I really don't understand how an atheist's funeral can take place in a Catholic cathedral. I'm with you Michael. I'm very disappointed by Cardinal Dolan's response. Whoever allowed this funeral inside St Patrick Cathedral would have to resign!
the person who died was a baptized Catholic. so whether they were atheist or not, they are entitled to a catholic funeral. There was no Mass. we as onlookers, do not know the state of their soul at death. they may or may not have been meeting with a priest about their sins.
@user-fk9bq1ms5h it extremely hard to get a funeral mass at Saint Pat's. This was allowed!!! Dolan has a lot to answer for, even more so during his Cardinals appeal.
The priest were not informed of who this person, her group were. They were only asked by the family if her funeral could be held. This person talking is dragging priest through the mud. This talking head, doesn't know if she made reparation to God before death.
I watched it. Because I could not believe I was seeing.because the LGBT have so much power and had haslaw protection. It was Santanic the words were disgusting did he sit through the program and see it. the concern people had was the Mocking calling the dead person after Saint Celia the Whore the Queen its was slime the actions the mocking words I won't go on 1st he should have watched the film that was taken of the everdence then judge it Bishop Dolan before answering any words to the public . We have sympathy for the parish people these days nothing is protected anymore. Legislatiion is passed and Family's Even life is not safe . Anne Marie
Well, there is some truth to that. A lot of Catholics don’t consistency fulfill their mass obligations, only showing up around major holy days. Not to mention lack of parish involvement in community events and orgs which brings things down even more. I know people who say they’re Catholic, but don’t go to mass for a variety of reasons (such as ‘no time’ or ‘I don’t like the priest there’ but don’t bother going anywhere else). If the parishioners at the cathedral were more involved, then there might have been a stronger presence there to better weed out bad actors. As it is, you have a limited admin staff probably already struggling with current operations and little assistance from others.
I think everyone is missing the point. There seems to be an infection within the leadership in the sense they are tough on the sheep and tender with the wolves.maybe it’s Gods way to sanctify the faithful further. And call closer those who are already within the fold
There is a saying in the bible that says we must be sober and on alert for the devil roams around like a lion. The clergy were asleep on the job. Background checks need to be put in place for everyone now. I just want to say something to regarding people who are not Catholics just walking into Catholic Church’s and Cathedrals and taking part in the sacraments. You are quite welcome to partake in the Mass and even join us in our prayer groups, lectures and recite the rosary prayer with us however you can not get up to receive the body of Christ during Mass that’s only reserved for Catholics. You have to be in a state of grace as well. So many Catholics treat it like it’s a right. Non Catholics can’t go to confession either or get married or have a funeral at a Catholic Church. Every man woman and child is treating the sacraments and the dogma of the Catholic Church like it’s a rubbish dump. I think large notices need to be put up outside churches to remind people off the street that we Catholics take our faith very seriously. By all means people can become Catholics if they want. But please do not disrespect our faith. It’s not a cafeteria where you just walk in and have what you feel like.
I watched a few minutes into the video. It's so upsetting to me, I don't even know if I can watch the entire thing. I just don't understand how they could have allowed this funeral for this man to take place there.
Michael, Thank you for this As a Catholic New Yorker I am troubled by this event. It is so clear that the organizers of the funeral intended to to commit fraud and thats unfortunate. I am supremely concerned by the pore judgement of the Cathedral staff who allowed themselves to be duped. And I am upset with the Cardinal who appears to approve of the priest poor judgement and lack of courage. I intend to write to the Nunciature to express my displeasure and demand he get involved. I hope I am not alone in this effort. Cardinal Dolan is one of if not the preeminent U.S Cardinals and his flock deserves better then this.
The microphones should have been shut down immediately. I agree the entire charade was a deliberate action of sacriledge on behalf of enemies of the Church and must never ever again.
Dolan must Go where he knows he should go. FBI checks who on Earth does that. He speaks with fork tongue like the said in old western movies. He should be out out no mention completely EXPELLED he started this when he to to the streets with them ost. Patrick's Day parade. n
This is the culture now. It's not disgraceful anymore...it's so common I call it.... ...Wednesday. The USCCB took their eyes off the ball in the 1980s...and this is the result. Mark my words...there will be people having s3x on an altar soon.
I just think that disciplinary action needs to be taken as well from Rome regarding this. For all the clergy involved. And a formal apology is not enough
Disciplinary action in what form? It's clear that they were blindsided by this madness. The magisterium should take this very seriously and provide further instruction to their parish officials as to how to prevent this from happening in the future, but they did shut down the Mass before the Liturgy of the Eucharist, when they realized their mistake. What good would it do to come down so hard on the priests - who are probably already beating themselves up - for being blindsided, other than making you and I feel good about ourselves? That's not the Christian thing to do. Further instruction? YES. Disciplinary action? That seems like it would only be an act of vengeance on our part. Just for clarification, I'm as appalled by this is you are. What I hope you realize is this: Division is exactly what the devil wants in the Church, the same type of division this group of deviants is trying to perpetuate. Don't take the bait. Love your brother. Forgive his mistakes. Expect more next time. If it becomes a trend, THEN we've got a serious issue that would require disciplinary action.
@@ignatiusjackson235 I do appreciate this response. However the dismissive response was what prompted me to see that they may have not felt it was a mistake and therefore may repeat the same thing all over again. But you’re right. Sometimes I wonder if we were in the shoes of those priests what kind of courage and assertiveness would I or anyone else had practiced then. I guess take out the log from one’s eye before the dust from the other
@@ynmm3798 Precisely. I'm glad that you are able to see that. It demonstrates a great deal of humility on your part, brother. I was very suspicious at first, too, due to the way the story was first reported to me. However, the fact that they DID shut down the service before the Liturgy of the Eucharist took place convinced me that there was no ill intention on behalf of the priests involved. God bless, and thank you for your understanding!
