@@GitanAnimex Ryan Gosling and Rachel McAdams were probably my favorite example of this. Andrew Garfield and Emma Stone were also pretty darn cute. And probably most infamous of the 2010s: Robert Pattinson and Kristen Stewart.😂
I am so mixed here. First, as someone in a video said: consent is sexy. Focusing on only kissing here. Say what you want about the sex and the city reboot, but the ending of the finale got me thinking. She did not like being asked to kiss one guy because she found it to be like a contract: which it isn’t. But she did not feel like that with another guy because it was a sexy nonverbal consensual kiss. My question is how do you feel about this? Body language can only do so much which is why we ask to make sure there are no misunderstandings. I feel I would want to be asked the first or second time (kiss wise) and than allow the others to be spontaneous, but that is just me. What about you guys?
this reminded me about the time my high school crush asked me to fake date to make their ex jealous and I said no bc I knew it would hurt my feelings 😭💀 14 year old me was very responsable tho
Heres my guess: A lot of people secretly like their friends, so they like the fantasy where you "push the boundaries" by fake dating, then "oopsie, we fell in love". It's like balancing on an edge, then you fall off, and land in love.
@@savesoil3133 teenagers do. Like I had a friend who asked me to fake date him when we were 15 to make his ex jealous but after school graduation that he actually genuinely liked me but didn’t know how to start dating
One of my favorite tropes of fake dating is when the not-couple discuss PDA and romantic gestures. They practice privately before. It allows more vulnerability and openness between each other. Good communication works better with this trope. They fool everyone else, not each other. There can be way more consent than in usual situations. It doesn't "kill the mood" to discuss boundaries. It makes sense and is considered thoughtful.
god i love it when the not-couple communicates. the combination of friends to lovers and fake dating is one of my absolute favourite tropes because of that reason. like as friends, they’re more comfortable to discuss these things first, so it’s always nice to know that whatever they’re doing has received both their consent. and i agree that it doesn’t kill the mood. if anything, them being friends adds way more romantic tension because both sides wanna keep their platonic friendship but also wanna take it further. freaking chef’s kiss.
this video made me realize how often fake dating goes hand in hand with enemies to lovers and now I very desperately need a fake dating that is best friends to lovers. the secret yearning, the pining, the emotional conflict..... I need it. If anyone has recs please let me know I am STARVING
Consent not ruins the moment in the books/movies. The writers really need to see that. There is a musical part (green green dress) in the movie tick, tick...BOOM! The characters asks his girlfriends consent while singing and she says yes while building more tention. I was so happy to see that and it was so well done. I wish there are more examples like that
THIS and the “we have to get married for plot reasons” fantasy equivalent give me so much life. Call it stupid, call it unimaginative. it fuels my blood.
I just want to say ‘The duff’ was not a fake dating story, he was her popular neighbour AND childhood friend. And the deal was that he would help her become more social and be able to date her crush in return for her helping with his homework. It was more matchmaker than fake dating. They never fake dated.
Came here for this! Haha. And the book was vastly better and not at all like the movie. They took an interesting enemies to lovers concept and watered it down to something unrecognizable from the source material.
The kiss quotient was steamy as hell but also had great consent (from what I remember) starting with a full contract listing all of the sexual acts they would explore in their “lessons” haha
As someone that got with their bf through fake dating (it was for a prank) I can tell you the vulnerability thing is spot on. Thinking about telling him I had a crush on him made me queasy, but by pretending to date it made expressing myself a lot easier, as I already knew he liked me enough to at least pretend to be with me.
it’s worth noting that the motive dani has to agreeing to the fake relationship is that she’s seeking a purely sexual relationship (with her own convoluted emotional issues underlying this decision) that zafir consents to! it isn’t entirely one-sided :)
i think the appeal lies in 4 things: 1. the pining - when we know they’re into each other but they don’t know yet it’s just so goood 2. the enemies to friends to lovers of it all - we get to see them really appreciate each other as people instead of just aesthetically 3. I agree with the ‘we get to see them do relationshippy stuff throughout instead of for a brief moment at the end’ that’s a big plus for me 4. The comedy - this usually balances out the light angst of the pining really well I also would say the opposite thing with the consent issue - i love a good fake dating contract haha
I haven't read a lot of romance books but the ones I have read were on Wattpad (yeah, so don't expect much from the story I'm gonna reference lmao). There was this one fake dating (or more fake wedding) story that i really liked at the time, but looking back now, it was so problematic. Basically, there's this girl called Jenny. She's super tomboyish and independent and bold, all that jazz. She has a best friend who calls her one day, crying and saying that her dad is forcing her into a marriage. This best friend already has a lover but apparently the dad wants her to marry this super rich, cocky businessjerk. Jenny decides to go and talk to the guy (whose name is Jack) and convince him to turn down the offer. She goes to threaten Jack, who in turn falls in love with Jenny. But of course, he doesn't ask her out like a normal person. No, instead he says "okay, i won't marry your best friend, if you marry me instead". Jenny is furious, but ultimately agrees so that she can help her bestie. But the problem here is that for ¾th parts of the book, the romance is entirely one-sided and thus problematic. Jack forces kisses on Jenny, and even touched her body without her consent (because she wasn't talking to him and he wanted to make her talk), all while Jenny is completely uncomfortable with it and extremely angry. There's no scene where Jenny returns his advances or blushes, or shows any signs of liking him back. Not to mention, this happened in private too, where they didn't need to pretend. But of course, in the end, there's some drama and Jenny admits out of nowhere that she loves Jack and they start an actual married life together. Basically the definition of "sexually harrass your lover until they consent". It was horrible.
