Albini's viewpoint is that an artist who needs a producer to drive the sound of their record, isn't an artist at all because they have no vision, Albini can surely contribute but he expects an self-respecting artist to know what their album should sound like and it shouldn't be up to Albini to make that determination since he's not a member of their band. When a producer imposes their own "style" on an Album it detaches that album from what the band would produce live by themselves, it becomes an unauthentic portrayal of that band, that's his idea. Albini has no issues with doing double takes it's more that it seems Steely Dan didn't know what they wanted until they heard it and made people do things over and over and over wasting everyone's time in pursuit of something they liked, there's a lack of vision and professionalism that's apparent in that approach. Then again that's how Stanley Kubrick made movies and it clearly worked out for him and for Steely Dan, but i can understand where Albini's criticism comes from, just differering viewpoints
Steve Albini was insufferable. Many of the greatest albums of all time had creative input from a producer. I personally am not a fan of Albini's dry production. While he's trying to get the sound of the band live, that's impossible first of all. In the process you get neither the sound of the band live, nor the best that they can sound in the studio. You get a relatively dry and lifeless recording.
I like Albini's producer work. Shit I even like Big Black's records. But I fucking LOVE Steely Dan. In a competition between some nebulous idea of "punk cred" or "ethos" and "good music," "fine musicianship," I'll take the latter every damn time. I grew up with "punk rock" fans and the majority of them were middle class kids obsessed with image and aesthetic, not music as a path or craft. Its funny cuz the rest of my larger friend group that came from either lower working class or straight up broken homes, we loved the anti-punk stuff like King Crimson, Yes, and Steely Dan, especially George (if you're out there brother, the only other kid that knew every song by heart, you were cool af). Punk rock is fine, i especially love the Clash and Black Flag, but the broader punk movement always struck me as largely uncool specifically because of that obsession with image and cred. Clash and Black Flag were into their music, they gave a fuck, maybe not as much as Walter and Donald but there was still this striving to serve a sound or a song. There is nothing cooler than striving to serve the song, to serve the feeling a particular point in a composition should engender in the listener. That's peak cool imo and i live by that.
Punk has more longevity when it comes to lyrical content that will stick with people over the years. Most Steely Dan fans can hardly decipher what the songs are about. I haven't even watched the video yet, ha ha but I love Steely Dan in so many ways and can appreciate their lyrical collages but the punk drive to hammer meaningful messages from atypical sources have its own strength. Now I'll watch the video.
I'll take musicianship but I've never been a fan of Steely Dan. I'd rather listen to Big Black than Steely Dan. Having said that, I'm not a fan of Albini's production style. While he's trying to get the sound of the band live, that's impossible first of all. In the process he gets neither the sound of the band live, nor the best that they can sound in the studio. You get a relatively dry and lifeless recording most of the time.
“I never really listen to the Pistols’ music anymore. I’m fucking tired of it, to be honest with you. I’d rather listen to Steely Dan.” ~ Steve Jones, former Sex Pistols guitarist, in an interview with The Telegraph, May 27, 2022
I don't care how many musicians it took or how long it took to get the end product. ...I get eargasms lol on 99% of their cd's.The best studio band I have ever heard...period!
He not only never called himself a producer, he actively insisted that he wasn't a producer, and actively repeated that he was a 'recording engineer'. So at 6:50 you seem to have missed an extremely important aspect of him and to be talking tangentially about him and his approach. And I'd suggest the quotes about SD at the beginning are kind of removed from the context he meant them in, i.e. how their approach didn't fit his own aesthetic taste for a sound with life, or his idea of doing things that would be satisfying for him or most musicians he worked with. You talk a lot about what he said people 'should' or 'shouldn't' do, but as far as I could tell he talked about it as his own approach and aesthetic response, not as any kind of dictate. And also he actively said that if artists wanted to create purely artificial sounds in the studio then that was their choice and he would facilitate whatever they wanted. The issue was allowing their own aesthetic, seeing as they were the paying customer, to be left to them and not manipulated by him unnecessarily or unsolicited, as he admits he did to an extent with that Pixies record, one of his earlier jobs. The only time I recall him using the word 'unethical' as concerns doing his type of work was in regard to dipping into the band's income with a percentage instead of a fee for his time as a recording engineer, and he only called it that because he knew, as he explained, that it would be taken from the band, not from the label's or anyone else's profits. He was 'pro artist' and for their own free creativity through and through. And he had his own tastes, and didn't deny anyone their own. There are plenty of interviews with him to get a better insight. If people want to be seriously 'produced' they were free to do that, but it wasn't what he did or what he enjoyed and he didn't feel it was for him to impose anything onto a record that the artist didn't want. They came to him asking to be recorded, not to have their sound processed into something it wasn't really.
Steely Dan isn't above criticism. If Albini doesn't like them, he's in good company. Those who do like them are also in good company. The greater point is, people shouldn't be constrained in their commentary. When we force people to hold some standard of "niceness" in order to not offend anyone, we don't get real opinions. And why should the surviving member of Steely Dan care? His legacy is secure.
Does Albini like ANY jazz or Rock-Jazz fusion? As for SD's working process, they are the Stanley Kubrick of pop-jazz music. It's the end that justifies the means.
Yes and no, not a fan of jazz but in reality he recorded some avant guard Jazz band like Zu. Albini is an incredible person, despite his strong opinion on Steely Dan. Also he call himself as an engineer and not producer. He also have recorded many many many great and very different and unique records. The music he has done is very unique so the argument that punk want some sort of uniqueness is not true IMHO
Steely Dan is one of the greatest groups of all time!! Apparently Steve Albini doesn't understand what a real producer does... what about George Martin? As great as the Beatles were, George Martin contributed enough to be considered the fifth Beatle. Certain producers have their own "sound" which is why artists want to work with them. A producer is the musical equivalent to a Movie Director... so the actors should tell Steven Spielberg how to make a movie? If Steve Albini wants to take his philosophy to it's logical conclusion than it means he's irrelevant. Numerous people can push buttons and follow orders so why work with him? He adds nothing to the project!!! 🎸
Steve Albini was an Engineer dumbass so apparently you don’t even know the difference between an Engineer and Producer…. You do realize it was Geoff Emerick “creating the sound” of the beatles and that George Martin never even touched the board? But of course George gets all the credit because he could write music and wrote out the beatles string arrangements. Still George Martin never mixed a song or touched the board he definitely helped by telling Geoff what he liked and didn’t like but that’s about as far deep into shaping sound that George went.
That's exactly right. He stays the F out of the band's way and lets them be a band and sound they way THEY want to sound, not the way some corporate boardroom wants them to sound.
I think Steve is an engineer and he records the artists music. Hes not a 'producer', he doesn't tell them what to do or even give his opinion. He lets the artist's decisions speak for themselves.
By his own admission he’s just an engineer! I don’t know why people find it so hard to stick with that title. Like fine, call him a producer if you dislike him and want to diss him, but you will see literal fanboys call him a producer over and over.
At 3:30, you say the ‘bring in a group of musicians, then fire them’. [paraphrasing] This is likely wrong. In many cases, they would hire multiple sections, and give them a shot at the groove and feel. If a certain line-up ‘failed’ at a certain groove, they’d often be back for a different tune, and the results would be kept. It’s not that they fired people. It’s that they hired multiple lineups.
You are correct. I said that because of some of the stories I read where their way of handling musicians wasn't always polite to say the least. But I'm pretty sure many could say the same about me.
