6 years here was in field service work and switched. Love it most fun you can have with your clothes on lol. Can be a bitch though with him new mag sorters 10 things you get a little speck of metal down in it and it's over It drives me crazy some days
Regarding the hydraulics, what you appear to have is a classic closed centre circuit with a dump valve that unloads the flow until pressure is called for and allows the closed centre spools to operate in an open centre circuit. I suspect the blade spool is a mistake by someone in a previous life of the machine. Blank it off and move the blade to the spool you have marked as NA. The spool marked as Free Spool should be the dump valve and it should be returning to tank in the unpowered state. It has to be energised whenever you activate another spool (use double pole switches). Once energised, the spool moves to the blanked off port and raises the circuit pressure. Your diagram doesn't show where the pipe from the free spool goes. If it is not piped to tank I suspect it has previously been used as a carry over spool to another valve chest which then returns the oil to tank. Do you have a free tank return that has nothing connected to it? If you do, make a pipe from the free spool to that return. If you don't, you will have to create one. I should also add, In the previous video you spoke about the computer that controlled the machine. It would have managed the switching of the free spool (dump valve) when the other functions were operated. Love your videos. Keep them coming.
Agreed on this, I think someone messed up the connections. It should be hooked up as you indicated and that open center valve used to toggle the pressure for when there's demand.
I have an alternative theory. The blade hoses are connected to the wrong valve. And, the second valve from the left marked "BLADE" is actually the dump valve. Try moving the blade A and B hoses to the closed valve marked "N/A". And then block off the A and B ports on the valve labelled as "BLADE". That way the default state with no solenoids activated is for all the flow to go straight back to the tank. And to operate any of the functions the "dump" valve must also be activated. On the other hand, maybe it's a series manifold not a parallel manifold, and all the spools are tandem spools. And the next video will correct this and find the real problem.
Even when i saw the first diagram at 14:00 i thought to myself "There is a high f-up possibility up in there... why is there a not-used circuit/valve?". There could've been a switcharoo made in the past, parked and forgotten about. Followed by the patina of time masking it as "stock", or as said in the video untampered with.
I'm wondering whether all 4 valves are wired up, or was the N/A valve never wired at all (or the wires were swapped and/or cut by someone "fixing" a defective valve or solenoid). If there are 4 sets of solenoid control wires then my money is on a prior "fix" that messed everything up.
Strongly suspect this is correct. Would encourage you to email Wes a diagram to be sure he sees this solution. Blade spool I agree may be red Herring that does not belong. Important Wes sees this comment to save time.
Wes, if there's anyone on this planet that can figure out how to get that little Frankenstein contraption up and working it's you. Just step back,scratch your brain and I've no doubt that you'll have an Aahha moment. Of course some advice from us Peanut gallery members might help. Anyways, A Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you and your family. I'm pretty sure that Santa is gonna spoil a certain little boy. No not you Wes, your wee little Son. Mommy is in charge of spoiling you.
Hi Wes Merry Christmas to you all I’m pretty sure you will figure this out and have it working for sure ,you defo lost me just with the wiring never mind the hydraulics lol take care and all the best for 2024 ❤️👍👌🔧🔧🔧🐾🐾🦴🦴
@@dcviper985That engineering paper is life to anyone who went through any sort of engineering coursework (that how I knew was was from my people when I started watching). I can’t sketch a straight line without it.
Wes sneaking in a classic pencil sketch just before year end! Awesome. Thanks for sharing your video stories with us this year and best wishes to you, Mrs Wes and kiddo.
Why do I keep envisioning this thing ripping uncontrolled through the shop like a velociraptor leaving a road runner style hole in the back wall.....Merry Christmas to you and your family
Yep - the second spool in the bank dumps all the pressure back to the tank. If you draw it correctly . This is usual hydraulic set up that used in the manlifts, except tandem center spool. Just closed centre spools with dump valve at the end of the bank. What you can do is get closed centre spool section, or D03 blank and move the function to the first spool that not in use. But most importantly - every time any of function solenoid is energised - the dump valve solenoid is energised also, to block off drain back to tank. Another thing you can do temporarily: move hoses from spool 2 to spool 1, put the plugs in to both port A and port B of the section 2, and energise any of the solenoids in the section 2 together with the dump valve solenoid and the solenoid of the function you want to use. By this you’ll prevent drain back to tank through both - the dump valve and section 2 tandem centre
Does the free spool valve switch as soon as you engage the hydraulics? If so it is probably used as a dump valve when the hydraulics are turned off, the open center spool for the blade is also a secondary dump in case the other one is stuck. redundant safety I believe. The open center on the blade would allow enough circulation in the system to allow flow without opening the relief valve which builds quite a bit of heat when in relief mode. If you are running the hydraulics, which I would venture a guess is running anytime the engine is running, it would also allow you to lower the blade with the engine on and not back feed any of the other circuits if you were to lower the blade with a lot of weight on it. Just a thought Scott
That sounds like the answer the dump valve needs to be energized at the same time a function is energized. Someone post a video of this exact machine being operated when it was first built and the hydraulics were extremely fast acting
🤣Boy, can I relate! My teen daughter comes home “Dad, it’s making a squealing noise”I quickly figure out=front brakes. Sure I’ll fix it. Her, “how long will it take? I have to be somewhere in 45 minutes 😮 I had pads,rotors and calipers with pads. Took it apart,found 1 caliper stuck. 🤔Sure I can rebuild it…NOT IN 45 minutes. Rotors were good. Installed calipers,bled brakes, tested. GOOD to go in 31 minutes. 😅
Wes, I'd expect there to be a dump valve in this setup that needs to be activated whenever you call a function to allow the system to build pressure. Closed center valves and a dump valve is a common setup on man lifts. If your drawings are accurate and there isn't another valve hidden somewhere, I'd move the blade to the unused solenoid #1 and use #2 as your dump. Merry Christmas to you and yours.