I cannot get over the profanity being yelled near the altar and the audience yelling back and screaming as if they were possessed. These acts cannot be justified and these actions will remain with that priest and Dolan forever .
As I understand it - the background of the deceased [ being an atheist etc.]is already known well before the funeral was held, so it a serious error of judgment was definitely made by whoever was responsible to monitor all religious events held in St.Patrick's Cathedral. If the supporters of the deceased wanted to hold the funeral to draw public attention to whatever causes or issues they are promoting, they could always do it at Central Park , Rockefeller Centre Ice Rink or some other public venues of their choice, but not St. Patrick's Cathedral of all places. That was truly an insulting sacrilege and totally unacceptable.
I'm a Protestant who might convert to Catholicism and found this super disheartening. How is it that I, low church Protestant, cares more about what happened than the Cardinal...
Respect the House of God was taught to us at an early age i.e., from no talking in Church, to genuflecting before one entered the pew, to using the sign of the Cross when passing the Church, and dozens of other mannerisms to outwardly show we are Catholics recognizing God’s House and all that entails in the Faith. The World today puts Sodom and Gomorrah to shame when it comes to blasphemy and sacrilege for the Catholic Faith.
Exactly the way i was taught as well. Christs presence, body, blood, soul and divinity in the tabernacle was always highlighted and continually stressed to us during chatechism, that till today i am conscious of HIM as i set foot into HIS house. This was absolutely a slap in the faces of many faithful followers of Christ.
bishop dolan also allowed catholic liturgical vestments used during a red carpet event for another sacrilegious act at the Met gala his apologies then where just as pathetic
God bless the Priest who told the visiting Priest, who was performing the service, "No Funeral Mass". This Priest who said "No Funeral Mass was very courageous, especially in these times where Faithful Priest are mocked and punished, for being faithful Priest.
It makes it very hard to evangelize the teachings of our faith when our church allows such irreverence within the thresholds of our church. The clergy at St. Patrick’s needs to be accountable for allowing such sacrilege to before the Holy tabernacle. My wife is a newly convert to our faith and is questioning why we allow such activities to occur in our church. Hard to explain why?
Our small local church, as members of, we had to meet and discuss what we could have at 2funerals, and 2 marriages. They were very careful about what we could do. I can’t believe they didn’t do that with this huge event
I can only imagine how difficult it may have been to the staff at the cathedral to realize the sacrilege it was taking place but changing from the liturgy of the Eucharist to a simple service was the right thing to do. Just imagine how they would be accusing the church of hate if they would have been asked to stop and just leave the church?
That's actually an incredible point. As a Catholic, I'm outraged that it happened at all, but the charitable assumption here is yours, and I agree. Had they celebrated they Eucharist, though, I would expect far more than a simple apology from Timothy Dolan. That's an important distinction to make. Michael Lofton really should have made that clear in his FIRST video, frankly.
Who requested to have this person to have a "funeral" at the cathedral? Why did the presiding priest not to do anything? Was he in shock and didn't know what to do? Could it be these irreverent people used it to come on the Church to be sacrilegious?
Trenchant observations. I will confess that when Cardinal Dolan was elevated to his present position I perceived him to be orthodox in belief and practice. I watched him interviewed on television shortly thereafter and was left with an uneasy feeling insofar as his comportment and demeanor struck me as one who may like the limelight with all the character traits appurtenant thereto. So, the rather dismissive response, unfortunately, does not surprise me. As to the outrage of the decedent’s entourage, I’m afraid their actions smack of a very well orchestrated ambush. Their arguments are insulting to the intellect. The teachings of the Catholic Church are unambiguous. The deceased consciously rejected The Church, and their atheism was well known. Those who organized the event, and I dare say nearly everyone in attendance, reject The Church, or I should say, The Church as it has defined itself heretofore. To think that one has a right to make an institution for which one has, de facto, made one’s enemy defies logic and reason. If the New York Ballet attends a Yankee’s game, and is escorted from the field because they insist on performing The Nutcracker Suite in center field while the game is being played, can they argue that the Yankee’s violated league rules by denying their right to attend the game?
Well said Michael. There is being 'nice & welcoming' & then there is what happened in St Patricks. There's a good reason why we were told to be wise as serpents & gentle as doves. This could have been avoided, but unfortunately it looks like some cowardice was at play & certainly not wisdom. 😢
Any other Sacrament or Liturgy celebrated in parishes I've served in had at least a perfunctory investigation into those who were participating in it or for whom it was celebrated or offered for. Baptisms, the parents and godparents are inquired if they are practicing Catholics, if at least one parent is Catholic (and if the other is non-Catholic, they agree to raise the infant of child as a Catholic) that the godparents are practicing Catholics. For First communion and Confirmation we check to see that the person is baptized. For Marriage not just inquiry into the religion and if those to be married are not members of the Parish, that the Pastor of the woman's parish permits a priest in another parish which she does not belong to the Jurisdiction over one who's soul is under his care. Deacons and priests not only have to have all previous sacraments and investigation if there is a recorded marriage reported to the parish where the man was baptized (Latin Rite canon law) and investigation into his spiritual, moral and educational fitness to be ordained. So too if someone from outside the parish wished to be buried with a public Mass or Burial, at the very least the parish of record for the deceased would be contacted to notify them of the death, and inquire if there were any known impediments. Yup I'm sort of stuck in the old ways of doing things that I was trained in, and many may out of laziness or ignorance skip these basic steps, no FBI checks are done, but a few simple phone calls or a certified baptismal certificate are easy to obtain.
