As others have pointed out, it's not "He who waits...", it's "The One Who Waits". Opens the discussion up quite a bit. I'm constantly impressed by how Ellie constantly challenges my understanding of things, bringing up points I probably would never have thought of on my own. It's interesting to watch that brain at work. Also, I'd like to take a moment to mention today is Bernard Cribbens' birthday.
I have a mini theory that the one who waits is the person who picked up the master in the golden tooth, it doesn’t have much to stand on but the fact anyone would want to resurrect or bring him back means that they have to be at least slightly villainous
And while she is startled by the police box disappearing, that doesn't mean she a blue box TARDIS either. It sets up for it being a Timelord. I know who it isn't. It's not the Master/Missy. The Master is too tied in with that TARDIS to not automatically assume that's it. Also, she's obviously been there a while, probably falling over the Master/Missy's timeline. Never a good thing. Susan would be a great family connection. Romana would be fun!
@@vapoetI would say romana over Susan cause we don’t know Susan’s backstory for all we know she isn’t really his granddaughter we know more about romana and with no returning villains in the next season as Russell has stated that rules out the rani or her 4th wall breaking could just be a nond to when the William hartnell wished the viewers a merry Christmas cause the episode happened to air on Christmas Day that year
She was annoyed and unaware of what the Police Box was early on, and seemed to become aware of what is going on in conjunction of Ruby's introduction, it is an odd parallel awakening.
I just see her as a new Jackie. Similar scenes where Ncuti leans in the doorway and almost flirts with Cherry, vs Ecclestons Doctor standing in the doorway to Jackie
In Water of Mars, we have the above quote about THE FLOOD: "Water is patient. Water just waits" The Toymaker then references "The one who waits" We now have Mrs Flood who sits waiting outside her house.
My theory of who Mrs Flood is.. Mrs Flood said she hasn't seen a Police Box since the sixties. One of the episodes, the Abbey Road/Beatles one, is based in the sixties. Mrs Flood will help Ruby and/or the Doctor in that episode, where she'll be known as Miss 'somebody' and meet Me Flood at the end of the episode. That's why she's not fazed when the TARDIS materialises. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk
I think Mrs. Flood doesn't recognize the police box as a Tardis at the beginning because she's never seen the Doctor's Tardis before. It's not until she sees the police box "disappear" (go back in time) that she recognizes it as a Tardis. So, I think she knows what a Tardis is but doesn't recognize this as the Doctor's Tardis. Though, I'll allow that she might recognize the Doctor once she meets him as she's observing the Tardis.
Or: Mrs Flood could have her own episode at some point which took place between the start and end of the special. You can do that sort of thing if you have a time machine!
That fact that she knows what a TARDIS is, but didn't immediately recognize the police box as a TARDIS could mean that she's seen a TARDIS with a working chameleon circuit. Something the Doctor's TARDIS hasn't had in a looonng time
It's no coincidence that mrs flood was also the woman in the Sarah Jayne adventures either so if they are connected makes sense why she knows of alien tech
Notice the boots on Ruby, and the boots that the cloaked woman was wearing. Yep, "pre-destination paradox". Oh, Hell, I'm agreeing with Sean? And the red nails? Is Mrs. Flood Ruby's mother, Ruby as well, AND brings back the Master? My head is spinning...
Just a hunch but I feel it in my guts that Ruby Sunday being a "foundling child" will 100% weave itself into the supernaturally-enhanced and superstition-charged angle on this chapter of the Who-niverse. In folklore foundling children are (for good or for ill) often assumed to be touched by fate or the fey. Goblins are classic fey creatures. The Toymaker's incursion from his universe could be seen as meddling from an arch-fey entity. The Toymaker's promise that his minions would be coming suggests we'll see more fairytale and folkloric content over the course of the season.
Like a changling? I thought about this early on. About babies being abandoned for the fairies in about 16th century culture to be swapped for their own baby because they believed the baby is a changling? This would support the theory that the mother is from the 16th century and travelled - eg the character played my Susan Twist
The doctor doesn't believe in Folklore, because he is a man of science - Rewatch Capaldi's era - When He meets Robin Hood - He's just a fairytale and doesn't exist - And is a Robot put there to distract the Locals from their Problems. There's a scientific explanation for everything, such as Ghosts and Vampires and Werewolves. These Goblins can't possibly be real Goblins. More an Alien Race that Look like Goblins - except the King who is a Giant Troll
@@worldofsurspherea5187 the doctor is a man of many possibilities. He is very open minded. The toy maker and the toymaker realm is folklore. Folk lore is only folklore and superstition because it was of that time and it’s not been explained by any reason or obvious explanation so it has become folklore. This doctor accepted goblins who could be there because of chance or language of luck and coincidence. The 14th doctor said he had invoked superstition at the end of the universe. If he didn’t believe in Folk-Lore why use salt anyway- you surround evil things in salt or erect a barrier of salt that evil can’t cross is a superstition- it comes from folklore yet the doctor did this. So I’m afraid the doctor does very much believe in folklore. Also for the mum to abandon the child believing it to be a changeling it isn’t the doctor who is doing the believing - it is the mother’s belief. The changeling belief was very much a concept in 15/ 16th century especially in Scotland and Wales. Parents who may have had a sickly child left the child by a fairy hill or place thinking that their child was changling and that the wee folk would take it and replace the child with their real baby.When this didn’t happen and the child died they consoled themselves that it was the changeling child that died. This was belief system that people lived by - a superstition or mythology if you like. It’s not rational but if a whole culture has this belief system that’s what they do - when time passes like 500 years it becomes a form of folklore. Why would the doctor not believe in what the people do. He would be rational but having already met the goblins taking two babies I think maybe now he would believe in the folklore. And yes maybe they are an alien race just like fairies. That concept has been explored in many sci fi and sci fi fantasy books so it would be interesting to see how RTD explores it 🙂
Things we know: RTD has said that the mystery of Ruby's parents will wound through this season, both her mother and father. This would make me think Mrs Flood isn't related to Ruby. Also, the end where Mrs Flood looks down the camera and asks about never seeing a TARDIS before, is a shot repeated through the episode. When the Doctor and Ruby are in the goblin ship, the Doctor is staring down the camera to look for the right rope. It's done again when The Doctor and Ruby are looking at the pictures of the other foster kids on the fridge. Are these connected? And did you catch Ncuiti's "10ism"? 32 minute mark, Ruby asks the Doctor if the goblins are the cause of all accidents, the Doctor replies with a very David Tennant style "Oooohhhhhh". Perfect. Just perfect.
My theory is that Ruby is the doctor's daughter, and the woman who dropped Ruby off at the church was River Song. We know that River had heard rumors that the last time she and the Doctor would see each other was the night they spent at the Singing Towers of Darillium. Of course, a night on Darillium lasts for 24 years. Perhaps, after their night was over, River discovered she was pregnant. She could make a fairly good guess that she was likely to die without seeing the Doctor again, or at least without seeing a version of the Doctor who remembered their night on Darillium. She couldn't risk informing an earlier Doctor about the baby because of SPOILERS. Worried that if she kept the baby with her, the baby would share her fate, she decided to leave her at a church on Christmas Eve during a time period the Doctor was likely to meet her. Why would that be likely? Because the Tardis ALWAYS takes the Doctor where he needs to be. She might have trusted the Tardis to take a post-Darillium Doctor to meet Ruby at a point in time when Ruby needed him. The reason Davina McCall couldn't find any relatives of Ruby's is because Amy was unable to have any children after Melody. While Ruby's DNA would include some Time Lord, perhaps that was why Davina seemed so freaked out about the search results. While I think my theory is unlikely to turn out to be true, wouldn't it be awesome if it was? The part I most want to see is Ruby reintroducing the Doctor to her Mom and Gram and telling them he is actually her biological father. That would, of course, be quite confusing. Ncuti Gatwa is only 31 and would appear too young to have a 19-year-old daughter. Oh, and there is the fact that Ruby does not appear to be of mixed race, much less Black. “It's really not that complicated,” the Doctor would say, “I spent most of my life as a white guy, well, many white guys and one white woman.” I would really like to know what Ellie thinks of this theory. Before you answer, though, realize that if true, it would require, at the very least, a River Song/Alex Kingston cameo and perhaps more.
Absolutely love your idea as that is what i think too!! And one of the other doctor’s could easily have fathered Ruby cause remember…… anything can happen when it comes to the “Doctors”!!! You should be a writer as I especially love your first paragraph that is so well detailed as to how it could be!!!
You can never tell about people by their outsides. I’m directly descended from 3 Native Nations (incl 2 tribal chiefs), Harald Fairhair, and a slave from Ghana.
Ruby is a Disney princess, this is why she can do an improv song so easily. 100% this will be the plot twist of the season. She comes from the toy maker's universe 😶
My theory is Mrs. Flood at the beginning/middle of the episode was an older version of Ruby, but didn't know what the Tardis was because younger Ruby had not yet decided to go with The Doctor. After younger Ruby decides to go with The Doctor is when Mrs. Flood develops memories of travelling in the Tardis, changes her tune, and starts acting like she knows.
One of my bigger complaints of the Chibnall era was his inability to “show not tell”. Any sense of what was going on came from direct dialogue saying “this is going on”. In stark contrast, we have the miserable Sunday family sans Ruby. RTD wanted to show what Ruby meant to them, so he set up these few bleak moments that said so much without blatant narration.
Chibnall could have had an amazing moment where we get to see the master actually wreak havoc on gallifrey so we could get an understanding of what happened, except exactly as you put it, we just got a lecture on how he destroyed gallifrey and that was that, chibnall had so many moments to expand on what he was telling us but never bothered
My thoughts Mrs Flood is Susan. As the Tardis has a perception filter- she would have been affected by that at first. Until she saw the Tardis disappear and then she was shocked. It made her remember and realise. If you google Susan from tardis fandom you will see this story “ When the First Rani trapped several of the Doctor's incarnations and companions in a time loop in London's East End, Susan found herself outside the Queen Victoria pub in 1973, where she encountered the Sixth Doctor for the first time. After initially failing to recognise him, Susan called out for Ian and Barbara, then asked, "Where's Grandfather? My Doctor? The original?" (TV: Dimensions in Time)”. Who was the landlady of a certain pub but Anita Dobson. 1973 - 50 years ago. Also Susan’s birthday is given as 23 June 1948 just one year older than Anita Dobson. Susan married an EC Commissioner name not given. She had a daughter and a son. She became a widow. She believed her daughter’s boyfriend at one time was a younger version of the doctor regenerated. Could that daughter be the Susan twist character who was in two episodes who seems to time travel? And may be Ruby’s mum? Look at Ruby’s blanket? It’s very rustic and old fashioned. Was ruby abandoned due to thinking she was a changling so left for the fairies as in a mid 16th century belief? Was the woman who left her truly her parent or did the doctor assume it at the time and this will be corrected later? I think the lady who dropped her off will turn out to be Mrs Flood but won’t be her mother. The theme is about lost family or abandoned children- Susan was abandoned by the doctor on earth. In 1973 she was looking for him. He said he has no one. The junk yard was in Shoreditch London which is in the East End. Anita Dobson is speaking with an East End accent. She says have you never seen a Tardis before- a Tardis not the tardis so she’s seen more than one. Susan was with her grandfather the doctor when they selected a tardis to run from Gallifrey- she’s seen more than one. Also in the same article Susan has met her step- grandmother River Song so maybe that’s why she’s Mrs Flood but I think it’s playing on words from “ the waters from Mars story” - “ water is patient- water just waits “ talking about the Flood. So is Mrs Flood the person who waits? And was Mr Flood the EC Commissioner she married or is the surname in honour or variation of her step - grandmothers name River Song/ Melody Pond? Just my thoughts 🤷♀️
The reference to rope and luck as a "different form of physics" could be a nod to the Carrionites of the Shakespeare Code, where the Tenth Doctor says the same thing about the power of words. And, since the Carrionites in that episode are tied to the "Dark Ages" of the universe when magic and the supernatural were the rule, this season might tie into the Flux, since that story changed/expanded the how and why that period ended and the laws of physics stabilized, and the Temple of Atropos was damaged in it. Maybe what fix was made to the Temple at the end wasn't perfect, or maybe something slipped through the cracks before it was applied. But it might be a clue to the identity of the villain for the season or even the entire era, the one even the Toymaker was afraid of.
