First job after military service was at a prop shop. They put me in the refurbish section grinding, sanding and bending. I knew after two weeks I was in over my skill set. Much respect for these guys, the job is artwork and nothing less than that. My apologies to whomever owned the prop I turned into a bent up butter knife.
I met a similar fate at a different location. 5 weeks of learning but decided mechanics was more my thing. Still good to be ubertrained on prop inspection.
Sedona ATX I flew for several years on the US Navy P-3 A,B & C model aircraft and burned some prop boots & spinners in deicing conditions and worked R&D as an Mechanical Engineer and learned prop & engine balancing from the Hamilton Standard factory school. Mainly dynamic balancing of prop on engine setups some with shafts usually using accelerometers on mounted units. No overhaul experience on props.
Rotich the Legend - call them and make arrangements to purchase one and have it shipped DHL or FedEx. Or contact a local maintenance repair facility for your type aircraft.
My first IP warned me against getting near a propeller. I've heeded his advice for 40 years and it boggles my mind when I see anyone wrapping their arms around a propeller or standing near the arc when it's running. God bless you, I've spun many a prop and never gotten hurt.
This was very informative. Recently worked with sensenich on an overhaul and they are a great group of folks. One of their guys was explaining to me all the different tolerances they measure and look for. There is a lot more than you’d think at first glance.
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing. Always great to see how things are done or how they are made. I forgot that they are located in Florida. That is awesome!
GREAT video! What amazing craftsmen there! I'm still a rookie to the world of aviation. I'm impressed with the engineering that goes into making propellers. Not simple by any stretch! Only props I've dealt with hands-on are of the marine variety. Amazing how advanced modern aircraft propellers are! I think I need some of that paint for my truck! No more chips or rust! 😂
Great video. Fascinating stuff Just this one comment for your safety in the future. Its a good idea to treat all prop installed on working airplanes as hot and wanting to hit you repeatedly without repent. Hope to learn more from you great work All the best neal
Memories. I worked in a prop shop / repair facility for three years evenings to pay my way through school. Came home every night to shower the aluminum dust out of every conceivable part of my body. Ended up with an A&P ticket that I never started out to get. In that shop, a big plus was that if you were the mechanic on a job, you were required to fly in the repaired aircraft on the first test flight after the repair. Ended up with dual time In quite a variety of aircraft. I didn’t see the large torque cheater used to remove & torque blades into the hub. I forget now which manufacturer that was. It seems like other hub designs the blades came out by removing retaining rings inside the hub. The cheater tube for torquing & removing the blades was at least 15 feet long.
@@caridabaptiste9878 A&P license. I was going to university full time for mechanical engineering degree but was broke so was working as a mechanic to pay for school. I didn’t go to school for A&P license. I had the necessary experience and took the test to obtain the license.
My prop was overhauled at it's 10 year mark 3 years ago. Now the shop says it's leaking grease and needs to go back to the prop guys. They wanna charge me $2,000 to repair their overhaul 3 years later. I said 'yes; - Thoughts on some level of warranty?? Probably 150 hours on the prop since overhaul and always hangered. Never fly in the rain/etc. Didn't leak for the first 10 years. Sounds like a bad seal installed on the overhaul perhaps.
At an airline where I worked in engineering, my colleague found that it was occasionally cheaper to replace simple tools like Verniers than to get them calibrated (wasn't done in-house). Maybe these guys just replace the whole shop-full of tools at the required interval. But I'm just speculating, of course.
I understand where you are coming from, it looked pretty aggressive, but removing the anti-ice boot from some props can be very difficult. The "tape" he was removing is a painted on rubber dressing used to seal the edges after gluing the rubber boot on. Any small nick made from the scraper would be dressed out during blade refinishing and not be a problem.
3:49 Dude, scrape and pliers? I'd start with some slim tool made out of plastics, and glue solvent, and from the above? 5:17 That workbench badly needs to be redesigned and rebuilt. The push caliper needs modernizing, a computer controlled remotely recording system. Saves time. And when was it even calibrated last? 10:11 OK, everyone's happy with working right to next high-pressure hydraulic cylinders bending major metal, and the valve can't be remotely operated? Nor the instrument remotely read? 10:36 Face mask? 12:28 Building a special tool (in-house) instead of that ever slipping flat-blade screw driver? The dude could be finished in half the time with less potential damage.