I'm an I&C engineer and I agree with your assessment on the schematic. My only thought might be that there is a sufficient restriction in the blade valve to allow the required pressure differential between supply and return. In any troubleshooting the best way to deal with things is to isolate it to one component at a time. Not real easy in a circuit like this!
in my gut feeling, which could be totally wrong: 1st: his thoughts on, that the open center valves wouldn't work ideal in parallel-setup, ... might be irrelevant ,if the pressure provided by the pump is much, much higher than assumed or than it is now. So maybe the pump isn't creating enough pressure or there are some restrictions somewhere. On seconds thought, setting it up in series, would mean that the pressure would decrease unevenly with every added function/valve, or not? you would wanna have the same pressure and speed, evenly supplied to all hydraulic applications, no matter how much of them you use, right? or am I totally wrong here? lol 2nd: I would check religiously EVERY hose and valve for restrictions anyway. When he tested the track movement - it seemed as if the valve wasn't opening and closing totally. The track not stop immediately, might be a sign for that - a hanging valve. flushing out the system, taking out valves and checking them for clearance and function, would be my next step.
No. There is an other gent brush cutting. At one point he wrecks connection at the bottom of the engine. For these motors there are a large variety of aftermarket adaptors. For putting coolers or filters on the engine. So acces or to easy to be damaged might be the reason to relocate stuff. But what you mean is turning it 90°. Acces?
When I was still working as an electronic tech it was easy fixing something that was once working because you find the broken part, replace it and it works again. Working in a manufacturing facility the stuff had never worked and you could have problems from wrong parts, backward parts, bad artwork/built wrong and many other things. With a prototype you have something that may have been a work in progress and may have never, could never work or maybe the engineer was going down a rabbit hole. Anyway you may need to redesign it to make it work but the cost may prohibit it. Good luck, love watching your adventures and your sarcasm is greatly appreciated and confirms to my daughter that others have the same sense of humor. Good luck and Merry Christmas.
Even worse.......when you are the fourth tech they called because the other three parts changing jack wagons couldn't figure it out! Been there, did that way to many times! 👋🤠
But if he really wants to get the hydraulics working, nothing is stopping him from a little more research on the design, possibly research on how to design hydraulics to fix any design issues, and the time and money for any mods. I think what he wants to do with this will determine the path. If I had bought that machine, it wouldn't be to simply get it rolling again. I would want the challenge of getting it completely working remote control and everything.
Man the honesty you share. Most people can't read a basic wire schematic. Here you are building them. But then showing how easy it is to mess up. Been wrenching for 20 years and still to this day will forget to put a nut on a brake line I'm building
A tip for mouse-proofing; I know they sell that Peppermint spray and some people have some success with it. But when we put equipment outside that has electrical in it, we spray down the electrical with bear spray. It leaves behind a residue that the rodentia find very unappealing. You can however get this residue on yourself and inadvertently carry it to your nose or eyes. So just be careful when handling it yourself. Merry Christmas to all !
Interesting. Thank You. I store a motorcycle, under a cover, outside. Haven't had any issues with rodents so far but it is always on my mind. Rodents in machinery (especially wiring) = 🤑🤮🤕🥴😠
Warren from Western Truck and Tractor repair had a series on his channel where he resolved many hydraulic issues on a huge forestry / logging machine. He absolutely nailed the diagnosis and configuration of many control valves on that machine.
Love your drawings. That thing could be a lot more fun than I thought it would be. You could remotely get an Xmas tree from the neighbor's yard right from the comfort of your living room if you make it wireless and put some cameras on it. Have a great Holiday Season!
Interesting that you said Deutz... Dad was the 2nd Deutz dealer in the US for many years. If you want to re-use the copper washers, you can use a propane torch to anneal the copper so it gets softer again to make a good seal, if you don't have new ones. Just don't get it too hot. Merry Christmas Wes!
Merry Christmas Wes, Mrs Wes , Little Wes and Max! Not that many shop can say they have a shop dog and a shop robot, I hope Max doesn't get too jealous!
I don't know the first thing about hydraulics, but I did do some work on air solenoids on a CNC machine while doing a controller retrofit. After futzing for a bit, I just replaced them all with new known working, known spec ones - dealing with old and/or proprietary controls can be a nightmare (oh, yeah, that's designed to work at 37.8vac with an FM modulated control signal or some other crazy bullcrap or "we can't tell you the details unless you become a development partner") and modern stuff is better/cheaper/easier.... I wish you all the luck, but it is a very, very cool project def worth noodling on. Meets all the criteria of mechanical complexity coupled with electronics complexity with weirdness and wireless thrown in for good measure. Never mind the danger factor. Speaking of which, you should def implement a remote kill / deadman switch as a priority.....
Merry Christmas Wes and Family! You have no idea how enjoyable I find your videos. I do this type of work every day, the troubleshooting and learning to understand a problem I find enjoyable. I equate this to others doing crossword puzzles, jigsaw puzzles etc. The only time I don't like it is when the car is broken down and the wife wants to go to town, or you need to get to work in the morning. Thank you for the time you invest in your channel.
@20:22 Maybe that's why it was in a barn collection dust? Maybe all the graduates who worked on this thing have gone on to have prestigious careers at McDonalds?
I'm glad you decided to take a shot at this. It is definitely the project of a lifetime, but it needed to be saved. I hate seeing a one of a kind unit like this rotting away.
I sent you an email after the last video with info about the machine and contact info for the guy who was head over this project. No idea if that contact info is still good but may be worth checking out as maybe he could provide documentation on this machine. If you didn’t get it let me know and I’ll resend. Also I sent a url for the way back machine that has the company’s website with brochures and a video of this machine in operation.
Well! Part 2 was a welcome Christmas present. Your schematic drawings and explanations always make sense to me. I’ve no doubt you will have it sussed by lunchtime Christmas Day. Happy Christmas to you and your family and thank you for entertaining me so well. Healthy and successful 2024 too.
Have you thought about adding an operator platform and converting to manual control? With the remote missing seems like a better option versus trying to rebuild the remote.
No. The guys who designed it said they made an earlier version you could sit on and drive and no one liked it. It was rough and uncomfortable, so they just used the remote.
I worked for Commercial Body back in the day as an automotive electrician, anyway the one thing I did learn is the hydraulics need RPM to work. the hydraulic pump needs like 2500 rpm to work (that is way you hear them rev up right before the hydraulics actuate)
Just wanted to say I love the drawings you do, they are very helpful in understanding whats going on. The ones you've done in the past for 6.0s and 7.3s have been massively helpful to me in diagnosing my own truck. Merry Christmas and Happy New year Wes and family!
