Why Do Atheists Bother with AA?
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
- In this episode, John Huey returns to ask why atheists and agnostics bother with AA. Is it a waste of time for them to try and find a place in an organization with deep religious roots?
** Questions for our discussion **
* Should atheists talk to or engage with traditional AA people at all?
* What good does it do for atheists to be involved with AA?
* Shouldn't atheists start their own organization separate from AA?
* Why not participate in SMART or other secular options?
* Does AA, even secular AA meetings, drive atheists and agnostics away?
* Is it possible that modifying and adapting the 12 Steps only causes confusion and stress rather than helping?
* What use is AA World Services, the General Service Office, or the General Service Conference of AA to atheists and agnostics?
** About John Huey **
John Huey’s student work of the ’60s-’70s was influenced by teachers in Vermont such as John Irving at Windham College and William Meredith at Bread Loaf. After many years he returned to writing poetry in 2011. He has been widely anthologized and published since then. His first full-length book, ‘The Moscow Poetry File’, was published by Finishing Line Press in November 2017.
Full information on his creative work, as well as his many Secular Recovery talks and writings, can be found at john-huey.com.
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Agnostic here, who doesn't bash on religion ... i just want the same respect from religious members.I always sense some judgmentalism and "better-than-you-isms" at meetings. Meh, fuck em. The overall fellowship still works for me.
I'm agnostic and still go to regular AA meetings. Why? Fellowship, understanding, some good life lessons, helping newcomers (especially if they want sobriety but are struggling with the program as written like I did), a place to share hardships and victories. Basically, community, as imperfect as that community is. I just make sure I truly, deeply, sincerely "take what you want and leave the rest."
I’m an atheist in AA for 15 mos and all the god shit is getting on my nerves. Even the secular group gets believers coming in - I don’t get that.
I’ve been sober 14+ years. A huge part of my recovery is the fellowship. I’m around people who have gone through similar experiences. I’ve made great friends there.
There actually is AA literature that shares how atheists and agnostics got and stayed sober.
Cognitive Behavioral Therapy would be more appropriate for freethinkers, skeptics, and such.
Wow, you are right on it. Thanks for visiting our channel.
@@BeyondBeliefSobriety Thank you for addressing this. Personally I struggled with the defining a higher power, as well as surrendering to one. SMART recovery interprets a stoic approach.
I continue to use AA because the fellowship just seems to be unique to that program and the fact there is one backed in pretty much anywhere in the world I go makes it something I keep coming back to. I mean there are other reasons but that one seems to be the biggest.
In Poland there is almost none secular meetings, so traditional are only way for me atm. It's working for me as I stopped being against the idea of higher power. I'm just doing everything what I can to stay sober.
higher than all or higher than one
that is the question
I am an agnostic buddhist in NA and it works fine for me. higher power: laws of nature, dharma, turning towards light instead of darkness, wisdom coming out of shares. my groups, are not in the US or Europe, they do not pray, hold hands or hug and I would refuse if they did. and I take what is useful and leave the rest.
I'm an athiest, but I like the fellowship and the stories. Hearing another alcoholic tell what it was like then and how it is now is a transformative experience, unlike hearing anything from a counselor or physician. I did the steps because I wanted to be open minded and make a genuine effort, but for me it is the people and the shared experience.
I agree and that's my experience too. Personally, I don't have a conflict with the steps as an atheist because I can easily interpret the underlying action and experience described and just ignore all the god stuff.
- John S.
I’m not sure what my life would be like without daily inventory, I don’t need religion or magical thinking to benefit from the personal insight inventory brings
I found the all inclusive statements, 'Alcoholics Anonymous does not demand that you believe anything,' and 'All alcoholics are welcome.' were helpfull. They explain a viewpoint independent of anybody who does or does not attend meetings. Even, it seems to me, if they are one of the many who want to stop drinking but cannot. Thank you, guys.
Thanx gents for your conversations ... appreciated
Thanks for listening/watching. :)
Don’t stay one second longer then you think is necessary . Graduate as as possible. Freethinker groups are just a different wing of the same bird of culthood. There are no traps outside any of these fellowships. No death, no mental institutions, no prisons. Runner asap. You solved your habit and don’t need a philosophy or religion.
One of your more compelling episodes. Much appreciated!
Thanks for stopping by, Scott!
Profound ideas, are usually dangerous, leaving basic fear's, the trigger's, therefore for contempt, of unknown, reasons.
Im in aa because court said i haft to 7 days a week
Good point! Let’s Write a new “big book(s)” without god.
Why do we need all 'the baggage' on top of the AA fellowship ?
To induce the spiritual awakening (psychic change) to empower us to stop drinking ?
Get and stay sober on the fellowship, by all means.