One should not write on an aluminum part, particularly a propeller, with pencil lead. The material in the pencil lead will lead to corrosion in the aluminum.
Owen Major Here is an FAA certified repair station worker, using a graphite pencil on a highly stressed Aluminum propeller. Those of us that have bothered to read the FAA Publications such as AC 43.13-1B (acceptable methods of aircraft maintenance) and AC43-4B (corrosion control), know that Graphite (from a pencil) acts a cathode and serves to accelerate inter-grannular corrosion in aluminum alloys. It is possible that this repair station’s overhaul manuals allow the use of graphite pencils on aluminum propellers, but it seems unlikely given the decades of engineering studies on the subject that clearly demonstrate the detrimental effects of graphite on Aluminum alloys. The simple solution would be to just use two different colored sharpies. One black for the blade station and a blue one for marking pitch angles. This is hardly a situation of “posing no danger”. I am surprised that this was published, since it will most likely bring FAA scrutiny on this repair station’s procedures.
@@Stepclimb And if spent less time with your nose in regulations and more time in the real world you would know that is concerned with the use of graphite lubricants, not a couple pencil marks. There is a bit of a difference between the constant use of graphite to lubricate your moving parts, especially when water can interact with the graphite, and less than a gram of graphite in a dry environment that will be quickly wiped away.
Owen Major Your response is typical of one who does not have data and facts to back their allegations, but instead resort to insults. I do live in the real world and have been around long enough to know that most procedures are “written in blood”. Any engineering handbook on the subject of corrosion will show that graphite is highly passive (cathodic) and Aluminum is highly active (anodic). So you are suggesting that purposely creating a mark (a stress riser) on a highly stressed Aluminum propeller with a substance that is well known to accelerate corrosion is “no big deal” ? It’s not just graphite as lubricant that is not permitted, but SPECIFICALLY PENCIL MARKS. Reference AC 43.13-1B, chapter 6-2 (a) 11 and 6-91 (c). The last reference reads “DO NOT MARK on any metal surface with a graphite pencil or any type of sharp, pointed instrument.” Your point on this matter is indefensible for several reasons that I have illustrated. It makes no sense using a pencil to mark a propeller when a sharpie would do the job better and not invite scrutiny as demonstrated by this video and the following comments.
John H - you put a balancing instrument on the engine. Accelerometer that indicates a “G” force indicating that a blade is pulling to one side. It’s a little more than this but without getting to deep that’s how you can balance large props on ships, wind turbine props, shafts and aircraft props. I have performed this on aircraft and ship’s.
John H - it is actually called a static balance but you don’t really need to perform a dynamic balance on the aircraft unless the manufacture requires it or if you experience a vibration on the aircraft. You will do the same thing by adding or removing weight to the identified location. But if you want to achieve the most accurate balance alignment coupled with the engine then you perform the dynamic balance usually with variable pitch props mostly.
10:46 Is it not a hazard to have people working with vats of cadmium without a lot more protection than that? I know it's not elemental cadmium, but a lot of the compounds are super bad news too...
@@RickAtlantaPilot Right you are: I looked again and it seems pretty clear that the vat is Alodine (pretty toxic on its own, but I guess they're are doing whatever they're supposed to be doing).
Its measured by hand?! Invest in some laser measurement tools...much better accuracy Less likelyhood for human error For the amount of money it costs to send parts out for overhaul I'd have expected some technology beyond a caliper and a sheet of paper
@@John-zv1hy I'm a city boy...for expecting a high degree of accuracy.. I wonder what "high quality" work you churn out with that attitude When these props are made, they use laser scanning tools...when manufacturers are building the aircraft itself, they're using laser measurement.. I guess it's a good thing "city boys" are in charge, I'd hate to be flying in an aircraft who's manufacturing motto is "good enough"
You are going to need a template for that blade to get the proper blade angle at the designated station of the blade. Yes a digital angle gauge could help but I’m not sure which one stays calibrated longer or drifts more!