@@GoldenwhitewingsIt certainly seems like the damage the Flux caused is now allowing things from other forms of reality to slip into the Doctor's universe, based on my theory that the Goblin King was a focus for the energies that allowed the Goblin ship to exists and his death is what caused the ship to fold in on itself as it returned to whatever place of origin it originally had.
I'm surprised you didn't pick up on the Doctor having a different shirt from when he went into the Tardis, and when Ruby went in. Are we going to find out that he went somewhere in between?
Here's my stab-in-the-dark guess about Mrs Flood. I reckon it's when she saw the TARDIS dematerialise in front of her eyes that she realized what it was, suggesting that she's familiar with Timelord technology, but not with the Doctor himself. That would to me rule out anything to do with the Master, the Rani, or River Song. Given that RTD is a massive Doctor Who fan and has already brought some extra-canonical stories and characters into canon, I wouldn't put it past him to find a way to include Iris Wildthyme -- a Timelord who first appears as an eccentric old woman who has based herself in contemporary London. Not only that, but she is sometimes written as if she is aware that she is a character in a TV show, so it would make sense for her to break the fourth wall.
And I heard that she is from the audio. Also, I hope Mr Frobisher, a shapeshifter that got stuck in penguin form (at least that'a what I understoo), does end up joining the TV. Although, I can wait for season 2 for that. They can use a puppet and cgi like they did with The Meep.
One theory of mine is that she known about TARDIS before, but maybe she had never seen it in action or its appearence. She saw TARDIS fadding in front of her and dropped her bags, in shock, she may have some material, like journals and diaries, left by someone and she related its content after that, realizing that it was all true. Maybe she heard stories when she was a child, she heard about a man from the stars. She's always in front of home, wouldn't you if you were expecting someone who could arrive anytime? Specially in Christimas that is when stranger activities occurs in the Whoniverse. Anyway, I'm excited to discover more about that and I found this channel recentely and just loved your content. Thank you and happy new year!
I was so excited when I saw Anita Dobson as Mrs Flood, but I realised she wasn’t the only Eastenders actor in the episode. Cherry Sunday was played by Angela Wynter AKA Yolande Trueman, and other people pointed out that the woman with the pushchair who almost got hit by the snowman was Libby in Eastenders.
One of my favorite scenes in the Christmas special was when the Doctor was standing in Cherry's bedroom door. Gave me vibes of when the 9th Doctor met Jackie. I'd like to see Mrs. Flood be Romana.
Mrs Flood knows what a Tardis is, but she did not recognize it as a Tardis until it disappeared before her eyes...... Romana would have recognized it as the Doctor's Tardis........ (so would have any other Time Lord who knows the Doctor...
@@Rasyr But she was complaining to the neighbors about it which would mean she is hiding who she is from them. Also, she acknowledges the Doctor as a busy man like she knows who he is and points Ruby in the direction of the Tardis.
@@ronaldnelson6692 She did not know that it was a Tardis before it disappeared as she was coming up the road with her groceries. The shock and surprise on her face when that happens tells us that. To me, this suggests two possibilities 1) She has encountered a Tardis before, but not this one - unless the one she encountered was a version of the Doctor after a Bi-Regeneration happened 2) She has heard tales of "the Doctor and his blue box" but not realized it was a Police Box until she saw it disappear. I also think that: 1) She is not a Time Lord from Gallifrey (she could be an older version of Jenny, the Doctor's Daughter - who knows WHAT a Tardis is, but who never actually saw one) 2) That she does not have any harmful intent towards the Doctor
I wonder if Mrs. Flood could be Romana. Her second incarnation, as played by Lalla Ward often wore a pink outfit. The fact that Mrs. Flood's character seems to change in the later scene, could it actually be someone else who has taken her form, much as Romana took on the form of Princess Astra in 'Destiny Of The Daleks' ?
.. because FD was where Rose went back to /change/ time. What appears to be happening here (at least one of the propositions) is that Ruby goes back in time to /fulfil/ the past. In fact, it could be said that the Reapers would come if she/didn't/ go back to create the stable time loop. Either that or the Woman didn't touch her before leaving her, only touching her when she was protected to a certain extent by being in the proximity of something older than either of them, to wit the Church.
On who’s carrying the baby, we’ve assumed that the baby has literally just been born. In fact, they could have been several days old. Without further evidence, the birth date would likely have been recorded as that day.
And she may come from other reality.. pther universe, from future anything... They didn't find her DNA match in present time... And the dialogues specifically pushed the point that its impossible...
@@shubhounofficial5125 while it's possible for Ruby to be from the future, Davina specifically says we are "hoping" to find blah blah blah then she mentions we can't work miracles. Meaning there IS a possibility even if that possibility is incredibly small that they won't find anyone. Her family would have had to have given a DNA sample for them to be found and if they hadn't given any DNA for whatever reason. They won't be found through traditional means. I.e DNA
If it was so easy to find literally everyone with DNA Davina would not have said we are hoping. She would have said. We can find them but assuming nothing happened to them/they don't want to get in contact then we can connect you back with your biological family
I love that they're giving us more mysteries to follow! When he was looking at the potential mother walking away, I honestly hoped he wasn't going to go run up to her. As much as we want answers, part of the fun is speculating and theorising. If they gave us all the answers upfront, we wouldn't have as much to talk about. Haven't been this excited about Doctor Who in a long time.
Maybe we will never know who the hooded person was who dropped her off. If it is a parallel to how the doctor treated the Timeless Child information in the flux, then putting the fob watch in the Tardis instead of learning the truth from it is what stopped him from running to the hodded person and seeing who it is. This could be how they frame the timeless child moving forward. That the portal and origin doesnt matter but being found and the family that raised you up is more important than the person who abandoned you. Another big issue with Ruby being related to the Doctor from Jenny would be growing up with two hearts and no one freaking out about it. Since they also ran her DNA for the failed family search, there would be two issues with that as well. Either no matches happened because simply there is no match (which the show suggested was the answer) or she doesnt have human DNA so there was a zero percent chance of finding a match. I feel like the UNIT crew we have seen so far would have some kind of automated alert system if alien DNA was entered into one of those 23 and me searches. I did have to look up what age Rose was in season 1 of New Who. It is a coincidence that both Rose and Ruby are both 19 years old when they first start their adventure with the Doctor. It does seem odd that they bring up the idea of coincidences in this episode. So to end with a wild theory for fun.... if they want to show Ruby's mom dropping her off the let it be Rose Tyler. Rose whould have had a daughter with the one hearted 10th Doctor in the parallel universe!!!!! This would get around the issue of Ruby being realted amd having one heart while weaving in the concept of a child being dropped off in different universe like the Doctor in the Timeless Child.
There are too many hints to Rose. Even RTD saying Ruby was the first one since Rose to do the full circle of the Tartis to me was like "why is that important to know? Are you trying to drop hints at how like her mother Ruby is?! " to me she looks like Rose a little even. Also it's a stretch but since they are leaning into fairy tale stuff (goblins) there is the connection of the name Rose-Red (snow white obviously got to be more famous) but rose /red=Ruby
New theory: not just a crone (helpful witch) but a Fey! Stronger than a toymaker, and it fits the fantasy and spooky. Beyond Baba Yaga or Feyqueen. There is also no time at all or hundreds of years in the Feyrealm. The one who waits could be waiting in there and pop out for a minute (century) to check on her favourites. also, Fey insert changelings, switch babies. Ruby could have been dropped off at a church by a fey. She could have a Fairy Godmother.
It's not that Mrs Flood didn't know what a TARDIS was at the beginning, but that she didn't recognise it as a TARDIS until it dematerialised in front of her when she returned with her shopping (and dropped it all). So she knows what a TARDIS is but doesn't know the Doctor's one until then. Bright .. but still stupid enough to do shopping on Christmas Eve.
I was very amused when the two of you were feeling old because of how young Ruby is, and that you remember well 2004! I remember well the very first Doctor Who episode when it first aired back in the early 60s! I am old, but still young at heart, and a life long Whovian! I am really looking forward to the episode about the Beatles, and a dive into the swinging 60s, I'm sure it will bring back a lot of memories! I just hope the get the vibe of the times right!
THANKS for this, Ellie and Sean!!!! Oh, so you guys feel old?!? HA!!! I remember watching "The Five Doctors" when it first aired in America ( *before* it aired in the U.K.! Look it up, folks!) and talking with a fellow fan about how weak we felt Five was compared to Four! It was our first taste of Five and his companions because in 1983 Four hadn't regenerated in front of us New Jersey public television viewers yet!
I vividly remember the horror (from behind the sofa) when Pertwee “died”. I was a bit too young to remember the one before that, so Pertwee is “my doctor” as in, the one I got to know the show through. So y’all making me feel old ;)
22:11 I don't think Mrs. Flood is the Rani, and I don't think the Rani is coming back this season (between the tease of "the Boss," and the Toymaker's legions, and the mystery of Ruby's parentage, getting the Rani involved seems like that would be too much going on for once season). However, I definitely think we'll get the Rani back during Ncuti's era, mostly because we also have the return of a companion who's faced her before (Mel.) I could see a lot of potential in the Rani as the overarching villain for *next* season, pulling strings behind the scenes like the Master/Harold Saxon in s3
This is the only piece of Who I've ever watched again the next day. Sensational. Really loved dancing and singing along for once. I've always wanted the Doctor to really let loose!
