than the 4K but it's that fine grain look of the Super 8 that does seem to confirm the scanning process for the 4K has cause the coarse look.
John.
I really enjoy your vids, the look back on the movie’s release and up to where it is today. Now, I just have to find time to watch Predator again…
I fancy having a bit of a look at that old VHS now but I have a feeling the Super 8 is going to get another screening soon too. What a film. I don't need much of an excuse to ever watch Predator. John.
Great review Mr John 👍, I remember I asked about the Predator 4K and the Predator Ultimate Hunter Edition Bluray in your review of the Ten Commandments 4K, I bought this exact same copy of the Predator 4K Steelbook last year... nice to see your collection of VHS, Super 8 of Predator 👍🏆
You may have been the first to suggest I take a look at the 4K of Predator Krishna but it took me a while and quite a few other subscribers making the same suggestion. In the end I thought it would make for an interesting video so as much as I'm unlikely to ever run that 4K disc again it was a lot of fun going through it and running the Super 8 print again too. I feel like sticking that Super 8 on again but I might have to take a look at the VHS first though.
John.
Hi John! Love Predator and great to be here. I have to time travel a bit to catch up as you've got some reviews up i've missed. Grain for me isn't too much a problem as I love the cinematic feel at home. Personally for me with Predator in particular it's a sound film. The jungle and the hunt/hunted creepy feel it's important that the sound was improved. For the price I wasn't disappointed with this one. Could be a bit biased as I just love the movie! Kind regards to everyone there and many cheers Dave!
Predator always sounded fabulous Dave but modern home systems are not exactly optimized for the matrixed four channel Dolby Stereo any longer. My own THX system is and apart from Dolby Stereo usually being lower volume than modern digital remixes there isn't often very much to choose between them. It's easy to turn the volume up a little.
John.
Great review John, I love this movie and there is was nothing like seeing this movie for the first time and wondering what it is was. I do have the 4k set but have not watched them yet i will have to get around to it one of these days 😃
Seeing Predator for the first time was an experience, even though it was on that VHS tape. The Predator's first appearance had me wondering what I had just seen and at the end of the film I had to wind back to watch that sequence again. You're going to have to give that 4K a spin soon Paul.
John.
Excellent review. Really appreciate your film knowledge and it is a joy to see your collection of Super 8 prints. I have the 4K of Predator and remember watching it in an empty theatre at the Waterman’s in Brentford for one Pound. I can’t remember if you have reviewed Lawrence of Arabia, but the 4K looks amazing.
One pound to see Predator in a cinema?!? Amazing. I wish I'd have been there with you.
I haven't seen Lawrence of Arabia yet but I think we all know it's got to be one of the best because it was a 65mm shoot for 70mm release and they're always among the best. What I don't know is how good the duplicate negative from 1989 really was as I didn't really study the Blu-ray too closely when I got that years ago. I suspect it will be along the same lines as My Fair Lady which went through a similar process but just like Lawrence had some sections of the negative that couldn't be saved and the restorers had to go to the Technicolor matrices for those damaged sequences.
John.
Such a superb 8mm projector the GS1200 is..so jealous lol.I have a Noris 342 stereo projector which when I bought it was very quiet too...only a 100w light but its been really reliable...great you have this copy from Derann films too !
There are two different Elmo GS1200 machines shown working in this video newcamnoddy; one of the has an HID lamp and the other has the best of all, the HTI lamp. That's the brightest ever image from Super 8 but I do need to source a new lamp for it before the return of the BFCC next year. Well, that's the plan anyway and currently everything seems to be falling into place.
John.
This was another film my girlfriend, at the time, had to drag me to the cinema to see. I knew nothing about it and thought the Predator was going to be Arnie, guns 'n' mayhem and no idea it involved an Alien! Love it when movies completely surprise and blow you away. Haven’t got it on 4K … you’ve persuaded me.
I didn't know anything about Predator when I purchased that VHS soon after it appeared. It was difficult to really see a film for what it was from a VHS but I still thought it looked pretty terrific. I actually got that Super 8 print for £185 after someone had purchased it for £299, evidently didn't like the film and sold it onto a dealer. I'd seen the review print extract at the BFCC in 1991 where it was screened 18 feet wide and I couldn't believe the quality so £185 was peanuts as far as I was concerned. It still looks new to this day despite having gone through multiple projectors multiple times. If video discs had have been available back then in this quality and also if we'd have been able to video project them in this quality then Super 8 wouldn't have remained as the king of home cinema for so long. Funny how things turn out.
John.
I love my new 4K version, certainly the best I've ever seen it look. nice to hear about Predator's home video history in such detail. thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it Mr. Braddock. It was wonderful to get that fabulous Super 8 print out to play again. Those were the days! John.
@@moviecollector5920 that's sounds lovely
Hi John, great video. You have a great collection of Predator. It's a shame the blu ray isn't that good because this film deserves a decent release. I saw this at the cinema back in the day and was amazed by the special effects. All the best.
I don't think a special effect like the Predator in camouflage had ever been achieved or even attempted before Gary. It made an impression on me and I was watching it first on that VHS tape. Apparently there was a good Blu-ray prior to the bad one so it has been available. Shame everyone didn't just buy a Super 8 print then maybe we'd all still be enjoying real film releases to pick and choose from. John.
Another really interesting and unique review John! Now that Red Sonja and Raw Deal have been given 4K releases I'm hoping that Commando, released between those two, will be next for 4K, its one of those 80's action films I can watch over and over again.
Not purchasing Commando on Super 8 when it was available is one of the few regrets I have from all my years of film collecting. I didn't think the film itself was very good but years later I kept thinking about the exceptional picture quality and how I'd like to compare a first run print of it against my Predator print to decide which was actually the best quality. Oh well, you can't win 'em all.
John.
@Movie Collector Predator1 Movie are good movie all the time ever too!
@@dalphinezara7879 I only ever saw Predator 2 Dalphine but I did enjoy it. Didn't ever bother with any of the later sequels. John.
Sadly with Commando being a 20th Century Fox title, unless a 4K was already in the works before Disney bought the studio out. I Don't think we'll ever get a 4K release of Commando.
I really hope I'm proven wrong and Disney decide to start properly working through the 20th back catalogue.
I'm glad though that we have the fully uncut version in the UK now. For years I knew I'd see some extra scenes round the shed shooting part. That was confirmed when they bought a "Directors" cut out.
Trevor
@@doublebillmovies I thought I saw something to say Commando was getting a 4K release but I'm probably wrong. Good to see you on Saturday Trevor. Got back last night and saw your latest upload which was jolly nice to see after a good day together. Today I'll be mainly getting your interview as sorted as possible with the aim of getting that one up for you to look at this evening before it goes live. John.
Great review and trip back in time to the different releases of Predator.
Glad you enjoyed it Kieran. I enjoyed revisiting all things Predator on home movie formats. What a film. John.
Great review John. I found the grain to be slightly distracting in some scenes. Having said that it's still the best it's ever look and worth it for those who enjoy the movie. I'm looking forward to the next review
It might be the scanning process that exacerbated the grain so much because it's not particularly apparent on the Super 8 print. Interesting eh? John.
Great review John 👍, I got the Predator trilogy on 4K early this year and I can't believe it's taken over 30 years to get a great picture as it's been rough on VHS, DVD and Blu-ray and I wish they would get it right the first time. I remember getting predator 1+2 on dvd in 2001 and I ended up getting the German version and it was heavily censored. Plus don't get The French Connection on Blu-ray, I got the 3 disc Blu-ray and it has the worst remaster ever and the first film has the most amount of Grain in a film.