I'm surprised that measurements are still hand recorded on paper rather than at least data entered into a station iPad. Ideally laser/digital recorders would Bluetooth measurements to the iPad. This is an expensive prop shop that could afford modern data equipment.
bestamerica - not all aircraft spin opposite. It depends on torque applied. The V-22 has the most torque and uses this counter reaction because it hovers. Sorry.
Adding to John’s comment, yes, spinning opposite is best for adverse yaw etc, but most twin piston engine aircraft spin the prop in the same direction. This means that you don’t have to have right engines & left engines you just have engines, which is less costly. I’m not aware of counter-rotating turbine twins but they probably exist. Same principle applies; it requires left engines & right engines which adds to costs.
@@tedspradley hi T S... ' left spin motor and right spin motor musts be same currencys... left spin is a cheaper = right spin is a uncheaper are not fair... must be equal same currency
Using a pencil on aluminum? Yikes! I thought that was a big no-no! Obviously these guys are professionals, but that seems to be careless and unnecessary..
I was going to make that comment! I'm no engineer but I've read enough manuals about corrosion to know you never use a graphite pencil on aircraft parts!
Thomas Altruda - it’s lead pencils that shouldn’t be used on aluminum. They was off the props afterwards. I think the missed a step after bending the prop. There should be a dye-penn inspection after the bending to see if this action created and stress cracks in the blades??
@@MrWATCHthisWAY I was interchanging lean and graphite pencil, as "lead" pencils are usually graphite. Ill try to dig out the Tec paper, it had a nice pic of a pencil circle drawn on a piece of an F18 wing, stress corrosion had started from the pencil mark. This lead (no pun!) to a failure.
Also which came first. The crack or the pencil mark. Why draw a circle on a wing unless it was to identify a stress crack. Also was this a leading edge because aren’t military aircraft shot with poly paint? Mine was except for leading edges for deicing strips?
this amateur has difficulty explaining the process and leaves out information. instead he is like "we process here with a process and it works by processing."
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First job after military service was at a prop shop. They put me in the refurbish section grinding, sanding and bending. I knew after two weeks I was in over my skill set. Much respect for these guys, the job is artwork and nothing less than that. My apologies to whomever owned the prop I turned into a bent up butter knife.
Quick Wahay - it’s a real man or woman who knows their own limitation and willing to admit it! Great post! Not that job but the same result.
I met a similar fate at a different location. 5 weeks of learning but decided mechanics was more my thing. Still good to be ubertrained on prop inspection.
Sedona ATX I flew for several years on the US Navy P-3 A,B & C model aircraft and burned some prop boots & spinners in deicing conditions and worked R&D as an Mechanical Engineer and learned prop & engine balancing from the Hamilton Standard factory school. Mainly dynamic balancing of prop on engine setups some with shafts usually using accelerometers on mounted units. No overhaul experience on props.
What if i need to by the propeller and I'm in Kenya how can i get it ?.
Rotich the Legend - call them and make arrangements to purchase one and have it shipped DHL or FedEx. Or contact a local maintenance repair facility for your type aircraft.
Big props for the recommend 😁
My first IP warned me against getting near a propeller. I've heeded his advice for 40 years and it boggles my mind when I see anyone wrapping their arms around a propeller or standing near the arc when it's running. God bless you, I've spun many a prop and never gotten hurt.
This was very informative. Recently worked with sensenich on an overhaul and they are a great group of folks. One of their guys was explaining to me all the different tolerances they measure and look for. There is a lot more than you’d think at first glance.
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing. Always great to see how things are done or how they are made. I forgot that they are located in Florida. That is awesome!
A pilot has to have such trust in this shop. Good work guys.
2:29 AY YO! DAS MY DAD YALL!!
Well presented.....without doubt one of the most important parts of any walk around.
Gotta give these guys "props" for the work they do! (I'll leave now...)
Great closeups of the business end of a constant-speed propeller hub!
Wow, that's amazing and very interesting to watch. Thank you!
Very helpful in understanding more about this side of maintaining
GREAT video! What amazing craftsmen there! I'm still a rookie to the world of aviation. I'm impressed with the engineering that goes into making propellers. Not simple by any stretch! Only props I've dealt with hands-on are of the marine variety. Amazing how advanced modern aircraft propellers are!