Just going to point out - unless RTD just wrote a bad script, there definitely is a reveal of who Ruby's mum is on the way, because the Doctor's voiceover says that no one knew who her mom was UNTIL that night.
The Goblins being magical could be another aspect of the Toy Maker, minions, clingers on, creatures from the fringe of reality and fantasy, so all linked up.
Sadly John Barrowman has been fired by The BBC. 10 years ago, he showed his dick on set although he apologised. I know Noel Clark, the one that played Mickey, did the same. Although look at Neil Patrick Harrison the moment there are accusations of sexual harassment against him. At least I heard there is. It doesn't look that great on the BBC side.
If you noticed the opening scene with the doctor was different from the ending one as he was crying in the opening as well so I assume this is going to come back later in the season.
The mother doesn't look back or hesitate, it suggests that she already knows that the child will get taken in safely and have a good childhood, so part of the answer of Ruby' s mother will be "it's all timey wimey"
I am betting ruby dropped herself off there and the reason there is no record of her parents is that she was born in the future and had to take herself back too avoid a paradox
@@matthouston15 whoever left the baby almost certainly knew already that the priest discovered the child at midnight as she did not see the need to wrap her up ... Perhaps later on the series we will see how it was engineered that the priest came outside at midnight (I didn't see either the doctor or the woman ringing any bell at the church door..)
@@danthemeegs8751 I'm not so sure, it could be that if he tackled the mother then Ruby would never have had her loving upbringing, and her adopted family would never have gone on to foster 32 other children... after all the Doctor had gone back in time to correct the timeline.. Perhaps leaving the child at the church was a "Fixed Point in Time" that couldn't be meddled with, we saw what happened if fixed points are disrupted after Lake Silenceo and when Rose tried to save her father ((oh dear I'm spending faaaarrrr too much time thinking about Doctor Who 😁))
@@AngelaH2222 its common practice for churches fire stations and hospitals to do checks for abandoned babies at regular intervals so that's not realy strange
Those gloves would have been really helpful back in the day for preventing Rose from getting sucked into a parallel dimension forever…. I think that as part of his self healing/rehabilitation has been inventing gadgets that would have saved the Companions he has lost in tragic ways to ensure that future companions never suffer the same fate.
Her personality changes after seeing the TARDIS disappear. Very much like the Chameleon Arch and how it affects the Master in Utopia. She’s a Time Lord.
At one point Mrs Flood had no idea what a Tardis is, and then at the end of the episode she knew. Does this go along with the reference to ‘Mavity’ in every episode - implying that the doctor’s intervention is always subtly changing time?
My Mrs Flood theory is it's just timey whimey. Her character will probably show up as a young woman in the Beatles episode and she will learn about the TARDIS then. It's just a fun thing rather than huge.
I don't know if anyone else has suggested this but, think Ruby Sunday is the Master/Missy and Mrs Flood, Flood Gate, Immortality Gate, is a Disciple of Saxon, the woman who left Ruby/the Master/Missy, at the church as a baby. She's watching over her until she is old enough to know the truth or has a 'fob watch device that will restore the mind of who she really is at some point.
Probably because I’ve seen it many, many times, the entire plot gave me Labyrinth vibes. Of course the Henson muppets looking like the goblins from Labyrinth helped that. The music, the goblin king wanting to eat the human baby (we don’t know what Jareth’s intentions were)… yeah, Labyrinth. Am I alone here?
Thank you for the reminder. I couldn't remember the name of the film. The Goblin King in Labyrinth was played by the late David Bowie. You are not the only one who was thinking of Labyrinth whilst watching the Christmas special of Dr Who. 😂
Mrs Flood. Has something changed? Yes- the TARDIS moved! When she was complaining about it, it was just blocking the pavement outside her house. Also- she seemed to genuinely ask who the Doctor was when he first turns up at the house. But then he nipped off and back a couple of times- and then parked across the road. It seems to be at this point that she realises it's a TARDIS. Because she didn't realise it was a TARDIS, and apparently didn't recognise the Doctor straight away, I don't think she is a TimeLady herself- but has clearly met one, or someone similar, before.
Anyone who knows a old school West indian/Afro Caribbean Matriarch has had conversations like those with Cherry Sunday. Brilliantly written character. It felt to me like the Goblins were partly sidlineed to give the The Doctor and Ruby time to shine. Perhaps it was deemed unnecessary to flesh them out. because everyone knows what Goblins are? Would agree that they perhaps could Have been fleshed out to put a whoniverse stamp on them. With Mrs Flood what I found interesting was that she said "A TARDIS" rather than "The TARDIS," which would suggest Gallifreyan origin, or at least knowledge of timlord society. Also, I believe the only Timelords have demonstrated 4th wall awareness in Canon?
I think Mrs. Flood knew what a TARDIS is, she just didn’t know the Doctor’s TARDIS. I think she is a Time Lord who has somehow survived and has been hiding out on Earth as a regular human.
The more I think about the one who waits, the more my imagination tells me “Why not 14?” 15 is the product of BiGeneration, shedding the guilt and the shadows of his past and returning to the carefree adventurerer just trying to help wherever he can, not to atone for anything, but because he cares. But that pain doesn’t disappear. He can manage it better, but 14 wore it on his sleeves. The Valeyard is a product of The Doctor’s darkest traits, created “Somewhere between your 13th and final regeneration” a bit of a gap, granted, but it fits. Maybe part of 14’s recovery that helps 15’s “rehab out of order” is a mental breakdown
My CRAZY theory about Mrs. Flood is, what if she's the Doctor's actual mother from the other universe, and that she's also Ruby's mother, making the Doctor and Ruby siblings.
The word foundling can be heard a lot in the show “the Mandalorian” I don’t know if it’s why but it’s quite possible that this could be a major part in the return of this rather archaic word
I feel like this is an opportunity to bring back the best villain of dr who, the trickster - there's a mysterious hooded figure and the goblins feel like the tricksters brigade, when they remove ruby from the timeline
It was one of the worst Doctor Who episodes of recent memory too me. 40 years of fandom, living through the wilderness years... And even loving the specials. But that was not enjoyable. I didn't like Ncuti's portrayal of the Doctor. Sure he's attractive and energetic, but that seems about it. Little presence, lack of gravitas, and basically turned into the gay best friend. That's not The Doctor. If that doesn't improve I'm pretty sure we will see ratings dropping as the moderates and more conservative viewers switch off.
Just rewatched the episode, Mrs. Flood definitely knows something. She just didn't realize the police box was a TARDIS. But she knows what a TARDIS is for sure.
Could Mrs. Flood be Susan Foreman's mum? I'd be happy if she was a new character in the Doctor's story. And if/when they bring Jenny, or Susan, back I'd want them to at least start as themselves. As always, thank you all so very much for the videos. And hope you have a joyous 2024!
OK, I can top that. The first doctoror that I fully remember was 3 (Jon Pertwee), although I was probably watching before then because my Mum has been watching since the beginning. I do remember peering around doorways to watch because the monsters were really scary when you're that little!
I want *mysteries* , not mystery boxes. The difference is that we actually have a chance of working out a mystery ourselves, whereas a mystery box pulls a solution out of the writer's @$$ with no real groundwork, intending to be something no one could have expected. I want the writer to put in the work to craft a puzzle we could actually work out if we're clever and paying attention.
I think that Brian May's wife Anita Dobson is the Rani and she had done like the Doctor and Master has done in the past and locked her memory up at the beginning of the story and that's why she didn't no what the blue box was at the beginning of the story. But by the end of the story she knew exactly what a TARDIS is as she got her memory back. It would make sense as Kate O'Mara. Unfortunately Died: 30 March 2014.
It is possible at the beginning Mrs flood didn't know what the TARDIS was. The she saw it move multiple times during the episode. At that point she probably realised what it was, she might know of the TARDIS but might not have recognised it.
She didnt recognise it as a blue police box but she recognised it as a tardis from it disappearing. My guess is she is a time lady who isn't familiar with the doctor. Whoever it is though, Aninta Dobson plays her so well and likeably that i hope she sticks around for a while.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isnt River Song a Moffat exclusive character? Also- in this video you guys mention how people theorized Ms. Flood is River, but never talked about the name connection of Pond, river, and flood (You did mention that other connection with the name). I find the river connection much more convincing with those names.
Also, I don't think they mentioned the name would likely be Carol Flood either. Moffat is returning for at least one story in season 2! Or at least heavily implied to be.
Feeling old compared to Ruby, yes, Ellie? Now you know exactly how we feel! Just joking, I've enjoyed my "elderly age" (40 to 60) much more than I enjoyed my youth.
@@TheGreatLordDufusalso I see many NuWho fan screeching about the Valeyard - clearly they do not understand his Lore and current NuWho Lore are totally impractical. As the is written in Classic Who a time lord can only regenerate 12 times with his 13th life his final. The TC says nahhh the Doctor is different and can regenerate many many times without hitting a cut off. In relation to the Valeyard he should of arrived by now - but no as 11th got a whole new Regeneration cycle (so I'm assuming 12 regens like the Classic rules) then TC spreads it arse cheeks and dumps on the whole thing 😂
@@Mark-nh2hs Matt Smith's Doctor was granted a whole new "regeneration cycle", which like yourself I assume means an extra full set of regenerations. So the Valeyard could be any time between 13 and 25. Between "twelfth and final incarnation" wasn't it, not "twelfth and thirteenth"? Plus, can the Tennant 14th Doctor still regenerate again, as he's still around? I assume not and that his regeneration energy (a nuWho phrase I believe) is used up, but it potentially adds a whole new branch of Doctors where the timeline could include the Valeyard without any TC nonsense.
My theory on Mrs Flood is that she going to be a new character that the Doctor & Ruby meet in the upcoming series as a much younger person (the Beetles episode would kind of fit age wise if she is older than she appears). She obviously knows more about Ruby than initially let on which is why she encouraged Ruby to go into the TARDIS - setting the wheels of timey-wimey in motion
Yeah, I first heard that idea in the comments, and the “not seen one since the 60s” line combined with there being a Beatles ep on the way, does feel like a RTD kind of tease.
OK, here is my Mrs. Flood theory. She knows what a TARDIS is, but, tellingly, she doesn't recognize the Doctor's TARDIS until she sees it disappear (as shown by her being shocked when it does even though she knows what a TARDIS is). Which tells me she knows about Timelords, but she doesn't know about the Doctor. Which kind of leaves out anyone we have met before (unless there is a character I don't know about that fits the bill). I don't think she is there because of the Doctor (though she might be there because of Ruby), she was there for some other reason when the Doctor, by coincidence, showed up. Which is why the episode is all about coincidence goblins.
Earlier in the episode Mrs Flood does say she hasn't seen one (police box) for 50 years. And her smile at the end, for a split second is less warm and more conniving.
She says 'haven't you seen a TARDIS before ?' and is described as breaking the 4th wall ? So, to whom is she speaking ? If she is talking to the audience, it'd be pointless because of course WE know what a TARDIS is. Is she talking to Abdul ?
