Filter Wine - Coffee Filter?
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- Опубликовано: 9 фев 2019
- Filter Wine with a Coffee Filter? Should you? This applies to wine, mead, cider, and even beer. A LOT of people have been asking lately if this is something that could work. It's not so much a question of "can it work", it's more, "should you do it". Brian explains the issues that you might encounter when filtering fermented alcohol through a coffee filter. He uses wine, but as we said, this applies to any homebrew.
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Some links to items used in the Video:
* Blue Glass Swing Top Bottles amzn.to/2SGvv5A
* Swing Top Bottles amzn.to/2GhkqSV
* Autosiphon amzn.to/2MYNtLn
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I just strain it through the few teeth I have left and chew the chunks.
Lol
hahaha
🤣
Ik a buddy j like this lmao made my day
A trooper!
I've done this and can definitely say that it takes a VERY LONG TIME! Don't do this. Listen to Brian.
Should i just siphon?
Same XD
Yes, siphon.
Loving the one on one feel this has. Definently keep these kinds of videos on small topics. Short and sweet with a little information
Thanks, we are trying new things!
Thank you for the clarity Brian.
Thanks for sending me this. It was informative. I'm doing research now. Getting the base knowledge about to get my a bunch of tools to start.
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction!
Great video - short, informative and just enough information to mull over.
Fantastic video, love the way you laid out the example and info. Keep up the great work! :)
Thank you!
Thanks Brian.
Love your video's.
I'm new to brewing since watching your videos. Have a traditional mead bubbling away right now.
Look forward to trying it.
Awesome! Thanks for watching!
Thank you for the PSA :) Trying to filter anything thru a coffee filter, beyond coffee, is a time-consuming mess.
Actually most of them suck for coffee too!
Back in the 90s whenI I used to brew white wine, I just left it until the sediment was almost solid. The wine got clear and tasted OK - or so I thought at the time, haha.
Great video, thanks for the info.
I love the way this was shot. Good lighting, focus, etc.
Thank you for noticing! We are working hard to improve our production value!
Very clever execution Brian
Thank you kindly
Very informative Brian
I did this with my first Mead. It was a Maple Blueberry Mead, and after properly siphoning my 4x750ml bottles that I left to age, I got about 250ml into the 500ml Maple Syrup bottle, with a swing top, that I had used for the mead. I ran what was left through a coffee filter and got another 250ml of mead, filling the Maple Syrup bottle, but it took about 15 minutes and still came out a milky colour. I chilled it and drank it green later that night. I did the same when I first racked it, though that time I only did enough to fill a small glass for sampling. Vinegar was not really a worry, when I was going to drink it right away.
LOL my wife did this today with her first brew of vinegar... er... I mean delicious cider... I got the proper supplies (including siphon) to do a different brew. I'll follow Brian's steps through what I've seen throughout the other vids. I bet it'll taste amazing!
Anything Apple I love. More Apple beverages please!
My paint sprayer has a rough screen on the bottom of the paint pickup (called a rock catcher) and I've thought something like this would possibly be a good way to add some filtration to the siphoning process. It would be hard to get the screen size right, and that seems like it would vary depending on what you have in the primary...
Really love how commited to simple home brewing you are, i'm on my 4th gallon batch now and they have all turned out great thanks to you, my latest brew has a LOTof lees and i dont want to lose too much, any ideas how to save as much as poss?
Let sit there as long as possible without any movement. Have brews that were cloudy for 2 years and then became almost clear in the 3rd year. The yeast will sink to the bottom, but it couls take - literally -years. If you can wait, do it. If not... Enjoy your drink. It's cloudy, it's not poisonous
I just now tried filtering a half gallon of "Welch's Reserve" through my Aeropress with double filters. Did not work just wasted about 30 minutes. I've come to embrace the yeast and I really don't mind it. My wife on the other hand, just knowing it's there, it puts her off. She prefers sweet red wine, so I poured her a glass of my DIY and she didn't notice until I asked her if she noticed anything different and after her asking enough times why there were condom wrappers in the trash I finally broke down and bought some damn airlocks. I think my next move is a 5 gallon batch of Welch's Reserve(wow, just googed how many bottles 5 gallons make, 24!) I also threw in a handful each of dried white grapes and cherries to use instead of yeast nutrient and there are no complaints here. Happy fermenting!