Lazy response from his Eminence Cardinal Dolan. Sloppy work from St. Patrick’s Cathedral on not verifying the legitimacy of the deceased. I understand that we don’t want to be legalists but…Com’on man! There are some basic and fundamental things that need to be verified. We’re going to see a Tsunami 🌊 wave of lazy dismissive behavior and argumentation from this point on regard all kinds of topics regarding the Faith now.
This is such bad witness and scandal, the whole world is watching (I'm in Slovakia btw), not just Catholics but what can we now say to non-Catholics or non Christians if we don't even hold to our own standards and are not willing to speak the truth in love and follow our own (not to say God's) rules. This is anything but true love. Are we not supposed to be the light and salt of the world?
Doesn't this call into question whether Cardinal Dolan can receive ecclesiastical funeral rights? He's really pushing 1184-3 to the limits in my opinion.
@@reasonandtheology At least this sadness is fitting for this time of year. I’m thankful for how much simpler it will be to pray the Sorrowful Mysteries this evening.
I've been studying the current culture for 12 years...all aspects. NOTHING surprises me anymore. It's just me checking off events on my list of predictions. We are 2 years ahead of my schedule...and you wouldn't believe what's coming in the next two years. The Church is completely unprepared to deal with any of it.
He MUST RESIGN! He is a disgraced cardinal and a disgrace to our Catholic Faith! How can this go go on? What are we supposed to think? May God have mercy on all of us!
Now that we hear about the findings, incompetence requires four people to be demoted and do reparation: from the chain of command- the head, the pastor, the priest who officiated and the administrative secretary. Delaying action will only prolong the agony. Give our Lord and Saviour the respect we creatures owe God. Jesus says it is a narrow path to heaven but he showed us how to do it. And as I understand it Jesus conveyed the strict requirements and yes, it requires courage. There is no place to hide!
You are 100% right on. I would not be able to have my funeral at St. Patricks. I believe this was planned. I believe the priest actually doing the service was not a member of St. Patricks but a " guest priest". He fully intended to do a Mass. A priest named Rev. Salvo (a member of St. Patricks) went up to the altar and told the guest priest...FUNERAL SERVICE...NO MASS.
Id like to know how much a funeral in that cathedral costs . Maybe they skipped the hard questions to rake in the money . The whole circus stinks to high heaven . The priest should have removed the image of cecilia depicted as a saint amoung other other obvious blunders . Makes me wonder how Padre Pio would have dealt with it .
Yup, downplayed and lots of excuses offered. I'm sort of thinking that if the attending priest were to have made ANY attempt at all, in that huge crowd, to put a stop to what was happening, they would have become violent...VERY violent; and perhaps even would have destroyed the church or harmed people. The people there seemed to be in an immensely aggressive disposition; set out to "prove something to the world". It was a grotesque mockery of the Lord, which, may have required turning the other cheek in the moment in the midst of the mob because there was no way to predict the impact to the property or to those present who were innocent of the ultimate intention of those people. Yes, it should have never started and it appears that there was a great deal of deception involved. I'm not discrediting the fact that appropriate stewardship has been overlooked. I'm primarily referring to the fact that once overlooked, and upon finding one's self in the situation, the aggressiveness of the mob would have held heavy impact over the ability to simply attempt to send people away. I've been watching the attitudes of these mobs over the last few years and they would have ripped that place to pieces and loved every minute of the opportunity to have an excuse to do it. The place was targeted. The scheduling party "kept it under raps". In fact, they appeared to be even attempting and hoping that such a riot would have exploded because they were ready. In this regard, the crowd did NOT get its opportunity to tear down the place or harm the people. All they got was a disgusting display; which is nothing that cannot be repaired in humble penitence and reparation. The only positive thing is that now EVERYONE knows how loosely things are being managed there and those who have been trying to push for improvement now have much stronger evidence to point at to hopefully get people to take or allow appropriate action and restraint more in alignment with Church teaching.
I totally agree with you. They wanted a riot and the excuse to do great harm and damage. They didn't care at all about having a religious service for the deceased.
Its about now that one wonders if the whip needs to be dusted off. Jesus was visibly angry at people making the synagogue a market place. This was even worse. This should not be allowed.
No surprise that good ole boy Dolan responds with snark and condescension. He's all about projecting a false charm until he is resisted, then, true character or lack thereof presents himself. Pope Francis punishes faithful bishops. Where is the response now? There won't be.
The accuser of the brethren is loose in the Church . Pray lest we fall into temptation. Hopefully Church staff around the world has learned a lesson from this .
Does those Priests and Bishops understand the Blasphemous words those Transgenders and LGBT were shouting out mad loud in the Altar I mean in the ALTART. Anybody who say they love God could see how disrespectful and sacrilege it’s was. Has He asked himself what does God think about it!
I know this is sad and a very difficult time for the Catholics but we can’t undo the past so please let’s stand united and pray for God‘s forgiveness ❤❤❤❤
13:31 The absence of such a response shows how broke our Church is, that they flatter such people who I am sure paid a lot of money to stage their sacrilege.😢
Michael. … THANK YOU! I am grateful that you have called out the Cardinal’s rationalizing and, yes, dismissive response to the St Pat’s fiasco. Similar rationalizations were made by Cardinal Dolan when Fox News asked if he would preclude then Governor, Andrew Cuomo, from receiving Holy Communion, following his signing into law the state’s limitless partial birth abortion legislation, (while also living with his girlfriend, outside of marriage.) Cardinal Dolan punted, saying his sphere of influence did not include upstate New York (Albany), and that it was up to “us” to do something about the governor, saying, “what are you going to do about it”, pointing to the camera. So much for his eminence’s leadership. Ray P. Long Island
It is difficult to believe that those who schedule funerals at St. Patrick's did not know, at least by the day before the service, who "Cecilia" was, as this person was famous (infamous?) in NYC, and a quick computer search would reveal all. As the cameras were set up (who requests this for a private service?) and they obiviously were prepared for a huge gathering, I suspect they were trying to seem all-embracing, as well as raking in what must have been a substantial donation. They got caught, and got what they deserve. However, God did not get what He deserves, He was blasphemed. I hope that full penance is done by those responsible for the desecration.