You’re the best 😊 and totally right about talking in a healthy way about what really matters. This kind of my team vs your team stuff puts folks in a box when what we need is liberation. Glad to see you back with a new video. Been awhile.
Thanks! I got a a project that turned out to be more involved than I thought it would be. It's had me out of town as well. But I'm getting back to the original plan.
Steely Dan brings me such great memories, especially when our small town was finally able to pick up FM radio signals in the 70s. I didn't have albums at the time but wow to hear songs on AM radio and get blown away by these great songs on FM radio, that's when I started playing guitar.
Don't all so called "punks" hate anybody with musical chops. Punk rock proved that anyone with very little musical talent could be in bands also, and this overated hack proves it. Frank Zappa was right.
Are you really, REALLY, sure that you know what you're Talking about? Husker Du, Wire, Black Flag, Sonic Youth, Fugazi, NoMeansNo, late 80s Pixies (Just to name a few) are talentless punk bands? Are you really sure?
There are exceptions of course, I like some of those bands you mentioned. I think Zappa meant some of the original punk bands, who hated anyone with musical chops.@@Brokenface
Yup, and I'm glad for the fact that there is music like that in the world. If "having musical chops" means every band sounding like Zappa or Steely Dan, I'd put a f-ing bullet in my brain.
Albini is nihilistic. Someone who sees the darkness in everything would chafe at popular music that's polished with the most meticulous precision. He favors abrasiveness.There's a Big Black EP cover that's so horrific, it shows his sensibilities. That being said, he's talented and a great producer.
The effort and approach Fagan and Walter put into those albums (technologically and sonically) was undeniably ahead of the time and we are absolutely the beneficiaries of their work. No questions about that!
That you are the man to facilitate the dreams of the musician. I am all in. Bless you for coming forward and orating truths. That you are still swinging the bat for an industry which has morphed into what it is today. Maybe there is hope. Note: Queen 2, Boston. Know you like these too.Ziggy
I was at a music story buying a bunch of gear for my future Ex inn the 80's. I just wanted to buy something for myself and I saw that pink paisley beauty across the store and told him to put it on the bill without trying it out. $250. It's a made in Japan version of a more expensive line but it sounds pretty good.
Funny how nobody ever brings up Steely Dan's lyrics as their strength. Whereas punk is generally equally about the message. It's kinda apples and oranges.i wouldn't want to live in a world without Steely Dan creativity or without the punk message.
look, I have always maintained that people that don't like Steely Dan don't really like music, but taking a critique seriously about this (non) issue from someone who is under the impression that Albini produced Slanted & Enchanted and Let It Be is just too much to ask....
I think Albini is really passionate about his way of producing and Steely Dan represents pretty much the opposite of that. And honestly, as someone who also gets annoyed with the "genious perfectionist" archetype, I totally get it. Now, why did he feel he needed to share his opinion? That I don't know hahaha. I think that's just Albini being Albini. That being said. I really think this is a nothing burger
I don't completely agree with what he said but I love it as banter and that he had the balls to say it. 😁 SD has become so idolized in music fandom recently.
He wrote crappy music in his band, and I don't think his records sound that great to be honest - I find him to be terribly overrated, for him to call out Steely Dan is just hilarious. The musicanship of Steely Dan; from Steve Gadd and Wayne Shorter's performances on Aja to many of Larry Carlton's legendary guitar solos...let alone the harmonic/melodic complexity Steely Dan incorporated, and I'll say even tricked the American public to thinking was rock and roll was high genius. Or the lyrical content of Steely Dan carrying on the Beats through the lens of the jaded growing up in 70's America..or Steely Dan and their engineers using a sampled drum machine in 1978 on Gaucho..or their groundbreaking use of DAT recording...it goes on and on and on...versus a guy from Big Black who recorded Nirvana once and a bunch of other mediocre bands. Not liking Steely Dan's music is one thing, calling them out on social media just to show you have punk cred just makes him look like a total fool.
Criticizing an artist’s methods and works makes no sense. Every artist must follow their own vision. There is no right or wrong. Real artists must not care what other people think.
@Freaking Out With Billy Hume - True. Who gets to determine standards for arts? I had a student once who claimed that a famous singer was great based on the fact that she was popular. Sheesh.
Talk about missing the point. He's exhibiting his punk rock sense of humor. It was fucking hilarious, And he even takes some jabs at himself. It's time for some situational awareness, folks.
Steve Albini had nothing to do with the Replacements' "Let It Be" album, aside from writing a scathing review of the album as a betrayal of the Replacements' previous albums and punk style.
I think Albini’s criticism comes from a place of professionalism, ironically enough for the reputation of punks. It’s fine if an artist wants to perfect a guitar solo but it’s unarguable that renting a studio for weeks to perfect one guitar solo is an outrageous waste of time and money. A rehearsal space is cheap, a recording studio staffed with skilled engineers and technicians is many times more expensive. I will say that I also agree with Albini’s objections to the devaluation of the blues. Over decades our culture has taken the blues from Robert Johnson’s, Junior Kimbrough’s, etc. soulful art to now when most people think of “the blues” they think about a dentist with a $5K Gibson doing a corny imitation of SRV licks.
Steely Dan was more punk rock than anything Steve Albini ever produced. They are the ultimate nonconformists. They made songs that sound like no one else's. In fact, while punk bands tend to all share a similar approach and sonic imprint, simple, fast, straight ahead with a dose of nihilism, Steely Dan is that rare musical accomplishment that no one can imitate. I love me some punk rock, but it's like comparing Beethoven to Britney Spears. RIP dead man.
Ok, so, I stopped the video at 53 seconds to ask: Who gives a fuck about what Steve Albini thinks? I mean, I think his way of going at record making is fine, if you’re into that sort of thing. I guess. The interesting thing about this to me, is that people like SD, Toto, etc… have no problem letting Steve make his adorable little barely listenable barely in tune rock albums in peace, without pointing out that many of us completely surpassed the musical vocabulary contained in them by 9th grade. It seems to be HIM who’s always telling the world that HE is ‘cooler’, and ‘indier than thou’. It’s ridiculous. Truly.
Ha ha! Well, seems like a lot of people do care. I usually don't but I was probably having a bad day. I've never understood the whole Steely Dan debate, but I figured I'd step in for a minute.
I fuckin love Steely Dan and yet mourn over Albini’s sudden passing away because the music engineered by him is generally good and enjoyable and because he is sincere to the bands and their music in respectable manner. As Donald Fagen is precious to me, so is Steve Albini, including his versatility including cooking and poker, let alone his fierce performance as vocalist/guitarist. And I do not fuckin understand what is wrong with that. The fact that Albini disliked or dismissed Steely Dan does not make me dislike nor dismiss Steely Dan. I am not him.
Either an overreaction on Albini's part or maybe a form of self-promotion designed to get attention. I mean Phil Spector was a total studio geek too requiring multiple takes. Roy Thomas Baker too. All that said, there was a degree of excess peculiar to the 70s and The Dan was known for taking their time and sometimes swapping out entire bands for a tune, or bringing in specialists, just to see what might happen. It was an experiment and I get that... While I like SD (and came of age in the 70s) I think channels like Beato's have led to his followers (which are legion) recently re-deifying SD in a way that excludes the possibility that things like punk music, or anything that doesn't use slash chords or veteran session pros ,is valid. It's also cool to be a chord snob now - "hey that min7b5 (a pedestrian chord) really tightened up the last bar of the verse" and rave over obscure productions details as if a barely audible glockenspiel during a chorus is responsible for s song being a hit. It get's tedious when people live in the minutae. As a recovering chord snob / production geek myself I've still always manage to recognize music has energy and sometimes it's best to get it fresh off the wire than hyper-processed or played over by "the pros" until it's right. But I'm also pretty sure that Steely Dan knows what they were/are doing - and at the time it was just part of a process. Albini is a geek too, even if he won't admit that and it's likely his process looks as peculiar to some as does SD's to him.
