StarCraft 2: HeroMarine's MASS BANSHEE vs Reynor! (Best-of-3)
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- Best-of-3 series of high level StarCraft 2 between Reynor (Zerg) and HeroMarine (Terran). In this series HeroMarine decides to test out the new mech Terarn changes, as he masses both Banshees as well as Cyclones.
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StarCraft 2 is a military science fiction real-time strategy video game developed and released by Blizzard Entertainment.
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YES! That's a mech comp I could watch for days!
Cyclone/Hellion/Banshee appears to be the terran muta/ling/bane, they run around the map containing your opponent and sniping bases while you expand all over the map, and even if they trade cost-ineffectively you end up with so much more income that you win.
More and more credence to the "In SC2, everyone actually plays different Zerg factions" idea.
Glad to see banshees back, alway loved that vehicle
16:32 16:32 h
Fast Banshees seem to be a really helpful main fight tool.
Yeah they're definitely not something a typical zerg comp is going to have an answer to
Like Z's weakness has always been a lack of mobile anti-air, with mutas and maybe speed hydras as the only two units that can keep pace, plus possible overlord speed for detection, means it's quite strong vs. zerg specifically. I don't think it's as strong vs. Toss or Terran though.
@@amiablereaper it can be strong in the midgame, the thing is toss are far more willing to make than zerg since their air is just better. Zerg air is terrible, despite being made up of 3 very strong units, and corruptors which do their job decently too. Mutas clump, broods get targeted, vipers are better against ground than enemy air (at this level, lower levels vipers counter air), all of them fail to synergize and they all require control to be used well, except corruptors which are distinctly standard, but not particularly strong.
The progression of a TvP is extremely volatile. Sometimes the protoss goes 'fuck you, carriers' sometimes it's collossi, sometimes it's gateway all game, all are viable. It's unpredictable, and with how specific banshee use-cases are that makes it horrible for them.
@@sensha5470 yeah and obviously it's unusable in tvt.
@@sensha5470 I think terran air is far worse than protos. At least they can snipe clossos. Medivics just outspeed them
I forgot to clarify this is if they stop making air and your now just wasting supply on a few corruptors
What an insane match! That last one in the series was so close to being lost by both Hero and Raynor, it could have depended on one bad micro, and the outcome could have been much different. Cool to see them adapt on the fly, and use the tools in the toolbox, to try and counter what was being thrown at them.
Banshee cyclone is so satisfying to watch, don't remember when i was this excited about watching sc2 content
I think its a good idea to skip the opening minutes unless there is a notable deviation from the standard. With that said, the one man podcast portion of the video is always entertaining and gives your personality a chance to shine through!
Yeah, I remember before LoTV how long those intros would be.
Disagree, the first few minutes are fantastic and give the video the needed flow. I’m here for the whole show, every time. I have the power to skip it if I wanted to anyways. Don’t want to :)
This!
@@pkayVIP agreed
I would say when the first fighting unit pops out is a good time.
I've practically been begging for Banshees in larger numbers. They were an absolute menace at one stage.
Seriously if i played sc2 I would do liberator on each enemy hatchery and banshees to kill anything that tries to stop em. and if they build mutas or something you build vikings
IKR! I always wondered why we never have banshee rush.
@@DaevorTheDevoted its a lot of resources to commit before a roach transition. Zerglings will run havoc if you try a Banshee rush.
@@snagsTS And that's why, if I were to SC2, they'd have to create a wood league for me 🤣
@@DaevorTheDevoted don't worry buddy, you and me both. In theory I know what works well, in practice I'm useless 🤣
Uthermal did a series with mass banshee (skyterran to grand master) before the changes to banshee's upgrade, and it was already very strong, to oneshot a queen you need more or less 8 banshees, happy to see this kind of strategy taken seriously, makes match more fun
Aww, I really like lowko's little intros in the first couple mins, it sets the tone and helps me since I can't always remember all the competitors and their histories.
For those wondering about the tweet drama.
