Why don't they make these things with a dry contact suitable up to 240V 16A? Then it would be much more usable for do it yourself projects, now you always need to an extra relais to switch something different then the supplied voltage.... And if you need input voltage at the output you can easily place a a small bridge between common and supply voltage.... Good video!
It's all about the supply. Dry contact may be more flexible but this design is the most popular way lights are wired. They are made specifically for lights.
@@notenoughtech Would one more terminal that you could bridge to live or not depending on whether you wanted "dry" or "live" be so difficult to include as standard? I agree with @gerysteylaerts
Thanks for the video first of all, this is very helpful and informative. I am in the process of making my switches at my home smart and I will probably go with Sonoff MINIR4M. I also plan to use them with AmazonEcho. However I am not sure if I need a SONOFF bridge in between, can you please clarify ?
I have purchased a SONOFF MINIR4 to make an application, with Alexa creating a routine, to my solar energy system. The idea is that it tells me when I have power from the electric company and when I don't...the question is, can I put a 120v cable on the S2 so that it tells me when there is power and when the power went out?...thanks
And for lighting between this sonoff mini R4 matter and the Shelly Plus 1PM Mini Gen 3. Which one do you think is better? Shelly seems easier to install with Two Way Switch
can you se it up with detach relay, and how does that behave, if the Home assistant it turned off? I have a smart light bulb and i want to use the normal switch to turn off and on the bulb. But I also wan't it to be used if the home assistant is rebooting/turned off (like an old fashioned switch)
Hi, Thank you for your video. Do you know if this device can be used in a dumb towel warmer to make it smart and control it temperature with the ns panel pro with the function as thermostat?
@@notenoughtech The MiniR4M says that can handle up to 2400W, the towel warmer is 800W so It should be alright. The problem is if it can be set as thermostat this MiniR4M or it is only configurable for lights or sockets.
Don't forget about Tasmota. The ESP32 devices running Tasmota also support Matter and the ESP8266 devices running Tasmota can use Matter through one of the ESP32 devices
@@notenoughtech I completely agree, but it's a useful option for older hardware that's got an esp32 and doesn't currently support matter. And you can do a lot of other things with tasmota as well of course
To be fair, as Matter uses local mode, reliability of both depends on the radio being available. There is no real advantage from that standpoint. If your Thread hub goes down, things won't work, if your ISP fails but WiFi router works, you will still have the control
@@notenoughtech The difference is, that Thread builds a mesh network that becomes stronger (multiple paths and longer range) the more routers exist. Each mains powered Thread device is supposed to also act as a router. The Thread network also would change much less frequently than the WiFi network which would also contribute to better stability. That it uses less power is another benefit.
@GunterZochbauer WiFi can be meshed too. I have one at home. Realistically speaking a single 2.4GHz router covers most of the household with a single unit when it comes to range and bandwidth isn't an issue. The only advantage of thread is the low power operations that enable battery powered sensors. I'm not sure what you mean by WiFi change however. I didn't get that point. I'm sorry.
@@notenoughtech I have 3 APs (Unify 6 Pro, Unify 6 Mesh and a TP-Link and there are still areas in the house where Shelly's often don't get a connection. A WiFi mesh AP needs to be installed in addition to the smart home devices and they themselves need quite some power and are expensive. WiFi is just a poor choice for home automation except perhaps in a small flat where you don't expect to live for a longer time.
It's down to the circumstances. I get wifi at the carpark which is 30m away from the building. WiFi isn't inherently bad for automation. It's needed for cameras voice processing and often for interactive dashboards. Generalising that it's not suited for automation goes pretty much against what the world decided... and doesn't hold much water.
I now got a couple of MiniR4M and also connected in Amazon Alexa. I can see and toggle the relay but how can I monitor and interact with the switch input from the MiniR4M? My idea was to toggle different lights for different times via routines. Or is there any other good MatterBroker/Bridge?