I too think that Albini sometimes says these things for promotion. Afterall, he's known more so than most of the bands he;s recorded. I worked with Beato off and on for a few years (and started making videos at his urging). Back when we worked together he never really talked about SD or anything like that and was about raw and aggressive rock, which is most of what we were recording. I knew he had a jazz background but never realized how deep it was till he blew up on RUclips. So in a weird way I've learned about both capturing emotion and spontaneity from a band as well as more sophisticated music theory and such from him. There is a place for both within the same song.
@@FreakingOutWithBillyHume Thanks for your channel. I see you did the Bonecrusher stuff. Cool.. So I "did time" in lots of wedding and corporate event bands so acquired lots of practical harmonic knowledge on the "front lines". So when I later studied music it really helped. Once you start using 4 notes per chord there is higher level of responsibility to insure voice leading and resolution. On the other hand, it's not necessarily "jazz" but it can certainly head that way. I think in the 70s and 80s you learned your trade as musician by playing out a lot. I know I did (not that I'm any better than the next guy) but you acquire a very good ear for what works harmonically.For example, I don't think in terms of slash chords - I just think of the tonality and revoice accordingly. As a fledgling producer, I would just bug the hell out of guys I liked to observe and help out. ( I soon learned my talents are more in the music area ha ha). I generally like Rick's channel but a fair amount of the theory stuff he discusses is readily available in music courses and/or lots of playing experience. Nonetheless, I still learn from everyone though and always like to hear different perspectives. Albini is a bit nutty but hey look at Phil Spector (not that they are necessarily comparable). Perfectionists are usually quite opinionated.
I'm a perfectionist and am quite opinionated. However I recognized that it's just MY opinion. I'll state it but it's up to the people I work with to except or reject it.
All of the lead guitar players on Peg were payed well for their time just like Jay. Steely took care of all session players. They just used their favorite takes.
Also Steve has never refered to himself as a producer and has actually refered to himself as an engineer since the behinning of his production career!!!
You know what matters? Long standing appreciation. And people that love complex music, upper extended chords, and multi instrumentation will be loving and sharing Steely Dan for years and years after everyone forgot who Steve Albini was. F him.
hahaha, from the looks of it this is just albini being inflammatory like he normally is. i think in the modern day you would call this behavior "trolling". he certainly has a history of being facetious in this way to rile people up, i think he just enjoys toying with people like this, and i bet he would get a pretty good chuckle out of this video. saying this as a huge albini fan and big steely dan fan too
I really respected Steve Albini (RIP) but I agree with your comments about diversity in the producer's role depending on the circumstances. Albini made it affordable for many bands to make recordings. I know Steely Dan (and I like their earlier albums up to but not including Aja) and have no issues with their demanding production style and schedule. They can do whatever they want because it is their own artistic statement and they had the power to do this because of their early success. They could do this especially since they started in a time period where they could get radio play. I'm not sure if they started in the last 20 years they would have made it as big as they are.
Crazy to think now how Steely Dan was on popular radio back then. And yes, if they came out today they wouldn't be mainstream but probably could get a cult following.
Steve Albini world of things are great tools moving forward. I do like this rant on how we move forward. I personally think while being in this industry in my 20's was a very real thing. My band and mates definitely had this thing going on about the music industry where stories were being talked about. Now that I have lived through these experiences and lived some time can I grasp what I think happened over the generations. It seems to be the folks at the top of major Corporations force feeding down the chain of command what the top mega bankers want or wanted. It is not the great engineers and producers that are the problem. Heck, being in a major studio recording a record for the first time was an amazing experience personally. We had incredible say in what our music on the album would sound like in the end. We recorded our first big demo professionally in a major studio without a major label breathing down our necks. Our next step was to ship our resume to the major labels hoping that a career would secure our future. We departed all of that for many reasons. We always talked about being in a successful band selling out clubs 500/800 people. Selling merchandise, etc. That was the way to go. Living under an "Oligopoly" type of rigged system is a dead end unless submission. Common sense kicked in to becoming a slave forever. We are obviously now living under the reverse engineering of this rigged system even if things in the real world look bad. This is why things are so bad. Babylon has fallen.
Wait, Albini was working on Slanted and Enchanted?? I see no record of it but like you said, he doesn't always put his name to the thing. But I get 0 results on that one. Pavement did work with Drag City before Matador which Albini def has ties to (Palace, Joanna, BPB etc ) but I don't see anything about Slanted. Slint on the other hand, I know he did Tweez.
steve is happy to spend as much time as you’d like refining the details of your sound or any other aspect of your recording. think there’s a big misconception here about how he actually works with bands and artists. plenty of videos on youtube showing sessions with him at electrical do indeed show that he has multiple ways of approaching things depending on who he’s working with and what they want and ask for. his comments about steely dan really shouldn’t be conflated and construed as some sort of metaphor to cast light on what some might ignorantly believe to be the way he works as an engineer.
Albini would be hard pressed to care what anyone else thinks and I'll venture SD's position in western popular music is secure and can handle a few slings and arrows. His opinions, like his music, have a limited audience and from what I know of him he's fine with that. He made valid points about SD. Some people like their music made by pretentious, self important, music snobs and some people don't. There's no point in arguing over taste. I'll side with Steve on this one and for the record he had nothing to do with the Replacements' 'Let It Be'. That was Peter Jesperson and Steve Fjelstad.
Albini cares more than most people about what people think. That’s WHY he writes this stuff. It builds a certain audience. He knows exactly what he’s doing. He’s a ‘product’.
Steve Albini is my favorite recording engineer. He has recorded many of my favorite albums. I consider him one of our modern geniuses. He seems to be very modest, but if you listen to the results across totally unrelated bands you can hear his echo in the sound.
I'm always amazed at the number of people that really likes Steely Dan I have tried listening to them over and over again it is right up there with Eric Clapton solo work some of the most boring dad Rock I've ever heard and Steely Dan was renowned for making people in the studio just play it over and over and over and over again until they got their perfectionist way which might explain why most of their album sound completely devoid of any Soul or emotion as though created by AI. They would probably love this new AI era that we're about to enter into
Well at least you tried to listen. I love them and find the music moving and inspirational. Loving a certain band or type of music is like being in love, you can't choose who you fall in love with and everyone one loves something different. It's part of being human and what makes it all interesting. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Im a huge fan of both. Albini for a realistic band sound. Especially the drums. On the other end of the spectrum you have steely dan where the sheen of brilliant session guys meets slick clean production. And meticulous playing.
