"Vampire Survivors Only Works Because We're Stupid"
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- by @ArchitectofGames • Vampire Survivors Only...
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It’s funny how he never brings up the fact that the guy who made VampireSurvivors used to make slot machine programs, so it’s completely understandable why he knows exactly how to stimulate a persons brain
what if his slot machine programs were never successful so he switched to something new xD
Quality content, huh?
If the game never goes towards that horrible monetize everything microtransaction lootbox madness, I think it's wonderfully wholesome how he decided to just give that dopamine rush to people in a game that does not ruin their life savings
@@viddeliten dude literally used his skills for good instead of evil. It’s so very rare.
@@lensbergus6224 dude have you seen the five chest animation if anything he was probably getting paid more
I might have missed that being mentioned, but 2 additional things VS does:
All health and damage values are multiplied by 10. E.g. when a weapon reads 5 damage in the files, it ends up being 50. And the second, weapon damage has a visual range of -5 and +5, but this is purely visual. The actual value of damage it deals is the center point. Meaning if you see 25 to 35, the hits actually deal 30. And I guess playing into that, Pentagram always shows 666 damage -/+ 5, but in reality it deals max HP as damage to the enemy. So if the enemy has maxHp of 800 and currently 200 left, it will deal 800 and show 661 to 671.
what is this?? kinda nerdy even for a gamer myself lol
It doesn't take a genius to realize that Vamp Survivor is so much fun because it's a cheap dopamine rush. One small success follows the next. And lots of colorful pictures. I love it.
It's a cheap dopamine rush in both regards - literally cheap to buy, and requires little to no effort.
Vampire Survivors has got to be in the top 10 of most efficient 'effort to dopamine' ratio games.
This shit needs to be studied thoroughly
@@KaykyG018 kind of? Although sometimes you do it for more of the "ahh I'm angry" chemical then dopamine.
Like slot machines
The developer used to be a software engineer in the gambling industry. He pretty much designed the game like a slot machine without the gambling.
I don't even pay attention to the numbers. I pay attention to the gradual gain of power from vulnerable peasant to untouchable god.
Along with the constant stream of upgrades & unlocks of new toys to keep me going. The game makes half an hour feel like ten minutes its so absorbing.
I have numbers disabled all the time...still love the game
That’s all still decided by numbers that were designed in the same way
turned off damage numbers everytime unless it's turn based game.
Same, I never pay attention to them. In most games I can't even read the tiny text of the number anyway so I literally ignore it. The only thing I use the number for is when there is a status effect on an enemy and I see the numbers popping up so I know he's still affected. But even then I'm still not looking at the number.
@@robertwyatt3912 Isn't the point.
"You just run around in circles collecting pellets, how could that be fun?"
Pacman: Am I a joke to you?
Dodging enemies, positioning to kill more, take strategy about upgrades to keep surviving until end, it's not only about take pellets
i like how this specific joke always manages to work, there's always some way older game that shares a comaprable trait to the game being discussed.
I remember when I was a child, I asked my dad if a rabbit's food was lucky. He told me "Well, it wasn't very lucky for the rabbit, and he had 4 of them".
very wise man
Most people in this comment section kinda forgot the point that he isn't saying "Vampire Survivors is bad because of this:" but explain why it works so well. He isn't saying you shouldn't have fun but why you are having fun.
It almost feels like the comments are reacting to the thumbnail instead of the video
the comments prove the title right.
What are you talking about? The guy literally said "Vampire Survivors" should NOT be fun. He's very much criticising the game design philosophy behind the game, and I disagree with him. VS actually gives you the option to turn off the damage numbers and I can confirm the game is just as fun without the numbers showing up, which proves his theory wrong.
frfr nobody on this planet plays with dmg numbers on dudes just a youtuber who has to make videos for a living thats about the only reason that vid exists@@Tangvu
@@miceatah9359I play with damage numbers on lol
I decide what's fun. This is fun.
Same
Based and funpilled.
telling everyone your stupid without telling everyone your stupid
I'm going to wait for the part where the guy in the video says the game isn't fun
It better be there
Unbelievably based
I played so much vampire survivors the last two days that when I close my eyes I see experience shards converging to where the bridge of my nose is. You know that feeling when you look at somewhere very bright for too long and then get those flashes of light when you close your eyes? Yeah I have that for experience shards.