It would be less than that. I can only measure an estimate of what my rated bulb is drawing vs what my meter was showing and I think that was like 0.6W - which isn't a massive factor considering that you are likely to have a 10W bulb installed (if not more)
Since Matter is protocol, not hardware, and the old mini4 already has an esp 32... Isnt the new one just the old one with a slightly different micro and a different software? Couldn't the old one get a software update to get Matter?
It's a little more complicated as the IC has to meet requirements to be matter compatible. Not all WiFi enabled chips are able to do this so this would be very device specific at this point
I have one of these Mini R4 och det extra. I am wondering if I can use it too open and close my garage door opener which has the possiblity to connect a push button. How do I get R4 to be a dry contact push button?
Ah pity. I was hoping you had the solution. Thing is, I have 42 hue lights and 1 led strip that had to be connected via Sonoff. Have it at least all now in my google home, but would be so nice if it just listens to my hue remotes as well 😂
@@notenoughtech Agreed, the zbmini extreme is a good size for UK switches but a with neutral version which acts as a router (as many zigbee smart switches do) would be most welcomed
I’m new to this world, i dont understand clearly how this work, do i have to buy home assistance device and connect this sonoff to it ? Or i can connect this sonoff directly to my mobile app ?
All you need is a Matter compatible ecosystem (you won't need a hub as this is a WiFi device). You can add it directly to Google Home, Alexa or other Matter compatible devices
I just dont understand what's new with Matter? We were able to add wifi devices to Alexa, Google Home, SmartThings and the manufacturer App anyways. How is it even different? Just that, instead of using the skills or integrations, we are using code to pair with other systems? I don't get the logic. Can someone explain if there is something major helpful thing i am not understanding?
It's a problem with Matter at the moment where the protocol is not robust enough and manufacturers can offer extra features at the expense of using proprietary ecosystems
0,2 W consumption in idle mode is the lowest I have ever seen considering that it is a wlan connected device. By rule of thumb 0,2 W x 9 = 1,8 kWh / year But what about the range of the WLAN cause low energy consumption is 1 point, but no WLAN range or connection is more important ?
I mean: 1. If I turn off the light using the wall switch, can I then turn it on using the mobile app? 2. If I turn off the light using the mobile app, can I then turn it on using the wall switch?
is there a method pairing the mini 4rm without pushing the pairing button? its annoying when its already installed behind the switch. i have a raspberry pi4b with a sonoff dongle E and a multiprotocoll for matter and zigbee flashed on it but i cant connect the sonoff mini4rm. i used my pixel 7 phone and the mini4rm is found but when i want to connect it doesnt work. i can't connect via ZHA and google home.
@@notenoughtech It wasn't paired before. The instructions says that after it gets power the Pairing mode is active (is it the same when I push the button on the device?).
Bluetooth and Thread. Plus not all hardware will can support Matter over WiFi. Less of a case with something like a raspberry but I wouldn't be surprised to see all in a stick
When is Sonoff going to release a small relay with two outputs? Matter doesn't really matter at the moment. no one cares. anybody who is buying devices that support matter is because of "the future" and not a single person that uses home assistant cares. the only solution for someone who wants a dual smart relay at the moment is Shelly.
The "no one cares" isn't really a reason. No one would care as long as the choice of matter devices is uninteresting. It's down to manufacturers to entice the consumers and make them care. This is the only way it's gonna work. Until the market is filled with matter enabled devices that consumers want to have... The burden is on manufacturing. If you already know about Shelly relays why not get it?
It's smart home. Sharing anything outside your local network IS a security concern. The question is only what are the benefits Vs trade offs. Integration with Alexa is a concern, voice processing in the cloud is a concern... List goes on and on. I'm yet to read a decent article about someone being seriously hacked thanks to backdoors in smart devices. (Other than malicious control take over of lights..) it's great to be security conscious but scaremongering isn't helpful
I have bought a SONOFF MINIR4 so I can get an application, with Alexa creating a routine, for my solar energy system. The idea is that it tells me when I have power from the electric company and when I don't...the question is, can I put a 120v cable on the S2 so that it tells me when there is power and when the power went out?...thanks
Hey man! Aweome video! Love your content! Off topic but what bit driver and bits are tou using, it looks awesome!
