If it wasn't for this guy, I wouldn't be going down the path that I am. Excellent advice, training, customer service and of course, the products! Thank you Garret Fromme!
This is very helpful instructions on proper setup for router bits. The safety side on this video is very important. A sharp bit spinning at 25,000 rpm’s and coming at you is a very scary proposition. 10:05 pm
I was assigned to a classroom with a Laguna IQ CNC machine. I had no experience with CNC and I'm learning on my own. Your videos have helped me so much. Luckily, our machine has an enclosure because I caused a bit to snap last week. I did exactly what you described. I plan to spend the summer break watching more of your videos and the training from the company so my students can use the machine safely in the fall. Thank you for this video!
Great video. A good security feature is to install an anti-wobble micro-switch to the router mount which disconnects the router relay and cuts the power to the router when a pre-calibrated wobble is achieved. Imagine the centrifugal force of 10 grams, offset at a 45° angle, spinning at 16,000 RPM´s, let alone that massive bit in the video, it´s going to shake the hell out of the machine, maybe even rip the router, and its mount, off the crossbar. People are always all too willing to try and beat the system to get things done. A flying router bit, big or small is a lethal projectile that will kill you.
One more thing about the Makita Button stop for the shaft is, on a gantry, you SHOULD use both the wrenches to tighten the collet and NEVER just one wrench and the stop button. The single sided force then gets transfered into the rigidity of the z-axis mechanism/gantry and WHY would you want to reef on your z axis and gantry every time you tighten/loosten your collet. ALWAYS use both wrenches when doing a full tighten. Like you said, use the button to finger tighten and initially hold the bit ONLY, and ALWAYS use both wrenches for final set/tighten so NO force gets tranfered into your z-axis mechanism/gantry. Love yer videos Garrett, I've learned SO much from your instruction, Thank YOU! (edited: I spelled yer name wrong :) )
edmundcox9224, You make an excellent point about using both wrenches to tighten the collet. It’s important to avoid putting unnecessary strain on the Z-axis and gantry. I appreciate your kind words and I'm glad to hear you've learned so much from the videos!
This has to be the most comprehensive tutorial I've seen on this subject... and since I've seen most or close to all of your videos, it's great that you have condensed past thoughts and tips on the subject in this one video. Thanks!
Sir when you place a bit too far into the spindles/routers drive shaft and bottom it out or you place a large bit against the surface of the nut you are not allowing room for the collet and bit to move into the clamping taper as you tighten the chuck. This will result in a bit that has no place to move. The shaft or body of the bit is now constrained. So as you tighten the collet you will ether produce a side force and or a down force that will cause your bit to have run out and or uneven side pressures on the collet. This will result in the runout ether creating vibration or the side force will let go and thus you will have a loose bit. I have seen this occur numerous times in my CNC guild and at work and thus I highly recommend that you add it into the category of don't do this!
extremely useful points made. I have been a woodworker all my life and never looked into this subject in this detail. I thought I knew it all. But don't we do that.
Thank you. This is a great lesson to learn. Over tightening is one if the reasons I do my own car repairs. Too many times bolts and nuts are excessively over tightened leading to stripped heads and threads.
Justin, exactly! I'm glad the video was helpful brother, it's definitely similar to tightening down bolts on the car to the right torque specs and not over doing it. Couldn't have said it better myself! Happy cutting!
Finally, something I can understand. Well presented. I've been guilty of most of the "don'ts" you mentioned. So far, I've been very lucky it would seem. Thanks for explaining this in such a way that even I can understand it. Cheers from Australia, mate. 🇦🇺🇺🇸👍
Great video! These are points that most people are unaware of. Because no one talks about it. I also have machines enclosed for extra protection. The bit can turn into a bullet.
Great video for those new cnc owners that perhaps never touched a trim router before. Seems like common sense to most of us but maybe not to those who DON'T run these kind of tools all the time
I have been dealing with routers and bits for all of my adult life and for me the rule of thumb is the bottom of the shank at the end of the collet is perfect inserting beyond that the collet isn’t holding the bit anyways, now on a cnc you can’t always be certian of your depth but as long as I am at least that far in confidence is high
Jeff, thanks for sharing your insights brother! Your method seems to work well for you my friend and I say keep doing what works best for you! As the saying goes there's a thousand ways to skin a cat! Happy cncing!
as always great information, clear and well explained, I've had this problem myself and broke the beast, after a conversation with Garret I changed the way I chucked up to this method , the visual presentation of that conversation has improved the way I work even more, thanks Garret and team you keep us all going in the right direction.
Carl, you're so welcome brother! I'm glad having the video to reference from our conversation was helpful! I'm happy to be a part of your cnc journey and hopefully make things a little easier along the way! Happy cutting!
you should not bottom out the bit into the hole. It causes the bit to slide in the sides of the ER collect and can damage them. Also can prevent you from correctly tightening the ER collect correctly because you now have 2 forces pushing and not just 1. if you bottom out, just back off 1/4 inch or 5-6mm. This said, I think this is a great video for people. very educational.
Probably stating the obvious but, it might be worth mentioning that with ER collets, the collet should be snapped into the nut before putting in the bit, or the nut threading on the spindle.
Fantastic infomative video thank you so much, I am new to cnc and watch all of your video's and learn so much that others do not think to tell you once again thank you.
