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Daniel 9 Explained!
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2019
- Daniel 9 Explained!
What is the purpose of Daniel 9? Josh provides a brief explanation :)
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Music: Brak Bnei Original Composition
I felt like Gabriel prophesied it like this on purpose like: “yo Daniel this is really gonna make future Christians go crazy lol”
Still trying to understand what's going on
Is it irony or poetry that so many Christians then reinterpret the book of Daniel for exactly the same purposes. It's exactly the same theme - they reinterpret Daniel to say "the prophecies didn't fail but rather they contained hidden meaning and actually point to modern times (our times of course). Stay true to the faith because deliverance from the current struggle is soon coming".
Irony? It seems more like disgusting, totally false fanaticism, to me.
Dang it gets deep. That’s a whole rabbit hole right there.
They love revelation and Daniel. Learn it well and pass the basket. Be sure to baffle them with whatever bullshit current events you can work into it for extra cash.
Not all Christians do this. Post Millenniallists believe the events happened in the first century and have considerable evidence to back up this claim.
@@aaronlucier9666 Dan. 9:27 spans 1983 years and still running till the consummation aka 70th week. People fail to realize for the 70th to have had to be fulfilled "Thy People" need to fulfill the list in 9:24. Obviously "Thy People" are still being poured into the "Holy City".
This was great. Awesome job.
Please increase the volume on your recordings for those of us with difficulty hearing. Thanks
Wow...this channel is becoming my favourite more and more.
How long till SJ misrepresentes another scholar saying she is correct about this?
Who is SJ?
@@jamiee7367 SJ Thompson
Please help me understand this timeline. If Daniel 9 represents the time of Darius, then it had be 539 BC. 490 years from 539 BC takes us to 40 BC, which is about 72 years prior to the crucifixion of Jesus. Where am I going wrong?
490 years for the transgression for Israel to be completed. 483 went by and on Palm Sunday, the Messiah was "cut off" stopping God's timeline. There is 1 week (7 years) left to be accomplished for the balance of the 490 years. The Tribulation is for the salvation of the Jewish Nation. 7 year tribulation coming, then Jesus returns after Israel is finished with the 490 year transgression.
Hi, the verse 25 says that the time between the rebuilt of jerusalem (which was around 445 BC by Nehemiah) and the king Christ is 69 sevens=69×7 = 483 Hebrew years = 476 years
An interesting analysis. Thank you.
@digitalhamurabi How do we know that the 70 years of Jeremiah start in 586 BC? Weren't there earlier deportations of smaller groups?
true, there was several deportation to babylon as you can read in different places in bible. I guess the issue with 70 years is aso solved by roger Liebi, need to check also that
It is always reckoned from the completion of the exiled.
Because they were held in captivity for 70 years in Babylon. Those 70 years do not count towards the 490 years of the prophecy.
Dr. Bowen, I wish you'd do a short video like this explaining the issues with the 490 years thing. So many people suggest that from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem (Nehemiah) to the death of Jesus was exactly, to the day, 490 years. I've heard there are problems with this assessment, since the years don't perfectly line up. An apologist could just say "well, we don't know EXACTLY when Nehemiah rebuild Jerusalem. Perhaps it was a few years earlier/later than we think" or "we don't know EXACTLY what year Jesus died, so there's wiggle room on either side".
What event is the start of the 490 years and what year would be the end? Is it really as close as apologists say? Like, within a couple years of historical "wiggle room"? Or do we have concrete dates for Nehemiah's restoration and Jesus death?
There's problems upon problems with interpretations etc. For one...anyone calculating the years should be using the Jewish Calendar....not Gregorian or any other. If you Calculate the years according to the Jewish Calendar...the "Seventy Weeks" end in 3830, the year the Second temple was destroyed....verse 26 explicitly states this. The "Sanctuary" here is the Temple in Jerusalem. "and the people of the coming monarch will destroy the city and the Sanctuary," in other words the coming Monarch is Rome. Even if it was written during the Maccabean revolt...they couldn't of known this. Whoever said that the Jewish exile did not last 70 years in Babylon is also incorrect. Jeremiah 25:12 is explicitly about BABYLON not the Jewish people and their exile. Daniel thought that 25:12 and 29:10 happened simultaneously. The counting of the 70 years for Babylon began not at the destruction of the Temple. It began at the subjugation of the Jewish people 19 years prior by the Babylonians. Daniel is writing this...which the text says....in the 1st year of Darius the Mede. In other words Babylon is gone! Why then are we still here? That's the real focus of this chapter.
Yeah, sure 🙄
@@rc7625 😂😂☝🏾 That's it?? Oh man...
Great factual information thanks for sharing
@@alvinvaughn6531 Thank you if you are referring to my original comment. People should not play around with stuff and unfortunately most people actually do and do not realize the earth shattering consequences of believing bad information.
So the Jewish year being shorter than our year makes the problem worse. However, that is not the full problem and this gets corrected for in their calendar by an extra month every now and then so that the Passover is celebrated in the spring every year as per the Torah Deuteronomy 16:1 (Ha_Abib meaning literally the Spring or when the fresh heads of grain start to form and we also know that Abib is always started with the arrival of the spring Equinox). If we don't do this eventually you will be celebrating passover in Winter, and then fall, and then summer, etc... This is why we have the Jewish Leap year to provide the extra month this takes out over time. So in reality we can count it as our years as they in essence must equal out to passover being celebrated in the spring of every year and since we are actually concerned with the year then it makes no actual difference as our years will always be within + or - one month. After all if you think about it eventually the celebrations would change season if we only do 355 to 353 days a year. But for the sake of argument I will use your shortened version of a Jewish year alone and not include the extra month every few years. This way I can attempt to be as gracious as I can to your position. I would agree there is a problem here, Daniel (according to the character in the text) is trying to figure out between Jeremiah chapter 25:12 and 29:10. So he is counting this from the first of the 3 exiles to Babylon over the 18 year period rather than the last exile as we would see in the Jeremiah 29 reference. So he see's Babylon destroyed as is predicted in Jeremiah 25 but he has a problem now as Israel has not yet returned. So he is going to the Torah as his prayer suggests. He is likely going to Leviticus 26:18 because it speaks of what is to occur when the Jews are not obedient to the covenant and tells them God will turn them over to their enemies as has happened here in the Exile. So verse 28 tells them that if for all this punishment they still do not listen to God that he will punish them 7 times more, hence he is here thinking the 70 years will now become 70x7 years. So we know the last of the exiles occurred in 587 BC. So the "prophecy of Jeremiah would have to have occurred prior to 587 BC correct? Or else it isn't a prophecy but a recording of events after the fact. We know that in Daniel 9 the Mashiach will come after 7 weeks. So 49 years. This fits so far, we have Cyrus coming in 539BC, if we do the 49 years that puts the prophecy starting at 588BC or as early as 587 BC if using the Jewish Calendar (trying to be as fair as possible and assume the date lines up perfectly for the sake of argument and giving every concession I can) So according to Daniel 9:25 tells us that until the coming of Mashiach will be 7 weeks, So what happened during at the end of 7 weeks? Cyrus king of Persia began his rule as King (mashiach). This doesn't necessarily mean the Mashiach promised from King David. We see Cyrus in the next chapter of Daniel