Was just going through the back catalogue to try and pick one to watch again, and lo and behold a Christmas Eve gift popped up. Merry Christmas Wes, thanks for the content :)
I suspect the control was setup to actuate the blade control valve when the other functions were being used. E.g., running in the winch might also toggle the blade piston to always push down. Or you might have bad to manually push the blade down button to use the other features. It's possible the solenoid was originally close center, but that would mean the system would always run against the relief at full pressure. You can do that, but it would waste a lot of power and make a ton of heat.
@@WatchWesWork Was the blade at end of stroke? You wouldn't build any meaningful pressure until it hit end of stroke (but of course you know that). The relief may also be stuck open, too.
I'm not sure why they would have the blade constantly bypass, unless they need it like that for a return path on the cylinders that are supposed to move in and out. I get the feeling they're turning multiple solenoid valves on and off at the same time to direct oil flow using that center bypass valve.
This sounds like it makes sense to me, but I have no experience with anything of this nature, the programming would control flow based on the controls and functions called for.
"Rodents!! I Hate Them!" That Is Why You Have Max. No Rodent stands a chance in the realm of Mad Max. Even the Ortho Man is Jealous of Max's Abilities. 🙀🐕🐭🐁🐀🐹💥💥💥💥💢👍🙂
I don't understand much about mechanics or electronics, but I am hooked on your channel . Between, you , White-knuckle towing, Kiddo and Max you create great content. Merry Christmas to the Wes family, and here's to a healthy and prosperous 2024!
Ill duplicate my suggestion here: Move hoses from section 2 to section 1 ( which is not used). Plug both ports A and B of the section 2. Wire in any of solenoids of the section 2 parallel to the solenoid of the dump valve. This way you will effectively close passages that drains pressure back to tank through both - dump valve and section 2 tandem center. And you will have to energise this pair of solenoids every time you energise the solenoid of the function you want to use. This is temporary, until you’ll get the correct spool for section 2.
@@WatchWesWork Well - if pump is shut, there’s nothing you can do about that. Just re read what I wrote, and make sure you are blocking both passages that pressure can be drained through. Also check the O-rings on and PRV it self.
@@WatchWesWork how bout an unfound solenoid stuck in the flow through position? I would think you'd say no to this because you have traced the whole hydraulic system by now.😊
@@WatchWesWorkcan you get a pressure gauge into the pump to watch what happens when solenoids are activated? ... And Christmas greetings from Australia
Excellent video. Lemma see: put together by college students...minimal documentation AND a prototype. Hmm, what could be lacking? Looking forward to the mousetrap puzzle solution in coming episodes.
Just guessing, you will need to energize the open center valve for all functions in order to build pressure. Basically you will need to energize two valves.
I thought about this though I don’t have a lot of experience with hydraulics and “industrial” maintenance I have seen some electrical circuits that work this way for example I have an older Autocrane that has a series of solenoids that must be run at the same time to make a 24 V circuit to power the winches
Merry Christmas to you and your family from New Zealand. Maybe the people who built it didn't know about hydraulics either and thats why it got left where it was. You are a clever mechanic Wes and if you can make it work you will, No pressure. You love a challenge and you have the corn field next door you can run into screaming if you need too if it gets too much. the dog will come looking for you when he gets hungry. LOL
Merry Christmas! I wonder if they were intending the open centre valve to do dual use as an electronically controlled pressure valve and an emergency stop? Obviously would involve the two valves being in the wrong spots.
Props on those diagrams wes! Very nicely done👍 this is my favorite series that you’ve put out so far! I just love this stuff!! And I love how you present it! Great job brother I hope you and the fam have a great Christmas!!
Wes, First, I and many of us want to see this work! Secondly, there are many things that you've identified that you don't know. What I'm convinced is, that this thing worked when it left the shop. I don't know how it works either, but that doesn't mean some guys out there can't help us out. The engine works, and the tracks and grapple work. This is a big win so far. Those inline solenoids need to build pressure to work. We know this. What we don't know is how do we build pressure to them. Well, someone did when they built it, I can tell you that, and someone out there knows. Stay on it, we're with you, buddy.
Nothing like a one off machine to drag Wes and his followers down a very deep rabbit hole. But I am sure that Wes, along with his bunny friends will, with their collective knowledge, find a way to have this tricky beast up and running. Not sure what Wes can use it for as there appears to be a lack of trees around his workshop.
Merry Christmas to you and your family Wes! Interesting to see more of this machine, hopefully someone will help you with the hydraulics and you can get up and running. Looking forward to part 3
I'd suggest adding an analog pressure gauge with a digital output that can trigger when the system is ready. When you request to move one of the hydraulic actuators. It will wait until the pressure has reached a target before enabling the actuator. It will also allow you to troubleshoot what is happening.
Any chance the unused valve is a “lock out valve” and it’s dumping back to tank until it’s energized? Maybe this only gets energized from an output on the wireless receiver when it handshakes with the transmitter so functions are disabled with the transmitter off?
Hey Wes! New follower here since the start of the loggerbot series, and enjoying every bit! Heavy equipment technician by trade, I have this to add from my hydraulics book "Unless an unloading valve is used, only closed-circuit systems with pressure compensated pumps are suitable for parallel manifolds. For series circuits using fixed pumps, the flow path runs from the first valve station’s tank port into the next station’s pressure port." I'm thinking your diagram isn't 100% correct (but very well done none the less!) Im thinking this because the hydraulics worked at one point in time and I doubt its been monkeyed with, but who knows! Always willing to talk equipment if you need another brain. Hope this info helps! Merry Christmas!
Wes I found your channel when you worked on the drag line crane. Hard to describe but this series is more exciting than Christmas when I was little. Happy to learn as you go. Looking forward to part 3.
I love watching your videos.. You remind me of when I was a kid in Arkansas. You are a real mechanic... You fix everything, not just a specific vehicle... Keep it up..