The history of Steely Dan, even them will not admit to this day. Hired Monkeys & their Orangutan musicians composing & arraigning music their corporate bosses IE: This next musican is gonna make money for us. When they didn't they got blamed. They started making there on shit. Biggest disappointments on my part: 1. Alan Parson Project stole their sound, um no, they were doing this long before you came around, you did a pre-poduction on a demo you were hired on. & stole their sound 2. The blantant homophobic rant on "Ricky don't lose my number" was not about a homosexual at all, It was in fact was Don Felder was mocking a studio musician they hired who was a massive cokehead but a flamer as well, & the coke dealer was a very charasmatic homosexual that the studio relied on for the goods, strung this poor guy along mercilessly. 3. Walter Becker whining his biggest disappointment is hearing "Fool for Dirty Work".It was filler song to complete an album under budget. It was one of their studio musicians who had no love for Felder & Becker, & when Felder said I'm done on this album walked out, this poor guy took to the keyboards & belted out the song as a joke. Record company forced Steely Dan to master this song
🤣 I saw this ridiculous statement by this man and had to google him to find out who on earth he is, then try to find something on RUclips about him. He's an overpaid engineer with life-issues. Dan are f@cking legends.
I have to say, I'm with Albini on this. If Becker and Fagan had a such a particular and precious vision, how about they just perform every part themselves? Oh wait, they couldn't. But they were perfectly willing to crap all over the people who could do something they couldn't.
They were primarily songwriters, and brilliant ones at that. In addition, Fagan is a very decent keyboardist. The fact that he played alongside of Marian McPartland and didn’t embarrass himself is proof enough (now go look up Marian). Becker was a competent bassist, and later in his life, he taught himself to play excellent bluesy guitar. Their last two albums feature only Becker handling all guitar solos. Becker and Fagan both more than held their own when I saw them live. Steely Dan used the studio as their primary instrument, just like Brian Wilson, Phil Spector, and countless other brilliant artists. Yes, they could be tyrants in the studio, but their work speaks mightily for itself to any musically literate listener.
I was part of the 80s hardcore punk scene in DC. I got out of it in my late teens and into classic rock like SD, LZ, Sabbath, and the Dead, because I found the punk scene had become so closed minded and orthodox. Glad you see that rigidity of opinion as well.
i've heard about 30 seconds of 5 songs maybe and i don't dare to listen to an entire album.sounds terribly boring for me.there's not an ounce of rock n roll in it.always heard the same "pop sensibility" bs.SALES DOESN'T MEAN QUALITY"that is what industry want us to believe since the elvis days.y'all can enjoy your steely dan music all you want.we,the rock n roll people don't want a part of it.go your way❤
From what I understand via interviews, Albini generally considers himself an engineer, rather than a producer. why I can't stand Jeff Lynne's work. He over produces. He ruins whatever he touches and it comes out smelling like ELO
Well Steve Albini, 1970-1980 was 50 + years ago when Steely Dan was at their peak. How many songs you were involved with still be listened to and talked about 50 years from now?
walter is a great guitarist, donald is a great keyboardist. like genuinely, and the fact they had the forsight to allow the best musicians for the best parts of the albums they produced is just as impressive as if they recorded it all by themselves. they played those songs thousands of times themselves live, they are more than compitent. they want the finished product to be the best it could sound and thats very respectable
This sounds like a rant for attention from Albini, who until watching this video I didn't know existed. Now that I have an idea of who he is I don't care to know any more about him. On the other side of the coin, I have the entire Steely Dan discography and listen to it regularly. Enough said.
I love Albini, his music, and his engineering work, but sometimes he takes stances that are veeeeery obvious and cliche, almost like an angsty teenager. I'm not even that big a fan of Steely Dan, but I feel like Steely Dan is unfairly used as an example of a "lame band", sorta like Nickelback (maybe not the best example, as Steely Dan has great musicians and Nickelback _is_ kinda lame). His contrarian-ness has softened over the years, though. I think even he acknowledges that he was insufferable in his younger years.
I really like a great deal of Steely Dan’s material (not all) and I like some of the material that Steve Albini has produced. I am sorry that Albini feels the need to judge or witness against a very successful band with a formula for incredible success. I agree that this is just music. Albini is just revealing his character. Perhaps Billy Hume thought higher of Albini and is frustrated that someone who he had some respect for has under performed in the character department. It is so easy to get pissed at hypocrites but it is a waste of time and creative energy. Anyway, good discussion but not worth heart burn.
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Albini considers himself above all as an engineer..that is more the angle he is coming from.He is entitled to his opinion.
Albini's viewpoint is that an artist who needs a producer to drive the sound of their record, isn't an artist at all because they have no vision, Albini can surely contribute but he expects an self-respecting artist to know what their album should sound like and it shouldn't be up to Albini to make that determination since he's not a member of their band. When a producer imposes their own "style" on an Album it detaches that album from what the band would produce live by themselves, it becomes an unauthentic portrayal of that band, that's his idea.
Albini has no issues with doing double takes it's more that it seems Steely Dan didn't know what they wanted until they heard it and made people do things over and over and over wasting everyone's time in pursuit of something they liked, there's a lack of vision and professionalism that's apparent in that approach.
Then again that's how Stanley Kubrick made movies and it clearly worked out for him and for Steely Dan, but i can understand where Albini's criticism comes from, just differering viewpoints
Steve Albini was insufferable. Many of the greatest albums of all time had creative input from a producer. I personally am not a fan of Albini's dry production. While he's trying to get the sound of the band live, that's impossible first of all. In the process you get neither the sound of the band live, nor the best that they can sound in the studio. You get a relatively dry and lifeless recording.
I fucking love Steely Dan. 😁
I like Albini's producer work. Shit I even like Big Black's records. But I fucking LOVE Steely Dan. In a competition between some nebulous idea of "punk cred" or "ethos" and "good music," "fine musicianship," I'll take the latter every damn time. I grew up with "punk rock" fans and the majority of them were middle class kids obsessed with image and aesthetic, not music as a path or craft. Its funny cuz the rest of my larger friend group that came from either lower working class or straight up broken homes, we loved the anti-punk stuff like King Crimson, Yes, and Steely Dan, especially George (if you're out there brother, the only other kid that knew every song by heart, you were cool af). Punk rock is fine, i especially love the Clash and Black Flag, but the broader punk movement always struck me as largely uncool specifically because of that obsession with image and cred. Clash and Black Flag were into their music, they gave a fuck, maybe not as much as Walter and Donald but there was still this striving to serve a sound or a song. There is nothing cooler than striving to serve the song, to serve the feeling a particular point in a composition should engender in the listener. That's peak cool imo and i live by that.
Right on! My feeling exactly. I couldn't have said this better myself.
Punk has more longevity when it comes to lyrical content that will stick with people over the years. Most Steely Dan fans can hardly decipher what the songs are about. I haven't even watched the video yet, ha ha but I love Steely Dan in so many ways and can appreciate their lyrical collages but the punk drive to hammer meaningful messages from atypical sources have its own strength. Now I'll watch the video.
I'll take musicianship but I've never been a fan of Steely Dan. I'd rather listen to Big Black than Steely Dan. Having said that, I'm not a fan of Albini's production style. While he's trying to get the sound of the band live, that's impossible first of all. In the process he gets neither the sound of the band live, nor the best that they can sound in the studio. You get a relatively dry and lifeless recording most of the time.
“I never really listen to the Pistols’ music anymore. I’m fucking tired of it, to be honest with you. I’d rather listen to Steely Dan.”
~ Steve Jones, former Sex Pistols guitarist, in an interview with The Telegraph, May 27, 2022
😌
I don't care how many musicians it took or how long it took to get the end product. ...I get eargasms lol on 99% of their cd's.The best studio band I have ever heard...period!
In the end the only thing that matters is what comes out of the speakers.
"The Royal Scam" album was my favorite but, I love them all.
Punk rock fans often get stuck in high school level opinions about music.
I know so many who get stuck in 70's classic rock exponentially more.