Very well done video. Looks great.
Thank you!
35 seconds in and I can tell this is gonna be good. I did this when I first started brewing because I lacked the funds to do it properly... it didn't work out as well and it takes way too long anyways. Took hours to do a gallon of brew. EDIT: I didn't think of the whole air thing. Which explains why it tasted nasty lol. Not to mention it doesn't get all the lees and sediment at the bottom.
What about a Britta filter? Just before drinking?
@@zebman74 there is active charcoal in there. You would filter out the majority of flavours.
I just made a bunch of beer and I ended up with a couple of bottles to fill and I ended up with some yeast at the bottom. I was really hoping to click on here and have the magic answer just give to me LOL but I get it. I just think I’ll rack it a couple more times than usual. Thanks.
On top of everything else that Brian has said, I have found in my experience that yeast are too small for the holes in the coffee filter to catch them all.
Woow I got alot of information thanks dude
Thank you for the tip! 😊
Ah, answers my question, thank you.
yeah... tried this with my last batch of mead since i havent gotten my siphon yet... didnt work very well. i did better with just pouring until i started getting sediment and stopping with a little liquid loss. siphon is next on my buy list.
Thank you. I learned something on vinegar and saving the wine :)
I've left the leas behind because they go in with the flour and become focaccia the next day. An important point about the acetobacter. They are toxic to lactobacter. Lactobacter is a good bacteria that makes a lot of what we all love, from sauerkraut to yogurt to sour dough bread. Lactobacter also plays a role in the aging process of brews lending a healthy acid over time, but an acetobacter infection that may not result in vinegar could result in none of the benefits of lactobacter because it killed them off with the resulting brew still being bad.
How well does it work when used with distillate?
my mother suggested using coffee filters three separate times so far to save the leftover wine or mead after racking before. I told her repeatedly why it doesn't work, but she still suggests it
Well now you can show her this video! 😃 👍
I used a fine muslin cloth , it was brilliant
@CityStandingBrews Question what about whole house filter systems can these work without changing the taste of the wine? I mean it would be the cloth filters yes more expensive but if worth it then great. Please and thank you for any feed back
I never thought of filtering the whole mead batch but I do want to try to use the filter only on the last bit that I can't get with the siphon. Since I an intending to drink it right away, the air thing isn't an issue. However, watching your demonstration, that brew seems very cloudy after going through the filter. Not sure the Coffee filter is fine enough to get the lees out at all. Thanks for the demo.
I remember brewing for the first time, I brewed maple syrup wine in a glass milk jug that I saved from the recycling and cleaned out(was 14 didn't have too many options). I actually used a fine metal mesh strainer it sorta worked just yeeted the solids in the trash periodically too speed it up. Worked ok I guess but the auto sythene is better.
just a thought, could you use the filter in the end of the hose when your doing your first rack? If it's on the end of the hose in the bottle it wouldn't be introducing air and it might give more surface area as to not clog, again it's just a thought.
Wouldn't it just clog at the end of the tube?
I have just looked into the wine filter. Do you think this would be a good addition to the final process? The buon Vino?
Never tried, and likely won't... seems just an added expense to me. I'm all about keeping things simple. :)
GREAT VIDEO ! Coffee Filter .. ...,ok i did it to. & .PORTAFILTER BASKET too !!!
I started fermenting mead about a year and a half ago. I initially made three, one gallon batches: a show mead, a black berry melomel, and another show mead. I havent tasted the third batch yet, but the first two I have drank several bottles of. The black berry melomel, after 6 months of aging, was pretty tasty. I just opened a bottle of the 1st batch last week and it tasted like it went bad. I thought it may have been the leas that were still in the bottle (being inexperienced and lazy I dont think I racked enough/I should have tried cold crashing). Is there some other reason why it would taste bad? It started off pretty astringent (alcohol forward), but with aging settled into what I expected it to taste like with some very off underlying notes. I'm fairly certain I went above and beyond sanitizing every time I handled the mead. I used Lalvin QA23 yeast. My only thought is that I left the mead sitting on leas for too long.
Also, I use cheesecloth that I boil, in combination with a metal sieve/colander, and a pouring pitcher when I go to drink the mead. It filters out larger sediment without taking a while.
Finally, I enjoy watching your videos! I wish I had found them before I first started!