Solid info as always Garrett!! I had always been taught & heard to never bottom out your bits but never an explanation as to why. My father taught me to bottom out the bit then pull out about 1/4 inch or to clear the flutes. He always maintained that the shank should always be inserted to the length of the collet at a minimum for maximum grip. He did have a tendency to firm on the the clamping pressure tho. I can attest to how scary it is to have a bit snap on you!! Was using a good sized ogee bit in a 1-1/2HP router and it snapped just above the body of the bit. I was taking multiple light passes in a piece of walnut but it was a cheap bit. Thank the Lord it flew away from me when it snapped as it blew through the drywall 10 feet away from me!!! If it had come the other way I'd be sporting a new belly button at best and I don't want to think about the worst case scenario!!!!!! After that I have sworn off trying to save a $1 on those cheap bits!!
Garrett Good job It always amazes me, how many people skips the basics One thing you might have mention is some collets and collet nuts snap together making 2 pieces into one , they have a. Tendency for the nut to not tighten up properly. Also you where talking about the hardness of router bits ,I have drop them on the concrete floor and damage to them I do look them over careful I throw away and that hard but not taking a chance I have had boards and other thing get loose and do have small wounds lucky nothing real serious 24:13 Play safe
Excellent information. Thanks Garrett. I searched for guidance on this when I first got my CNC, but I couldn't find much about it, so it's great you put together such an incredible explanation.
Most users of ER collets use ER11 3mm to 1/4" and sizes between , which is significantly smaller than the ER20 you're showing. Ive always been told you need to fully enclose the bit shank within the upper taper can exceed, but not shorter!
Great video. You have the best videos to learn by. Also now I know that there is a button on my router to stop the shaft so I can get the bit to hold before tightening it.
I've literally had end mills explode and send fragments of sharp tool steel flying all around me. One large shard passed so close to my scalp that it touched my hair before embedding in a steel window frame. I've even had a carbide insert pass through the 14 ga. steel machine enclosure and hit the wall beside me as I was walking by. The operator had over tightened the set screw to the point it split, thereby greatly reducing the holding force. Machining can be very dangerous, even when you are an expert journeyman with many years of experience. It is even more dangerous for a hobbyist. Garrett is providing good advice, so pay attention and take it to heart.
@@IDCWoodcraft Thanks. I've shed my share of blood in shops, but it was most often from burrs slicing open fingers and metal shavings coming through the soles of my work boots. As I tell new workers in a shop environment, everything is actively working to kill you every single day. Don't let that happen.
Good stuff as always. Would like to see more information on the longer bits. I have been very frustrated with them as they tend towalk out and destroy my project. Maybe feeds and speeds? They care so useful when needing to do a deep pocket. Thanks Doug
Excellent video Garrett. While I do not agree that it's ok for a bit to go all the way up and bottoming out (there should always be a clearance of the thickness of a piece of paper), this video should be mandatory viewing for anyone buying a CNC. Pony
Thanks Garrett especially from this newbie of CNC. Here's a thought. Why don't they just add/engrave recommended place markers on the bits like on a car dip stick? Anyway, I appreciate the lesson. I am an extremely new beginner to the CNC (a 30x30 Longmill CNC 🙂, even watched your review) and this helps me understand and do things correctly. Cheers!
With your radius cutter, you said ideal situation is the tool chucked up all the way up to the collet. In theory it isn't, because there is a radius where the cutter head and shank meet. By chucking all the way up you risk putting the collet on the radius and could slip.
garrettp.5018, That's a great observation! It's true that you want to ensure a secure fit in the collet while considering the geometry of the cutter. It's always a balance between maximizing the tool's reach and maintaining a strong grip to prevent slippage. Proper setup and knowing your tool can help minimize risks. Thanks for sharing your insights!
On large cutters, I have always gone by the rule of "no more than 2 shank diameters" sticking out (no more than 1/2" on a 1/4" shank bit), that way if it's a different manufacturer with a different shank length you'll still be safe with those big boys
Great tips! But I'm sorry, I have to politely disagree with the bottoming out of the bit in the collet. It's got nothing to do with heat transfer or whatever, but if the bit extends past the bottom of the collet (not the cutting side) then as it gets tight, it can stop you from tightening it fully because the collet has grabbed on to the bit before reaching full turns with the nut, especially if you have a collet nut that is quite tight to begin with.
Really good and important information to get out there for the masses, Garrett. Once again, a superior job on the video, with everything explained in perfect detail. Thank you!
Great video Garret. Also do not buy cheap Chinese bits. They break easily. I bought some before I found your site. Although I am in Australia orders still come quickly. I have had a break from CNC as I have been learning laser engraving. I will be getting back into CNC shortly after I install a new spindle on my 6040. Fortunately I have one in stock as I was expecting the spindle to fail eventually as the one supplied was not great quality.
I decided to make sure a broken bit never impales my handsome face by mounting a piece of Plexiglas to the front of my router. All I did was attach two magnetic cabinet latches to the bottom of the plastic shield and then to the front of my table. Now, I just flip the shield up when the router is running. I also have a smoke alarm and fire extinguisher in case I do something stupid like go upstairs while the router is running.
Super interesting and helpfulI video I dont even own a CNC machine yet but Like to learn so when i do buy one I will have Good habits and knowledge. Thanks i wish for more videos
Nick, welcome to the amazing world of CNC my friend! I'm glad the videos have been helpful so far and I'm looking forward to you getting your machine and seeing what you create!
I always set mine as far in as it can go and still cut what I want. I do not go more then half way up the bits smooth area. I also use less cut per pass if it is out farther.
The real issue as I see it with this Makita router (which I have also) is that the collet is only single locking using a collet cone rather than a spring collet. These are not self-centring and increase runout on the bit....after all, this Makita unit is design as a 1HP palm router rather than specifically being a CNC spindle. I push my bits full depth and withdraw it a little, so any runout that is being introduced is as minimal as possible. I absolutely would not advocate using wide heavy bits in that single-locking collet arrangement, as any vibration can be disastrous. Absolute agreement about the spindle lock button. It's only good for spinning up the nut by hand, nothing more. A big problem that I see in the design of this palm router is that the rear commutator bearing is held within the plastic housing....not a very stable or vibration free idea. It's a palm/trim router. We have to manage our expectations, moreso when safety is a factor. Cheers!