Yeah I hear about these types of stories all the time and I sit up because I think it must be written that way to confront that problem, but it ends up playing it straight more often than not. People go to some lengths to defend those ships too and rationalise them like "she actually secretly wanted him to flirt with her though" or "but they're happy and in love now" or "he got better". And you can like unhealthy fictional dynamics, but at least see and acknowledge them for what they are. Tbh throughout that whole description I was like "okay, so forget the man, when are Jenny and the friend gonna fall in love then?" And honestly that would have made the better story, even if it's just as predictable (depending on how gay your expectations are I guess lol). The whole "we pretended to be a same-sex couple so people would leave us alone and not try and set us up with anyone" has problems of its own, especially as it's based on deception of identity and a lot of the time they're both straight (and it wouldn't even make them less harassed sadly). But it's more interesting and less insulting if one or both of them realise they are actually queer in the process. Then there's the discovery of themselves literally too (though it shouldn't be tied to their relationship).
@@tinyblueunicorn7807 yeah, if it was written as a tongue in cheek gag, it'd be obvious but it's clear that the author actually intended for it to be romantic. and yes! though if I'm remembering correctly, the friend was also her cousin so sweet home alabama, if that's the situation lmao. but if they were just friends, i think they would have had more chemistry than they did with the male love interests. and i totally agree with your point. that specific trope could be written well if the author sticks to making it a queer romance and doesn't chicken out lol
My favorite version of the fake dating trope is when they are friends and they realize how good they are together. (Usually one or both has a crush on the other).
i the first time i read the title " the spanish love deception" i thought it was saying that spanish people love the process of deception and was like "wooooowww."
This video is such a NEED. There are sooo many books that are getting popular (in TikTok mainly) and are soo triggering with all the situation revolving around no consent. What are this books teaching young teenagers (or mainly those who have never been in a relationship), that it is ok not to ask to your partner/love-interest when surpassing their personal boundaries??? Thanks for putting a light on this ♥, your video is excellent
one thing I personally loved about fake dating trope when I was younger was specifically the opposite of the point about "no need to ask for consent". I don't remember much from "To all boys I loved before" but the scene that lives rent-free in my mind is Lara Jean and Peter writing a contract of what their fake dating entails. Especially at the time I didn't have many models of couples talking about boundaries and similar contracts in fake dating stories drew me to the trope, as it seemed like a way to prevent a romantic partner from doing something I was not comfortable with It took way too long for me to realise you could discuss boundaries with an actual romantic partner, not just a fake one 🤡
I’m totally late to the party, but The Duff is my favorite movie (I really don’t know why) and I’m pretty sure Bianca and Wesley do not have a fake relationship, he is supposed to help her become more desirable so that she can get with Toby. If there was fake dating, the scene where he makes her flirt with random guys in the mall wouldn’t make any sense as it could potentially expose their whole “relationship”. At least that’s the way I interpret the plot 🥰
That's what I was thinking lol It wasn't that they were fake dating, it's that Wes' bitchy ex thought they were dating or that B was trying to get with Wes, regardless no fake dating shenanigans just questionable dating advice lol
i like tatbib bc they had a contract to define their boundaries. Yeah boundaries were pushed before the contract but they were like hey that was wrong, lets talk about what we’re comfortable doing instead
I used the contract in "all the boys I loved before" in an advanced contract law exam to explain various contractual terms. I passed the exam so thanks Jenny han
i think my favorite concept for fake dating is where a gay (or aroace) man and a lesbian (or aroace woman) fake date and have an amazing friendship. never seen a book about this but it would be nice.
personally i find the fake dating trope better when they're already friends. i just think friends to lovers is always nice and makes the most sense to me - like they already know each other and are comfortable with each other; they're able to set boundaries and communicate. also it could be more believable to outsiders because it doesn't seem too sudden.
As a k-pop fan and a Thai BL drama fan, I sometimes think of fanservice between two idols/actors in a ship as a form of fake dating. They would be touching or sometimes even kissing each other (on the cheek), but it's basically for the show, to sell the idea of something romantic happening between them. (Of course, I know they are probably very comfortable and friendly with each other, but a lot of times it's really intentionally fanservice.)
Absolutely. The funny thing is that the vast majority of fans know that this type of fanservice exists, but may also ship the people involved at the same time and treat skinship as "proof". In general, it's honestly interesting how a lot of K-pop fans simultaneously understand the artificiality of idols and also engage with it as if it weren't artificial.
You randomly dropped that conversations with friends has a series and I didn't know??? Had to go watch the trailer immediately and now I'm exited but also back for the rest of your video. EDIT: finished watching - great analysis, especially of the consent situation. Thank you!
I know I'm late to the party, but here's a fake dating romance premise I just made up: A guy is the only person in his friend group who is still single, and his friends are bugging him about it. Because of his autism, it's very difficult for him to read social cues and understand what people want without near- constant verbal communication, and this makes dating very awkward. So he just doesn't have a love life. He's perfectly happy being single, but his friends hit him with the "you won't know if you like it until you try it" argument. Later, he talks with his sister's best friend and they agree to "practice date" which removes the risk involved in an actual relationship. The best friend wants to practice date the MC because she is in the process of adopting a little autistic boy. She has done tons of research but still wants to understand more. At the start of their relationship, both characters are very polite to each other, but eventually, things become tense. He feels like a bug under glass and resents her for thinking that all autistic people are the same and will display autistic traits in the same way regardless of age or personality. She thinks he's a coward for not pursuing an actual loving relationship, and a hypocrite because he defends the individuality of autistic people but thinks that all women are the same. Eventually, they learn to value their differences and understand the others' point of view. And, of course, they fall in love.
Such an interesting video! Loved the breakdown of fake dating vs normal romance with all the graphs and charts, so helpful to illustrate what you were saying and made me think about the trope in a completely new way!