but it doesn't really tell us anything about his status as Mashiach although the time frame fits. Isaiah 44:28-45:2 does though. It calls Cyrus Gods Shepard and that he performs all his pleasure, and that he will rebuild Jerusalem and the Temple as is prophesied of by Daniel during the 62 weeks after Mashiach comes. What is more is that Isaiah blatantly calls him here Mashiach. So we have one more major problem to understand, When are we supposed to start counting from? From the going forth of the Word to restore and rebuild Jerusalem. We know that Cyrus gives the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem according to Isaiah 44:28 but even if we assume this later time period it still doesn't get us anywhere near year 0 or after such as 70CE. But I do not think that is what is going on here. The word is Devar or Devari in the Hebrew. This means the word of prophecy. That was not given by Cyrus but Daniel tells us who gave the Devar in verse 2 and that person is Jeremiah who tells us in Jeremiah 29:10 that 70 years are determined but that God will fulfill his Devar (his word) to return them to their Land and if we continue to read in Jeremiah we get at 30:18 the prophecy is made that Jerusalem will be built again. So we have here a Devar of the building of the City made by Jeremiah just as Daniel said. But if we look at Ezra chapter 1:1 we see again that the Devar of the Lord spoken of by the mouth of Jeremiah would be fulfilled by Cyrus king of Persia. So the Mashiach who is to fulfill the Word of Jeremiah is Cyrus not Jesus. This occurred shortly after Daniel 9 would have supposedly been written. 49 years or 7 weeks after the Devar (word of Prophecy) by the mouth of Jeremiah. So if we count from the Devar as we are told to do then in our years the max of 70 years X7 (490 years) would have been finished about 100 years before Jesus would have been born. So we know the Devar would have been at 587 or before, I will be as gracious as I can and use our current years because it is longer than the Jewish year. Plus it makes the math easier to do. So 587 (the last of the carrying away to Babylon and hence Jeremiah would have to have prophesied at or before this point) minus the 490 years (the total 70 weeks) equals (& AD as being the Latest possible time for this prophecy to be finished by. Notice this is about 100 years before Jesus would have even been born and we need an extra 70 years after that to get to the destruction of the second temple. So giving every possible concession I can make I still am not in the ball park for the time you say this was fulfilled in. Either way, if we start the time from the Devar of Jeremiah then and only then do we see the fulfillment of the 70 years and so this must be the time we start counting from as Daniel plainly tells us.
Of course in the Christian interpretation they find some event that doesn't seem to me to fit the prophecy as a time to start counting from but let us look at it. Artaxerxes in Nehemiah 2:5 is said to here give a command to restore Jerusalem. If you read the text he does no such thing. Nehemiah is distraught, the king asks him why, he panders to him and eventually says his home is still in ruins (which I find odd as Isaiah 44:28 tells us that Cyrus will help to rebuild the city and the temple and he dies well before this time period). So the king here only gives Permission to Nehemiah to leave for a time, and the closest you get to a command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem (as is the prophecy) is when Nehemiah asks him for a letter to Asaph for asking for wood to use to rebuild the temple and walls. But if we use this we do get a lot closer to the 70AD time frame. So we know this is occurring in his 20th year of his reign according to Nehemiah 2:1 so his reign started in 465 CE so this would be roughly 445 BCE or prior if we use the Jewish Calendar (since it is shorter than ours). So let us take the Latest possible time 445 BCE and minus the 490 years, this puts us at roughly 45 BCE so definitely not when the temple gets destroyed. We still need more years, so using the Jewish calendar is not going to fix that as it is LESS. However, we have another problem at play here. The Text of Daniel tells us that till the coming of Mashiach will be 7 years and for the rebuilding it will be 62 years. Christians lump this together and say Messiah will come at 62+7 weeks, so the 69th week. If the 70th week is at the destruction of the temple as you claim then the Messiah would have to be killed within 7 years (1 week) of the destruction of the temple. Hence 69 weeks to 70 weeks. so that would put the death of Jesus at the early 60's CE not at the Early 30's as is our customary belief that he died at 33 years old and was born around the turn of the Common Era or you may prefer it to be called 0 AD. So no matter which way we slice this prophecy we run into massive problems with your interpretation of this. But if we take the time period of 445 BCE (again giving every possible concession I can) and we minus 69 weeks from it so 483 years we end up with it being the year 38AD. But let us assume we are using the Jewish calendar and since it is short by 10 to 12 days per year we end up with 13.2 years we can remove off this number up to 15.8 years less, so if we take the number closest to the time frame you want to get to (Jesus death) we get to 25 AD you are still off on your time frame by several years but we again have another problem, This puts the prophecy for the destruction of the temple according to you at 32CE which we know is not the case. No matter which way we slice this problem it does not work. Not to mention the fact that isn't at all what is prophesied of in Daniel. He is not saying till the coming of Mashiach will be 7 weeks plus 62 weeks. Rather he is saying till the coming of Mashaich will be 7 weeks, and the rebuilding will be 62 weeks. Of course we have another weird prophecy here that Mashiach will be cut off at the end of 62 weeks, this means that said Mashiach will have to live for 100's of years. Either that or it means that the Jewish concept of Mashiach is at play here and anyone who is anointed is Mashiach in fact nearly every use of this word in Tanakh is found in Leviticus about the priests. So the person it is talking about is simply anyone who is anointed and hence likely a Kohen (priest) or a Melech (King). This removes the mystery of the verse though and leaves it without an appeal to Jesus as he was neither an anointed King or Priest. So the interpretation in this video about it likely referring to Onias the 3rd has far more explanatory power than referring to Jesus.
BC copies of Daniel have been found - why should we assume Daniel 9 is AD?
I love getting a new video from DH on Friday. 😃
Sounds like what happened was this author attempted to create a sense of meaning for those who came after the event, rather than those who lived during it. I'm starting to thing that writing "prophesy" is more about trying to extract actionable patterns out of events.
Sometimes you get these moments where a handful of people are convinced that some prophesy is about current events. In a way, they are, but not for the superstitious reasons they're expecting. It's real for the same reason that an old pantheon god represents a personality archetype, rather than an actual being.
Behind EVERY human is a spirit. It is Gid or strange gods..it can not be both nor neither. Choose or it is chosen for you. I pray it is God, the Father of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Through His son, Jesus
It all boils down to the view you have on God and Bible. You believe in God and that Bible is true, you have no real reason to suspect the prophesies. On the contrary this one seems to quite accurately describe the coming and purpose of the Messiah. If you believe in naturalism, you have to come up with these kind of assumptions of utter deceitfulness and falsehood of the people who wrote those in order to void these prophecies.
Does the historical-critical method, also known as higher criticism involve certain presuppositions that exclude certain Biblical assertions?
Shalom/Peace
Hi what do you think about that there's no response from "what do u meme" on the subject of slavery. Is it possible that he has not seen it? I am referring to your response to his response
He knows it exists, but he stated on Twitter that he’s not watched them as they are too boring.
My uneducated opinion is that our channel is too small for him to be bothered with.