Absolutely another great video, Garrett!! This definitely is perfect for the beginner and a good refresher for the folks who've been doing this awhile. We're all guilty of doing this at some point, so this is a great reminder on how to chuck our bits properly and safely. Everyone that watches this will be more mindful of it now. If you ever start to categorize your videos, consider putting this in your "A Beginner's Guide to CNCing with Garrett Fromme" series. 😁❤ I can also help produce it if you'd like....ya know, a Deniro and Scorsese type thing. I think it would be a highly anticipated event.🤣 Coincidentally, I got my new 3/16 compression bit today and I can't wait to use this sucker. 😃👍
Add a drill bit debt stop collar to your router bits. You will always have enough grip and when using a jig you get a very similar cutting debt (within micro millimetres) incase you have to change your bit because it's dull or broken. No Z adjustment . Also you know the difference in cutting debt between different bits. Easy to adjust the Z hight when you have a tool change.
As heat travels from hot to cold, I would say if you have so much where you're concerned about heat travel past your collet, you're working the bit far too hard. Cooling out to be looked at for suitable materials, and if not applicable, take smaller bites. 😉 I've had to work around making deep cuts far out of reach of even an extended length bit by vertically sectioning the parts and keying the layers together. Most of these are functional parts versus cosmetic, so the layer line between materials isn't much of concern so long as its filled where necessary and the mating surfaces are flat. If it is cosmetic, that sounds like an opportunity for extra stain shades or wood types.
C-M-E, You bring up some great points about managing heat and making strategic cuts, especially when working with deep profiles! Vertical sectioning is a smart way to handle those challenging projects, and it’s impressive how you prioritize functionality over cosmetic details when needed. Layering different materials can definitely create some interesting effects, and it opens up a lot of creative possibilities with stains and finishes. It's always exciting to see how different techniques can come together to achieve the desired results!
I always used as a rule. the hole above the nut i put the bit inside until i see it just start poking inside the hole. I have some things i CNC that is 2.5 in thick. I have had jobs that i had to stop and adjust my bit to get more out of it until i started fallowing that rule of the hole.
Hello Garrett I enjoyed the video but my question is what about drill bit collars do you recommend them thanks I just reached out to Kate about one of her tips for painting signs which helped me out
another query covered .... depth of insertion. crystal clear. BUT Why don't IDC mark / engrave /etch the suggested /safe depth on the shaft of the tools ? they can mark the IDC moniker?
MrDigga53, I’m glad to hear that the depth of insertion was clear for you! It's a great suggestion to have markings for safe depth on tools. It could enhance safety and ease of use. Ill look into that brother! Thanks for sharing your idea.
I really enjoyed your presentation this subject. It was loaded with lots of valuable information and I learned a lot. I do have a question about the collets. I don't have a CNC, but I do have routers. I was wondering if the CNC "labled" collets are specific for CNC's or can they be used in handheld routers, as well? I will appreciate and feedback.
user-ns3nn1ik1n, glad to hear this one helped you brother! Most collets designed for CNC spindles wont fit in a handheld router. I would recommend that you purchase a collet specific for your handheld router my friend.
I strongly disagree on pushing full to bottom of chuck cavity as grab may not occur completely and loosen the bit further.. ther should be a bit of space for collect grab at least 10percent space to move and grab.. have first hand experience that really goes wrong otherwise especially ER bits. Rest of content is very Well explained...
Great timing for this video! Was looking for some tutorials on bits and collets, and there are surprisingly few videos online. Just one question: I have the same Makita router (part of the Bobs CNC Quantum machine). It says it uses 1/4" shank bits, which I bought, but I have to force them into the collet. They don't just slide easily into the collet like in your video. I'm just confused if I need smaller bits, or if I do something wrong. Thanks for the great content Garrett!
Thanks for the information in this video Garrett! Considering the router itself, what is its proper depth in the z bracket? It would seem there's potential for fulcrum force based on leverage from the bit feed if the router extends too far down.
Good info. I have not seen this said before. So here's my question. I know that they sell them but I was thinking of getting a bunch of shaft collars and putting them on my bits so when I change the bit in the middle of a job I don't have to worry about zero height as much. Is there any chance of throwing off the balance of the bits by doing this? Thanks
That's a great question! You want to find balanced collars. These are colors that have been spun up and have had material removed in certain spots to make sure they're in balance at high rotation
Ouch. The horizontal forces on bits is quite problematic unless feed speeds are really low, We cut multiple times on single path . On 3/4 material its cut 3 times at about 1/4 depth on each pass
*The problem is there are two different styles of spring collets(you only showed one), this is why you see advertisers telling you NOT to fully insert the bit* There are 2 (main) types or "styles" of ER11 collet, the clamping style(first and third collets you showed) and the spring style (second collet you showed). *Spring style clamps need room at the top(router side) of the collet in order to function correctly* because well, they are a spring and need room to compress (This is why the second collet you showed had an open (wider) section drilled out of the back of the collet), so when the collet is tightened the taper can compress fully to secure the bit. *The second style of spring collet HAS NO clearance hole drilled in the back of the collet. Bits should NEVER be inserted past the bottom of the very top slots cut into these collets* (roughly 2-10 mm from the end depending on shank diameter). *If you insert the shank past this point on this style of collet, the spring won't compress, and there will be a slight taper between the inside of the collet and the bit shank as well as the collet and the taper inside the router, causing only partial engagement*
teksatan4699, Thanks for pointing that out, it's important to be aware of the different collet styles and how they should be used with router bits. It's essential to have the correct understanding of how to insert the bit into the collet to ensure optimal performance and safety. Remember to always follow the manufacturer's guidelines for your specific collet type. Thanks for sharing brother!