Hello Sir.... Thanks for all your videos in 2023. Love to see you and your family. Like very much whenyou shake your face due to a lot of crab coming in your garage.!!! 🙂 Also like when you take the challenge to fix it.!!! Ha ha.... Sometimes a little funny. Like your humor. Once again :MERRY CHRISTMAS to you and your family. You are all Wonderful. THANKS A LOT. LOVE from Denmark.
I know a lot about a lot of stuff, but I love watching your videos. I have learned more about electronics by watching your videos that I have anywhere else. You are very good at explaining how things work. You would make a great teacher.
My brother Wes used to be called "we-we" when my youngest brother was small. I have not heard that being used for years. Happy New Year to you and your family.
Given that you know this was an unsuccessful prototype project it's probably safer to assume that it never worked well and just alter it to work in a way that makes sense to you. Merry Christmas and a happy new year and thank you for all of your work.
That makes sense to me too, perhaps you could "jerry rig it" using cheap (whatever laying around ) parts (in a sort of organized fashion).Just keep in mind at the end of the day ,its just a simple hydraulic pump controlled by solenoids routing to various actuators-use what you know that works!
I have found doing HVACR Repair for 25 years, you can’t know everything and sometimes you have to ask for help. Appreciate your videos, I hope you and your family had a Merry Christmas and wish you a Happy New Year. Thanks, Wes.
Love ya channel mate. Gave me some good pointers and ideas. As a mechanic my self for last 35yrs. In Australia. U prove I'm never to old to learn new tricks. Lol Good work 🇦🇺
Possible stuck open relief valve. Also, solenoid controlled systems I have worked with typically have an "enable" valve that is energized to provide pressure to the other valves. Maybe that is the function of the valve that is labeled NA in your drawing. Try powering this valve in conjunction with the other functions.
From your drawing, I'd swap the hoses for the blade onto the unused valve. Use the valve currently plumbed up for the blade as an "Enable" valve (make sure the ports are plugged so oil doesn't leak when the slice is operated). You have to switch that and the function you wish to use in combination. The oil will then choose the easiest path, seems a backwards way to do it but if your diagram is how it is currently plumbed that's the only way I can see it working? Usually done like this when remote controls are used or a safety system required as it means you have to have flow enabled and also diverted so two functions before the equipment will operate. Reduces chance of accidental operation.
I've been in industrial maintenance for over 44 year, troubleshooting has always been the most rewarding skill set to have.
Instead of gloating then, HELP THE FELLA
Amen to that😊
Damn straight! and it is fun too!
6 years here was in field service work and switched. Love it most fun you can have with your clothes on lol. Can be a bitch though with him new mag sorters 10 things you get a little speck of metal down in it and it's over It drives me crazy some days
@@staind288he didn’t say he was good at it he just said it’s a good skill to have 😂
Regarding the hydraulics, what you appear to have is a classic closed centre circuit with a dump valve that unloads the flow until pressure is called for and allows the closed centre spools to operate in an open centre circuit. I suspect the blade spool is a mistake by someone in a previous life of the machine. Blank it off and move the blade to the spool you have marked as NA. The spool marked as Free Spool should be the dump valve and it should be returning to tank in the unpowered state. It has to be energised whenever you activate another spool (use double pole switches). Once energised, the spool moves to the blanked off port and raises the circuit pressure. Your diagram doesn't show where the pipe from the free spool goes. If it is not piped to tank I suspect it has previously been used as a carry over spool to another valve chest which then returns the oil to tank. Do you have a free tank return that has nothing connected to it? If you do, make a pipe from the free spool to that return. If you don't, you will have to create one. I should also add, In the previous video you spoke about the computer that controlled the machine. It would have managed the switching of the free spool (dump valve) when the other functions were operated. Love your videos. Keep them coming.
Agreed on this, I think someone messed up the connections. It should be hooked up as you indicated and that open center valve used to toggle the pressure for when there's demand.
I have an alternative theory. The blade hoses are connected to the wrong valve. And, the second valve from the left marked "BLADE" is actually the dump valve. Try moving the blade A and B hoses to the closed valve marked "N/A". And then block off the A and B ports on the valve labelled as "BLADE". That way the default state with no solenoids activated is for all the flow to go straight back to the tank. And to operate any of the functions the "dump" valve must also be activated.
On the other hand, maybe it's a series manifold not a parallel manifold, and all the spools are tandem spools. And the next video will correct this and find the real problem.
Even when i saw the first diagram at 14:00 i thought to myself "There is a high f-up possibility up in there... why is there a not-used circuit/valve?".
There could've been a switcharoo made in the past, parked and forgotten about. Followed by the patina of time masking it as "stock", or as said in the video untampered with.
I'm wondering whether all 4 valves are wired up, or was the N/A valve never wired at all (or the wires were swapped and/or cut by someone "fixing" a defective valve or solenoid). If there are 4 sets of solenoid control wires then my money is on a prior "fix" that messed everything up.
Strongly suspect this is correct. Would encourage you to email Wes a diagram to be sure he sees this solution. Blade spool I agree may be red Herring that does not belong. Important Wes sees this comment to save time.
Can’t wait for Part 3. Merry Christmas to you and the family!
Hopefully coming soon. Merry Christmas!
Spoilers bro
Who knows if Wes can get this thing running good enough he can do away with White Knuckle Towing.
Wes, if there's anyone on this planet that can figure out how to get that little Frankenstein contraption up and working it's you.
Just step back,scratch your brain and I've no doubt that you'll have an Aahha moment.
Of course some advice from us Peanut gallery members might help.
Anyways, A Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you and your family.
I'm pretty sure that Santa is gonna spoil a certain little boy.
No not you Wes, your wee little Son.
Mommy is in charge of spoiling you.
Hi Wes Merry Christmas to you all I’m pretty sure you will figure this out and have it working for sure ,you defo lost me just with the wiring never mind the hydraulics lol take care and all the best for 2024 ❤️👍👌🔧🔧🔧🐾🐾🦴🦴
DaveCAD/AvECAD are great, and BigClive does amazing circuit diagrams...but Wes is on a level of his own with his drawings
It’s the engineering paper. It automatically elevates sketches by at least 36%
@@dcviper985 37.5%
It’s oem schematic worthy
@@dcviper985That engineering paper is life to anyone who went through any sort of engineering coursework (that how I knew was was from my people when I started watching). I can’t sketch a straight line without it.
that's a green ampad, the best of the best for engineering graph paper.