Taken from Reddit:
The drama at the center has to do with limited casting opportunities and resentment between casters, organizers, and players involved with ESL. Rather than a repeat of arguments about Nydus/Swarm Host, this matches conflicts like Creighton Olsen accusing the "Old Boys Club" of not giving him an opportunity. Nathanias obviously isn't a fan of the new patch, but the "Zerg Cabal" claims come down to him arguing that his criticism of game balance and of other issues with the ESL Pro Tour have led to his casting opportunities being cut down.
There also seems to be a theory surrounding the new balance patch and map pool of a 'Zerg Cabal' that is pushing for these changes. It could be mainly in part that the testers for the balance patch were mostly pro zerg players. Not to mention that a patch dropping right before a major tournament that arguably benefits zerg a bit more just adds more fuel to the fire.
The Zerg "Cabal" is the most idiotic bs I ever heard and I play Protoss and Terran, still it is so stupid I can't believe people took that meme as a truth
I am ok if you wish to skip first few minutes, but I love it when you spend that time 'rambling' about other SC2 related stuff (pro scene, drama, trends, trivia, player history...) besides game that is being played.
Luv u Lowko!
So, skipping through the opening is cool *but* I really do like when you sometimes give us little nuggets of SC2 trivia or news during these times. As someone who doesn't follow the scene, I appreciate these little bits of insight.
Take a shot whenever lowko says "back of this"
@lowko Fast forwarding is just fine! I enjoy it when it is more than 1 game
Glad you asked about the fast forwarding, Lowko. I miss the small talks you provide during the boring start moments, you always find ways to make it interesting. But I'm still glad you are able to deliver them mid cast.
Best game I have seen in a while. That last one was for sure a banger
You know what banshees really need? A tech that you can research that allows them to pickup a massive amount of SCVs and Marines... and then.... JUST YEET THEM AT THE ENEMY AS ARTILLERY!
speeding up the first 2 minutes of the game is super cool! keep it up!
Hey Lowko! I love the early game one man podcast! I need more "Story Time With Lowko"!!! It's the best!! :D
So just to crunch the math on Banshees vs. Queens (as everyone already mentioned, uThermal already figured this out in Sky Terran to GM):
Queens have 150 HP and 1 armor. Banshees do 12 damage per rocket with 2 rockets per attack. So each Banshee attack is doing 22 damage to a Queen, assuming zero upgrades on either side. So it takes seven Banshees attacking at the same time (22 x 7 = 154) to kill a Queen in a single attack cycle. Bump that up to eight or nine Banshees to account for them getting shot down over time, and you have a Queen killing task force.
And then maybe if you really want to commit, you build Vikings as well to protect the Banshees. Overseers have 200 HP and 1 Armor. Viking air attacks deal 10+4 damage (bonus against Armored) per missile and 2 missiles per attack, which means 26 damage per attack against an Overseer (again, assuming zero upgrades on either side). So you need 8 Vikings to one-shot an Overseer (8 x 26 = 208), or 4 Vikings to two-shot.
Battle mech seems no longer to be a "battle meh..."! So happy about this change! A very cool terran playstyle!
Same also I am wondering with the new changes in the meta if terrans will start switching the add ons around to fuck with the oppenent. Like right before they scout you switch your factory so they think your going battle mech but your really going turtle mech and vice versa. Like sure your not gonna deal as much damage right away but if you suddenly show up with like 20 hellons and a bunch of cyclons and they been droning….
Or fake bc but go speed banshee by faking or making a fusion core
Or stuff along those lines. Cause before if you went bio its kinda hard to fake something else when you have like 12 barrecks. Same thing with mech cause battle mech wasn’t a thing
Interesting idea! I do hope that we'll see some variation from Terrans. Indeed factories and starports produce a lot of different units, that you can mix and match.
[28:03]
For a second I thought the techlab on the barracks was researching banshee cloak.
*And then my eyes adjusted*
and there was no techlab on the barracks afterall.