Why do you feel the need to lie like this? You are accusing me of being dishonest but it is you who is dishonest. There are plenty of things Francis says I don’t defend. Go to confession dude.
I agree Dolan is being too dismissive and it does fuel the rad Trads. But we’re also by harping on this fueling the outrage culture that we have become.
@@reasonandtheology What I'm trying to say is that the LGBT community intended to draw outrage. This is their game and we're submitting to it. This is how their inspire their followers, and then the rad trads return with outrage and inspire their followers. In the end, it crowds out reason. This is the cycle of the 21st century, ever since the internet came around.
The rosary was said outside the church the other day for the blasphemous sacrilege in the church and not 1 priest or nune was outside with the faithful praying the rosary for reparations AND THAT'S A DISGRACE !
Maybe they had their own prior obligations that they needed to take care of? Maybe they did their own private reparations? Maybe they didn’t know until the last minute and couldn’t be there? Just saying, that clergy and nuns are constantly busy and have other things and places to be. Yeah, you can cry about how “IMPORTANT” the rosary was, but what if a priest had to go administer sacraments to the dying, a religious group had a prison ministry they had to go to and couldn’t reschedule, there was a mandatory retreat they needed to attend, they were distributing food and items to those in need, etc. New York is a big, busy place and the Church is always operating ‘under staffed’ when it comes to clergy and religious. Perhaps put yourself in their collars and habits before tearing down priests and nuns who work tirelessly and sometimes thanklessly 24/7.
@jendoe9436 What happened in the church was a disgrace and should have never happened. The saints and the martyrs are turning in their graves because of this evil Set your heart on things that are above and not the things of this world. Be Holy as your heavenly Father is Holy
"The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9
The priest not standing up to stop everything once the eulogies were started. And hearing this sacrilege. I don’t understand why not one of our faithful stood up. It makes my stomach turn.
I think people are making too much of this. Hundreds if not thousands of funerals have taken place at St. Patrick’s and this is the first sacrilege that I know of. It’s not like this happens regularly or even remotely. Let’s give them the benefit of a human mistake.
Cardinal Dolan seems to have been very sarcastic; most inappropriate comment. This was a horrid & horrifying sacrilege. We have some really weak clergy, who don’t stand up for Jesus & His Church. They need to go!
Consider for a moment that Cardinal Dolan's statements may be from a defensive position, and that he might be buying time pending further investigation. I am not saying that they were wise statements, and although they may sound dismissive, we cannot presume that Cardinal Dolan is not taking the situation seriously. In hindsight, the priest could probably have handled the situation more assertively, but consider that he was caught by surprise and had to act off the cuff. Although this blasphemy is shameful, and further action and reparation is required at this point, and we need to prepare for future political stunts, we need to be careful about our judgements of the individuals. Besides, I don't google the backgrounds of everybody I meet, and I don't think every Church does this for every funeral.
Right. It's very gloomy. Bc only select or VIP people have services at St. Pats. I have lost respect for Dolan now. I will no longer be stopping in to St. Pats when I'm in town.
For anyone to get a funeral mass at saint pats is hard and costs an arm and leg.....dolan has a lot to answer...more so bscause this occurs during his cardinals appeal..
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I really don't understand how an atheist's funeral can take place in a Catholic cathedral. I'm with you Michael. I'm very disappointed by Cardinal Dolan's response. Whoever allowed this funeral inside St Patrick Cathedral would have to resign!
I totally agree 👍
the person who died was a baptized Catholic. so whether they were atheist or not, they are entitled to a catholic funeral. There was no Mass. we as onlookers, do not know the state of their soul at death. they may or may not have been meeting with a priest about their sins.
@user-fk9bq1ms5h it extremely hard to get a funeral mass at Saint Pat's. This was allowed!!! Dolan has a lot to answer for, even more so during his Cardinals appeal.
The priest were not informed of who this person, her group were. They were only asked by the family if her funeral could be held.
This person talking is dragging priest through the mud. This talking head, doesn't know if she made reparation to God before death.
@@dg.262
during covid, NO ONE had a funeral mass.
This was evil and disgusting to the core.
I stand with you Michael. We need an apology as Catholics
Yes. And we need to do A LOT of reparation for all this. 😔🛐
His Eminence, Cardinal Dolan, needs to retire, please
He should fire Father Daugherty. If he does not, then I agree with you that he should retire.
I watched it. Because I could not believe I was seeing.because the LGBT have so much power and had haslaw protection. It was Santanic the words were disgusting did he sit through the program and see it. the concern people had was the Mocking calling the dead person after Saint Celia the Whore the Queen its was slime the actions the mocking words I won't go on 1st he should have watched the film that was taken of the everdence then judge it Bishop Dolan before answering any words to the public . We have sympathy for the parish people these days nothing is protected anymore. Legislatiion is passed and Family's Even life is not safe . Anne Marie
The priest there made a joke that the church was more filled now than on Easter. That’s extremely denigrating to the faithful.
If that's true, it says more about us than it does about them.
Well, there is some truth to that. A lot of Catholics don’t consistency fulfill their mass obligations, only showing up around major holy days. Not to mention lack of parish involvement in community events and orgs which brings things down even more.
I know people who say they’re Catholic, but don’t go to mass for a variety of reasons (such as ‘no time’ or ‘I don’t like the priest there’ but don’t bother going anywhere else).
If the parishioners at the cathedral were more involved, then there might have been a stronger presence there to better weed out bad actors. As it is, you have a limited admin staff probably already struggling with current operations and little assistance from others.