Wes sneaking in a classic pencil sketch just before year end! Awesome. Thanks for sharing your video stories with us this year and best wishes to you, Mrs Wes and kiddo.
His sketches are getting better and better. Don't forget Max! 😆😀😉
Why do I keep envisioning this thing ripping uncontrolled through the shop like a velociraptor leaving a road runner style hole in the back wall.....Merry Christmas to you and your family
Probably because it's happened before!
Clever girl....
Thought the same thing!
Wes could use another door in the back end of the shop 😎
You know he's just going to use it to haul more -crap- projects into the shop. 🤣
Yep - the second spool in the bank dumps all the pressure back to the tank. If you draw it correctly .
This is usual hydraulic set up that used in the manlifts, except tandem center spool.
Just closed centre spools with dump valve at the end of the bank. What you can do is get closed centre spool section, or D03 blank and move the function to the first spool that not in use.
But most importantly - every time any of function solenoid is energised - the dump valve solenoid is energised also, to block off drain back to tank.
Another thing you can do temporarily: move hoses from spool 2 to spool 1, put the plugs in to both port A and port B of the section 2, and energise any of the solenoids in the section 2 together with the dump valve solenoid and the solenoid of the function you want to use. By this you’ll prevent drain back to tank through both - the dump valve and section 2 tandem centre
Great info
Does the free spool valve switch as soon as you engage the hydraulics? If so it is probably used as a dump valve when the hydraulics are turned off, the open center spool for the blade is also a secondary dump in case the other one is stuck. redundant safety I believe. The open center on the blade would allow enough circulation in the system to allow flow without opening the relief valve which builds quite a bit of heat when in relief mode.
If you are running the hydraulics, which I would venture a guess is running anytime the engine is running, it would also allow you to lower the blade with the engine on and not back feed any of the other circuits if you were to lower the blade with a lot of weight on it.
Just a thought
Scott
That sounds like the answer the dump valve needs to be energized at the same time a function is energized. Someone post a video of this exact machine being operated when it was first built and the hydraulics were extremely fast acting
I think your right
🤣Boy, can I relate! My teen daughter comes home “Dad, it’s making a squealing noise”I quickly figure out=front brakes. Sure I’ll fix it. Her, “how long will it take? I have to be somewhere in 45 minutes 😮 I had pads,rotors and calipers with pads. Took it apart,found 1 caliper stuck. 🤔Sure I can rebuild it…NOT IN 45 minutes. Rotors were good. Installed calipers,bled brakes, tested. GOOD to go in 31 minutes. 😅
Wes, I'd expect there to be a dump valve in this setup that needs to be activated whenever you call a function to allow the system to build pressure. Closed center valves and a dump valve is a common setup on man lifts. If your drawings are accurate and there isn't another valve hidden somewhere, I'd move the blade to the unused solenoid #1 and use #2 as your dump. Merry Christmas to you and yours.
I think that's the secret.
you said dump valve hahaha
@BreatheScotlandFire!fire! Ha!ha!ha!
On prototypes it always possible that the valves are functioning different as marked on them. Sometimes you just change some parts or internals
@BreatheScotland you mean the 90s!
I'm an I&C engineer and I agree with your assessment on the schematic. My only thought might be that there is a sufficient restriction in the blade valve to allow the required pressure differential between supply and return. In any troubleshooting the best way to deal with things is to isolate it to one component at a time. Not real easy in a circuit like this!
I have found flappers inside hydraulic hoses that can cause issues like you are having, just a thought
in my gut feeling, which could be totally wrong:
1st: his thoughts on, that the open center valves wouldn't work ideal in parallel-setup, ... might be irrelevant ,if the pressure provided by the pump is much, much higher than assumed or than it is now. So maybe the pump isn't creating enough pressure or there are some restrictions somewhere.
On seconds thought, setting it up in series, would mean that the pressure would decrease unevenly with every added function/valve, or not? you would wanna have the same pressure and speed, evenly supplied to all hydraulic applications, no matter how much of them you use, right?
or am I totally wrong here? lol
2nd: I would check religiously EVERY hose and valve for restrictions anyway. When he tested the track movement - it seemed as if the valve wasn't opening and closing totally. The track not stop immediately, might be a sign for that - a hanging valve. flushing out the system, taking out valves and checking them for clearance and function, would be my next step.
Always amazed when “folks” go through all the trouble of remote mounting a filter, then put the remote mount sideways…
To be fair, the original mount is also sidewards.
try replacing the filters on a nissan gu , 2000, 4x4, 4.2tdi.. hate jap sht..@@WatchWesWork
No. There is an other gent brush cutting. At one point he wrecks connection at the bottom of the engine. For these motors there are a large variety of aftermarket adaptors. For putting coolers or filters on the engine. So acces or to easy to be damaged might be the reason to relocate stuff.
But what you mean is turning it 90°. Acces?
When I was still working as an electronic tech it was easy fixing something that was once working because you find the broken part, replace it and it works again. Working in a manufacturing facility the stuff had never worked and you could have problems from wrong parts, backward parts, bad artwork/built wrong and many other things. With a prototype you have something that may have been a work in progress and may have never, could never work or maybe the engineer was going down a rabbit hole. Anyway you may need to redesign it to make it work but the cost may prohibit it. Good luck, love watching your adventures and your sarcasm is greatly appreciated and confirms to my daughter that others have the same sense of humor. Good luck and Merry Christmas.
Even worse.......when you are the fourth tech they called because the other three parts changing jack wagons couldn't figure it out! Been there, did that way to many times! 👋🤠
But if he really wants to get the hydraulics working, nothing is stopping him from a little more research on the design, possibly research on how to design hydraulics to fix any design issues, and the time and money for any mods. I think what he wants to do with this will determine the path. If I had bought that machine, it wouldn't be to simply get it rolling again. I would want the challenge of getting it completely working remote control and everything.
Way to go on stating the obvious.