I had that happen with Halo 3 back in the day. Used to get drunk and play it couch co-op with my buddy for hours. Later on in life, I actually had it with spreadsheets. You can probably guess why. Thankfully I don't work on a screen anymore.
Asmon should play this game again his Vampire Survivors series is one of the best series I have seen on RUclips.
It's gotten a ton of updates and a DLC since then. Good stuff
@@maddlad_l5257 i wanted to comment the same. i wanna see him slay
It is just so boring.
I found that series less enjoyable after I played the game myself and know some of the better combinations of weapons.
That being said it's a great streamer game with how much second hand dopamine you get from seeing the progression of an overpowered build.
Yeah just generally I wish Asmongold would do more variety. He revisits stuff like Lost Ark which I would say is incredibly niche. Even then a lot people really enjoy seeing him revisit games that have changed a great deal. That's even if they never plan on playing Lost Ark again.
Stuff like his Dark Souls deathless run was so hype too. Either way he hopefully he'll have time to revisit some other games.
I play VS with damage numbers on but I have literally never paid any attention to damage numbers or my score while playing (aside from maybe the end screen breakdown), I am too busy "surviving" and enjoying the game and I'm sure I'm not alone here, right?
You are not. As you said, there's too much going on to be paying much, if any, attention to the numbers. I'm pretty sure a lot of people just remove them because it's one less thing slowing down your game as the enemies really start flooding in. A lot of the other things he said were true though.
You realize you subconsciously pay attention to things right? It’s not all conscious.
@@VainSick True, perhaps I should have said "consciously"
Maybe.
But look at the Eggs meta. Eggs are completely unnecessary in the game, they do not fulfill any purpose except to funnel spare gold into.
And yet...
@@cirkleobserver3217 The numbers aren't there to provide 'meaning'. They're there to provide catharsis. They're there to be a thing that gets bigger and then eventually fill the screen with signs of oooohhhh damaaaggggeee.
The video even points that out.
Asmongold reacts are just... gold... he watches every single second of it, ads or patreon moments, and that is so respectful and nice of him towards the content creator.
He gets paid for doing that
@@stephx9759 Bro, no he does not, in what fukd up weird logic would he be paid for it? by whom? the creator? the sponsor that didnt contract him but the creator whos video he's watching?
Please explain how you are so wrong
@@laszloneumann500 he watches the whole video and gets paid by his subs and donos. Which in turn means he's getting paid to watch it.
@@laszloneumann500 If this channel is generating revenue, then Asmon(or whoever runs this channel) is getting paid by youtube(ad money) for reacting to other people's content. I think this is also the general reason of why react content can be seen as "scummy"
@@konnorspencer902 commenter implied he gets paid specifically for including the creators patreon/sponsor which is factually untrue
Ofc hes getting paid for his content but its up to Asmon's goodwill if he wants to include a minute+ patreon segment at the end and he has no monetary incentive for that in specific
I have never met a person in my life who talked about their score in Mario.
It is more like, "Did you ever reach the sky stage?", "Sure, that's easy.", "Nice", And the conversation process on "where the hidden passage is."
The person playing decides what is fun, the real idiots are the ones who let other people decide what "fun" is for them.
Honestly, it's like scraping paint off a painting to find the beauty molecules.
Exactly, the video really dumbs down what this game is to call it stupid. I mean you could do that with literally anything
damm you guys are snowflakes, he just calls it stupid because the game uses our monkey brain to make it satisfying. He isn't personally calling you or the game stupid you can stop feeling attacked now
@@kalashnikov1343 I never even pay attention to the numbers there.
@@tonycezar1645 You clearly did not watch the entire video. He calls us humans stupid, and he says that the tools used are used for good when it comes to vampire survivors, to enhance the experience. Other games also use this strategy, however they often just want to steal your money, contrary to vampire survivors.
i would argue that this game did so well because we're not stupid,we recognize a fun game as opposed to the AAA non fun crap that's been pumped out for years now.
@@kalashnikov1343 yall completely missed what the video is about, pretty funny
So you just didnt watch the video?