They got Predator spot on for Super 8 Andrew so it's not all been bad up to the 4K. Transferring a film to video does come with difficulties at times and now that scanners are used for the job it makes film grain look far more coarse than it did on the original film. I expect image noise reduction is used a lot more than we realize but used moderately in most cases.
The French Connection was always a gritty, grainy film as I recall. Scanning will exacerbate it of course.
John.
Thanks for the historical & entertaining review.
You're welcome SAINT 65. John.
Top job again John 👍👍👍👍 IV the blu ray and as you pointed out it's dnr'd to bits.....and then IV heard the 4k is excessively grainy.... especially on a very bright led TV......I think il hold out maybe a new scan will be done in a few years 🤞🤞
Only if home video sales continue to improve are we likely to see repeat releases on 4K Roy. I think 4K discs are around 7% of the disc market now so don't hold your breath. It's not excessively grainy as there are movies with coarser grain that this available and no one seems to complain about the grain too much. The Super 8 looks to have a finer grain structure which does appear to indicate the cine transfer via scanning is the cause of much of it on Blu-ray and 4K releases in general which would explain the use of image noise reduction. Where a little is applied it's probably a good thing but take it too far and the look of the film is ruined.
John.
Mate you honestly have the best 8mm collection that I have ever seen. Great collection man.
There are still a few of us around the world who have kept their Super 8 purchases from the days when the gauge was the king of home cinema. The late 1980's through to the early 2000's was the heyday of Super 8 but then towards the latter part of the 2000's home video projection started to overtake the quality achievable with Super 8. Nothing will ever match the excitement of putting on a Super 8 though because that's what I've known for just about all of my life. I'm chomping at the bit to run 'Aliens' on Super 8 again at the moment after all the furore about the 4K UHD release of that one.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 Man those are priceless. I mean for me the ones you have shown looks great. I love 8mm looks its an under rated format imo.. 16mm & 35mm get all the attention.. 16mm late release prices are silly though.. they go for 3 times the amount of 35mm prints & most times they are beat..
@@moviecollector5920 smart move focusing on them.. Because they feel so magical that you will find yourself watching through the years & they aged well. You know what I feel hasn’t aged well over the past few years laserdisc.. and I am a big collector … from Japanese to late release & all sorts of titles .. there are a few really good ones .. the 480’is hard to get past .
I am so jealous of your home cinema set up, the moving curtain especially.
Motorized curtains are easy to do. The top and bottom masking is the most troublesome part and now that I have masks that are ten feet wide the bottom one wants to buckle under its own weight so I might have to redo that when we finally get the cinema room re-done, once we can get builders in to knock the walls about that is. I did show all the motors about six months ago in the cinema under construction videos.
John.
This is as good and elegant as video disc reviews get, John. This review is worthy of a museum exhibition.
I'm glad you like it Erik. I probably put around 15 or 16 hours into it but that doesn't include running the Super 8 feature and getting the shots of that which probably took another hour or two. It's one of those films where I thought that if I'm going to do it I've got to get it right as I'll only get one chance. It will be interesting to see how well it does given everything that went into it.
I've already shot some Super 8 for the Star Wars review but I may take months to get that one fully together.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 I love it. One can tell you put many hours into it - the shots of your projector running the Super 8 take it to another level.
Erik.
@@loekegaard9 One of the reasons I finally started this channel was because I couldn't find anyone else on RUclips who was coming at their video reviews from a history of film and being able to show the various gauges running on film projectors. I thought it would give anything I did something a bit different. Seems to have done the trick so far.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 Yes it surely has.
I also love your professional and knowledgeable presentation in your video reviews. As I've said before, the BBC should offer you a TV program. The only problem is, I suspect, that there aren't enough people in the UK (or in the world for that matter) interested in a TV program reviewing films and video discs from a historical perspective.
Erik.
Thanks another amazingly good review. I appreciate the time you put into your reviews l
It's another video that snowballed once I got into it. Well, you only get one chance to do a review of a title like Predator so you've got to make it count. John.
@@moviecollector5920 and you certainly do that :) i just got my copy of the limited boxset blu ray of waterloo what a set for under £13 i think both hmv and amazon still have it at the reduced price if you fancy it. interested to see what the image is like as its supposed to be a good uplift john..its had some horse falls cut but i can live with that unlike the poor horses.
One of my top Sci-Fi Movies of all time. Saw in the Theater, own it on DVD and BR. I know I will buy it on 4K...thanks for the review.
It's not the best 4K of all time Bob but I think it's good enough despite the grain being a little coarser than it probably was originally. That's a side effect of scanning I think. John.
I remember seeing an advanced screening in cinema in Melbourne and having no idea what it would be about. I later bought it on VHS then DVD. Unfortunately the DVD was a modified for TV version with no swearing and the gunplay toned down. The store wouldn't refund it and Fox denied it was cut. I currently own it on BD (including 3D) and UHD and consider it to be one of Arnie's best.
Wot, no LaserDisc or Super 8 copy Craig?!? You'll have to do much better!!! Yes, we can spend a lot of money purchasing a favourite movie over and over again when new and better formats come along and this is one of them. John.
This 4K disc on my 55 inch Sony Bravia is outstanding. When the wife chips in with a Wow! you know its special. I'm really looking forward to your Star Wars video John, another Disc that looks incredible in my opinion.
The bigger the projected image the easier it is to separate the wheat from the chaff. It's just the coarse grain structure that lets this one down a bit but it doesn't bother me. Seems to be a side effect of scanning a film as that is known to exacerbate film grain. The Super 8 print has a finer grain structure as far as I can see. John.
Glad I'm one of the few around here who saw this at the cinema when it came out!
But did you get the Super 8 print Bob?!?
@@moviecollector5920
No, alas my projector is silent. :-(
But, I did buy the special edition DVD
you showed! :-)
@@bobrew461 Well, we'll just have to find you a decent sound projector Bob. Although finding a copy of the Super 8 Predator feature would be a little more difficult!
great review, John
looks like I'll be purchasing this 4K disc the next time I go to the store.
if you find a way to project super 8 to fill your screen, be sure to let me know how you did that, as it would be very interesting to see.
I'm sure if you use an array of Mirror placement, it can look great.
Have a great day, John!
Right angled mirrors would work Clark but my idea is to stick the projector right out in the hallway and see if I can fit the projected image through the door and onto the screen with it remaining in focus all the way over. This is why 'Scope films are preferable because the anamorphic lens doubles the width of the projected image. And that's why we see the masking move out in cinemas when a 'Scope film is about to come on. Or at least, we used to see that at cinemas... the curtains would open and then the masking would move out and it was always exciting when that happened because the 2.40:1 image was so much more impressive.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 clever idea with the projector in the hallway, John. I myself projected the trailer reel you gifted me on a huge wall, about 6 foot wide screen, the image looked great, I still prefer film over digital, that’s for sure!
Great video! Another movie added to my list
Predator is a great film Jesus and just like the Super 8 release from more than 30 years ago, the 4K is a beauty.
John.
Classic. Must have watched this 20+ times over my lifetime! This came out as a 4K boxset a few years ago.
I might take a look at the sequel again sometime soon because I probably haven't seen that since its theatrical release. John.