He not only never called himself a producer, he actively insisted that he wasn't a producer, and actively repeated that he was a 'recording engineer'. So at 6:50 you seem to have missed an extremely important aspect of him and to be talking tangentially about him and his approach. And I'd suggest the quotes about SD at the beginning are kind of removed from the context he meant them in, i.e. how their approach didn't fit his own aesthetic taste for a sound with life, or his idea of doing things that would be satisfying for him or most musicians he worked with. You talk a lot about what he said people 'should' or 'shouldn't' do, but as far as I could tell he talked about it as his own approach and aesthetic response, not as any kind of dictate. And also he actively said that if artists wanted to create purely artificial sounds in the studio then that was their choice and he would facilitate whatever they wanted. The issue was allowing their own aesthetic, seeing as they were the paying customer, to be left to them and not manipulated by him unnecessarily or unsolicited, as he admits he did to an extent with that Pixies record, one of his earlier jobs. The only time I recall him using the word 'unethical' as concerns doing his type of work was in regard to dipping into the band's income with a percentage instead of a fee for his time as a recording engineer, and he only called it that because he knew, as he explained, that it would be taken from the band, not from the label's or anyone else's profits. He was 'pro artist' and for their own free creativity through and through. And he had his own tastes, and didn't deny anyone their own. There are plenty of interviews with him to get a better insight. If people want to be seriously 'produced' they were free to do that, but it wasn't what he did or what he enjoyed and he didn't feel it was for him to impose anything onto a record that the artist didn't want. They came to him asking to be recorded, not to have their sound processed into something it wasn't really.
Good insight.
Steely Dan isn't above criticism. If Albini doesn't like them, he's in good company. Those who do like them are also in good company. The greater point is, people shouldn't be constrained in their commentary. When we force people to hold some standard of "niceness" in order to not offend anyone, we don't get real opinions. And why should the surviving member of Steely Dan care? His legacy is secure.
How dare you have a differing opinion
Does Albini like ANY jazz or Rock-Jazz fusion?
As for SD's working process, they are the Stanley Kubrick of pop-jazz music. It's the end that justifies the means.
Good point!
He hated jazz
Yes and no, not a fan of jazz but in reality he recorded some avant guard Jazz band like Zu. Albini is an incredible person, despite his strong opinion on Steely Dan.
Also he call himself as an engineer and not producer.
He also have recorded many many many great and very different and unique records. The music he has done is very unique so the argument that punk want some sort of uniqueness is not true IMHO
@@ufoufo2788some of his own music was nearly avant- guard jazz
Steely Dan is one of the greatest groups of all time!! Apparently Steve Albini doesn't understand what a real producer does... what about George Martin? As great as the Beatles were, George Martin contributed enough to be considered the fifth Beatle. Certain producers have their own "sound" which is why artists want to work with them. A producer is the musical equivalent to a Movie Director... so the actors should tell Steven Spielberg how to make a movie? If Steve Albini wants to take his philosophy to it's logical conclusion than it means he's irrelevant. Numerous people can push buttons and follow orders so why work with him? He adds nothing to the project!!! 🎸
Truth
Steve Albini was an Engineer dumbass so apparently you don’t even know the difference between an Engineer and Producer…. You do realize it was Geoff Emerick “creating the sound” of the beatles and that George Martin never even touched the board? But of course George gets all the credit because he could write music and wrote out the beatles string arrangements. Still George Martin never mixed a song or touched the board he definitely helped by telling Geoff what he liked and didn’t like but that’s about as far deep into shaping sound that George went.
Agreed but Albini didn’t wanna pollute the band with his own style both work for their different styles
That's exactly right. He stays the F out of the band's way and lets them be a band and sound they way THEY want to sound, not the way some corporate boardroom wants them to sound.
Big Black Friday. Bazooka Josie. Bad sneakers, bad houses, I love 'em both. Now cue the mashups....
Awesome!
Nice! Especially liked the comment about getting our priorities right! Great stuff.
I think Steve is an engineer and he records the artists music. Hes not a 'producer', he doesn't tell them what to do or even give his opinion. He lets the artist's decisions speak for themselves.
Yet every album he "engineered" sounds like he produced them and told everyone exacly what to play... He is the fakest of the fake. Dishonest.
By his own admission he’s just an engineer! I don’t know why people find it so hard to stick with that title. Like fine, call him a producer if you dislike him and want to diss him, but you will see literal fanboys call him a producer over and over.
Cool. Any chance someone could have him promise to never play the guitar again? That would be great. Thanks.
@@songboy40He’s a great guitar player, I’ve heard him before and he’s a rocket on the axe.
At 3:30, you say the ‘bring in a group of musicians, then fire them’. [paraphrasing] This is likely wrong. In many cases, they would hire multiple sections, and give them a shot at the groove and feel. If a certain line-up ‘failed’ at a certain groove, they’d often be back for a different tune, and the results would be kept. It’s not that they fired people. It’s that they hired multiple lineups.
You are correct. I said that because of some of the stories I read where their way of handling musicians wasn't always polite to say the least. But I'm pretty sure many could say the same about me.
That first Boston demo is one of the most sonic things ever recorded
You’re the best 😊 and totally right about talking in a healthy way about what really matters. This kind of my team vs your team stuff puts folks in a box when what we need is liberation. Glad to see you back with a new video. Been awhile.
Thanks! I got a a project that turned out to be more involved than I thought it would be. It's had me out of town as well. But I'm getting back to the original plan.
Steely Dan brings me such great memories, especially when our small town was finally able to pick up FM radio signals in the 70s. I didn't have albums at the time but wow to hear songs on AM radio and get blown away by these great songs on FM radio, that's when I started playing guitar.
Same here. Makes me think of a few adventures we had back in then day.
Me looking up Steve Albini and wondering why I never heard of him (sorry Steve). I do know who is Steely Dan. :-)
I'm not a fan of Albini's sound. However I love what he says about the music industry and his willingness to speak his mind... even if I don't agree.
Don't all so called "punks" hate anybody with musical chops. Punk rock proved that anyone with very little musical talent could be in bands also, and this overated hack proves it. Frank Zappa was right.
Ha Ha! So true!
Are you really, REALLY, sure that you know what you're Talking about?
Husker Du, Wire, Black Flag, Sonic Youth, Fugazi, NoMeansNo, late 80s Pixies (Just to name a few) are talentless punk bands?
Are you really sure?
There are exceptions of course, I like some of those bands you mentioned. I think Zappa meant some of the original punk bands, who hated anyone with musical chops.@@Brokenface
@@Brokenfacethat list is endless.
Yup, and I'm glad for the fact that there is music like that in the world. If "having musical chops" means every band sounding like Zappa or Steely Dan, I'd put a f-ing bullet in my brain.
Albini is nihilistic. Someone who sees the darkness in everything would chafe at popular music that's polished with the most meticulous precision. He favors abrasiveness.There's a Big Black EP cover that's so horrific, it shows his sensibilities. That being said, he's talented and a great producer.
Headache.
@@neilaspin008 That's the one. You can never unsee it.
He’s also a pretty terrible musician. As modern engineers go, his musical ear is average, at best.
The effort and approach Fagan and Walter put into those albums (technologically and sonically) was undeniably ahead of the time and we are absolutely the beneficiaries of their work. No questions about that!
That you are the man to facilitate the dreams of the musician. I am all in. Bless you for coming forward and orating truths. That you are still swinging the bat for an industry which has morphed into what it is today. Maybe there is hope. Note: Queen 2, Boston. Know you like these too.Ziggy
Steely Dan sucks except for the name, which is taken from Naked Lunch by Burroughs, so I let that slide. And Deacon Blues is okay.