I think everyone is missing the point. There seems to be an infection within the leadership in the sense they are tough on the sheep and tender with the wolves.maybe it’s Gods way to sanctify the faithful further. And call closer those who are already within the fold
There is a saying in the bible that says we must be sober and on alert for the devil roams around like a lion. The clergy were asleep on the job. Background checks need to be put in place for everyone now. I just want to say something to regarding people who are not Catholics just walking into Catholic Church’s and Cathedrals and taking part in the sacraments. You are quite welcome to partake in the Mass and even join us in our prayer groups, lectures and recite the rosary prayer with us however you can not get up to receive the body of Christ during Mass that’s only reserved for Catholics. You have to be in a state of grace as well. So many Catholics treat it like it’s a right. Non Catholics can’t go to confession either or get married or have a funeral at a Catholic Church. Every man woman and child is treating the sacraments and the dogma of the Catholic Church like it’s a rubbish dump. I think large notices need to be put up outside churches to remind people off the street that we Catholics take our faith very seriously. By all means people can become Catholics if they want. But please do not disrespect our faith. It’s not a cafeteria where you just walk in and have what you feel like.
The LGBT response shows they must always be resisted.
Don't be alarmed now, this is what people were foreseeing will happen,
So, welcome the LGBT, Bless them, by and by they will come to God.
I watched a few minutes into the video. It's so upsetting to me, I don't even know if I can watch the entire thing. I just don't understand how they could have allowed this funeral for this man to take place there.
Dolan is only upset that Catholics are upset. His objective was met; now he just needs to put lipstick on it. Liberal Mission accomplished.
Michael, Thank you for this As a Catholic New Yorker I am troubled by this event. It is so clear that the organizers of the funeral intended to to commit fraud and thats unfortunate. I am supremely concerned by the pore judgement of the Cathedral staff who allowed themselves to be duped. And I am upset with the Cardinal who appears to approve of the priest poor judgement and lack of courage. I intend to write to the Nunciature to express my displeasure and demand he get involved. I hope I am not alone in this effort. Cardinal Dolan is one of if not the preeminent U.S Cardinals and his flock deserves better then this.
The microphones should have been shut down immediately. I agree the entire charade was a deliberate action of sacriledge on behalf of enemies of the Church and must never ever again.
Dolan must Go where he knows he should go. FBI checks who on Earth does that. He speaks with fork tongue like the said in old western movies. He should be out out no mention completely EXPELLED he started this when he to to the streets with them ost. Patrick's Day parade. n
This is disgraceful. Isn’t this one of the gravest sins against the Holy Spirit? God help us!
This is the culture now. It's not disgraceful anymore...it's so common I call it....
...Wednesday.
The USCCB took their eyes off the ball in the 1980s...and this is the result.
Mark my words...there will be people having s3x on an altar soon.
Based on this information I would have to, sadly, say Shame on you Cardinal Dolan.
"liturgy of the world" has to be the best Freudian slip
It's not a Freudian slip, but just a 'slip'.
I just think that disciplinary action needs to be taken as well from Rome regarding this. For all the clergy involved. And a formal apology is not enough
Disciplinary action in what form? It's clear that they were blindsided by this madness. The magisterium should take this very seriously and provide further instruction to their parish officials as to how to prevent this from happening in the future, but they did shut down the Mass before the Liturgy of the Eucharist, when they realized their mistake. What good would it do to come down so hard on the priests - who are probably already beating themselves up - for being blindsided, other than making you and I feel good about ourselves? That's not the Christian thing to do. Further instruction? YES. Disciplinary action? That seems like it would only be an act of vengeance on our part.
Just for clarification, I'm as appalled by this is you are. What I hope you realize is this: Division is exactly what the devil wants in the Church, the same type of division this group of deviants is trying to perpetuate. Don't take the bait. Love your brother. Forgive his mistakes. Expect more next time. If it becomes a trend, THEN we've got a serious issue that would require disciplinary action.
@@ignatiusjackson235 I do appreciate this response. However the dismissive response was what prompted me to see that they may have not felt it was a mistake and therefore may repeat the same thing all over again. But you’re right. Sometimes I wonder if we were in the shoes of those priests what kind of courage and assertiveness would I or anyone else had practiced then. I guess take out the log from one’s eye before the dust from the other
@@ynmm3798 Precisely. I'm glad that you are able to see that. It demonstrates a great deal of humility on your part, brother. I was very suspicious at first, too, due to the way the story was first reported to me. However, the fact that they DID shut down the service before the Liturgy of the Eucharist took place convinced me that there was no ill intention on behalf of the priests involved. God bless, and thank you for your understanding!
I had to vive Baptism certificate for my brother in law before they would do a funeral Mass for him.
Has there been any response from the Vatican? this evil event deserves condemnation from the highest level.🙏🇬🇧
Thank you so much for speaking truth. May the Lord bless you and your work.
I cannot get over the profanity being yelled near the altar and the audience yelling back and screaming as if they were possessed. These acts cannot be justified and these actions will remain with that priest and Dolan forever .
There is a lot of bad bishops right now
As I understand it - the background of the deceased [ being an atheist etc.]is already known well before the funeral was held, so it
a serious error of judgment was definitely made by whoever was responsible to monitor all religious events held in St.Patrick's Cathedral. If the supporters of the deceased wanted to hold the funeral to draw public attention to whatever causes or issues they are promoting, they could always do it at Central Park , Rockefeller Centre Ice Rink or some other public venues of their choice, but not St. Patrick's Cathedral of all places. That was truly an insulting sacrilege and totally unacceptable.
I'm a Protestant who might convert to Catholicism and found this super disheartening. How is it that I, low church Protestant, cares more about what happened than the Cardinal...
This is not uncommon. You may also know more theology than some bishops. Don’t be shocked.