You said about consent and forcing the other person in public and it reminded me of something that people actually do: proposing others in public when this person's not okay with it and making them feel uncomfortable of saying no. If the couple is okay with it I see no problem at all, but there are people like that would hate to be proposed in front of a lot of people.
Meet Cute Diary was the first book I read this year, back in April and March. It has this trope, and I think it is done well. I recommend as a funny romance with great LGBTQ+ representation. I read slowly, and have recently gotten back into reading. I gave the book 4 stars.
You should see Kdramas.. they have tons of fake dating/marriage of convenience ... right now I'm hooked on this manhwa "a match made in heaven by chance" where the couple decided to do a marriage of convenience under the pressure of their parents, not a lot of pretending tho, just the two of them growing to like each other..I think its one of the best in this troop rn....and they have little miscommunication since they made it a condition in the marriage contract to always communicate...
I very much want more romcom novels where the 2 mains fake date and DONT fall in love with eachother by the end. Instead, the people they ACTUALLY have a crush on see them dating and get all mopey and sad about it but are supportive while dyinh inside. Like- there's this one TGCF fanfic that does this and it's *chefs kiss*
Watching this made me realize that all the fake dating things I've liked start with the characters establishing the "rules" of the relationship. Like, they draw up a list of things they're comfortable with and things they're not and clearly establish the rules for social media and family involvement. This clear establishment of boundaries makes it so much more comfortable and interesting to read to me because then it's like a fun little bit between them.
great in-depth video on romance tropes, this makes me think of my comic, the focus is on having a crush on someone you don't want to like because you both have totally different perspectives on life, the person sees their crush, and feels weak and vulnerable soon they will have to confess their feelings.
in the love hypothesis olive tells her friend she's going out on a date and just chills at the lab. but when her friend walks in, she THEN kisses the first man she can see. still stupid but a bit better
oh my god this was so genius?? the way u said they can do relationshippy stuff while the tension builds as well as the plot makes sooooo much sense SBIIEOEBHO
@@timaxavier It took me months to finish this time and twice starting over like five years. It is not for the faint of heart! But power through--enjoy!
I never got the fake dating trope. The best thing about any romance is the drama the highs and lows of what it takes two characters to be together. But with the fake dating the trope the drama isn't really there since everyone thinks the two should be a couple already.
Personally, I am not a huge fan of fake dating. Maybe it's because this trope wasn't done well in the book I have read. If anyone wants to recommend a book or two, feel free to do so. ☺️
I really enjoyed devouring your opinions by details on this trope. Please, if you can, make it a series on the channel. The series' main idea is to gain an insight into the book community tropes or similar book community topics (in addition to discussing tropes). I believe the series will be brand new content on the booktube. It will be fantastic to host some of the other booktubers (again, if you are comfortable and able to do this) and like have a 35-45 mins discussion on the trends of the book community online once a month, as an example. It'll be so remarkable and thrilling to see how people interpret or observe the same thing (topic) differently, which gives a space for a variety of opinions either in the videos or in the comments below. Thank for you your content, Leonie. 💙 I am delighted every time I get a notification about a new upload. Keep it up! Good luck in getting your degree! YOU CAN GET IT!
I’m proud to say I’ve actually lived through this and have fake dated a guy to help him out and then we fell in love eTc etc then he left me and broke my heart 😻😻😻
I've fake dated. I took my ex-partner to prom to keep a promise and my parents didn't know we were broken up because it was recent then and I thought it would be less complicated if we just played the part in front of my parents. It was mega awkward, since both of us had moved on and I was already dating another person who was the +1 of one of my mates at the same prom, the same mate who was supposed to take my ex but that fell through when my ex and I started dating the week after he offered to take them, but we didn't just switch dates like normal people because my then-current partner - i.e. my friend's +1 - and I weren't public and didn't want to make our dates feel like the third and fourth wheel. So we ended up sharing a table with a couple from a different school who had to watch in abject horror as my ex and then-current partner conspired to make out with each other and roast me all night, overseen one table over by the only person I'd actually asked to go to prom with who turned me down and was probably pretty glad to have dodged the bullet, only for another person who didn't even know I was dating at all to shoot their shot with me at prom in front of everyone, which made me feel like a prick because they were nice but I had no idea they were even interested in me and their come-on flew totally over my head until they didn't show up to school the next Monday and their friend said something about it. What an amazing experience, one I wish I didn't have to cringe re-live like once a month in my mind every month or so for the rest of my life. Fake dating in real life is complicated, don't do it.
THE UNHONEYMOONERS BEING ON WOULD ACTUALLY CONSIDER YESS, i loved that book, the whole boat scene, they were hella cute 💫 from what i remember there was a part towards the end that pissed me off but still. also really love that you get to see them off the resort and not in the epilogue ✨
one of my favorite fake dating/marriage of convenience books is Electric Idol. the set-up is insane and but i love it and i think it does a great job of keeping conversations about consent within the story.
I love your discussion videos ! I was rewatching your other videos while starting a new puzzle and i was thinking about how excited I was for another discussion video, so this is perfect timing !!
someone should write a fake dating book where they're dating a friend or someone they don't like but like make it suuuuuper slow burn by making them actually be into someone completely different
I loved "The Love Hypothesis", but you make a good point I didn't think of before with Olive's friend forcing them to do all this stuff instead of them doing stuff to keep up the allusion. I'm cloudy on the consent thing. I really loved the fact that they met in the beginning, but she doesn't know because of her contacts, but he liked her when he first met her. I also liked that his harshness toward his peers was because he wanted good quality work to be out and not half-hearted stuff. He didn't know how else to say, "change it." Plus, the who thing with them being scientists were interesting, because I'm strictly a creative and not much of the other side. There are also the moment where she got burned by a co-worker who supported her work, that Adam idolized and appreciated and she decided to end it, because she couldn't stand the idea of Adam losing that and/or (don't quite remember) believe he won't believe her because of how high esteem he held for him. He dropped him when he heard the recording. I haven't read much fake dating books, but all of these elements just was so much fun for me to read. I didn't see moments being uncomfortable or whatever, but you mentioning it made me realize that, lol. Can't say it negates my enjoyment of the book, though. This video makes me want to write my own fake dating story XD Great video!