It was when Ruby walked around the tardis. She spoke about it being 'a great big thing' and 'not seen one for 50 years' but RTD plants seeds here there and everywhere. Some come to fruition, some don't. But the possibilities are endless.... because its Dr Who.
Mrs Flood is probably going to be a new Wilfred type character replacement or I read in another channel comments someone was saying she could be a Bigeneration of the First Doctor - I hope not, but being NuWho anything is possible
I think she's River's daughter or Amy's daughter. And the mother of Ruby. Therefore, making Ruby the Doctor's granddaughter or niece. I haven't seen many people mention that the same older woman who was in the Newton scene was in the club scene and yelled at the band.
I noticed I think the woman you mentioned is going to be Ruby’s mum. Hence no DNA Ruby’s mum comes from the past. Maybe she thought Ruby was a changling and left her for the fairies so she would get her own baby back - this was a belief in the 16th century In many parts of England/ Scotland/ Wales etc so people would leave their babies out at night especially if it was a sickly baby thinking it was a changling and believe that the fairies/ or little people would bring their own baby back - they obviously didn’t and the baby died. But families comforted themselves that it was the changling baby that died. Maybe this is why Ruby was abandoned but the person could not completely do this so left the baby outside a church which was going to have midnight mass so knew she would be found. I don’t think the cloaked person is the mother just the person who drops the baby off. It would not be River song. her story is done snd this is a soft reboot. i think RTD is going down a whole new area. I think she is connected to the doctor but i think through Susan. I think this woman is connected to Mrs Flood. I think Mrs flood is Susan and this woman could be Susan’s daughter and therefore Ruby is Mrs flood biological granddaughter and thats ruby’s connection to the doctor. But then is Susan going to end up being connected to the doctor due to the timeless child?
@@All_Things_ACE how do you think she got from 1666 to 2023? The Doctor does say the mother was the one who dropped her off though. It could be a misdirect of course. I'm not so sure on River being completely over. Mel is back and it seems like RTD wants to better meld the show together from all eras. Part of the reason the fandom is so fractured is the lack of cohesiveness. I don't think River would play a big part but rather be there to setup a next generation type of thing. Her daughter, Susan, and Jenny on adventures with The Doctor would have one foot in classic, one foot in Nuwho, and Ruby as her daughter leading the way for NuNuWho! The mother could also be 13. It would be a big reveal but Jodie was pregnant during filming and could explain 15's bad luck comment. That said, I do like your idea that her mother thought it was a changeling. Would be a good mix of historical realism and I'm almost certain the ending of the arc will be Newton becoming obsessed with hidden codes in the Bible towards the end of his life to fit with history. Honestly, there's so much thrown at us this episode it's really impossible to guess. I do wonder if some of it is a big misdirect and Lulu will end up being the important baby. Maybe the Timeless Child? Either way, I'm excited!
@@CharmedPop at the moment I don’t think we have been shown that - but if the Jonathan Groff is the new Jack Harkness type character there is a possible answer there! I think this lady is another mystery box character and I think the answer lies in the line from the Tardis fandom- Susan thought her daughter’s new boyfriend was a younger doctor regenerated into a younger person. What if she had been wrong and it was someone else who could time travel? Who maybe had a form of Tardis? I think Russell is doing a huge tease and we have only seen just a fraction of this puzzle. I think it’s going to be much bigger than we think and that there are going to be people involved in this who we have not met yet. I like your idea that lulu will end up being the important baby - maybe Vinder and Bel’s baby from the flux? But somehow the timeless children arc is all connected. Did you notice that in the club scene the doctors and Ruby costumes mirrored each other exactly- tartan, white t shirt, two necklace chains, rings on fingers, black boots and of course black leather jackets, they are two peas from the same pod. Whether that makes them connected family wise or connected timeless child wise but it was another coincidence. Also Ruby was wearing tartan shorts when she left to go in the Tardis.
@@CharmedPop by the way I would love to see more River as I love River and I totally loved River with Capaldi. But I think River could actually get her own spin off called the Diary of River Song where she interacts with all the doctors and has her own adventures. I think that would work as well as a unit spin off and that could feature other characters like Jack Harkness, and a possibly Torchwood merge -so you get a crossover from there and unit. It would be like a Sarah Jane type adventure but this time using River Song. I think a lot of people who like River would be up for that.
Mrs. Flood could be someone the Doctor met during Classic Who (or later episodes set in the recent past). She might have seen this Tardis before but real police boxes are more common so she didn't make the connection. And the Doctor's Tardis looks different now.
Flood -> River -> River Song People saying it’s the Rani or the Master I think it’s Ruby from the future (or maybe her “mother” in the beginning scene is her from future dropping baby off)
re Mrs Flood not recognising the TARDIS early in the episode.... it could be that she knows what a TARDIS is but at that point in the episode hadnt seen THE DOCTORS TARDIS.
The first thing I thought of when baby Ruby was dropped off at the beginning of the episode was they will do a Red Dwarf with Lister and it will turn out Ruby is her own Mum.
Red Dwarf is a comedy show. In the real world being your own parent won't work since you need two parents and get half of your genetic inheritance from one and half from the other. Robert A Heinlein's "-All you zombies-" relatively recently filmed as "Predestination" gets around that by having the mother be impregnated by a sex-changed future version of herself but I think that would be rather too much even for Russell T Davies in Dr Who. It might be possible though to achieve the same effect by having Ruby travel into the future with the Doctor and somehow have her end up with a cloned baby of herself which is then left at the Church.
Dear Ellie and Sean, you missed the other elephant in the room/ episode. Mrs Merridew, Newton's housekeeper was watching Millie Gibson's Band and asked for Gaudete.
I’m thinking that she is the alternate old Amy that had to be left behind. Yah her eyes roll back into her head but the scene cuts to white right after. Pond, River, Flood. If she was smart enough to make a sonic probe in that episode I bet she can figure out time travel as well.
There is one rule: You can't travel on your own timeline. I bet Sunday will steal Tardis and travel to that moment, Doctor will be pissed angry on her.
I hadn't considered the granddaughter theory, but considering they're calling this season 1, it would be kind of a cool parallel to the true season 1 of the doctor traveling with his granddaughter... I don't think that's more evidence for that theory being true but I could definitely see that being the reasoning for them doing it.
My theory (which is more a hope than anything), is that Ruby's mum is Jenny from The Doctor's Daughter. This is mostly so we can see Georgia Tennant again. And so we have The Doctor travelling with his granddaughter again.
I really hope whoculture sees this comment. What if Mrs Flood is a character that the Whoniverse has mentioned in the classic era but we have never seen such as...the TERRIBLE ZODIN. Russell seems to be bringing obscure and forgotten characters like the Toymaker. I could see him do this. What do you think Ellie?
As others have pointed out, it's not "He who waits...", it's "The One Who Waits". Opens the discussion up quite a bit.
I'm constantly impressed by how Ellie constantly challenges my understanding of things, bringing up points I probably would never have thought of on my own. It's interesting to watch that brain at work.
Also, I'd like to take a moment to mention today is Bernard Cribbens' birthday.
I have a mini theory that the one who waits is the person who picked up the master in the golden tooth, it doesn’t have much to stand on but the fact anyone would want to resurrect or bring him back means that they have to be at least slightly villainous
Hear hear - a belated happy birthday to Bernard!
@@JamesMaund538 agree, or someone working for
maybe Jinx Monsoons character is waiting at Abbey Road with the Beatles for the doctor or something????@@JamesMaund538
I find it interesting she said "A" Tardis and not "The" Tardis. That implies she has knowledge of Galifreyen technology and knows there are multiple.
And while she is startled by the police box disappearing, that doesn't mean she a blue box TARDIS either. It sets up for it being a Timelord. I know who it isn't. It's not the Master/Missy. The Master is too tied in with that TARDIS to not automatically assume that's it. Also, she's obviously been there a while, probably falling over the Master/Missy's timeline. Never a good thing. Susan would be a great family connection. Romana would be fun!
@@vapoetI would say romana over Susan cause we don’t know Susan’s backstory for all we know she isn’t really his granddaughter we know more about romana and with no returning villains in the next season as Russell has stated that rules out the rani or her 4th wall breaking could just be a nond to when the William hartnell wished the viewers a merry Christmas cause the episode happened to air on Christmas Day that year
I hope it's Susan Foreman
@@vapoet the Rani? But wouldn't the Doctor have sensed a fellow Timelord?
She was annoyed and unaware of what the Police Box was early on, and seemed to become aware of what is going on in conjunction of Ruby's introduction, it is an odd parallel awakening.
I personally would describe Cherry Sunday as the new Wilfred Mott rather than Jacky Tyler.
💯 % this
Ew no, she’s a grumpy bish and nowhere near adorable or precious as Wilfred
She’s got a bit of both I feel. Definitely has some of Jackie’s sass
I just see her as a new Jackie. Similar scenes where Ncuti leans in the doorway and almost flirts with Cherry, vs Ecclestons Doctor standing in the doorway to Jackie
@@jeffswords645I didn’t feel like they were flirting. If anything I felt like he was super respectful to her like an elder.
In Water of Mars, we have the above quote about THE FLOOD: "Water is patient. Water just waits"
The Toymaker then references "The one who waits"
We now have Mrs Flood who sits waiting outside her house.
Oooh.. I like that!
You sir is the truest doctor who fan... 🙌
Interesting. Although WOM occurs in the future of Earth, there might be a big bad behind that
I think she’s the Toymaker’s sister, Hecuba. She’s the Queen of Time, so she can easily control things.
That did cross my mind, based on the name, but I wrote it off as being far-fetched.
My theory of who Mrs Flood is..
Mrs Flood said she hasn't seen a Police Box since the sixties.
One of the episodes, the Abbey Road/Beatles one, is based in the sixties.
Mrs Flood will help Ruby and/or the Doctor in that episode, where she'll be known as Miss 'somebody' and meet Me Flood at the end of the episode.
That's why she's not fazed when the TARDIS materialises.
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk
I like this!!
Small correction: she said she hasn't seen a police box in 50 years, which would be 1973.
Perfectly reasonable, we’ll have to wait. 😮
she said "A" Tardis and not "The" Tardis.. she knows the existence of other TARDIS'es?
@@shubhounofficial5125 😮
I think Mrs. Flood doesn't recognize the police box as a Tardis at the beginning because she's never seen the Doctor's Tardis before. It's not until she sees the police box "disappear" (go back in time) that she recognizes it as a Tardis. So, I think she knows what a Tardis is but doesn't recognize this as the Doctor's Tardis. Though, I'll allow that she might recognize the Doctor once she meets him as she's observing the Tardis.
Or: Mrs Flood could have her own episode at some point which took place between the start and end of the special. You can do that sort of thing if you have a time machine!
Is she Torchwood?