Man, it's just great to see Terran Mech dismantling Zerg... finally. It used to be basically a non-option because you couldn't keep up with the insane speed of the Zerg army, but now it looks like they zip around just fine.
I actually think that Hyperflight Rotors are the superior initial upgrade in the early game against Zerg, given how much easy access to detection Zerg has, just throwing down Spore Crawlers in the mineral lines. Better to have the additional speed to dodge Queens (or hunt them down once you have enough Banshees!) and hit priority targets like Drones and Roaches.
Oh wow, HeroMarine really pulled it off in the third one. The second game was sick.
Definitely dont mind the fast forward on these more standard openers. Thanks Lowko!
28:30 the hardest i have laughed at a Lowko joke... fr fr
Stellar casting, as always. Wonderful plays. I wanted to run something by the Starcraft 2 community without dipping my toes into Reddit (I haven't the courage.) What if the reaper was reworked to be a support unit for classic bio or battle mech?
If you lowered the speed of the reaper to match the speed of the marine and reimplemented the Nitro Packs upgrade to increase speed to that of a cyclone, you would have a more flexible reaper with worse early game potential. Lower the cooldown of the KD-8 charge and increase its range and it can be used to support an army, especially a high damage one like battle mech or classic bio. Remove the now hereditary combat drugs and lower the cost to 50/25ish. You now have a reaper which will stay with a slow or fast army and shield it from ground forces fairly efficiently. Slap on a flare gun to provide vision (but not detection) to a visible area (see UPL Wings of Liberty mod's CARR ability) for a time on a long cooldown, and you have a sort of spellcaster. As a cherry on top, you might increase the command card priority to appear above battle mech units.
The reaper plundered my heart in the campaign, and I became physically angry when I tried it out against bots in my first time playing modern ladder style. Seeing something so awesome as a jetpack raider with grenades be relegated to scouting duty hurt my soul. Maybe Blizzard could change that.
Thanks Lowko for a great Cast, and thanks to Heromarine and Reynor for a "banger of a game".
Yes, all was great and very nice to watch.
I don't like Zerg and I never loved a lot Reynor, but I think something was missing this time. As if Reynor was bored or watching Netflix while playing.
He seemed quite passive. Or maybe I'm wrong and Reaper + hellions + cyclones + banshee never let him to harass.
Yes I love that you fast forward if nothing happens at the start!
Edit: Mentioning that you fast forward does help with the confusion as well! Thanks Lowko!
Saturdaymorning, having breakfast... and it all starts with great games of StarCraft 2.
You guys are watching SC2 games? I'm just here for the Solo Lowko Podcast
Swann: those Banshees tear the snot out of ground units, got cloaking too, gotta love that
--opening of mission Supernova, Wings of Liberty.
Lowko: Banshees are killing everything!
looks like Lowko has to revisit WoL, lol.
I really loved the battle-mech style!
I have to say that it is because you are always explaining things that i quite like watch games of SC2, and i think for newer player it could be quite disturbing to miss the begining... but in an other way i agree with you that it is not the best part of this games...
Maybe if you keep the beginning of some game (1 in 4 / 1 in 5) that will allow the new players to familiarise while not bothering the older player too much ?
I'm all for fast-fowarding the start of matches. Good choice.
You are the one we're trusting to commentate the match. That is why we watch your videos. The fast forward cuts out the fat, if we're going to watch nearly identical openers, we don't need you to re-commentate on what you did last game if the players aren't doing anything different. You do a wonderful job.
Looks like battle mech is back on the menu, boys!
I don't play starcraft, but I think it's totally fine to fastforward the first few minutes. You summarize the important stuff well.
i think the skip ahead is ok for the start up and still leaves time for your player analysis!! you do great lowko! you should do those videos again too
Dont mind the fast forward - as long as nothing interesting happens in the first few min
damn this was really fun to watch! also i suggest you that cast normally on first match then skip to reaper part after first game.