@@DigitalHammurabi Well for the last 2 months it tried to get an answer from him about a claim that he said in his video, no luck. After a month I try to keep a track when he uploads a video and be the first comment but in this way, I couldn't get an answer to. I think it's impossible that he wouldn't saw this. and it was a normal comment I even from the start pretend that I am his fan to get an answer. Now I think it's a time to give up, plus in last 2 months I learned that he is not interested in conversation, and I have reasons to believe that he is dishonest too, I guess he could do it all for money and didn't believe a thing he says that would be why he doesn't answer and won't respond to you but goes after CosmicSkeptic who has more subs, if he would stand as a Christian I know he wouldn't act like that he would take you on to defend his faith and he wouldn't care about if it's boring or not
I just check my history to see when I started trying to get a response its rly 2 months it feels like forever
Sorry for my English it's not my first language, Love your stuff and thank for an answer
The 4th beast isn't Greek(not here,in Daniel 7).....but Rome,you can't realating enything from
the 4th beast to the Seleucid Kingdom.
What are the 10 horns for example?
Why do I say this? In response to the claim that Daniel was written in the second or third century BCE, in this period Rome still did not have a strong empire like the one that ruled until the fifth century CE, Rome did not rule Palestine / Judea at all then!
I appreciate your comment, but we deal with this issue specifically in the other Daniel videos and in our new book: www.amazon.com/Atheist-Handbook-Old-Testament-ebook/dp/B094RF3CF3/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=joshua+bowen&qid=1624356968&sprefix=joshua+b&sr=8-3
Digital Hammurabi what do you think of the coincidence with Jesus death?
The problem is daniel died 400 years before the destruction of the temple if he wrote it after the fact way thats amazing. That the problem with Prophecy it’s so accurate that most people can’t believe that it was written before it happened
Utter horseshit. But you do you, boo.
@@rc7625 what's wrong with this manner
He is very politely saying that Daniel is a scam.
@Amy Bradley Daniel is a hoax written during the Maccabean revolt 200 years after the events it claims to portray.
@@rayhill5767 Please present evidence for your claim that Daniel is a hoax and cite reliable, verifiable sources. Thank you.
@Amy Bradley what does believing in god have to do with a piece of Iron Age goat herder literature? Also why is your belief in god dependent on a single chapter of this book?
Why does the slightest bit of challenge to an Iron Age book cause your entire belief system to crumble?
@@raymondjelich185 Yale Bible literature courses are freely available on RUclips. Also I’m pretty sure you’re familiar with this thing called the internet and the grey meat in your skull called a brain. Why don’t you use it.
Peter never met Jesus but wrote 1/2 of the New Testament
Mathew Mark Luke and John never identify themselves in the chapters written
John was written in 100 and is the chapter full of direct Jesus quotes
No historical evidence for:
Exodus
King David
City of David
Solomon
First temple
Or Jesus
@@rayhill5767 Re: "Also I’m pretty sure you’re familiar with this thing called the internet and the grey meat in your skull called a brain. Why don’t you use it." When people resort to personal insults it demonstrates that they either:
a. refuse to engage in intellectual debate or
b. are not capable of doing so.
Daniel was not written in the 2nd century BC. The only way that the author of the text could have known as much as he did about the court and the interworkings of Babylon is if he was an eyewitness to the events, and that has never been discounted or discredited.
That’s prophecy for you. You ready to believe in Yahweh?
I agree with everything here, but I don't see that Gabriel is CLEARLY claiming that the 70 years should be reinterpreted as 70 Sevens. I think this is very likely what's going on, but I don't think it's accurate to just say 'Gabriel tells Daniel that the 70 years are really 490 years.' When I first heard this taught, I was told that Daniel is praying concerning the soon-to-be-ending exile. (Praying supposedly in 539 BC, almost 70 years after 605 BC, which many Christians claim is the starting point of Jeremiah's 70 years.) Since the 70 year exile is almost over, he prays that God will fulfill his promise to return the Jews (I'm not sure why he would be praying for this, if God always fulfills his promises.) And then Gabriel gives Daniel the 70 Sevens prophecy. It's just coincidence that both prophecies use '70.'
One problem I see with this understanding is that it would seem to bring up the question I mentioned earlier, about why Daniel is praying in the first place. I think the idea that Gabriel is reinterpreting Jeremiah IS correct however, even if it's not 100% clear--because the idea that the Messiah is being predicted to show up 500 years later would have no relevance at all to (the supposed Daniel's) situation, or to the situation of a supposed 6th century audience.
It would however make sense if a 165 BC 'Daniel' was trying to make sense of why the idealistic picture that Jeremiah paints, which was supposed to occur after the return from exile in 538 BC (and would last forever) didn't really come to fruition...especially in light of the intense persecution under the Seleucids in the 160s BC. (Agreeing with what is said in this video.) A 165 BC 'Daniel' would therefore be essentially writing mostly history, but actually predicting the end of the 70th week in 164 BC, 1-2 years in his future. (The beginning of the 70th week would have started in 171 with the death of Onias III, a 'mashiach' or high priest.) As Carrier points out ('Rapture Day' video) this prophecy is no different than modern day prophecies claiming that the end is just around the corner.
Equally false and dishonest, then.
@@Querent2000 , but why is it "dishonest"? Daniel chapter 9 does not claim to be written at any time. it was written to inspire the Jews to hold out against the Greek invaders under the Greek king Antiochus 4th in about 170 BC. It was conceived to create Jewish martyrs.
@@petermcdermot1081 Because for decades Daniel has been cited as prophecy, and even FULFILLED prophecy, which was a dishonest and false claim.
Jeremiah had prophesied about the 70 years of the Jews being in Babylonian captivity, and Daniel had been studying Jeremiah's words. Daniel was praying (in early portion of Ch. 9) BECAUSE he knew the 70 years of exile were ending soon. The 70 years that Jeremiah spoke of were entirely different than the 70 weeks (weeks of years, meaning 490 years) that Gabriel spoke of as an answer to Daniel's prayer. Daniel was given an entirely different prophecy than that which was given to Jeremiah, and he was given that prophecy in the 6th century B.C., not in 2nd century A.D. The 70th week is yet to be realized, but begins after the Church is removed (raptured) from the world. The list given in verse 24 of Ch. 9 are things that have not been fulfilled yet by Israel; Israel is the subject of the 70 weeks.
To say this "Historically, this prophecy was not accurate ... " (3:53mins) is a problem. This may signify that the fulfillment of this prophecy has yet to occur.
This may also signal that prophecies are bullshit
That opening intro is a bop
Both John Collins and Carol Newsome are reading into the text what is not found in it. The 70 years of Jeremiah terminate with the judgement on Babylon. Jeremiah 25 :12 _"Then after seventy years are completed, I will punish the king of Babylon and that nation, the land of the Chaldeans, for their iniquity, declares the LORD, making the land an everlasting waste."_
What is also ignored are the statements about making atonement for iniquity and bringing in everlasting righteousness. Antiochus did not destroy the Temple but Titus did in A.D. 70. He defiled it and is a type of future desolators such as Titus and AntiChrist.