That fact that she knows what a TARDIS is, but didn't immediately recognize the police box as a TARDIS could mean that she's seen a TARDIS with a working chameleon circuit. Something the Doctor's TARDIS hasn't had in a looonng time
@@whysoserious8666if she was torchwood she would have instantly known that it was the doctors tardis
It's no coincidence that mrs flood was also the woman in the Sarah Jayne adventures either so if they are connected makes sense why she knows of alien tech
I bet Mrs Flood is Ruby and I bet the cloaked woman dropping off baby Ruby is also….Ruby
Oh my I hope you’re wrong lol Obviously just my opinion though honestly I think there is a chance you might be right
@@PKM25I hope I’m wrong too….but knowing Russell T Davies, this is what I’m thinking
Notice the boots on Ruby, and the boots that the cloaked woman was wearing. Yep, "pre-destination paradox".
Oh, Hell, I'm agreeing with Sean? And the red nails? Is Mrs. Flood Ruby's mother, Ruby as well, AND brings back the Master? My head is spinning...
So what your saying is in the words of the Kaiser Chiefs is:
Ruby, Ruby, Ruby, Ruby (ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah)
I thought the same
Just a hunch but I feel it in my guts that Ruby Sunday being a "foundling child" will 100% weave itself into the supernaturally-enhanced and superstition-charged angle on this chapter of the Who-niverse. In folklore foundling children are (for good or for ill) often assumed to be touched by fate or the fey. Goblins are classic fey creatures. The Toymaker's incursion from his universe could be seen as meddling from an arch-fey entity. The Toymaker's promise that his minions would be coming suggests we'll see more fairytale and folkloric content over the course of the season.
Amazing I love folklore
Like a changling? I thought about this early on. About babies being abandoned for the fairies in about 16th century culture to be swapped for their own baby because they believed the baby is a changling? This would support the theory that the mother is from the 16th century and travelled - eg the character played my Susan Twist
The doctor doesn't believe in Folklore, because he is a man of science - Rewatch Capaldi's era - When He meets Robin Hood - He's just a fairytale and doesn't exist - And is a Robot put there to distract the Locals from their Problems.
There's a scientific explanation for everything, such as Ghosts and Vampires and Werewolves.
These Goblins can't possibly be real Goblins. More an Alien Race that Look like Goblins - except the King who is a Giant Troll
@@worldofsurspherea5187 the doctor is a man of many possibilities. He is very open minded. The toy maker and the toymaker realm is folklore. Folk lore is only folklore and superstition because it was of that time and it’s not been explained by any reason or obvious explanation so it has become folklore. This doctor accepted goblins who could be there because of chance or language of luck and coincidence. The 14th doctor said he had invoked superstition at the end of the universe. If he didn’t believe in Folk-Lore why use salt anyway- you surround evil things in salt or erect a barrier of salt that evil can’t cross is a superstition- it comes from folklore yet the doctor did this. So I’m afraid the doctor does very much believe in folklore.
Also for the mum to abandon the child believing it to be a changeling it isn’t the doctor who is doing the believing - it is the mother’s belief. The changeling belief was very much a concept in 15/ 16th century especially in Scotland and Wales. Parents who may have had a sickly child left the child by a fairy hill or place thinking that their child was changling and that the wee folk would take it and replace the child with their real baby.When this didn’t happen and the child died they consoled themselves that it was the changeling child that died. This was belief system that people lived by - a superstition or mythology if you like. It’s not rational but if a whole culture has this belief system that’s what they do - when time passes like 500 years it becomes a form of folklore. Why would the doctor not believe in what the people do. He would be rational but having already met the goblins taking two babies I think maybe now he would believe in the folklore. And yes maybe they are an alien race just like fairies. That concept has been explored in many sci fi and sci fi fantasy books so it would be interesting to see how RTD explores it 🙂
Things we know: RTD has said that the mystery of Ruby's parents will wound through this season, both her mother and father. This would make me think Mrs Flood isn't related to Ruby. Also, the end where Mrs Flood looks down the camera and asks about never seeing a TARDIS before, is a shot repeated through the episode. When the Doctor and Ruby are in the goblin ship, the Doctor is staring down the camera to look for the right rope. It's done again when The Doctor and Ruby are looking at the pictures of the other foster kids on the fridge. Are these connected? And did you catch Ncuiti's "10ism"? 32 minute mark, Ruby asks the Doctor if the goblins are the cause of all accidents, the Doctor replies with a very David Tennant style "Oooohhhhhh". Perfect. Just perfect.
My theory is that Ruby is the doctor's daughter, and the woman who dropped Ruby off at the church was River Song. We know that River had heard rumors that the last time she and the Doctor would see each other was the night they spent at the Singing Towers of Darillium. Of course, a night on Darillium lasts for 24 years. Perhaps, after their night was over, River discovered she was pregnant. She could make a fairly good guess that she was likely to die without seeing the Doctor again, or at least without seeing a version of the Doctor who remembered their night on Darillium. She couldn't risk informing an earlier Doctor about the baby because of SPOILERS. Worried that if she kept the baby with her, the baby would share her fate, she decided to leave her at a church on Christmas Eve during a time period the Doctor was likely to meet her. Why would that be likely? Because the Tardis ALWAYS takes the Doctor where he needs to be. She might have trusted the Tardis to take a post-Darillium Doctor to meet Ruby at a point in time when Ruby needed him. The reason Davina McCall couldn't find any relatives of Ruby's is because Amy was unable to have any children after Melody. While Ruby's DNA would include some Time Lord, perhaps that was why Davina seemed so freaked out about the search results.
While I think my theory is unlikely to turn out to be true, wouldn't it be awesome if it was? The part I most want to see is Ruby reintroducing the Doctor to her Mom and Gram and telling them he is actually her biological father. That would, of course, be quite confusing. Ncuti Gatwa is only 31 and would appear too young to have a 19-year-old daughter. Oh, and there is the fact that Ruby does not appear to be of mixed race, much less Black. “It's really not that complicated,” the Doctor would say, “I spent most of my life as a white guy, well, many white guys and one white woman.”
I would really like to know what Ellie thinks of this theory. Before you answer, though, realize that if true, it would require, at the very least, a River Song/Alex Kingston cameo and perhaps more.
Absolutely love your idea as that is what i think too!! And one of the other doctor’s could easily have fathered Ruby cause remember…… anything can happen when it comes to the “Doctors”!!!
You should be a writer as I especially love your first paragraph that is so well detailed as to how it could be!!!
You can never tell about people by their outsides. I’m directly descended from 3 Native Nations (incl 2 tribal chiefs), Harald Fairhair, and a slave from Ghana.
I love this idea because it sounds so fun to explore!
@@dianeblack7392 Thank you very much. If RTD wants me to be a writer on the show, I'd be more than willing. ;-D
I love your theory and have been toying with a similar ‘off world’ story too.
Ruby is a Disney princess, this is why she can do an improv song so easily. 100% this will be the plot twist of the season. She comes from the toy maker's universe 😶
My theory is Mrs. Flood at the beginning/middle of the episode was an older version of Ruby, but didn't know what the Tardis was because younger Ruby had not yet decided to go with The Doctor. After younger Ruby decides to go with The Doctor is when Mrs. Flood develops memories of travelling in the Tardis, changes her tune, and starts acting like she knows.
One of my bigger complaints of the Chibnall era was his inability to “show not tell”. Any sense of what was going on came from direct dialogue saying “this is going on”.
In stark contrast, we have the miserable Sunday family sans Ruby. RTD wanted to show what Ruby meant to them, so he set up these few bleak moments that said so much without blatant narration.
Chibnall could have had an amazing moment where we get to see the master actually wreak havoc on gallifrey so we could get an understanding of what happened, except exactly as you put it, we just got a lecture on how he destroyed gallifrey and that was that, chibnall had so many moments to expand on what he was telling us but never bothered
My thoughts Mrs Flood is Susan.
As the Tardis has a perception filter- she would have been affected by that at first. Until she saw the Tardis disappear and then she was shocked. It made her remember and realise.
If you google Susan from tardis fandom you will see this story
“ When the First Rani trapped several of the Doctor's incarnations and companions in a time loop in London's East End, Susan found herself outside the Queen Victoria pub in 1973, where she encountered the Sixth Doctor for the first time. After initially failing to recognise him, Susan called out for Ian and Barbara, then asked, "Where's Grandfather? My Doctor? The original?" (TV: Dimensions in Time)”.
Who was the landlady of a certain pub but Anita Dobson. 1973 - 50 years ago. Also Susan’s birthday is given as 23 June 1948 just one year older than Anita Dobson.
Susan married an EC Commissioner name not given. She had a daughter and a son. She became a widow. She believed her daughter’s boyfriend at one time was a younger version of the doctor regenerated. Could that daughter be the Susan twist character who was in two episodes who seems to time travel? And may be Ruby’s mum? Look at Ruby’s blanket? It’s very rustic and old fashioned. Was ruby abandoned due to thinking she was a changling so left for the fairies as in a mid 16th century belief? Was the woman who left her truly her parent or did the doctor assume it at the time and this will be corrected later? I think the lady who dropped her off will turn out to be Mrs Flood but won’t be her mother.
The theme is about lost family or abandoned children- Susan was abandoned by the doctor on earth. In 1973 she was looking for him. He said he has no one.
The junk yard was in Shoreditch London which is in the East End. Anita Dobson is speaking with an East End accent. She says have you never seen a Tardis before- a Tardis not the tardis so she’s seen more than one. Susan was with her grandfather the doctor when they selected a tardis to run from Gallifrey- she’s seen more than one.
Also in the same article Susan has met her step- grandmother River Song so maybe that’s why she’s Mrs Flood but I think it’s playing on words from “ the waters from Mars story” - “ water is patient- water just waits “ talking about the Flood.
So is Mrs Flood the person who waits? And was Mr Flood the EC Commissioner she married or is the surname in honour or variation of her step - grandmothers name River Song/ Melody Pond?
Just my thoughts 🤷♀️
The reference to rope and luck as a "different form of physics" could be a nod to the Carrionites of the Shakespeare Code, where the Tenth Doctor says the same thing about the power of words.
And, since the Carrionites in that episode are tied to the "Dark Ages" of the universe when magic and the supernatural were the rule, this season might tie into the Flux, since that story changed/expanded the how and why that period ended and the laws of physics stabilized, and the Temple of Atropos was damaged in it.
Maybe what fix was made to the Temple at the end wasn't perfect, or maybe something slipped through the cracks before it was applied. But it might be a clue to the identity of the villain for the season or even the entire era, the one even the Toymaker was afraid of.
So you think we might get new physics and ghosts that seems existing
@@GoldenwhitewingsIt certainly seems like the damage the Flux caused is now allowing things from other forms of reality to slip into the Doctor's universe, based on my theory that the Goblin King was a focus for the energies that allowed the Goblin ship to exists and his death is what caused the ship to fold in on itself as it returned to whatever place of origin it originally had.