What's the story with that Tele? I can't make out the finish, but it's killer.
I was at a music story buying a bunch of gear for my future Ex inn the 80's. I just wanted to buy something for myself and I saw that pink paisley beauty across the store and told him to put it on the bill without trying it out. $250. It's a made in Japan version of a more expensive line but it sounds pretty good.
Got a link to your stuff?!?
Here's my Linktree link. You can find the other platforms and my Spotify which has a couple of songs on it. More to come... linktr.ee/billyhume
Steely Dan's music is like chess to Albini's checkers. No contest.
Yes
Funny how nobody ever brings up Steely Dan's lyrics as their strength. Whereas punk is generally equally about the message. It's kinda apples and oranges.i wouldn't want to live in a world without Steely Dan creativity or without the punk message.
look, I have always maintained that people that don't like Steely Dan don't really like music, but taking a critique seriously about this (non) issue from someone who is under the impression that Albini produced Slanted & Enchanted and Let It Be is just too much to ask....
Steely Dan sucks
No, if you don't like Steely Dan you don't like boring, soulless, shit
I think Albini is really passionate about his way of producing and Steely Dan represents pretty much the opposite of that. And honestly, as someone who also gets annoyed with the "genious perfectionist" archetype, I totally get it.
Now, why did he feel he needed to share his opinion? That I don't know hahaha. I think that's just Albini being Albini.
That being said. I really think this is a nothing burger
Yep.... I don't really care that much but it makes good conversation for many
Wonder what Butch Vig or Jack Endino think of Steely Dan.
Then to hear what Albini says about producers. Makes me respect him even more.
That oligarchy comment at the end, I felt that.
Really agree with Albini
I don't completely agree with what he said but I love it as banter and that he had the balls to say it. 😁 SD has become so idolized in music fandom recently.
I think Albini is just stirring the pot, and I'm all for it as a Steely Dan fan. I read his tweets and laughed.
I agree.
He wrote crappy music in his band, and I don't think his records sound that great to be honest - I find him to be terribly overrated, for him to call out Steely Dan is just hilarious. The musicanship of Steely Dan; from Steve Gadd and Wayne Shorter's performances on Aja to many of Larry Carlton's legendary guitar solos...let alone the harmonic/melodic complexity Steely Dan incorporated, and I'll say even tricked the American public to thinking was rock and roll was high genius. Or the lyrical content of Steely Dan carrying on the Beats through the lens of the jaded growing up in 70's America..or Steely Dan and their engineers using a sampled drum machine in 1978 on Gaucho..or their groundbreaking use of DAT recording...it goes on and on and on...versus a guy from Big Black who recorded Nirvana once and a bunch of other mediocre bands. Not liking Steely Dan's music is one thing, calling them out on social media just to show you have punk cred just makes him look like a total fool.
He doesn't like Ricky Gervais either, or anyone who calls out woke bullshit.
Criticizing an artist’s methods and works makes no sense. Every artist must follow their own vision. There is no right or wrong. Real artists must not care what other people think.
There was some point after American Idol became popular where it seemed like so many people saw music as some sort of contest. Weird.
@Freaking Out With Billy Hume - True. Who gets to determine standards for arts? I had a student once who claimed that a famous singer was great based on the fact that she was popular. Sheesh.
Steve must have secretly wanted to make an album that held it's own against any Steely Dan album. One could be so lucky and or talented to do so.
Quick, tell me how much you DON’T know about Albini in ten minutes or more!
This is so interesting! I love your videos dad!
Thank you my son!
What about their best album The royal scam?
I've been painting some rooms in the house and have been blasting every SD song I can find. Love them all.
@@FreakingOutWithBillyHume sounds like an awesome time to make the time fly by 🎶🎸
Talk about missing the point. He's exhibiting his punk rock sense of humor. It was fucking hilarious, And he even takes some jabs at himself.
It's time for some situational awareness, folks.
Steve Albini had nothing to do with the Replacements' "Let It Be" album, aside from writing a scathing review of the album as a betrayal of the Replacements' previous albums and punk style.
Yes. It's been pointed out to me a few times. Just one of those mistakes that got by me.
@@FreakingOutWithBillyHume No biggie.
I think Albini’s criticism comes from a place of professionalism, ironically enough for the reputation of punks. It’s fine if an artist wants to perfect a guitar solo but it’s unarguable that renting a studio for weeks to perfect one guitar solo is an outrageous waste of time and money. A rehearsal space is cheap, a recording studio staffed with skilled engineers and technicians is many times more expensive.
I will say that I also agree with Albini’s objections to the devaluation of the blues. Over decades our culture has taken the blues from Robert Johnson’s, Junior Kimbrough’s, etc. soulful art to now when most people think of “the blues” they think about a dentist with a $5K Gibson doing a corny imitation of SRV licks.
Steely Dan was more punk rock than anything Steve Albini ever produced. They are the ultimate nonconformists. They made songs that sound like no one else's. In fact, while punk bands tend to all share a similar approach and sonic imprint, simple, fast, straight ahead with a dose of nihilism, Steely Dan is that rare musical accomplishment that no one can imitate. I love me some punk rock, but it's like comparing Beethoven to Britney Spears. RIP dead man.
That is so not true. Steely Dan is no more punk rock than Pope
@@pillbugs100 You're missing his point.
Steve Albini's opinion matters to some people. I'm not one of them.
True. I don't think anyone's opinion matters in a way. I'll take a viewpoint into consideration but in the end I'm going to do what I want to do.
I am
Ok, so, I stopped the video at 53 seconds to ask: Who gives a fuck about what Steve Albini thinks? I mean, I think his way of going at record making is fine, if you’re into that sort of thing. I guess. The interesting thing about this to me, is that people like SD, Toto, etc… have no problem letting Steve make his adorable little barely listenable barely in tune rock albums in peace, without pointing out that many of us completely surpassed the musical vocabulary contained in them by 9th grade. It seems to be HIM who’s always telling the world that HE is ‘cooler’, and ‘indier than thou’. It’s ridiculous. Truly.
Ha ha! Well, seems like a lot of people do care. I usually don't but I was probably having a bad day. I've never understood the whole Steely Dan debate, but I figured I'd step in for a minute.
@@FreakingOutWithBillyHume I'm glad you did it.
I fuckin love Steely Dan and yet mourn over Albini’s sudden passing away because the music engineered by him is generally good and enjoyable and because he is sincere to the bands and their music in respectable manner. As Donald Fagen is precious to me, so is Steve Albini, including his versatility including cooking and poker, let alone his fierce performance as vocalist/guitarist. And I do not fuckin understand what is wrong with that. The fact that Albini disliked or dismissed Steely Dan does not make me dislike nor dismiss Steely Dan. I am not him.
That's kind of how I feel. It's not like we have to choose sides.
Either an overreaction on Albini's part or maybe a form of self-promotion designed to get attention. I mean Phil Spector was a total studio geek too requiring multiple takes. Roy Thomas Baker too. All that said, there was a degree of excess peculiar to the 70s and The Dan was known for taking their time and sometimes swapping out entire bands for a tune, or bringing in specialists, just to see what might happen. It was an experiment and I get that... While I like SD (and came of age in the 70s) I think channels like Beato's have led to his followers (which are legion) recently re-deifying SD in a way that excludes the possibility that things like punk music, or anything that doesn't use slash chords or veteran session pros ,is valid.