Hey Leoni Interesting funny oh how much😂, motivating, articulate, insightful... I love this content videos. You're ways of discussing the topics are clear and deep in concepts💕💕
This trope is so much. Can't Buy Me Love/Love Don't Cost a Thing, Bridgerton Season 1, Drive Me Crazy (movie), Mike and Dave Need Wedding Dates, How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days (humor me)... it really only rivals enemies-to-lovers for rom-com plots.
A movie which captures much of the joy of the fake dating trope without much of the baggage is While Your Were Sleeping. This 90's movie with Sandra Bullock and Bill Pullman is my favorite romantic comedy. Lucy has a crush on a man she sees on the train and ends up saving his life, then is refused from visiting him in the hospital because she's not family. A friendly nurse mishears Lucy talking to herself and brings her in into the hospital room, announcing her as his fiancee. He's in a coma and so can't correct the situation, and his family immediately loves her. This accidental-lie situation has Lucy fake dating an unconscious man, and so the mutual attraction between her and his brother (Bill Pullman) is taboo. Family events have them in lots of enforced proximity. The family dynamic of all the relatives and Lucy's loneliness are so wholesome-- it's simply the best romcom ever.
am I the only one who immediately thought of the Natasha/Yelena scene in Black Widow "it was real to me" when she mentioned how characters could deny stuff and then admit to it?
I really love your visual aid analysis materials. Saves authors many hours from trying to adopt or avoid tropes for stories in development. Are you still on the neuroscience track or did I get that wrong? It shows! Brilliant analysis of an area that is usually not examined like this. Keep up the great work.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
An example of fake dating in real life can actually be those actors who acted as a couple and then afterwards fall in love 😂
Nancy and jonathan actors
Mj and peter actors
The 100 main character 's actors
Mr and mrs smith
Jon Snow and that red headed lady
For example ????
@@GitanAnimex Ryan Gosling and Rachel McAdams were probably my favorite example of this. Andrew Garfield and Emma Stone were also pretty darn cute. And probably most infamous of the 2010s: Robert Pattinson and Kristen Stewart.😂
"Asking for consent will kill the mood"
- No Ben, you just have no game.
or rather, ben relies on playing games because he can't be sincere. :/
I also have no game and still wouldn't ever consider not asking for consent. Maybe Ben's just an idiot
Literally can't think of anything hotter than a lover who checks in with you before doing stuff
@@chiefpurrfect8389 The "Are you sure?" MAKES ME FALL TO MY KNEES
I am so mixed here.
First, as someone in a video said: consent is sexy.
Focusing on only kissing here.
Say what you want about the sex and the city reboot, but the ending of the finale got me thinking. She did not like being asked to kiss one guy because she found it to be like a contract: which it isn’t.
But she did not feel like that with another guy because it was a sexy nonverbal consensual kiss.
My question is how do you feel about this?
Body language can only do so much which is why we ask to make sure there are no misunderstandings.
I feel I would want to be asked the first or second time (kiss wise) and than allow the others to be spontaneous, but that is just me.
What about you guys?
The line "they hate each other, so of course we ship them" is so relatable
fr, like "drarry","pansmione","zinny" and ofcourse the one and only: "voldmione" 🤓
Depends on the couple.
@@asterisk_fr reylo for one thing, but is was a mixture of their hate, lust, and likeness for each other that made us ship them.
@@asterisk_fr and not to forget tomarry
@deepee Blaise Zabini but you didn’t hear that from me
this reminded me about the time my high school crush asked me to fake date to make their ex jealous and I said no bc I knew it would hurt my feelings 😭💀 14 year old me was very responsable tho
Good job having intergrity and foresight as an early teen!
that's really smart of you, good on you!!
I honestly don’t know if I would have had that strength lol I commend 14 to you
Oh wow.
So it cannnn happen in real life
Did everyone forget Hunger Games has this trope?
It’s the book that made me fall in love with the trope
The 100th like 😌
I didn't
omg im feeling so dumb cause i forgot it
Oh yeah....... How did i forget that it's like a major plot point 😅
Heres my guess:
A lot of people secretly like their friends, so they like the fantasy where you "push the boundaries" by fake dating, then "oopsie, we fell in love". It's like balancing on an edge, then you fall off, and land in love.
i dont think it necessarily has to be something you want for yourself irl for it to be a romcom/fanfic trope you enjoy tho
I like the way you described it. Like literally FALL OFF like Oopsie! I FELL.
Hm. Interesting! But ppl don't usually try any if these irl tho😄
#SaveSoil #ConsciousPlanet
@@savesoil3133 teenagers do. Like I had a friend who asked me to fake date him when we were 15 to make his ex jealous but after school graduation that he actually genuinely liked me but didn’t know how to start dating
One of my favorite tropes of fake dating is when the not-couple discuss PDA and romantic gestures. They practice privately before. It allows more vulnerability and openness between each other. Good communication works better with this trope. They fool everyone else, not each other. There can be way more consent than in usual situations. It doesn't "kill the mood" to discuss boundaries. It makes sense and is considered thoughtful.