@@Asomesauc Thanks, the comment was for Wes but if it hit home you are welcome!
Yep I prefer working on unmolested devices. Once idiots get in there yikes
Man the honesty you share. Most people can't read a basic wire schematic. Here you are building them. But then showing how easy it is to mess up. Been wrenching for 20 years and still to this day will forget to put a nut on a brake line I'm building
Most people don't have Electrical Engineering degrees either.
A tip for mouse-proofing; I know they sell that Peppermint spray and some people have some success with it. But when we put equipment outside that has electrical in it, we spray down the electrical with bear spray. It leaves behind a residue that the rodentia find very unappealing. You can however get this residue on yourself and inadvertently carry it to your nose or eyes. So just be careful when handling it yourself. Merry Christmas to all !
I used the peppermint spray in my popup camper. Not sure if it worked. The lift cable broke and I can't open it up.
Interesting. Thank You. I store a motorcycle, under a cover, outside. Haven't had any issues with rodents so far but it is always on my mind.
Rodents in machinery (especially wiring) = 🤑🤮🤕🥴😠
you might just put some on a sponge or something like that so you can get it out of the way when working on stuff @@jlucasound
I suppose if you did get in on yourself you can rest knowing that you won`t get rodents in your nether regions whilst asleep 😀
Those are not the nuts they're looking for@@robfinch1522
Warren from Western Truck and Tractor repair had a series on his channel where he resolved many hydraulic issues on a huge forestry / logging machine. He absolutely nailed the diagnosis and configuration of many control valves on that machine.
I have no doubt Warren coud figure it out in no time.
It always pays to know a guy or three, someone can will be able to help you figure it out. Merry Christmas to you and yours.
I sure hope so. Merry Christmas!
...but Wes IS that guy... it's like... who does superman call?
@@TheBry_Guy Superman calls Chuck Norris but they’re both afraid to call Wes and he answer the phone!
Batman@@TheBry_Guy
New drinking game. Everytime Wes says "Rodent", take a shot
Love your drawings. That thing could be a lot more fun than I thought it would be. You could remotely get an Xmas tree from the neighbor's yard right from the comfort of your living room if you make it wireless and put some cameras on it. Have a great Holiday Season!
Heh. Trolling the neighbors by remote!
@@WatchWesWork WWWIA?
Hey now, be careful what you are suggesting! This could lead to a career in porch piracy in which all TrAcKs lead back home!
Like the fully decorated tree in their living room. That would be a great video to watch.
@@WatchWesWork- Like those poor schlubs living next to the Griswalds. 😊
Interesting that you said Deutz... Dad was the 2nd Deutz dealer in the US for many years. If you want to re-use the copper washers, you can use a propane torch to anneal the copper so it gets softer again to make a good seal, if you don't have new ones. Just don't get it too hot. Merry Christmas Wes!
This thing is a hoot. Merry Christmas to you and yours and all of the Wesaholics 🎉
Merry Christmas Wes, Mrs Wes , Little Wes and Max! Not that many shop can say they have a shop dog and a shop robot, I hope Max doesn't get too jealous!
🤣😂😉😁😍
What does Max have to be jealous about? I don't see the robot catching any mice even if it did work!
@rsmith3062 Nor would the robot even diagnose a rodent problem. "Max is never wrong."
Wes and Max are best diagnosing team on RUclips.
I don't know the first thing about hydraulics, but I did do some work on air solenoids on a CNC machine while doing a controller retrofit. After futzing for a bit, I just replaced them all with new known working, known spec ones - dealing with old and/or proprietary controls can be a nightmare (oh, yeah, that's designed to work at 37.8vac with an FM modulated control signal or some other crazy bullcrap or "we can't tell you the details unless you become a development partner") and modern stuff is better/cheaper/easier....
I wish you all the luck, but it is a very, very cool project def worth noodling on. Meets all the criteria of mechanical complexity coupled with electronics complexity with weirdness and wireless thrown in for good measure. Never mind the danger factor. Speaking of which, you should def implement a remote kill / deadman switch as a priority.....
Nice work getting the some of the hydrolics working 17:46 @Watch Wes Work
Merry Christmas Wes and Family! You have no idea how enjoyable I find your videos. I do this type of work every day, the troubleshooting and learning to understand a problem I find enjoyable. I equate this to others doing crossword puzzles, jigsaw puzzles etc. The only time I don't like it is when the car is broken down and the wife wants to go to town, or you need to get to work in the morning. Thank you for the time you invest in your channel.
At a point I realized I was watching Frankenstein when the crazed Doctor screams, It's alive ! It's alive!
@20:22 Maybe that's why it was in a barn collection dust? Maybe all the graduates who worked on this thing have gone on to have prestigious careers at McDonalds?
I'm glad you decided to take a shot at this. It is definitely the project of a lifetime, but it needed to be saved. I hate seeing a one of a kind unit like this rotting away.
Maybe the blade have to be pinned in the down positions for the other functions to work, a "safety feature" because how light the unit is.
That’s a good thought.
That is actually a good possibility. One of the first things I thought of as well!
I sent you an email after the last video with info about the machine and contact info for the guy who was head over this project. No idea if that contact info is still good but may be worth checking out as maybe he could provide documentation on this machine. If you didn’t get it let me know and I’ll resend. Also I sent a url for the way back machine that has the company’s website with brochures and a video of this machine in operation.
get a pressure test on pump and start isolating/ bypassing valves. Job done!!
Sounds good!
This is your classic underdog story. You win some you lose some.
Well! Part 2 was a welcome Christmas present. Your schematic drawings and explanations always make sense to me. I’ve no doubt you will have it sussed by lunchtime Christmas Day.
Happy Christmas to you and your family and thank you for entertaining me so well. Healthy and successful 2024 too.
Very professional drawing for the electric/hydraulic system. I was not surprised to see this knowing you.
Have you thought about adding an operator platform and converting to manual control? With the remote missing seems like a better option versus trying to rebuild the remote.
Also Merry Christmas... love the content on your channel.
No. The guys who designed it said they made an earlier version you could sit on and drive and no one liked it. It was rough and uncomfortable, so they just used the remote.