@@laszloneumann500 it's crazy how the point of the video goes over so many peoples heads, they just see the word "stupid" and take it as a personal attack. Just take room temperature IQ combined with a 3 minute attention span, you get some of these guys fr...
@@kalashnikov1343 In the video, he's talking about how the game uses cetrain well known and widely used tricks and exploits biases in our brains to keep the player engaged and playing. That is a fact, he proved it by providing many examples and statistical proof. Most people play the game and don't get tired of it after 5 hours thanks to these tricks. It beats me why so many people go straight for insulting the OP for his opinions and mostly avoid talking about the points made in the video. Also, no, I'm not calling anybody stupid/wrong for disagreeing, I just don't like people being jerks in the comments with no argument to justify why they even disagree.
@@ErykBeyk those tricks only really work because VS is a one-time purchase with no mtx. VS gets a pass because you actually own the dopamine you get, meanwhile there's no justification for spending money on lootboxes or gachas.
Infinite hoard games like vampire survivor are popular... for kind of the same reason as tower defense, roguelikes, idle, mobile, deck building, and instance games are. It's mainly due to the amount of time that can be allocated into them and although some people can get hooked into playing it for hours due to the instant gratifications that they give, the reality is that a single round of play only takes around 30m to an hour to do, which people with busy schedules can spend time on. This is unlike casual indie games that can take around 3-10 hours to beat, or a full on mmo or rpg that can take hundreds of hours. Not everyone has time for it, but people will always have time to play a quick round. I know that i like to do a run of slay the spire or backpack hero at times. 👍
Magical survival was the game that vampire survivor was based off of. I played that game a ton, before vampire survivors came out. Both are fun.
@@JS-oh2dp same game, just named it wrong lol
This guy actually found the longest way to say "Humans think numbers are neat."
I shut off the damage numbers almost as soon as i began vampire survivors because the numbers add too much clutter to an already visually busy graphic style.
The damage numbers going up in VS is satisfying sure, but honestly, it's the nature in which you progressively wipe enemies off the screen that keeps me playing more than the numbers.
He makes that point at 10:11
Same
Sold my neighbors kid to play this. Loved it.
How much did you get for him?
@@moofy69 probably 3 dollars
I loved Paper Mario because you do 2-3 damage with attacks and mobs have 6 health at the start. So in the late game when you reach 70 damage it feels massive.
I agree. That's one example of the low end of numbers feeling more satisfying. I see it in DND compared to other tabletop RPGs all the time. In DND fighting an enemy or boss with over 100 hp is pretty common, and in other games like PBTA an enemy only takes a handful of damage to die. The effort put in to get that result is the same for the most part, but the increments that the damage is doled out is different.
Oh here it is, I literally made the same comment. And DnD too apparently. Yeah see so this argument is just plain wrong.
I actually turned numbers off and still played it until I unlocked everything. It was bittersweet, I have nothing left to do because I could just roll everything on Sigma and nothing is left to achieve.
The Mario example is a terrible one, because when I played Mario as a kid, I didn't even pay attention to those numbers. The score meant literally nothing to me and had no impact on my enjoyment of the game.
Nope, the difficulty of Vampire Survivor scale with your level, not time. Enemy type change with time. The best example you can try to verify that is to go in library with Clerci. Grab the gem on the table, and take TRACER as first skill for your level 2. Then, stuck the tracer by going between the table and the portrait.
Because clerci has +400% size bonus to everything until lvl 10, your tracer will cover more zone than your sprite. It will One Shot EVERY creature that goes at you, including your holy water that are still level 1.
Effectively, this is one of the method to kill death, since death has 1 million hp multiplied by your level. Meaning that if you do it this way, when death appear, it is stucked at 2 millions HP. You then grab the red gem that coalesced all the gems in it, and you instantly level up to 100. Since death is already summoned, it will not gain extra HP from your level up. And by taking all the laurel, duration, attack speed and ice beam upgrade along with firepower, death can be killed, and thus unlocking you a character to play with.
Your example isnt the greatest mostly because it is somewhat dependant on an exploit
It scales with BOTH. enemy types get stronger, and higher in quantity based on time while hp multipliers scale with your level. In normal gameplay on for example the first stage, if you dont have enough power to deal with the "bone zone" wave you get overwhelmed and die. You power curve climbs faster than the enemy power curve from level scaling, and that is used to compensate for enemy base health and quantity scaling.