Well, sitting on lees for years can do that. If you have to filter your mead before drinking it... there's the problem.
Even doing the cold brew coffee, it's impossible to strain it through a coffee filter. There's just too much ultra fine particles that clogs up the filter.
Agreed. I keep my grind coarse with a burr grinder and that helps a lot.
Good stuff!
Thank you for your good experiment and explanation. Can we keep mead long for aging and does aged mead taste better?
Yes, and yes. Properly bottled, it can last for years and gets better with time.
I did try a piece of coffee filter on the exit end of the siphon. I had a couple of blowouts but didn't really see advantage when it didn't blow out.
Great video thanks
Never did the coffee filter however I just purchased a filter and pump to try. Not so much to filter anything you can get out with a siphon and racking but to polish the wine before bottling. We shall see how that goes.
Ok I have a question. I made a strawberry apple mead and I realized upon racking for the secondary that I completely f@&%ed up out the gate because I forgot to take a gravity reading. Usually when making a,,, higher abv drink that's not a problem or so I hear wink wink whistle whistle. So at this point can I ever figure out the abv or am I just S.O.L.?
It certainly did work, and I didn’t oxidize it, but my goodness it took forever, so yeah haha
I have some 2 year old bottled mead that has some junk left in it. Still taste good. How would filter this? Have you ever tried using a water filter pitcher?
I wouldn't, just don't shake it up and pour carefully.
I won't bore you with all of the details on how I made my Homebrew wine, but my concern is after I added the yeast, it became very cloudy. I tried to filter it through a glass drip coffee maker which has a spaghetti strainer and I used a coffee filter. Unfortunately it didn't take out very much of the cloudy substance out of my brew. I'm wondering what I can do to make it as clear as when I first started before the yeast? Please note, I made this as a homebrew, and I don't have the expensive or fancy equipment that most Professional Brewers have. If I really had to, I could make a filter out of charcoal and some other sediment capture layers in order to potentially remove the cloudy look, but I want a professional opinion or perhaps your comment section, seeing how they seem to be well knowledgeable on this subject. Any help would be much greatly appreciated. This is my first time actually attempting this on purpose, and I want to get the best product possible for my own first attempt. It may not look the greatest, but it does taste like wine, but I noticed it does kind of smell off, when I first brewed it, it had a wine slash beer smell to it, but now I think I'm starting to smell a vinegar smell to it, not what you think wine should smell like. But then again, it is my first attempt, and I'm kind of playing around with it too, dialing things in.
I tried doing it when straining my ginger tea for ginger beer. I gave up quickly and just used the strainer :P
Hi Brian. I’m looking for a good home brew filter. I work at a commercial distillery and winery. We use a cross flow filter to filter our finished wines and plate and frame filter pads for spirits. Is there some type of home brew filtering system that will achieve the same results.
I have never filtered any of our brews.
Meh I bought a siphon to rack my wine with a filter on the end, but the end that goes into secondary doesnt have a tube beyond the pump... so that means the wine has to go through all the air from the top of the 2ndary all the way to the bottom... I dont understand why they would make a siphon specifically for wine making that forces you to make the wine drip all the way from the top to the bottom like that... =/
I tried a cover filter about two or so months ago but for a different reason. A long story short I was using a juicer for apple juice, problem was that it was throwing a lot of blended pulp into the juice. Thought about filter paper in the form of an A4 but wasn't sure if it would be food grade. Went with the obvious coffee filter paper. Set up a bottle and a funnel and put the coffee filter in. Filled it up and it filtered for about five seconds and stopped, thought it was a bit odd but had a rough idea why. Removed the funnel and empted the paper back into the pulpy juice. Tried a second time, same thing. At this point I knew it wasn't going to work but wanted to try just one last time and ditch it if I could get it to work. Third try came and the same result. Ditched that idea really fast. My logic was that pulp like dirt would allow the water or in this case the juice to run/filter through and then into the paper because there would be micro air gaps. What I didn't account for was the fact that the pulp would clog all air space to prevent it from filtering, I didn't account for this because of the previous reasoning. Moral of the story? Coffee filter paper was pointless, I wasted more time by trying to save time. Conclusion? I learnt helpful information that can be or in this case not applied in future applications.
for small fruit pulp particulates, put a stocking or mesh bag around the auto siphon this will keep them from being sucked up.