@@WatchWesWork You got in touch with the original designers? That's cool. They can't provide any hydraulic/control schematics?
I worked for Commercial Body back in the day as an automotive electrician, anyway the one thing I did learn is the hydraulics need RPM to work. the hydraulic pump needs like 2500 rpm to work (that is way you hear them rev up right before the hydraulics actuate)
Part two of this series with a part three promise are the best things I have ever gotten for Christmas.
I know it's a grind, but I like seeing the problems overcome on a unique machine.
Just wanted to say I love the drawings you do, they are very helpful in understanding whats going on. The ones you've done in the past for 6.0s and 7.3s have been massively helpful to me in diagnosing my own truck. Merry Christmas and Happy New year Wes and family!
I saw that grapple start to move and shouted, “It’s ALIVE!”
Was just going through the back catalogue to try and pick one to watch again, and lo and behold a Christmas Eve gift popped up. Merry Christmas Wes, thanks for the content :)
I can hardly wait for part 3, when you say, "Eat your heart out Logger Wade!" 🤣
Thanks for the early Christmas present Wes I'm seriously enjoying the robot logging machine series cant wait for part 3
Send it over to the Amish and they'll have everything working on manual controls in no time....lol!
Merry Christmas everyone!
I suspect the control was setup to actuate the blade control valve when the other functions were being used. E.g., running in the winch might also toggle the blade piston to always push down. Or you might have bad to manually push the blade down button to use the other features.
It's possible the solenoid was originally close center, but that would mean the system would always run against the relief at full pressure. You can do that, but it would waste a lot of power and make a ton of heat.
That might be. I did try actuating the blade and arm at the same time and it didn't work.
@@WatchWesWork Was the blade at end of stroke? You wouldn't build any meaningful pressure until it hit end of stroke (but of course you know that). The relief may also be stuck open, too.
If you can get it up and running sure would make a great remote controlled snow plow. Would be nice to be able to plow the drive whilst in the warm.
I'm not sure why they would have the blade constantly bypass, unless they need it like that for a return path on the cylinders that are supposed to move in and out. I get the feeling they're turning multiple solenoid valves on and off at the same time to direct oil flow using that center bypass valve.
This sounds like it makes sense to me, but I have no experience with anything of this nature, the programming would control flow based on the controls and functions called for.
"Rodents!! I Hate Them!" That Is Why You Have Max. No Rodent stands a chance in the realm of Mad Max. Even the Ortho Man is Jealous of Max's Abilities.
🙀🐕🐭🐁🐀🐹💥💥💥💥💢👍🙂
I don't understand much about mechanics or electronics, but I am hooked on your channel . Between, you , White-knuckle towing, Kiddo and Max you create great content. Merry Christmas to the Wes family, and here's to a healthy and prosperous 2024!
Hi, Wes, This is Ray,from Pa.. Just wanted to let you know I love your sense of humor. Gotta laugh or you might cry!
Ill duplicate my suggestion here:
Move hoses from section 2 to section 1 ( which is not used).
Plug both ports A and B of the section 2.
Wire in any of solenoids of the section 2 parallel to the solenoid of the dump valve.
This way you will effectively close passages that drains pressure back to tank through both - dump valve and section 2 tandem center.
And you will have to energise this pair of solenoids every time you energise the solenoid of the function you want to use.
This is temporary, until you’ll get the correct spool for section 2.
I did try that, more or less, and it still did not build pressure. I think there is something I'm missing.
@@WatchWesWork Well - if pump is shut, there’s nothing you can do about that.
Just re read what I wrote, and make sure you are blocking both passages that pressure can be drained through.
Also check the O-rings on and PRV it self.
Check the maximum pressure valve too!
@@WatchWesWork how bout an unfound solenoid stuck in the flow through position? I would think you'd say no to this because you have traced the whole hydraulic system by now.😊
@@WatchWesWorkcan you get a pressure gauge into the pump to watch what happens when solenoids are activated?
... And Christmas greetings from Australia
That hydraulic schematic is beautiful.
Wes, Thanks for another year of mechanical insight and droll commentary! Merry Christmas to you and your family.
Excellent video. Lemma see: put together by college students...minimal documentation AND a prototype. Hmm, what could be lacking? Looking forward to the mousetrap puzzle solution in coming episodes.
Just guessing, you will need to energize the open center valve for all functions in order to build pressure. Basically you will need to energize two valves.
I thought about this though I don’t have a lot of experience with hydraulics and “industrial” maintenance I have seen some electrical circuits that work this way for example I have an older Autocrane that has a series of solenoids that must be run at the same time to make a 24 V circuit to power the winches
Merry Christmas!
Looking forward to Part 3
Thanks for sharing 🇨🇦
Merry Christmas to you and your family from New Zealand. Maybe the people who built it didn't know about hydraulics either and thats why it got left where it was. You are a clever mechanic Wes and if you can make it work you will, No pressure. You love a challenge and you have the corn field next door you can run into screaming if you need too if it gets too much. the dog will come looking for you when he gets hungry. LOL
My last project was cleaning up an old dyson and converting to dewalt batteries, this is next level.
Merry Christmas!
I wonder if they were intending the open centre valve to do dual use as an electronically controlled pressure valve and an emergency stop? Obviously would involve the two valves being in the wrong spots.
You might be on to something.
The most anticipated sequel of 2023!
Props on those diagrams wes! Very nicely done👍 this is my favorite series that you’ve put out so far! I just love this stuff!! And I love how you present it! Great job brother I hope you and the fam have a great Christmas!!
Wes, First, I and many of us want to see this work! Secondly, there are many things that you've identified that you don't know. What I'm convinced is, that this thing worked when it left the shop. I don't know how it works either, but that doesn't mean some guys out there can't help us out. The engine works, and the tracks and grapple work. This is a big win so far. Those inline solenoids need to build pressure to work. We know this. What we don't know is how do we build pressure to them. Well, someone did when they built it, I can tell you that, and someone out there knows. Stay on it, we're with you, buddy.
Merry Christmas to you and your family. Thank you for all of the effort you put into your videos. Example: that drawing!
iv enjoyed all your repairs in 2023 hope you had a good christmas and i wish you and your family a happy new year from oxfordshire GB see you soon 🤓👌✌
Your videos are so much more fun and educational than you think. Merry Christmas to you and your beautiful family from sunny Arizona.