@@chaon93 Enemy type has their base Hit Points, of course, but if a tier 1 Holy Water still one-shot them at 20minutes when having only 2 level, it still proves my point. Exploit or not. Like Death enemy type, in my example, has 1 million hit points. Each level multiply the hit points. Still, it is easier to kill a creature with 1 million hit points than 100 000 millions.
bro this is so outdated info it pains
@@chaon93 And how using an exploit to prove his point would lessen it? He still proved the point regardless.
4:50 the reason behind Mario's 10-based pontuation scale is actually a not because "humans are stupid", but on contrary. It's because humans are smart.
See, the thing is that they WANTED to implement these numbers rendered in the screen, so they HAD to multiply for 10 to put them ther. Because the sprites grid unit for these numbers are double their width.
I'm not a NES programmer, but for curiosity sometimes I check some contents on it. So I might not be using the correct terms in here.
For what I remember, there is a certain method of working with sprites in NES.
You have a layer specifically to store the sprites, let's call is "spritesheet". It is 256 × 240, and It's divided by square blocks of 8x8 or 16x16 pixels. Mario was programmed with 8x8 pixels block.
The way you program in NES is combining those "pieces" together forming images, which are colorized giving them different fixed "pallettes" of colors.
So when you see goombas in the first and second stages, they are actually the same sprite with just different "hues".
In the case of these numbers that popup into Mario's interface, they need 4 pixels horizontally and 7 pixels vertically each. So these "blocks" are too small to fit in a 8x8 block and are too big just to put a single number. So IF they wanted a 1-based system, they would have to, or:
- double the grid size horizontally, or;
- double the width of the numbers which would lead to a weird looking, or;
- use the same sprites of the numbers at the top, which would be ugly and sometimes also confusing.
Instead of having to deal with this problem, they just putted another 0 there.
If you actually see the sprites of the game on the internet, you will see that these small number are stored as "102040508000".
So what they do is simply combine these "blocks" with each other to render on the screen: "10""00", "40""00".
You COULD produce then under overlaying then, but this to work you would have to change how the processor of the NES was designed... so no deal.
We are also talking about 1985 in here, so it would cost A LOT of money just to NOT put a zero there.
So it has NOTHING to do with "humans being stupid", but with a time when resources, memory and computing were pretty limited.
We live in different times, where those resources are not so limited as before. So the solution is actually genius.. and ABSOLUTE NOTHING to do with psycology, but programming skills.
Maybe some video producers might have some limited time, trying to produce theories under subject they know nothing about.
I love Asmon react vids because he actually genuinely adds tons of commentary and interesting takes.
he's one of the only reactors that spends almost 4x more time discussing the topic then actually watching the video lmao.
Normally I feel he only states the obvious. People often seem insightful when nobody challenges them on the things they say. His comments in this video though I find to be quite good.
hes a professional content stealer what a man
@@someGuy-kl7cb The only problem with this is sometimes he interjects to make a question or say some bullshit, and then the video explains it two seconds later. Like he's got impeccable "ask a question that gets answered as soon as you unpause" timing
@@someGuy-kl7cb Yeah he seemingly had nothing of value to add
@17:29 even without "inifinte Corridor" it got much easiert to kill Death, since you can simply get the Weapon that makes you Immune to damage for 2 seconds, evolve it so it adds "reduce every damage you take to 10" and either add +10 health regen or enough weapon cooldown, so that the 2 seconds invincibility is enough for you to regenerate another stack of Immunity with the weapon (it can hold 3 stacks).
After that, you basically can stand there and wait for death to be killed by any weapon you limit broke till this fight.
My monkey brain says it's fun, so, it's fun, that's it, nothing more, nothing less.
yes. he explained why the monkey brain finds it fun.
When I was getting my BS in Game Design we were taught to not inflate numbers. IIRC the professor explained that inflating your numbers turns your game into a slot machine and draws focus away from the intended core mechanics of your game. As a designer we want players to interact with the designed moment-to-moment gameplay not loot boxes or number roulettes. It also makes high scores more impressive when you don't bloat your numbers. 1,000,000 doesn't seem that large when you are getting 10,000 to 50,000 points at a time, but if you are getting 50, 100, 250 at a time the million seems way more impressive.