I presented many arguments previously for an early date for Daniel and Collins is glaringly wrong in his misidentification of the four kingdoms. It's extreme hubris for self styled "Christian scholars" to make Christ out to be a liar since he plainly makes it's fulfiment to be that by Titus and the Romans. So there is typology and Antiochus is a type but this prophecy fits very well with Daniel in Babylon and the angel informing of what would befall Israel, Jerusalem and the Temple over an extended future time.
Ken Mc Cracken please send me your presentation; I would love to see it.
@@DigitalHammurabi I provided links to articles in relation to the dating of Daniel and interpretation in the comments section on one of your previous videos on Daniel.
Let's just take one point I'm making here. Daniel is reading Jeremiah so he obviously knows what Jeremiah says about the 70 years terminating with the judgement on Babylon. Now Collins and Newsome put on their Maccabean date goggles and read into the text what is simply not found in it.
Nowhere does the angel say he's giving him the "hidden meaning" of Jeremiah's 70 years. On the contrary he gives him assurance of return of exiles to Israel, reconstruction of the Temple and Jerusalem but ultimate destruction and desolation of Jerusalem and the Temple in conjunction with an anointed one being cut off, atonement etc. So this is what follows Jeremiah's 70 years not some supposed hidden meaning of Jeremiah.
Critical scholars often have their presuppostions which are naturalistic and this has a major effect both on their dating books and interpretation of these books.
Ken Mc Cracken If you could provide the links to your article here, that would be very helpful. Thanks.
@@DigitalHammurabi O.k. I'll repost the entire post with the links here. "I think Dr Bowen would agree that in interpreting texts it's important to understand what the author's intent is. He pointed out that in chapter 8 the ram is Medo-Persia. One ram with two horns and this is precisely the interpretation given to Daniel that it is combined Medo-Persia followed by Greece. Thus the four kingdoms in chapter 7 are Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome.Obviously the concern is with these kingdoms in relation to Israel and the kingdom of God.
Furthermore Nebuchadnezzar's vision has the kingdom of God set up in the time of the kings of the fourth kingdom. On top of this in chapter 9 an anointed one is cut off and this is expressly related to Jerusalem, and "to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness,.." This is followed by the destruction of the city Jerusalem, and it's temple which Antiochus did not do, but the Roman Titus did in A.D. 70. Josephus explicitly cited Daniel when this occurred, and Jesus also referred to this in relation to Daniel as being imminent, though of course the liberals postdate this also! Why?
Liberal scholars are hoisted by their own petard with the reference to Daniel in Ezekiel which they gladly date as Ezekiel himself does, since they are sure he has a failed prophecy in there. So thoughtful of them! But this is a strong additional piece of evidence for the early date of Daniel. bible.org/article/who-ezekiels-daniel
Whether chapter 11 ends with Greece is a matter of interpretation. Much of it seems to concern Alexander's kingdom and what arises out of that down to Antiochus. But from verse 36 on it doesn't fit Antiochus. Some Christian interpreters think it moves to the anti-Christ here of whom Antiochus is a type, and Nebuchadnezzar is also earlier on with his image to be worshipped.
Prof E.J. Young in his commentary points out that by the time of Antiochus, Moab had ceased to exist as a nation. Why would this part be expected to be taken historically then in the time of Antiochus? Young rightly I think, takes Moab, Ammon and Edom here as simply symbolical as the traditional enemies of Israel. Here again Christians view the Bible as a revelation of God with united threads in these many books,so the Prophet's are fulfilled in Christ for example.Thus there are types and antitypes.
Xenophon agrees with Daniel that Belshazzar was executed the same night Babylon fell. He also is more accurate than Herodotus on key points. truthonlybible.com/2016/01/08/darius-the-mede-a-solution-to-his-identity/
I'm not an expert on these histories or linguistics but I still see Daniel as having remarkable fulfilled prophecies, most notably in Jesus death, the destruction of Jerusalem, it's temple and the establishing of the kingdom of God in the time of the Roman kings.
" P.s. I accidentally edited out this link when copying my post here. markhaughwout.com/Bible/Dating_Daniel.html
Ken Mc Cracken Thank you. What would you like me to respond to? I think reviewing your last link might be the most beneficial thing?
You post a video on Daniel 9 an hour and a half after Veritasium posts a video on Planet 9? Coincidence? I think not. (If only today were the 9th. And if your video had been a minute longer, there would have been a 9 minute difference in the video lengths. I guess this being the 9th month is sufficient.)
It's not too late (it never is) to add some additional "revelation" to the narrative. The video "was" originally a minute longer and it "was" recorded on the 9th. Unfortunately, it got "corrupted" by edits and the wickedness of RUclips latency.
Hidden forces working to erase those "coincidences" are proof those seemingly unrelated events are not merely coincidences but signs of an evil conspiracy, worst than weak people can even conceive. But, you are not weak, Michael. Deep down, you know better than to get so easily fooled. Everything is one. One is everything. And nine it is.
😊
@@thorhilda The conspiracy runs even deeper than I suspected. We're doomed!
@@michaelsommers2356 Shhh... don't tell anyone. You are part of the chosen few.
.
.
ruclips.net/video/HWmvbxGpra4/видео.html
Wouldnt daniels math be wrong by 100+ years if this was about antiochus
Interesting a great refutation of a Bible literalist but not someone who would be ok with a prophecy to be less than perfect. Pretty amazing in my book still that Daniel gets the timing more or less right with the rebuilding of the temple, Jesus’s death, and then the destruction of the temple. Makes you wonder! 🤔
amen. I spent the last 9 years in Daniel and still finding treasures.
4:39 You're referencing apocryphal works. I'm out.
yeah, this is wack.
Minions are everywhere, aren't they?
nope.
I had hoped for more. The more I look at it Daniel 9 stands out from its surroundings like Genesis 14 and Joshua 10 do. they are late add ons from a completely different author. For example, what about the use of the term "Yahweh" found exclusively in chapter 9? The word for "prophet" is also only found in chapter 9. As well the word Jerusalem is not found in chapters 8-12 except in chapter 9. Note also that these three words are significant in meaning and are not only by chance in chapter 9! Yahweh is used 8 times, Jerusalem is said 7 times and prophet 3 times in this one small chapter.
Chapter 9 skews the entirety of 8-12 with its heavy emphasis on Yahweh and Jerusalem. While chapter 8 LOCATES DANIEL IN SUSA, ELAM, chapter 10 LOCATES DANIEL AT THE TIGRIS and chapter 11 identifies the angel as being with Darius who built a capital in SUSA, ELAM - chapter 9 confuses the reader into thinking the other chapters are about Yahweh and Jerusalem. These chapters are instead about the end of an age, about the heavenly Elah (Elohim), and the temple attacked by Antiochus in Elam! Greco-Roman historians have Antiochus attacking the temple in Elam, being defeated, then dying in retreat. This is very similar to what Daniel 11 if you simply rearrange it. The fact that it was rearranged probably means it was 1) by mistake (otherwise simply write your own story rather than rearrange it), and 2) influenced by the historiography of the Maccabean regime who probably placed all the blame for the brutality of their early years on Antiochus iv. That it would be a mistake made by following the Maccabean regime's historiography would mean it probably written a bit later than 164 BCE.