Actually you dont have the long bit i want.. LOL I ordered the rough cut one but the other ones out of stock.. I put in my email so holler when you got em!! thanks for the videos
If you bottom out the bit in the tool, there is the possibility that when you go to tighten the collet, you cant get it tight enough as the bit has no room to move UP as you tighten the bit.
![Down Bits (Down Cut) And CNC Routers [What You Didn't Know] - Garrett Fromme](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tykj6Nn-ysM/mqdefault.jpg)
If it wasn't for this guy, I wouldn't be going down the path that I am. Excellent advice, training, customer service and of course, the products! Thank you Garret Fromme!
dnelsongb, I'm truly humbled and glad to be a part of your cnc journey my friend!
That was a great tutorial! Everyone should watch it to protect yourself as well as your machine!
sanmex2, Thank you so much for your kind words! I'm glad you found the tutorial helpful!
After years of running Bridgeports, and milling machines, you are 100% correct!!
Ozguzzi, glad to hear it my friend.
Good to know! I'm new to CNC, and this is info I haven't found anywhere else. This is the type of thing they should tell you right off the bat!
MichaelJansen, right on brother! Glad to hear this helped you.
This is very helpful instructions on proper setup for router bits. The safety side on this video is very important. A sharp bit spinning at 25,000 rpm’s and coming at you is a very scary proposition.
10:05 pm
Howard, glad to hear this one helped brother! Can never be too safe.
I was assigned to a classroom with a Laguna IQ CNC machine. I had no experience with CNC and I'm learning on my own. Your videos have helped me so much. Luckily, our machine has an enclosure because I caused a bit to snap last week. I did exactly what you described. I plan to spend the summer break watching more of your videos and the training from the company so my students can use the machine safely in the fall. Thank you for this video!
Menard, an enclosure is a good idea brother! Safety is #1!
Menard, an enclosure is a good idea brother! Safety is #1!
Great video. A good security feature is to install an anti-wobble micro-switch to the router mount which disconnects the router relay and cuts the power to the router when a pre-calibrated wobble is achieved. Imagine the centrifugal force of 10 grams, offset at a 45° angle, spinning at 16,000 RPM´s, let alone that massive bit in the video, it´s going to shake the hell out of the machine, maybe even rip the router, and its mount, off the crossbar. People are always all too willing to try and beat the system to get things done. A flying router bit, big or small is a lethal projectile that will kill you.
Raymond, that is a great idea brother! All good points.
This is a very useful video. Watch it *before* you start playing with your CNC router.
rwilb2, so glad to hear that brother! Happy CNCing.
One more thing about the Makita Button stop for the shaft is, on a gantry, you SHOULD use both the wrenches to tighten the collet and NEVER just one wrench and the stop button. The single sided force then gets transfered into the rigidity of the z-axis mechanism/gantry and WHY would you want to reef on your z axis and gantry every time you tighten/loosten your collet. ALWAYS use both wrenches when doing a full tighten. Like you said, use the button to finger tighten and initially hold the bit ONLY, and ALWAYS use both wrenches for final set/tighten so NO force gets tranfered into your z-axis mechanism/gantry. Love yer videos Garrett, I've learned SO much from your instruction, Thank YOU! (edited: I spelled yer name wrong :) )
edmundcox9224, You make an excellent point about using both wrenches to tighten the collet. It’s important to avoid putting unnecessary strain on the Z-axis and gantry. I appreciate your kind words and I'm glad to hear you've learned so much from the videos!
This has to be the most comprehensive tutorial I've seen on this subject... and since I've seen most or close to all of your videos, it's great that you have condensed past thoughts and tips on the subject in this one video. Thanks!
Michael, I am so glad to hear it brother.
Sir when you place a bit too far into the spindles/routers drive shaft and bottom it out or you place a large bit against the surface of the nut you are not allowing room for the collet and bit to move into the clamping taper as you tighten the chuck. This will result in a bit that has no place to move. The shaft or body of the bit is now constrained. So as you tighten the collet you will ether produce a side force and or a down force that will cause your bit to have run out and or uneven side pressures on the collet. This will result in the runout ether creating vibration or the side force will let go and thus you will have a loose bit. I have seen this occur numerous times in my CNC guild and at work and thus I highly recommend that you add it into the category of don't do this!
Mjjeanson, you bring up quite a lot of good points brother. I appreciate you sharing your perspective, I will add this to future videos.
This has to be the most informative CNC video I have seen on RUclips. Thank you for the info.
DJRHurls, You're welcome! I'm glad you found the video informative!
As a newbie I found this video extremely helpful. You do great work.
DannyCarter-q2d, Thank you so much for your kind words! I'm glad you found the video helpful.
extremely useful points made. I have been a woodworker all my life and never looked into this subject in this detail. I thought I knew it all. But don't we do that.
Allistair, never quit learning brother! It will pay off in the end.
Thank you. This is a great lesson to learn. Over tightening is one if the reasons I do my own car repairs. Too many times bolts and nuts are excessively over tightened leading to stripped heads and threads.
Justin, exactly! I'm glad the video was helpful brother, it's definitely similar to tightening down bolts on the car to the right torque specs and not over doing it. Couldn't have said it better myself! Happy cutting!