Come home to Christ and you can receive the Eucharist who is Jesus Christ
Cardinal Dolan needs to give his resignation
Respect the House of God was taught to us at an early age i.e., from no talking in Church, to genuflecting before one entered the pew, to using the sign of the Cross when passing the Church, and dozens of other mannerisms to outwardly show we are Catholics recognizing God’s House and all that entails in the Faith. The World today puts Sodom and Gomorrah to shame when it comes to blasphemy and sacrilege for the Catholic Faith.
Exactly the way i was taught as well. Christs presence, body, blood, soul and divinity in the tabernacle was always highlighted and continually stressed to us during chatechism, that till today i am conscious of HIM as i set foot into HIS house. This was absolutely a slap in the faces of many faithful followers of Christ.
Surely our Holy Mother's Immaculate Heart is broken again with this terrible incident at St Patrick's
I agree with you Michael
It was shameful behaviour all round 😮
True story, the most sloppy and irreverent Mass I have ever been to was at St. Patricks in 2022.
Thank God there was no liturgy of the Eucharist. Imagine the opportunity for sacrilege.
This comes across as dismissive to the importance to the Word in the word.
@@reasonandtheology It's not. I'm thinking of all the ways the Eucharist can be profaned.
bishop dolan also allowed catholic liturgical vestments used during a red carpet event for another sacrilegious act at the Met gala his apologies then where just as pathetic
How in the world does a non-Catholic get a funeral in a Catholic church???
Yep during covid the churches were closed and no funeral mass either
PRAY for Cardinal DOLAN
God bless the Priest who told the visiting Priest, who was performing the service, "No Funeral Mass".
This Priest who said "No Funeral Mass was very courageous, especially in these times where Faithful Priest are mocked and punished, for being faithful Priest.
It makes it very hard to evangelize the teachings of our faith when our church allows such irreverence within the thresholds of our church. The clergy at St. Patrick’s needs to be accountable for allowing such sacrilege to before the Holy tabernacle. My wife is a newly convert to our faith and is questioning why we allow such activities to occur in our church. Hard to explain why?
Very sarcastic comment from Dolan……So smug. Cathedral needs an Exorcism.
Our small local church, as members of, we had to meet and discuss what we could have at 2funerals, and 2 marriages. They were very careful about what we could do. I can’t believe they didn’t do that with this huge event
I can only imagine how difficult it may have been to the staff at the cathedral to realize the sacrilege it was taking place but changing from the liturgy of the Eucharist to a simple service was the right thing to do. Just imagine how they would be accusing the church of hate if they would have been asked to stop and just leave the church?
That's actually an incredible point. As a Catholic, I'm outraged that it happened at all, but the charitable assumption here is yours, and I agree. Had they celebrated they Eucharist, though, I would expect far more than a simple apology from Timothy Dolan. That's an important distinction to make. Michael Lofton really should have made that clear in his FIRST video, frankly.
I really am so disappointed. NYC is in a bad place right now.. not sure what will happen next
Sad
Who requested to have this person to have a "funeral" at the cathedral? Why did the presiding priest not to do anything? Was he in shock and didn't know what to do? Could it be these irreverent people used it to come on the Church to be sacrilegious?
Of course. The entire idea was to mock God in His church.
He also was walking in pride march parade
Well the Cathedral is being sued apparently by the family of the deceased. Cardinal Dolan has been a disgrace for years and years
Trenchant observations. I will confess that when Cardinal Dolan was elevated to his present position I perceived him to be orthodox in belief and practice. I watched him interviewed on television shortly thereafter and was left with an uneasy feeling insofar as his comportment and demeanor struck me as one who may like the limelight with all the character traits appurtenant thereto. So, the rather dismissive response, unfortunately, does not surprise me. As to the outrage of the decedent’s entourage, I’m afraid their actions smack of a very well orchestrated ambush. Their arguments are insulting to the intellect. The teachings of the Catholic Church are unambiguous. The deceased consciously rejected The Church, and their atheism was well known. Those who organized the event, and I dare say nearly everyone in attendance, reject The Church, or I should say, The Church as it has defined itself heretofore. To think that one has a right to make an institution for which one has, de facto, made one’s enemy defies logic and reason. If the New York Ballet attends a Yankee’s game, and is escorted from the field because they insist on performing The Nutcracker Suite in center field while the game is being played, can they argue that the Yankee’s violated league rules by denying their right to attend the game?
What creates Taylormarshals is not episodes like this one, but the lack of response from Vatican to them.
Well said Michael. There is being 'nice & welcoming' & then there is what happened in St Patricks. There's a good reason why we were told to be wise as serpents & gentle as doves. This could have been avoided, but unfortunately it looks like some cowardice was at play & certainly not wisdom. 😢
Any other Sacrament or Liturgy celebrated in parishes I've served in had at least a perfunctory investigation into those who were participating in it or for whom it was celebrated or offered for. Baptisms, the parents and godparents are inquired if they are practicing Catholics, if at least one parent is Catholic (and if the other is non-Catholic, they agree to raise the infant of child as a Catholic) that the godparents are practicing Catholics. For First communion and Confirmation we check to see that the person is baptized. For Marriage not just inquiry into the religion and if those to be married are not members of the Parish, that the Pastor of the woman's parish permits a priest in another parish which she does not belong to the Jurisdiction over one who's soul is under his care. Deacons and priests not only have to have all previous sacraments and investigation if there is a recorded marriage reported to the parish where the man was baptized (Latin Rite canon law) and investigation into his spiritual, moral and educational fitness to be ordained. So too if someone from outside the parish wished to be buried with a public Mass or Burial, at the very least the parish of record for the deceased would be contacted to notify them of the death, and inquire if there were any known impediments.