It may also be important that Elam gained its independence from the Seleucids in 147 BCE for a short while before being taken over by the Parthians. The idea being that this could have been entirely from an Elamite perspective, including the 4 kingdoms, as Assyria long ago had leveled Elam at one point. Only after a Judean scribe picked it up and thought it applied to Jerusalem would he have rearranged it, accidently or purposefully.
@Lucas Hunt it's not uncommon for the order to jump chapters in the Tanakh. Antiochus is the same in Dan. 8:10:14 as Dan. 11:30 and Romes line in the sand.
Tut tut people, this is Dr Joshua Bowen on Digital Hammurabi, not thst Dr Josh bloke on the heretic Skylar Fictions channnel.........
Step back about 50 feet and look at book as a whole not as one particular chapter. Harmonization through out the Bible is amazing, if you open your eyes and ears and let the Holy Spirit in.
Oh boy. Yeah, I was an evangelical fundamentalist Christian for 26 years.
We're they Sexagesimal , that would count. Somehow.
Learned a new word, Thank you
🙏
I hear you but very faulty understanding. Bear in mind that many prophecies carries a double fulfillment this is one of them. There was a literal 70 year captivity and there's s 70 weeks of years of which 69 is almost fulfilled. We are still in the 69th week. Th 70th will be the "Time of Jacob's (Israel) trouble" aka the "Great Tribulation".
So,
You’re saying that Daniel being written in the 2nd century BC rather than 6th century BC is undeniable?
That means, instead of Daniel being prophetic, it’s simply recording history. “Nothing to see here! Just move along..”. That implies that Jesus didn’t know, or didn’t care that he was quoting from someone lying about who they were professing to be. That would mean Jesus would be misled or ignorant, which means Jesus couldn’t be Devine or infallible.
Is that what we’re to take from this?
I’m not a scholar by the way, just a dumb guy asking a dumb question..
The theological implications for Christianity are not really a concern for us, unfortunately.
Chase Parish, do you think that Jesus is divine or infallible?
@@exmormonroverpaula2319 No.
@@DigitalHammurabi It should matter to you since it concerns "thy people" and "thy Holy City". Tossing the book of Daniel under the bus is you saying the rest of Tanakh is not inspired and can't be trusted. I have more respect for it's inerrancy in the WORD of YHWH than you obviously.
@@rickhuntling7338 hi, can you help me understand what's going on in daniel 9 please
This does not make much sense. In my view you can't just make up new intentions and meanings out of your head for an existing text. For example nowhere does anyone suggest that the gentile occupation is in question here in verse 27. That would be very very strange way of describing end of gentile occupation.
Also the whole starting point of this video is false - the angel is not correcting Daniel in any way. The number 70 is the only combining trait here. The 70 years in Babylon is different thing than the time period the angel is referring to.
It would be interesting to hear your explanation on how you can make the numbers match the Maccabean revolt 😂
@@hermannimulperi1842 We will be sure to let the whole of Danielic scholarship know of your insightful corrections to their conclusions.
In my opinion, a "prophecy" written after the fact, which is what the entire Bible is, is some of the most vicious and contemptible deception possible for human beings to commit. It makes the entire enterprise of proving the divinity and existence of YHWH equally contemptible. The whole concept is revealed to be utter garbage.
I'm not sure by what basis you hold it contemptible if contempt of immorality is based in belief in a Christian value system.
The problem with this is the people would have known it was after the fact.
I just watched a weird video session about substances in the Bible and ancient records. That had, near the start, a reference to Greek, Hebrew and a cuneiform text about mushrooms [later pics of medieval religious pictures with mushrooms]. That might explain the Gospel of John, but I have only ever heard of wine with weed or opium. Apropos the current topic and others, would substance use explain some notable problems? It might just be Sitchenesque bunkum, though. If you are interested here is the info:
Psychedelics in Christianity | The Early Church
ruclips.net/video/SwhR4YlACyA/видео.html
Could instead be that Jesus rose from the dead
Huh, Where’s Jebus? 👀
It is 70 sabbatical years that the Jewish people owed God for NEVER observing the one year rest of the land in the levitical law. They NEVER observed it, so owed it to Yahweh( God Almighty) so he took them into exile in Babylon until they had paid the first 70 of their 490 years they owed. It’s all perfect prophecy and to the very day that Jesus, The Messiah King rode into Jerusalem on a donkey. To the very day!!! For told 475 years beforehand by the prophet Daniel.
@Earl Reel
Better said, is Isreal owed 70 years from the last 70 sabbatical weeks.
Daniel received the the prophecy in 536 BC 70 years from himself being took captive in 596 BC.
Nehemiah received "devar" in 454 BC, Nisan 14th at the 9th hour to repair the streets, and walls.
Dan. 9:26 is to Messiah cutoff from the land of the living Nisan 14th at the 9th hour 31 AD in the midst of Passion week a Wed.\Thur. Passover that year.
The triumphant entry filfilled Dan. 9:25, Zech. 9:6 "Messiah the Prince" intering on the back of an ass Nisan 10th.
Dan. 9:27 "And HE (Messiah) shall confirm the covenant (Isa. 55:1-7) with the many (people, tongues, nations and kings) for one week (Passion week) and and in the midst of the week (Wed.\Thur. Passover) HE (Messiah) shall cause the sacrifice and obligation to cease (it is finished) and for overspreading of abominations (40 years of continued unacceptable animals sacrifices) HE shall make it (Holy City) desolate (void of "thy people") even until the consumation (70th week) and that determined (gap of time) shall be poured upon the desolate (thy people pour back into thy Holy City began 1967 till ongoing).
Isa. 55:3 the sure mercies of David confirmed the Gospel Resurrection Sunday the end of the week. Ps. 16:10, Acts 13:34.
Thursday ✝️fulfills the only sign for the Jews 3 days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Isa. 55:5 says the everlasting covenant goes to the Gentiles a nation Israel knows not.
Ezek 4:1-5 began the day Nehemiah received the "devar" in 454 BC ending in Pompey's siege in 63 bc. Iron pan symbolic for Rome.
Ezek. 4:6,7 began at the ✝️31 AD inding 40 years later in a Titus "a prince" iron pan siege 70 ad.
DanleiVargas 9
PART 2 of 2
.............."THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION." PART 2 OF 2............
.... THESE SCRIPTURES COMING FROM A 208-YEAR-OLD HOLY BIBLE, WORD FOR WORD....
The Book a.k.a Scroll of Seven Seals is the Title Dead to The World that will be given only too Jesus Christ by The Right Hand of God Himself. Each Seal reveals a Condition to this Contract that must take place before Ownership is Completed. Those Conditions are a (PRELUDE) to The Trumpets and Bowls that will not start until The Midst of The Week with THE FIRST WOE, (Fifth Trumpet.)
That Fifth Trumpet will be the Revealing of The Lawless One (The Mahdi,) His Claim to The Ark of The Covenant, most likely with using Lying Scriptures said pulled from it, The Removal of The BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST, and then the Enforcement of His Mark.
But The Son of Perdition's First Priority will be to have the Ark of the Covenant Set up for the whole world to see and The BLOOD OF CHRIST Removed. Blaspheming God while giving all of its Glory to Allah and Himself. This is...(THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION.)