Yessss
Chenford
PREACH
god i love it when the not-couple communicates. the combination of friends to lovers and fake dating is one of my absolute favourite tropes because of that reason.
like as friends, they’re more comfortable to discuss these things first, so it’s always nice to know that whatever they’re doing has received both their consent.
and i agree that it doesn’t kill the mood. if anything, them being friends adds way more romantic tension because both sides wanna keep their platonic friendship but also wanna take it further.
freaking chef’s kiss.
that sounds pretty amazing, but have you got any recs? haha
this video made me realize how often fake dating goes hand in hand with enemies to lovers and now I very desperately need a fake dating that is best friends to lovers. the secret yearning, the pining, the emotional conflict..... I need it. If anyone has recs please let me know I am STARVING
The Cheat Sheet, it was really good
@@samiyt8772 adding it to my goodreads as we speak
I think Hook, Link and Sinker by Tessa Bailey is also like that, but it has a love triangle! I have not read it myself but I will definitely
I lately found out that fake dating PLUS best friends to lovers is a common trope in fanfics and it’s one of my fav trope too
@@moonlightboyz I know right I see it in fanfics all the time and it's so good I need traditional publishing to get on it!!
"We don't wanna watch a fully functioning relationship" this is going to be the most valuable writing advice ever, Leonie
Consent not ruins the moment in the books/movies. The writers really need to see that. There is a musical part (green green dress) in the movie tick, tick...BOOM! The characters asks his girlfriends consent while singing and she says yes while building more tention. I was so happy to see that and it was so well done. I wish there are more examples like that
THIS and the “we have to get married for plot reasons” fantasy equivalent give me so much life. Call it stupid, call it unimaginative. it fuels my blood.
Guilty 😂😂😅
I'll be patiently waiting for an analysis of the enemies to lovers trope 👀
She already did one almost exactly a year ago: ruclips.net/video/TTR-l4moitk/видео.html
She already has one. Go check her channel
I just want to say ‘The duff’ was not a fake dating story, he was her popular neighbour AND childhood friend. And the deal was that he would help her become more social and be able to date her crush in return for her helping with his homework. It was more matchmaker than fake dating. They never fake dated.
I was just going to comment this! She is outright repulsed by the idea of people thinking their dating for a lot of the movie.
Came here for this! Haha. And the book was vastly better and not at all like the movie. They took an interesting enemies to lovers concept and watered it down to something unrecognizable from the source material.
The kiss quotient was steamy as hell but also had great consent (from what I remember) starting with a full contract listing all of the sexual acts they would explore in their “lessons” haha
As someone that got with their bf through fake dating (it was for a prank) I can tell you the vulnerability thing is spot on. Thinking about telling him I had a crush on him made me queasy, but by pretending to date it made expressing myself a lot easier, as I already knew he liked me enough to at least pretend to be with me.
it’s worth noting that the motive dani has to agreeing to the fake relationship is that she’s seeking a purely sexual relationship (with her own convoluted emotional issues underlying this decision) that zafir consents to! it isn’t entirely one-sided :)
i think the appeal lies in 4 things:
1. the pining - when we know they’re into each other but they don’t know yet it’s just so goood
2. the enemies to friends to lovers of it all - we get to see them really appreciate each other as people instead of just aesthetically
3. I agree with the ‘we get to see them do relationshippy stuff throughout instead of for a brief moment at the end’ that’s a big plus for me
4. The comedy - this usually balances out the light angst of the pining really well
I also would say the opposite thing with the consent issue - i love a good fake dating contract haha
Why is it that seeing this video just gave me inspiration and tools to write a whole fake dating novel?
you're not alone
lol
I haven't read a lot of romance books but the ones I have read were on Wattpad (yeah, so don't expect much from the story I'm gonna reference lmao). There was this one fake dating (or more fake wedding) story that i really liked at the time, but looking back now, it was so problematic.
Basically, there's this girl called Jenny. She's super tomboyish and independent and bold, all that jazz. She has a best friend who calls her one day, crying and saying that her dad is forcing her into a marriage. This best friend already has a lover but apparently the dad wants her to marry this super rich, cocky businessjerk. Jenny decides to go and talk to the guy (whose name is Jack) and convince him to turn down the offer. She goes to threaten Jack, who in turn falls in love with Jenny. But of course, he doesn't ask her out like a normal person. No, instead he says "okay, i won't marry your best friend, if you marry me instead".
Jenny is furious, but ultimately agrees so that she can help her bestie. But the problem here is that for ¾th parts of the book, the romance is entirely one-sided and thus problematic. Jack forces kisses on Jenny, and even touched her body without her consent (because she wasn't talking to him and he wanted to make her talk), all while Jenny is completely uncomfortable with it and extremely angry. There's no scene where Jenny returns his advances or blushes, or shows any signs of liking him back. Not to mention, this happened in private too, where they didn't need to pretend.
But of course, in the end, there's some drama and Jenny admits out of nowhere that she loves Jack and they start an actual married life together. Basically the definition of "sexually harrass your lover until they consent". It was horrible.
0_0
Yeah I hear about these types of stories all the time and I sit up because I think it must be written that way to confront that problem, but it ends up playing it straight more often than not. People go to some lengths to defend those ships too and rationalise them like "she actually secretly wanted him to flirt with her though" or "but they're happy and in love now" or "he got better". And you can like unhealthy fictional dynamics, but at least see and acknowledge them for what they are.
Tbh throughout that whole description I was like "okay, so forget the man, when are Jenny and the friend gonna fall in love then?" And honestly that would have made the better story, even if it's just as predictable (depending on how gay your expectations are I guess lol). The whole "we pretended to be a same-sex couple so people would leave us alone and not try and set us up with anyone" has problems of its own, especially as it's based on deception of identity and a lot of the time they're both straight (and it wouldn't even make them less harassed sadly). But it's more interesting and less insulting if one or both of them realise they are actually queer in the process. Then there's the discovery of themselves literally too (though it shouldn't be tied to their relationship).