I'm with you, Ellie, River can only be played by Alex Kingston! Plus we know who her mother is. 💜
100% plus we know she didn't have any Regenerations left after saving 11 from the Judas tree poison
I'm surprised you didn't pick up on the Doctor having a different shirt from when he went into the Tardis, and when Ruby went in. Are we going to find out that he went somewhere in between?
Here's my stab-in-the-dark guess about Mrs Flood. I reckon it's when she saw the TARDIS dematerialise in front of her eyes that she realized what it was, suggesting that she's familiar with Timelord technology, but not with the Doctor himself. That would to me rule out anything to do with the Master, the Rani, or River Song.
Given that RTD is a massive Doctor Who fan and has already brought some extra-canonical stories and characters into canon, I wouldn't put it past him to find a way to include Iris Wildthyme -- a Timelord who first appears as an eccentric old woman who has based herself in contemporary London. Not only that, but she is sometimes written as if she is aware that she is a character in a TV show, so it would make sense for her to break the fourth wall.
Yeah, heard about her on tumblr. :D
And I heard that she is from the audio.
Also, I hope Mr Frobisher, a shapeshifter that got stuck in penguin form (at least that'a what I understoo), does end up joining the TV. Although, I can wait for season 2 for that. They can use a puppet and cgi like they did with The Meep.
Am I the only one who thinks Ncuti is the cutest, hottest doctor ever🥰🥰🥰
Probably, because it's pretty much opinion based, he's not my type, but he isn't like ugly.
No I loved David Tennant❤
One theory of mine is that she known about TARDIS before, but maybe she had never seen it in action or its appearence. She saw TARDIS fadding in front of her and dropped her bags, in shock, she may have some material, like journals and diaries, left by someone and she related its content after that, realizing that it was all true. Maybe she heard stories when she was a child, she heard about a man from the stars. She's always in front of home, wouldn't you if you were expecting someone who could arrive anytime? Specially in Christimas that is when stranger activities occurs in the Whoniverse. Anyway, I'm excited to discover more about that and I found this channel recentely and just loved your content. Thank you and happy new year!
I was so excited when I saw Anita Dobson as Mrs Flood, but I realised she wasn’t the only Eastenders actor in the episode. Cherry Sunday was played by Angela Wynter AKA Yolande Trueman, and other people pointed out that the woman with the pushchair who almost got hit by the snowman was Libby in Eastenders.
I really hope Ruby is the daughter of Dr's Daughter. :-)
Maybe she /is/ the Doctor's Daughter.
On Mrs Flood, I actually think they’ll go a direction not yet discovered.
Waiting (not too patiently) for the first episode. 😊😏👽
One of my favorite scenes in the Christmas special was when the Doctor was standing in Cherry's bedroom door. Gave me vibes of when the 9th Doctor met Jackie. I'd like to see Mrs. Flood be Romana.
Mrs Flood knows what a Tardis is, but she did not recognize it as a Tardis until it disappeared before her eyes...... Romana would have recognized it as the Doctor's Tardis........ (so would have any other Time Lord who knows the Doctor...
@@Rasyr But she was complaining to the neighbors about it which would mean she is hiding who she is from them. Also, she acknowledges the Doctor as a busy man like she knows who he is and points Ruby in the direction of the Tardis.
@@ronaldnelson6692 She did not know that it was a Tardis before it disappeared as she was coming up the road with her groceries. The shock and surprise on her face when that happens tells us that.
To me, this suggests two possibilities
1) She has encountered a Tardis before, but not this one - unless the one she encountered was a version of the Doctor after a Bi-Regeneration happened
2) She has heard tales of "the Doctor and his blue box" but not realized it was a Police Box until she saw it disappear.
I also think that:
1) She is not a Time Lord from Gallifrey (she could be an older version of Jenny, the Doctor's Daughter - who knows WHAT a Tardis is, but who never actually saw one)
2) That she does not have any harmful intent towards the Doctor
Except 15 was far more charmed with Cherry than 9 was charmed with Jackie. Go get it, Doctor! 😂
I wonder if Mrs. Flood could be Romana. Her second incarnation, as played by Lalla Ward often wore a pink outfit. The fact that Mrs. Flood's character seems to change in the later scene, could it actually be someone else who has taken her form, much as Romana took on the form of Princess Astra in 'Destiny Of The Daleks' ?
If Ruby is holding herself as a baby then why didn't The Reapers show up like they did in Fathers Day when Rose did the exact same thing!
.. because FD was where Rose went back to /change/ time. What appears to be happening here (at least one of the propositions) is that Ruby goes back in time to /fulfil/ the past. In fact, it could be said that the Reapers would come if she/didn't/ go back to create the stable time loop.
Either that or the Woman didn't touch her before leaving her, only touching her when she was protected to a certain extent by being in the proximity of something older than either of them, to wit the Church.
On who’s carrying the baby, we’ve assumed that the baby has literally just been born. In fact, they could have been several days old. Without further evidence, the birth date would likely have been recorded as that day.
It was mentioned Ruby was born on Christmas eve which is when she got dropped off at the church
And she may come from other reality.. pther universe, from future anything... They didn't find her DNA match in present time... And the dialogues specifically pushed the point that its impossible...
@@shubhounofficial5125 while it's possible for Ruby to be from the future, Davina specifically says we are "hoping" to find blah blah blah then she mentions we can't work miracles. Meaning there IS a possibility even if that possibility is incredibly small that they won't find anyone. Her family would have had to have given a DNA sample for them to be found and if they hadn't given any DNA for whatever reason. They won't be found through traditional means. I.e DNA
If it was so easy to find literally everyone with DNA Davina would not have said we are hoping. She would have said. We can find them but assuming nothing happened to them/they don't want to get in contact then we can connect you back with your biological family
Fair enough ... @@pizza01412
I love that they're giving us more mysteries to follow! When he was looking at the potential mother walking away, I honestly hoped he wasn't going to go run up to her. As much as we want answers, part of the fun is speculating and theorising. If they gave us all the answers upfront, we wouldn't have as much to talk about. Haven't been this excited about Doctor Who in a long time.
Maybe we will never know who the hooded person was who dropped her off. If it is a parallel to how the doctor treated the Timeless Child information in the flux, then putting the fob watch in the Tardis instead of learning the truth from it is what stopped him from running to the hodded person and seeing who it is. This could be how they frame the timeless child moving forward. That the portal and origin doesnt matter but being found and the family that raised you up is more important than the person who abandoned you.
Another big issue with Ruby being related to the Doctor from Jenny would be growing up with two hearts and no one freaking out about it. Since they also ran her DNA for the failed family search, there would be two issues with that as well. Either no matches happened because simply there is no match (which the show suggested was the answer) or she doesnt have human DNA so there was a zero percent chance of finding a match. I feel like the UNIT crew we have seen so far would have some kind of automated alert system if alien DNA was entered into one of those 23 and me searches.
I did have to look up what age Rose was in season 1 of New Who. It is a coincidence that both Rose and Ruby are both 19 years old when they first start their adventure with the Doctor. It does seem odd that they bring up the idea of coincidences in this episode.
So to end with a wild theory for fun.... if they want to show Ruby's mom dropping her off the let it be Rose Tyler. Rose whould have had a daughter with the one hearted 10th Doctor in the parallel universe!!!!! This would get around the issue of Ruby being realted amd having one heart while weaving in the concept of a child being dropped off in different universe like the Doctor in the Timeless Child.
There are too many hints to Rose. Even RTD saying Ruby was the first one since Rose to do the full circle of the Tartis to me was like "why is that important to know? Are you trying to drop hints at how like her mother Ruby is?! " to me she looks like Rose a little even.
Also it's a stretch but since they are leaning into fairy tale stuff (goblins) there is the connection of the name Rose-Red (snow white obviously got to be more famous) but rose /red=Ruby
New theory: not just a crone (helpful witch) but a Fey! Stronger than a toymaker, and it fits the fantasy and spooky. Beyond Baba Yaga or Feyqueen. There is also no time at all or hundreds of years in the Feyrealm. The one who waits could be waiting in there and pop out for a minute (century) to check on her favourites. also, Fey insert changelings, switch babies. Ruby could have been dropped off at a church by a fey. She could have a Fairy Godmother.
It's not that Mrs Flood didn't know what a TARDIS was at the beginning, but that she didn't recognise it as a TARDIS until it dematerialised in front of her when she returned with her shopping (and dropped it all). So she knows what a TARDIS is but doesn't know the Doctor's one until then. Bright .. but still stupid enough to do shopping on Christmas Eve.
Not the only one to do that. Remember person with the stroller that actually has grocery.
Honestly that is an amazing idea
I was very amused when the two of you were feeling old because of how young Ruby is, and that you remember well 2004! I remember well the very first Doctor Who episode when it first aired back in the early 60s! I am old, but still young at heart, and a life long Whovian! I am really looking forward to the episode about the Beatles, and a dive into the swinging 60s, I'm sure it will bring back a lot of memories! I just hope the get the vibe of the times right!
THANKS for this, Ellie and Sean!!!! Oh, so you guys feel old?!? HA!!! I remember watching "The Five Doctors" when it first aired in America ( *before* it aired in the U.K.! Look it up, folks!) and talking with a fellow fan about how weak we felt Five was compared to Four! It was our first taste of Five and his companions because in 1983 Four hadn't regenerated in front of us New Jersey public television viewers yet!
I was born during the month between Peter Davidson and Colin baker so I feel old being alive during the classic era even though I was 5 when it ended
Yes davisons doctor was weak
I vividly remember the horror (from behind the sofa) when Pertwee “died”. I was a bit too young to remember the one before that, so Pertwee is “my doctor” as in, the one I got to know the show through. So y’all making me feel old ;)
@@davidbarry9690 I thought so at the time. (I mean, Adric.... :( ). Now I see him as vulnerable, different from the superhero Baker.
@@sputukgmailyeah. Feeling old too. Pertwee was my first memory of the dr, but Tom Baker is the one I really remember from childhood.
22:11 I don't think Mrs. Flood is the Rani, and I don't think the Rani is coming back this season (between the tease of
"the Boss," and the Toymaker's legions, and the mystery of Ruby's parentage, getting the Rani involved seems like that would be too much going on for once season). However, I definitely think we'll get the Rani back during Ncuti's era, mostly because we also have the return of a companion who's faced her before (Mel.) I could see a lot of potential in the Rani as the overarching villain for *next* season, pulling strings behind the scenes like the Master/Harold Saxon in s3
This is the only piece of Who I've ever watched again the next day. Sensational. Really loved dancing and singing along for once. I've always wanted the Doctor to really let loose!
I watched each of the last episodes 3 times in a row the day they each came out
Just going to point out - unless RTD just wrote a bad script, there definitely is a reveal of who Ruby's mum is on the way, because the Doctor's voiceover says that no one knew who her mom was UNTIL that night.
The person carrying the baby is totally Jodie’s doc. Look at the pants. He didn’t stop her because he was remembering.