Thanks. Look at jimihome tools on AliExpress
Why don't they make these things with a dry contact suitable up to 240V 16A? Then it would be much more usable for do it yourself projects, now you always need to an extra relais to switch something different then the supplied voltage.... And if you need input voltage at the output you can easily place a a small bridge between common and supply voltage.... Good video!
It's all about the supply. Dry contact may be more flexible but this design is the most popular way lights are wired. They are made specifically for lights.
@@notenoughtech Would one more terminal that you could bridge to live or not depending on whether you wanted "dry" or "live" be so difficult to include as standard? I agree with @gerysteylaerts
For me the main reason to go Matter is native integration with Apple Home (without a need for any kind of bridge). Will that work?
Yes
Thanks for the video first of all, this is very helpful and informative. I am in the process of making my switches at my home smart and I will probably go with Sonoff MINIR4M. I also plan to use them with AmazonEcho. However I am not sure if I need a SONOFF bridge in between, can you please clarify ?
I believe you need a hub that supports matter, not necessary a sonoff one, but I may be wrong.
I have the wifi mini r4, they work perfect with no hub
You will need a Matter hub (some alexa have it) then you won't need a sonoff hub.
I have purchased a SONOFF MINIR4 to make an application, with Alexa creating a routine, to my solar energy system. The idea is that it tells me when I have power from the electric company and when I don't...the question is, can I put a 120v cable on the S2 so that it tells me when there is power and when the power went out?...thanks
Very informative upload mate, thanks 👍
Glad it was helpful!
Could it be used as WiFi only - like the Mini 4R. (Future proofing the use of Matter for the future)?
And for lighting between this sonoff mini R4 matter and the Shelly Plus 1PM Mini Gen 3. Which one do you think is better? Shelly seems easier to install with Two Way Switch
PM has the monitor which I like! :) Can't go wrong with either if I'm honest
I think most switch sockets in Europe don't have neutral wire so there is no way to connect
There Is a version without neutral
can you se it up with detach relay, and how does that behave, if the Home assistant it turned off? I have a smart light bulb and i want to use the normal switch to turn off and on the bulb. But I also wan't it to be used if the home assistant is rebooting/turned off (like an old fashioned switch)
Hi,
Thank you for your video. Do you know if this device can be used in a dumb towel warmer to make it smart and control it temperature with the ns panel pro with the function as thermostat?
Id check the power rating as it may not be able to handle the current directly
@@notenoughtech The MiniR4M says that can handle up to 2400W, the towel warmer is 800W so It should be alright. The problem is if it can be set as thermostat this MiniR4M or it is only configurable for lights or sockets.
Don't forget about Tasmota. The ESP32 devices running Tasmota also support Matter and the ESP8266 devices running Tasmota can use Matter through one of the ESP32 devices
Flashing tasmota just to use matter makes very little sense if the device already works with matter
@@notenoughtech I completely agree, but it's a useful option for older hardware that's got an esp32 and doesn't currently support matter. And you can do a lot of other things with tasmota as well of course
But then you have just normal R4 that could be used with tasmota.
Only you cannot flash Tasmota to the MINIR4M
@@blakadders and will this be possible soon or are there technical issues blocking this? 🙂
I hope Thread versions become available. I don't want essential stuff to depend on WiFi.
To be fair, as Matter uses local mode, reliability of both depends on the radio being available. There is no real advantage from that standpoint. If your Thread hub goes down, things won't work, if your ISP fails but WiFi router works, you will still have the control
@@notenoughtech The difference is, that Thread builds a mesh network that becomes stronger (multiple paths and longer range) the more routers exist. Each mains powered Thread device is supposed to also act as a router.
The Thread network also would change much less frequently than the WiFi network which would also contribute to better stability.
That it uses less power is another benefit.
@GunterZochbauer WiFi can be meshed too. I have one at home. Realistically speaking a single 2.4GHz router covers most of the household with a single unit when it comes to range and bandwidth isn't an issue.