My siphon tube has a filter chamber built into it where I place 2 filters folded I half into it and them do a forced siphon which forces the brew through the filters. I evacuate the air by pushing sterile water to fill the hose and chamber and then start the siphon process.
Never seen one like that. I would think the filtration might slow or stop siphoning though...
Would this be a good idea if you wanted to save the liquid in the dregs and make apple cider vinegar with it, or is there a better way to reclaim that last bit?
It's more pain than it's worth. Vinegar is made from the liquid anyway, not the sediment.
Curious, what about an activated carbon filter like they use in distilling?
Better to just use time and an autosiphon. Charcoal filtering will remove some flavors I'd think.
After siphoning the wine to the next bottle is it safe to drink? I’m in the middle of brewing and I don’t know what I should do. If someone could comment on this that would be very helpful. Thanks
I used a coffee filter today to get rid of extra hop crap....it's a SLOW process...but it seems to be working....
Good idia. I like it
Glad I saw this. I never tried it. Thought about it but now I know not to
I tried the same thing myself a few years ago with the same results. I just take the last inch or two of the jugs and combine them to drink for myself. Tastes about the same and it's all for me. Might try some layers of cheese cloth if I really feel like it.
Thank you! I I now have a 122 750ml BOTTLE COOLER!
I have a question what is the difference from using regular fleischmann's bread yeast vs using the fleischmann's extra rise yeast and also is there another way to filter wine better than a coffee? filter I have little cash flow right now and can't get a siphon.
I haven’t seen much difference in those yeasts tbh. Don’t use coffee filters…. A siphon is the best way. That can just be tubing if that’s all you can get.
Thank You from Phoenix Arizona ;
you can modify the funnle with a mesh insert to enlarge the surface area of filtration (the same way a buchner funnle works) and speed up the gravity filtration process. also if vacuum filtration is an option, it would eliminate the oxygen problem and also speed up filtration by a ton.
Doesn't really solve the issue. It's just so much better to let it attenuate out over time and use a siphon.
@@CitySteadingBrews I'm just saying :D may be helpful for people in a hurry for small scale batches or for brews that won't clear up nicely other ways.
Brian, thank you for all your videos. Wondered if you knew if oxidation would also be bad for a base for liqueur...? I am presently preparing a batch of sugar wine/ kilju with hopefully a relatively high abv to use for different flavours of sweet liqueur's (will later let mint, orange peel etc. Age with the base, some I will flavour with aromas, also to see what turns out best). Most I have seen recommend running kilju through a carbon filter, fx a simple Brita pitcher, to purify the taste, remove yeast/yeast nutrient leftover tastes. Planning on sifon'ing it to and from the pitcher, but guess it will oxidate some... Do you have any inputs/information/experience? 🙂 Thanks again, best regards from another Brian 🙂
Okay, after watching a lot more of your videos (thanks again for them), I hear you mention that when the ABV is over a certain level, you are not THAT concerned about oxidation (at least in relation to turning into vinegar), so thats great, as I am hoping for around 18% in this "brew" when its ready for my simple carbon filtering to remove as much aromas as possible. So I will go ahead and try this and test if it has any possitive (or negative!) effect. :-) Greetings from a Dane in Turkey :-)
Pretty sure I have a pectin haze working in my mead. Being new to all of this, I'm not sure how to deal with it. Any advice?
Time. However it won’t affect flavor anyway.
I wonder if you tie it on the end of the racking tube and pass the liquid through would that make a reasonable difference?
It would break the siphon it’s too slow.
What's a good filter to use to keep out the wort during transfer while keeping as much liquid as possible?
I use an autosiphon. Filtering will remove some flavors and it’s more trouble.
I use a permanent coffee filter. Filtered in acouple seconds. I don't need anything fancy. I drink half gallon in about 4 hrs,then it's nap time,Lol, so it don't get no time to turn to vinegar. I was just looking for some ideas. Siphon is probably best. Thanks for a great video, you got New sub.😊
Thank you for this. I had the filter idea, but imagined my way out of it pretty quickly. However, I used a brand new auto-siphon to rack the other day and the rubber must have been dry rotted because it sucked air into the siphon hose with the mead. If it goes to vinegar, I'll understand why. :)
It probably won’t cause a problem.
I have white film in my wine and this is my first time making it without much knowledge. I just saw a quick video. What do I do with the film?