Our man HeroMarine is playing the mass Banshee/Cyclone bronze-to-literal-Reynor challenge over here
I was looking forward for this game since you hyped it up so much the other day. IT WAS SO MUCH BETTER THAN I EXPECTED. I hope banshees get used a lot more now.
The moment he changed from banshees to tanks he lost his mobility also he should have made more cyclones to counter the corruptors. The speed and mobility outpaced the zerg! Wonderful game to watch.
Unfortunately the cyclone change doesn't seem to work rn. HM checked it on the recent stream and it still deals 20dmg with upgrade
I like the early game podcast because you're so entertaining. Lean into it. Make the early game podcast a phenomenon.
One moment criticizing Reynor's Overlord placement and the next a Viking flies right over where you said he shoulda put it lmao
16:28 Black in the day?! is that Lowko using Dark Humor?!
If they aren't doing anything weird, I don't see a reason to sit through the first 2-2:30 minutes since it will virtually always be the same
Awesome games.
I like it when you skip the beginning when nothing happened.
Also, Lowko, Real Scale Legacy of the Void is done and is amazing!
long-time watcher, first time commentator - yes, keep curating the content and jumping ahead so that us old-heads can jump to the action
congrats on your promotion from watcher to commentator
@@ZerglingLover thank you. I hope my bravery inspires others to follow in my courageous stead
But you give a good account of your time spent outside of casting during the standard openers.. Which a lot of us enjoy listening too I think :)
Those were some awesome games, lots of different unit compositions from the terran. Corruptors to counter the banshees, then morphing into brood lords for the cyclones was pretty cool. Seems like it was a mistake to turn ALL of the corruptors into brood lords, but I wonder if hydras would have been better than ravagers.
they really should have made Hyperflight Rotors as fast as Cloacking; 80 seconds is reasonable, cause it takes 4.30 minutes to build the right amount of Banshees anyway, and if you do you're still vulnerable to the enemy army showing up on your base, same if you build mass Muta for example
I like the fast forwarding, it's usually always the same, and in those cases makes sense
Hey, lowko. I started watching SC 2 vids a few months ago. Out of the few on yt. You da best bra. Awesome job.
For skipping a few mins ahead, at the beginning, yes, but rly don't mind if you do or not.
Watching how the players choose to run the opening on the first match of a series is always interesting, and then if there's something unusual or experimental being tried in the opening it's good to see, but in order to watch the whole series time effectively it's usually pretty good to skip the opening I think.
I like the fast fowarding
Now i wonder what if banshees have shock wave missile battery in multiplayer.
There would be a lot of zerg criying...... they cry until snipping was nerffed
Love how Gabe uses the banshees as a kind of combat-harass, poking at the sides of engagements and generally being a pain in the ass. Would love to see the meta evolve to include rotors on a regular basis.
I think what screwed Reynor in that last game super hard is the lack of upgrades. I'm just imagining what those fights would have looked like with 2/2 or even 3/3. He certainly had the time and resources to get up there, but it's almost like he forgot about it.
skip them for the most part (unless something interesting) but throw it in every once in a while, we enjoy the podcasts
I think if it’s the first game of a best of or a single game leave the opening minutes, I like the one man podcast it lets your personality shine a bit and it gives me a chance to “settle in” and get into that SC2 mindset.
But if it’s game 2 or more of a best of and the opening is super standard go ahead and time skip. We all know how that goes and we’re here for the action now. Love your videos, you’re doing great Lowko!
It’s 2024 and Lowko now edits the intro by introducing the players, then doing a pause-editing play by play covering the first few minutes of each game in 30 seconds.
6 am Alaska time, nothing like lowko sc2 and coffee!
That blue flame was bussin, fr fr
Thanks for the great video as usual !
I've been experimenting a lot with my builds lately, I find it's hard to counter terran without lurkers. Lurkers are crucial so you don't waste a ton of money on massing other units who just die so easily. And then with good micro'ing, fungal is pretty damn awesome. Especially consecutive casts. 10-20s seconds in a battle can change the entire game and swing.