Honestly what this game highlights is how important build diversity in games is… having enough builds to play around with and create is allot of content even for an 8bit game
7:42 you could argue that games got more complex with more options to get points and thus higher highscores on average
He is forgetting to add that Machines are not random. It take a number and divides it by the time, then multiplies it by 10 and if it equals 1 or higher then you get item "X". In the case of Boarderlands 3, if your luck was over its max it wrapped the number around by minus the max value and would give you rare items based off of that number (I and several friends of mine killed one of the guardians over a 100 times with a relic that boosted the max rare drop to 1k (we had this equipped to everyone with shared loot on) and we kept on getting gray or green weapons.) Tiny Tina's wonderland probably suffers from the same problem.
@@UltimaKeyMaster the story was awful, but the game play was good.
I never payed slitest attention to damage numbers in VS. When it become possible to turn them of i did just that. It was always music, provided gameplay tricks and crystal clear sence of progression. Thats it.
Being upset about how fun something is, shows how British this man truly is.
Framing it this way let's him convince more people who might've thought VS is stupid. Also it just makes the video more interesting.
6:41 I think it’s more about how the number goes up if goombas were worth ten and coins 100 thus relative values give you a bigger oomph.
Pinball machines are relative to eachorjer so getting a score of 100k on one and million on another might be from the same set of physical actions but the other larger numbers feel better.
It’s the line going up the relative increases in the system as you play that actually matters.
Ultimately I agree with the statement: it's what you learn in Psychology 101. Human beings have seemingly stupid, illogical subconscious biases and reactions and it takes a lot of effort to recognise and even more to counteract them... which is why the vast majority don't try.
You know, I'm actually glad that I played gacha games in the long run because I feel like I've gotten more control of my addictive compulsions. I've been playing them free for about a year or so now.
That level scaling issue is one reason Morrowind is one of my favorite games. Walk into the wrong place at level 1, get knocked helplessly to your knees by a single dagger throw from a level 30 bandit. Conversely, in the endgame, as you're becoming a legend, you actually feel like one.
all the comments misunderstanding the video really speaks to the level of media comprehension the average twitch watcher has
19:20 Fun fact: Actually, games don't handle RNG with Randomness, it's actually called PRNG, Pseudorandom Number Generator. It's impossible to create a Random Number as nothing in our Universe is trully Random, as everything happens for a reason, so we just make numbers that look random (by being unpredictable) to the player but also fair, for example: from numbers 1 to 10 in 100 attempts, PRNG should give you around 10x of every number (10 ones, 10 twos, and so on...) but not always exactly that and also in an unpredictable order, otherwise it would be predictable.
If you are good at logic, you can test that yourself by trying to create a formula which will always result in a Random Number every time.
Spoiler: It's impossible, but you can get pretty interesting results that will fall into the category of Pseudorandomness.
Funny that I find magic survival more fun, turned off dmg numbers in vampires, and found this genre is a return to roots that reignite interests to retro games
Don't know about those numbers thing... never impact me on any game, i even find it annoying at some point. The only good thing about it is that it gives the player an general idea of where we are in term of progression. It helps testing some builds and so on.
He was the guy in school that you asked "Hey, how are you today?" And instead of saying "Good, you?", he'd go on a 1 hour long rant about how the universe is meaningless and life is unfair.
" And instead of saying "Good, you?"" how very american
@@firmak2 I'm not American.
@@AnonningAnon thats a double oof for you then.
“How are you” has to be the worst question possible for an introduction, I’m glad nobody asks it here
@@electricant55 How are you
"There's no real difference in mobs."
100% untrue. Certain mobs can shoot projectiles, have different movement speeds/patterns, have special spawn conditions, some will move through walls, others explode, etc.
I feel that having an amazing ost in a game is greatly underrated in also determining how addictive a game can be
Yeah i still like VS ost and i play it when i'm working
In Resident Evil games it's called DA (Difficulty Adjustment) and it tracks your performance, ammo count, heal pickups ect to dynamically adjust enemy behaviour and damage values. From what i know it's been a thing since Resident Evil 4. Unless you play the hardcore difficulty where your DA is always maxed out therefore makes the game overall more difficult in a casual sense but more predictable in speedruns for example. Of course there is also ways to manipulate your DA if you can keep track of it or use mods that output your current DA.