Finally, something I can understand. Well presented. I've been guilty of most of the "don'ts" you mentioned. So far, I've been very lucky it would seem. Thanks for explaining this in such a way that even I can understand it. Cheers from Australia, mate. 🇦🇺🇺🇸👍
Chris, right on brother! Glad to hear this one helped you.
Great video! These are points that most people are unaware of. Because no one talks about it. I also have machines enclosed for extra protection. The bit can turn into a bullet.
Billy, glad to hear you liked this one my friend.
Billy, glad to hear you liked this one my friend.
Great video for those new cnc owners that perhaps never touched a trim router before. Seems like common sense to most of us but maybe not to those who DON'T run these kind of tools all the time
24:06 Common sense is far too uncommon.
@B. Koehli, KC (retired) agreed, there's a whole lot of stupid out there
Steve, glad to hear it. It is a good lesson in safety for sure!
I have been dealing with routers and bits for all of my adult life and for me the rule of thumb is the bottom of the shank at the end of the collet is perfect inserting beyond that the collet isn’t holding the bit anyways, now on a cnc you can’t always be certian of your depth but as long as I am at least that far in confidence is high
Jeff, thanks for sharing your insights brother! Your method seems to work well for you my friend and I say keep doing what works best for you! As the saying goes there's a thousand ways to skin a cat! Happy cncing!
as always great information, clear and well explained, I've had this problem myself and broke the beast, after a conversation with Garret I changed the way I chucked up to this method , the visual presentation of that conversation has improved the way I work even more, thanks Garret and team you keep us all going in the right direction.
Carl, you're so welcome brother! I'm glad having the video to reference from our conversation was helpful! I'm happy to be a part of your cnc journey and hopefully make things a little easier along the way! Happy cutting!
you should not bottom out the bit into the hole. It causes the bit to slide in the sides of the ER collect and can damage them. Also can prevent you from correctly tightening the ER collect correctly because you now have 2 forces pushing and not just 1. if you bottom out, just back off 1/4 inch or 5-6mm.
This said, I think this is a great video for people. very educational.
K, good call my friend. I could definitely see your perspective on this one.
@@IDCWoodcraft we all learn from each other. I have learned allot from your videos and enjoy them.
How did you know that was my question left over from last night?? Perfect timing! Thanks so much for creating these videos!
Rebecca, you are so welcome. I want to make sure you are off to the right foot.
Great information. Glad someone is teaching about using the CNC and answering a lot of questions. It’s greatly appreciated
kenmoon8647, Thank you for the kind words! I'm passionate about CNC woodworking and happy to share my knowledge.
Probably stating the obvious but, it might be worth mentioning that with ER collets, the collet should be snapped into the nut before putting in the bit, or the nut threading on the spindle.
John, good point brother!
this has helped me to make sure i am safe with my cnc. thank you
dfedx1726, I'm glad to hear that! Safety is so important in woodworking.
Fantastic infomative video thank you so much, I am new to cnc and watch all of your video's and learn so much that others do not think to tell you once again thank you.
andrewmoore2598, I'm so glad to hear that you found the video informative! Thanks for your kind words, and happy CNC woodworking!
Solid info as always Garrett!! I had always been taught & heard to never bottom out your bits but never an explanation as to why. My father taught me to bottom out the bit then pull out about 1/4 inch or to clear the flutes. He always maintained that the shank should always be inserted to the length of the collet at a minimum for maximum grip. He did have a tendency to firm on the the clamping pressure tho.
I can attest to how scary it is to have a bit snap on you!! Was using a good sized ogee bit in a 1-1/2HP router and it snapped just above the body of the bit. I was taking multiple light passes in a piece of walnut but it was a cheap bit. Thank the Lord it flew away from me when it snapped as it blew through the drywall 10 feet away from me!!! If it had come the other way I'd be sporting a new belly button at best and I don't want to think about the worst case scenario!!!!!! After that I have sworn off trying to save a $1 on those cheap bits!!
Paramoose, glad to hear this one helped you brother! I could see your fathers perspective and he has some very good points.
Garrett
Good job It always amazes me, how many people skips the basics
One thing you might have mention is some collets and collet nuts snap together making 2 pieces into one , they have a. Tendency for the nut to not tighten up properly.
Also you where talking about the hardness of router bits ,I have drop them on the concrete floor and damage to them I do look them over careful I throw away and that hard but not taking a chance
I have had boards and other thing get loose and do have small wounds lucky nothing real serious 24:13
Play safe
John, you are exactly right brother! Cant be more safe in the shop.
Glad I saw this video before playing with CNC for the first time. Very helpful!!!
boomheadshot369, im so glad to hear it brother!
Excellent information. Thanks Garrett. I searched for guidance on this when I first got my CNC, but I couldn't find much about it, so it's great you put together such an incredible explanation.
tpsooner7816, thanks brother! I'm glad to help!
Great content, every CNC user should view.
Warren, glad to hear it brother!
Great information. I hope new users will take this seriously. Thanks Garrett!!!
David, glad to hear it brother! You are so welcome.
Most users of ER collets use ER11 3mm to 1/4" and sizes between , which is significantly smaller than the ER20 you're showing. Ive always been told you need to fully enclose the bit shank within the upper taper can exceed, but not shorter!
JohnColgan, good points brother! Having the proper clamping on an ER collet is critical.
We all need to think safety first, and most of us need a reminder from time to time
Derek, I couldn't agree more my friend! Happy cutting!
Great video. You have the best videos to learn by. Also now I know that there is a button on my router to stop the shaft so I can get the bit to hold before tightening it.
CrSpices, glad to hear you liked this video brother! The button is great for holding the bits for sure.