It reminded me of 365 days (tbh I only watched analysis of the movies, never watched the movies or read the books)
@@tinyblueunicorn7807 yeah, if it was written as a tongue in cheek gag, it'd be obvious but it's clear that the author actually intended for it to be romantic.
and yes! though if I'm remembering correctly, the friend was also her cousin so sweet home alabama, if that's the situation lmao. but if they were just friends, i think they would have had more chemistry than they did with the male love interests. and i totally agree with your point. that specific trope could be written well if the author sticks to making it a queer romance and doesn't chicken out lol
My favorite version of the fake dating trope is when they are friends and they realize how good they are together. (Usually one or both has a crush on the other).
I think it'd be funny to see a story where two characters fake date but just become besties instead
That would be so cute!
i love how you didnt even need to explain why the love hypothesis got in the restraining order chart
i the first time i read the title " the spanish love deception" i thought it was saying that spanish people love the process of deception and was like "wooooowww."
LMAOOO
That actually sounds like a very interesting book. It would probably be literary fiction or something😂
The way you delivered the first restraining order was hilarious.
Seriously I had no ideia why this was so popular but what you explained at 21:56 - 23:07 is actually really interesting and makes a lot of sense ahah
This video is such a NEED. There are sooo many books that are getting popular (in TikTok mainly) and are soo triggering with all the situation revolving around no consent. What are this books teaching young teenagers (or mainly those who have never been in a relationship), that it is ok not to ask to your partner/love-interest when surpassing their personal boundaries??? Thanks for putting a light on this ♥, your video is excellent
If this was a series or podcast I’d totally devour this! The way you comment on things is just too hilarious 🤣
I think another good example of how to do forced romance is in To all the boys when they right out the contract about what they will and won't do
one thing I personally loved about fake dating trope when I was younger was specifically the opposite of the point about "no need to ask for consent". I don't remember much from "To all boys I loved before" but the scene that lives rent-free in my mind is Lara Jean and Peter writing a contract of what their fake dating entails. Especially at the time I didn't have many models of couples talking about boundaries and similar contracts in fake dating stories drew me to the trope, as it seemed like a way to prevent a romantic partner from doing something I was not comfortable with
It took way too long for me to realise you could discuss boundaries with an actual romantic partner, not just a fake one
🤡
I’m totally late to the party, but The Duff is my favorite movie (I really don’t know why) and I’m pretty sure Bianca and Wesley do not have a fake relationship, he is supposed to help her become more desirable so that she can get with Toby. If there was fake dating, the scene where he makes her flirt with random guys in the mall wouldn’t make any sense as it could potentially expose their whole “relationship”. At least that’s the way I interpret the plot 🥰
That's what I was thinking lol It wasn't that they were fake dating, it's that Wes' bitchy ex thought they were dating or that B was trying to get with Wes, regardless no fake dating shenanigans just questionable dating advice lol
“Admitting you have positive emotions for someone. . . Cringe!” Same. 😂😂 quote of the century! 20:56
i like tatbib bc they had a contract to define their boundaries. Yeah boundaries were pushed before the contract but they were like hey that was wrong, lets talk about what we’re comfortable doing instead
Tbh personally, All the boys I've loved before is THE book which PULLED me into this hole of the fake dating trope.
I used the contract in "all the boys I loved before" in an advanced contract law exam to explain various contractual terms. I passed the exam so thanks Jenny han
i think my favorite concept for fake dating is where a gay (or aroace) man and a lesbian (or aroace woman) fake date and have an amazing friendship. never seen a book about this but it would be nice.
Kiss Her Once for Me by Alison Cochrun might have what you're looking for.
@@Taraxacum_sp thank you
personally i find the fake dating trope better when they're already friends. i just think friends to lovers is always nice and makes the most sense to me - like they already know each other and are comfortable with each other; they're able to set boundaries and communicate. also it could be more believable to outsiders because it doesn't seem too sudden.
As a k-pop fan and a Thai BL drama fan, I sometimes think of fanservice between two idols/actors in a ship as a form of fake dating. They would be touching or sometimes even kissing each other (on the cheek), but it's basically for the show, to sell the idea of something romantic happening between them. (Of course, I know they are probably very comfortable and friendly with each other, but a lot of times it's really intentionally fanservice.)
Absolutely. The funny thing is that the vast majority of fans know that this type of fanservice exists, but may also ship the people involved at the same time and treat skinship as "proof". In general, it's honestly interesting how a lot of K-pop fans simultaneously understand the artificiality of idols and also engage with it as if it weren't artificial.
You randomly dropped that conversations with friends has a series and I didn't know??? Had to go watch the trailer immediately and now I'm exited but also back for the rest of your video.
EDIT: finished watching - great analysis, especially of the consent situation. Thank you!
"no ben, you just have no game" IM SCREAMING
I really like your usual, more earthy toned style BUT THAT DARK BLUE looks amaaaazing on you!
Y'know what I'd like? A book where the fake dating is part of a long con or undercover mission. That would be cool.
The love hypothesis is one of my favourite books, I'm highly offended by restraining order (but accurate)
Same ahaahah
Everything she says is 100% accurated but it still gave me butterfly ahahaha
I know I'm late to the party, but here's a fake dating romance premise I just made up: A guy is the only person in his friend group who is still single, and his friends are bugging him about it. Because of his autism, it's very difficult for him to read social cues and understand what people want without near- constant verbal communication, and this makes dating very awkward. So he just doesn't have a love life. He's perfectly happy being single, but his friends hit him with the "you won't know if you like it until you try it" argument. Later, he talks with his sister's best friend and they agree to "practice date" which removes the risk involved in an actual relationship. The best friend wants to practice date the MC because she is in the process of adopting a little autistic boy. She has done tons of research but still wants to understand more. At the start of their relationship, both characters are very polite to each other, but eventually, things become tense. He feels like a bug under glass and resents her for thinking that all autistic people are the same and will display autistic traits in the same way regardless of age or personality. She thinks he's a coward for not pursuing an actual loving relationship, and a hypocrite because he defends the individuality of autistic people but thinks that all women are the same. Eventually, they learn to value their differences and understand the others' point of view. And, of course, they fall in love.