The Book of Revelation is Key to understanding Daniel's Eschatology, and Vice Versa. For those of us who enjoy learning about Biblical Eschatology, we understand how One Word can Make or Break our Theory.
For instance, most of us have, and still do, look at the Word in this Passage """he""" pertaining to The Antichrist.
Well, Let's look at The Word """he""" Referenced to Jesus Christ......
......................................THIS IS THE BREAKDOWN OF DANIEL'S 70TH WEEK IN CHAPTER 9:27...................................
Daniel 9:27
...."And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week"...................
"""he""" Jesus Christ, will CONFIRM A COVENANT when He takes (The Scroll) from The Right Hand of God and with MANY involved.
This event leaves The World with ONE WEEK / SEVEN YEARS before His Second Coming and those Conditions are fulfilled.
And we will find it Explained PERFECTLY in Revelation 5..............
Revelation 5:5
"And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof."
Revelation 5:7-9
"And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof:"
This is THE CONFIRMATION to the COVENANT that has now been CONFIRMED WITH MANY. This is the Start of Daniel's 70th WEEK.
The Scroll of Seven Seals is a (PRELUDE) to The Trumpets and Bowls. It is why many read very similar........................"The things which thou hast seen."
.............THE NEXT VERSE FROM DANIEL THE PROPHET IN 9:27...........
Daniel 9:27....
....."and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate," .....
"""he""" Jesus Christ, will set forth and "CAUSE" The Start of The Great Tribulation, which is in THE MIDST OF THE WEEK.
He "CAUSES" this with now Giving Satan THE KEY to The Bottomless Pit in which we will see The Spirit of Antichrist Ascended from. Nothing Takes Place Without The Approval of God and.... "he."
..................................JESUS CHRIST HAS THE KEYS..............................
Revelation 1:18-19
"I am he that liveth, and was dead; and behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;"
.............................JESUS CHRIST GIVES SATAN THE KEY.........................
Revelation 9:1-2
"AND the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit; and he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit;"
......SATAN RELEASED THE SPIRIT OF ANTICHRIST FROM THE BOTTOMLESS PIT, NOW REIGNING IN THE BEAST.......
Revelation 11:7
"And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them."
It is "he" AND HIS BLOOD that is The "Daily Sacrifice." It is HIS BLOOD that has been "The Oblation" to God Almighty and us. It is HIS BLOOD that has been "The Overspreading" For World's Sins and Abominations and Providing Every One of us to be Forgiven and Redeemed.
......................................IT IS HIS BLOOD THAT IS....................................
........................................ (((THE RESTRAINER.))) ......................................
When HIS BLOOD is Removed from God's Mercy Seat, On that Day His Sacrifice and Oblation to God and Everyone who Dwells Will CEASE. Leaving The Mercy Seat DESOLATE and no Longer Overspreading the world with Atonement for Sins and Abominations. "FOR A TIME, AND TIMES, AND A HALF OF TIME."
This Midst of the Week will Start with The Trumpets, these are (THE EVENTS) ..................."The things which are,"
...........THE LAST VERSE FROM DANIEL THE PROPHET IN CHAPTER 9:27............
Daniel 9:27
"even until the consummation, and that determined, shall be poure upon the desolate."..........
The Seventh and Last Trumpet is THE CONSUMMATION (The Marriage Supper of the Lamb,) And with A New Covenant that SHALL BE POURE UPON THE DESOLATE Ark of the Covenant. As we will see BOTH of these events Taking Place with this Last Trumpet, and Last Bowl.
Then will "QUICKLY" be Followed by The Third and Final Woe, which will be A Devastating Polar Axis Shift to the World, also known as...... "THE DAY OF THE LORD."....
Revelation 11:15
"And the seventh angel sounded: and there were great voices in heaven, saying The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.".....
Revelation 11:19
"And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."
The Last Words from the mouth of Jesus Christ with His First Anointing of The Ark of the Covenant was.... "IT IS DONE".....We will see takes place again at the very end, with His New POURE UPON THE DESOLATE.......
Revelation 16:17
"And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done."
The Bowls are........(THE COMPLETION) ...."the things which shall be hereafter"............
May God Be with You All. Your Flight be not in winter. Led not into Temptation, but Delivered From The Evil One. Amen. 1:05
If you're a Believer you know Jesus quoted from Daniel. If you accept the interpretation presented here. Then God is a liar. And Christianity's a sham. God is not a liar and Jesus Christ died for the sins of all. John 3:16.
Cool story bro.
you call quoting someone else sayings as a refutation? you were afraid to even calculate the years. I feel sorry for you and the gullible atheists in the comments cheering for such a failure. Hope you turn to God instead of whatever you are doing here since you have a potential, but you are on the wrong side
feeling ok?? take a deep breath and repeat..
@@kristofftaylovoski60 Hi edgy AronRa follower, actually I've never felt this good since I came looking for this guy refutation of Daniel 9, as I was atonished by how accurate the prophesy was; unfortunelty, he didn't give anything of substance to challenge it, yet his atheist followers like you are cheering him up even when the content was by nowhere close to refute it.
Tudy Max Easy killer. There will be a later video on Daniel 9. But in the meantime, email Skylar at skylarfictionshow@gmail.com to set up a time to come on and make your case.
Dushan lol
@@DigitalHammurabi what do you think of the coincidence of Jesus death?
Get a new job God’s word cannot lie
Sounds like an airtight case.
How do you know that the Bible is God's word?
Yes, Daniel 9 was written "after the fact", probably in about 169 BC, when the Maccabean Revolt was taking place. The anti-hero is the wicked (in Jewish eyes) Greek king, Antiochus 4, who provoked the Jewish Maccabean revolt after he desecrated the Temple, and tried to abolish Judaism. Daniel 9 writes of this terrible time with hindsight. The book of Daniel does not rank in the Nevidi'im ("Prophetic) writings of the Tenakh, but in the "Ketuvim" (ordinary) section of the Tenakh. So it was not considered to be prophetic in a futuristic sense, but conceived as a writing to inspire Jewish martyrs to resist or hold out against the Greek invaders, for God's kingdom is about to arrive.
peter mcdermot
That interpretation seems to leave out the start date of the decree to rebuild.
It also leaves out the destruction of the city and temple which didn't happen until 70 AD. Antiochus didn't destroy the temple, so he doesn't fit the text. He figures into many of the chapters, but he doesn't fit the stated timing in 7 & 9. Vespasian & Titus fit those two chapters.