The only advantage of thread is the low power operations that enable battery powered sensors.
I'm not sure what you mean by WiFi change however. I didn't get that point. I'm sorry.
@@notenoughtech I have 3 APs (Unify 6 Pro, Unify 6 Mesh and a TP-Link and there are still areas in the house where Shelly's often don't get a connection.
A WiFi mesh AP needs to be installed in addition to the smart home devices and they themselves need quite some power and are expensive.
WiFi is just a poor choice for home automation except perhaps in a small flat where you don't expect to live for a longer time.
It's down to the circumstances. I get wifi at the carpark which is 30m away from the building. WiFi isn't inherently bad for automation. It's needed for cameras voice processing and often for interactive dashboards. Generalising that it's not suited for automation goes pretty much against what the world decided... and doesn't hold much water.
Can this be used on a garage door opener?
I now got a couple of MiniR4M and also connected in Amazon Alexa.
I can see and toggle the relay but how can I monitor and interact with the switch input from the MiniR4M?
My idea was to toggle different lights for different times via routines.
Or is there any other good MatterBroker/Bridge?
I don't think there is a way to detach it currently via Matter. You can do this with ewelink app and skill integration
I guess the 0.2w consumption will be about 2w with the relay energised, older ones were more but i dont think that tiny relay will be drawing 5-6w !
It would be less than that. I can only measure an estimate of what my rated bulb is drawing vs what my meter was showing and I think that was like 0.6W - which isn't a massive factor considering that you are likely to have a 10W bulb installed (if not more)
Since Matter is protocol, not hardware, and the old mini4 already has an esp 32... Isnt the new one just the old one with a slightly different micro and a different software?
Couldn't the old one get a software update to get Matter?
It's a little more complicated as the IC has to meet requirements to be matter compatible. Not all WiFi enabled chips are able to do this so this would be very device specific at this point
I have one of these Mini R4 och det extra. I am wondering if I can use it too open and close my garage door opener which has the possiblity to connect a push button. How do I get R4 to be a dry contact push button?
They are not dry contacts, check Shelly 1 Plus
Hi! Maybe I missed it, but do you also know how to connect it to the hue app?
I haven't tried but if you want to mix and match brands best go with a custom coordinator
Ah pity. I was hoping you had the solution. Thing is, I have 42 hue lights and 1 led strip that had to be connected via Sonoff. Have it at least all now in my google home, but would be so nice if it just listens to my hue remotes as well 😂
Since it still has detached relay, is there like button triggers you can use with alexa or others?
When clicked it would tell Alexa etc that it turned the light on without turning it on. You could like that event in routine I believe.
Do you know if there are there any plans to release a ZB mini extreme with neutral which acts as a zigbee router?
Power delivery might be an issue in no neutral configuration when in standby
@@notenoughtech Agreed, the zbmini extreme is a good size for UK switches but a with neutral version which acts as a router (as many zigbee smart switches do) would be most welcomed
@@notenoughtech that's why we ask for a very with neutral :)
Nice update. Did you try to integrate with Home Assistant?
I don't use home assistant. Nodered is my go to
I’m new to this world, i dont understand clearly how this work, do i have to buy home assistance device and connect this sonoff to it ? Or i can connect this sonoff directly to my mobile app ?
All you need is a Matter compatible ecosystem (you won't need a hub as this is a WiFi device). You can add it directly to Google Home, Alexa or other Matter compatible devices
@@notenoughtechthanks alot for your responding, can this control more than 1 gang switch ?
You can link 2 inputs but control only a single channel. So one light or one group of lights
@@notenoughtech so this will not work with me if i have external switch with more than one gang , thanks alot
I just dont understand what's new with Matter?
We were able to add wifi devices to Alexa, Google Home, SmartThings and the manufacturer App anyways. How is it even different?
Just that, instead of using the skills or integrations, we are using code to pair with other systems? I don't get the logic.
Can someone explain if there is something major helpful thing i am not understanding?