I've literally had end mills explode and send fragments of sharp tool steel flying all around me. One large shard passed so close to my scalp that it touched my hair before embedding in a steel window frame. I've even had a carbide insert pass through the 14 ga. steel machine enclosure and hit the wall beside me as I was walking by. The operator had over tightened the set screw to the point it split, thereby greatly reducing the holding force.
Machining can be very dangerous, even when you are an expert journeyman with many years of experience. It is even more dangerous for a hobbyist. Garrett is providing good advice, so pay attention and take it to heart.
Gaius, you can never be too safe around a CNC my friend! Glad to hear you didnt get hurt.
@@IDCWoodcraft Thanks. I've shed my share of blood in shops, but it was most often from burrs slicing open fingers and metal shavings coming through the soles of my work boots.
As I tell new workers in a shop environment, everything is actively working to kill you every single day. Don't let that happen.
Good stuff as always. Would like to see more information on the longer bits. I have been very frustrated with them as they tend towalk out and destroy my project. Maybe feeds and speeds? They care so useful when needing to do a deep pocket.
Thanks
Doug
Doug, feeds and speeds for long bits can be tricky but for those longer bits, slower feeds tends to be safer.
Garrett, Thank you Brother.. your content is ALWAYS germane and informative!!
Roy, you are so welcome brother.
This is very useful information that everyone should be aware of. Thanks for this useful video. Great job explaining the safety aspects.
Joe, I am so glad to hear this one helped you brother!
great video. wish it was around 30 years ago. I had a bit to come went pasts my head and stuck in the wall on the other side of my shop
Henry, very funny brother! Glad you liked this one.
This is a good video. It will help me on my routers that aren't in a cnc
Glad to hear this video helped you brother! Proper chucking of bits is important no matter the tool used.
Great video, much appreciated! Safety always first. It can protect your bits, machine, and self. Solid Advice!
Jeff, you bet! I couldn't agree more brother, safety should always comes first!
Very helpful! It's good to have a simple rule or two tucked away in the back of my mind to guide my setup process; thank you!
Dan, right on glad you enjoyed this one.
Excellent video Garrett.
While I do not agree that it's ok for a bit to go all the way up and bottoming out (there should always be a clearance of the thickness of a piece of paper), this video should be mandatory viewing for anyone buying a CNC.
Pony
Pony, great points brother. Glad you liked this one.
Pony, great points brother. Glad you liked this one.
Thanks Garrett especially from this newbie of CNC. Here's a thought. Why don't they just add/engrave recommended place markers on the bits like on a car dip stick? Anyway, I appreciate the lesson. I am an extremely new beginner to the CNC (a 30x30 Longmill CNC 🙂, even watched your review) and this helps me understand and do things correctly. Cheers!
JKArgonis, Excellent suggestion brother. I'll have to keep that in mind for the future!
I always learn something from your videos Garrett. Thank you!
Meika, you are so welcome my friend.
Meika, you are so welcome my friend.
With your radius cutter, you said ideal situation is the tool chucked up all the way up to the collet. In theory it isn't, because there is a radius where the cutter head and shank meet. By chucking all the way up you risk putting the collet on the radius and could slip.
garrettp.5018, That's a great observation! It's true that you want to ensure a secure fit in the collet while considering the geometry of the cutter. It's always a balance between maximizing the tool's reach and maintaining a strong grip to prevent slippage. Proper setup and knowing your tool can help minimize risks. Thanks for sharing your insights!
On large cutters, I have always gone by the rule of "no more than 2 shank diameters" sticking out (no more than 1/2" on a 1/4" shank bit), that way if it's a different manufacturer with a different shank length you'll still be safe with those big boys
Ben, very true brother. That is a great rule.
Great tips! But I'm sorry, I have to politely disagree with the bottoming out of the bit in the collet. It's got nothing to do with heat transfer or whatever, but if the bit extends past the bottom of the collet (not the cutting side) then as it gets tight, it can stop you from tightening it fully because the collet has grabbed on to the bit before reaching full turns with the nut, especially if you have a collet nut that is quite tight to begin with.
Paradise, very good point my friend. I could see your perspective on this one.
What about the use of spaceballs to minimize overheating of the bit as well as the sticking of the bit in the router.
William, using spaceballs is a great idea. I'll have to do some research on that one brother, thanks!
Really good and important information to get out there for the masses, Garrett. Once again, a superior job on the video, with everything explained in perfect detail. Thank you!
GregSettle, thank you so much for the kind words brother. Im so happy too hear this one helped you out!
Thank you! I'm super new to cnc and this was very helpful info for me!
Susie, you're welcome! I'm glad it was helpful!
Great video Garret. Also do not buy cheap Chinese bits. They break easily. I bought some before I found your site. Although I am in Australia orders still come quickly. I have had a break from CNC as I have been learning laser engraving. I will be getting back into CNC shortly after I install a new spindle on my 6040. Fortunately I have one in stock as I was expecting the spindle to fail eventually as the one supplied was not great quality.
Peter, very good point my friend!
Thanks for another useful video.
Answered a couple questions I’ve had recently.
Lyle, I am so happy to hear that my friend!
I decided to make sure a broken bit never impales my handsome face by mounting a piece of Plexiglas to the front of my router. All I did was attach two magnetic cabinet latches to the bottom of the plastic shield and then to the front of my table. Now, I just flip the shield up when the router is running.
I also have a smoke alarm and fire extinguisher in case I do something stupid like go upstairs while the router is running.
Roger, that is a very good idea brother! You can never be too safe around a CNC.