@@moviecollector5920 People hated it, but its actually pretty good in my opinion. Considering that the whole franchise meandered downhill from there, the early ones are the best. 80s action goodness! Pre-accident Gary Busey is also a sight to behold!
@@MonkeyspankO i liked it. I don't understand why anyone would hate it. If we hadn't have had the original film first then surely it would have been a classic in its own right.
Only 20?
@@michaelmyers3709 ikr
Another great review John, I wasn't old enough to see it at the cinema when it came out in '87, l first saw it on VHS, had the VHS but wore the cassette tape out with repeat viewing, in the 90's my local cinema did a one night only screening and I thoroughly enjoyed seeing on the big screen, only started with the 4K format in December, Predator and Speed were the first 4K film's I purchased, I was highly impressed with the 4K picture quality.
I fancy running our VHS copy again now so I may look at it soon. But I think I want to run the Super 8 again all the way through, particularly if my idea for completely filling the screen works because that would be really special to have Super 8 that big again.
Now then, Murder on the Orient Express young man!!! Top of your 4K shopping list right now!
John.
@@moviecollector5920 It's on my list along with Total Recall, The Jack Ryan collection featuring another John McTiernan classic, The Hunt for Red October and Schwarzenegger's Raw Deal which comes out on 4K in October plus many more, long list.
@@jamessiddle7389 Be forewarned about The Hunt For Red October because it is so dark on both my systems that I only knew Sean Connery was actually in it because I could hear him!
@@moviecollector5920 Hi John, gone with Michael Mann's HEAT as my next 4K purchase, arriving tomorrow, heard mixed reviews so far, some say it's far too dark, other's say it's great, would love a review and your thoughts on this 4K release.
@@jamessiddle7389 I expect I will purchase Heat as I haven't seen it since it was on general release and I saw it in a little cinema in Dillon, Colorado. I didn't think it was brilliant but I do remember it being a dark film. I'm basing that on one particular section that I remember though so it may be different on the new home video. Somehow I think I will think much more highly of Heat when I see it again. John.
Great video. I always appreciate your unique perspective. I nabbed this a few years ago as part of the 4 film collection when Fox got swallowed up Disney -- figured it was the last time you'd get all four films in one package like that since Disney tends to be stubborn with stuff like that. And I finally sat my 14 year-old son down to watch it a few weeks ago. I found the presentation to be fantastic and a major improvement over the waxy DNR'd Blu-ray. I didn't find the grain to be overpowering at all. A film like Predator has a certain gritty no-BS guerilla-style vibe to it and the film grain only enhances that in my opinion. And it's a strong indicator of the way the movie was filmed as well -- which was a seat-of-the-pants location shoot in Mexico under very harsh conditions using whatever film stock happened to be available to them at the time. Both Schwarzenegger and John McTiernan lost 25 pounds during the 3 month shoot. It was brutal and somehow Arnold shoehorned his wedding to Maria Shriver somewhere in the middle of it. Man, movies just don't get made like this anymore (Mad Max Fury Road being a singular exception). A measure of insanity is required.
Either way, I can't wait to see how you make out with the Super 8 setup. I'd love to see Predator that way.
Great post Tom. I'm not sure Predator ever looked quite like this 4K in cinemas and I say that because the Super 8 certainly appears to have a finer grain structure and that really shouldn't be the case. It is hardly noticeable on Super 8 but that may be down entirely to the process of transferring a film to video these days which is done with scanners and they are notorious for finding and exacerbating edges to anything, notably film grain.
I met with Trevor from Double Bill Movies on Saturday to shoot a video that should be out this evening as he worked for two companies where his job was disc authoring. It's going to be a half hour video but should be an education for most of us because it was for me. Anyway, you'll see us shopping in HMV, Newbury and that was dangerous! But one of the titles I came home with was the new Michael Bay actioner Ambulance so we'll see if that gets close to the action standards achieved in Predator.
John.
Well this is definitely a popular video John. Well done my friend. Thanks for the mention. Hopefully someone will confirm I'm not going mad and making things up. At least I'd be the one to look silly if I'm wrong regarding the optical zooming. It's a good thing you didn't claim it for yourself 😉😄
I love that you have a feature length 8mm version and clearly still have your other old versions.
I like those shorts where you pile them all up. They look like prizes from a game show 😆
It's so good to see the grain structure back in the picture with all that lovely detail. Thankfully I have the BD that was released before all the DNR destroyed the picture and made it look like a hi-res VHS 📼
Nice one John. Top notch as always.
Trevor
Morning Trevor. Your recollection of the optical zooms has been confirmed by a couple of others so you were spot on there. One of the notorious shots apparently was when Arnie's sliding down the mud before dropping into the lake. Because it's a fast moving shot no one is likely to even notice. Time will tell if this video does prove to be as popular as it maybe should be but it hasn't had the best start up to now. Currently it's languishing at number 5 out of my last 10 and none of the last 10 have exactly set the world alight. But you only get one chance to review a film and this was Predator so I had to do it justice.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 It will get around. It's a great review and with little bits of information like the optical zooming should help people understand why in places the film is so grainy.
Glad I could help. You were obviously meant to tell me that you were doing the video ahead of shooting 🙂
Like you said though. How do you keep topping the last video?
But knowing you John you will.
I feel a little pressure regarding our collaboration but I'm going in to it as We get what we get and to keep it as natural and free flow as we can.
I can always elaborate on anything missed in my channels video.
Trevor
@@doublebillmovies Before we put the camera on this Saturday we'll talk about what we're going to do so it should work out alright in the end. Might actually do it with two cameras to avoid having to use fake cutaways and such like.
@@moviecollector5920 Sounds good to me my friend.
Like you said, we will probably speak in the week anyway as we need to arrange a meet up time and so on.
Take it easy and have a great week.
Trevor
Predator is hands down my favourite Arnie flick, and my best experience in a cinema quite recently when it was re-released. The sound was deafening and awesome. First experience was when it premiered on ITV in a butchered version.
The first time ITV broadcast it Derann Film Services sold out of Super 8 prints the following day. I had the VHS and then the Super 8 made it's appearance and that was that. That's the print you see in this video. I think it came out in 1991 and it was simultaneous (almost) with the Super 8 release of Commando which was equally impressive image quality. Those were the days. Hopefully one day you'll get the chance to see a genuine 35mm print because that comes with added realism.
John.
Would love to, the film is just an incredible experience in a theatre. The TV premiere wasn’t cut too much by ITV standards, missing a couple of “mf” curses, blood pouring from Mac’s head, the arm being blown off and Billy having his spine torn out. Random fact - am pretty sure Derann got their name from the founders Derek and Anne.
@@michaelmyers3709 That's exactly how the Derann name came about. Well done Michael. I still keep in touch with a couple of the former staff so Derann has never really fully gone away. Classic Home Cinema in Cleethorpes have taken up the mantle now and are the biggest Super 8 film dealer in the world. They have a physical shop too. John.
A fav of mine, have dvd, Br & now 4K. Like your review. Watch in my HT 120” screen with JVC 2000 4K projector once a month.
Well that's dedication Trojan. But you'll have to track down one of the remaining Super 8 prints now too! John.
Your videos are brilliant ! I love them. Congrats !
Thank you Rogerio. I think they're a bit different to anyone else doing 4K movie reviews and a few other things but that was the gap in the market I thought I could fill. I couldn't find anyone able to review a video disc who knew about the film formats. Predator is a good case in that regard as I have the Super 8 feature print. John.