The Goblins being magical could be another aspect of the Toy Maker, minions, clingers on, creatures from the fringe of reality and fantasy, so all linked up.
God I hope this doctor gets a Harkness plot line they’d be great on screen together
Sadly John Barrowman has been fired by The BBC.
10 years ago, he showed his dick on set although he apologised. I know Noel Clark, the one that played Mickey, did the same.
Although look at Neil Patrick Harrison the moment there are accusations of sexual harassment against him. At least I heard there is.
It doesn't look that great on the BBC side.
If you noticed the opening scene with the doctor was different from the ending one as he was crying in the opening as well so I assume this is going to come back later in the season.
As they say Millie Gibson was there for filming but we didn't see her in the Zmas episode, so they go back again, for some reason.
The mother doesn't look back or hesitate, it suggests that she already knows that the child will get taken in safely and have a good childhood, so part of the answer of Ruby' s mother will be "it's all timey wimey"
I am betting ruby dropped herself off there and the reason there is no record of her parents is that she was born in the future and had to take herself back too avoid a paradox
Probably why the Doctor doesn’t chase after her, he already knows who she is
@@matthouston15 whoever left the baby almost certainly knew already that the priest discovered the child at midnight as she did not see the need to wrap her up ... Perhaps later on the series we will see how it was engineered that the priest came outside at midnight (I didn't see either the doctor or the woman ringing any bell at the church door..)
@@danthemeegs8751 I'm not so sure, it could be that if he tackled the mother then Ruby would never have had her loving upbringing, and her adopted family would never have gone on to foster 32 other children... after all the Doctor had gone back in time to correct the timeline.. Perhaps leaving the child at the church was a "Fixed Point in Time" that couldn't be meddled with, we saw what happened if fixed points are disrupted after Lake Silenceo and when Rose tried to save her father ((oh dear I'm spending faaaarrrr too much time thinking about Doctor Who 😁))
@@AngelaH2222 its common practice for churches fire stations and hospitals to do checks for abandoned babies at regular intervals so that's not realy strange
Those gloves would have been really helpful back in the day for preventing Rose from getting sucked into a parallel dimension forever….
I think that as part of his self healing/rehabilitation has been inventing gadgets that would have saved the Companions he has lost in tragic ways to ensure that future companions never suffer the same fate.
Someone also mentioned it was why Dan left too. He was one hand slip away from dying. Definitely agree it fits narratively perfectly.
True.
I think the first NuWho episode took place a week or something after the church scenes(and I was a only few months old)
Her personality changes after seeing the TARDIS disappear. Very much like the Chameleon Arch and how it affects the Master in Utopia. She’s a Time Lord.
At one point Mrs Flood had no idea what a Tardis is, and then at the end of the episode she knew.
Does this go along with the reference to ‘Mavity’ in every episode - implying that the doctor’s intervention is always subtly changing time?
Probably! I'm curious if The Doctor's ever gonna fix it.
Sean, The Doctor did say he was a billion years old!
So a lot more suffering than you thought!
My Mrs Flood theory is it's just timey whimey. Her character will probably show up as a young woman in the Beatles episode and she will learn about the TARDIS then. It's just a fun thing rather than huge.
I don't know if anyone else has suggested this but, think Ruby Sunday is the Master/Missy and Mrs Flood, Flood Gate, Immortality Gate, is a Disciple of Saxon, the woman who left Ruby/the Master/Missy, at the church as a baby. She's watching over her until she is old enough to know the truth or has a 'fob watch device that will restore the mind of who she really is at some point.
Probably because I’ve seen it many, many times, the entire plot gave me Labyrinth vibes. Of course the Henson muppets looking like the goblins from Labyrinth helped that. The music, the goblin king wanting to eat the human baby (we don’t know what Jareth’s intentions were)… yeah, Labyrinth. Am I alone here?
Thank you for the reminder. I couldn't remember the name of the film. The Goblin King in Labyrinth was played by the late David Bowie. You are not the only one who was thinking of Labyrinth whilst watching the Christmas special of Dr Who. 😂
Mrs Flood. Has something changed? Yes- the TARDIS moved! When she was complaining about it, it was just blocking the pavement outside her house. Also- she seemed to genuinely ask who the Doctor was when he first turns up at the house. But then he nipped off and back a couple of times- and then parked across the road. It seems to be at this point that she realises it's a TARDIS.
Because she didn't realise it was a TARDIS, and apparently didn't recognise the Doctor straight away, I don't think she is a TimeLady herself- but has clearly met one, or someone similar, before.
Anyone who knows a old school West indian/Afro Caribbean Matriarch has had conversations like those with Cherry Sunday. Brilliantly written character.
It felt to me like the Goblins were partly sidlineed to give the The Doctor and Ruby time to shine. Perhaps it was deemed unnecessary to flesh them out. because everyone knows what Goblins are? Would agree that they perhaps could Have been fleshed out to put a whoniverse stamp on them.
With Mrs Flood what I found interesting was that she said "A TARDIS" rather than "The TARDIS," which would suggest Gallifreyan origin, or at least knowledge of timlord society. Also, I believe the only Timelords have demonstrated 4th wall awareness in Canon?
I think Mrs. Flood knew what a TARDIS is, she just didn’t know the Doctor’s TARDIS. I think she is a Time Lord who has somehow survived and has been hiding out on Earth as a regular human.
The more I think about the one who waits, the more my imagination tells me “Why not 14?” 15 is the product of BiGeneration, shedding the guilt and the shadows of his past and returning to the carefree adventurerer just trying to help wherever he can, not to atone for anything, but because he cares.
But that pain doesn’t disappear. He can manage it better, but 14 wore it on his sleeves.
The Valeyard is a product of The Doctor’s darkest traits, created “Somewhere between your 13th and final regeneration” a bit of a gap, granted, but it fits.
Maybe part of 14’s recovery that helps 15’s “rehab out of order” is a mental breakdown
How did I only JUST now get 'Janice Goblin'!! I even said 'ohh like Janice Jopelyn' when watching the ep and the pun still went over my head 😂
My CRAZY theory about Mrs. Flood is, what if she's the Doctor's actual mother from the other universe, and that she's also Ruby's mother, making the Doctor and Ruby siblings.
Then... Ruby should have Timeless Child powers. Cause it's highly unlikely Ruby's mother had access to a Chameleon Arch (that's a Timelord invention).
That would be another really fun angle! Can you imagine the utter shock of Ruby just bigenerating mid-adventure to show she's also a Timeless Child.
@@CharmedPop it would be intense.
The word foundling can be heard a lot in the show “the Mandalorian” I don’t know if it’s why but it’s quite possible that this could be a major part in the return of this rather archaic word
So when Ruby was six days old, the tenth Doctor was staggering up to Rose telling her she was going to have a really great year?
Seán Ferrick and Miss Ellie Littlechild are easily the Doctor and Missy of Review Shows...
So fun, so bantering, so chatty, so awesome together 😊
Maybe she hasnt seen a tardis in the form of a police box , but recognised it was a tardis when it disappeared and the whooshing sound happens.
I feel like this is an opportunity to bring back the best villain of dr who, the trickster - there's a mysterious hooded figure and the goblins feel like the tricksters brigade, when they remove ruby from the timeline
It was one of the worst Doctor Who episodes of recent memory too me.
40 years of fandom, living through the wilderness years... And even loving the specials.
But that was not enjoyable.
I didn't like Ncuti's portrayal of the Doctor. Sure he's attractive and energetic, but that seems about it. Little presence, lack of gravitas, and basically turned into the gay best friend.
That's not The Doctor.
If that doesn't improve I'm pretty sure we will see ratings dropping as the moderates and more conservative viewers switch off.
Just rewatched the episode, Mrs. Flood definitely knows something. She just didn't realize the police box was a TARDIS. But she knows what a TARDIS is for sure.
I just realised that WhoCulture has become my post-episode discussion outlet somehow :p Good show, and good presentation :)
Could Mrs. Flood be Susan Foreman's mum?
I'd be happy if she was a new character in the Doctor's story.
And if/when they bring Jenny, or Susan, back I'd want them to at least start as themselves.
As always, thank you all so very much for the videos. And hope you have a joyous 2024!
On the feeling old front, my doctor was 7...so definitely feeling it!
OK, I can top that. The first doctoror that I fully remember was 3 (Jon Pertwee), although I was probably watching before then because my Mum has been watching since the beginning. I do remember peering around doorways to watch because the monsters were really scary when you're that little!
24:40 - Something did indeed change: She already knew what a TARDIS is, but didn't know the police box was a TARDIS until she saw The Doctor use it.
I want *mysteries* , not mystery boxes. The difference is that we actually have a chance of working out a mystery ourselves, whereas a mystery box pulls a solution out of the writer's @$$ with no real groundwork, intending to be something no one could have expected. I want the writer to put in the work to craft a puzzle we could actually work out if we're clever and paying attention.
Love the discussion, and the 15 & Ruby storyline.
Plus Mrs. Flood definitely got us all going wild with theories. I love this
My favourite part was when Ruby entered the TARDIS and she asked Ncuti "Who are you?" and he replied "I'm the Doctor"
I'd like to see The Rani return. Great character. Evil as heck.
Ranilieber here. Give us the Rani!
I think that Brian May's wife Anita Dobson is the Rani and she had done like the Doctor and Master has done in the past and locked her memory up at the beginning of the story and that's why she didn't no what the blue box was at the beginning of the story.
But by the end of the story she knew exactly what a TARDIS is as she got her memory back.
It would make sense as Kate O'Mara. Unfortunately Died: 30 March 2014.
It is possible at the beginning Mrs flood didn't know what the TARDIS was. The she saw it move multiple times during the episode. At that point she probably realised what it was, she might know of the TARDIS but might not have recognised it.
She says at the end "You've never seen A Tardis?"
Not The!
You know whats wild. The church scene takes place just 3 months before newwho started airing.
Ncuti is the first Doctor that's younger than me. That alone makes me feel old.
He’s the fourth Doctor that’s younger than me. 😳
Millie is the first Companion who is younger than me and it scares me I will soon be older than an Actor of the Doctor...
She didnt recognise it as a blue police box but she recognised it as a tardis from it disappearing. My guess is she is a time lady who isn't familiar with the doctor. Whoever it is though, Aninta Dobson plays her so well and likeably that i hope she sticks around for a while.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isnt River Song a Moffat exclusive character? Also- in this video you guys mention how people theorized Ms. Flood is River, but never talked about the name connection of Pond, river, and flood (You did mention that other connection with the name). I find the river connection much more convincing with those names.
Also, I don't think they mentioned the name would likely be Carol Flood either. Moffat is returning for at least one story in season 2! Or at least heavily implied to be.
oooo very interesting@@CharmedPop
@@CharmedPop
Plus we have heard of one being said in MANHATTAN for season 2.
He has a hard time landing there for timey wimey reasons.