@@drewjohnson4811, it really depends on the translation of Daniel chapter 9 that you choose. The great majority of Christians can only read it translated into English (not in the original Hebrew, as for example, in the Dead Sea scrolls), yet that doesn't stop them from trying to perform exegesis on a translated text, whereas sound exegesis needs to be performed on texts in the original language. Christians tend to translate biblical Hebrew with a blinkered vision, presuming a priori that Jesus is prophesied. Fortunately, in recent years, accurate translations of Daniel 9 have appeared in some Christian Bibles; most notable is the "New American Bible Revised Edition" (NABRE), which you can view online (btw, another good translation is found in the New Revised Standard Version online) . These are much closer to Jewish versions. The KJV and NIV are virtually a waste of time; the translators can't take off their "Jesus glasses" even for a moment. Here's a link to the NABRE: www.biblegateway.com/versions/New-American-Bible-Revised-Edition-NABRE-Bible/#booklist
If you go to Daniel 9 and consult the NABRE glosses or notes below the text, you will see that the NABRE does NOT see Jesus prophesied anywhere in Daniel 9. The messiah ("anointed one") in Daniel 9:25 is messiah king Cyrus of Persia (king Cyrus is the only non-jewish messiah found in the Bible, and is called "messiah" in Isaiah 45:1). Although many Christians don't like to acknowledge this, Daniel 9 predicts a SECOND messiah ( a priestly messiah) in verse 26. The two messiahs ("anointed ones") are distinct. The NABRE makes this clear in its glosses and translation. In summary, there is no Christian consensus (let alone a Jewish one!) that Daniel 9 prophesies Jesus at all. Clearly, the timeline of the 70 weeks of years (=490 years) does not get us even close to the time of Jesus, and to make up for the shortfall, evangelicals claim that a year in Daniel 9 should be reckoned as 360 days, which is nonsensical! A year of 360 days would mess up the Jewish calendar, in which for example Passover MUST BE celebrated in the spring (even after just a 10-year period of 360 days in each year, Passover would shift to the winter!).
The decree to restore Jerusalem came from Cyrus the Great (in about 540 BC), and this is the royal messiah referred to in Daniel 9:25, as correctly identified by the NABRE scholars.
Finally, it is worth pointing out a "secret" that neither Christians nor orthodox Jew are likely to tell you: The word translated as "destroy" in Daniel 9:26 is better translated as "to desecrate", or "profane" or "defile" or "spoil", or "vandalize" or "violate", or "destroy the integrity of" (NB. English has a much larger vocabulary than biblical Hebrew, so one Hebrew verb can often be rendered by a variety of English words, which is taken advantage of by Christian translators). Although it CAN be translated as "destroy", it does not necessarily mean that literally. The Hebrew word used is "shachath" (sometimes written as "yash-hith"). If you refer to Strong's lexicon, you will find some of these meanings. Here's a link for that Hebrew word in Strong's: www.studylight.org/lexicons/hebrew/7843.html
In short, Daniel 9: 26 is probably NOT referring to the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD by Titus, but the DESECRATION of the Temple by the Greek king Antiochus the Great in about 169 BC, and this is also the position of the NABRE, as you can see from their glosses. The desecration of the Temple by Antiochus and the slaying of the high priest ("anointed one"), Onias, at the same time, provoked the Maccabean Revolt, a seminal event in Jewish history. MOST biblical scholars believe that Daniel 9 was written in about 168 or 169 BC. So, it was witnessing those historical events. The Book of Daniel is not ranked with the "prophetic" ("Nevidi'im") writings of the Tenakh, but in the "Ketuvim" ("ordinary writings") section. It was written to inspire Jews to resist the Greek invasion (which tried to destroy Judaism completely, substituting it for Greek ideology and rationalism) and to hold out to the end, for God's kingdom was very close at hand. Since Daniel was never placed in the "prophetic writings" ("Nevidi'im") of the Tenakh, it was probably never regarded by the ancient rabbis as futuristic prophecy. It was written to inspire martyrs. It does not claim to be written in any particular time.
Paul Sandberg
I admit we all have blind spots and biases. We have to be open to follow truth and not stop short based on what we feel like is a confirmation.
For example, in an effort to eliminate prophecy from the book, University scholars do something they wouldn't typically do with another book. They ignore the fact that the book itself (and the Book of Esther) treats the Medes and Persians as one kingdom. They say Babylon > Media > Persia > Greece. This is so far from the book itself that it's worrisome.
Even the link you shared concedes that Jesus pointed to this passage as a prophecy pointing to the coming temple destruction. People in that day saw it as pointing to Rome (inter-testamental writing, NT, 2 Edras, etc). Why do we now deny it?
A "prophetic year" really isn't required. I agree this is wrong.
The decree of Artaxeres I (Ezra 7:11) was in 457 BC. 483 years (69 x 7) later is 27 AD. This is the year Jesus started his ministry. This is evidenced by two passages. Luke 3:1-2 says it was the fifteenth year of Tiberius who started his reign as co-regeant in 12AD. John 2:20 says there had been 46 years of temple building activity. Herod started that work in 20 BC. Both of these point to 27 AD as the date.
I'm aware of at least five different interpretations:
Jewish - based on Cyrus but ending with Roman temple destruction (skips hundreds of years)
Greek leaning scholars - beginning with Cyrus but ending with Greece (no clear checkpoints uses "rough approximation" to describe the timings. Why would someone living at the time need to use rough approximations if he was contriving a "prophecy" to include a time he was well acquainted with.
Christian - 360 day with fulfilled 70th week - based on Artaxerxes' second decree. Assumes Friday crucifixion and tries to get there..
Christian - 360 day with future 70th week (probably not aware of Titus)
Christian - 365 day with future 70th week (also probably not aware of Titus)
Christian - 365 day with fulfilled 70th week (to me the most straightforward)
Again, taking the Greek view, there are no clear checkpoints of things that happened on the dates and more importantly no fulfillment of the stated purpose of the prophecy - end of sin, everlasting righteousness, reconciliation for iniquity, sealing up vision and prophecy, and anointing the most holy. Jesus accomplished those. There are no other events in the entire period of 490 years that even claims to do those things. That was the whole reason the text was laid out.
@@drewjohnson4811 , yes, in order to understand Daniel (and other scripture) it is important to lay aside personal biases. Let's briefly review Daniel's visions in Daniel chapter 2 and 7 (both visions convey the same historical content):
In chapter 2, Daniel interprets the dream of a massive statue, in the form of a man, which represents four empires. The statue’s head of gold represents Nebuchadnezzar’s Babylonian empire. The subsequent empires are less brilliant, and they represent successive kingdoms: Median (chest and arms of silver), Persian (belly of bronze), and finally Greek or hellenistic (legs of iron and feet of iron and clay. The mixed materials of the feet - iron and clay - represent Alexander’s divided kingdom (Ptolemy and Seleucid), with the iron legs representing the kingdom of Greece under Alexander. Finally, a stone, symbolising the people of God, cut from a mountain with no human aid, crushes the statue.These same empires are again symbolised in chapter 7 in another apocalyptic vision which Daniel experiences during the reign of Belshazzar (Babylonian ruler). So, the theme in chapter 7 is the same, although different symbolism is used. The lion represents Babylon, the bear represents the Medes, the leopard Persia, and the terrifying beast with the ten horns represents Greece (Seleucids). The ten horns correspond to the ten toes of the earlier vision of the huge statue.
The Roman empire is not foreseen anywhere in the book of Daniel, and I doubt you will find any historian who believes that the Roman empire fits the description historically.
Three of the ten horns of this final beast are uprooted by a small horn (the Greek king Antiochus 1V Epiphanes, who reigned from 175 to 164 BC). Antiochus, the Seleucid tyrant, is also referred to in Daniel 7:25, as the one who speaks against the Most High, oppresses His saints and tries to change the “set times and the laws” (as Antiochus did by ending the morning and evening sacrifices, as well as outlawing the rite of circumcision under pain of death.).