Loved the review John! ❤️
Thank you HerkDylan. Now then, what's this about Squid Games?!?
Nice review, looking forward to the Star Wars 4K to super8 comparison
Something tells me I'll prefer the original version of the film Johnny but it's a good excuse to have a look at both versions and should be a lot of fun. John.
Another great video John 😎 would love to see you do all the star wars movies, including the prequels 😎 of course episode 4 is the best but I do love the prequels 😎 I hope you're a fan too haha
I really like The Phantom Menace but I can't bear Attack of the Clones. Revenge of the Sith isn't much better and I don't like the re-hashes of the original masterpiece so that's going to make for an interesting video... I'll try not to cry! The Empire Strikes Back may come in a later review if my Star Wars review does well and I do have the second film on Super 8 as well. I also have Return of the Jedi but I have to admit that I don't think it's a particularly good film. It was a big screen film for sure but doesn't really work that well without a giant screen because the story is the same as the first film without all the nuances and all of the great characters.
I have The Phantom Menace on 35mm.
John.
I'm lucky to own the 3D version of the film as well and do enjoy watching it in the 3D format but the 4k is a great disc for sure 👍 😎
A 3D version of Predator sounds a bit like a flogging offence to me Matt but if it brings in some more money so other films can be made then it's not a completely bad thing. You've made me wonder if the 3D conversion was why the excessive image noise reduction was applied that resulted in the awful Blu-ray. Did it look similar?
John.
@@moviecollector5920 I think it was an improvement over the Blu Ray
What a great review. However I did have a predator on VHS back in the 90s and I always remember a scene where Dylan Right arm get shot off and his real arm was behind his back. when DVD first came out I was a bit disappointed not to see that scene I think it would’ve been good if you would’ve mentioned that in your review unless you haven’t seen it keep up the good work
It's on the Super 8 print Anthony but they had to hide his arm somewhere. That's film making and compromises have to be made at times to get a film finished. These days it would be messed up in a computer but I prefer to see a film as it was really shot and looking as natural as possible. Something is often lost when a computer is used to fix something like that scene. John.
@Karl Hanks One day I'll have to check the Super 8 or the VHS to the 4K just to see.
Some of the leafy shots in this were outstanding! Others were a bit weaker, but overall I enjoyed it. I recall reading that the negative wasn't in the greatest shape due to the humid conditions it was filmed in...not sure how accurate this is, but the effort put into this 4K was worth it imo.
Film doesn't like getting damp because it can cause the emulsion side to swell and stick onto the base side. Been there, done that... what a mess. I don't think that would have been the issue with Predator but it does look like it wasn't a particularly light sensitive stock like that as used in The Northman. Develpments in film technology are being made all the time though and Kodak in particular have done incredible work over the past 30 years or so.
John.
The explanation given by the film makers was that the "B camera" was using the wrong film stock by mistake.
@@moviecollector5920 They had to make use of zooming in on the negative to make the editing more intense. Medium shoots were turned into closeups etc. sacrificing quality over storytelling.
@@ghostviggen Seems like there were all manner of potential reasons why this film appears a little more grainy than others made in the late 1980s. There's no getting away from the fact that the film grain appearance is finer on the Super 8 print than it is on a scan of the 35mm negative which does seem to confirm what we already know about scanning a film exacerbating the appearance of the grain. I have found that myself when scanning film frames whereas when I transfer using an aerial image system it all looks more natural... just like a film really. John.
Thanks for sharing John its quite a while since I’ve seen this one.
I don't think I'd run it for about five years Paul. But I do fancy running the Super 8 again now... real film is addictive and once I run one title I tend to want to run a lot more. John.
@@moviecollector5920 I still haven’t had any luck finding a power cord for my Cinerex Model 934 Projector,I now only have a couple of 8mm films in the house but at one time had a lot more.might look into the Predator 4K movies.
Hey John, I've reached Oregon and we're now unpacking. The guest bedrooms were a priority as friends are arriving soon. The movie collection is in shelves, but the HT needs a lot of work with painting and wiring. You know the deal. The big news is that the farm now has internet. I purchased the Predator collection on 4K last year and like these films less with each revisit. Of course, the original is a good (but not great) film, the sequels bring diminishing returns as usual. Stay well my friend.
Sequels can often diminish the impact and impression of the original Rob so that may be why you don't like Predator as much as you once did. I think it's a great film but I've stayed away from the sequels having only seen Predator 2 once when it was first in theatres.
Congratulations on your new home. If you're like me then you'll find the home cinema quickly becomes a bit of a priority even though I had the best intentions of getting the rest of the house sorted first. It can be a frustrating process to put a home cinema together but it's also a lot of fun so have fun and enjoy yourselves.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 setting up beds, the kitchen, etc were high priorities. Only been here 8 days. Just bought a 65" LG OLED in a sale (arrives this week) for the family room to keep the clan happy while the theater rebuild is underway 😂 On Predator, you're 100% correct! I rate films unlike most (14,000 different films seen and only 53 have achieved a perfect Bo Derek). A seven puts it in my top 28%. Stay happy!
@@Celestialrob Well fancy sorting out the kitchen before the home cinema!!!
"A perfect Bo Derek" - only us film fans would fully understand that disguised way of saying "Ten".
Wonderful review John! I've always thought predator was just OK, but I sure love watching and learning about your Super 8 prints of movies. I think it's so cool that you used the DTS track from the DVD to sync with your film print. How did you ensure the audio was exactly lined up? Thanks!
The projector is locked into PAL 25fps so once the film is started in sync with the video then that's it until there's a frame difference a few times during the running. At that point, the projector has fast and slow override buttons and it only takes about a second to drop it back into sync. It's always good fun to do this because you can't really believe that you're watching a Super 8 print with such great sound. 30 years ago and more there was nothing else to rival it on the home market. Actually, there was nothing to rival it until about 15 years ago. John.
@@moviecollector5920 awesome, thank you!
My top 5 movie of all time, this and the thing are the first 2 scary movies I watched and remember vividly as a kid. Good ol' days.
I already knew you had a good taste in movies Kowalvelli but Predator certainly re-affirms it. John.
Hi John, Very informative video as ever, I did see Predator at the cinema first time round and loved it ever since, much like Highlander, let's be honest, it's the only good film in a long running franchise. Love your super 8 set up.
Wouldn't it be amazing if I had a Super 8 print of Highlander on Super 8 too Clive? Oh, I have... now there's a surprise! Highlander isn't anywhere near as good as Predator for print quality but it's still rather special to have it. John.
Not long picked up the Predator 4 film collection on 4K. Only watched the first so far. Previous copy of Predator that I had was the DNR riddled Blu Ray. Still have my DVD copy too.
Well you still need to collect the LaserDisc, Super 8, Beta, VHS, CD-I and 16mm yet Carl so you have much collecting still to do!!! And there must be a few 35mm prints out there somewhere too... and a 70mm blow-up now that I mention it. John.
@@moviecollector5920 nah… too much for me. My movie collection barely started at VHS 😛
I need this! Thank you for sharing! :)
You're welcomie MM ASMR. John.
Thank you again, sir. Cheers!
Thank you David.
John.