I think I need some of that paint for my truck! No more chips or rust! 😂
Great video. Fascinating stuff
Just this one comment for your safety in the future. Its a good idea to treat all prop installed on working airplanes as hot and wanting to hit you repeatedly without repent.
Hope to learn more from you great work
All the best neal
Memories. I worked in a prop shop / repair facility for three years evenings to pay my way through school. Came home every night to shower the aluminum dust out of every conceivable part of my body. Ended up with an A&P ticket that I never started out to get. In that shop, a big plus was that if you were the mechanic on a job, you were required to fly in the repaired aircraft on the first test flight after the repair. Ended up with dual time In quite a variety of aircraft.
I didn’t see the large torque cheater used to remove & torque blades into the hub. I forget now which manufacturer that was. It seems like other hub designs the blades came out by removing retaining rings inside the hub. The cheater tube for torquing & removing the blades was at least 15 feet long.
What do you mean by A&P ticket where they gonna pay your schooling fees?.
@@caridabaptiste9878 A&P license. I was going to university full time for mechanical engineering degree but was broke so was working as a mechanic to pay for school. I didn’t go to school for A&P license. I had the necessary experience and took the test to obtain the license.
Very informative. Thank you. I first read the article in Aviation Consumer where they directed me to the facebook page.... and then the videos.
thank you for choosing the skylark type certificate
That’s hilarious, I own a 175 and noticed that instantly
Very interesting, Thank you.
Thanks for the video. My mechanic mentioned at last annual that this was likely in my future
Your mechanic must be clairvoyant !
Thanks. That was really helpful and interesting!
the dude removing the deice pad by stabbing it with a metal scrapper gave me anxiety o_O
Likewise. I would have opted to not put that in there, but the reality is, that kid would not be around long
Tool abuse and working hard not smart.
Love these videos
Great vid, more like this please!
Awesome!! They are just up the road from me. 😁👍🏼
I love that a Sensenich employee is wearing a McCauley hat 😎
wow. who knew. flying is scary! so many things to go wrong!
Living is scary.
I’m gonna assume you meant that sarcasticly
please make a video on how propeller produce thrust.
My prop was overhauled at it's 10 year mark 3 years ago. Now the shop says it's leaking grease and needs to go back to the prop guys. They wanna charge me $2,000 to repair their overhaul 3 years later. I said 'yes; - Thoughts on some level of warranty?? Probably 150 hours on the prop since overhaul and always hangered. Never fly in the rain/etc. Didn't leak for the first 10 years. Sounds like a bad seal installed on the overhaul perhaps.
I wonder if my Cessna 172 can be fitted with a four-blade propeller with wildly-curved trendy leading edges. 🧐
the only thing I could be qualified for is to sweep the damn floor when the experts got done!!!!!!!
At First Flight Propeller LLC we have lower prices with great quality work!
2-layer helicopter propeller, each 5 meters in length Can you do it? How much does it cost?
I was looking for calibration stickers on the measurement tools - none observed
john wrycza also a pencil on aluminum 😯
At an airline where I worked in engineering, my colleague found that it was occasionally cheaper to replace simple tools like Verniers than to get them calibrated (wasn't done in-house). Maybe these guys just replace the whole shop-full of tools at the required interval. But I'm just speculating, of course.
If i close my eyes, he’s basically a younger Dave.
Cadence. Tone. Everything.
i know. everytime i hear him i try to work out why they speak the same. do they come form the same town? are they brothers? i cant figure it out
renting aint so bad
At 6:20 , What is the machine being used for “blade conformity”?
At 3:55 it seemed like the guy removing excess tape was doing more harm than good.
And your credentials for making that statement are?
@@TheOwenMajor 14 years as a cabinet maker using hand tools. The angle and stabbing motion he was using the scraper would tend to gouge.
Yes he seem like he was struggling with his tools.
And the fact he was using a metal 5-in one tool for painting didn’t help either!!! Ops!!