It's also cool to be a chord snob now - "hey that min7b5 (a pedestrian chord) really tightened up the last bar of the verse" and rave over obscure productions details as if a barely audible glockenspiel during a chorus is responsible for s song being a hit. It get's tedious when people live in the minutae. As a recovering chord snob / production geek myself I've still always manage to recognize music has energy and sometimes it's best to get it fresh off the wire than hyper-processed or played over by "the pros" until it's right. But I'm also pretty sure that Steely Dan knows what they were/are doing - and at the time it was just part of a process. Albini is a geek too, even if he won't admit that and it's likely his process looks as peculiar to some as does SD's to him.
I too think that Albini sometimes says these things for promotion. Afterall, he's known more so than most of the bands he;s recorded.
I worked with Beato off and on for a few years (and started making videos at his urging). Back when we worked together he never really talked about SD or anything like that and was about raw and aggressive rock, which is most of what we were recording. I knew he had a jazz background but never realized how deep it was till he blew up on RUclips. So in a weird way I've learned about both capturing emotion and spontaneity from a band as well as more sophisticated music theory and such from him. There is a place for both within the same song.
@@FreakingOutWithBillyHume Thanks for your channel. I see you did the Bonecrusher stuff. Cool.. So I "did time" in lots of wedding and corporate event bands so acquired lots of practical harmonic knowledge on the "front lines". So when I later studied music it really helped. Once you start using 4 notes per chord there is higher level of responsibility to insure voice leading and resolution. On the other hand, it's not necessarily "jazz" but it can certainly head that way. I think in the 70s and 80s you learned your trade as musician by playing out a lot. I know I did (not that I'm any better than the next guy) but you acquire a very good ear for what works harmonically.For example, I don't think in terms of slash chords - I just think of the tonality and revoice accordingly.
As a fledgling producer, I would just bug the hell out of guys I liked to observe and help out. ( I soon learned my talents are more in the music area ha ha). I generally like Rick's channel but a fair amount of the theory stuff he discusses is readily available in music courses and/or lots of playing experience. Nonetheless, I still learn from everyone though and always like to hear different perspectives. Albini is a bit nutty but hey look at Phil Spector (not that they are necessarily comparable). Perfectionists are usually quite opinionated.
I'm a perfectionist and am quite opinionated. However I recognized that it's just MY opinion. I'll state it but it's up to the people I work with to except or reject it.
I'm pretty sure nobody cares what Steve Albini thinks about Steely Dan.
I do.
Love Steely Dan, love Albini!
Are we allowed to love both? Just kidding. I'm more along this line myself.
All of the lead guitar players on Peg were payed well for their time just like Jay. Steely took care of all session players. They just used their favorite takes.
Good rant!
Thanks!
Also Steve has never refered to himself as a producer and has actually refered to himself as an engineer since the behinning of his production career!!!
You know what matters? Long standing appreciation. And people that love complex music, upper extended chords, and multi instrumentation will be loving and sharing Steely Dan for years and years after everyone forgot who Steve Albini was. F him.
Not too sure about that one lol. Steve has a pretty epic resume.
Sure. But as far as the number of people who have heard and the music each has made I'd bet Steely Dan has him beat.
hahaha, from the looks of it this is just albini being inflammatory like he normally is. i think in the modern day you would call this behavior "trolling". he certainly has a history of being facetious in this way to rile people up, i think he just enjoys toying with people like this, and i bet he would get a pretty good chuckle out of this video. saying this as a huge albini fan and big steely dan fan too
I think you're right. He just like stirring things up. I hope he sees this.
Actually, I'd love it if he ripped my production and mixing apart.
If you combined Steve Albini with Rick Rubin you’d have a pretty well-rounded producer… 😂
Sure, but he'd look really weird.
I really respected Steve Albini (RIP) but I agree with your comments about diversity in the producer's role depending on the circumstances. Albini made it affordable for many bands to make recordings. I know Steely Dan (and I like their earlier albums up to but not including Aja) and have no issues with their demanding production style and schedule. They can do whatever they want because it is their own artistic statement and they had the power to do this because of their early success. They could do this especially since they started in a time period where they could get radio play. I'm not sure if they started in the last 20 years they would have made it as big as they are.
Crazy to think now how Steely Dan was on popular radio back then. And yes, if they came out today they wouldn't be mainstream but probably could get a cult following.
Bottom line the most important question is did the musicians get paid? Pretty sure they did
AND they got credited.
Steve Albini world of things are great tools moving forward. I do like this rant on how we move forward. I personally think while being in this industry in my 20's was a very real thing. My band and mates definitely had this thing going on about the music industry where stories were being talked about. Now that I have lived through these experiences and lived some time can I grasp what I think happened over the generations. It seems to be the folks at the top of major Corporations force feeding down the chain of command what the top mega bankers want or wanted. It is not the great engineers and producers that are the problem. Heck, being in a major studio recording a record for the first time was an amazing experience personally. We had incredible say in what our music on the album would sound like in the end. We recorded our first big demo professionally in a major studio without a major label breathing down our necks. Our next step was to ship our resume to the major labels hoping that a career would secure our future. We departed all of that for many reasons. We always talked about being in a successful band selling out clubs 500/800 people. Selling merchandise, etc. That was the way to go. Living under an "Oligopoly" type of rigged system is a dead end unless submission. Common sense kicked in to becoming a slave forever. We are obviously now living under the reverse engineering of this rigged system even if things in the real world look bad. This is why things are so bad. Babylon has fallen.
Wait, Albini was working on Slanted and Enchanted?? I see no record of it but like you said, he doesn't always put his name to the thing. But I get 0 results on that one. Pavement did work with Drag City before Matador which Albini def has ties to (Palace, Joanna, BPB etc ) but I don't see anything about Slanted. Slint on the other hand, I know he did Tweez.
I made some mistakes when making tjhis video. It was the one time I used AI to help me and it got so much stuff wrong. Sorry about that.
steve is happy to spend as much time as you’d like refining the details of your sound or any other aspect of your recording. think there’s a big misconception here about how he actually works with bands and artists. plenty of videos on youtube showing sessions with him at electrical do indeed show that he has multiple ways of approaching things depending on who he’s working with and what they want and ask for. his comments about steely dan really shouldn’t be conflated and construed as some sort of metaphor to cast light on what some might ignorantly believe to be the way he works as an engineer.
Albini was the CEO of the hipster/punk bubble.
Albini would be hard pressed to care what anyone else thinks and I'll venture SD's position in western popular music is secure and can handle a few slings and arrows. His opinions, like his music, have a limited audience and from what I know of him he's fine with that. He made valid points about SD. Some people like their music made by pretentious, self important, music snobs and some people don't. There's no point in arguing over taste. I'll side with Steve on this one and for the record he had nothing to do with the Replacements' 'Let It Be'. That was Peter Jesperson and Steve Fjelstad.
Thanks. The credits got confusing and I took out all the ones I thought were wrong. Apparently I missed that one.
@@FreakingOutWithBillyHume No worries. History gets re-written with a thousand tiny cuts. Just gotta stay on top. Cheers.
Albini cares more than most people about what people think. That’s WHY he writes this stuff. It builds a certain audience. He knows exactly what he’s doing. He’s a ‘product’.
Some people like their music made by pretentious, self important, music snobs and some people don't
your talking about Steely Dan here right?