Super interesting and helpfulI video I dont even own a CNC machine yet but Like to learn so when i do buy one I will have Good habits and knowledge. Thanks i wish for more videos
Nick, welcome to the amazing world of CNC my friend! I'm glad the videos have been helpful so far and I'm looking forward to you getting your machine and seeing what you create!
Very straightforward guide. Good info. Thank you!
Claude, you are so welcome!
I always set mine as far in as it can go and still cut what I want. I do not go more then half way up the bits smooth area. I also use less cut per pass if it is out farther.
JerryPeevey, great point brother! It sounds like you have a good system there!
Great info!!! Thanks for keeping me safe with all the great safety tips.
Alfred, thanks brother! I'm glad it was helpful for you!
Great video Garret safety first Thank you...
George, I couldnt have said it better myself!
The real issue as I see it with this Makita router (which I have also) is that the collet is only single locking using a collet cone rather than a spring collet. These are not self-centring and increase runout on the bit....after all, this Makita unit is design as a 1HP palm router rather than specifically being a CNC spindle. I push my bits full depth and withdraw it a little, so any runout that is being introduced is as minimal as possible. I absolutely would not advocate using wide heavy bits in that single-locking collet arrangement, as any vibration can be disastrous. Absolute agreement about the spindle lock button. It's only good for spinning up the nut by hand, nothing more. A big problem that I see in the design of this palm router is that the rear commutator bearing is held within the plastic housing....not a very stable or vibration free idea. It's a palm/trim router. We have to manage our expectations, moreso when safety is a factor. Cheers!
Tristan, all fair points my friend! Thanks for sharing your insight and perspective!
Absolutely another great video, Garrett!! This definitely is perfect for the beginner and a good refresher for the folks who've been doing this awhile. We're all guilty of doing this at some point, so this is a great reminder on how to chuck our bits properly and safely. Everyone that watches this will be more mindful of it now.
If you ever start to categorize your videos, consider putting this in your "A Beginner's Guide to CNCing with Garrett Fromme" series. 😁❤
I can also help produce it if you'd like....ya know, a Deniro and Scorsese type thing. I think it would be a highly anticipated event.🤣
Coincidentally, I got my new 3/16 compression bit today and I can't wait to use this sucker. 😃👍
Joe, I am so happy to hear that this one helped you. You can never be too safe in the shop! Glad to hear you got your new bit!
Once again great information. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and expertise Garrett!
Doug, right on! Glad this one helped.
Doug, right on! Glad this one helped.
Just noticed you have one on one's on your website. That's brilliant.
atamazon, thanks brother! Kate is an excellent teacher and I know you will get a lot out of booking a one on one with her.
Another great video, i'm still learning. Keep up the great work.
I was wondering if a guideline could be placed on bits in the manufacturing process??
Stephen, thanks brother! The guide line is an interesting idea, I've have a similar thought like that too. I'll keep you in the loop!
Add a drill bit debt stop collar to your router bits. You will always have enough grip and when using a jig you get a very similar cutting debt (within micro millimetres) incase you have to change your bit because it's dull or broken. No Z adjustment . Also you know the difference in cutting debt between different bits. Easy to adjust the Z hight when you have a tool change.
aragorndedolor4171, that is a great idea brother! I like that.
As heat travels from hot to cold, I would say if you have so much where you're concerned about heat travel past your collet, you're working the bit far too hard. Cooling out to be looked at for suitable materials, and if not applicable, take smaller bites. 😉
I've had to work around making deep cuts far out of reach of even an extended length bit by vertically sectioning the parts and keying the layers together. Most of these are functional parts versus cosmetic, so the layer line between materials isn't much of concern so long as its filled where necessary and the mating surfaces are flat. If it is cosmetic, that sounds like an opportunity for extra stain shades or wood types.
C-M-E, You bring up some great points about managing heat and making strategic cuts, especially when working with deep profiles! Vertical sectioning is a smart way to handle those challenging projects, and it’s impressive how you prioritize functionality over cosmetic details when needed. Layering different materials can definitely create some interesting effects, and it opens up a lot of creative possibilities with stains and finishes. It's always exciting to see how different techniques can come together to achieve the desired results!
New info for me, thank you for the extremely Important instruction
Len, glad to hear this helped brother!
Thanks for doing these videos always helpful 😊
Kennith, you are so welcome brother!
Excellent advice! I will definitely check out your router bits.
rschulz01, right on brother! I'm looking forward to you trying them out soon!
I always used as a rule. the hole above the nut i put the bit inside until i see it just start poking inside the hole. I have some things i CNC that is 2.5 in thick. I have had jobs that i had to stop and adjust my bit to get more out of it until i started fallowing that rule of the hole.
st0mper121, that's a great rule of thumb brother. Thanks for sharing!
Thank you again Garrett!!, this is valuable information.
Nwnimbleman, you are so welcome!
Hello Garrett I enjoyed the video but my question is what about drill bit collars do you recommend them thanks I just reached out to Kate about one of her tips for painting signs which helped me out
Dave, you dont need drill bit collars brother. It is all controlled in the CNC.
@@IDCWoodcraft thank you
Love your videos!! You explain everything so well!!
SupperBattleBros, thank you brother! Im so glad to hear this one helped you.
Valuable information! Will put it to good user for sure!
WynandSchoonbee, I'm glad it was helpful brother!
Good info, will always try to remember.
Jim, right on. Keep learning everything you can!
another query covered .... depth of insertion. crystal clear.
BUT
Why don't IDC mark / engrave /etch the suggested /safe depth on the shaft of the tools ? they can mark the IDC moniker?
MrDigga53, I’m glad to hear that the depth of insertion was clear for you! It's a great suggestion to have markings for safe depth on tools. It could enhance safety and ease of use. Ill look into that brother! Thanks for sharing your idea.