I was too young for the theatrical release of Predator :(
My first time catching the movie was on the 2-disc DVD release in the early 2000s
I skipped the awfully reviewed Blu-ray release, and held off upgrading the DVD until the 4K version was released a few years ago
I thought the grain on the 4K version is organic, and it is one of the more strikingly cinematic rendition of an older movie available in the format
There was an earlier Blu-ray that was from a normal video master file and not the overly de-speckled 3D master. It's interesting that the Super 8 print has a finer grain appearance than the 4K transfer from the original camera negative because that really shouldn't be the case but perhaps illustrates the flaw of scanning a film because scanning is known to exacerbate film grain.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 all modern home video releases do get some degree of DNR treatment, this may explain the difference between the Super 8 and 4K versions :)
wasn't the earlier Blu-ray release more of a DNR mess than the 3D re-release?
@@myretronation I'm told that it was only the preparation for the 3D release that resulted in that de-speckled master being used for the last Blu-ray release so I would expect they both looked rather similar in the end product. I had suspected that some image noise reduction is applied after a film is scanned to soften the resultant coarse appearance of film grain that wasn't really as coarse as the scan produced. In this case I expect there was such a howling and gnashing of teeth after that awful Blu-ray that they may not have applied any noise reduction for the 4K and that would explain why it appears the way it does whereas the Super 8 has an almost invisible fine grain appearance. But I do need to watch the Super 8 all the way through again to really get to grips with how fine the grain structure is all the way through the film. John.
Thank you for this fine review!
Thank you for that fine comment. John.
great review. I need to get this one. I saw this on TV recently and it seemed like the surrounds were very aggressive. which i liked. hoping that carriers over to the 4k transfer.
I thought the surround sound on this one was rather subtle Luis but that may be down to my system and yours may give a different impression. It has Digital Theatre System sound on the disc but originally is was Dolby Stereo. John.
@@moviecollector5920 I will have to get it and try out the audio on 4k. maybe it was enhanced for TV.
@@luisd7636 It may have been the original Dolby Stereo tracks which might have had a more active surround channel. It's certainly full of surround on the Super 8 print but that's mainly due to leakage because getting two magnetic tracks on two sound heads to match exactly for Dolby Stereo to decode correctly is almost impossible.
@@moviecollector5920 i will buy this 4k and find out.
@@luisd7636 I hope you have a good time with it Luis and the sound turns out to sound wonderful on your system.
Great review. Thank you. I love that Predator poster. Not sure if that’s in your collection, but I sold an identical looking poster on EBay about 3 years ago. I wonder if you were the purchaser? 🙂
No, that's not my poster but if you'd have told me you had it then I might have been!!! The UK quad posters have always been the best and Predator is no exception. John.
Great review, this is one of my favourite 4Ks which is on my 'annual watch ' list. As you say, it's remarkable what we can now buy for home consumption for a small outlay to enjoy over and over ......I'm watching my favourite films of all time in quality I could only have dreamt of when I first watched them as a lad on VHS - Bladerunner, Alien, 2001, The Thing, Apocalypse Now, The Shining, Jaws, Lawrence of Arabia, The Godfather, The Deerhunter, Raiders of Lost Ark, Vertigo, The Good the Bad and the Ugly ....to name a few, they all look mind-blowing, it's an absolute joy to watch them time & time again just how the Director envisaged. Next up I've ordered Raging Bull Criterion from US, apparently the transfer is a 10/10. I can't be bothered to wait and hope for a UK release, it's in my top 5 of all time.
You'll have to let me know about Raging Bull Neill. I only ever saw it on a television broadcast which probably didn't do it justice so if the 4K is representative of a film print then I should finally take a proper look at it. I tend to like boxing films but I didn't think so much of Raging Bull at the time. As for your list of favourite films, what a list! Many of mine are in there but strangely I don't think I've ever managed to get all the way through The Good, The Bad & The Ugly. Something hypnotic about that film always knocked me out when I was a youngster and tried to watch it on the telly late at night. The TechniScope filming format doesn't exactly thrill me with anticipation but I suppose it's a slightly upmarket 16mm equivalent so 4K should be about right to get the maximum out of it. TechniScope was used on all three of those 'Dollars' movies as a way to save money on production costs. How good would it have looked like if it had have been shot in proper 35mm?
John.
@@moviecollector5920 The Good, The Bad & the Ugly was a staple round my best friend's house growing up, we used to watch it over and over and always quoting it! The 4k transfer is very very good, no HDR funnily enough, but the transfer is pristine and no DNR. It's absout as good as you could ever hope for. You're right, the film is hypnotic! I also find Apocalypse Now & 2001 very hypnotic, almost like an experience when I watch them. Mulholland Drive another film which is very hypnotic. They are the sort of films when I put on they are getting 110% of my focus otherwise I'll drift! Again, I think Raging Bull is another film which just has many layers, funnily enough I think I see it more as a biopic than a boxing film. A biopic which just happens to have some wonderful boxing sequences. Thelma Schoonmakers photography is absolutely exquisite, I really can't wait to watch it after seeing some of the reviews of the transfer. I'll be sure to drop some feedback when it arrives, it will not be here for a couple of weeks as it is coming across the big pond! Keep up the great work, you are without a doubt the most enjoyable film reviewer I've watched in a long time. The technical analysis you add to the reviews is fascinating and educational. Neill
@@giggsy42 I think Raging Bull was a black and white 35mm which would explain why people are saying it looks good because black and white film stock is sharper than colour film stock. As for there not being any image noise reduction on The Good, The Bad & The Ugly I'm not sure we can ever be certain of that now because of how coarse film grain can look following a scan. I wouldn't be surprised if a moderate amount of noise reduction is applied to most of the resultant videos after the films have been scanned. I don't think any was applied to this transfer of Predator and if I'm right about that then it would probably be because of how awful it looked on that second Blu-ray release and the bad word of mouth it generated.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 interstesing I didn't realise that about 35mm b&w film stock. That probably explains why Dr Strangelove and Psycho both look so great as well, particularly Psycho which looks absolutely stunning actually. Yes, sure you're right re DNR on The Good, The Bad & the Ugly, there must be some even if small amounts but thankfully whatever they applied the detail is all there and grain is not excessive, it's very fine but there, I'm a big graib fan! What really stands out is the colour, I have seen some horrible colour applied over the years, too warm and very yellow / brown. The colour on the 4k release is incredible, skin tones are spot on and the colour of the skies and desert is absolutely gorgeous. Yes, I saw that awful Predator release, I think you're right, maybe younger audiences that have not been reared on film may find that look 'pleasing! As everyone looks like they have been put through an Instagram filter and de-aged 10 years! Not for me, but it takes all sorts!
@@giggsy42 Yes, black and white has a much higher silver content which is apparently what gives it the extra sharpness. Don't ask me how that actually works though. As for the colour you describe as warm and yellow/brown, that sounds like a transfer from faded prints. Often the colour fade can either leave a pink or brown look to a print. I have a few older Super 8 titles turning a sort of salmon pink but more of them seem to turn brown. The pink ones are due to the blues fading fastest leaving the other two primary colours dominant. John.
Really love seeing the super 8 prints you have. I never realised they were so common. I'm curious, how much did a new super 8 print cost back in the day compared to what we spend now on blurays and 4Ks?