Your drawings and schematics are a thing of beauty!
Awesome work. Ready for part 3. Merry Christmas to you and the family Wes
Nothing like a one off machine to drag Wes and his followers down a very deep rabbit hole. But I am sure that Wes, along with his bunny friends will, with their collective knowledge, find a way to have this tricky beast up and running. Not sure what Wes can use it for as there appears to be a lack of trees around his workshop.
Merry Christmas to you and your family Wes! Interesting to see more of this machine, hopefully someone will help you with the hydraulics and you can get up and running. Looking forward to part 3
When you put the claw on, I was thinking, Danger Danger Will Robinson.
Merry Christmas to you and your family! Love the channel Wes.
🎄🎅👍🎄
I'm surprised the folks whom designed and built it haven't contacted you yet. I hope they do. Thanks for another interesting vid!
Prototype machines?.
@@2nickles647 I don't understand your point.
Merry Christmas Wes to you and your family. Thanks for a great year of videos.
I'd suggest adding an analog pressure gauge with a digital output that can trigger when the system is ready. When you request to move one of the hydraulic actuators. It will wait until the pressure has reached a target before enabling the actuator. It will also allow you to troubleshoot what is happening.
Any chance the unused valve is a “lock out valve” and it’s dumping back to tank until it’s energized? Maybe this only gets energized from an output on the wireless receiver when it handshakes with the transmitter so functions are disabled with the transmitter off?
LOL, you explaining the hydraulic system reminds me of the Star Trek TNG episode where Riker is explaining the computer to a Ferengi.
Merry Christmas to you and your family. Best wishes for 2024 lets hope it's a mouse free one!
A good brainteaser, for sure. You’ll get it eventually, I have no doubt. Merry Christmas and thanks for all you do!
Hey Wes! New follower here since the start of the loggerbot series, and enjoying every bit!
Heavy equipment technician by trade, I have this to add from my hydraulics book "Unless an unloading valve is used, only closed-circuit systems with pressure compensated pumps are suitable for parallel manifolds. For series circuits using fixed pumps, the flow path runs from the first valve station’s tank port into the next station’s pressure port."
I'm thinking your diagram isn't 100% correct (but very well done none the less!) Im thinking this because the hydraulics worked at one point in time and I doubt its been monkeyed with, but who knows! Always willing to talk equipment if you need another brain. Hope this info helps!
Merry Christmas!
Thanks for the video, always enjoy watching!
This has always been my church on Sunday watching wes work, thank you Wes and merry Christmas to you and your family 🎄🎁👍
Merry Christmas to you all from Denmark.
a chrome plated small block crankshaft to boot...thats when I turned it off...
Yes!
Wes I found your channel when you worked on the drag line crane. Hard to describe but this series is more exciting than Christmas when I was little. Happy to learn as you go. Looking forward to part 3.
Regular rubber hose on return do not last longer then 2-3 months. At least on Deutz
Is it because of the heat?
@@WatchWesWork Yes
Those guys were not kidding about the quality of the drawing.
I love watching your videos.. You remind me of when I was a kid in Arkansas. You are a real mechanic... You fix everything, not just a specific vehicle... Keep it up..
Hello Sir.... Thanks for all your videos in 2023. Love to see you and your family. Like very much whenyou shake your face due to a lot of crab coming in your garage.!!! 🙂 Also like when you take the challenge to fix it.!!! Ha ha.... Sometimes a little funny. Like your humor. Once again :MERRY CHRISTMAS to you and your family. You are all Wonderful. THANKS A LOT. LOVE from Denmark.
I know a lot about a lot of stuff, but I love watching your videos. I have learned more about electronics by watching your videos that I have anywhere else. You are very good at explaining how things work. You would make a great teacher.
My brother Wes used to be called "we-we" when my youngest brother was small. I have not heard that being used for years. Happy New Year to you and your family.
Given that you know this was an unsuccessful prototype project it's probably safer to assume that it never worked well and just alter it to work in a way that makes sense to you. Merry Christmas and a happy new year and thank you for all of your work.
That makes sense to me too, perhaps you could "jerry rig it" using cheap (whatever laying around ) parts (in a sort of organized fashion).Just keep in mind at the end of the day ,its just a simple hydraulic pump controlled by solenoids routing to various actuators-use what you know that works!
I have found doing HVACR Repair for 25 years, you can’t know everything and sometimes you have to ask for help. Appreciate your videos, I hope you and your family had a Merry Christmas and wish you a Happy New Year. Thanks, Wes.
I have faith in you, it’ll take time but you will get it functioning properly.
This is _WAY_ more dystopian than a Terex deck crane, but i think you and Sam need to have a battle of the robots. 😂
Love ya channel mate.
Gave me some good pointers and ideas.
As a mechanic my self for last 35yrs. In Australia. U prove I'm never to old to learn new tricks. Lol
Good work 🇦🇺
You'll figure it Wes,Merry Christmas from England
Looks like a stump grinder had a baby with a mini skid. I can only imagine the problems it will have growing up.
Possible stuck open relief valve.
Also, solenoid controlled systems I have worked with typically have an "enable" valve that is energized to provide pressure to the other valves. Maybe that is the function of the valve that is labeled NA in your drawing. Try powering this valve in conjunction with the other functions.
Yes diagrams, you sir are awesome at diagrams and explaining ur thought process, thank u
Hey, that much closer to your ATM Theftbot!
From your drawing, I'd swap the hoses for the blade onto the unused valve. Use the valve currently plumbed up for the blade as an "Enable" valve (make sure the ports are plugged so oil doesn't leak when the slice is operated). You have to switch that and the function you wish to use in combination. The oil will then choose the easiest path, seems a backwards way to do it but if your diagram is how it is currently plumbed that's the only way I can see it working? Usually done like this when remote controls are used or a safety system required as it means you have to have flow enabled and also diverted so two functions before the equipment will operate. Reduces chance of accidental operation.
Man That thing sounds just like my 2 cyl Duetz on my 1983 trencher