PM incoming ... 🙂
Nice,a little redundant but gets the point of importance to pay attention across
SamSpade, so glad to hear this one helped you brother!
Great video, always enjoy your lessons!
Adam, I'm glad it was helpful for you brother!
Garrett, this is a great video! Thank you.
Rega3160, you are so welcome brother!
great information and I learned a few things
Michael, right on brother! Glad to hear it.
Very good video! For your Hog bit which is a down bit. Why not an Up cut bit?
bryansmith1303, sorry for the confusion on this one brother! The HOG is an upcut!
I really enjoyed your presentation this subject. It was loaded with lots of valuable information and I learned a lot. I do have a question about the collets. I don't have a CNC, but I do have routers. I was wondering if the CNC "labled" collets are specific for CNC's or can they be used in handheld routers, as well? I will appreciate and feedback.
user-ns3nn1ik1n, glad to hear this one helped you brother! Most collets designed for CNC spindles wont fit in a handheld router. I would recommend that you purchase a collet specific for your handheld router my friend.
Hey Garrett, just getting started in the CNC world. I just ordered one of your 1.5 surfacing bits. So the 1/3 rule applies for this bit?
Great question. It applies to all router bits
I strongly disagree on pushing full to bottom of chuck cavity as grab may not occur completely and loosen the bit further.. ther should be a bit of space for collect grab at least 10percent space to move and grab.. have first hand experience that really goes wrong otherwise especially ER bits. Rest of content is very Well explained...
You are right and I'm not sure what I was thinking when I did the video. I will probably redo it just because of that print
Another great info video! Thank you.
Tim, you are so welcome!
Great timing for this video! Was looking for some tutorials on bits and collets, and there are surprisingly few videos online. Just one question: I have the same Makita router (part of the Bobs CNC Quantum machine). It says it uses 1/4" shank bits, which I bought, but I have to force them into the collet. They don't just slide easily into the collet like in your video. I'm just confused if I need smaller bits, or if I do something wrong.
Thanks for the great content Garrett!
There are two things that could be wrong here. Either your collet is a 6 mm collet or it is just undersized.
Thanks for the information in this video Garrett!
Considering the router itself, what is its proper depth in the z bracket? It would seem there's potential for fulcrum force based on leverage from the bit feed if the router extends too far down.
Gary, that is a very good point. You will need to follow the manufacturer recommendations but typically as low as possible is acceptable for this one.
Gary, that is a very good point. You will need to follow the manufacturer recommendations but typically as low as possible is acceptable for this one.
Thanks for share your knowlege! is there a reduction to 1/8 bits for the Makita router?
juanalbertocorniel, You're welcome! I sure do have one brother! Here is a link: idcwoodcraft.com/products/makita-1-8-collet
Good info. I have not seen this said before. So here's my question. I know that they sell them but I was thinking of getting a bunch of shaft collars and putting them on my bits so when I change the bit in the middle of a job I don't have to worry about zero height as much. Is there any chance of throwing off the balance of the bits by doing this? Thanks
That's a great question! You want to find balanced collars. These are colors that have been spun up and have had material removed in certain spots to make sure they're in balance at high rotation
Ouch. The horizontal forces on bits is quite problematic unless feed speeds are really low, We cut multiple times on single path . On 3/4 material its cut 3 times at about 1/4 depth on each pass
John, I couldn't agree more brother! It sounds like you guys are doing an awesome job over there my friend! Happy cncing!
*The problem is there are two different styles of spring collets(you only showed one), this is why you see advertisers telling you NOT to fully insert the bit*
There are 2 (main) types or "styles" of ER11 collet, the clamping style(first and third collets you showed) and the spring style (second collet you showed). *Spring style clamps need room at the top(router side) of the collet in order to function correctly* because well, they are a spring and need room to compress (This is why the second collet you showed had an open (wider) section drilled out of the back of the collet), so when the collet is tightened the taper can compress fully to secure the bit. *The second style of spring collet HAS NO clearance hole drilled in the back of the collet. Bits should NEVER be inserted past the bottom of the very top slots cut into these collets* (roughly 2-10 mm from the end depending on shank diameter). *If you insert the shank past this point on this style of collet, the spring won't compress, and there will be a slight taper between the inside of the collet and the bit shank as well as the collet and the taper inside the router, causing only partial engagement*
teksatan4699, Thanks for pointing that out, it's important to be aware of the different collet styles and how they should be used with router bits. It's essential to have the correct understanding of how to insert the bit into the collet to ensure optimal performance and safety. Remember to always follow the manufacturer's guidelines for your specific collet type. Thanks for sharing brother!
Great video my friend !
LouisDesChamps, glad to hear this one helped brother!
Actually you dont have the long bit i want.. LOL I ordered the rough cut one but the other ones out of stock.. I put in my email so holler when you got em!! thanks for the videos
ClinToneCust23, sorry that one bit is out of stock! Once it is back in, you will be the first to know!
Great video. Very informative
Glad to hear this one helped you brother!
Great information
TheVideotoaster, glad you liked this one my friend.
Many thanks good practise to follow
Pod, you are so welcome!
Thanks Garrett! Great info!
Rick, you are so welcome brother!
Rick, you are so welcome brother!
Good Advice Thanks
CB1000, no problem. I am happy to help!
If you bottom out the bit in the tool, there is the possibility that when you go to tighten the collet, you cant get it tight enough as the bit has no room to move UP as you tighten the bit.
Stacy, very true my friend. You make a very good point with that one.
@@IDCWoodcraft Keep up the good work, everyone of every skill level can use the information you have been putting out so thank you for that.