11:23 "If I'm still not talking about the game by the 8th min mark, I better have a really good story going on..." YT > before the story starts, I need you to watch this add!!! It's better going to be a good story ma boy! 🤨🤨🤨😂
I used to play mass banshees in the ladder against zerg, usually with good results (as a matter of fact, I sent you a replay once with a comeback I did, I had the match lost, and then I massed banshee and destroyed the 6 hatcheries of my opponent in like, 3 minutes, and won)
I fast forward the first few minutes so happy for you to!
Worth fast forwarding for standard openings for any match up on games 2 to whatever. Don't on the first game, or the second if the first is not a standard opening.
Man that was awesome!!!
game 2+3 were SIK AF love the battle-mech
My favourite Terran (and overall) campaign unit en masse in 1v1? Instant click and upvote!
My fav too. Maybe i watch uthermal too much
goliaths and vikings are subjectively the coolest terran units
Fast forwarding is welcomed. I would do it on my on, but you save me some time.
Very nice, what a game, thank you.
Cyclone banshee very effective, even a Zerg of Reynor's ability not yet finding a counter. Nice to see more unit variety in the matchup.
Honestly I think the early game has some issues if you want to skip it. I liked the 6->12 worker change because of how much less tedious the games got. Maybe it's time for the almighty -zerg cabal- balance council to look at increasing the speed of the first combat units that come out. Perhaps spawn lings with the pool? Barracks spawns two marines? Gateways warp in a zealot?
I'm fine with the time skip though.
whoa, some pretty awesome games!
Terran mec is awesome, im gonna play that until next balance patch is out :))
I may be the rare vote here but I love games from the beginning. Hell, I'd love to go back to 3 drone starts even! (I know lol)
Damn one of the best TvZ built I have seen in a while.
No sure if it will get popular but I hope so it’s a banger to watch.
Thanks for the great content as always 😊
Lowko and Hyperflight Rotors need to get a room.
About the fast forwarding through the intros. I get that the majority of people watching actually play tons of starcraft and know the beginnings really well, but I literally have never played Starcraft and I watch your videos everyday! I’ve honestly learnt how to play just from watching your videos, so I love when the intros are not fast forwarded, but I understand that most people would probably want it fast forwarded. Maybe just don’t do it every video! Love from Canada :)
Give me Banshees! Only the biggest brain could figure out so quickly that a hitsquad of antiqueen banshees will cripple the zerg war machine.
Especially back before the number of staring workers was increased , there were almost five minutes where the caster had to talk about Battle Toads or something. Skipping the first couple minutes is fine.
@Lowko, skipping the first few mins of a game is really appreciated!
i recently started skipping them myself.
I wouldn't expect you to change your video starts but just figure I should potentially be an interesting statistic.
I'm brand new to starcraft 2 started playing a few months ago and the "algorithm" has blessed me with your channel.
I played starcraft 64 (I'm old) like for a week and then never again until recently. 😂😂
I can go found countless other videos to look at different faction starting mins though.
Currently working my way through the campaign and soon will attempt MP and promptly get destroyed.
Thanks for the content though
That was an amazing match
not the gumiho roast 💀
lowko we love your podcasts
Come for the StarCraft, stay for the one-man podcast
For the fast forwarding, coming from a guy who has watched thousands of matches, I feel like a game-one full (or minimal clipping) with player intros feels better. After that taking more out of the early game is fine. But the second game when we jump into the reaper already in the zerg base was a little confusing. I'd start games 2+ just before early units pop out or just before proxy cheeses get set in motion, so the viewer can watch early aggression get set up. Just my two cents.
No aggression here 10:15
Mad Mex! I love it!
Watching HeroMarine not uncloak banshees when they aren't doing anything and just wasting energy is pain
Game 2 was pretty much a uThermal "banshee/cyclone to grandmaster" game 👍
Also, no issue with skipping the first minutes of any game if it's standard/boring.
This video is going to be good.
Terrans should make more Vikings against brood lords, Thors and Ghost struggle if there are too many but i guess parastic bomb kinda rough