In chapter 9, we have the “seventy weeks of years” prophecy. Gabriel explains to Daniel that on the completion of the 70 weeks of years, justice will be restored and the temple (“holy of holies” in verse 24) will be re-consecrated (anointed); this consecration was achieved in 164 B.C. by Judas Maccabeus, which was a little over three years after its defilement with the abominable desolation caused by Antiochus.
To interpret Daniel chapter 9, we need to examine his timeline of 70 weeks of years (= 490 years), in particular the START DATE/YEAR for the count of the 490 years. The start date we have from Jeremiah in Jeremiah 29:10. The verse declares that after the Jews have been in exile in Babylon for seventy years, God will remember them and return them to Israel:
“This is what the LORD says: when seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will come to you and fulfill my gracious word (Hebrew: “davar”) to bring you back to this place.... I will bring you back from captivity.” This is referred to in Daniel 9:2, and the angel Gabriel explains to Daniel the inner meaning of the prophecy in Jeremiah, so that Daniel can understand it. The "davar" was given to Jeremiah in about 605 BC. In Daniel 9:1, Daniel is perplexed that there is still no hint of the prophesied return of the Jews, despite the destruction of Babylon by Cyrus the Great (whom Isaiah calls "messiah" ), which he has actually witnessed. So he wonders why the prophecy in Jeremiah chapter 29 hasn't materialised. NB. Ezra 1:1 also mentions the "davar" given to Jeremiah, showing its central importance: "In the first year of Cyrus king of Persia [538 BC], in order to fulfill the “davar” of the LORD spoken to Jeremiah...”
Cyrus the Great issued the decree to restore Jerusalem, and he is the messiah referred to in Daniel 9:25 (as the NABRE correctly identifies). Ancient Jewish sources also confirm this. The decree issued by Cyrus corresponds to the "seven weeks of years (=49 years) given in Daniel 9:25, starting from the countdown year of about 605 BC (when the "davar" came to Jeremiah). The typical evangelical ploy of combining the 7 seeks of years to the 62 weeks of years to get ONE period of 69 weeks makes no sense, for NOBODY, including the Jews, ever reckons 69 as "7+ 62". People count in terms of TENS. That would be as ridiculous as if the nursery rhyme ran "2 and 22 blackbirds baked in a pie" rather than the "4 and 20 blackbirds baked in a pie", which we all know. The 7 weeks is a distinct period, and the 62 weeks is a separate period. The Christian NABRE gets this right! The "62 weeks of years" (= 434 years) also starts from the same countdown year, i.e. 605 BC (so the 7 weeks and the separate 62 weeks overlap). If you do the simple maths, this period of 434 years (starting from about 605 BC) brings us to the Maccabean revolt (provoked by Antiochus Epiphanes) in about 171 BC. So I presume this is how the NABRE scholars make their calculation. Clearly, you can't get Jesus onto the scene in a period of 69 (or 70) weeks of years!
The evangelical notion that the issuing of the decree to rebuild the city prophesies Artaxerxes is extremely improbable, and I will give you just one reason for my criticism: Artaxerxes' decrees was in about 483 BC (as you say). But that is well outside the experience and lifetime of Daniel, so HE WOULD THEN NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO UNDERSTAND GABRIEL'S EXPLANATION. Remember, Gabriel was sent to Daniel expressly to explain Jeremiah's prophecy, so that he could understand it. Therefore Daniel needed a reference point to understand the weeks of years given to him, and that is king Cyrus (a contemporary) and the "davar" given to Jeremiah. Daniel does not question the angel further on this matter, because the explanation already makes sense to him.
You also run into a major obstacle by presuming that Jesus is prophesied, and that is the final (70th) week. If the 69 weeks of years gets you to about 27 AD (about the time of Jesus' ministry), then you still have a period of just seven years to get to the destruction of the Temple (70 AD) and the fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy. In order to shoehorn Jesus into the prophecy, you have to change the goal posts by altering the period of the final week. But where does Daniel imply or even hint at an unusual final week?! By whimsically altering the 70th week, you have made your interpretation untenable or irrational.
Note that my understanding of Daniel 9:26 is that the Temple is not literally "destroyed", but "desecrated" (or "profaned"). The Hebrew word used there is "yash-hith" (or "shachath"), which can equally be translated as "destroy" as "desecrate". Antiochus Epiphanes desecrated and vandalised the Temple in about 170 BC. That's what the verse refers to.
Paul Sandberg
In ch.8, Medo-Persia is one kingdom symbolized by a single beast with two uneven horns signifying an imbalance of power between the two. We see the same thing in ch. 7 with the bear raised higher on one side. Throughout the book we have only one law of the Medes and Persians. We see the same thing in the Book of Esther. Splitting them into two kingdoms doesn't fit the narrative.
*Roman Historical Perspective of Ch. 7*
*Ten kings would arise...then another*
There were exactly 11 people with ultimate power over the Roman Empire starting from the transition of Greece to Rome, generally taken to be the Battle of Corinth in 146 BC.
Sulla Felix - dictator for life (resigned)
Julius Caesar - dictator for life (killed)
Augustus
Tiberius
Caligula
Claudius
Nero
Galba
Otho
Vitellius
*Vespasian*
*...he would subdue three of the previous...*
Vespasian came to power in what historians call *The Year of Four Emperors* where Galba, Otho and Vitellius all briefly held power with their reigns ending in death until Vespasian took the throne in 69 AD.
*war...given into his hands for time, times and half a time***
Vespasian had been general in Judea through the first 3 1/2 years of the First Jewish Roman War. He presided as Emperor over the last 3 1/2 of the war.
*...prince of people to come would destroy the temple (ch. 9)...*
Titus, Vespasian's son and future Emperor, was made general in Judea with his father's departure. He is the "prince" who destroyed the temple.
Jesus pointed to himself as the "Son of Man" figure who people of all nations would worship. You can see that today. Nothing in the Greek Empire fulfills this text. The Roman Empire submitted to Christ under Constantine.
***the 40 year gap***
Technically, the text just says in the middle of the final week the anointed one would be cut off. Jesus was crucified 3 - 3 1/2 years after 27 AD. (fulling the requirement in ch.9 of Everlasting righteousness, etc.)
Jesus, being anointed "Most Holy", has taken the place of the temple as the object of belief and worship. The judgment of the temple destruction could have happened at the time of the crucifixion, but there was a reprieve. This is a part of what was meant by the "sign of Jonah". Not only was he in the fish three days and three nights, he also gave Nineveh 40 days to repent before their city was destroyed. The leaders of Israel in that day received 40 years to repent in this day-to-year prophecy.
Luke 11:29-30
29 As the crowds increased, Jesus said, “This is a wicked generation. It asks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.
30 For as Jonah was a sign to the Ninevites, so also will the Son of Man be to this generation.
2nd
First
You aren't a believer
And?
It's so bizarre how half the comments here are, "but if your interpretation is true, then Christianity couldn't be right, so you must be wrong!"
How does a person get to where they will not even CONSIDER their worldview might be wrong? Fucking absurd