Feeling old compared to Ruby, yes, Ellie? Now you know exactly how we feel!
Just joking, I've enjoyed my "elderly age" (40 to 60) much more than I enjoyed my youth.
On The Timeless Child, I agree that it needs further examination, and I trust the team to give us more, but not too quickly.
It needs to be written out. It completely changes who the Doctor is, from a renegade time traveller to practically God.
@@TheGreatLordDufusalso I see many NuWho fan screeching about the Valeyard - clearly they do not understand his Lore and current NuWho Lore are totally impractical. As the is written in Classic Who a time lord can only regenerate 12 times with his 13th life his final. The TC says nahhh the Doctor is different and can regenerate many many times without hitting a cut off.
In relation to the Valeyard he should of arrived by now - but no as 11th got a whole new Regeneration cycle (so I'm assuming 12 regens like the Classic rules) then TC spreads it arse cheeks and dumps on the whole thing 😂
@@Mark-nh2hs Matt Smith's Doctor was granted a whole new "regeneration cycle", which like yourself I assume means an extra full set of regenerations. So the Valeyard could be any time between 13 and 25. Between "twelfth and final incarnation" wasn't it, not "twelfth and thirteenth"?
Plus, can the Tennant 14th Doctor still regenerate again, as he's still around? I assume not and that his regeneration energy (a nuWho phrase I believe) is used up, but it potentially adds a whole new branch of Doctors where the timeline could include the Valeyard without any TC nonsense.
Which episode was it that Matt Smith’s Doctor was granted a whole new “regeneration” as i would like to go back and watch it!@@TheGreatLordDufus
@@dianeblack7392 'The Time of the Doctor' :)
Ellie & Sean, considering I graduated in 1987, The fact that the church scenes were set in 2004 wasn't that bad for me. lol
My theory on Mrs Flood is that she going to be a new character that the Doctor & Ruby meet in the upcoming series as a much younger person (the Beetles episode would kind of fit age wise if she is older than she appears). She obviously knows more about Ruby than initially let on which is why she encouraged Ruby to go into the TARDIS - setting the wheels of timey-wimey in motion
Yeah, I first heard that idea in the comments, and the “not seen one since the 60s” line combined with there being a Beatles ep on the way, does feel like a RTD kind of tease.
OK, here is my Mrs. Flood theory.
She knows what a TARDIS is, but, tellingly, she doesn't recognize the Doctor's TARDIS until she sees it disappear (as shown by her being shocked when it does even though she knows what a TARDIS is). Which tells me she knows about Timelords, but she doesn't know about the Doctor. Which kind of leaves out anyone we have met before (unless there is a character I don't know about that fits the bill).
I don't think she is there because of the Doctor (though she might be there because of Ruby), she was there for some other reason when the Doctor, by coincidence, showed up. Which is why the episode is all about coincidence goblins.
Earlier in the episode Mrs Flood does say she hasn't seen one (police box) for 50 years. And her smile at the end, for a split second is less warm and more conniving.
She says 'haven't you seen a TARDIS before ?' and is described as breaking the 4th wall ? So, to whom is she speaking ? If she is talking to the audience, it'd be pointless because of course WE know what a TARDIS is. Is she talking to Abdul ?
It was when Ruby walked around the tardis. She spoke about it being 'a great big thing' and 'not seen one for 50 years' but RTD plants seeds here there and everywhere. Some come to fruition, some don't. But the possibilities are endless.... because its Dr Who.
Mrs Flood is probably going to be a new Wilfred type character replacement or I read in another channel comments someone was saying she could be a Bigeneration of the First Doctor - I hope not, but being NuWho anything is possible
I think she's River's daughter or Amy's daughter. And the mother of Ruby. Therefore, making Ruby the Doctor's granddaughter or niece. I haven't seen many people mention that the same older woman who was in the Newton scene was in the club scene and yelled at the band.
I noticed I think the woman you mentioned is going to be Ruby’s mum. Hence no DNA Ruby’s mum comes from the past. Maybe she thought Ruby was a changling and left her for the fairies so she would get her own baby back - this was a belief in the 16th century In many parts of England/ Scotland/ Wales etc so people would leave their babies out at night especially if it was a sickly baby thinking it was a changling and believe that the fairies/ or little people would bring their own baby back - they obviously didn’t and the baby died. But families comforted themselves that it was the changling baby that died. Maybe this is why Ruby was abandoned but the person could not completely do this so left the baby outside a church which was going to have midnight mass so knew she would be found. I don’t think the cloaked person is the mother just the person who drops the baby off.
It would not be River song. her story is done snd this is a soft reboot. i think RTD is going down a whole new area. I think she is connected to the doctor but i think through Susan. I think this woman is connected to Mrs Flood. I think Mrs flood is Susan and this woman could be Susan’s daughter and therefore Ruby is Mrs flood biological granddaughter and thats ruby’s connection to the doctor. But then is Susan going to end up being connected to the doctor due to the timeless child?
@@All_Things_ACE how do you think she got from 1666 to 2023? The Doctor does say the mother was the one who dropped her off though. It could be a misdirect of course. I'm not so sure on River being completely over. Mel is back and it seems like RTD wants to better meld the show together from all eras. Part of the reason the fandom is so fractured is the lack of cohesiveness. I don't think River would play a big part but rather be there to setup a next generation type of thing. Her daughter, Susan, and Jenny on adventures with The Doctor would have one foot in classic, one foot in Nuwho, and Ruby as her daughter leading the way for NuNuWho! The mother could also be 13. It would be a big reveal but Jodie was pregnant during filming and could explain 15's bad luck comment. That said, I do like your idea that her mother thought it was a changeling. Would be a good mix of historical realism and I'm almost certain the ending of the arc will be Newton becoming obsessed with hidden codes in the Bible towards the end of his life to fit with history. Honestly, there's so much thrown at us this episode it's really impossible to guess. I do wonder if some of it is a big misdirect and Lulu will end up being the important baby. Maybe the Timeless Child? Either way, I'm excited!
@@CharmedPop at the moment I don’t think we have been shown that - but if the Jonathan Groff is the new Jack Harkness type character there is a possible answer there! I think this lady is another mystery box character and I think the answer lies in the line from the Tardis fandom- Susan thought her daughter’s new boyfriend was a younger doctor regenerated into a younger person. What if she had been wrong and it was someone else who could time travel? Who maybe had a form of Tardis? I think Russell is doing a huge tease and we have only seen just a fraction of this puzzle. I think it’s going to be much bigger than we think and that there are going to be people involved in this who we have not met yet.
I like your idea that lulu will end up being the important baby - maybe Vinder and Bel’s baby from the flux? But somehow the timeless children arc is all connected. Did you notice that in the club scene the doctors and Ruby costumes mirrored each other exactly- tartan, white t shirt, two necklace chains, rings on fingers, black boots and of course black leather jackets, they are two peas from the same pod. Whether that makes them connected family wise or connected timeless child wise but it was another coincidence. Also Ruby was wearing tartan shorts when she left to go in the Tardis.
@@CharmedPop by the way I would love to see more River as I love River and I totally loved River with Capaldi. But I think River could actually get her own spin off called the Diary of River Song where she interacts with all the doctors and has her own adventures. I think that would work as well as a unit spin off and that could feature other characters like Jack Harkness, and a possibly Torchwood merge -so you get a crossover from there and unit. It would be like a Sarah Jane type adventure but this time using River Song. I think a lot of people who like River would be up for that.
As an Australian, never had doctor who on Christmas Day - always 5am boxing day. When no one else wants to watch it with me anyway
Mrs. Flood could be someone the Doctor met during Classic Who (or later episodes set in the recent past). She might have seen this Tardis before but real police boxes are more common so she didn't make the connection. And the Doctor's Tardis looks different now.
everyone is saying mrs flood is a returning character but shes definitely an original character
Flood -> River -> River Song
People saying it’s the Rani or the Master
I think it’s Ruby from the future (or maybe her “mother” in the beginning scene is her from future dropping baby off)
Carol Flood = River Song = Melody Pond
@almachizit3207Is Mrs Flood's name known to be Carol ?
@@quantisedspace7047 no, that's speculation I've heard
re Mrs Flood not recognising the TARDIS early in the episode.... it could be that she knows what a TARDIS is but at that point in the episode hadnt seen THE DOCTORS TARDIS.
The first thing I thought of when baby Ruby was dropped off at the beginning of the episode was they will do a Red Dwarf with Lister and it will turn out Ruby is her own Mum.
I'm liking this comment because of the Ace flag in your profile pic!
Are you my mummy?? Are you my mummy??
The lister s his own father thing did come out of left field cause I’m rewatching red dwarf and his has stated that he had parents
Red Dwarf is a comedy show. In the real world being your own parent won't work since you need two parents and get half of your genetic inheritance from one and half from the other.
Robert A Heinlein's "-All you zombies-" relatively recently filmed as "Predestination" gets around that by having the mother be impregnated by a sex-changed future version of herself but I think that would be rather too much even for Russell T Davies in Dr Who. It might be possible though to achieve the same effect by having Ruby travel into the future with the Doctor and somehow have her end up with a cloned baby of herself which is then left at the Church.
Dear Ellie and Sean, you missed the other elephant in the room/ episode. Mrs Merridew, Newton's housekeeper was watching Millie Gibson's Band and asked for Gaudete.
Not that Mr.s flood knows what a tardis is she BROKE THE 4th WALL
I’m thinking that she is the alternate old Amy that had to be left behind. Yah her eyes roll back into her head but the scene cuts to white right after. Pond, River, Flood. If she was smart enough to make a sonic probe in that episode I bet she can figure out time travel as well.
Or Mrs. Flood is a time lady (Rani?) who had used the chameleon arch and was a human in the early scene but was resored by the end scene
There is one rule: You can't travel on your own timeline. I bet Sunday will steal Tardis and travel to that moment, Doctor will be pissed angry on her.
Can we just acknowledge that The Doctor is rocking that amazing kilt in the club?
Mrs. Flood does say "never seen A TARDIS before". This means she may just not have know the police box was a TARDIS until she saw it dematerialize
Exactly, it might be like the Scream franchise. The people in the suit killing aren't exactly the actors who turned out to be the killers.
I hadn't considered the granddaughter theory, but considering they're calling this season 1, it would be kind of a cool parallel to the true season 1 of the doctor traveling with his granddaughter...
I don't think that's more evidence for that theory being true but I could definitely see that being the reasoning for them doing it.
My theory (which is more a hope than anything), is that Ruby's mum is Jenny from The Doctor's Daughter. This is mostly so we can see Georgia Tennant again. And so we have The Doctor travelling with his granddaughter again.
I really hope whoculture sees this comment. What if Mrs Flood is a character that the Whoniverse has mentioned in the classic era but we have never seen such as...the TERRIBLE ZODIN. Russell seems to be bringing obscure and forgotten characters like the Toymaker. I could see him do this. What do you think Ellie?