Film has always been an expensive hobby Luke but up until about 17 or 18 years ago there was no realistic alternative for a big screen in the home. Blu-ray was the first video format up to the job but affordable video projection took a few years longer to become a reality. I got that Super 8 feature of Predator a year or two after it was first issued and I only paid £185 whereas a new copy in 1991 would have been about £265. A couple of years later at it was £299. Today you'd be looking at about £1,000 if anyone were still releasing feature length films. I didn't buy many films but it was great to be able to get an occasional cinema 'fix' in the home and the result was that I watched films like Predator over and over and over again. There was a plethora of great releases during the mid-1990's and I managed to purchase a few of them every year with the end result being a rather large and treasured collection of some of the best titles ever committed to film.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 Wow, amazing! Thanks for the info, I guess we better be thankful owning films is as cheap as it is today!
Nice review mate but ill be sticking with my dvd and blue ray lol but its always nice to see your reviews. P,S Jaws is getting released in IMAX and 3d IN SEPTEMBER ... many thanks mate
Dare I really say this but I think re-working Jaws into 3D is terrible. To stick it into IMAX cinemas is even worse and it's not going to work because it's a 'Scope film so it's going to appear as a strip across the screen. I know a genuine IMAX screen is so massive that most people won't even notice there isn't any masking but it's still a horrible way to present one of the most impressive pieces of cinema history ever produced. But if it bring a load more money in then that's got to be a good thing. If they were to strike new 35mm prints or 70mm blow-ups from that 5.6K scan that created the 4K discs then that would have been special... but children and youngsters wouldn't have been interested so that's why they've gone for the 3D process... and probably turned into a grain free, waxy looking final image to boot.
John.
I've just been recommended to your channel. Absolutely fantastic. So I've subscribed. Predator looks fabulous on my 4k TV no complaints from me
Good to have you here Dave. Right now I'm working on a longer video with Trevor from Double Bill Movies who actually worked in the disc authoring industry so I'm joining with him to get something out there to inform all us enthusiasts about the enormous amount of work that goes into getting any disc release out there for us to purchase, enjoy and keep for the rest of our lives. John.
@@moviecollector5920 I've watched most of your videos last night, I like how you give us history of the film then get right to the point of the movie details. Your actually one of my fav channels on RUclips and looking forward to seeing more content
@@davefilms345 That must have been a long time looking at me Dave. I think I've put more than 80 videos up over the two years. Had a lot of fun doing it though.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 I guess I should refrase when I said I watched most lol I did watch around 25-28 video's, loved them all
@@davefilms345 On the bright side Dave, you still have a lot of viewing to do.
Nice one, thanks John.
Thanks Cheekster.
Would love to see a super 8 screening, u’ve got me intrigued with all these videos on it! Every one of ur videos is like a school day re. the filming process. Great stuff as always. I thought the 4k for predator was great. Your right re. the at times overly coarse grain structure but for the most part the detail is superb and I thought HDR was used lavishly for the explosions and jungle vegetation 👌 The day time shots look fantastic. I missed the blu ray and came from the very DVD you have in this video! lol But those shots of the DNR’d blu ray are horrible. I can see why people were upset. Cheers John 👍
We've managed to establish that the Blu-ray with the excessive image noise reduction was taken from the 3D master which confirmed my suspicions that to generate the best faux 3D effect from a film necessitates removing any visible grain or noise otherwise it would upset the overall three dimensional effect by sitting flat on the screen. After all, they could hardly make film grain 3D. There are some good film enthusiasts on this channel contributing some very worthwhile information. Because of that it's also been confirmed that Trevor at Double Bill Movies was right and there were optical enlargements for some shots.
Super 8 can drive you nuts at times but when it's right it's a delight and this print of Predator is a stunner. No two prints were ever identical though, particularly if struck at different film laboratories. Later prints of Predator weren't a patch on the first run prints but there was nothing particularly unusual about that. I think we all learned that if you liked a film enough to shell out so much money for it you had to get an early print and preferably one from the first run.
John.
Great review of a childhood favorite. Any plans of reviewing Luc Bessons ’Léon the Professional’?
I might include Leon within a round-up video or something in the future Dunn but I've had the Blu-ray for years and watched it too many times to warrant buying another copy on 4K yet. I still have the cinema tickets from when we saw it and that was in the tiny studio within The Empire known as Empire 3. I can't recall ever seeing another film in that cupboard but the film was so good that it didn't seem to matter.
John.
Ah the struggle. The first 20 times I saw Predator was on a dubbed VHS tape. A guy at my dad's work was taping movies from the cable movie channel and selling them. We had Predator and Raw Deal on one tape, and Robocop and Die Hard on the other tape. My mom saw the opening scene on Raw Deal, and she was pissed that I was watching stuff like that at 10 years old. . . good thing she never saw Robocop!
Raw Deal is pretty horrific at times so I can understand mum's concerns. Then again, she should have known you were already a film enthusiast and once us film enthusiasts found a way to watch movies back in those days we ran them over and over again. Today we're spoilt and can watch so many films that we don't need to repeat the same films like we used to. I don't know how many times I've seen Predator but I know I've run that Super 8 print a lot.
John.
The Blu-ray disc in this set is apparently the same disc from the Ultimate Hunter Edition but it isn't the first time it was issued on Blu-ray, I had a double pack with Predator 2 and the grain was rampant but I felt it was how it should've looked having seen it on VHS & DVD and the limitations of the time.
I have the 4K triple pack with 1, 2 & 3 and Predator 2 is the standout for me, it looks superb on 4K.
Yes, there was an earlier release on Blu-ray. It seems that the awful second release may have come from the master created for the abomination of a 3D release and possibly they had to remove any trace of grain so the 3D effect would work. Good to know that Predator 2 is good on 4K because I should really see that film again soon.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 yes that's exactly what happened, they used a scrubbed 3D master, same goes for the T2 4k release.
Another great review, John! I remember seeing the original Predator at the movies back in 87 and it blew the theater away.
I recently sat down to watch it again for probably the first time in about 20 years, and it was just as good as I'd remembered. Mctiernan really was a master storyteller, wasn't he?
I'd definitely be curious to hear your thoughts on PREY. A lot of people are calling it the best Predator movie since the original. It just debuted on Hulu here in the states.
John McTiernan made some wonderful action films during that era. We don't seem to get the same today but I do have the 4K of 'Ambulance' to watch which everyone is saying is the 90's action flick reborn so maybe we'll get a return to big action films that are actually good films too. As for another Predator sequel, it's going to take a lot of encouragement for me to want to see it. I enjoyed Predator 2 but we'd seen it all before and that is the problem. Just like Jaws, the predator only has one good film in him. I'll be delighted to be proved wrong though but my 'seen it all before' statement often proves to be the case as repeating the mystery and suspense simply isn't possible when it's all been shown in a first film.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 I think you should give Prey a watch, John. It does a lot of things right by taking the Predator back to basics. The setting is primitive, and the native American cast is strong. The star, Amber Midthunder is tough and scrappy, and comes across as realistic. She kind of reminded me of Newt from Aliens, only older.
Also, the Predator itself is quite scary again, which is nice to see.
Lastly, since you're a fan of 2, there's a nice little Easter egg towards the end.
Give it a look; it's beautifully shot and only 99 minutes.
@@billg3356 Good sell there Bill. It might fall into my lap sometime after what you've told me so thank you. John.
Great review
Great comment Steffy!
Excellent review John I have to get around to watching the 3D version, although I understand the review of the 3D version is not very good, but I will give it a go soon.
Making a 3D of a timeless classic like Predator really doesn't appeal to me but I think it may explain how that awful looking Blu-ray came about because how can you 3D something with film grain spoiling the effect. Would the grain be flat and the rest of the imagery have depth? John.