Yup I'm sort of stuck in the old ways of doing things that I was trained in, and many may out of laziness or ignorance skip these basic steps, no FBI checks are done, but a few simple phone calls or a certified baptismal certificate are easy to obtain.
Lazy response from his Eminence Cardinal Dolan. Sloppy work from St. Patrick’s Cathedral on not verifying the legitimacy of the deceased.
I understand that we don’t want to be legalists but…Com’on man! There are some basic and fundamental things that need to be verified.
We’re going to see a Tsunami 🌊 wave of lazy dismissive behavior and argumentation from this point on regard all kinds of topics regarding the Faith now.
This is such bad witness and scandal, the whole world is watching (I'm in Slovakia btw), not just Catholics but what can we now say to non-Catholics or non Christians if we don't even hold to our own standards and are not willing to speak the truth in love and follow our own (not to say God's) rules. This is anything but true love. Are we not supposed to be the light and salt of the world?
Thank you for addressing this in a truthful and revealing way ..
Doesn't this call into question whether Cardinal Dolan can receive ecclesiastical funeral rights? He's really pushing 1184-3 to the limits in my opinion.
Indeed immmoral and inappropriate...a desecration of holy places
Can you IMAGINE Bishop Sheen seen this happen
What is Rome doing about this?
Nothing.
Nothing
Egregious? Yes. Surprising? No, unfortunately, not anymore.
Sad
@@reasonandtheology At least this sadness is fitting for this time of year. I’m thankful for how much simpler it will be to pray the Sorrowful Mysteries this evening.
I've been studying the current culture for 12 years...all aspects. NOTHING surprises me anymore. It's just me checking off events on my list of predictions. We are 2 years ahead of my schedule...and you wouldn't believe what's coming in the next two years.
The Church is completely unprepared to deal with any of it.
He MUST RESIGN! He is a disgraced cardinal and a disgrace to our Catholic Faith! How can this go go on? What are we supposed to think? May God have mercy on all of us!
He won’t resign and his successor likely won’t be different.
Thanks for your wonderful comment on the sacrilegious funeral. Your observations are quite correct.
Thanks
Now that we hear about the findings, incompetence requires four people to be demoted and do reparation: from the chain of command- the head, the pastor, the priest who officiated and the administrative secretary.
Delaying action will only prolong the agony.
Give our Lord and Saviour the respect we creatures owe God.
Jesus says it is a narrow path to heaven but he showed us how to do it.
And as I understand it Jesus conveyed the strict requirements and yes, it requires courage.
There is no place to hide!
You are 100% right on. I would not be able to have my funeral at St. Patricks. I believe this was planned. I believe the priest actually doing the service was not a member of St. Patricks but a " guest priest". He fully intended to do a Mass. A priest named Rev. Salvo (a member of St. Patricks) went up to the altar and told the guest priest...FUNERAL SERVICE...NO MASS.
Id like to know how much a funeral in that cathedral costs . Maybe they skipped the hard questions to rake in the money . The whole circus stinks to high heaven . The priest should have removed the image of cecilia depicted as a saint amoung other other obvious blunders . Makes me wonder how Padre Pio would have dealt with it .
Yup, downplayed and lots of excuses offered. I'm sort of thinking that if the attending priest were to have made ANY attempt at all, in that huge crowd, to put a stop to what was happening, they would have become violent...VERY violent; and perhaps even would have destroyed the church or harmed people. The people there seemed to be in an immensely aggressive disposition; set out to "prove something to the world".
It was a grotesque mockery of the Lord, which, may have required turning the other cheek in the moment in the midst of the mob because there was no way to predict the impact to the property or to those present who were innocent of the ultimate intention of those people.
Yes, it should have never started and it appears that there was a great deal of deception involved. I'm not discrediting the fact that appropriate stewardship has been overlooked. I'm primarily referring to the fact that once overlooked, and upon finding one's self in the situation, the aggressiveness of the mob would have held heavy impact over the ability to simply attempt to send people away. I've been watching the attitudes of these mobs over the last few years and they would have ripped that place to pieces and loved every minute of the opportunity to have an excuse to do it. The place was targeted. The scheduling party "kept it under raps". In fact, they appeared to be even attempting and hoping that such a riot would have exploded because they were ready. In this regard, the crowd did NOT get its opportunity to tear down the place or harm the people. All they got was a disgusting display; which is nothing that cannot be repaired in humble penitence and reparation.
The only positive thing is that now EVERYONE knows how loosely things are being managed there and those who have been trying to push for improvement now have much stronger evidence to point at to hopefully get people to take or allow appropriate action and restraint more in alignment with Church teaching.
I totally agree with you. They wanted a riot and the excuse to do great harm and damage. They didn't care at all about having a religious service for the deceased.
We have to help one another save our own souls and others’ .
And they wonder why the pews are empty. 😢
People recognize when the clergy are not taking them seriously.
Its about now that one wonders if the whip needs to be dusted off. Jesus was visibly angry at people making the synagogue a market place. This was even worse. This should not be allowed.
No surprise that good ole boy Dolan responds with snark and condescension. He's all about projecting a false charm until he is resisted, then, true character or lack thereof presents himself. Pope Francis punishes faithful bishops. Where is the response now? There won't be.
The accuser of the brethren is loose in the Church . Pray lest we fall into temptation.
Hopefully Church staff around the world has learned a lesson from this .
For what reason did. Bishop allowed such?/maybe they paid him.
What is happening to the Catholic church? So very sad.
Thank you, Michael. Well said 👍🏼
My pleasure!
I appreciate your insight. I am inspired by your intellect. However, I love that you always provide receipts.
My favorite thing about this show.
Does those Priests and Bishops understand the Blasphemous words those Transgenders and LGBT were shouting out mad loud in the Altar I mean in the ALTART. Anybody who say they love God could see how disrespectful and sacrilege it’s was. Has He asked himself what does God think about it!