Such an interesting video! Loved the breakdown of fake dating vs normal romance with all the graphs and charts, so helpful to illustrate what you were saying and made me think about the trope in a completely new way!
You said about consent and forcing the other person in public and it reminded me of something that people actually do: proposing others in public when this person's not okay with it and making them feel uncomfortable of saying no. If the couple is okay with it I see no problem at all, but there are people like that
would hate to be proposed in front of a lot of people.
while the proposal is ridiculously unrealistic it’s a classic and i love it
Meet Cute Diary was the first book I read this year, back in April and March. It has this trope, and I think it is done well. I recommend as a funny romance with great LGBTQ+ representation. I read slowly, and have recently gotten back into reading. I gave the book 4 stars.
Added to my tbr, thanks
For more fake dating check out the audiobook for boyfriend material by alexis hall (m/m, fake dating/proximity)
I really like these trope discussion videos! I find them so interesting.
You should see Kdramas.. they have tons of fake dating/marriage of convenience ... right now I'm hooked on this manhwa "a match made in heaven by chance" where the couple decided to do a marriage of convenience under the pressure of their parents, not a lot of pretending tho, just the two of them growing to like each other..I think its one of the best in this troop rn....and they have little miscommunication since they made it a condition in the marriage contract to always communicate...
I very much want more romcom novels where the 2 mains fake date and DONT fall in love with eachother by the end. Instead, the people they ACTUALLY have a crush on see them dating and get all mopey and sad about it but are supportive while dyinh inside. Like- there's this one TGCF fanfic that does this and it's *chefs kiss*
How are you so good at analyzing book tropes?! I just LOVE your discussion videos, please do more when you have the time, they make my day😊💕
Really loved this video concept!! Would love to see more long-form deep dives like this from you.
Watching this made me realize that all the fake dating things I've liked start with the characters establishing the "rules" of the relationship. Like, they draw up a list of things they're comfortable with and things they're not and clearly establish the rules for social media and family involvement. This clear establishment of boundaries makes it so much more comfortable and interesting to read to me because then it's like a fun little bit between them.
Someone HAS to talk about the Bridgerton fake dating trope between Daphné and Simon
great in-depth video on romance tropes, this makes me think of my comic, the focus is on having a crush on someone you don't want to like because you both have totally different perspectives on life, the person sees their crush, and feels weak and vulnerable soon they will have to confess their feelings.
the cut to you going "restraining order" for Love Hypothesis has me DEAD
always a good day when leonie pops up in the feed 💞
in the love hypothesis olive tells her friend she's going out on a date and just chills at the lab. but when her friend walks in, she THEN kisses the first man she can see. still stupid but a bit better
LITERALLY THE REFERENCE TO BROOKLYN 99 WAS SO GOOD >>>>
“No Ben, you just have no game” 😂 TELL HIM LEO!!! ✨
oh my god this was so genius?? the way u said they can do relationshippy stuff while the tension builds as well as the plot makes sooooo much sense SBIIEOEBHO
aaah i was missing these so much! your video essays are always so articulate. ✨
Hey, Leonie! I finished Crime and Punishment finally. Let me know when you do too--I have some feelings! :-)
i’m waiting for that too
@@azure113 yeah im also waiting for it lol
Same! I just finished it and it was intense :0
Wow, and I just started reading it.
@@timaxavier It took me months to finish this time and twice starting over like five years. It is not for the faint of heart! But power through--enjoy!
the way this thumbnail includes the top three worst books i've read all year
same 😭
I never got the fake dating trope. The best thing about any romance is the drama the highs and lows of what it takes two characters to be together. But with the fake dating the trope the drama isn't really there since everyone thinks the two should be a couple already.
Personally, I am not a huge fan of fake dating. Maybe it's because this trope wasn't done well in the book I have read. If anyone wants to recommend a book or two, feel free to do so. ☺️
The Wall of Winnipeg and Me (by Mariana Zapata), really slooww burn, but because of that it is a really well developed relashionship, u may like it!
I think Hani and Ishus guide to fake dating is cute :-) good motivation on both sides and a development between them that I liked
Never thought there was so much thought behind this trope, but you explained it really well! And I like your hair! :)
ive been binging your videos while drawing and honestly, you're one of my favourite new youtubers right now
this video was literally so interesting and fun to watch, i love it when you make these types of videos
I really enjoyed devouring your opinions by details on this trope. Please, if you can, make it a series on the channel. The series' main idea is to gain an insight into the book community tropes or similar book community topics (in addition to discussing tropes). I believe the series will be brand new content on the booktube.
It will be fantastic to host some of the other booktubers (again, if you are comfortable and able to do this) and like have a 35-45 mins discussion on the trends of the book community online once a month, as an example.
It'll be so remarkable and thrilling to see how people interpret or observe the same thing (topic) differently, which gives a space for a variety of opinions either in the videos or in the comments below.
Thank for you your content, Leonie. 💙
I am delighted every time I get a notification about a new upload.
Keep it up!
Good luck in getting your degree! YOU CAN GET IT!
I’m proud to say I’ve actually lived through this and have fake dated a guy to help him out and then we fell in love eTc etc then he left me and broke my heart 😻😻😻
Oh wow...