I understand where you are coming from, it looked pretty aggressive, but removing the anti-ice boot from some props can be very difficult. The "tape" he was removing is a painted on rubber dressing used to seal the edges after gluing the rubber boot on. Any small nick made from the scraper would be dressed out during blade refinishing and not be a problem.
"Prop bending" haha
That guy was a natural with a screwdriver at 12.25. I don't think they normally wear gloves.
Lol. Confidence is high. Or someone is.
@@rocktakesover The man holding the screwdriver
@@planespeaking can you imagine having to clean the floor after the pee test. Full disclosure, I don't work in health care.
Can you do please flight on Orka EM11 I bet all of your viewers will be shock that something like that exist
4 longest propellers, how much is the price?
and 6 longest propellers, how much is the price?
Sir what to do for airbus job
3:49 Dude, scrape and pliers? I'd start with some slim tool made out of plastics, and glue solvent, and from the above?
5:17 That workbench badly needs to be redesigned and rebuilt. The push caliper needs modernizing, a computer controlled remotely recording system. Saves time. And when was it even calibrated last?
10:11 OK, everyone's happy with working right to next high-pressure hydraulic cylinders bending major metal, and the valve can't be remotely operated? Nor the instrument remotely read?
10:36 Face mask?
12:28 Building a special tool (in-house) instead of that ever slipping flat-blade screw driver? The dude could be finished in half the time with less potential damage.
The inspector 😂
S&S turbines... S&S Props :D
One should not write on an aluminum part, particularly a propeller, with pencil lead. The material in the pencil lead will lead to corrosion in the aluminum.
Such a small amount of graphite, especially when it will be removed, poses no danger.
People need to learn to stop worrying about every little thing.
Graphite is not lead. They no longer make lead pencils.
Owen Major
Here is an FAA certified repair station worker, using a graphite pencil on a highly stressed Aluminum propeller.
Those of us that have bothered to read the FAA Publications such as AC 43.13-1B (acceptable methods of aircraft maintenance) and AC43-4B (corrosion control), know that Graphite (from a pencil) acts a cathode and serves to accelerate inter-grannular corrosion in aluminum alloys.
It is possible that this repair station’s overhaul manuals allow the use of graphite pencils on aluminum propellers, but it seems unlikely given the decades of engineering studies on the subject that clearly demonstrate the detrimental effects of graphite on Aluminum alloys.
The simple solution would be to just use two different colored sharpies. One black for the blade station and a blue one for marking pitch angles.
This is hardly a situation of “posing no danger”. I am surprised that this was published, since it will most likely bring FAA scrutiny on this repair station’s procedures.
@@Stepclimb And if spent less time with your nose in regulations and more time in the real world you would know that is concerned with the use of graphite lubricants, not a couple pencil marks.
There is a bit of a difference between the constant use of graphite to lubricate your moving parts, especially when water can interact with the graphite, and less than a gram of graphite in a dry environment that will be quickly wiped away.
Owen Major
Your response is typical of one who does not have data and facts to back their allegations, but instead resort to insults.
I do live in the real world and have been around long enough to know that most procedures are “written in blood”.
Any engineering handbook on the subject of corrosion will show that graphite is highly passive (cathodic) and Aluminum is highly active (anodic). So you are suggesting that purposely creating a mark (a stress riser) on a highly stressed Aluminum propeller with a substance that is well known to accelerate corrosion is “no big deal” ?
It’s not just graphite as lubricant that is not permitted, but SPECIFICALLY PENCIL MARKS.
Reference AC 43.13-1B, chapter 6-2 (a) 11 and 6-91 (c).
The last reference reads “DO NOT MARK on any metal surface with a graphite pencil or any type of sharp, pointed instrument.”
Your point on this matter is indefensible for several reasons that I have illustrated.
It makes no sense using a pencil to mark a propeller when a sharpie would do the job better and not invite scrutiny as demonstrated by this video and the following comments.
Pencil? That's a bad idea...
Dam
in Indonesia we call it baling baling
how is it possible to balance the prop to the engine?
John H - you put a balancing instrument on the engine. Accelerometer that indicates a “G” force indicating that a blade is pulling to one side. It’s a little more than this but without getting to deep that’s how you can balance large props on ships, wind turbine props, shafts and aircraft props. I have performed this on aircraft and ship’s.