I love Vampire Survivors. It's the one game I always make sure I have at 100% achievements. If you guys like VS I highly recommend Boneraiser Minions. It's inspired by VS but instead of weapons you are a necromancer that raises an army of demons and skellies to kill the enemies. It is my favorite VS like for sure.
Boneraiser's pretty fun! I need to play it more, but dang, there are so many good roguelites that have come out this past year or two.
halls of torment is the only clone I enjoyed
I used to play Ragnarok Online which was MMORPG. And the numbers were there. I never realized it is part of the appeal. Like, of course, when you have your mage lvl 23 doing like 430 damage with your Fire Bolt and then you deal 1,7k later, it is pretty cool. But the fact that the numbers just fly from the monster like blood actually. I only noticed it with Jupitel Thunder I think where the damage was being dealt more than those 10 blasts from Cold Bolt for example.
My favorite part of vampire survivors is when you fight the vampire. Such a good part that was built up so well
Lmao
My favorite part is when the vampire shows up and says “it’s vamping time”
And than he vamps all over the screen
@@LostHorizons0 truly on of the momments in gaming history
22:24 Civ games are a special case since the difficulty options effects how both you and the AI are playing with, either positively or negatively. If you slide the difficulty down as low as Settler, you will be given higher odds and better selections of locations, resources, etc. in the background, while the AI odds are set to neutral, or having an disadvantage at the start. On the other hand, Deity will revoke the bonuses of the odds and selections in the beginning of the game and hand them over to the AI instead, even though their algorithms will still use the same foundation for it's strategies and responses to you and the environment. Like if an AI is military heavy, they will play with the understanding of whether they have those bonuses or not, but still stick to the same goal. This has varied from game to game, especially in 4 through 6.
Oh yay, Asmon finally stumbled upon Architect of Games! He's got REALLY good quality videos, well researched, well articulated, well structured. Sometimes you might disagree with some points but if someone's 95%+ on the mark, then I'm happy to hear their opinion even if it differs from mine, since there's a chance that I'm also just looking at a particular topic with some of my own tunnel vision :D
I'm only 6 mins in, but so far I agree with him. Humans prefer bigger numbers, regardless of context.
Famously, customers preferred a 1/4 over a 1/3 because "it's bigger". But anyone knows that .25 isn't bigger than .33. They decided 1/4 was bigger than 1/3 because 4 is bigger than 3. There was no brain power actually put toward the decision.
Similarly, when Gaia Online introduced Platinum as a replacement for Gold, many users were mad and didn't want to change over -- they even still insist that their gold is worth more than platinum even though the platinum is just the gold minus some zeroes. It was made to hide/fight inflation by rebalancing money and prices. But there are people who swear by the old gold system being better solely because it had extra zeroes at the end. These people are literally arguing IN FAVOR OF inflation because "big number feels better".
Architect of Games makes such good videos, glad Asmon started reacting to those. Hoping to see more of this
I played Magic Survival(MS) before I played Vampire Survivors(VS), and I fell in love with the gameplay loop of MS with the various upgrades. They updated MS to be more like VS, and now I really dislike MS and see no real reason to play it over VS. They used to have it where every 3 levels you could choose a trait to add to your skills, and now it's like VS where there is a stat item that pairs with a skill to evolve it.
This gave me so much playtime and enjoyment completing its challenges for the 100%
When the DLC came out I was more than happy to throw some money over for it
It wasn’t breaking the bank, and I’ve got other games that never gave me as much value for money 💰
I love that the mobile version is free (with ads for perks, apparently). Don't want ads? Spend $1.99 or equivalent on a DLC and you can turn off those ads forever.
Divide all the dmg in wow by 100 and also the HP of everything, will be the same, but lower number show "low dps" even if it still the same
I remember a game exactly like this long ago, except it was a dude shooting aliens or zombies or some shit, getting power ups as you killed stuff. Was super fun!