I've fake dated. I took my ex-partner to prom to keep a promise and my parents didn't know we were broken up because it was recent then and I thought it would be less complicated if we just played the part in front of my parents. It was mega awkward, since both of us had moved on and I was already dating another person who was the +1 of one of my mates at the same prom, the same mate who was supposed to take my ex but that fell through when my ex and I started dating the week after he offered to take them, but we didn't just switch dates like normal people because my then-current partner - i.e. my friend's +1 - and I weren't public and didn't want to make our dates feel like the third and fourth wheel. So we ended up sharing a table with a couple from a different school who had to watch in abject horror as my ex and then-current partner conspired to make out with each other and roast me all night, overseen one table over by the only person I'd actually asked to go to prom with who turned me down and was probably pretty glad to have dodged the bullet, only for another person who didn't even know I was dating at all to shoot their shot with me at prom in front of everyone, which made me feel like a prick because they were nice but I had no idea they were even interested in me and their come-on flew totally over my head until they didn't show up to school the next Monday and their friend said something about it. What an amazing experience, one I wish I didn't have to cringe re-live like once a month in my mind every month or so for the rest of my life.
Fake dating in real life is complicated, don't do it.
THE UNHONEYMOONERS BEING ON WOULD ACTUALLY CONSIDER YESS, i loved that book, the whole boat scene, they were hella cute 💫 from what i remember there was a part towards the end that pissed me off but still. also really love that you get to see them off the resort and not in the epilogue ✨
read Dear Fahrenheit!! it's a librarian writing love notes and break up letters to books (all different genres)
one of my favorite fake dating/marriage of convenience books is Electric Idol. the set-up is insane and but i love it and i think it does a great job of keeping conversations about consent within the story.
I literally love how you're just so funny in your videos
I appreciate your examples of how you can have clear consent with this trope!
I love your discussion videos ! I was rewatching your other videos while starting a new puzzle and i was thinking about how excited I was for another discussion video, so this is perfect timing !!
someone should write a fake dating book where they're dating a friend or someone they don't like but like make it suuuuuper slow burn by making them actually be into someone completely different
This makes me think of ‘If I never met you’ by Mhairi Mcfarlane
I loved "The Love Hypothesis", but you make a good point I didn't think of before with Olive's friend forcing them to do all this stuff instead of them doing stuff to keep up the allusion. I'm cloudy on the consent thing.
I really loved the fact that they met in the beginning, but she doesn't know because of her contacts, but he liked her when he first met her. I also liked that his harshness toward his peers was because he wanted good quality work to be out and not half-hearted stuff. He didn't know how else to say, "change it." Plus, the who thing with them being scientists were interesting, because I'm strictly a creative and not much of the other side. There are also the moment where she got burned by a co-worker who supported her work, that Adam idolized and appreciated and she decided to end it, because she couldn't stand the idea of Adam losing that and/or (don't quite remember) believe he won't believe her because of how high esteem he held for him. He dropped him when he heard the recording.
I haven't read much fake dating books, but all of these elements just was so much fun for me to read. I didn't see moments being uncomfortable or whatever, but you mentioning it made me realize that, lol. Can't say it negates my enjoyment of the book, though.
This video makes me want to write my own fake dating story XD Great video!
i am not kidding when i say that you are one of the funniest people I've seen no like you are genuinely funny.
Hey Leoni Interesting funny oh how much😂, motivating, articulate, insightful... I love this content videos. You're ways of discussing the topics are clear and deep in concepts💕💕
This was SO interesting to watch! Great analysis😄
This trope is so much. Can't Buy Me Love/Love Don't Cost a Thing, Bridgerton Season 1, Drive Me Crazy (movie), Mike and Dave Need Wedding Dates, How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days (humor me)... it really only rivals enemies-to-lovers for rom-com plots.
I loved this!! This could easily be me talking about books with myself
Second hand embarrassment kills me in these books, but I can’t stop reading them. 😂🤦🏾♀️🤷🏾♀️
This is by far the best tier list I've ever seen in my life hahaha
A movie which captures much of the joy of the fake dating trope without much of the baggage is While Your Were Sleeping. This 90's movie with Sandra Bullock and Bill Pullman is my favorite romantic comedy. Lucy has a crush on a man she sees on the train and ends up saving his life, then is refused from visiting him in the hospital because she's not family. A friendly nurse mishears Lucy talking to herself and brings her in into the hospital room, announcing her as his fiancee. He's in a coma and so can't correct the situation, and his family immediately loves her. This accidental-lie situation has Lucy fake dating an unconscious man, and so the mutual attraction between her and his brother (Bill Pullman) is taboo. Family events have them in lots of enforced proximity. The family dynamic of all the relatives and Lucy's loneliness are so wholesome-- it's simply the best romcom ever.
your hair is so cuteee
All the little graphs were absolutely hilarious and also perfect 😂 thank you for these videos Leonie they’re amazing ❤️
I really liked The Love Hypothesis (as a Phd student myself) and The Proposal 😂
Yay! Love these long analysis videos from you!
am I the only one who immediately thought of the Natasha/Yelena scene in Black Widow "it was real to me" when she mentioned how characters could deny stuff and then admit to it?
I was literally thinking of peeta and katniss in the hunger games when i saw 'fake dating' lol
“No Ben, you just have no game” took me out!!!
I really love your visual aid analysis materials. Saves authors many hours from trying to adopt or avoid tropes for stories in development. Are you still on the neuroscience track or did I get that wrong? It shows! Brilliant analysis of an area that is usually not examined like this. Keep up the great work.
I work at a bookstore. I'm not kidding, we have a section labeled 'Booktock: Spicy!' You guys are some horny crazies 😭😭😭
My first encounter with fake dating books etc is with anime and manga. I used to love that genre but realised how toxic it was
I NEED you to make a bookish podcast, PLEASE
Such a fun discussion video! Definitely would be interested in more in the future :)