Some films are harmful but others just alter the flavors. Personally, I wouldn’t trust it. It sounds like a possible infection.
Is that a Lagavulin 16 bottle.
Love your Videos. They have helped me greatly for producing my own meads. Very informative, and solid infromation. However, with all due respect, I see an issue regarding the filter and it does work, especially if you use a wider coned funnel. Here's why! I get oxygen is bad for the final finish, and that there is air already trapped in the bottle, however for a liquid to enter and occupy a closed space (bottle with funnel) then the previous air has to be released, otherwise the area is just being pressurized and no liquid can continute to enter, as a result of the debris cloging the entrance throung the filter. I notice the funnel is rested at the opening of the bottle. With the filter in the funnel, naturaly the opening would clog as it traps the undesireables. However, as liquid rises the debris settles below the surface trapped in the filter, thus trapping the liquid. So given the observance of displacement, any remaining liquid would escape through the easiest exit, rising over the debris, escaping through the pours of the filter and being released. But in this case it cant. Some how the previous air is unable to escape. Its due to the funnel blocking the neck of the bottle and causing a seal resulting in an airlock. So the filter will work, but the funnel has to be raised a little to let the trapped air out and the rest of the fluid to pour through. I hope that made sense. Again, I love your vids, and I am a subscriber. I hope you continue to make more videos and inform the populous on the joys of brewing at home!
What you said is fine but doesn’t change the fact that you are needlessly exposing your brew to oxygen and the filter won’t remove lees anyway.
Just made my first batch and am trying to learn can I pour the wine off and just throw the what I now know is Lees away and then seal bottle ?
use a siphon and you are gonna want to put your lid with the bubble air lock back on after sanitizing it. the reason for this is because its normal for mead ferment after racking, though i guess it depends
Wish I’d seen this a week ago. Made my first batch of wine. Wondered why I would symphony when I could run it thru a filter. Hopefully I didn’t ruin it. But question, if it does turn to vinegar can I use it as vinegar?
Yes, you can use the vinegar.
Hey Brian! I’m trying to source some cheap but good flip-top bottles, do you have any recommendations?
Well, depending on where you are and what you consider cheap... Aldi has them pretty often, they come with lemonade, or try our store? www.amazon.com/shop/citysteading
City Steading I just saw the emousport flip top attachments, might buy a set of those!
So a vacuum filter might be more effective? (I’m genuinely asking…I have zero experience with this)
We just let time do it's thing and siphon. There are filter systems, but they are messy, and largely unnecessary.
Have you tried allulose as a sucrose substitute? Do you know whether it ferments? If so, does it have a 1-to-1 replacement value? Supposedly only 70% as sweet. I suppose I could just try it, but I work in 1- and 3-gallon batches (and not many of them at a time), and I don't want to waste one on a potentially dumb experiment.
We have used it to backsweeten many of our brews in the past year or so. It does not ferment. It works great to sweeten things you want to carbonate or, if you don't want to pasteurize.
Thanks.@@CitySteadingBrews
Have you tried the panty hose on the end of the auto siphon. I tried it for and IPA and it seemed to have the same issue.
I try to keep pantyhose out of my brew. But... you can use cheesecloth on the end of the tube to get larger stuff out. It won't keep lees out though.
I'm guessing it's probably not worth it here but just out of curiosity would it be worth trying this just for the bit you'd normally leave with a siphon? I'm thinking theirs not as much air then as you will have almost filled the bottle anyway and your not waiting as long since its just the dregs that said it still looks like even that would take forever. and just to save a bit more of your drink it doesn't see, worth while. Anyway thanks for the vid.
Not really worth it. The lees will make it a mess.
@@CitySteadingBrews I figured their'd be a good reason ty for the answer though.
I use a coffee filter when making my cold brew coffee. I pre-wet the filter.
Makes a difference with coffee. Would it with wine?
Just asking.
Don’t use a coffee filter for wine is the gist of the video.
Im a Commercial HVAC guy . So would it be better to make a filter and pump set up for brewing . Because all the one’s i have seen . Are nothing more then a cheep or a half ass attempt to filter . But what i have planed would do it fast . And with a bum hole you can keep it air locked
I have a question for you though. I have a fruit wine that I racked using egg whites, it tastes great, very clear but it causes my face super flushed and hot when I drink it. What does that sound like to you? It only happens with that specific fruit wine.