The Catholic church has too much scandal. Now I am free in Jesus, praise God and God's blessings to you❤
The priest sat trough the hole carnival...
His response worst than the event, seems he even didn't take an action with un responsible priest .
I know this is sad and a very difficult time for the Catholics but we can’t undo the past so please let’s stand united and pray for God‘s forgiveness ❤❤❤❤
Absolutely agree. Terrible.
That being said, I appreciate your points and this is an important discussion.
Diabolic
13:31 The absence of such a response shows how broke our Church is, that they flatter such people who I am sure paid a lot of money to stage their sacrilege.😢
Thank you.
Pope Pius would have gotten rid of Dolan if he refused to repent and get things back in order
Michael. … THANK YOU!
I am grateful that you have called out the Cardinal’s rationalizing and, yes, dismissive response to the St Pat’s fiasco.
Similar rationalizations were made by Cardinal Dolan when Fox News asked if he would preclude then Governor, Andrew Cuomo, from receiving Holy Communion, following his signing into law the state’s limitless partial birth abortion legislation, (while also living with his girlfriend, outside of marriage.)
Cardinal Dolan punted, saying his sphere of influence did not include upstate New York (Albany), and that it was up to “us” to do something about the governor, saying, “what are you going to do about it”, pointing to the camera.
So much for his eminence’s leadership.
Ray P. Long Island
It is difficult to believe that those who schedule funerals at St. Patrick's did not know, at least by the day before the service, who "Cecilia" was, as this person was famous (infamous?) in NYC, and a quick computer search would reveal all. As the cameras were set up (who requests this for a private service?) and they obiviously were prepared for a huge gathering, I suspect they were trying to seem all-embracing, as well as raking in what must have been a substantial donation. They got caught, and got what they deserve. However, God did not get what He deserves, He was blasphemed. I hope that full penance is done by those responsible for the desecration.
Good thing pope Francis didn't say it otherwise Mike would have to defend it 😂
Why do you feel the need to lie like this? You are accusing me of being dishonest but it is you who is dishonest. There are plenty of things Francis says I don’t defend. Go to confession dude.
Straw men excuses
Come on you tell me Dolan and the Priest didnt know
So sad. The entire thing is a disgrace. How low Christianity has fallen. And we wonder why people are leaving in droves.
I agree Dolan is being too dismissive and it does fuel the rad Trads. But we’re also by harping on this fueling the outrage culture that we have become.
I’m not harping on this. Don’t gaslight.
@@reasonandtheology What I'm trying to say is that the LGBT community intended to draw outrage. This is their game and we're submitting to it. This is how their inspire their followers, and then the rad trads return with outrage and inspire their followers. In the end, it crowds out reason. This is the cycle of the 21st century, ever since the internet came around.
I think Cardinal Dolan should quit
Roland should have been forced to resign a long time ago. May God have mercy on him.
The rosary was said outside the church the other day for the blasphemous sacrilege in the church and not 1 priest or nune was outside with the faithful praying the rosary for reparations AND THAT'S A DISGRACE !
Maybe they had their own prior obligations that they needed to take care of? Maybe they did their own private reparations? Maybe they didn’t know until the last minute and couldn’t be there?
Just saying, that clergy and nuns are constantly busy and have other things and places to be. Yeah, you can cry about how “IMPORTANT” the rosary was, but what if a priest had to go administer sacraments to the dying, a religious group had a prison ministry they had to go to and couldn’t reschedule, there was a mandatory retreat they needed to attend, they were distributing food and items to those in need, etc.
New York is a big, busy place and the Church is always operating ‘under staffed’ when it comes to clergy and religious. Perhaps put yourself in their collars and habits before tearing down priests and nuns who work tirelessly and sometimes thanklessly 24/7.
@jendoe9436
What happened in the church was a disgrace and should have never happened. The saints and the martyrs are turning in their graves because of this evil Set your heart on things that are above and not the things of this world. Be Holy as your heavenly Father is Holy
"The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9
The priest not standing up to stop everything once the eulogies were started. And hearing this sacrilege. I don’t understand why not one of our faithful stood up. It makes my stomach turn.
I think people are making too much of this. Hundreds if not thousands of funerals have taken place at St. Patrick’s and this is the first sacrilege that I know of. It’s not like this happens regularly or even remotely. Let’s give them the benefit of a human mistake.
I think you are taking this too lightly.
Where’s the previous video on the sacrilege at the funeral? I can’t find it
Cardinal Dolan seems to have been very sarcastic; most inappropriate comment. This was a horrid & horrifying sacrilege. We have some really weak clergy, who don’t stand up for Jesus & His Church. They need to go!
Consider for a moment that Cardinal Dolan's statements may be from a defensive position, and that he might be buying time pending further investigation. I am not saying that they were wise statements, and although they may sound dismissive, we cannot presume that Cardinal Dolan is not taking the situation seriously. In hindsight, the priest could probably have handled the situation more assertively, but consider that he was caught by surprise and had to act off the cuff. Although this blasphemy is shameful, and further action and reparation is required at this point, and we need to prepare for future political stunts, we need to be careful about our judgements of the individuals.
Besides, I don't google the backgrounds of everybody I meet, and I don't think every Church does this for every funeral.
Right. It's very gloomy. Bc only select or VIP people have services at St. Pats.
I have lost respect for Dolan now. I will no longer be stopping in to St. Pats when I'm in town.
Why are we surprised. Look what the Pope Allows
I agree
He needs to look at the St Francis Church on 31st Street they are full on alphabet people Masses and ministry just for them
I hope this will not happen in Australia
Is it possible for the Cardinal to be fired being that he double downs?
For anyone to get a funeral mass at saint pats is hard and costs an arm and leg.....dolan has a lot to answer...more so bscause this occurs during his cardinals appeal..