But if you find yourself actually powerless like many of us have, don't forget. In AA God is a concept you can use to help deflate your ego and give you courage. He/She/It isn't a religious God as there's no religious or cultural context aside from the pronouns that point to 'Him'. lol
Hi John's! Dennis 40 Florida here. 5 Months without alcohol, without the help of a.a. but decided to go to meetings to hopefully find some like minded sober people lately. Maybe replace a few of the drunk assholes I booted out of my life in the past 5 months with some sober assholes lol. Having trouble finding a non religious group down in Lee county FL. I share Huey's mindset on this and I am VERY frustrated at meetings when everyone tells me that "santajesusgod" is the only way... Don't get me wrong, I am trilled that they found something that works for them. BUT! I feel like its kinda like putting a military recruiting station in a poor neighborhood. I feel 10 other bad ways about it also, but I didn't come here to piss in anyone's cornflakes. I am feeling very depressed and lonely taking care of my dad who has terminal lung cancer who drinks like a fish all day and smokes, ( I'm also trying to quit smoking). My pops is also a big fan of "santajususgod" I don't feel the need to pick up a drink but I"m going to loose it if I cant find people that don't seem nuts to me. I am reaching to find some outlets Help please thanks!!!
Hi Dennis. Recently, I've been attending SMART Recovery meetings and I like them a lot and would recommend them to anyone who wants support with their recovery from addiction. SMART is evidence-based with tools that are taken directly from cognitive-behavioral therapy. In addition to those tools, SMART also has the peer support element of AA, but without the religious baggage. Whatever religious beliefs a person holds or does not hold are immaterial at a SMART meeting. It simply never comes up, just as it never comes up in the workplace or when I take my car to the mechanic. It is totally irrelevant to a person's recovery. There are SMART meetings almost everywhere, though many are meeting online now because of the pandemic.
I have taken the facilitator training for SMART, been attending meetings, and podcasting about SMART, so my recommendation is based on that experience.
Here are some SMART Recovery links:
SMART Recovery website: www.smartrecovery.org/
Find a SMART Meeting: meetings.smartrecovery.org/meetings/location/
SMART Online Community: www.smartrecovery.org/community/
Another secular option is Life Ring. I need to do more episodes about them. They are entirely secular though they may not have as many meetings as SMART, they also have a lot of online meetings now because of COVID.
Here are some LifeRing links:
LifeRing Secular Recovery: lifering.org/
Find a Meeting: lifering.org/meeting-menu/
If you want to attend a secularly formatted AA meeting, those too are widely available online.
Here are some links to AA meetings with secular formats:
Online Intergroup of AA (filtered for secular meetings): aa-intergroup.org/meetings?types=Secular
A Listing of secular AA and NA meetings: secularrecovery.online/
I hope that helps you. My first recommendation is SMART. It started as secular so it's just natural that nothing pro or con regarding religion or spirituality ever comes up. Secular AA meetings came from religious AA meetings so there is sometimes tension because of the overtly religious origins of AA and the expectation of many who attend AA meetings (secular or otherwise) that things be done a certain way. I'm burned out on AA, if you can't tell. :)
Best of luck to you as you pursue a sober life.
@@BeyondBeliefSobriety thank you so much! I will do some homework now thank you! If Huey has some time sometime he seems like a dude I would really enjoy having a one-on-one with. So if you're looking for a bud to talk to to talk about common interests I believe we probably got a lot to share. But for now everyone take it easy keep dry and fly!
@@dennis706 I think John gave you a very reasonable list of alternatives. Like him I wish you all the best. Hooking up with a secular sober community online seems to be the way to go given your location and circumstances. While personally I'm not an advocate of Smart it seems to work for many and should be explored. For me it's all about a good meeting with good people in it who are focused on sobriety. I don't need or want a "facilitator"...
@@johnhuey4229 thanks for the reply bud haven't had time to really look for a group too much Dad's going downhill so I'm pretty tied up doing that. Still no drinking which is good. No desire to. Hoping an old friend might stop in or something. But anyway y'all have a great one!
Try Lifering. Abstinence but no god no steps no sponsors no cbt or rr or smart methods. Around 30 yrs r more. Founder Marty Niclaus or Nichlos. Ull find it.
Seems like lots of those people switch their addictions from alcohol to religion.
I go to AA to be of service. That’s where they keep the newcomers.
Any suggestions for a good secular daily reflections?
I would recommend Joe C.'s book, Beyond Belief: Agnostic Musings for Twelve Step Life: amzn.to/3zokt6O
Another option is Hazelden's " A Walk in Dry Places" which I would say is about 90% secular. amzn.to/2TCjjp4
@@BeyondBeliefSobriety thanks for the speedy response. 👍
I really like the Daily Stoic.
@@thebeirdowatchesmovies9180 what’s the daily stoic?
How do I get in touch w John for some info and tips on starting a secular meeting? I’m in Nashville, TN btw for anyone else who may know of any preexisting secular groups or meetings in the middle TN area.
I would be glad to help. Just send me an email to john@beyondbeliefsobriety.com.
There was a secular AA meeting in Nashville at one time but it may not be meeting any longer.
@@BeyondBeliefSobriety Awesome! Thank you! Will do! The work you’re doing is essential. It is saving lives, mine included.
Zoom not for me. So many of the physical meetings that were replaced by zoom are gone permanently. Zoom as an addition - fine. Pick different hours but leave the physical ones alone.
01:02:29
I'm sorry but John Huey sounds like he's an angry man. Just an observation. What happened to live and let live
Are we angry or what?
I’m not.
The guest is ... the host, nah ... he's chill. I'm a centrist (who admittedly leans right on issues such as gun control and abortion) and i absolutely feel the dogmatic religiosity of meetings is a big turnoff ... however, i find the anger and pissiness of a lot of atheist meetings to be just as toxic.
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