You probably talking about zombie shooter or alien shootet
I think you're talking about crimsonland. It's still a great game
@@SirBladewind YES! Crimsonland! Fuck yes! Thanks buddy that game was dope
The only thing I can think of is in the DLC for the first dark souls game when you get to Chasm of the abyss and killing 1 humanity gives you only 20 souls when at that point in your gameplay you would need on average 40,000 souls just to level up again.
Not to mention they have a lot of HP and there are dozens of them.
By this logic any sport would also be boring. "Football/Soccer, a sport where two teams run around chasing a ball and try to shoot it into the opposing team's goal. That's it."
Nuclear radiation: shiny hot no-no rocks, that's it
i believe the appeal of sports is the skill and athleticism involved, people like watching atheletes do things the normal human cant
@@Copperscaled Yeah I agree, playing them is also fun, which is why I don't think something can be reduced to that level of logic
So youre just gonna not watch the video and form your opinion on it? lmao
@@g76agi My comment was based on the opinion the dude gave in the first minute of the video, which was the entire premise he was building his argument from. I did watch the vid after though and still disagree
The timer in Sonic doesn’t match seconds exactly because the game is made in Japan and they use metric time.
vampire survivors gets hella boring after you get everything, just end up being you standing still while the bible kills everything
by that time I have already gotten $4 worth of enjoyment
@@ObsidianHawk nah i bought all the dlc and got max curse and i still just stand there with bible killing everything, idk what you mean
In Eve Online, the most basic descriptor of currency is a million ISK; a 'mill'.
A few mill will let you fit out a T1 frigate. Building a Titan costs 160 BILLION and takes several months.
I don't care if someone things Vampire Survivors is considered a bad game or good game by others. I picked it up because it not only looked fun, but was fun. Might have lots of good points and have a very convincing argument, but it won't change my mind after the fact.
he didnt try to, he just explained why it is fun.
@@firmak2 the moment you start trying to break down rationally an irrational idea like “fun”, all it does is take away the fun. I guess knowing why I am being fooled into a false perception of having fun is simply by the fact I have been entirely fooled by big numbers.
So no, I still disagree.
@@kefkamadman "idea like “fun”, all it does is take away the fun" i disagree but agree to disagree.
@@kalashnikov1343 you missed one crucial point in this video, numbers play a part in it, they arent everything .
you didnt understand the video
XCom 2 had all of its "To hit" values based off of where you and the Enemy were standing. (Which is why you could be standing next to a alien and completely miss, if you don't believe, download the game and test it yourself with save scumming.)
Vampire survivors is a complete contrast to what game are today and a perfect representation of the core reason why we play games in the first place.
Vampire survivors is fun, that's all it needs to be.
But vampire survivors is games today
@@musicarain4702 it's an Indy game that has recycled parts of older games.
It's a game that was made in recent times but shares absolutely nothing with the modern concepts of games design.
regarding the probability, its the reacon why Spotify shuffle isnt actually random because if it was random it would play the same song several times in a row or it would play the songs in order they were before shuffeling sometimes. they are altering it so it "feels" more random for human brain
The game is a good time killer, glad I found it for mobile.
the mobile port is so good, a complete godsend
5:30 thats why everything at the store is 4.99 or 99.99, because our brains perceive it was a smaller number than what it actually is. 1 cent goes a long way.
This game is so damn addictive ❤❤
Asmon: You can't imagine a million.
Han Solo: I don't know, I can imagine quite a bit.
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I don't know why it is like that, but I for one prefer shooters, because there are no numbers or things that get bigger in general. It's just skill vs skill. The thrill of dominating another player because you are better is what keeps me coming back. I don't need numbers, equipment or anything else. In fact, I always avoided playing shooters that had visible numbers when damage is dealt. Same goes for singleplayer games though. I am basically unable to find joy in any game I play alone.
An important distinction to make is higher numbers are only good when they are compared to smaller ones. You can't just start out with a million damage or it means nothing
The guy is right. It's all about numbers. The score, the damage numbers, these are the things that keep people playing such games and even others. This is what makes them so addictive. You start the game with some pathetic damage numbers 100 or 200. And after 20 minutes these numbers reach thousands. You see the progress, you became stronger, and you know that there is still the way to grow even stronger. In some classic arpg like PoE or Diablo you need to spend couple of days or even weeks to see the proggression, here it takes only 10-15 minutes. I spent couple of thousands hours playing Warframe just to try the guns and see how much damage i can get out of them.