I think we discussed the DNR being an issue on the "Terminator 2" 4K release - apparently it took the issues you mentioned here in relation to "Predator" and dialled them up to 11 - to the degree that the actors resembled the figures from Madame Tussaud's! Thanks for the review - can't wait to hear your impressions on "Star Wars".
And yet Terminator 2 always looked fabulous so it must have just been an issue with the scanning process. Judging by recent evidence some scanners are better than others so perhaps Terminator 2 and Predator were scanned on an older machine. I can't be too critical because machines like that must cost a fortune so it's not like a company can just sling one out to get the latest technology every couple of years.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 Interestingly, both films underwent 3D post conversions at different times - I wonder if that could have anything to do with it? Or maybe it's just an Arnold specific glitch!
@@danhardcastle Perhaps the same video editor/grader did the work on both titles. A have a vision of a spotty teenager who likes watching cartoons created in a computer!
T2 4k was scanned by studio canal using the 3D version rather than the original print. But to be fair it looks great on 3D as for predator 4k was done by fox.who Disney own, not sure if Disney had anything to do with it or not, but if they did it probably not as good as it should of been. So everyone waiting for the likes of the Abyss or rest of the alien franchise will have a long wait & could still get low quality conversions..
@@barrycoote9562 I did suspect that the 3D conversion was the reason for the poor quality issue on the Terminator 2 4K release. I haven't seen it myself but so many people have reported the 'waxy' look that it's obviously the result of too much image noise reduction. It seems that it's a necessary process for a satisfactory 3D conversion. John.
The Predator 4k is really great. Have had every physical copy since vhs and it is definitely worth the upgrade compared to the old DVD and previous Bluray.
Would really love a video with your thoughts on the Heat 4K if you can. My favourite film and and as im sure you have seen a bit of a controversy going on with the image quality on this new release.
The Super 8 release of Predator was issued after the VHS so it looks like you're missing one physical media copy there! Good luck with finding one of those nowadays though. As for Heat, I saw that at a little cinema in America and the sequence I remember well from that film was dark so I expect the dark nature of the film has caused some consternation with a 4K release. If it's as dark as the 4K of The Hunt For Red October though then that's probably not right but I do remember much of it being shot at night.. I expect I will take another look now it's had a 4K release as I haven't seen it since that cinema screening - I didn't think too much of it back then but I expect my opinion will change somewhat all these years later. John.
Great content. Had no idea you could buy Super 8 movies like that, how much do those go for nowadays?
I expect a print of Predator would change hands for about £500 nowadays Sam but I've seen the top titles go for more than £1,000 on eBay. I got my copy second hand about a year after it was first released and it only cost £185. A major investment back then but it was very special to have it. It's been run many, many times. John.
One of my favourite movies ever and will definitely be picking this up but have a quick question. HMV are currently selling this for £11 but is the price so cheap because there could be a 35th anniversary edition coming out soon? I found the price drop strange so might hold off and wait.
I don't know if there's going to be a special edition out next year Gary but the likelihood is that it will be the same disc or from the exact same master so it's probably a good idea to snap up a copy while it's so cheap. If a special edition does appear next year then you can make a relaxed decision on whether or not to purchase the film again and possibly sell your £11.99 copy.
John.
Predator is a proper blokes 80's action movie and part of my top 5 Action movies of all time, along with Die Hard and The Matrix.
I'm just waiting for Aliens on 4K and perhaps a new Terminator 2 4K to complete that particular 4K set.
Terminator 2 is possible but perhaps if that were to be viable it should be done at the same time as The Terminator. I wonder if it's a rights issue that the first (and best) film in the series hasn't had a 4K release yet. After all, it would give me another excuse to show a film running through a Super 8 projector again. Actually another subscriber on here has a 35mm print of it too so I should get along to his place and film that going through one of his projectors. Aliens would make for another fun RUclips video for me. John.
What are the other top two action movies of all time?
@@shoopypit4884 The Terminator and Aliens are two that immediately come to mind. Terminator 2 would probably be up there too but how about Raiders of the Lost Ark, the original Star Wars and Jaws - do they count?
@@moviecollector5920 sure, they count. any movie counts as an action movie if they have tense, action packed scenes. Both jaws and star wars had great tense scenes that used clever editing techniques to great effect.
@@shoopypit4884 I dare say that my top ten action films would be almost the same as my top ten favourite films with the possible exception of Halloween which can't be classed as action... unless we accept that having a big knife stuck in someone passes for action!
Hello John! The closeup of Elmo and the sound to video synchronizer are very educational. It was great to pause the video for a minute and take a look at the equipment. This is one of my most favorite scary movies of all times - since childhood. I must have been about 6-7, when I saw it for the first time. Great film. It keeps the thrill and suspense throughout. Wonderful review, as always! Thank you very much!
Do you like any other movie from the Predator universe?
It would be great to see your review of Quentin Tarantino's film "Four Rooms" - a great weird comedy.
Also, Netflix is releasing a new TV show "the Sandman". If I am not mistaken, it is a British production. Like the TV series "Good Omens", it is based on a story by the famous sci-fi and fantasy writer Terry Pratchet. It looks really good.
What are your thoughts about these two?
Well I hadn't heard about Good Omens or The Sandman Dmitri but I don't subscribe to any streaming web sites so I won't be seeing them any time soon. You'll have to let me know what they're like and if they're top-notch then I'll have to hope they get issued on disc. I'm not the biggest fan of Quentin Tarantino's films as I'm not really into sex and violence. But he is one of the most enthusiastic big Hollywood directors supporting real film so he's alright in my book.
I only ever saw Predator 2 and although I don't think I've seen it since its theatrical outing, I thought it was a good sequel. If it had have been the first film in the series it would have got a much warmer reception.
I wondered if anyone would use the pause button to take a closer look at the synch pulse box and the back of the Elmo GS1200. I should have known that you would!
John.
@@moviecollector5920 I had a feeling you are such an esthete that you probably do not watch cinema on anything other than analogue equipment. There is something very classy about that. You also have a great devotion to classical English cars. So, it all makes sense! )
I have never seen Predator 2 in a theater, but I absolutely agree that if it came out before the first one, then they would both get an equal amount of love! Some time ago I was present at a lecture of Danny Glover, who plaid the main role in Predator 2. Prior to that I had no idea he was a great activist advocating for support and education of youger generations in less fortunate neighborhoods. He is a great role model for sure.
Since I moved to the US my taste in cinema changed drastically and I stopped liking movies by Tarantino completely - even the ones I used to like. Perhaps it is because in a way I started living in the same setting, where his movies are taking place. Also, for some reason, I stopped watching German and French movies too.. But, other cultures opened up to me from every direction, so as it often happens in life: when something leaves your everyday life, that place does not stay vacant for too long.
I most definitely paused the video to check out the equipment. You did an extra great job this time to show it: wide view, sharp close-up, plenty of light. Equipment was whispering: "Look at me!" ))
Have a great weekend, all of you!!! I hope I can surprise you with something beautiful and aesthetically pleasing tomorrow!
@@dmitripopov8570 We're actually about to hit the road as we have a day filming with a load of old buses Dmitri which should be a lot of fun even though it certainly won't be easy. Cars are one thing but huge great buses is something entirely different.