@@MrWATCHthisWAY the what do you do to the prop, if the prop has been neutral balanced at the shop
John H - it is actually called a static balance but you don’t really need to perform a dynamic balance on the aircraft unless the manufacture requires it or if you experience a vibration on the aircraft. You will do the same thing by adding or removing weight to the identified location. But if you want to achieve the most accurate balance alignment coupled with the engine then you perform the dynamic balance usually with variable pitch props mostly.
10:46 Is it not a hazard to have people working with vats of cadmium without a lot more protection than that? I know it's not elemental cadmium, but a lot of the compounds are super bad news too...
@Ciaran Meh - I think he said they send the pieces out for Cad plating - so I'm thinking the vats had either alodine or die penetrant?
@@RickAtlantaPilot Right you are: I looked again and it seems pretty clear that the vat is Alodine (pretty toxic on its own, but I guess they're are doing whatever they're supposed to be doing).
Its measured by hand?!
Invest in some laser measurement tools...much better accuracy
Less likelyhood for human error
For the amount of money it costs to send parts out for overhaul I'd have expected some technology beyond a caliper and a sheet of paper
I wasn't blown away by their "skills"
@@John-zv1hy I'm a city boy...for expecting a high degree of accuracy..
I wonder what "high quality" work you churn out with that attitude
When these props are made, they use laser scanning tools...when manufacturers are building the aircraft itself, they're using laser measurement..
I guess it's a good thing "city boys" are in charge, I'd hate to be flying in an aircraft who's manufacturing motto is "good enough"
You are going to need a template for that blade to get the proper blade angle at the designated station of the blade. Yes a digital angle gauge could help but I’m not sure which one stays calibrated longer or drifts more!
@@daveshaw9344 I belive the caliper he was useing was Digital!
I'm surprised that measurements are still hand recorded on paper rather than at least data entered into a station iPad. Ideally laser/digital recorders would Bluetooth measurements to the iPad. This is an expensive prop shop that could afford modern data equipment.
I bet this place reaks of testosterone!
'
airplane with one motor propeller is a spin...
two motors propellers musts be both opposite spins same as V-22 osprey
bestamerica - not all aircraft spin opposite. It depends on torque applied. The V-22 has the most torque and uses this counter reaction because it hovers. Sorry.
Adding to John’s comment, yes, spinning opposite is best for adverse yaw etc, but most twin piston engine aircraft spin the prop in the same direction. This means that you don’t have to have right engines & left engines you just have engines, which is less costly. I’m not aware of counter-rotating turbine twins but they probably exist. Same principle applies; it requires left engines & right engines which adds to costs.
@@tedspradley
hi T S...
'
left spin motor and right spin motor musts be same currencys...
left spin is a cheaper = right spin is a uncheaper are not fair...
must be equal same currency
@@MrWATCHthisWAY
hi J P L...
'
thank explain about airplane motor with propeller
Using a pencil on aluminum? Yikes! I thought that was a big no-no! Obviously these guys are professionals, but that seems to be careless and unnecessary..
I was going to make that comment! I'm no engineer but I've read enough manuals about corrosion to know you never use a graphite pencil on aircraft parts!
Thomas Altruda - it’s lead pencils that shouldn’t be used on aluminum. They was off the props afterwards. I think the missed a step after bending the prop. There should be a dye-penn inspection after the bending to see if this action created and stress cracks in the blades??
@@MrWATCHthisWAY I was interchanging lean and graphite pencil, as "lead" pencils are usually graphite. Ill try to dig out the Tec paper, it had a nice pic of a pencil circle drawn on a piece of an F18 wing, stress corrosion had started from the pencil mark. This lead (no pun!) to a failure.
Mark Davis - oh come on, that was funny! Pun intended!! Take credit.
Also which came first. The crack or the pencil mark. Why draw a circle on a wing unless it was to identify a stress crack. Also was this a leading edge because aren’t military aircraft shot with poly paint? Mine was except for leading edges for deicing strips?
this amateur has difficulty explaining the process and leaves out information. instead he is like "we process here with a process and it works by processing."
VERY interesting. Thanks.