I've yet to add egg whites to a brew, just seems like it could go badly.
I'm thinking this has a high alcohol content, that can cause what you're experiencing, or you're allergic to something in it.
It’s certainly high abv, had 2 glasses and I was about to lose my legs. Egg whites have always work well for me with the wines I make with high diacetyl because they give it a kind of lite smooth texture.
I've just made a batch of elderflower wine. I've done the primary and now I've got two full demijohns of wine. Problem is, there are tiny little
When you rack, put some cheesecloth over the tubing on the output of your siphon. IT should catch them all.
If I'm looking for a cheap way to remove sediment from cheap wine, is this a sound way of doing it?
Nope. Let it settle and rack it.
Tried this on my first rack. I will try not to in future xD...
I also use the siphon.
Brian my fermentation is almost done how do i stop n kill n clear at end of wine
You don't... you let it finish, and when it's done, rack and it will clear in time. ruclips.net/video/hsOd9rWRcSU/видео.html
is there a video on how to clear your brews
Not really, just let them sit. Time works wonders and you're aging it too. We did a video on why we don't use clarifiers though: ruclips.net/video/eSwXBpq7-ZA/видео.html
My question is how should we remove the fruits and berries when taking it from a bucket to put in the gallon bottles
I just did the same. I brewed without using a bag. They are so hard to find in the right size. Appreciate any help there. I plan to "scoop" the fruit out using a strainer and let it sit on the lees a bit longer as I'm just at the 2-week mark. Does that sound right Brian and Derica?
I dumped the brew into a stainless steel pot that had a painter’s straining bag in it. The straining bag worked really well and was cheaper. Then cleaned the fermenter and dumped the brew back in. Let it settle again, then bottled.
Thank you, what about cheese cloth and tipping the funnel so the brew runs down the side? FYI, I'm still doing 1 gallon batches.
Chesecloth is far too coarse to filter a brew.
CS Brews multiply the layers?
@@bentroelstra8288 Still not remotely fine enough for lees.
Two things
I watched your video on viking blood, and seen you mashed the cherries by hand and not by food processor. Is there a reason not to just add a cherry puree thats been blended?
Also after watching this video with your talk about oxygen turning the product into vinegar, can you show us how to make a viable cooking vinegar or something from the waste, or bottom portion of the barrel?
Any elaboration would be awesome, thanks for the great videos, just subscribed today and will try these out soon
Vinegar would be made from the mead or wine, not the lees. I don’t puree fue to the extra mess involved.
@@CitySteadingBrews thanks guys. looking forward to watching a bunch of these. About the vinegar, is that something you guys do?
I did a time or two. Wasn’t thrilled with the results.
Then how to filter that thickness in home brewing can’t i get clean wine ?
It clears on its own. You can see it in most of our videos.
But how do you filter out stuff like the mint in your kilju?
Easy, we will either pull it out with a spoon or something or just pour through a colander.
I tried a coffee filter with the cloudy, beer-like dregs that were left after racking the batch of Syr Michael of York mead I started awhile back. Forget it. Don't waste your time. The dead yeast particulates in suspension are so fine, they go right through it.
Thanks for the info. I'm trying to perfect my wine making. I want to hit my goal of 500 bottles in a year. 🍻
Curious why that is your goal?
@@CitySteadingBrews Well I'm 50 years old and I wanted a new hobby and thought about wine making for some time. I teamed up with this older retired guy. Did a fair amount of research and talk to other wine makers( mostly older folks). I want a variety of flavored wines. Plus when I pick up a hobby I get a little obsessed. So far I've made 55 bottles of choke cherry wine and 33 bottles of high bush cranberry wine. I want to make dandelion, strawberry, blueberry, raspberry and mango wine. These type of fruits a abundant in this neck of the woods except the mangoes. I guess if I was to give my wines as a gift to people and they say that it's good shit. It would give me satifaction. Me and the retired guy said we're living the dream ha ha ha . Have a good day.
Could you use dry ice to fill a container with CO2?
I don’t think I would do that. The temp would hinder fermentation
I use a variety of filter but usually only with the lees. Even then the funnel (4 pint capacity) has a pipe attached and the pipe goes in the bottle. Never had a problem :)
There's a lot of ways to make it work. Just takes forever.