I seem to still like all the films I did when I was younger but I've grown to like films that I really don't think I did used to enjoy when I was in my teens and early twenties. Strewth, I might even manage to get through Paul Verhoeven's Starship Troopers if it was put in front of me again these days... and that's saying something!
John.
@@moviecollector5920 Hello John! I hope you enjoyed your trip very much and did all the work you planned!
Best part of Starship Troopers:
"I am a man of few words..." - said general and left the stage.
The book is very political, comparing to the movie. So, Paul probably did a great job at delivering a great piece of entertainment for the big screen. However, I don't have warm feelings for the movie.
As I understand, your taste in movies also changed quite a bit with time. I suppose it is inevitable.
What makes filming a documentary about buses more complicated than about cars? Filming distance?
I had this on Laserdisc, i think it was an Encore release?? Plus the dvd you showed, that was terrible quality and looked waxy ... The 4k is very nice , i dont mind a layer of grain ... £17.99 i paid for the entire Predator Trilogy, i love the 3 films ... I look forward to the Star wars review as i grew up on the original Trilogy..a 70's child.... Thanks for Another classy review John ...
It might take me a while to get to the Star Wars review. I don't expect I'll like the latest version of the film much but where the original scenes are present without any buggering about will be enjoyable. I did like the 1997 version of the Death Star battle though so it's a shame they didn't just release it with that and leave the rest of the film as it was and always should be. But I'll try not to rant too much when I do the review. Fat chance of that!
John.
@@moviecollector5920 yes I do not like the changes at all , i own the 4k77 release and use that for my viewing
Great review John, u got some great films on different formats.. have u got the excorcist on film would sure like to see a video on that.
The Exorcist was released as a 3x400ft cut down (about 46 minutes) and a 400ft cut down (about 18 minutes). The 400ft was actually a better edit than the 3x400ft but fortunately for us nutters the 400ft contained four or five minutes that wasn't in the longer version and so you could edit the missing sequences in and make a 50 minute mini-feature that really was rather special. A few years later The Exorcist was released on video and then banned but the Super 8 went on and on and on. I have shown a couple of the boxes in an early video but I can't remember which.
John.
@@moviecollector5920 thanks for the info, sounds like you have fun editing film & sounds.i used to do it with video but that was mostly with films that were cut by the Bbfc & the copy's of the uncut versions were so poor.but still fun times I remember on the original predator I would record the dialogue & played them back all the time..
@@barrycoote9562 My father, my brother and I spent a complete day in the summer of 1980 (a bloody hot day too!) cutting that extended version of The Exorcist together. There was a dilemma over the scene of the exterior of the Barringer Clinic because there was dialogue overlaid to it on the 400ft cut down and to include that whole line of dialogue meant that the Barringer Clinic had to appear for a second time. Oh what fun. John.
@@moviecollector5920 Always good to hear stories from budding movie fans & collector's..
as a younger fellow in my early 20s, i like dnr applied, as long as we still have access to a version of the film without it, but we seem to only get one or the other. dnr does need to be done a certain way though. i loved it in aliens, but not so much in that blue ray release of predator, or the 4k release of terminator 2.
It's likely that the technology has improved Duncan but the Predator Blu-ray and the Terminator 2 4K were taken from video masters created for 3D abominations. Someone evidently thought it might be a good idea to use the 4K masters that came from those processes to knock out a standard Blu-ray and a 4K release. 3D works best when there is little or no 'noise' in the imagery, hence why the image noise reduction was taken too far. American Graffiti appears to be the stand out so far for use of the technology to create something of good quality from a film originally of quite low quality. Not every shot worked so well but overall, that one is impressive work.
John.
Another stellar review.
Almost a Stella Artois comment there Chris! John.
Hi great video 😀👍
Thank you Paul. John.
I never realised till now, that Predator was basically a remake of Alien but with different setting. Crazy
If you analyse the sequel to Alien and then the Alien Resurrection, they're all basically the same. At least in Predator the ending is different whereas in the two Alien sequels the alien is blasted into space just as it is in the original. But we never seem to notice or care much by the time we get to the ending. John.
@@moviecollector5920 Yes you're right, I never thought of that till now actually. Lol!
I meant more along the lines of atmosphere. For atmosphere.. they used the jungle instead of the Ship. Both films having 7 people been stalked and eliminated (Anna is basically Jonesy😂). The music to ramp up tension, and a almost indestructible creature/assailant. Even the the self destruct thing at the end was similar.
I just never saw the similarities till I thought about it.
Probably why Fox ended up melding the two huh?
@@shgarli45 That's a good analysis. It is very different in look and feel to me but given what you've pointed out Alien must have been a heavy influence as it has been on many films. I think the reason 20th Century Fox brought the two series together was because they thought it would bring in some money. I couldn't bare the thought of watching either of those films though even though Dan O'Bannon's original script idea of the pyramid containing the Alien eggs was used. That was ditched out of the original film and the eggs appeared to be within the bowels of the derelict spacecraft as a result. That was done for pacing purposes as it would have meant two trips out of the Nostromo to investigate two different locations and that would have upset the flow. John.
This is one of the best 4Ks of an older Film. The Blu Ray was quite terrible, but they've thankfully made up for it with the 4K. It looks like an actual film now. The Actors look like actual people and not Claymation. Fox has done a great job restoring the film to how it should look.
The one fly-in-the-ointment may be that the film grain appears to look much finer on the Super 8 print than it does on the 4K scan of the original camera negative. I think we know why that seems to happen so often now but until someone from the industry responsible for these jobs comes on here for an interview I can't be categoric but it's an artifact of scanning. John.
@@moviecollector5920 I know you said at the end of the Video that you are going to review the Original Star Wars on 4K.
I recently got the Skywalker Saga on 4K and tested all the Movies. The Original Trilogy has a much more different look when compared to the 2011 Blu Ray. Not to say it's bad, but I will personally stick to my 'Deapecialized Edition' of the Trilogy on Blu Ray, as it has been painstakingly remastered to look as close as the films did when they first came out in the 70s and 80s in High Definition.
As for the Bonus Features there are Archival Features from the previous Blu Ray releases and there are some new features, such as interviews with some of the Production Team looking back on their work. They're not much but they're still nice to have as a fan.
@@cooperbourke7717 I might be crying too much at the end of the film to watch any extra features Cooper. I have a feeling I'll have to run the original film on Super 8 again just to get over all those extra little cartoons that have been chucked in all over the place. Why, oh why can't they get rid of all that and put it back to how it was? I do have the Blu-ray set with the first six films but I only ever watched Attack of the Clones (terrible) and Revenge of the Sith (possibly even worse) from that set as I have the others on film. I had a look at the start of The Phantom Menace a couple of years ago and even that film has been messed with. I had to turn it off after a few minutes because it wasn't the film I knew. I really don't understand why the original versions of the films are not the preferred release.
John.
Wow as usual always enjoy watching your videos my friend 🙂 I myself am growing in my collection.
Don't spend too much Sean. Then again, how much is too much?
John.
@@moviecollector5920 Yes that's true I guess every hobby has its own way to spend like we all do but mostly I love to find great bargains like four months ago I found someone who wanted to sell his collection he had over 800 dvds for just 100 euros so I took the opportunity.
Watched this review again, a few times now as it's a good'n and one of my favourites. "Get to the choppa!" Maybe a follow-up with the sequels please...
I've only ever seen Predator 2 out of all the sequels Mubai. I haven't seen any of the Alien vs. Predator films either. Too many movies not enough time. John.