It's a problem with Matter at the moment where the protocol is not robust enough and manufacturers can offer extra features at the expense of using proprietary ecosystems
0,2 W consumption in idle mode is the lowest I have ever seen considering that it is a wlan connected device. By rule of thumb 0,2 W x 9 = 1,8 kWh / year
But what about the range of the WLAN cause low energy consumption is 1 point, but no WLAN range or connection is more important ?
For WiFi device.. ZigBee stuff usually reports even lower figures
Any plans to flash it with tas?
Not at the moment considering the matter support.
does it work with blinds? and if so, how to connect it?
It's a single channel relay, you need a dual channel to do it
Is it possible to turn on light from app if I turned off light by wall switch before?
yes, as switch no longer powers off the line, only sends trigger to the sonoff
I mean:
1. If I turn off the light using the wall switch, can I then turn it on using the mobile app?
2. If I turn off the light using the mobile app, can I then turn it on using the wall switch?
That correct
is there a method pairing the mini 4rm without pushing the pairing button? its annoying when its already installed behind the switch. i have a raspberry pi4b with a sonoff dongle E and a multiprotocoll for matter and zigbee flashed on it but i cant connect the sonoff mini4rm. i used my pixel 7 phone and the mini4rm is found but when i want to connect it doesnt work. i can't connect via ZHA and google home.
You can pair it again if you disconnect it from the ecosystem via software. Otherwise you need to press the button to pair it.
@@notenoughtech It wasn't paired before. The instructions says that after it gets power the Pairing mode is active (is it the same when I push the button on the device?).
It should be true only for limited time when device isn't paired to anything and powered up
Thanks Mat.
You're welcome!
Hi does this support smate 2 switch ?
I've juste tested and it does NOT
So no noise from the relay?
You can hear the relay its not SSR
Matter doesn't need a donble to work with Home Assistant, only Thread does.
Bluetooth and Thread. Plus not all hardware will can support Matter over WiFi. Less of a case with something like a raspberry but I wouldn't be surprised to see all in a stick
SONOFF MINIR4M is Support SONOFF SwitchMan R5 Scene Controller
You can use them together via ewelink or skills
Matter offers so much in the future but so far it is so restrictive with options compared with using the native apps
It may suffer the same way the ZigBee did
Is this 2 gang?
It's a single channel relay with 2 inputs
When is Sonoff going to release a small relay with two outputs?
Matter doesn't really matter at the moment. no one cares. anybody who is buying devices that support matter is because of "the future" and not a single person that uses home assistant cares.
the only solution for someone who wants a dual smart relay at the moment is Shelly.
The "no one cares" isn't really a reason. No one would care as long as the choice of matter devices is uninteresting. It's down to manufacturers to entice the consumers and make them care. This is the only way it's gonna work. Until the market is filled with matter enabled devices that consumers want to have... The burden is on manufacturing. If you already know about Shelly relays why not get it?
I use Home Assistant and I care about Matter
Unfortunately, it doesn't work with everything, and in my opinion, it introduces a lot of complexity and security concerns.
What security concerns have got your attention?
I love people who make accusations without substantiating them. Either come back and reply or erase your comment.
@@notenoughtech sharing extensive hue access to 3rd party is a security concern
@@superleggenda there you go
It's smart home. Sharing anything outside your local network IS a security concern. The question is only what are the benefits Vs trade offs.
Integration with Alexa is a concern, voice processing in the cloud is a concern... List goes on and on. I'm yet to read a decent article about someone being seriously hacked thanks to backdoors in smart devices. (Other than malicious control take over of lights..) it's great to be security conscious but scaremongering isn't helpful
Morning mate, how you doing?
All good thanks. Hope you are well as well on the other side of the planet
I have bought a SONOFF MINIR4 so I can get an application, with Alexa creating a routine, for my solar energy system. The idea is that it tells me when I have power from the electric company and when I don't...the question is, can I put a 120v cable on the S2 so that it tells me when there is power and when the power went out?...thanks