Steve Albini is just one of those luckless predestrians uninvited to the Custerdome parties 😂
I like what you said at the end though
Steve Albini is my favorite recording engineer. He has recorded many of my favorite albums. I consider him one of our modern geniuses. He seems to be very modest, but if you listen to the results across totally unrelated bands you can hear his echo in the sound.
At this point it’s just straight cringey that anyone has a Twitter/X account. Albini doing it seems like caricature
Sorry, Steve. The results of all the hard work still hold up after all these years. I am in the Steely camp on this one.
I'm always amazed at the number of people that really likes Steely Dan I have tried listening to them over and over again it is right up there with Eric Clapton solo work some of the most boring dad Rock I've ever heard and Steely Dan was renowned for making people in the studio just play it over and over and over and over again until they got their perfectionist way which might explain why most of their album sound completely devoid of any Soul or emotion as though created by AI. They would probably love this new AI era that we're about to enter into
Well at least you tried to listen. I love them and find the music moving and inspirational. Loving a certain band or type of music is like being in love, you can't choose who you fall in love with and everyone one loves something different. It's part of being human and what makes it all interesting. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Im a huge fan of both. Albini for a realistic band sound. Especially the drums. On the other end of the spectrum you have steely dan where the sheen of brilliant session guys meets slick clean production. And meticulous playing.
I feel that him and Donald Fagen they would get along quite well actually
The history of Steely Dan, even them will not admit to this day. Hired Monkeys & their Orangutan musicians composing & arraigning music their corporate bosses IE: This next musican is gonna make money for us. When they didn't they got blamed. They started making there on shit. Biggest disappointments on my part: 1. Alan Parson Project stole their sound, um no, they were doing this long before you came around, you did a pre-poduction on a demo you were hired on. & stole their sound 2. The blantant homophobic rant on "Ricky don't lose my number" was not about a homosexual at all, It was in fact was Don Felder was mocking a studio musician they hired who was a massive cokehead but a flamer as well, & the coke dealer was a very charasmatic homosexual that the studio relied on for the goods, strung this poor guy along mercilessly. 3. Walter Becker whining his biggest disappointment is hearing "Fool for Dirty Work".It was filler song to complete an album under budget. It was one of their studio musicians who had no love for Felder & Becker, & when Felder said I'm done on this album walked out, this poor guy took to the keyboards & belted out the song as a joke. Record company forced Steely Dan to master this song
Steely Dan are the soundtrack of my life !!
Yes! For much of mine too.
🤣 I saw this ridiculous statement by this man and had to google him to find out who on earth he is, then try to find something on RUclips about him. He's an overpaid engineer with life-issues. Dan are f@cking legends.
Steve who?
I have to say, I'm with Albini on this. If Becker and Fagan had a such a particular and precious vision, how about they just perform every part themselves? Oh wait, they couldn't. But they were perfectly willing to crap all over the people who could do something they couldn't.
They were primarily songwriters, and brilliant ones at that. In addition, Fagan is a very decent keyboardist. The fact that he played alongside of Marian McPartland and didn’t embarrass himself is proof enough (now go look up Marian). Becker was a competent bassist, and later in his life, he taught himself to play excellent bluesy guitar. Their last two albums feature only Becker handling all guitar solos. Becker and Fagan both more than held their own when I saw them live. Steely Dan used the studio as their primary instrument, just like Brian Wilson, Phil Spector, and countless other brilliant artists. Yes, they could be tyrants in the studio, but their work speaks mightily for itself to any musically literate listener.
I was part of the 80s hardcore punk scene in DC. I got out of it in my late teens and into classic rock like SD, LZ, Sabbath, and the Dead, because I found the punk scene had become so closed minded and orthodox. Glad you see that rigidity of opinion as well.
I agree with Steve Albini. I listened to all of Steely Dan's albums and it just sounds like a very drawn out coke comedown.
Not an albini fan, but hard not to agree with everything he said about Steely Dan 😂
Frank Zappa liked Steely Dan, and this hack doesn't. Who's taste do I respect more?
Zappa is God.
@@shinybeast8946 10 comedy points 😂
@@MifuneRUclips Albini is a dime a dozen 'punk." Someone like Zappa comes along once in a lifetime. So, the joke's on you, buddy.
Steely Dan rules.
i've heard about 30 seconds of 5 songs maybe and i don't dare to listen to an entire album.sounds terribly boring for me.there's not an ounce of rock n roll in it.always heard the same "pop sensibility" bs.SALES DOESN'T MEAN QUALITY"that is what industry want us to believe since the elvis days.y'all can enjoy your steely dan music all you want.we,the rock n roll people don't want a part of it.go your way❤
Love both Steely Dan and Steve Albini 🤘🫡😌
What??? I thought we had to choose sides!
@@FreakingOutWithBillyHume haha nah 😎
From what I understand via interviews, Albini generally considers himself an engineer, rather than a producer.
why I can't stand Jeff Lynne's work. He over produces. He ruins whatever he touches and it comes out smelling like ELO
Steve Albini’s work on Soundgarden will live on.
Lol
Another reason to like Steve Albini.
Roger Osborne, the singer of the Melvins, is another annoying gatekeeper. He hates his name, that’s why he goes by “King Buzzo”…😐
Well Steve Albini, 1970-1980 was 50 + years ago when Steely Dan was at their peak. How many songs you were involved with still be listened to and talked about 50 years from now?
Who doesn’t live SD I have a suspicion Steve may have liked them deep down even tho they basically opposites
Steve Albini is the final level of edgelord…A complete Johnny PunkRock cliche…
Cry harder
@@stevenhenry5267😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 is that enough tears for you? 😢
walter is a great guitarist, donald is a great keyboardist. like genuinely, and the fact they had the forsight to allow the best musicians for the best parts of the albums they produced is just as impressive as if they recorded it all by themselves. they played those songs thousands of times themselves live, they are more than compitent. they want the finished product to be the best it could sound and thats very respectable
This sounds like a rant for attention from Albini, who until watching this video I didn't know existed. Now that I have an idea of who he is I don't care to know any more about him.
On the other side of the coin, I have the entire Steely Dan discography and listen to it regularly. Enough said.
This fucking hippie is hilarious. I'm not sure this isn't a David Cross character.
Steely Dan is the best popular music of the last 50 years. Yes, better than The Beatles.
I was going to say that the Beatles are better but then I realized that I listen to Steely Dan WAY more than the Beatles.
9:40 frr
I think SD went through so many studio musicians as a kind of joke as they were getting the musicians paid on the company dime.
Sure. But those fees eventually get deducted from artist royalties. Back then the artist was responsible for recovering all costs.
I love Albini, his music, and his engineering work, but sometimes he takes stances that are veeeeery obvious and cliche, almost like an angsty teenager. I'm not even that big a fan of Steely Dan, but I feel like Steely Dan is unfairly used as an example of a "lame band", sorta like Nickelback (maybe not the best example, as Steely Dan has great musicians and Nickelback _is_ kinda lame). His contrarian-ness has softened over the years, though. I think even he acknowledges that he was insufferable in his younger years.
I've never understood hating bands and having to talk about them publicly. However... I saw the worst band I've ever seen this last weekend.
I really like a great deal of Steely Dan’s material (not all) and I like some of the material that Steve Albini has produced. I am sorry that Albini feels the need to judge or witness against a very successful band with a formula for incredible success. I agree that this is just music. Albini is just revealing his character. Perhaps Billy Hume thought higher of Albini and is frustrated that someone who he had some respect for has under performed in the character department. It is so easy to get pissed at hypocrites but it is a waste of time and creative energy. Anyway, good discussion but not worth heart burn.