There is a pretty good reason game numbers started out small and went up over time. They literally couldn't calculate those high numbers at first.
"Impossible to visualize a million"
*Visualizes a single family home in Toronto*
done
Also when I complete a clicker game to its final conclusion the end payoff is self-hatred and I ask myself why I did this mindless thing, rather than completing something relevant to humans like Elden Ring.
But I did not even care about damage numbers in Vampire Survivors, nor paid attention to them. Explain that please...
0.1 makes sense for multiplier bonuses, but a) these are mostly hidden b) even then, multiplier bonuses are often intuitively underrated ("it's just 5%").
as far as monster hunter goes, the game is fight monsters so you can take on the tougher ones. The loop doesn't change. If you lose patience you forget the game loop, which is fight monsters, get loot, upgrade, repeat. Also get good, which is why I play lance classes and just do damage when I can and draw focus the best I can.
never understood why so many people are against devs using premade assets, theyre created and sold by other people literally so they can use them in indie games. People who scream "stolen asset flip" are just idiots
"Nobody can really visualize a million"
Try having to place that many blocks by hand in Minecraft and you'll DEFINITELY visualize them
In sports, a score is never just 1 point if it is football, basketball and several others.
I don't know if I care about high numbers as much as how fast things die and how effective my upgrade choices/luck of the draw are.
Dude designed the UX for slot machines. Its the simplicity and the cheap dopamine that makes it so engaging
The thing with this game and what makes it so fun is the value you get for $10. That gets you the base game and both DLCs and dozens of hours of fun and infinitely replayable content.
That guy made a good point about numbers,at least for me: "Big number made bain happy".The dopamine grip of leading a fucking 300M crit damage in Boderlands 2 is pure satisfaction. GOD DAM AND IN DISGAEA,HAVING 10B HP BAR THAT GOES TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE SCREAM IS JUST GOOD
As he was explaining his Mario Theory, that’s when I realize I’ve never once looked at any numbers in Mario besides world numbers, and that’s only to remember when water world starts because water world is dogwater.
Numbers were actually nonexistent in my perceived value of playing Mario.
The strongest memory I have of Mario is trying to find hidden levels. And even then, the coins were a byproduct. Finding the “secret” stage, that was the actual goal.
I don’t know anyone that played Mario for score bragging rights or coins or anything.
Only number based value worth mentioning, would be speedrunning.
There is a clear and significant difference between products that use psychological bias to heighten and deepen ones enjoyment of the bought product, and products that use psychological bias to get consumers to buy more products.
The only time I disagree is that the timer in VS is no different than swapping out models in Skyrim.
You can easily gauge that you're doing more simply because the enemies LOOK harder to fight.
The timer is just a number in VS. The real reason you feel like you're doing more is because you're being swarmed more later in the game.
3:15 same thing for Classic WoW with numbers. getting more spell power / attack power and actually feeling your damage increase is just a good feeling.
when that Satisfactory music kicked in at 12 minutes I instantly recognized it.
I remember Maxor saying as Buff bazos, "Bullsh*t! Gambling is a part of who we are!" 18:34
By the time v1 of VS came out the 5-win chest definitely doesn't come up by force, it took me three or four fully won games to see one.
There is a logical extreme to this belief. If you've ever played a disgaea game, you know just how ridiculous the numbers get. D6 had damage points in the septillions once you got to the highest power levels.
Edit: wow i made this comment right before the mention of Disgaea. Guess the video OP knew just what he was talking about.
I mainly play turn based games and if they don’t show the enemy’s health bar and my dmg points then I wouldn’t normally get far in the game. There is indeed some frustration in the unknown. So if there are numbers visible and comprehensible then it does give a certain satisfaction
Then why do I pog every time I see 12 damage in Paper Mario
2:22 Magic survival was out before vampire from what I've seen
You scored 4.3E7 congrats
That number is too big to feel good about.
You know what I remember about xcom? Missing three 99% point blank shotgun shots in a row, causing me to lose two people. The 4th time in a row that happened, I just quit. Because no amount of randomness should allow me to miss 12 99% shots in a row ending my game.
That's broken fake numbers.